{"id":153779,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153779","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e2b115479aa313313463a4d3464892865b03adaedb4d9a025efacd5f77c04e03735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"16:15:57 - 16:46:51","影片長度":"00:30:54","會議時間":"2024-06-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。 \n二、6月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月11日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-07","start_time":"2024-06-07T16:15:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-07T16:46:51+08:00","duration":1854,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議","id":"院會-11-1-17","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1426,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（16時16分）有請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：院長好，您辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，應該的。"],["翁委員曉玲：經過今天一整天的總質詢，我原本對於您有高度的期待，可是當我看到昨天行政院提出覆議案之後，我心裡面其實蠻難過的，我似乎不該對您有太多的期待。"],["卓院長榮泰：希望委員對憲法有期待就好。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我對於憲法有期待，我對於這次國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院，然後行政院昨天就提出了覆議案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅崐萁總召時，您說您對於這個法案一無所知、並不瞭解，可是沒想到您早就準備好要提出這個覆議案了嗎？而且下定決心就是要提覆議了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我沒有說我一無所知，我說我要接到大院來文之後，因為兩院之間是有正式往來的形式，才能夠一一去比對……"],["翁委員曉玲：從您當時的回答會讓我覺得您好像對於這個法案一無所知，您才剛上任就提覆議，您不擔心這項覆議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員是一個法學的專家。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權力跟責任去做的任何行為，都不要被解釋為是惡意，否則憲法就不會這樣設計了。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，當然就要看你們的憲法理由了，對不對？要看看你們提出來的覆議理由。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：我想院長很清楚知道行政院在五權分立憲政體制底下的角色與功能，行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色？"],["卓院長榮泰：是行政機關，全國最高的行政機關。"],["翁委員曉玲：行政機關是依法行政吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，依法行政。"],["翁委員曉玲：這次行政院依據憲法增修條文提出的覆議，可是憲法增修條文提起覆議的前提要件是法律案窒礙難行，這就讓本席感到很奇怪了，我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。"],["翁委員曉玲：不是，可是我們再看看行政院的覆議理由更讓我感到錯愕，行政院似乎無限膨脹、擴權，企圖對立法院、總統府、監察院的職權進行解釋、指指點點，本席認為，這才是真正的毀憲亂政啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我無法認同這樣的講法。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想請教一下，立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員行使職權的權利義務以及程序，請問這跟行政院有什麼關係？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，因為行使的過程當中，不僅是部長、官員、人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權利義務關係，只要跟任何一個國人相關的，行政院都有責任義務來保護他。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我們待會就來講，到底有什麼樣的關係會讓你們感到窒礙難行。","行政院是立法院的上級機關，你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院不是立法院的上級機關。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，所以在你們昨天記者會上指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵，我實在是不懂，現在行政院是怎麼樣，你們已經變成是大法官了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不是指指點點，我是依據事實提出我們的看法。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我要再說，行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。"],["翁委員曉玲：不是，你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["翁委員曉玲：不會，你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權力嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們捍衛的是院際分立，這是憲法的一部分。"],["翁委員曉玲：既然如此，你們為什麼還要再講什麼法律案，又混淆雙首長制？邀請總統來進行國情報告不合理？你們的說法真讓我感到非常的困惑，再說……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們是針對整部法律提出覆議，不是單對哪一個特別的條文……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，你們針對整部法律提出覆議才叫做奇怪。","這次刑法增訂官員說謊罪，立法院職權行使法增修處罰官員亂回答、反質詢、無故缺席、拒絕答復、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答復以及其他藐視國會的行為，這樣的規定會讓行政院感到窒礙難行嗎？難道行政院沒有辦法約束行政官員們，你們做不到不說謊、不缺席、不提供資料、不隱匿資訊嗎？這些事情你們做不到嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我曾經說過：說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺。但是在委員剛才所提到的條文當中，充滿很多法律不確定性跟比例原則。"],["翁委員曉玲：是嗎？所以在你們現在的行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定，公平交易法裡面也有類似這樣的規定，這些都違憲是不是？我們來檢視一下，請行政院回去要求法規會檢視一下，現在我們所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定處罰拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答復等等這些行為，你們這樣的說法其實真的讓我很……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，如果有類似的行為，是透過檢察官的起訴，但是大院並不是司法檢察官。"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在講的是行政機關的處罰，請您回去看一看有多少條文裡面是有這樣的規定，這邊我不再跟您爭執，因為這是事實的問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：這不用爭執，這是事實。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，行政院提出這樣的覆議事由，本席以為這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話，而根本就是強詞奪理，那麼……"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不是。"],["翁委員曉玲：行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗，你們既不是這部法律的執行者，頂多就是受規範的關係人，到底有什麼好窒礙難行？本席看到你們昨天所提出來的覆議事由，我真的感到荒謬至極。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，只要任何一個人民跟這部法律有關，行政院都有義務來為人民的權利提出我們的主張，這就是保護所有人民。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來，我想要請教院長，如果這項覆議案不通過，您會自行請辭嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：早上我已經說過了，依照增修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定，並沒有辭職這個選項。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你會接受這個決議，是吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照憲法只有接受……"],["翁委員曉玲：您會依據這個法律的規定接受規範吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：接受之後，我們是不是還有其他的救濟行為，這個值得商榷。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是抵抗權，這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權力，不是抵抗權。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，很好，我希望您不要重蹈覆轍，當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗權，真的讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙，他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們該抵抗的是……"],["翁委員曉玲：基本上就是接受決議，該怎麼做就怎麼做，就像我講的，立法院職權行使法最主要就是規範我們立法院立法委員的行為以及職權行使，你們只是被規範。如果有我剛剛講的那些虛偽陳述、不提供資料、無故缺席的行為，才有可能受到處罰，而且還有救濟途徑，請記得，還有救濟途徑。我現在想要講的就是，請問院長，您才剛上來就已經提了一個覆議案，未來你還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案，但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案，繼續提出覆議案嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持，而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論，以及被社會共識所接受。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以這個正當程序是由你們來認定的嗎？你們要指指點點立法院的立法程序夠不夠嚴謹，是嗎？前兩天才剛通過原住民保留地的禁伐補償條例，你們還會對這個案子提起覆議嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要討論實質的內容嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：我現在是說你們有這樣的打算嗎？還是還沒有開始討論？"],["卓院長榮泰：還沒有看到大院的來文。"],["翁委員曉玲：簡單來說，本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起覆議的話，請審慎思考你們覆議的理由，是不是已經可能會侵犯到立法權，而且這個理由是不是足夠堅強，看樣子反正以後覆議案就算不通過，您也不會辭職，你也不會下臺，是不是會接受決議、依法行政，還有待觀察，但是我必須說，如果日後行政院所提的覆議案是屢戰屢敗，您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢做不敢當的惡名……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以大院有憲法增修條文第三條第二項第三款的權利。"],["翁委員曉玲：我相信民眾會把你定義成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。","接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題，關於核電的議題，最近其實大家有很多的討論，據媒體報導，大陸最近5月23日、24日正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習，那時候就有立委跟媒體爆料，沒有任何一艘天然氣船在臺灣停靠卸貨，後來中油有發布新聞，表示還是有兩艘天然氣船是有依計畫順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了，臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主，會帶來什麼樣的危機？事實上，已經有很多國內外專家學者、智庫都預測，未來大陸極有可能對臺灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖，也就是他們不採取武力的手段來癱瘓臺灣，這種作法看起來也會持續下去並且成為常態，所以無論是從國家安全、經濟發展的角度，臺灣的能源政策是不是應該要朝向能源多元，而且自主的方向規劃，請問院長您是否同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：很謝謝委員跟我一樣，我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題，所以對於中國片面發動這樣的軍演，我們表示非常的不滿意，所以我們應該站在同一個立場。","再來，我們當然要強化自己的國防力量，包括我們的能源政策，關於我們的能源政策，我們在做很多的多元綠能，而且也逐步的追趕上來，這個都是我們在強化自己內部能源能力的地方。"],["翁委員曉玲：院長，你可能又把我的題目又扯遠了，我只是在問，是不是認同我們要發展多元能源……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯。"],["翁委員曉玲：而且自主能源這樣的一個方向，我想請教郭部長，能源自主，最好的能源選項是什麼？是煤嗎？是天然氣嗎？還是核電？"],["郭部長智輝：未來業者所要用的就是綠能，所以我們最好的選項就是綠能。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以綠能你認為它是最好的能源自主的一個選項？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：綠能的發電效率，以及現在行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面，它只占了兩成，也就是說，假設一個狀況，中國持續軍演，然後也是週休二日，五天在我們旁邊軍演、兩天休息，它只要維持了42天以上，可能我們臺灣就會面臨很大的能源缺口，我們可能就會斷電了，其他民生、工業等各方面，都會受到很大的影響。本席在這邊還是要強調，不僅是從國家安全的角度、從經濟發展的角度，民意其實也是高度支持，我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。","2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚的顯示，全臺灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電的；有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的；最近還有一間全球知名的英國民調機構，它對臺灣民眾也進行了「清潔能源公眾態度」的民調，結果顯示有高達83%的臺灣民眾是支持核能的；甚至有4成的民眾認為在能源轉型議題上面，我們更應該要專注核能的發展，不僅民調機構對臺灣做的調查，其實國外也有很多國家的核電廠都在延役，如英國、美國、法國、日本等等。也有一些國家已經開始推動SMR，就是小型核反應器，允許民間企業自主設置。在全世界核電時代的趨勢下，在看到我們臺灣高度民意支持的情況下，請問行政院難道還要繼續排斥運用核電嗎？請問郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在是這樣子，現在有一個法，所以我們必須瞭解經濟部要依法行事，我們現在……"],["翁委員曉玲：請問哪個法？"],["郭部長智輝：現在的法就是規定核能……"],["翁委員曉玲：核子設施管制法，您的意思是這個嗎？就是裡面的法規要不要延長，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果法規延長的話，您會同意繼續讓核電廠延役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們要看目前的核電廠是不是符合延役的條件。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我要講的是，包含本席在內的幾位委員其實已經提案修電業法以及核子設施管制法。在我們所提的法案裡不僅將允許核一、核二、核三廠可以繼續延役，當然是在安全無虞、技術可行的情況之下可以繼續延役。本席的法案還提到，未來將修電業法允許民間自主設置小型的核反應設施。如果這些法案通過了，經濟部會不會同意台電申請延役？會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的核子反應爐？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，容許我跟委員報告一件事。剛剛委員有提到一些民調的數字，我不敢否定民調的結果，但如果我們把核能安全放下去做民調，把核廢料的處理放下去做民調，核廢料要放在哪裡，我相信數字會改變的，所以我們必須要正視這個問題。所以未來……"],["翁委員曉玲：請問院長，您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎？您瞭解現在核能科技的發展嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道小型核電跟核融合，但是有一句話……"],["翁委員曉玲：有關核能安全、核廢料的處理，您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎？為什麼全世界這麼多國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題……"],["卓院長榮泰：瞭解，但是……"],["翁委員曉玲：只有民進黨政府最擔心核廢料的問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，有一句話……"],["翁委員曉玲：我真的覺得民進黨政府你們的政治素養很高，但是科學素養低落！"],["卓院長榮泰：我有一句話希望委員能夠同意，就是未來核能的發展……"],["翁委員曉玲：郭部長在進來經濟部擔任部長之前……"],["卓院長榮泰：未來核能的發展，應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題。但未來的問題，未來再去解決，未來核能發展現在看來還是有相當長遠的時間。"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝院長的回復。希望您能尊重我的質詢權，因為我的時間很寶貴。郭部長在進來經濟部當部長之前，在業界這麼長一段時間，大概非常知道整個企業界的需求，也能夠瞭解整個核能科技發展的日新月異。其他國家包含日本，是全世界地震最多的國家，為什麼他們不但不放棄用核電，而且還持續的擴增核電廠？我覺得這些都是非常、非常值得我們思考的。我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該多讀一讀，或多去請一些科技專家來教一下你們的科技知識。簡單來說，我們幾個委員都已經幫行政院鋪好法律之路，未來法律通過，我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意！我請問部長，之後您會同意台電申請延役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們會看未來的環境是怎麼樣子，如果我們確定安全無慮，核廢料可以處理，民眾、大家可以接受的情況之下，我們會持續來進行。"],["翁委員曉玲：核安會主委在嗎？如果不在的話，沒關係。我希望核安會也要開始啟動，相關的法規是在核安會，不是只修正核電廠延役的相關法規就算了，包含核能相關安全的法規要如何提升，如何去對已經除役的電廠重新去檢視它是否夠安全，這個部分核安會應該要啟動了。","最後，在這議題上本席要提醒卓院長和郭部長，你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康，以及生態環境，會造成不可恢復的損害，未來只要發生任何全國大停電或者重大事故，本席一定會強烈對你們課責。","接下來還有另外一個議題，我們來談談司法正義吧。院長，其實您是我的學長。"],["卓院長榮泰：不敢當、不敢當。"],["翁委員曉玲：您是法律人出身，我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性，我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是很遺憾的，在我這次閱讀您所提出的行政院施政報告裡面，或者是聆聽您口頭報告，我並沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字，隻字未提，您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎？做不到法律之前人人平等、做不到公平正義嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員一樣，這個應該是我們共同的信仰，如果我在這本裡面沒有提，我一定找個時間好好重提一次。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，當然從施政報告裡面也可以看得出來您對議題是不是夠關心啦。當我們在談到司法正義的時候，一般老百姓的直觀經驗就是有執法權力的司法人員是不是會公平對待每一個人，而不是欺善怕惡，遇到權貴就轉彎，否則民眾不會再相信司法，也不會相信司法能夠主持正義、維持社會秩序，還有捍衛人民的權益。可是很遺憾的是，就算是司法院、法務部做再多的司法改革，司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然，因為如果沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話，會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫、打假球而已，是無法取信於人民，也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴。","所謂一顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥，目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎，但眾所周知，最大的老鼠屎案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的，大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子，一般民眾其實根本不瞭解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳、生龍活虎參加各種活動，而且享受充分高度自由、富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中服刑。到目前為止，法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遙法外。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員說明，臺中監獄參酌高雄長庚醫院的醫囑，希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動，在可控的範圍內……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝，謝謝院長，這些我都瞭解，因為之前我都有去調過相關的，透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長。法務部其實就像是剛剛院長所講的，說了一大堆不是理由的理由，你們敢公布陳水扁的醫療成員、就醫報告、訪視報告嗎？你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為，坦白說這就是司法最大的污點，這種……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望陳前總統能夠得到最好的健康照顧。"],["翁委員曉玲：遇到阿扁就轉彎的司法正義，已經成為全世界最大的笑話！人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得，你沒有把陳水扁當成是一個受刑人看待，你把他當成前總統，所以你們才會說出要依照他的診療報告，還要考慮到他的身心平衡，他要出遊、訪視、去餐廳吃飯……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是遵照醫囑。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，這是醫囑，很好！請問院長，如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷，不如以後把保外就醫的權力就交給民間醫院去執行，不是更好嗎？你們也不用監督查核，花這麼多人力還要去做訪視，矯正署也可以不用負責任啊！未來受刑人很容易啊，他只要買通了醫院，然後寫一個假的報告，就可以逍遙法外，永遠都不用回去坐牢，這樣的做法是對的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們相信專業醫生的醫囑，而不是隨便買一個報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以你們都不會相信專業醫生可能也在做假嗎？他是真的專業嗎？這麼多年……"],["卓院長榮泰：這個前提不能這樣設下來的。"],["翁委員曉玲：這麼多年來他延長了38次、長達9年的保外就醫，有哪一個保外就醫的受刑人是像陳水扁有這樣的處遇？我必須說，從剛剛跟院長的對話我就很肯定，我覺得你會繼續包容、縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面逍遙法外。"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是個人包不包容或縱容的問題，這是遵照醫囑做的行為，但是法務部還要做到很多安全的管控。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，所以如果是醫囑，他是做假，所以你們有去查核……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個跟委員報告，其實我們都會去訪視、去查核。"],["翁委員曉玲：你們可以公開那個報告書嗎？可以讓國人一起來檢驗、檢視嗎？總之，陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心、有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性案件。司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了，接下來就看賴政府的表現……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有這樣的狀況啦，委員！"],["翁委員曉玲：希望不要讓人民失望，我希望司法正義能夠重新起死回生……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們可以多溝通，把你的疑慮告訴我們，我們可以多溝通，絕對沒有這樣的現象。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我要談的是兩岸議題，我想這段期間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的問題，兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府所要面對的一個非常重要的政策，它不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關，跟經濟各方面也都息息相關。院長在之前的記者會上也有說，兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張，兩岸關係應該要互相堆疊善意，而且要對等，可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去，這樣的態度……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經恢復了。"],["翁委員曉玲：讓我也很懷疑你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經恢復了團客前往大陸。"],["翁委員曉玲：喔，恢復團客了？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：已經確定了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：舊團，原來的團可以繼續……"],["翁委員曉玲：呿！舊團，我現在是說新的，是全面開放！"],["卓院長榮泰：但是……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，請問行政院接下來會提出哪些善意的方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：提醒委員，這兩天有一個案件，我們的旅遊團在大陸人身自由受到傷害，今天的事件委員也應該有注意到。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我現在要講一下，你們說要釋出善意，你們到底有提出哪些善意方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們對於團客，恢復舊有的團出去……"],["翁委員曉玲：除了觀光之外，其他的部分呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們對於教育部也有學位生，我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相交流。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，但是坦白說，以我們現在看到的，到底現在臺灣對大陸有釋出哪些善意，你們開放臺灣旅行業者到大陸組團，這都還是過去式，都還沒有對未來開放；你們對於平潭到臺灣的海上客貨運有開放嗎？有復航了嗎？應該是還沒有吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，截至目前為止，中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何的，比如說它的踩線團到臺灣，都沒有……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們是開放的，是嗎？你們是開放的，只是他們沒有申請，一旦他們申請，你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果定期航班還不行的話，我們看看他們是不是有實際申請包船，我們會來考慮。"],["翁委員曉玲：什麼叫做你們要來考慮？這就是釋出善意啊！如果今天你說：對，他們只要敢提出申請，我們就會同意，這樣才叫做釋出善意！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們歡迎中國大陸的踩線團到我們這邊來。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我們再看，我們到目前為止對於大陸進口的項目有二千多種是限制的，限制他們不能夠進口到臺灣來，相對於大陸他們那邊是滿歡迎的，沒有對我們的商品有太多的限制，這樣是一個對等嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！他們現在也違反WTO的精神，限制了一百……"],["翁委員曉玲：是啊，他們才限制的，他們才不讓利了一百多項，我們就已經在那邊說他們對我們沒有善意……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們是禁止人家二千五百多項的商品進入，必須說……"],["卓院長榮泰：我願意堆疊善意，但是……"],["翁委員曉玲：堆疊善意，我就說你們的善意不夠！"],["卓院長榮泰：我很不願意看到他們無故的軍演、艦機繞臺，還有在WHA上面對我們的阻撓，這個……"],["翁委員曉玲：在指責別人之前也要回頭看看自己的作為！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是互相要堆疊的。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，還有對陸生的歧視，這是本席感到最遺憾的地方，我從大學來，我看到兩岸的交流，其實青年學子的交流對於促進兩岸的相互理解及和平有非常大的助益，可是看看我們現在臺灣政府是怎麼樣對待陸生的？"],["卓院長榮泰：最近也納入健保，之前還有很多措施，請陸委會跟你報告。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，我們有10項便利措施……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，可是坦白說還不夠。我知道，你們確實是有些進步了，但是坦白說還不夠，我們可以做到讓大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎？讓他們也可以領獎學金，讓他們也可以攻讀嗎？請問可以做得到嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，我們現在地方政府或是外界的獎學金……"],["翁委員曉玲：為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢？為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠在我翁曉玲教授的研究計畫中當研究計畫的助理？他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理，不能領研究計畫的費用？"],["邱主任委員垂正：研究的助理是可以，但是目前國科會的研究計畫還有限制……"],["翁委員曉玲：總之，這方面還有非常多的限制，包含兩岸的學術交流，教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格，我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙，去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們也做了很多權益的保障……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們對於臺灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎？這麼怕被他們統戰……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，您應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障，這些保障都不應該被忽視。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，是，院長，因為您才剛上任還不到一個月，所以我能夠體諒您已經釋出了比過去的院長更多的善意，但是我很希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也希望得到很多的善意。"],["翁委員曉玲：你能夠加把勁，釋出更多的善意……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也希望得到很多的善意。"],["翁委員曉玲：兩岸的善意就是你來我往，以禮相待，你不先遞出橄欖枝，怎麼會期待對方可以釋出更多的善意。兩岸關係要靠智慧而不是耍嘴皮子，賴總統這一句「中華民國與中華人民共和國互不相隸屬」的談話，就把兩岸關係打到谷底……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是現狀。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以我希望你們能夠聰明執政，而不是衝突執政，以上。謝謝！"],["卓院長榮泰：這就是臺灣的現狀。"],["主席：謝謝翁委員，也謝謝卓院長。下一位請洪委員申翰質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-17","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 106.175, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 106.175, \"end\": 106.535, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.535, \"end\": 106.675, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 106.675, \"end\": 106.815, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 106.815, \"end\": 106.955, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 106.955, \"end\": 107.135, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"座\", \"start\": 107.135, \"end\": 107.295, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 107.295, \"end\": 107.315, \"score\": 0.044}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 108.069, \"end\": 136.532, \"text\": \"委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 108.069, \"end\": 108.449, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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\"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 856.455, \"end\": 856.835, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 856.835, \"end\": 857.015, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 857.015, \"end\": 857.475, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 857.475, \"end\": 858.436, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 858.436, \"end\": 858.876, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 858.876, \"end\": 858.976, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 858.976, \"end\": 859.156, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 859.156, \"end\": 859.496, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 859.496, \"end\": 859.796, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 859.796, \"end\": 860.156, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 860.156, \"end\": 860.716, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 860.716, \"end\": 861.736, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 861.736, \"end\": 862.017, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 862.017, \"end\": 862.657, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 862.657, \"end\": 863.217, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 863.217, \"end\": 863.377, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 863.377, \"end\": 863.397, \"score\": 0.933}]}, {\"start\": 863.997, \"end\": 864.577, \"text\": \"請問郭部長有哪個法請問\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"郭\", \"start\": 863.997, \"end\": 864.337, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 864.337, \"end\": 864.477, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 864.477, \"end\": 864.517, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 864.517, \"end\": 864.557, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", 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\"過\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 1355.453, \"end\": 1355.553, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1355.553, \"end\": 1355.653, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1355.653, \"end\": 1355.673, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 1355.673, \"end\": 1356.134, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1356.134, \"end\": 1356.354, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1356.354, \"end\": 1356.454, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1356.454, \"end\": 1356.474, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}]}, {\"start\": 1360.898, \"end\": 1383.073, \"text\": \"那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1360.898, \"end\": 1361.238, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1361.238, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"療\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1368.403, \"end\": 1369.544, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1369.544, \"end\": 1370.185, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1370.185, \"end\": 1371.486, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1371.486, \"end\": 1372.866, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1372.866, \"end\": 1373.687, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"窮\"}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1373.687, \"end\": 1373.967, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"切\", \"start\": 1373.967, \"end\": 1374.307, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1374.307, \"end\": 1374.908, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1374.908, \"end\": 1375.128, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 1375.128, 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\"明\", \"start\": 1853.404, \"end\": 1853.624, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 1853.624, \"end\": 1853.805, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 1853.805, \"end\": 1853.825, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:16,684 --> 00:00:20,466\n好,有請院長。請卓院長背信。公務員好。是,院長好。您辛苦了。經過今天一整天的總質詢,\n\n2\n00:00:35,572 --> 00:00:36,392\n希望委員對憲法有期待就好。\n\n3\n00:00:55,931 --> 00:01:24,207\n是,我對於《憲法》有期待,我對於我們這次的國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院,然後行政院昨天就提出了復印案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅昆奇總召的時候,您說您對於這個法案一無所知,並不了解。可是呢,沒想到您是早就準備好要提出這個復印案了嗎?而且下定決心就是要提復印了嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:24,790 --> 00:01:47,315\n跟委員報告我沒有說我一無所知我說我要接到大院的來文之後因為兩院之間是有政治往來的形式的才能夠一一去比對從您當時的回答裡面會讓我覺得說您好像對於這個法案是一無所知那您才剛上任就提復議您不擔心這項復議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎\n\n5\n00:01:48,069 --> 00:02:16,532\n委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色\n\n6\n00:02:22,181 --> 00:02:35,265\n這次行政院所提出來的憲法徵修條文,依據憲法徵修條文提出的復議,可是憲法徵修條文提起復議的前提要件是法律案治案難行。\n\n7\n00:02:36,570 --> 00:02:49,485\n那這就讓本席感到很奇怪了。我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎?不是。不是。那可是我們再看看行政院的復議的理由,更讓我感到錯愕。\n\n8\n00:02:51,425 --> 00:03:00,291\n我無法認同這樣的講法。我想請教立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員的行使職權的權利義務以及程序。請問這跟行政院有什麼關係?\n\n9\n00:03:21,015 --> 00:03:36,730\n跟委員報告因為行使的過程當中不僅是部長官員人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權力義務關係只要跟任何一個國人相關的行政院都有責任義務來保護他\n\n10\n00:03:44,339 --> 00:03:49,204\n行政院是立法院的上級機關,你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:49,204 --> 00:03:59,236\n行政院不是立法院的上級機關。對,所以呢在你們昨天記者會上面,指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵,我實在是不懂的,現在行政院是怎麼樣,你們已經要變成是大法官了嗎?\n\n12\n00:03:59,775 --> 00:04:16,062\n我不是指指點點,我們是依據事實提出我們的看法。接下來我要再說,行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎?不是。不是。你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎?不會。不會。你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權利嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:17,222 --> 00:04:19,404\n我們是針對整部法律提出復議,不是單對哪一個特別的條文。\n\n14\n00:04:38,619 --> 00:04:58,557\n您們針對整部法律提出負責才叫做奇怪。那麼這一次刑法徵定官員說謊罪。我們的立法院職權刑事法徵修處罰官員亂回答反質詢無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆以及其他藐視國會的行為。這樣的規定會讓行政院感到至愛難行嗎?難道行政院\n\n15\n00:05:04,402 --> 00:05:15,900\n這個沒有辦法約束你們的行政官員們做不到做不到不說謊不缺席不提供資料不隱匿資訊嗎這些事情你們做不到嗎\n\n16\n00:05:17,152 --> 00:05:41,202\n報告委員我曾經說過說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺但是在委員剛剛所提到的這個條文當中充滿很多的法律不確定性跟比例原則是嗎所以呢在你們現在行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定公平教育法裡面也有類似這樣的規定這些都違憲是不是\n\n17\n00:05:41,522 --> 00:05:55,220\n我們來檢視一下請行政院這個回去要求法規會檢視一下現在我們的所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定、處罰、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆等等這些行為。\n\n18\n00:05:59,224 --> 00:06:23,129\n跟委員報告,如果有類似的行為是透過檢察官的起訴,但是大院並不是司法檢察官。我現在講的是行政機關處罰,請您回去看一看有多少的條文裡面是有這樣的規定。這邊我不再跟您爭執,因為這是事實的問題。這不用爭執,這是事實。行政院,好我要講,行政院提出這樣的復議事由個人以為、本席以為。\n\n19\n00:06:24,050 --> 00:06:29,446\n這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話,而根本就是強詞奪理。\n\n20\n00:06:32,048 --> 00:06:54,440\n那麼,行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗。你們既不是這部法律的執行者,頂多就是受規範的關係人。到底有什麼好至愛難行?那麼這個是本席看到你們昨天所提出來的富裕的事由,我真的感到是荒謬至極。\n\n21\n00:06:55,896 --> 00:06:58,879\n好接下來我想請問好接下來我想要請教院長如果這項復議案不通過您會自行請辭嗎?早上我已經說過了依照政修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定\n\n22\n00:07:18,564 --> 00:07:27,088\n所以你會接受這個決議﹖是吧﹖所以你就會依據這個法律的規定去接受規範吧﹖所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎﹖這不是抵抗權﹖這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權利不是抵抗權﹖\n\n23\n00:07:38,513 --> 00:08:05,538\n是很好我希望您不要重蹈覆轍當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗圈我就讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了基本上就是接受決議該怎麼做就怎麼做就像我講的立法院職權行使法這是規範我們立法院的這個最主要是規範立法院立法委員的行為以及他的這個職權行使那你們只是被規範如果說是\n\n24\n00:08:06,058 --> 00:08:33,039\n有剛剛我講的那些虛偽陳述不提供資料無故缺席的行為才有可能會受到處罰而且還有救濟途徑請記得還有救濟途徑那麼我現在想講的就是請問院長您才剛上來就已經提了一個復議案未來您還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案繼續提出復議案嗎\n\n25\n00:08:34,090 --> 00:08:43,774\n考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持,而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論以及被社會共識所接受。我們要討論實質的內容嗎?\n\n26\n00:08:59,810 --> 00:09:15,799\n我是現在講說你們有這樣打算嗎?還是還沒有開始討論?還沒有看到大院的來文。好,那麼簡單來說本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起復議的話請要審慎的去思考你們復議的理由,是不是?\n\n27\n00:09:17,403 --> 00:09:18,884\n您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢作不敢當的惡名。\n\n28\n00:09:46,375 --> 00:09:57,802\n我相信民眾會把明天成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題。關於核電的議題,最近其實大家很多的討論。\n\n29\n00:10:06,556 --> 00:10:27,004\n當然特別是正好有一位立委和媒體報導就是大陸最近5月23、24號正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習那時候就立委跟媒體爆料說沒有任何一艘天然船在臺灣停靠卸貨\n\n30\n00:10:28,365 --> 00:10:46,042\n當然後來中郵是有發布新聞說還是有兩艘天然氣船是有一計劃順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主會帶來什麼樣的危機。\n\n31\n00:10:48,364 --> 00:11:04,337\n那事實上已經有很多的國內外的這個專家學者和智庫都預測未來大陸極有可能會對台灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖也就是他們不採取武力的手段\n\n32\n00:11:05,437 --> 00:11:06,537\n請問院長您是否同意?\n\n33\n00:11:25,848 --> 00:11:46,550\n很謝謝委員跟我一樣我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題所以我們對中國片面的發動這樣的軍演我們是表示非常的不滿意的所以我們應該站在同一個立場再次指指下我們當然要強化自己的國防力量包括我們的能源政策但我們的能源政策我們在做很多的多元綠能\n\n34\n00:11:48,412 --> 00:12:08,803\n您可能又把我的題目又扯遠了,我只是在問說是不是認同我們要發展多元能源而且自主能源的這樣的一個方向。那麼我想請教郭部長,能源自主,最好的能源的選擇是什麼?\n\n35\n00:12:11,283 --> 00:12:13,832\n以未來業者所要用的就是綠能。\n\n36\n00:12:18,663 --> 00:12:46,977\n律能你認為它是一個最好的能源自主的一個選項?是。是。律能的發電效率以及在您現在這個行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面它只佔兩成。也就是說如果說是假設一個狀況中國持續軍演然後也是週休二日五天在我們旁邊軍演兩天休息它只要維持了42天以上\n\n37\n00:13:12,151 --> 00:13:34,863\n對於民意,民意其實也是高度支持,我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚地顯示全台灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電,有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的。那在最近還有一間就是全球知名的英國民間\n\n38\n00:13:35,743 --> 00:13:36,483\n﹚翁曉玲\n\n39\n00:13:56,690 --> 00:14:23,397\n不僅是這個民調機構對臺灣所做的這個調查現在其實我們看到其實國外有很多國家他們的核電廠也都在演繹英國、美國、法國、日本等等那麼也有一些國家已經開始推動所謂SMR就是小型的核反應器允許民間企業自主設置請問在這樣的一個全世界的核電時代的趨勢下以及\n\n40\n00:14:23,997 --> 00:14:24,577\n請問郭部長有哪個法請問\n\n41\n00:14:53,510 --> 00:15:04,460\n我們現在的法就是規定這個核能在﹐就是核子設施的管制法您的意思是這個嗎?就是它裡面這個要不要把法規延長是嗎?所以如果說這個法規延長的話您會同意繼續讓核電廠研議嗎?\n\n42\n00:15:09,324 --> 00:15:23,336\n我們會要看這個我們目前的這個核電廠是不是符合研議的條件。好我要講就是包含本席在內的幾位委員我們其實都已經提案要修法這個電業法\n\n43\n00:15:25,217 --> 00:15:25,377\n﹚翁曉玲\n\n44\n00:15:55,608 --> 00:16:05,701\n經濟部會不會同意讓臺電申請研議?會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的盒子反應爐?\n\n45\n00:16:08,237 --> 00:16:28,990\n委員容許我跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員有提過一些民調的數字,我不敢否定這個民調的結果,但是我們如果把核能安全放下去做民調,把核廢料的處理放下去做民調,核廢料要放在哪裡,我相信數字會改變的,所以我們必須要正視這個問題。請問院長,您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎?\n\n46\n00:16:30,359 --> 00:16:57,277\n您了解現在核能科技的發展嗎?我知道啊,小型核電跟核融合,但是有一句話……然後核能安全、核廢料的處理,您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎?為什麼全世界這麼多的國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題,而只有民進黨政府是最擔心核廢料的問題?我其實真的覺得,民進黨政府,你們的政治素養很高,但是科學素養低落。\n\n47\n00:16:57,984 --> 00:17:14,036\n我有一句話希望委員能夠同意就是未來核能的發展未來核能的發展應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題但是未來的問題未來再去解決那未來核能發展到現在還是相當長遠的時間希望你能尊重我的質詢權因為我的時間很寶貴那麼我想郭部長在來擔任經濟部長之前在業界這麼長一段時間大概非常知道整個企業界的需求以及也能夠\n\n48\n00:17:27,927 --> 00:17:30,528\n我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該要多去\n\n49\n00:17:51,216 --> 00:18:16,101\n讀一讀或是多去請一些科技專家你們來教一下你們的科技知識。好,那麼簡單來說我想我們幾個委員我們都已經幫行政院現在都鋪好法律之路。未來法律通過我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意。那麼請問部長您之後您會同意臺電申請研議嗎?\n\n50\n00:18:19,127 --> 00:18:45,782\n我們會看這個未來的這個環境是怎麼樣的,如果說我們確定他安全無虞,那麼這個廢核料可以處理,那麼對民眾大家可以接受的情況之下,我們會持續的來進行。好,如果不在的話那沒關係,我希望就是說河安會也要開始啟動,相關的法規是在河安會,\n\n51\n00:19:06,212 --> 00:19:35,618\n好那麼最後本席要提在這個議題上面本席要提醒卓議員長和郭部長你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康以及生態環境會造成不可恢復的損害只要有未來只要有任何發生任何全國大停電或者是重大的事故本席一定會強烈對你們苛責好那接下來還有另外一個議題我們來談談司法正義吧\n\n52\n00:19:40,159 --> 00:20:08,142\n院長其實您是我的學長不可能那您是法律人出身我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧是可是很遺憾的在我這次閱讀您所提出來的行政院的施政報告裡面或是聆聽您口頭報告其實我沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字之字未提\n\n53\n00:20:09,332 --> 00:20:19,391\n您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎?做不到法律之前人人平等,做不到公平正義嗎?\n\n54\n00:20:21,442 --> 00:20:21,722\n施政法人員\n\n55\n00:20:39,565 --> 00:20:55,511\n是不是會公平對待每一個人,而不是欺善怕惡,遇到權貴就轉彎。否則民眾不會再相信司法,也不會相信司法能夠主持正義,維持社會秩序和捍衛人民的權益。\n\n56\n00:20:56,491 --> 00:21:23,265\n可是很遺憾就是就算是司法院法務部做再多的司法改革司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然因為呢如果說沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫打假球而已是無法取信於人民那麼也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴\n\n57\n00:21:25,411 --> 00:21:47,479\n所謂一顆老鼠屎換了一鍋粥那目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎但眾所周知最大的老鼠屎的案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子\n\n58\n00:21:48,882 --> 00:22:13,287\n一般民眾其實根本不了解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳生龍活虎參加各種活動的而且享受充分高度自由富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中受刑回獄中服刑到目前為止法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遊法外\n\n59\n00:22:16,055 --> 00:22:36,474\n跟委員說明,這個臺中監獄參著高雄長庚醫院的醫主希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動。那在可控的範圍內﹖好,謝謝院長,這些我都了解,因為我之前都有去調過相關的,透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長,\n\n60\n00:22:40,898 --> 00:23:03,073\n那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點\n\n61\n00:23:04,844 --> 00:23:21,113\n那麼這種遇到阿典就轉彎的司法正義已經成為全世界最大的笑話。人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得\n\n62\n00:23:21,533 --> 00:23:47,911\n沒有把陳水扁當成是一個獸型人來看待你是把他當成一個前總統所以你們還會說是這個他的這個診療報告還要考慮到他的身心平衡他要去出遊去訪視去餐廳吃飯這是遵照醫主對這是醫主很好那請問院長如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷那不如以後就把保外就醫的權利\n\n63\n00:23:48,772 --> 00:24:07,717\n就交給民間醫院去執行不是更好嗎那你們也不用監督查核花這麼多人力還要去做訪視找證書也可以不用負責任啊那未來受刑人很容易啊他只要買通了醫院然後寫了一個假的報告就可以逍遙法外永遠都不用回去坐牢\n\n64\n00:24:09,025 --> 00:24:09,265\n我必須說\n\n65\n00:24:31,175 --> 00:24:48,241\n跟這個院長對話我就很肯定我會覺得你會繼續包容縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面這個逍遙罰罰。這不是個人包不包容縱容的問題是遵照一組做的行為但是法務部還要做到很多的安全的管控。所以你們有去查核這個\n\n66\n00:24:49,381 --> 00:25:16,090\n這個我們跟委員報告其實我們就去都是會去訪視去查你們可以公開那個報告書嗎可以讓國人一起來檢驗檢視嗎好總之陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性的案件司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了\n\n67\n00:25:17,311 --> 00:25:44,121\n接下來就看賴政府的表現了。希望不要讓人民失望,我們希望能夠司法正義能夠重新起死回生。接下來我再要談的就是兩岸議題。其實我想這段時間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的這個問題。那麼兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府他所要面對一個非常重要的一個政策。他不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關,跟經濟各方面都息息相關。\n\n68\n00:25:46,042 --> 00:26:10,082\n院長在之前的記者會上也有說兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張兩岸關係是應該要互相堆疊善意而且要對等可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去的態度讓我也是很懷疑說你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎?我們已經恢復了團課已經確定了嗎?\n\n69\n00:26:14,096 --> 00:26:19,078\n我先要講一下就是說你們說要釋出善意,你們到底有提出哪些善意方案?\n\n70\n00:26:37,008 --> 00:26:53,249\n我們對於團客恢復就有團出去,我們對於教育部也有學衛生,我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相的交流。但是坦白說,因為我們現在看到,到底現在台灣對大陸還有釋出哪些善意?\n\n71\n00:26:54,864 --> 00:26:54,884\n關委員﹗\n\n72\n00:27:11,841 --> 00:27:23,809\n目前為止中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何……所以你們是開放的只是沒有他們沒有申請,所以一旦他們申請了你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎?如果定期航班還不行的話我們看看他們是不是有實際申請這個包船,我們會來考慮。\n\n73\n00:27:36,949 --> 00:27:37,350\n我們歡迎中國大陸的採選團到我們這邊來。\n\n74\n00:27:58,373 --> 00:28:06,806\n那相對於就是大陸他們那邊是蠻歡迎沒有對我們的這個商品有太多的限制這是一個對等嗎?\n\n75\n00:28:06,806 --> 00:28:11,533\n有啊他們現在也違反WTO的精神是啊他們才限制的他們才不讓利了100多項\n\n76\n00:28:13,255 --> 00:28:15,276\n報告委員我願意堆疊善意但是我很不願意看到他們無辜的軍演\n\n77\n00:28:28,581 --> 00:28:31,783\n在指責別人之前要回頭看看自己的作為。\n\n78\n00:28:58,701 --> 00:29:18,248\n最近也納入健保之前還有很多措施陸委會可以報告可是坦白說還不夠我知道但你們確實是有些進步了但是坦白說還不夠我們可以做到就將大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎讓他們也可以領獎學金讓他們也可以攻讀嗎請問可以做得到嗎\n\n79\n00:29:25,823 --> 00:29:37,548\n為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢?為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠領我吳曉玲教授的研究計畫當研究計畫助理?他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理?不能領研究計畫的費用?\n\n80\n00:29:39,369 --> 00:29:54,260\n總之,這個才有非常多的限制,包含兩岸的學術交流,教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格。\n\n81\n00:29:55,629 --> 00:30:15,482\n我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。委員我們也做了很多權益的保障。我們是對於台灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎?委員應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障。這些保障都不應該被忽視。是,院長因為您才剛上任還不到一個月,所以我能夠體諒您這個已經釋出了\n\n82\n00:30:18,464 --> 00:30:22,406\n我們也希望得到很多的善意。我們也希望得到很多的善意。\n\n83\n00:30:47,449 --> 00:30:53,825\n所以你不希望你們能夠聰明施政而不是聰明施政嗎?\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16684\t20466\t好,有請院長。請卓院長背信。公務員好。是,院長好。您辛苦了。經過今天一整天的總質詢,\n35572\t36392\t希望委員對憲法有期待就好。\n55931\t84207\t是,我對於《憲法》有期待,我對於我們這次的國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院,然後行政院昨天就提出了復印案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅昆奇總召的時候,您說您對於這個法案一無所知,並不了解。可是呢,沒想到您是早就準備好要提出這個復印案了嗎?而且下定決心就是要提復印了嗎?\n84790\t107315\t跟委員報告我沒有說我一無所知我說我要接到大院的來文之後因為兩院之間是有政治往來的形式的才能夠一一去比對從您當時的回答裡面會讓我覺得說您好像對於這個法案是一無所知那您才剛上任就提復議您不擔心這項復議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎\n108069\t136532\t委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色\n142181\t155265\t這次行政院所提出來的憲法徵修條文,依據憲法徵修條文提出的復議,可是憲法徵修條文提起復議的前提要件是法律案治案難行。\n156570\t169485\t那這就讓本席感到很奇怪了。我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎?不是。不是。那可是我們再看看行政院的復議的理由,更讓我感到錯愕。\n171425\t180291\t我無法認同這樣的講法。我想請教立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員的行使職權的權利義務以及程序。請問這跟行政院有什麼關係?\n201015\t216730\t跟委員報告因為行使的過程當中不僅是部長官員人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權力義務關係只要跟任何一個國人相關的行政院都有責任義務來保護他\n224339\t229204\t行政院是立法院的上級機關,你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎?\n229204\t239236\t行政院不是立法院的上級機關。對,所以呢在你們昨天記者會上面,指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵,我實在是不懂的,現在行政院是怎麼樣,你們已經要變成是大法官了嗎?\n239775\t256062\t我不是指指點點,我們是依據事實提出我們的看法。接下來我要再說,行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎?不是。不是。你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎?不會。不會。你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權利嗎?\n257222\t259404\t我們是針對整部法律提出復議,不是單對哪一個特別的條文。\n278619\t298557\t您們針對整部法律提出負責才叫做奇怪。那麼這一次刑法徵定官員說謊罪。我們的立法院職權刑事法徵修處罰官員亂回答反質詢無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆以及其他藐視國會的行為。這樣的規定會讓行政院感到至愛難行嗎?難道行政院\n304402\t315900\t這個沒有辦法約束你們的行政官員們做不到做不到不說謊不缺席不提供資料不隱匿資訊嗎這些事情你們做不到嗎\n317152\t341202\t報告委員我曾經說過說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺但是在委員剛剛所提到的這個條文當中充滿很多的法律不確定性跟比例原則是嗎所以呢在你們現在行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定公平教育法裡面也有類似這樣的規定這些都違憲是不是\n341522\t355220\t我們來檢視一下請行政院這個回去要求法規會檢視一下現在我們的所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定、處罰、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆等等這些行為。\n359224\t383129\t跟委員報告,如果有類似的行為是透過檢察官的起訴,但是大院並不是司法檢察官。我現在講的是行政機關處罰,請您回去看一看有多少的條文裡面是有這樣的規定。這邊我不再跟您爭執,因為這是事實的問題。這不用爭執,這是事實。行政院,好我要講,行政院提出這樣的復議事由個人以為、本席以為。\n384050\t389446\t這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話,而根本就是強詞奪理。\n392048\t414440\t那麼,行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗。你們既不是這部法律的執行者,頂多就是受規範的關係人。到底有什麼好至愛難行?那麼這個是本席看到你們昨天所提出來的富裕的事由,我真的感到是荒謬至極。\n415896\t418879\t好接下來我想請問好接下來我想要請教院長如果這項復議案不通過您會自行請辭嗎?早上我已經說過了依照政修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定\n438564\t447088\t所以你會接受這個決議﹖是吧﹖所以你就會依據這個法律的規定去接受規範吧﹖所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎﹖這不是抵抗權﹖這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權利不是抵抗權﹖\n458513\t485538\t是很好我希望您不要重蹈覆轍當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗圈我就讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了基本上就是接受決議該怎麼做就怎麼做就像我講的立法院職權行使法這是規範我們立法院的這個最主要是規範立法院立法委員的行為以及他的這個職權行使那你們只是被規範如果說是\n486058\t513039\t有剛剛我講的那些虛偽陳述不提供資料無故缺席的行為才有可能會受到處罰而且還有救濟途徑請記得還有救濟途徑那麼我現在想講的就是請問院長您才剛上來就已經提了一個復議案未來您還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案繼續提出復議案嗎\n514090\t523774\t考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持,而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論以及被社會共識所接受。我們要討論實質的內容嗎?\n539810\t555799\t我是現在講說你們有這樣打算嗎?還是還沒有開始討論?還沒有看到大院的來文。好,那麼簡單來說本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起復議的話請要審慎的去思考你們復議的理由,是不是?\n557403\t558884\t您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢作不敢當的惡名。\n586375\t597802\t我相信民眾會把明天成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題。關於核電的議題,最近其實大家很多的討論。\n606556\t627004\t當然特別是正好有一位立委和媒體報導就是大陸最近5月23、24號正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習那時候就立委跟媒體爆料說沒有任何一艘天然船在臺灣停靠卸貨\n628365\t646042\t當然後來中郵是有發布新聞說還是有兩艘天然氣船是有一計劃順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主會帶來什麼樣的危機。\n648364\t664337\t那事實上已經有很多的國內外的這個專家學者和智庫都預測未來大陸極有可能會對台灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖也就是他們不採取武力的手段\n665437\t666537\t請問院長您是否同意?\n685848\t706550\t很謝謝委員跟我一樣我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題所以我們對中國片面的發動這樣的軍演我們是表示非常的不滿意的所以我們應該站在同一個立場再次指指下我們當然要強化自己的國防力量包括我們的能源政策但我們的能源政策我們在做很多的多元綠能\n708412\t728803\t您可能又把我的題目又扯遠了,我只是在問說是不是認同我們要發展多元能源而且自主能源的這樣的一個方向。那麼我想請教郭部長,能源自主,最好的能源的選擇是什麼?\n731283\t733832\t以未來業者所要用的就是綠能。\n738663\t766977\t律能你認為它是一個最好的能源自主的一個選項?是。是。律能的發電效率以及在您現在這個行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面它只佔兩成。也就是說如果說是假設一個狀況中國持續軍演然後也是週休二日五天在我們旁邊軍演兩天休息它只要維持了42天以上\n768183\t791749\t﹏﹏\n792151\t814863\t對於民意,民意其實也是高度支持,我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚地顯示全台灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電,有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的。那在最近還有一間就是全球知名的英國民間\n815743\t816483\t﹚翁曉玲\n836690\t863397\t不僅是這個民調機構對臺灣所做的這個調查現在其實我們看到其實國外有很多國家他們的核電廠也都在演繹英國、美國、法國、日本等等那麼也有一些國家已經開始推動所謂SMR就是小型的核反應器允許民間企業自主設置請問在這樣的一個全世界的核電時代的趨勢下以及\n863997\t864577\t請問郭部長有哪個法請問\n893510\t904460\t我們現在的法就是規定這個核能在﹐就是核子設施的管制法您的意思是這個嗎?就是它裡面這個要不要把法規延長是嗎?所以如果說這個法規延長的話您會同意繼續讓核電廠研議嗎?\n909324\t923336\t我們會要看這個我們目前的這個核電廠是不是符合研議的條件。好我要講就是包含本席在內的幾位委員我們其實都已經提案要修法這個電業法\n925217\t925377\t﹚翁曉玲\n955608\t965701\t經濟部會不會同意讓臺電申請研議?會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的盒子反應爐?\n968237\t988990\t委員容許我跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員有提過一些民調的數字,我不敢否定這個民調的結果,但是我們如果把核能安全放下去做民調,把核廢料的處理放下去做民調,核廢料要放在哪裡,我相信數字會改變的,所以我們必須要正視這個問題。請問院長,您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎?\n990359\t1017277\t您了解現在核能科技的發展嗎?我知道啊,小型核電跟核融合,但是有一句話……然後核能安全、核廢料的處理,您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎?為什麼全世界這麼多的國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題,而只有民進黨政府是最擔心核廢料的問題?我其實真的覺得,民進黨政府,你們的政治素養很高,但是科學素養低落。\n1017984\t1034036\t我有一句話希望委員能夠同意就是未來核能的發展未來核能的發展應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題但是未來的問題未來再去解決那未來核能發展到現在還是相當長遠的時間希望你能尊重我的質詢權因為我的時間很寶貴那麼我想郭部長在來擔任經濟部長之前在業界這麼長一段時間大概非常知道整個企業界的需求以及也能夠\n1047927\t1050528\t我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該要多去\n1071216\t1096101\t讀一讀或是多去請一些科技專家你們來教一下你們的科技知識。好,那麼簡單來說我想我們幾個委員我們都已經幫行政院現在都鋪好法律之路。未來法律通過我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意。那麼請問部長您之後您會同意臺電申請研議嗎?\n1099127\t1125782\t我們會看這個未來的這個環境是怎麼樣的,如果說我們確定他安全無虞,那麼這個廢核料可以處理,那麼對民眾大家可以接受的情況之下,我們會持續的來進行。好,如果不在的話那沒關係,我希望就是說河安會也要開始啟動,相關的法規是在河安會,\n1127056\t1146152\t﹗\n1146212\t1175618\t好 那麼最後本席要提在這個議題上面本席要提醒卓議員長和郭部長你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康以及生態環境會造成不可恢復的損害只要有未來只要有任何發生任何全國大停電或者是重大的事故本席一定會強烈對你們苛責好 那接下來還有另外一個議題我們來談談司法正義吧\n1180159\t1208142\t院長其實您是我的學長不可能那您是法律人出身我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧是可是很遺憾的在我這次閱讀您所提出來的行政院的施政報告裡面或是聆聽您口頭報告其實我沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字之字未提\n1209332\t1219391\t您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎?做不到法律之前人人平等,做不到公平正義嗎?\n1221442\t1221722\t施政法人員\n1239565\t1255511\t是不是會公平對待每一個人,而不是欺善怕惡,遇到權貴就轉彎。否則民眾不會再相信司法,也不會相信司法能夠主持正義,維持社會秩序和捍衛人民的權益。\n1256491\t1283265\t可是很遺憾就是就算是司法院法務部做再多的司法改革司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然因為呢如果說沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫打假球而已是無法取信於人民那麼也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴\n1285411\t1307479\t所謂一顆老鼠屎換了一鍋粥那目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎但眾所周知最大的老鼠屎的案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子\n1308882\t1333287\t一般民眾其實根本不了解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳生龍活虎參加各種活動的而且享受充分高度自由富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中受刑回獄中服刑到目前為止法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遊法外\n1336055\t1356474\t跟委員說明,這個臺中監獄參著高雄長庚醫院的醫主希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動。那在可控的範圍內﹖好,謝謝院長,這些我都了解,因為我之前都有去調過相關的,透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長,\n1360898\t1383073\t那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點\n1384844\t1401113\t那麼這種遇到阿典就轉彎的司法正義已經成為全世界最大的笑話。人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得\n1401533\t1427911\t沒有把陳水扁當成是一個獸型人來看待你是把他當成一個前總統所以你們還會說是這個他的這個診療報告還要考慮到他的身心平衡他要去出遊去訪視去餐廳吃飯這是遵照醫主對這是醫主很好那請問院長如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷那不如以後就把保外就醫的權利\n1428772\t1447717\t就交給民間醫院去執行不是更好嗎那你們也不用監督查核花這麼多人力還要去做訪視找證書也可以不用負責任啊那未來受刑人很容易啊他只要買通了醫院然後寫了一個假的報告就可以逍遙法外永遠都不用回去坐牢\n1449025\t1449265\t我必須說\n1471175\t1488241\t跟這個院長對話我就很肯定我會覺得你會繼續包容縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面這個逍遙罰罰。 這不是個人包不包容縱容的問題是遵照一組做的行為但是法務部還要做到很多的安全的管控。 所以你們有去查核這個\n1489381\t1516090\t這個我們跟委員報告其實我們就去都是會去訪視去查你們可以公開那個報告書嗎可以讓國人一起來檢驗檢視嗎好總之陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性的案件司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了\n1517311\t1544121\t接下來就看賴政府的表現了。希望不要讓人民失望,我們希望能夠司法正義能夠重新起死回生。接下來我再要談的就是兩岸議題。其實我想這段時間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的這個問題。那麼兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府他所要面對一個非常重要的一個政策。他不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關,跟經濟各方面都息息相關。\n1546042\t1570082\t院長在之前的記者會上也有說兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張兩岸關係是應該要互相堆疊善意而且要對等可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去的態度讓我也是很懷疑說你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎?我們已經恢復了團課已經確定了嗎?\n1574096\t1579078\t我先要講一下就是說你們說要釋出善意,你們到底有提出哪些善意方案?\n1597008\t1613249\t我們對於團客恢復就有團出去,我們對於教育部也有學衛生,我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相的交流。但是坦白說,因為我們現在看到,到底現在台灣對大陸還有釋出哪些善意?\n1614864\t1614884\t關委員﹗\n1631841\t1643809\t目前為止中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何……所以你們是開放的只是沒有他們沒有申請,所以一旦他們申請了你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎?如果定期航班還不行的話我們看看他們是不是有實際申請這個包船,我們會來考慮。\n1656949\t1657350\t我們歡迎中國大陸的採選團到我們這邊來。\n1678373\t1686806\t那相對於就是大陸他們那邊是蠻歡迎沒有對我們的這個商品有太多的限制這是一個對等嗎?\n1686806\t1691533\t有啊他們現在也違反WTO的精神 是啊他們才限制的他們才不讓利了100多項\n1693255\t1695276\t報告委員我願意堆疊善意但是我很不願意看到他們無辜的軍演\n1708581\t1711783\t在指責別人之前要回頭看看自己的作為。\n1738701\t1758248\t最近也納入健保之前還有很多措施陸委會可以報告可是坦白說還不夠我知道但你們確實是有些進步了但是坦白說還不夠我們可以做到就將大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎讓他們也可以領獎學金讓他們也可以攻讀嗎請問可以做得到嗎\n1765823\t1777548\t為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢?為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠領我吳曉玲教授的研究計畫當研究計畫助理?他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理?不能領研究計畫的費用?\n1779369\t1794260\t總之,這個才有非常多的限制,包含兩岸的學術交流,教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格。\n1795629\t1815482\t我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。委員我們也做了很多權益的保障。我們是對於台灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎?委員應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障。這些保障都不應該被忽視。是,院長因為您才剛上任還不到一個月,所以我能夠體諒您這個已經釋出了\n1818464\t1822406\t我們也希望得到很多的善意。我們也希望得到很多的善意。\n1847449\t1853825\t所以你不希望你們能夠聰明施政而不是聰明施政嗎?\n","txt":"好,有請院長。請卓院長背信。公務員好。是,院長好。您辛苦了。經過今天一整天的總質詢,\n希望委員對憲法有期待就好。\n是,我對於《憲法》有期待,我對於我們這次的國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院,然後行政院昨天就提出了復印案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅昆奇總召的時候,您說您對於這個法案一無所知,並不了解。可是呢,沒想到您是早就準備好要提出這個復印案了嗎?而且下定決心就是要提復印了嗎?\n跟委員報告我沒有說我一無所知我說我要接到大院的來文之後因為兩院之間是有政治往來的形式的才能夠一一去比對從您當時的回答裡面會讓我覺得說您好像對於這個法案是一無所知那您才剛上任就提復議您不擔心這項復議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎\n委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色\n這次行政院所提出來的憲法徵修條文,依據憲法徵修條文提出的復議,可是憲法徵修條文提起復議的前提要件是法律案治案難行。\n那這就讓本席感到很奇怪了。我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎?不是。不是。那可是我們再看看行政院的復議的理由,更讓我感到錯愕。\n我無法認同這樣的講法。我想請教立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員的行使職權的權利義務以及程序。請問這跟行政院有什麼關係?\n跟委員報告因為行使的過程當中不僅是部長官員人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權力義務關係只要跟任何一個國人相關的行政院都有責任義務來保護他\n行政院是立法院的上級機關,你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎?\n行政院不是立法院的上級機關。對,所以呢在你們昨天記者會上面,指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵,我實在是不懂的,現在行政院是怎麼樣,你們已經要變成是大法官了嗎?\n我不是指指點點,我們是依據事實提出我們的看法。接下來我要再說,行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎?不是。不是。你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎?不會。不會。你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權利嗎?\n我們是針對整部法律提出復議,不是單對哪一個特別的條文。\n您們針對整部法律提出負責才叫做奇怪。那麼這一次刑法徵定官員說謊罪。我們的立法院職權刑事法徵修處罰官員亂回答反質詢無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆以及其他藐視國會的行為。這樣的規定會讓行政院感到至愛難行嗎?難道行政院\n這個沒有辦法約束你們的行政官員們做不到做不到不說謊不缺席不提供資料不隱匿資訊嗎這些事情你們做不到嗎\n報告委員我曾經說過說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺但是在委員剛剛所提到的這個條文當中充滿很多的法律不確定性跟比例原則是嗎所以呢在你們現在行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定公平教育法裡面也有類似這樣的規定這些都違憲是不是\n我們來檢視一下請行政院這個回去要求法規會檢視一下現在我們的所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定、處罰、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆等等這些行為。\n跟委員報告,如果有類似的行為是透過檢察官的起訴,但是大院並不是司法檢察官。我現在講的是行政機關處罰,請您回去看一看有多少的條文裡面是有這樣的規定。這邊我不再跟您爭執,因為這是事實的問題。這不用爭執,這是事實。行政院,好我要講,行政院提出這樣的復議事由個人以為、本席以為。\n這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話,而根本就是強詞奪理。\n那麼,行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗。你們既不是這部法律的執行者,頂多就是受規範的關係人。到底有什麼好至愛難行?那麼這個是本席看到你們昨天所提出來的富裕的事由,我真的感到是荒謬至極。\n好接下來我想請問好接下來我想要請教院長如果這項復議案不通過您會自行請辭嗎?早上我已經說過了依照政修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定\n所以你會接受這個決議﹖是吧﹖所以你就會依據這個法律的規定去接受規範吧﹖所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎﹖這不是抵抗權﹖這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權利不是抵抗權﹖\n是很好我希望您不要重蹈覆轍當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗圈我就讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了基本上就是接受決議該怎麼做就怎麼做就像我講的立法院職權行使法這是規範我們立法院的這個最主要是規範立法院立法委員的行為以及他的這個職權行使那你們只是被規範如果說是\n有剛剛我講的那些虛偽陳述不提供資料無故缺席的行為才有可能會受到處罰而且還有救濟途徑請記得還有救濟途徑那麼我現在想講的就是請問院長您才剛上來就已經提了一個復議案未來您還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案繼續提出復議案嗎\n考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持,而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論以及被社會共識所接受。我們要討論實質的內容嗎?\n我是現在講說你們有這樣打算嗎?還是還沒有開始討論?還沒有看到大院的來文。好,那麼簡單來說本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起復議的話請要審慎的去思考你們復議的理由,是不是?\n您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢作不敢當的惡名。\n我相信民眾會把明天成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題。關於核電的議題,最近其實大家很多的討論。\n當然特別是正好有一位立委和媒體報導就是大陸最近5月23、24號正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習那時候就立委跟媒體爆料說沒有任何一艘天然船在臺灣停靠卸貨\n當然後來中郵是有發布新聞說還是有兩艘天然氣船是有一計劃順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主會帶來什麼樣的危機。\n那事實上已經有很多的國內外的這個專家學者和智庫都預測未來大陸極有可能會對台灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖也就是他們不採取武力的手段\n請問院長您是否同意?\n很謝謝委員跟我一樣我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題所以我們對中國片面的發動這樣的軍演我們是表示非常的不滿意的所以我們應該站在同一個立場再次指指下我們當然要強化自己的國防力量包括我們的能源政策但我們的能源政策我們在做很多的多元綠能\n您可能又把我的題目又扯遠了,我只是在問說是不是認同我們要發展多元能源而且自主能源的這樣的一個方向。那麼我想請教郭部長,能源自主,最好的能源的選擇是什麼?\n以未來業者所要用的就是綠能。\n律能你認為它是一個最好的能源自主的一個選項?是。是。律能的發電效率以及在您現在這個行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面它只佔兩成。也就是說如果說是假設一個狀況中國持續軍演然後也是週休二日五天在我們旁邊軍演兩天休息它只要維持了42天以上\n﹏﹏\n對於民意,民意其實也是高度支持,我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚地顯示全台灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電,有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的。那在最近還有一間就是全球知名的英國民間\n﹚翁曉玲\n不僅是這個民調機構對臺灣所做的這個調查現在其實我們看到其實國外有很多國家他們的核電廠也都在演繹英國、美國、法國、日本等等那麼也有一些國家已經開始推動所謂SMR就是小型的核反應器允許民間企業自主設置請問在這樣的一個全世界的核電時代的趨勢下以及\n請問郭部長有哪個法請問\n我們現在的法就是規定這個核能在﹐就是核子設施的管制法您的意思是這個嗎?就是它裡面這個要不要把法規延長是嗎?所以如果說這個法規延長的話您會同意繼續讓核電廠研議嗎?\n我們會要看這個我們目前的這個核電廠是不是符合研議的條件。好我要講就是包含本席在內的幾位委員我們其實都已經提案要修法這個電業法\n﹚翁曉玲\n經濟部會不會同意讓臺電申請研議?會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的盒子反應爐?\n委員容許我跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員有提過一些民調的數字,我不敢否定這個民調的結果,但是我們如果把核能安全放下去做民調,把核廢料的處理放下去做民調,核廢料要放在哪裡,我相信數字會改變的,所以我們必須要正視這個問題。請問院長,您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎?\n您了解現在核能科技的發展嗎?我知道啊,小型核電跟核融合,但是有一句話……然後核能安全、核廢料的處理,您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎?為什麼全世界這麼多的國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題,而只有民進黨政府是最擔心核廢料的問題?我其實真的覺得,民進黨政府,你們的政治素養很高,但是科學素養低落。\n我有一句話希望委員能夠同意就是未來核能的發展未來核能的發展應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題但是未來的問題未來再去解決那未來核能發展到現在還是相當長遠的時間希望你能尊重我的質詢權因為我的時間很寶貴那麼我想郭部長在來擔任經濟部長之前在業界這麼長一段時間大概非常知道整個企業界的需求以及也能夠\n我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該要多去\n讀一讀或是多去請一些科技專家你們來教一下你們的科技知識。好,那麼簡單來說我想我們幾個委員我們都已經幫行政院現在都鋪好法律之路。未來法律通過我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意。那麼請問部長您之後您會同意臺電申請研議嗎?\n我們會看這個未來的這個環境是怎麼樣的,如果說我們確定他安全無虞,那麼這個廢核料可以處理,那麼對民眾大家可以接受的情況之下,我們會持續的來進行。好,如果不在的話那沒關係,我希望就是說河安會也要開始啟動,相關的法規是在河安會,\n﹗\n好 那麼最後本席要提在這個議題上面本席要提醒卓議員長和郭部長你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康以及生態環境會造成不可恢復的損害只要有未來只要有任何發生任何全國大停電或者是重大的事故本席一定會強烈對你們苛責好 那接下來還有另外一個議題我們來談談司法正義吧\n院長其實您是我的學長不可能那您是法律人出身我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧是可是很遺憾的在我這次閱讀您所提出來的行政院的施政報告裡面或是聆聽您口頭報告其實我沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字之字未提\n您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎?做不到法律之前人人平等,做不到公平正義嗎?\n施政法人員\n是不是會公平對待每一個人,而不是欺善怕惡,遇到權貴就轉彎。否則民眾不會再相信司法,也不會相信司法能夠主持正義,維持社會秩序和捍衛人民的權益。\n可是很遺憾就是就算是司法院法務部做再多的司法改革司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然因為呢如果說沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫打假球而已是無法取信於人民那麼也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴\n所謂一顆老鼠屎換了一鍋粥那目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎但眾所周知最大的老鼠屎的案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子\n一般民眾其實根本不了解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳生龍活虎參加各種活動的而且享受充分高度自由富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中受刑回獄中服刑到目前為止法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遊法外\n跟委員說明,這個臺中監獄參著高雄長庚醫院的醫主希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動。那在可控的範圍內﹖好,謝謝院長,這些我都了解,因為我之前都有去調過相關的,透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長,\n那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點\n那麼這種遇到阿典就轉彎的司法正義已經成為全世界最大的笑話。人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得\n沒有把陳水扁當成是一個獸型人來看待你是把他當成一個前總統所以你們還會說是這個他的這個診療報告還要考慮到他的身心平衡他要去出遊去訪視去餐廳吃飯這是遵照醫主對這是醫主很好那請問院長如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷那不如以後就把保外就醫的權利\n就交給民間醫院去執行不是更好嗎那你們也不用監督查核花這麼多人力還要去做訪視找證書也可以不用負責任啊那未來受刑人很容易啊他只要買通了醫院然後寫了一個假的報告就可以逍遙法外永遠都不用回去坐牢\n我必須說\n跟這個院長對話我就很肯定我會覺得你會繼續包容縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面這個逍遙罰罰。 這不是個人包不包容縱容的問題是遵照一組做的行為但是法務部還要做到很多的安全的管控。 所以你們有去查核這個\n這個我們跟委員報告其實我們就去都是會去訪視去查你們可以公開那個報告書嗎可以讓國人一起來檢驗檢視嗎好總之陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性的案件司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了\n接下來就看賴政府的表現了。希望不要讓人民失望,我們希望能夠司法正義能夠重新起死回生。接下來我再要談的就是兩岸議題。其實我想這段時間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的這個問題。那麼兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府他所要面對一個非常重要的一個政策。他不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關,跟經濟各方面都息息相關。\n院長在之前的記者會上也有說兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張兩岸關係是應該要互相堆疊善意而且要對等可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去的態度讓我也是很懷疑說你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎?我們已經恢復了團課已經確定了嗎?\n我先要講一下就是說你們說要釋出善意,你們到底有提出哪些善意方案?\n我們對於團客恢復就有團出去,我們對於教育部也有學衛生,我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相的交流。但是坦白說,因為我們現在看到,到底現在台灣對大陸還有釋出哪些善意?\n關委員﹗\n目前為止中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何……所以你們是開放的只是沒有他們沒有申請,所以一旦他們申請了你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎?如果定期航班還不行的話我們看看他們是不是有實際申請這個包船,我們會來考慮。\n我們歡迎中國大陸的採選團到我們這邊來。\n那相對於就是大陸他們那邊是蠻歡迎沒有對我們的這個商品有太多的限制這是一個對等嗎?\n有啊他們現在也違反WTO的精神 是啊他們才限制的他們才不讓利了100多項\n報告委員我願意堆疊善意但是我很不願意看到他們無辜的軍演\n在指責別人之前要回頭看看自己的作為。\n最近也納入健保之前還有很多措施陸委會可以報告可是坦白說還不夠我知道但你們確實是有些進步了但是坦白說還不夠我們可以做到就將大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎讓他們也可以領獎學金讓他們也可以攻讀嗎請問可以做得到嗎\n為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢?為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠領我吳曉玲教授的研究計畫當研究計畫助理?他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理?不能領研究計畫的費用?\n總之,這個才有非常多的限制,包含兩岸的學術交流,教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格。\n我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。委員我們也做了很多權益的保障。我們是對於台灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎?委員應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障。這些保障都不應該被忽視。是,院長因為您才剛上任還不到一個月,所以我能夠體諒您這個已經釋出了\n我們也希望得到很多的善意。我們也希望得到很多的善意。\n所以你不希望你們能夠聰明施政而不是聰明施政嗎?\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.684 --> 00:20.466\n好,有請院長。請卓院長背信。公務員好。是,院長好。您辛苦了。經過今天一整天的總質詢,\n\n00:35.572 --> 00:36.392\n希望委員對憲法有期待就好。\n\n00:55.931 --> 01:24.207\n是,我對於《憲法》有期待,我對於我們這次的國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院,然後行政院昨天就提出了復印案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅昆奇總召的時候,您說您對於這個法案一無所知,並不了解。可是呢,沒想到您是早就準備好要提出這個復印案了嗎?而且下定決心就是要提復印了嗎?\n\n01:24.790 --> 01:47.315\n跟委員報告我沒有說我一無所知我說我要接到大院的來文之後因為兩院之間是有政治往來的形式的才能夠一一去比對從您當時的回答裡面會讓我覺得說您好像對於這個法案是一無所知那您才剛上任就提復議您不擔心這項復議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎\n\n01:48.069 --> 02:16.532\n委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色\n\n02:22.181 --> 02:35.265\n這次行政院所提出來的憲法徵修條文,依據憲法徵修條文提出的復議,可是憲法徵修條文提起復議的前提要件是法律案治案難行。\n\n02:36.570 --> 02:49.485\n那這就讓本席感到很奇怪了。我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎?不是。不是。那可是我們再看看行政院的復議的理由,更讓我感到錯愕。\n\n02:51.425 --> 03:00.291\n我無法認同這樣的講法。我想請教立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員的行使職權的權利義務以及程序。請問這跟行政院有什麼關係?\n\n03:21.015 --> 03:36.730\n跟委員報告因為行使的過程當中不僅是部長官員人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權力義務關係只要跟任何一個國人相關的行政院都有責任義務來保護他\n\n03:44.339 --> 03:49.204\n行政院是立法院的上級機關,你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎?\n\n03:49.204 --> 03:59.236\n行政院不是立法院的上級機關。對,所以呢在你們昨天記者會上面,指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵,我實在是不懂的,現在行政院是怎麼樣,你們已經要變成是大法官了嗎?\n\n03:59.775 --> 04:16.062\n我不是指指點點,我們是依據事實提出我們的看法。接下來我要再說,行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎?不是。不是。你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎?不會。不會。你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權利嗎?\n\n04:17.222 --> 04:19.404\n我們是針對整部法律提出復議,不是單對哪一個特別的條文。\n\n04:38.619 --> 04:58.557\n您們針對整部法律提出負責才叫做奇怪。那麼這一次刑法徵定官員說謊罪。我們的立法院職權刑事法徵修處罰官員亂回答反質詢無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆以及其他藐視國會的行為。這樣的規定會讓行政院感到至愛難行嗎?難道行政院\n\n05:04.402 --> 05:15.900\n這個沒有辦法約束你們的行政官員們做不到做不到不說謊不缺席不提供資料不隱匿資訊嗎這些事情你們做不到嗎\n\n05:17.152 --> 05:41.202\n報告委員我曾經說過說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺但是在委員剛剛所提到的這個條文當中充滿很多的法律不確定性跟比例原則是嗎所以呢在你們現在行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定公平教育法裡面也有類似這樣的規定這些都違憲是不是\n\n05:41.522 --> 05:55.220\n我們來檢視一下請行政院這個回去要求法規會檢視一下現在我們的所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定、處罰、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆等等這些行為。\n\n05:59.224 --> 06:23.129\n跟委員報告,如果有類似的行為是透過檢察官的起訴,但是大院並不是司法檢察官。我現在講的是行政機關處罰,請您回去看一看有多少的條文裡面是有這樣的規定。這邊我不再跟您爭執,因為這是事實的問題。這不用爭執,這是事實。行政院,好我要講,行政院提出這樣的復議事由個人以為、本席以為。\n\n06:24.050 --> 06:29.446\n這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話,而根本就是強詞奪理。\n\n06:32.048 --> 06:54.440\n那麼,行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗。你們既不是這部法律的執行者,頂多就是受規範的關係人。到底有什麼好至愛難行?那麼這個是本席看到你們昨天所提出來的富裕的事由,我真的感到是荒謬至極。\n\n06:55.896 --> 06:58.879\n好接下來我想請問好接下來我想要請教院長如果這項復議案不通過您會自行請辭嗎?早上我已經說過了依照政修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定\n\n07:18.564 --> 07:27.088\n所以你會接受這個決議﹖是吧﹖所以你就會依據這個法律的規定去接受規範吧﹖所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎﹖這不是抵抗權﹖這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權利不是抵抗權﹖\n\n07:38.513 --> 08:05.538\n是很好我希望您不要重蹈覆轍當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗圈我就讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了基本上就是接受決議該怎麼做就怎麼做就像我講的立法院職權行使法這是規範我們立法院的這個最主要是規範立法院立法委員的行為以及他的這個職權行使那你們只是被規範如果說是\n\n08:06.058 --> 08:33.039\n有剛剛我講的那些虛偽陳述不提供資料無故缺席的行為才有可能會受到處罰而且還有救濟途徑請記得還有救濟途徑那麼我現在想講的就是請問院長您才剛上來就已經提了一個復議案未來您還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案繼續提出復議案嗎\n\n08:34.090 --> 08:43.774\n考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持,而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論以及被社會共識所接受。我們要討論實質的內容嗎?\n\n08:59.810 --> 09:15.799\n我是現在講說你們有這樣打算嗎?還是還沒有開始討論?還沒有看到大院的來文。好,那麼簡單來說本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起復議的話請要審慎的去思考你們復議的理由,是不是?\n\n09:17.403 --> 09:18.884\n您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢作不敢當的惡名。\n\n09:46.375 --> 09:57.802\n我相信民眾會把明天成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題。關於核電的議題,最近其實大家很多的討論。\n\n10:06.556 --> 10:27.004\n當然特別是正好有一位立委和媒體報導就是大陸最近5月23、24號正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習那時候就立委跟媒體爆料說沒有任何一艘天然船在臺灣停靠卸貨\n\n10:28.365 --> 10:46.042\n當然後來中郵是有發布新聞說還是有兩艘天然氣船是有一計劃順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主會帶來什麼樣的危機。\n\n10:48.364 --> 11:04.337\n那事實上已經有很多的國內外的這個專家學者和智庫都預測未來大陸極有可能會對台灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖也就是他們不採取武力的手段\n\n11:05.437 --> 11:06.537\n請問院長您是否同意?\n\n11:25.848 --> 11:46.550\n很謝謝委員跟我一樣我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題所以我們對中國片面的發動這樣的軍演我們是表示非常的不滿意的所以我們應該站在同一個立場再次指指下我們當然要強化自己的國防力量包括我們的能源政策但我們的能源政策我們在做很多的多元綠能\n\n11:48.412 --> 12:08.803\n您可能又把我的題目又扯遠了,我只是在問說是不是認同我們要發展多元能源而且自主能源的這樣的一個方向。那麼我想請教郭部長,能源自主,最好的能源的選擇是什麼?\n\n12:11.283 --> 12:13.832\n以未來業者所要用的就是綠能。\n\n12:18.663 --> 12:46.977\n律能你認為它是一個最好的能源自主的一個選項?是。是。律能的發電效率以及在您現在這個行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面它只佔兩成。也就是說如果說是假設一個狀況中國持續軍演然後也是週休二日五天在我們旁邊軍演兩天休息它只要維持了42天以上\n\n13:12.151 --> 13:34.863\n對於民意,民意其實也是高度支持,我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚地顯示全台灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電,有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的。那在最近還有一間就是全球知名的英國民間\n\n13:35.743 --> 13:36.483\n﹚翁曉玲\n\n13:56.690 --> 14:23.397\n不僅是這個民調機構對臺灣所做的這個調查現在其實我們看到其實國外有很多國家他們的核電廠也都在演繹英國、美國、法國、日本等等那麼也有一些國家已經開始推動所謂SMR就是小型的核反應器允許民間企業自主設置請問在這樣的一個全世界的核電時代的趨勢下以及\n\n14:23.997 --> 14:24.577\n請問郭部長有哪個法請問\n\n14:53.510 --> 15:04.460\n我們現在的法就是規定這個核能在﹐就是核子設施的管制法您的意思是這個嗎?就是它裡面這個要不要把法規延長是嗎?所以如果說這個法規延長的話您會同意繼續讓核電廠研議嗎?\n\n15:09.324 --> 15:23.336\n我們會要看這個我們目前的這個核電廠是不是符合研議的條件。好我要講就是包含本席在內的幾位委員我們其實都已經提案要修法這個電業法\n\n15:25.217 --> 15:25.377\n﹚翁曉玲\n\n15:55.608 --> 16:05.701\n經濟部會不會同意讓臺電申請研議?會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的盒子反應爐?\n\n16:08.237 --> 16:28.990\n委員容許我跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員有提過一些民調的數字,我不敢否定這個民調的結果,但是我們如果把核能安全放下去做民調,把核廢料的處理放下去做民調,核廢料要放在哪裡,我相信數字會改變的,所以我們必須要正視這個問題。請問院長,您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎?\n\n16:30.359 --> 16:57.277\n您了解現在核能科技的發展嗎?我知道啊,小型核電跟核融合,但是有一句話……然後核能安全、核廢料的處理,您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎?為什麼全世界這麼多的國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題,而只有民進黨政府是最擔心核廢料的問題?我其實真的覺得,民進黨政府,你們的政治素養很高,但是科學素養低落。\n\n16:57.984 --> 17:14.036\n我有一句話希望委員能夠同意就是未來核能的發展未來核能的發展應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題但是未來的問題未來再去解決那未來核能發展到現在還是相當長遠的時間希望你能尊重我的質詢權因為我的時間很寶貴那麼我想郭部長在來擔任經濟部長之前在業界這麼長一段時間大概非常知道整個企業界的需求以及也能夠\n\n17:27.927 --> 17:30.528\n我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該要多去\n\n17:51.216 --> 18:16.101\n讀一讀或是多去請一些科技專家你們來教一下你們的科技知識。好,那麼簡單來說我想我們幾個委員我們都已經幫行政院現在都鋪好法律之路。未來法律通過我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意。那麼請問部長您之後您會同意臺電申請研議嗎?\n\n18:19.127 --> 18:45.782\n我們會看這個未來的這個環境是怎麼樣的,如果說我們確定他安全無虞,那麼這個廢核料可以處理,那麼對民眾大家可以接受的情況之下,我們會持續的來進行。好,如果不在的話那沒關係,我希望就是說河安會也要開始啟動,相關的法規是在河安會,\n\n19:06.212 --> 19:35.618\n好那麼最後本席要提在這個議題上面本席要提醒卓議員長和郭部長你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康以及生態環境會造成不可恢復的損害只要有未來只要有任何發生任何全國大停電或者是重大的事故本席一定會強烈對你們苛責好那接下來還有另外一個議題我們來談談司法正義吧\n\n19:40.159 --> 20:08.142\n院長其實您是我的學長不可能那您是法律人出身我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧是可是很遺憾的在我這次閱讀您所提出來的行政院的施政報告裡面或是聆聽您口頭報告其實我沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字之字未提\n\n20:09.332 --> 20:19.391\n您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎?做不到法律之前人人平等,做不到公平正義嗎?\n\n20:21.442 --> 20:21.722\n施政法人員\n\n20:39.565 --> 20:55.511\n是不是會公平對待每一個人,而不是欺善怕惡,遇到權貴就轉彎。否則民眾不會再相信司法,也不會相信司法能夠主持正義,維持社會秩序和捍衛人民的權益。\n\n20:56.491 --> 21:23.265\n可是很遺憾就是就算是司法院法務部做再多的司法改革司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然因為呢如果說沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫打假球而已是無法取信於人民那麼也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴\n\n21:25.411 --> 21:47.479\n所謂一顆老鼠屎換了一鍋粥那目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎但眾所周知最大的老鼠屎的案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子\n\n21:48.882 --> 22:13.287\n一般民眾其實根本不了解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳生龍活虎參加各種活動的而且享受充分高度自由富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中受刑回獄中服刑到目前為止法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遊法外\n\n22:16.055 --> 22:36.474\n跟委員說明,這個臺中監獄參著高雄長庚醫院的醫主希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動。那在可控的範圍內﹖好,謝謝院長,這些我都了解,因為我之前都有去調過相關的,透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長,\n\n22:40.898 --> 23:03.073\n那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點\n\n23:04.844 --> 23:21.113\n那麼這種遇到阿典就轉彎的司法正義已經成為全世界最大的笑話。人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得\n\n23:21.533 --> 23:47.911\n沒有把陳水扁當成是一個獸型人來看待你是把他當成一個前總統所以你們還會說是這個他的這個診療報告還要考慮到他的身心平衡他要去出遊去訪視去餐廳吃飯這是遵照醫主對這是醫主很好那請問院長如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷那不如以後就把保外就醫的權利\n\n23:48.772 --> 24:07.717\n就交給民間醫院去執行不是更好嗎那你們也不用監督查核花這麼多人力還要去做訪視找證書也可以不用負責任啊那未來受刑人很容易啊他只要買通了醫院然後寫了一個假的報告就可以逍遙法外永遠都不用回去坐牢\n\n24:09.025 --> 24:09.265\n我必須說\n\n24:31.175 --> 24:48.241\n跟這個院長對話我就很肯定我會覺得你會繼續包容縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面這個逍遙罰罰。這不是個人包不包容縱容的問題是遵照一組做的行為但是法務部還要做到很多的安全的管控。所以你們有去查核這個\n\n24:49.381 --> 25:16.090\n這個我們跟委員報告其實我們就去都是會去訪視去查你們可以公開那個報告書嗎可以讓國人一起來檢驗檢視嗎好總之陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性的案件司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了\n\n25:17.311 --> 25:44.121\n接下來就看賴政府的表現了。希望不要讓人民失望,我們希望能夠司法正義能夠重新起死回生。接下來我再要談的就是兩岸議題。其實我想這段時間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的這個問題。那麼兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府他所要面對一個非常重要的一個政策。他不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關,跟經濟各方面都息息相關。\n\n25:46.042 --> 26:10.082\n院長在之前的記者會上也有說兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張兩岸關係是應該要互相堆疊善意而且要對等可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去的態度讓我也是很懷疑說你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎?我們已經恢復了團課已經確定了嗎?\n\n26:14.096 --> 26:19.078\n我先要講一下就是說你們說要釋出善意,你們到底有提出哪些善意方案?\n\n26:37.008 --> 26:53.249\n我們對於團客恢復就有團出去,我們對於教育部也有學衛生,我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相的交流。但是坦白說,因為我們現在看到,到底現在台灣對大陸還有釋出哪些善意?\n\n26:54.864 --> 26:54.884\n關委員﹗\n\n27:11.841 --> 27:23.809\n目前為止中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何……所以你們是開放的只是沒有他們沒有申請,所以一旦他們申請了你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎?如果定期航班還不行的話我們看看他們是不是有實際申請這個包船,我們會來考慮。\n\n27:36.949 --> 27:37.350\n我們歡迎中國大陸的採選團到我們這邊來。\n\n27:58.373 --> 28:06.806\n那相對於就是大陸他們那邊是蠻歡迎沒有對我們的這個商品有太多的限制這是一個對等嗎?\n\n28:06.806 --> 28:11.533\n有啊他們現在也違反WTO的精神是啊他們才限制的他們才不讓利了100多項\n\n28:13.255 --> 28:15.276\n報告委員我願意堆疊善意但是我很不願意看到他們無辜的軍演\n\n28:28.581 --> 28:31.783\n在指責別人之前要回頭看看自己的作為。\n\n28:58.701 --> 29:18.248\n最近也納入健保之前還有很多措施陸委會可以報告可是坦白說還不夠我知道但你們確實是有些進步了但是坦白說還不夠我們可以做到就將大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎讓他們也可以領獎學金讓他們也可以攻讀嗎請問可以做得到嗎\n\n29:25.823 --> 29:37.548\n為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢?為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠領我吳曉玲教授的研究計畫當研究計畫助理?他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理?不能領研究計畫的費用?\n\n29:39.369 --> 29:54.260\n總之,這個才有非常多的限制,包含兩岸的學術交流,教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格。\n\n29:55.629 --> 30:15.482\n我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。委員我們也做了很多權益的保障。我們是對於台灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎?委員應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障。這些保障都不應該被忽視。是,院長因為您才剛上任還不到一個月,所以我能夠體諒您這個已經釋出了\n\n30:18.464 --> 30:22.406\n我們也希望得到很多的善意。我們也希望得到很多的善意。\n\n30:47.449 --> 30:53.825\n所以你不希望你們能夠聰明施政而不是聰明施政嗎?\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.684,"end":20.466,"text":"好,有請院長。請卓院長背信。公務員好。是,院長好。您辛苦了。經過今天一整天的總質詢,"},{"start":35.572,"end":36.392,"text":"希望委員對憲法有期待就好。"},{"start":55.931,"end":84.207,"text":"是,我對於《憲法》有期待,我對於我們這次的國會改革方案有充足的信心。立法院前天才將三讀通過的條文送到行政院,然後行政院昨天就提出了復印案。我還記得您在上星期回答傅昆奇總召的時候,您說您對於這個法案一無所知,並不了解。可是呢,沒想到您是早就準備好要提出這個復印案了嗎?而且下定決心就是要提復印了嗎?"},{"start":84.79,"end":107.315,"text":"跟委員報告我沒有說我一無所知我說我要接到大院的來文之後因為兩院之間是有政治往來的形式的才能夠一一去比對從您當時的回答裡面會讓我覺得說您好像對於這個法案是一無所知那您才剛上任就提復議您不擔心這項復議案會帶來什麼樣的政治後座力嗎"},{"start":108.069,"end":136.532,"text":"委員是一個法學的專家應該知道行政院依照憲法賦予的權利跟責任去做的任何的這個行為都不要被解釋為是惡意吧否則憲法就不會這樣設計了是那當然就要看你們的憲法理由了對不對要看你們提出來的復議的理由那我想院長應該很清楚知道行政院在五權分立的憲政體制底下的角色與功能行政院是扮演什麼樣的角色"},{"start":142.181,"end":155.265,"text":"這次行政院所提出來的憲法徵修條文,依據憲法徵修條文提出的復議,可是憲法徵修條文提起復議的前提要件是法律案治案難行。"},{"start":156.57,"end":169.485,"text":"那這就讓本席感到很奇怪了。我們立法院職權行使法是在規範行政院的職權行使嗎?不是。不是。那可是我們再看看行政院的復議的理由,更讓我感到錯愕。"},{"start":171.425,"end":180.291,"text":"我無法認同這樣的講法。我想請教立法院職權行使法是規範立法委員的行使職權的權利義務以及程序。請問這跟行政院有什麼關係?"},{"start":201.015,"end":216.73,"text":"跟委員報告因為行使的過程當中不僅是部長官員人民、法人、部隊都可以進到這裡發生任何的權力義務關係只要跟任何一個國人相關的行政院都有責任義務來保護他"},{"start":224.339,"end":229.204,"text":"行政院是立法院的上級機關,你們有必要來監督指導立法院的立法程序嗎?"},{"start":229.204,"end":239.236,"text":"行政院不是立法院的上級機關。對,所以呢在你們昨天記者會上面,指指點點說我們的立法程序有瑕疵,我實在是不懂的,現在行政院是怎麼樣,你們已經要變成是大法官了嗎?"},{"start":239.775,"end":256.062,"text":"我不是指指點點,我們是依據事實提出我們的看法。接下來我要再說,行政院是總統府和監察院的代言人嗎?不是。不是。你們會幫總統寫國情報告書嗎?不會。不會。你們是要幫監察院捍衛他們的權利嗎?"},{"start":257.222,"end":259.404,"text":"我們是針對整部法律提出復議,不是單對哪一個特別的條文。"},{"start":278.619,"end":298.557,"text":"您們針對整部法律提出負責才叫做奇怪。那麼這一次刑法徵定官員說謊罪。我們的立法院職權刑事法徵修處罰官員亂回答反質詢無故缺席、拒絕答覆、拒絕提供資料隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆以及其他藐視國會的行為。這樣的規定會讓行政院感到至愛難行嗎?難道行政院"},{"start":304.402,"end":315.9,"text":"這個沒有辦法約束你們的行政官員們做不到做不到不說謊不缺席不提供資料不隱匿資訊嗎這些事情你們做不到嗎"},{"start":317.152,"end":341.202,"text":"報告委員我曾經說過說謊是任何一個政治工作者的人格自殺但是在委員剛剛所提到的這個條文當中充滿很多的法律不確定性跟比例原則是嗎所以呢在你們現在行政訴訟法、刑事訴訟法、民事訴訟法都有類似像這樣的規定公平教育法裡面也有類似這樣的規定這些都違憲是不是"},{"start":341.522,"end":355.22,"text":"我們來檢視一下請行政院這個回去要求法規會檢視一下現在我們的所有的法律裡面有多少的法律是規定、處罰、拒絕提供資料、隱匿資訊、虛偽答覆等等這些行為。"},{"start":359.224,"end":383.129,"text":"跟委員報告,如果有類似的行為是透過檢察官的起訴,但是大院並不是司法檢察官。我現在講的是行政機關處罰,請您回去看一看有多少的條文裡面是有這樣的規定。這邊我不再跟您爭執,因為這是事實的問題。這不用爭執,這是事實。行政院,好我要講,行政院提出這樣的復議事由個人以為、本席以為。"},{"start":384.05,"end":389.446,"text":"這不是與立法院進行一個良性、理性的憲政對話,而根本就是強詞奪理。"},{"start":392.048,"end":414.44,"text":"那麼,行政院看起來是有意想要挑起政治對抗。你們既不是這部法律的執行者,頂多就是受規範的關係人。到底有什麼好至愛難行?那麼這個是本席看到你們昨天所提出來的富裕的事由,我真的感到是荒謬至極。"},{"start":415.896,"end":418.879,"text":"好接下來我想請問好接下來我想要請教院長如果這項復議案不通過您會自行請辭嗎?早上我已經說過了依照政修條文第三條第二項第二款的規定"},{"start":438.564,"end":447.088,"text":"所以你會接受這個決議﹖是吧﹖所以你就會依據這個法律的規定去接受規範吧﹖所以你想要行使抵抗權嗎﹖這不是抵抗權﹖這是憲法賦予憲政機關的權利不是抵抗權﹖"},{"start":458.513,"end":485.538,"text":"是很好我希望您不要重蹈覆轍當時應該是在陳水扁時代提出了這個抵抗圈我就讓我覺得實在是莫名其妙他的憲法不曉得讀到哪裡去了基本上就是接受決議該怎麼做就怎麼做就像我講的立法院職權行使法這是規範我們立法院的這個最主要是規範立法院立法委員的行為以及他的這個職權行使那你們只是被規範如果說是"},{"start":486.058,"end":513.039,"text":"有剛剛我講的那些虛偽陳述不提供資料無故缺席的行為才有可能會受到處罰而且還有救濟途徑請記得還有救濟途徑那麼我現在想講的就是請問院長您才剛上來就已經提了一個復議案未來您還會繼續針對立法院所通過的法案但是民進黨黨團不支持的法案繼續提出復議案嗎"},{"start":514.09,"end":523.774,"text":"考慮的不是民進黨黨團支不支持,而是這個法案的本身是不是經過正當的程序、合理的討論以及被社會共識所接受。我們要討論實質的內容嗎?"},{"start":539.81,"end":555.799,"text":"我是現在講說你們有這樣打算嗎?還是還沒有開始討論?還沒有看到大院的來文。好,那麼簡單來說本席希望你們未來如果真的還要提起復議的話請要審慎的去思考你們復議的理由,是不是?"},{"start":557.403,"end":558.884,"text":"您將會在我國的民主憲政史上留下一個敢作不敢當的惡名。"},{"start":586.375,"end":597.802,"text":"我相信民眾會把明天成為一個只會玩政治手段、惡搞民主的行政院院長。接下來我要進入到能源正義的問題。關於核電的議題,最近其實大家很多的討論。"},{"start":606.556,"end":627.004,"text":"當然特別是正好有一位立委和媒體報導就是大陸最近5月23、24號正好在臺灣周圍進行軍事演習那時候就立委跟媒體爆料說沒有任何一艘天然船在臺灣停靠卸貨"},{"start":628.365,"end":646.042,"text":"當然後來中郵是有發布新聞說還是有兩艘天然氣船是有一計劃順利抵達臺灣並且卸貨。可是從這則新聞裡面就讓國人看到了臺灣如果沒有辦法能源自主會帶來什麼樣的危機。"},{"start":648.364,"end":664.337,"text":"那事實上已經有很多的國內外的這個專家學者和智庫都預測未來大陸極有可能會對台灣進行法律和軍事演習的封鎖也就是他們不採取武力的手段"},{"start":665.437,"end":666.537,"text":"請問院長您是否同意?"},{"start":685.848,"end":706.55,"text":"很謝謝委員跟我一樣我們很關切您剛剛所說的議題所以我們對中國片面的發動這樣的軍演我們是表示非常的不滿意的所以我們應該站在同一個立場再次指指下我們當然要強化自己的國防力量包括我們的能源政策但我們的能源政策我們在做很多的多元綠能"},{"start":708.412,"end":728.803,"text":"您可能又把我的題目又扯遠了,我只是在問說是不是認同我們要發展多元能源而且自主能源的這樣的一個方向。那麼我想請教郭部長,能源自主,最好的能源的選擇是什麼?"},{"start":731.283,"end":733.832,"text":"以未來業者所要用的就是綠能。"},{"start":738.663,"end":766.977,"text":"律能你認為它是一個最好的能源自主的一個選項?是。是。律能的發電效率以及在您現在這個行政院所規劃的能源比例裡面它只佔兩成。也就是說如果說是假設一個狀況中國持續軍演然後也是週休二日五天在我們旁邊軍演兩天休息它只要維持了42天以上"},{"start":768.183,"end":791.749,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":792.151,"end":814.863,"text":"對於民意,民意其實也是高度支持,我們應該要再繼續運用核能、核電。2018年的能源政策公投當中就清楚地顯示全台灣有高達800萬人是反對火力發電,有將近600萬人是支持核能發電的。那在最近還有一間就是全球知名的英國民間"},{"start":815.743,"end":816.483,"text":"﹚翁曉玲"},{"start":836.69,"end":863.397,"text":"不僅是這個民調機構對臺灣所做的這個調查現在其實我們看到其實國外有很多國家他們的核電廠也都在演繹英國、美國、法國、日本等等那麼也有一些國家已經開始推動所謂SMR就是小型的核反應器允許民間企業自主設置請問在這樣的一個全世界的核電時代的趨勢下以及"},{"start":863.997,"end":864.577,"text":"請問郭部長有哪個法請問"},{"start":893.51,"end":904.46,"text":"我們現在的法就是規定這個核能在﹐就是核子設施的管制法您的意思是這個嗎?就是它裡面這個要不要把法規延長是嗎?所以如果說這個法規延長的話您會同意繼續讓核電廠研議嗎?"},{"start":909.324,"end":923.336,"text":"我們會要看這個我們目前的這個核電廠是不是符合研議的條件。好我要講就是包含本席在內的幾位委員我們其實都已經提案要修法這個電業法"},{"start":925.217,"end":925.377,"text":"﹚翁曉玲"},{"start":955.608,"end":965.701,"text":"經濟部會不會同意讓臺電申請研議?會不會允許讓民間企業自己設置小型的盒子反應爐?"},{"start":968.237,"end":988.99,"text":"委員容許我跟委員報告一下,剛剛委員有提過一些民調的數字,我不敢否定這個民調的結果,但是我們如果把核能安全放下去做民調,把核廢料的處理放下去做民調,核廢料要放在哪裡,我相信數字會改變的,所以我們必須要正視這個問題。請問院長,您平常會看一些科學新聞嗎?"},{"start":990.359,"end":1017.277,"text":"您了解現在核能科技的發展嗎?我知道啊,小型核電跟核融合,但是有一句話……然後核能安全、核廢料的處理,您知道現在已經發展到什麼程度了嗎?為什麼全世界這麼多的國家都不會擔心核廢料的問題,而只有民進黨政府是最擔心核廢料的問題?我其實真的覺得,民進黨政府,你們的政治素養很高,但是科學素養低落。"},{"start":1017.984,"end":1034.036,"text":"我有一句話希望委員能夠同意就是未來核能的發展未來核能的發展應該解決不了我們今天所遇到的問題但是未來的問題未來再去解決那未來核能發展到現在還是相當長遠的時間希望你能尊重我的質詢權因為我的時間很寶貴那麼我想郭部長在來擔任經濟部長之前在業界這麼長一段時間大概非常知道整個企業界的需求以及也能夠"},{"start":1047.927,"end":1050.528,"text":"我強烈建議民進黨政府的官員們都應該要多去"},{"start":1071.216,"end":1096.101,"text":"讀一讀或是多去請一些科技專家你們來教一下你們的科技知識。好,那麼簡單來說我想我們幾個委員我們都已經幫行政院現在都鋪好法律之路。未來法律通過我們很希望不要辜負我們的美意。那麼請問部長您之後您會同意臺電申請研議嗎?"},{"start":1099.127,"end":1125.782,"text":"我們會看這個未來的這個環境是怎麼樣的,如果說我們確定他安全無虞,那麼這個廢核料可以處理,那麼對民眾大家可以接受的情況之下,我們會持續的來進行。好,如果不在的話那沒關係,我希望就是說河安會也要開始啟動,相關的法規是在河安會,"},{"start":1127.056,"end":1146.152,"text":"﹗"},{"start":1146.212,"end":1175.618,"text":"好 那麼最後本席要提在這個議題上面本席要提醒卓議員長和郭部長你們一個錯誤的決定會影響到臺灣的國安、經濟、民生、健康以及生態環境會造成不可恢復的損害只要有未來只要有任何發生任何全國大停電或者是重大的事故本席一定會強烈對你們苛責好 那接下來還有另外一個議題我們來談談司法正義吧"},{"start":1180.159,"end":1208.142,"text":"院長其實您是我的學長不可能那您是法律人出身我相信您應該很知道司法正義的重要性我相信您也認同法律之前人人平等這句話吧是可是很遺憾的在我這次閱讀您所提出來的行政院的施政報告裡面或是聆聽您口頭報告其實我沒有聽到您談司法正義這四個字之字未提"},{"start":1209.332,"end":1219.391,"text":"您沒有提是因為您擔心現在的民進黨政府根本做不到嗎?做不到法律之前人人平等,做不到公平正義嗎?"},{"start":1221.442,"end":1221.722,"text":"施政法人員"},{"start":1239.565,"end":1255.511,"text":"是不是會公平對待每一個人,而不是欺善怕惡,遇到權貴就轉彎。否則民眾不會再相信司法,也不會相信司法能夠主持正義,維持社會秩序和捍衛人民的權益。"},{"start":1256.491,"end":1283.265,"text":"可是很遺憾就是就算是司法院法務部做再多的司法改革司法人員做再多的努力都是枉然因為呢如果說沒有辦法做到法律之前人人平等的話會被認為這些不過就只是做做表面功夫打假球而已是無法取信於人民那麼也別期待人民會對於司法尊重和信賴"},{"start":1285.411,"end":1307.479,"text":"所謂一顆老鼠屎換了一鍋粥那目前司法界不知道有多少的老鼠屎但眾所周知最大的老鼠屎的案子而執法機關卻可以視而不見的大概就是受刑人陳水扁保外就醫長達9年的案子"},{"start":1308.882,"end":1333.287,"text":"一般民眾其實根本不了解為什麼一個可以在外面活蹦亂跳生龍活虎參加各種活動的而且享受充分高度自由富裕生活的受刑人可以不用回獄中受刑回獄中服刑到目前為止法務部還放任這樣的受刑人逍遊法外"},{"start":1336.055,"end":1356.474,"text":"跟委員說明,這個臺中監獄參著高雄長庚醫院的醫主希望能夠讓陳水扁前總統增加出遊、訪友、餐敘等等的職能治療活動。那在可控的範圍內﹖好,謝謝院長,這些我都了解,因為我之前都有去調過相關的,透過書面質詢也問過之前的法務部長,"},{"start":1360.898,"end":1383.073,"text":"那麼法務部其實就像剛剛院長講的說了一大堆不是理由的理由你們敢公佈陳水扁的醫療成員就醫報告、訪視報告嗎?你們窮盡一切的說法和方法去合理化陳水扁在監獄外的行為坦白說這就是司法最大的污點"},{"start":1384.844,"end":1401.113,"text":"那麼這種遇到阿典就轉彎的司法正義已經成為全世界最大的笑話。人民根本不會相信在民進黨執政之下還會有司法正義。從剛剛我跟院長的對談當中我就曉得"},{"start":1401.533,"end":1427.911,"text":"沒有把陳水扁當成是一個獸型人來看待你是把他當成一個前總統所以你們還會說是這個他的這個診療報告還要考慮到他的身心平衡他要去出遊去訪視去餐廳吃飯這是遵照醫主對這是醫主很好那請問院長如果說你們這麼尊重民間醫療機構的判斷那不如以後就把保外就醫的權利"},{"start":1428.772,"end":1447.717,"text":"就交給民間醫院去執行不是更好嗎那你們也不用監督查核花這麼多人力還要去做訪視找證書也可以不用負責任啊那未來受刑人很容易啊他只要買通了醫院然後寫了一個假的報告就可以逍遙法外永遠都不用回去坐牢"},{"start":1449.025,"end":1449.265,"text":"我必須說"},{"start":1471.175,"end":1488.241,"text":"跟這個院長對話我就很肯定我會覺得你會繼續包容縱容受刑人陳水扁在外面這個逍遙罰罰。 這不是個人包不包容縱容的問題是遵照一組做的行為但是法務部還要做到很多的安全的管控。 所以你們有去查核這個"},{"start":1489.381,"end":1516.09,"text":"這個我們跟委員報告其實我們就去都是會去訪視去查你們可以公開那個報告書嗎可以讓國人一起來檢驗檢視嗎好總之陳水扁的案子會是民眾檢驗政府是否有決心有能力捍衛司法正義的一個指標性的案件司法正義跟尊嚴已經在蔡政府執政底下玩完了"},{"start":1517.311,"end":1544.121,"text":"接下來就看賴政府的表現了。希望不要讓人民失望,我們希望能夠司法正義能夠重新起死回生。接下來我再要談的就是兩岸議題。其實我想這段時間大家都非常關心有關於兩岸的這個問題。那麼兩岸政策應該是接下來賴政府他所要面對一個非常重要的一個政策。他不僅僅只是跟國家安全有關,跟經濟各方面都息息相關。"},{"start":1546.042,"end":1570.082,"text":"院長在之前的記者會上也有說兩岸關係不應該日趨緊張兩岸關係是應該要互相堆疊善意而且要對等可是您最近好像又不肯鬆綁臺灣旅行業者組團到大陸去的態度讓我也是很懷疑說你們說要對大陸釋出善意是假訊息嗎?我們已經恢復了團課已經確定了嗎?"},{"start":1574.096,"end":1579.078,"text":"我先要講一下就是說你們說要釋出善意,你們到底有提出哪些善意方案?"},{"start":1597.008,"end":1613.249,"text":"我們對於團客恢復就有團出去,我們對於教育部也有學衛生,我們也希望雙邊能夠開放互相的交流。但是坦白說,因為我們現在看到,到底現在台灣對大陸還有釋出哪些善意?"},{"start":1614.864,"end":1614.884,"text":"關委員﹗"},{"start":1631.841,"end":1643.809,"text":"目前為止中國大陸並沒有申請平潭任何……所以你們是開放的只是沒有他們沒有申請,所以一旦他們申請了你們就會恢復客貨運通航嗎?如果定期航班還不行的話我們看看他們是不是有實際申請這個包船,我們會來考慮。"},{"start":1656.949,"end":1657.35,"text":"我們歡迎中國大陸的採選團到我們這邊來。"},{"start":1678.373,"end":1686.806,"text":"那相對於就是大陸他們那邊是蠻歡迎沒有對我們的這個商品有太多的限制這是一個對等嗎?"},{"start":1686.806,"end":1691.533,"text":"有啊他們現在也違反WTO的精神 是啊他們才限制的他們才不讓利了100多項"},{"start":1693.255,"end":1695.276,"text":"報告委員我願意堆疊善意但是我很不願意看到他們無辜的軍演"},{"start":1708.581,"end":1711.783,"text":"在指責別人之前要回頭看看自己的作為。"},{"start":1738.701,"end":1758.248,"text":"最近也納入健保之前還有很多措施陸委會可以報告可是坦白說還不夠我知道但你們確實是有些進步了但是坦白說還不夠我們可以做到就將大陸學生的權益直接比照外籍生嗎讓他們也可以領獎學金讓他們也可以攻讀嗎請問可以做得到嗎"},{"start":1765.823,"end":1777.548,"text":"為什麼不可以領中央政府的錢?為什麼我清華大學的指導學生不能夠領我吳曉玲教授的研究計畫當研究計畫助理?他為什麼不能當我研究計畫的助理?不能領研究計畫的費用?"},{"start":1779.369,"end":1794.26,"text":"總之,這個才有非常多的限制,包含兩岸的學術交流,教育部也是規定得非常的嚴格。"},{"start":1795.629,"end":1815.482,"text":"我不懂為什麼要這樣阻礙去妨礙兩岸的學術交流、教育交流。委員我們也做了很多權益的保障。我們是對於台灣的學生、老師這麼沒有信心嗎?委員應該看到我們也做了很多權益的保障。這些保障都不應該被忽視。是,院長因為您才剛上任還不到一個月,所以我能夠體諒您這個已經釋出了"},{"start":1818.464,"end":1822.406,"text":"我們也希望得到很多的善意。我們也希望得到很多的善意。"},{"start":1847.449,"end":1853.825,"text":"所以你不希望你們能夠聰明施政而不是聰明施政嗎?"}]}}}}