{"id":153780,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153780","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e2f35b9a306c7e319163a4d3464892865ba5cc7d50e447c5713150b0521439de9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"16:47:07 - 17:02:43","影片長度":"00:15:36","會議時間":"2024-06-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。 \n二、6月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月11日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-07","start_time":"2024-06-07T16:47:07+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-07T17:02:43+08:00","duration":936,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議","id":"院會-11-1-17","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1606,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（16時47分）謝謝主席，請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：卓院長好。我想還是先恭喜你榮任，當然也謝謝你的承擔。今天我想針對幾個議題跟卓院長來做一些討論跟請教，我們都看到這陣子有很多警消同仁離我們而去，大家都非常非常的悲傷，我知道其實行政院現在也一再地思考，怎麼針對我們警消的勞動條件能夠再做進一步的改善。院長，我想先請你看下一張投影片，院長，這是大法官釋字第785號，內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權，其中很重要的一段是，針對輪班輪休的人員，如果沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員服勤時數的合理上限的話，這其實是不符合憲法服公職權跟健康權保護的要求，這是大法官釋字第785號裡面的內容。所以我今天在總質詢一開始想跟院長討論，我們這很多公職人員在輪班、輪休制度下面加班的權益喔！當然，我今天可能先不討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情，但我想先讓院長知道一下，我們現在有很多，尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我陳情的這個狀況，院長，你是否同意加班多少時間就該紀錄多少時間，就該拿到相應的報酬或補休，院長，你同不同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：這應該是一個很正常的狀況。"],["洪委員申翰：很正常、很基本的想法嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["洪委員申翰：可是現在確實在我們的公職體系裡面，尤其是警消醫護，其實離這個狀況還有一段距離。我先讓院長瞭解一些實際的狀況，現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說，他們常常假如他加班了1個小時又50分鐘，在我們目前的差勤系統裡面，他只會被紀錄加班1個小時，有50分鐘不見了，為什麼50分鐘不見了？因為這50分鐘不滿1個小時，所以不管是加班30分鐘、40分鐘、50分鐘，甚至到55分鐘。在差勤系統裡面，這些時數都會消失不見，都會被吃掉，如果講一個更白的話，其實是會被吃掉的狀況，這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的狀況。針對這個問題其實很明顯，恐怕違背了剛剛我們說到的這個想法跟原則，就是你實際加班了多少時數，就應該如實的記錄多少時數。我們再往下看，針對這個問題，之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案，這部分要謝謝行政院。行政院人事行政總處在2023年8月29號的一份公文裡面很清楚寫到，有關加班未滿1小時或超過1小時之餘數得合併計算，所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班合併計算這樣的試辦方案，也就是儘量的要去補上我們剛剛講的之前這個漏洞。我用更簡單的話來說明，我今天可能加班了1個小時50分鐘，後天我可能多加班了30分鐘，這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併計算，不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了，就讓它消失不見。","但是我為什麼今天要在總質詢的時候來跟院長報告？因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題，我們現在按照我們要求人總、教育部、衛福部提供的相關資料做了一個計算，大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數，還是沒有加入剛剛我所說行政院之前推出的這個加班可以併計的系統，還是沒有。我在剛剛上一張所列出來的內容其實還沒有辦法把這八十幾個機關全部都寫上去，因為真的太多了，裡面包括警察局、消防局、醫院、療養院，這些都是公立的，都還是這個狀況。院長，你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果還有一些機關沒有辦法誠如剛剛委員所呈現的人總這個公文所寫的內容，那我會覺得很遺憾，我會請所有的部會首長就其所屬去深入地瞭解，如果有這樣的現狀，我們必須立刻依照剛剛人總所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定予以改善。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：報告委員，我補充一下，就是對於輪班輪休，我們從上一年8月29日開始開放輪班輪休可以以分鐘計算加班。"],["洪委員申翰：對。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：可是我們有兩個原則，第一個是採自願制，因為我們發現有一個很大的問題，就是很多警消單位現在的加班都是用簿子在記，都是紙本的，這個就是要因應這一次我們內閣……"],["洪委員申翰：人事長，我們要來說下面一件事情。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：要行動、要創新，所以如果它資訊化之後，這些都不是問題了。"],["洪委員申翰：人事長，我現在要說下面一張的問題，我們看到按照現在人總提供的資料，剛剛在警消醫護裡面，這些差勤系統居然還有52個還是靠紙本在記錄，說實話，我們現在是2024年，院長剛剛也說到，我們去了COMPUTEX，我們現在談了AI，我們現在談到包括行動要創新等等，可是居然在我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多單位是用紙本在記錄大家出缺勤的狀況、加班的狀況，甚至這個紙本的紀錄變成讓這些公務機關不願意或者是拒絕而沒有進入到剛才我說的加班餘數併計的狀況，我覺得這是要先做改革的事情，而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情，院長同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長能夠瞭解這個事實，做適度的改善。"],["劉部長世芳：我們來瞭解狀況以後再做改善。"],["洪委員申翰：這一份是人總提供給我們的資料，還有52個，我完全同意剛剛人事長所說的，這是前提，可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的，我們在現在這個資訊化的時代裡面，坦白說，我覺得這些事情是要最優先改善的，就算我們不談加班餘數併計的問題，也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題，改善了以後，當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘數併計問題，就不會再把我們警消、醫護、輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉。我跟院長報告，我們去計算一下，一個小夜班的護士在1個月的時間裡面可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失，大家可以算一下，其實對於這些基層人員的收入來說，這會是一個多大的損失，你也許不是給他加班費，也許是要他補休，但是總之，今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候，這就是權益明明白白的消失，所以院長，我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方，第一個是希望能夠推動全體警消醫護加班餘數併計，加班時數就該如實的紀錄，以符合大法官釋字第785號，完成差勤系統資訊化，這是第一個。第二個，將加班費、補休、增補人力的人事成本，希望可以做一個估算以後，納入114年的年度總預算，當然人事成本是需要支付的，這部分也希望我們一併把它納入。院長，這兩件事情可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們會來檢討改善。"],["洪委員申翰：好。院長，這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動，這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因，因為這不只是牽涉到一個部會，包括衛福部、包括教育部，甚至包括內政部都在這裡面，所以很需要院長大力來去推動，甚至來去鼓勵，這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["洪委員申翰：第二件事情，院長你是否同意，現在因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標？院長是不是同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：甚至我們希望把氣候變遷的因素變成一個契機，讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做澈底的轉型。"],["洪委員申翰：是，院長，在過去幾年，我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策，包括我們也修了氣候變遷因應法，但是我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法，確實還是存在著焦慮。第一個，比方說我們一些減碳的政策，有看到明確的棍子，但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確；第二個，其實大家也知道，過去8年的時間，我們透過前瞻基礎建設的特別預算，做了很多重要的投資，但我們也知道，接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕，所以大家也在問，更多資金活水投入的動能可能在哪裡？第三個，其實現在國際上開始在討論一個議題，就是關於所謂的綠色通膨，也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷的時候，可能會用到多一點的比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬，或用一些其他的原料，可能會讓原料上漲，或是因為高效率的設備，它的單價會比較高，所以可能會在消費上造成好像價格比較高的現象，一般大家會說這叫做綠色通膨，我們看到外界有這樣的焦慮存在。","院長，這是我們想要提出的，在這個焦慮之下，有沒有可能我們可以參考像美國在2020年的時候，他們其實就提出了相對應的法案，這個法案叫做降低通膨法案，其實看起來好像是處理通膨，但實際上它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案，它其實是一個財稅工具。","我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容，第一個，它是引導擴大投資氣候跟能源，也包括這裡面其實帶有一些稅制改革的部分在裡面，很重要的部分是，它其實是要提高綠色就業跟公正轉型。再來一點，它其實也在壯大本土的供應鏈，因為現在各國都遇到中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的侵襲，大家都覺得很擔憂，在這些內容裡面，把它設計到這個法案裡面，透過財稅的工具，希望能夠進一步讓美國因應氣候變遷，或者是本土的綠色就業能夠進一步的提升。","院長，我自己覺得這個法案，就美國的經驗來說，對應臺灣現在我們整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規系統，好像是滿有值得參考的地方。院長你覺得呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝洪委員在氣候變遷相關法案當中的努力，我們都看見了，持續這個問題，我想部長非常的瞭解，我們請部長來做說明。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個其實我們已經正在研議當中，包含了美國、日本，還有歐洲，委員你說得也非常清楚，我們的確在工具上現在還不夠，也謝謝委員這次的質詢，我們環境部也會成立一個綠色戰略辦公室專門來研議這個議題，但是這個也是跨部會的，我們跟國發會其實有一些互動，未來也會積極來瞭解這個事情。"],["洪委員申翰：當然這是一個跨部會的議題，這也是為什麼我今天想要在總質詢跟行政院提出來的一個原因。","其實我們看到現在美國的IRA成效，重點是成效好不好？我們現在看到，確實它帶動私人投資的金額非常非常高，甚至現在已經超過千億美元，而且它看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式，可是就總體來看，它增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了，所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的。最後它創造的就業機會非常多，其實目前已經創造將近20萬個就業機會，未來10年可能創造150萬個就業機會，所以這確實也不只是環境部自己的事情而已，這是為什麼今天我想要在這邊提出的原因。","我確實想要跟行政院討論或想提出來討論，有沒有可能請行政院研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案？我的意思是說，當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同，尤其是像稅率，或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同，所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA，就是降低通膨法案，也許我們可以用賦稅的手段，也許可以用利息的手段，或者是其他誘因的手段，來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能放進去？第一個，強化氣候的目標；第二個，也可以擴大淨零投資，來提高產業的競爭力，尤其是當我們現在政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來得拮据一點的時候，帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入；再來，也可以降低消費的通膨，尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費通膨，降低紅色供應鏈的威脅，擴大綠色就業與公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面，我們看他們把這些目標給放進去，好像做出了不錯的成果，當然，大家情境是有不同，大家處境是有不同，這一定要考慮，所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA，我覺得好像是時候做一些研議跟評估。但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會，包括財經部會、包括環境部，一起來討論這件事情，這甚至也跟財政部會有關係，所以，院長，這個部分應該是可以來做相對應的研議吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們請國發會來答復。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員。這的確是一個世界趨勢，跟委員報告一下，我們兩週前在環境部開過一個會。"],["洪委員申翰：是。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們請了美國負責IRA的一個專家。"],["洪委員申翰：是，他也有來我的辦公室。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例，包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例，效果都非常好，所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會再有會議針對這個IRA，我們做進一步的討論，然後我們希望儘快地讓它在臺灣實現。"],["洪委員申翰：你說的那位專家，他是來自澳洲，但他協助美國IRA的法案，他有來到我的辦公室。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是。"],["洪委員申翰：他有表達非常非常願意對臺灣相關的法案提出協助。所以我覺得如果我們有意願，至少現在來評估跟研議，我覺得一些國際上面的支持，或國際專業上面的支援，應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間。但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院，或者是相關部會，其實很清楚，這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔，在棍子以外重要的胡蘿蔔，我們往這個方向去，也提升我們氣候的目標，這需要院長跟相關部會一起來支持，可以嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們知道你在這個領域的專業，我們會持續向你請教。謝謝！"],["洪委員申翰：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝洪委員、謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長及各部會首長列席答詢；6月11日星期二上午9時繼續開會，進行質詢，現在休息。","休息（17時3分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-17","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","鄭天財Sra Kacaw"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-07"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135401_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153780","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153780","tool":"pyannote","id":"153780-pyannote"},"job_id":"CWlE2EQlKbPm2f4u","queued_at":"2024-06-07 17:43:26","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-07 17:43:26","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153780"},{"time":"2024-06-07 17:43:27","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e2f35b9a306c7e319163a4d3464892865ba5cc7d50e447c5717307c4a423e313cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-07 17:43:55","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-07 17:43:58","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-07 17:44:12","msg":"status: 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\"我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 543.225, \"end\": 543.566, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 543.566, \"end\": 543.826, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 543.826, \"end\": 544.266, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 544.266, \"end\": 544.586, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 544.586, \"end\": 544.766, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 544.766, \"end\": 544.966, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 544.966, \"end\": 545.567, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 545.567, \"end\": 545.767, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 545.767, \"end\": 545.907, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 545.907, 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{\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 565.119, \"end\": 565.32, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 565.32, \"end\": 565.66, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 565.66, \"end\": 566.14, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 566.14, \"end\": 566.26, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.26, \"end\": 566.72, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 566.72, \"end\": 566.921, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 566.921, \"end\": 567.321, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 567.321, \"end\": 567.961, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"瞻\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 567.961, \"end\": 568.181, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 568.181, \"end\": 568.602, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 568.602, \"end\": 568.722, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"特\", 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\"但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 572.344, \"end\": 572.684, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 572.684, \"end\": 572.864, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 572.864, \"end\": 572.984, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 572.984, \"end\": 573.125, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 573.125, \"end\": 573.365, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 573.365, \"end\": 573.545, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 573.545, \"end\": 574.025, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 574.025, \"end\": 574.265, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"恐\", \"start\": 574.265, \"end\": 574.465, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"怕\", \"start\": 574.465, \"end\": 574.666, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"特\", 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924.146, \"end\": 924.527, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 924.527, \"end\": 924.687, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 924.687, \"end\": 924.707, \"score\": 0.928}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,349 --> 00:00:12,050\n謝謝主席那請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好卓院長好我想還是先恭喜你容認當然也謝謝你的承擔那今天其實我針對幾個議題想要來跟卓院長這邊來做一些討論跟請教其實我們都看到這陣子其實有很多警消的同仁\n\n2\n00:00:37,619 --> 00:00:38,620\n我先請你看下一張投影片。\n\n3\n00:00:55,995 --> 00:01:23,192\n這個是我們大法官釋字785號那其實內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權那其中有一個很重要的一段是針對這個輪班輪休的人員那如果他沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員這個扶勤時數的合理上限的話這其實是不符合憲法這個扶公職權跟健康權的保護的要求這其實是大法官釋字785號裡面的內容\n\n4\n00:01:25,677 --> 00:01:52,615\n那所以我今天其實在這個總之學院一開始想跟院長討論我們這很多的公職的人員在輪班輪休制度下面的加班的權益當然我今天可能先不那麼先來討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情但我想先讓院長知道一下我們現在有很多尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我澄清的這個狀況院長你是否同意\n\n5\n00:01:54,161 --> 00:02:16,673\n加班多少時間就該記錄多少時間就該拿到相應的報酬跟補修。院長同不同意?這應該是一個很正常的狀況。很正常很基本的想法嘛對不對可是現在確實在我們的公職的體系裡面尤其是警校醫護其實離這個狀況還有一段距離喔。我先跟院長\n\n6\n00:02:18,058 --> 00:02:45,597\n讓院長瞭解現在一些實際的狀況現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說他們常常他加班了假如一個小時有50分鐘在我們目前的猜情的系統裡面他只會被記錄加班一個小時有50分鐘不見了為什麼50分鐘不見了因為這50分鐘不滿一個小時所以你不管是加班30分鐘40分鐘50分鐘甚至到55分鐘在猜情系統裡面\n\n7\n00:02:47,459 --> 00:03:10,034\n這些時數都會消失不見,都會被吃掉,如果講一個更白的話,其實是會被吃掉的狀況。這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的這個狀況。那針對這個問題其實很明顯,其實恐怕就違背了剛剛我們說到,其實你加班多少時數,就應該如實地記錄多少時數,剛剛我們這個想法跟原則。\n\n8\n00:03:11,223 --> 00:03:37,043\n好再往下其實針對這個問題之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案這部分要謝謝行政院行政院人事行政總署在2023年的8月29號的時候他一份公文裡面很清楚寫到有關加班未滿一小時或超過一小時之餘數可以得合併計算所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班\n\n9\n00:03:37,824 --> 00:03:45,968\n我今天可能加班50分鐘,一個小時後50分鐘,後天我可能多加班了30分鐘,這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併的來去做計算,不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了,就讓它消失不見。\n\n10\n00:04:01,716 --> 00:04:30,698\n但現在為什麼今天要在這個總質詢的時候來跟院長報告因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題我們現在看到按照我們來跟人總跟教育部衛福部來要求的這個相關的資料我們做了一個計算大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數還是沒有加入剛剛行政院推出的這個加班\n\n11\n00:04:31,397 --> 00:04:33,758\n所以院長你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變?\n\n12\n00:04:56,550 --> 00:05:15,571\n如果還有一些機關沒有辦法成如剛剛委員所呈現的人種所需要的一個內容,那我會覺得很遺憾。我會請所有的部會首長就你所屬去深入的了解,有這樣的現狀,我們必須立刻依照剛剛人種所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定,予以改善。\n\n13\n00:05:18,352 --> 00:05:41,117\n報告委員我想我補充一下就是說在論壇輪休我們從上一年8月29開始就是開放論壇輪休的他可以以分鐘計算加班可是他有一個我們有兩個原則第一個是採自驗資因為我們發現一個很大的問題就是說警消很多警消單位他現在的加班都用舖子在記\n\n14\n00:05:42,703 --> 00:05:51,068\n市長,我剛才說下面一件事情。市長,我等一下說下面,下面一張齁。我們現在看到按照現在人種提供的資料裡面齁,剛剛在警消醫護裡面這些差勤系統居然還有52個,他還是靠紙本在記錄。\n\n15\n00:06:10,011 --> 00:06:37,983\n我説實話,我們現在是2024年,院長剛才說到我們去了computex,我們現在談了AI,我們談到現在包括行動要創新等等等,我們居然我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多是用紙本在記錄大家的出缺勤的狀況,加班的狀況,現在甚至這個紙本的記錄變成是這些公務機關他不願意或者是他拒絕,他沒有進入到剛才說的加班餘宿並記的狀況,\n\n16\n00:06:39,464 --> 00:07:00,258\n我覺得這是先要做改革的事情,而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情,院長同意嗎?我請部長能夠了解這個事實,做適度的改善。我們來了解狀況以後要做改善。這一份是人總提供給我們的資料,就還有52個。就像剛剛我完全同意剛剛人事長說的,這是前提。可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的。\n\n17\n00:07:01,209 --> 00:07:24,284\n我們在現在的一個資訊化的資訊的時代裡面這件事情坦白說我覺得是最優先改善的就算我們不談加班餘宿病記的問題也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題改善了以後當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘宿的病記問題就不會有再把我們的警消醫護輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉我跟你講報告我們去計算一下\n\n18\n00:07:25,365 --> 00:07:50,259\n可能一個小夜班的護士在一個月的時間裡面他可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失大家可以算一下這其實對於我們這些精神人員的收入來說會是一個多大的損失你也許不是給他加班費也許要他補休但總之今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候這就是權益明明白白的消失所以院長我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方\n\n19\n00:07:50,979 --> 00:08:19,431\n第一個是希望能夠來推動全體的警消醫護這個加班餘數的併計加班時數就該如實的記錄拿來符合大法官釋憲785號完成猜情系統的資訊化這是第一個第二個將加班費補修增補人力的人事成本也希望可以做一個估算以後納入114年的年度的總預算因為這當然人事成本是需要支付的這部分也希望我們一併的把它納入讓這兩件事情\n\n20\n00:08:20,407 --> 00:08:21,591\n可以嗎?謝謝委員,我們會來檢討改善。\n\n21\n00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:51,449\n院長這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因因為這不是只是牽涉到一個部會包括衛福部包括教育部甚至包括內政部都在這裡面所以很需要院長的大力的來去推動甚至來去鼓勵這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情第二件事情院長你是否同意現在其實因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標院長是否同意\n\n22\n00:08:52,079 --> 00:08:59,944\n甚至我們希望把氣候變階的因素變成一個契機,讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做徹底的轉型。\n\n23\n00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:31,143\n我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資\n\n24\n00:09:32,344 --> 00:09:59,562\n但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高\n\n25\n00:10:17,028 --> 00:10:41,358\n有沒有可能我們可以參考其實像美國在2020年的時候他們其實就提出了相對應的這個法案這個法案它叫降低通膨法案其實看起來好像是處理通膨但它實際上面它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案它其實是一個財稅工具下面一張我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容\n\n26\n00:10:59,060 --> 00:11:24,742\n中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的清洗大家都覺得很擔憂在這些內容裡面他把他設計到這個法案裡面透過財稅的工具希望能夠進一步來讓美國因應氣候變遷或者是本土的綠色救援能夠加進一步的提升院長我自己覺得這個法案就美國的經驗來說對應台灣現在我們的整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規的系統\n\n27\n00:11:25,382 --> 00:11:47,618\n好像是蠻有值得參考的地方,院長你覺得?謝謝這個,洪委員在氣候變遷相關的法案當中的努力我們都看見了。那持續這個問題,我想部長非常的了解。好,我們請部長來做說明。報告委員,這個其實我們已經正在研議當中,包含了美國還有日本還有歐洲。那委員你說的也非常的清楚,我們的確\n\n28\n00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:53,944\n當然這是一個跨部會議這也是為什麼今天想要在總諮詢來跟行政院來提出來的一個原因下一張齁其實我們看到現在美國的這個IRA的成效\n\n29\n00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:36,173\n重點是成效好不好,我們現在看到確實他帶動的私人投資的金額非常非常高,甚至現在已經超過千億的美元。而且他看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式,可是就總體來看,他增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了。所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的,最後他創造的就業機會非常多。\n\n30\n00:12:55,247 --> 00:13:11,873\n請行政院來研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案。我的意思是說當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同尤其是像稅率或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同\n\n31\n00:13:12,313 --> 00:13:32,326\n所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA就降低通膨法案也許我們可以用賦稅的手段也許可以用利息的手段或者是其他誘因的手段來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能給放進去第一個強化氣候的目標第二個也可以擴大經營投資來提高產業的競爭力尤其是當我們現在在\n\n32\n00:13:33,667 --> 00:13:53,800\n政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來的拮据一點的時候來帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入。再來也可以降低消費的通膨,尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費的通膨。那降低紅色供應鏈的威脅,擴大綠色就業公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面,我們看到他把這些目標給放進去。\n\n33\n00:13:54,861 --> 00:14:21,838\n好像做出了不錯的成果當然大家情境是有不同大家處境是有不同這一定要考慮所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA我覺得好像是時候來去做一些研議跟評估但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會包括財經部會包括環境部一起來討論這件事情這甚至也跟財政部會有關係所以院長這個部分應該是可以來做\n\n34\n00:14:22,739 --> 00:14:23,239\n我們請國發會來先答覆。\n\n35\n00:14:38,191 --> 00:14:49,486\n他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例效果都非常好所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會議針對這個IRA我們做進一步的討論然後我們希望盡快的讓它在台灣實現\n\n36\n00:14:54,252 --> 00:15:18,995\n你說的那位專家他是來自澳洲但他協助美國的IA的法案他有來到我辦公室他有表達非常非常願意對台灣相關的法案來提出協助所以我覺得如果我們有意願至少至少現在來評估跟研議我覺得一些國際上面的支持或國際上面的專業上面的資源應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間的但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院或者是我們相關的部會其實很清楚\n\n37\n00:15:19,596 --> 00:15:24,707\n這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔在我們棍子以外的重要的胡蘿蔔我們往這個方向\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8349\t12050\t謝謝主席那請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好卓院長好我想還是先恭喜你容認當然也謝謝你的承擔那今天其實我針對幾個議題想要來跟卓院長這邊來做一些討論跟請教其實我們都看到這陣子其實有很多警消的同仁\n37619\t38620\t我先請你看下一張投影片。\n55995\t83192\t這個是我們大法官釋字785號那其實內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權那其中有一個很重要的一段是針對這個輪班輪休的人員那如果他沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員這個扶勤時數的合理上限的話這其實是不符合憲法這個扶公職權跟健康權的保護的要求這其實是大法官釋字785號裡面的內容\n85677\t112615\t那所以我今天其實在這個總之學院一開始想跟院長討論我們這很多的公職的人員在輪班輪休制度下面的加班的權益當然我今天可能先不那麼先來討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情但我想先讓院長知道一下我們現在有很多尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我澄清的這個狀況院長你是否同意\n114161\t136673\t加班多少時間就該記錄多少時間就該拿到相應的報酬跟補修。 院長同不同意?這應該是一個很正常的狀況。很正常很基本的想法嘛對不對可是現在確實在我們的公職的體系裡面尤其是警校醫護其實離這個狀況還有一段距離喔。 我先跟院長\n138058\t165597\t讓院長瞭解現在一些實際的狀況現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說他們常常他加班了假如一個小時有50分鐘在我們目前的猜情的系統裡面他只會被記錄加班一個小時有50分鐘不見了為什麼50分鐘不見了因為這50分鐘不滿一個小時所以你不管是加班30分鐘40分鐘50分鐘甚至到55分鐘在猜情系統裡面\n167459\t190034\t這些時數都會消失不見,都會被吃掉,如果講一個更白的話,其實是會被吃掉的狀況。這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的這個狀況。那針對這個問題其實很明顯,其實恐怕就違背了剛剛我們說到,其實你加班多少時數,就應該如實地記錄多少時數,剛剛我們這個想法跟原則。\n191223\t217043\t好再往下其實針對這個問題之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案這部分要謝謝行政院行政院人事行政總署在2023年的8月29號的時候他一份公文裡面很清楚寫到有關加班未滿一小時或超過一小時之餘數可以得合併計算所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班\n217824\t225968\t我今天可能加班50分鐘,一個小時後50分鐘,後天我可能多加班了30分鐘,這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併的來去做計算,不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了,就讓它消失不見。\n241716\t270698\t但現在為什麼今天要在這個總質詢的時候來跟院長報告因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題我們現在看到按照我們來跟人總跟教育部衛福部來要求的這個相關的資料我們做了一個計算大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數還是沒有加入剛剛行政院推出的這個加班\n271397\t273758\t所以院長你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變?\n296550\t315571\t如果還有一些機關沒有辦法成如剛剛委員所呈現的人種所需要的一個內容,那我會覺得很遺憾。我會請所有的部會首長就你所屬去深入的了解,有這樣的現狀,我們必須立刻依照剛剛人種所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定,予以改善。\n318352\t341117\t報告委員我想我補充一下就是說在論壇輪休我們從上一年8月29開始就是開放論壇輪休的他可以以分鐘計算加班可是他有一個我們有兩個原則第一個是採自驗資因為我們發現一個很大的問題就是說警消很多警消單位他現在的加班都用舖子在記\n342703\t351068\t市長,我剛才說下面一件事情。市長,我等一下說下面,下面一張齁。我們現在看到按照現在人種提供的資料裡面齁,剛剛在警消醫護裡面這些差勤系統居然還有52個,他還是靠紙本在記錄。\n370011\t397983\t我説實話,我們現在是2024年, 院長剛才說到我們去了computex,我們現在談了AI,我們談到現在包括行動要創新等等等,我們居然我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多是用紙本在記錄大家的出缺勤的狀況,加班的狀況,現在甚至這個紙本的記錄變成是這些公務機關他不願意或者是他拒絕,他沒有進入到剛才說的加班餘宿並記的狀況,\n399464\t420258\t我覺得這是先要做改革的事情,而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情,院長同意嗎?我請部長能夠了解這個事實,做適度的改善。我們來了解狀況以後要做改善。這一份是人總提供給我們的資料,就還有52個。就像剛剛我完全同意剛剛人事長說的,這是前提。可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的。\n421209\t444284\t我們在現在的一個資訊化的資訊的時代裡面這件事情坦白說我覺得是最優先改善的就算我們不談加班餘宿病記的問題也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題改善了以後當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘宿的病記問題就不會有再把我們的警消醫護輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉我跟你講報告我們去計算一下\n445365\t470259\t可能一個小夜班的護士在一個月的時間裡面他可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失大家可以算一下這其實對於我們這些精神人員的收入來說會是一個多大的損失你也許不是給他加班費也許要他補休但總之今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候這就是權益明明白白的消失所以院長我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方\n470979\t499431\t第一個是希望能夠來推動全體的警消醫護這個加班餘數的併計加班時數就該如實的記錄拿來符合大法官釋憲785號完成猜情系統的資訊化這是第一個第二個將加班費補修增補人力的人事成本也希望可以做一個估算以後納入114年的年度的總預算因為這當然人事成本是需要支付的這部分也希望我們一併的把它納入讓這兩件事情\n500407\t501591\t可以嗎?謝謝委員,我們會來檢討改善。\n504500\t531449\t院長這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因因為這不是只是牽涉到一個部會包括衛福部包括教育部甚至包括內政部都在這裡面所以很需要院長的大力的來去推動甚至來去鼓勵這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情第二件事情院長你是否同意現在其實因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標院長是否同意\n532079\t539944\t甚至我們希望把氣候變階的因素變成一個契機,讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做徹底的轉型。\n543225\t571143\t我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資\n572344\t599562\t但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高\n600503\t616408\t﹚議員﹚\n617028\t641358\t有沒有可能我們可以參考其實像美國在2020年的時候他們其實就提出了相對應的這個法案這個法案它叫降低通膨法案其實看起來好像是處理通膨但它實際上面它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案它其實是一個財稅工具下面一張我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容\n641698\t658780\t﹗\n659060\t684742\t中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的清洗大家都覺得很擔憂在這些內容裡面他把他設計到這個法案裡面透過財稅的工具希望能夠進一步來讓美國因應氣候變遷或者是本土的綠色救援能夠加進一步的提升院長我自己覺得這個法案就美國的經驗來說對應台灣現在我們的整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規的系統\n685382\t707618\t好像是蠻有值得參考的地方,院長你覺得?謝謝這個,洪委員在氣候變遷相關的法案當中的努力我們都看見了。那持續這個問題,我想部長非常的了解。好,我們請部長來做說明。報告委員,這個其實我們已經正在研議當中,包含了美國還有日本還有歐洲。那委員你說的也非常的清楚,我們的確\n708519\t713944\t當然這是一個跨部會議這也是為什麼今天想要在總諮詢來跟行政院來提出來的一個原因下一張齁其實我們看到現在美國的這個IRA的成效\n734600\t756173\t重點是成效好不好,我們現在看到確實他帶動的私人投資的金額非常非常高,甚至現在已經超過千億的美元。而且他看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式,可是就總體來看,他增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了。所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的,最後他創造的就業機會非常多。\n756493\t774787\t﹗\n775247\t791873\t請行政院來研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案。我的意思是說當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同尤其是像稅率或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同\n792313\t812326\t所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA就降低通膨法案也許我們可以用賦稅的手段也許可以用利息的手段或者是其他誘因的手段來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能給放進去第一個強化氣候的目標第二個也可以擴大經營投資來提高產業的競爭力尤其是當我們現在在\n813667\t833800\t政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來的拮据一點的時候來帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入。再來也可以降低消費的通膨,尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費的通膨。那降低紅色供應鏈的威脅,擴大綠色就業公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面,我們看到他把這些目標給放進去。\n834861\t861838\t好像做出了不錯的成果當然大家情境是有不同大家處境是有不同這一定要考慮所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA我覺得好像是時候來去做一些研議跟評估但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會包括財經部會包括環境部一起來討論這件事情這甚至也跟財政部會有關係所以院長這個部分應該是可以來做\n862739\t863239\t我們請國發會來先答覆。\n878191\t889486\t他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例效果都非常好所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會議針對這個IRA我們做進一步的討論然後我們希望盡快的讓它在台灣實現\n894252\t918995\t你說的那位專家他是來自澳洲但他協助美國的IA的法案他有來到我辦公室他有表達非常非常願意對台灣相關的法案來提出協助所以我覺得如果我們有意願至少至少現在來評估跟研議我覺得一些國際上面的支持或國際上面的專業上面的資源應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間的但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院或者是我們相關的部會其實很清楚\n919596\t924707\t這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔在我們棍子以外的重要的胡蘿蔔我們往這個方向\n","txt":"謝謝主席那請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好卓院長好我想還是先恭喜你容認當然也謝謝你的承擔那今天其實我針對幾個議題想要來跟卓院長這邊來做一些討論跟請教其實我們都看到這陣子其實有很多警消的同仁\n我先請你看下一張投影片。\n這個是我們大法官釋字785號那其實內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權那其中有一個很重要的一段是針對這個輪班輪休的人員那如果他沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員這個扶勤時數的合理上限的話這其實是不符合憲法這個扶公職權跟健康權的保護的要求這其實是大法官釋字785號裡面的內容\n那所以我今天其實在這個總之學院一開始想跟院長討論我們這很多的公職的人員在輪班輪休制度下面的加班的權益當然我今天可能先不那麼先來討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情但我想先讓院長知道一下我們現在有很多尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我澄清的這個狀況院長你是否同意\n加班多少時間就該記錄多少時間就該拿到相應的報酬跟補修。 院長同不同意?這應該是一個很正常的狀況。很正常很基本的想法嘛對不對可是現在確實在我們的公職的體系裡面尤其是警校醫護其實離這個狀況還有一段距離喔。 我先跟院長\n讓院長瞭解現在一些實際的狀況現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說他們常常他加班了假如一個小時有50分鐘在我們目前的猜情的系統裡面他只會被記錄加班一個小時有50分鐘不見了為什麼50分鐘不見了因為這50分鐘不滿一個小時所以你不管是加班30分鐘40分鐘50分鐘甚至到55分鐘在猜情系統裡面\n這些時數都會消失不見,都會被吃掉,如果講一個更白的話,其實是會被吃掉的狀況。這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的這個狀況。那針對這個問題其實很明顯,其實恐怕就違背了剛剛我們說到,其實你加班多少時數,就應該如實地記錄多少時數,剛剛我們這個想法跟原則。\n好再往下其實針對這個問題之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案這部分要謝謝行政院行政院人事行政總署在2023年的8月29號的時候他一份公文裡面很清楚寫到有關加班未滿一小時或超過一小時之餘數可以得合併計算所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班\n我今天可能加班50分鐘,一個小時後50分鐘,後天我可能多加班了30分鐘,這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併的來去做計算,不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了,就讓它消失不見。\n但現在為什麼今天要在這個總質詢的時候來跟院長報告因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題我們現在看到按照我們來跟人總跟教育部衛福部來要求的這個相關的資料我們做了一個計算大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數還是沒有加入剛剛行政院推出的這個加班\n所以院長你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變?\n如果還有一些機關沒有辦法成如剛剛委員所呈現的人種所需要的一個內容,那我會覺得很遺憾。我會請所有的部會首長就你所屬去深入的了解,有這樣的現狀,我們必須立刻依照剛剛人種所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定,予以改善。\n報告委員我想我補充一下就是說在論壇輪休我們從上一年8月29開始就是開放論壇輪休的他可以以分鐘計算加班可是他有一個我們有兩個原則第一個是採自驗資因為我們發現一個很大的問題就是說警消很多警消單位他現在的加班都用舖子在記\n市長,我剛才說下面一件事情。市長,我等一下說下面,下面一張齁。我們現在看到按照現在人種提供的資料裡面齁,剛剛在警消醫護裡面這些差勤系統居然還有52個,他還是靠紙本在記錄。\n我説實話,我們現在是2024年, 院長剛才說到我們去了computex,我們現在談了AI,我們談到現在包括行動要創新等等等,我們居然我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多是用紙本在記錄大家的出缺勤的狀況,加班的狀況,現在甚至這個紙本的記錄變成是這些公務機關他不願意或者是他拒絕,他沒有進入到剛才說的加班餘宿並記的狀況,\n我覺得這是先要做改革的事情,而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情,院長同意嗎?我請部長能夠了解這個事實,做適度的改善。我們來了解狀況以後要做改善。這一份是人總提供給我們的資料,就還有52個。就像剛剛我完全同意剛剛人事長說的,這是前提。可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的。\n我們在現在的一個資訊化的資訊的時代裡面這件事情坦白說我覺得是最優先改善的就算我們不談加班餘宿病記的問題也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題改善了以後當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘宿的病記問題就不會有再把我們的警消醫護輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉我跟你講報告我們去計算一下\n可能一個小夜班的護士在一個月的時間裡面他可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失大家可以算一下這其實對於我們這些精神人員的收入來說會是一個多大的損失你也許不是給他加班費也許要他補休但總之今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候這就是權益明明白白的消失所以院長我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方\n第一個是希望能夠來推動全體的警消醫護這個加班餘數的併計加班時數就該如實的記錄拿來符合大法官釋憲785號完成猜情系統的資訊化這是第一個第二個將加班費補修增補人力的人事成本也希望可以做一個估算以後納入114年的年度的總預算因為這當然人事成本是需要支付的這部分也希望我們一併的把它納入讓這兩件事情\n可以嗎?謝謝委員,我們會來檢討改善。\n院長這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因因為這不是只是牽涉到一個部會包括衛福部包括教育部甚至包括內政部都在這裡面所以很需要院長的大力的來去推動甚至來去鼓勵這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情第二件事情院長你是否同意現在其實因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標院長是否同意\n甚至我們希望把氣候變階的因素變成一個契機,讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做徹底的轉型。\n我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資\n但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高\n﹚議員﹚\n有沒有可能我們可以參考其實像美國在2020年的時候他們其實就提出了相對應的這個法案這個法案它叫降低通膨法案其實看起來好像是處理通膨但它實際上面它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案它其實是一個財稅工具下面一張我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容\n﹗\n中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的清洗大家都覺得很擔憂在這些內容裡面他把他設計到這個法案裡面透過財稅的工具希望能夠進一步來讓美國因應氣候變遷或者是本土的綠色救援能夠加進一步的提升院長我自己覺得這個法案就美國的經驗來說對應台灣現在我們的整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規的系統\n好像是蠻有值得參考的地方,院長你覺得?謝謝這個,洪委員在氣候變遷相關的法案當中的努力我們都看見了。那持續這個問題,我想部長非常的了解。好,我們請部長來做說明。報告委員,這個其實我們已經正在研議當中,包含了美國還有日本還有歐洲。那委員你說的也非常的清楚,我們的確\n當然這是一個跨部會議這也是為什麼今天想要在總諮詢來跟行政院來提出來的一個原因下一張齁其實我們看到現在美國的這個IRA的成效\n重點是成效好不好,我們現在看到確實他帶動的私人投資的金額非常非常高,甚至現在已經超過千億的美元。而且他看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式,可是就總體來看,他增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了。所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的,最後他創造的就業機會非常多。\n﹗\n請行政院來研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案。我的意思是說當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同尤其是像稅率或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同\n所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA就降低通膨法案也許我們可以用賦稅的手段也許可以用利息的手段或者是其他誘因的手段來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能給放進去第一個強化氣候的目標第二個也可以擴大經營投資來提高產業的競爭力尤其是當我們現在在\n政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來的拮据一點的時候來帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入。再來也可以降低消費的通膨,尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費的通膨。那降低紅色供應鏈的威脅,擴大綠色就業公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面,我們看到他把這些目標給放進去。\n好像做出了不錯的成果當然大家情境是有不同大家處境是有不同這一定要考慮所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA我覺得好像是時候來去做一些研議跟評估但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會包括財經部會包括環境部一起來討論這件事情這甚至也跟財政部會有關係所以院長這個部分應該是可以來做\n我們請國發會來先答覆。\n他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例效果都非常好所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會議針對這個IRA我們做進一步的討論然後我們希望盡快的讓它在台灣實現\n你說的那位專家他是來自澳洲但他協助美國的IA的法案他有來到我辦公室他有表達非常非常願意對台灣相關的法案來提出協助所以我覺得如果我們有意願至少至少現在來評估跟研議我覺得一些國際上面的支持或國際上面的專業上面的資源應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間的但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院或者是我們相關的部會其實很清楚\n這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔在我們棍子以外的重要的胡蘿蔔我們往這個方向\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.349 --> 00:12.050\n謝謝主席那請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好卓院長好我想還是先恭喜你容認當然也謝謝你的承擔那今天其實我針對幾個議題想要來跟卓院長這邊來做一些討論跟請教其實我們都看到這陣子其實有很多警消的同仁\n\n00:37.619 --> 00:38.620\n我先請你看下一張投影片。\n\n00:55.995 --> 01:23.192\n這個是我們大法官釋字785號那其實內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權那其中有一個很重要的一段是針對這個輪班輪休的人員那如果他沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員這個扶勤時數的合理上限的話這其實是不符合憲法這個扶公職權跟健康權的保護的要求這其實是大法官釋字785號裡面的內容\n\n01:25.677 --> 01:52.615\n那所以我今天其實在這個總之學院一開始想跟院長討論我們這很多的公職的人員在輪班輪休制度下面的加班的權益當然我今天可能先不那麼先來討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情但我想先讓院長知道一下我們現在有很多尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我澄清的這個狀況院長你是否同意\n\n01:54.161 --> 02:16.673\n加班多少時間就該記錄多少時間就該拿到相應的報酬跟補修。院長同不同意?這應該是一個很正常的狀況。很正常很基本的想法嘛對不對可是現在確實在我們的公職的體系裡面尤其是警校醫護其實離這個狀況還有一段距離喔。我先跟院長\n\n02:18.058 --> 02:45.597\n讓院長瞭解現在一些實際的狀況現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說他們常常他加班了假如一個小時有50分鐘在我們目前的猜情的系統裡面他只會被記錄加班一個小時有50分鐘不見了為什麼50分鐘不見了因為這50分鐘不滿一個小時所以你不管是加班30分鐘40分鐘50分鐘甚至到55分鐘在猜情系統裡面\n\n02:47.459 --> 03:10.034\n這些時數都會消失不見,都會被吃掉,如果講一個更白的話,其實是會被吃掉的狀況。這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的這個狀況。那針對這個問題其實很明顯,其實恐怕就違背了剛剛我們說到,其實你加班多少時數,就應該如實地記錄多少時數,剛剛我們這個想法跟原則。\n\n03:11.223 --> 03:37.043\n好再往下其實針對這個問題之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案這部分要謝謝行政院行政院人事行政總署在2023年的8月29號的時候他一份公文裡面很清楚寫到有關加班未滿一小時或超過一小時之餘數可以得合併計算所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班\n\n03:37.824 --> 03:45.968\n我今天可能加班50分鐘,一個小時後50分鐘,後天我可能多加班了30分鐘,這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併的來去做計算,不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了,就讓它消失不見。\n\n04:01.716 --> 04:30.698\n但現在為什麼今天要在這個總質詢的時候來跟院長報告因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題我們現在看到按照我們來跟人總跟教育部衛福部來要求的這個相關的資料我們做了一個計算大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數還是沒有加入剛剛行政院推出的這個加班\n\n04:31.397 --> 04:33.758\n所以院長你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變?\n\n04:56.550 --> 05:15.571\n如果還有一些機關沒有辦法成如剛剛委員所呈現的人種所需要的一個內容,那我會覺得很遺憾。我會請所有的部會首長就你所屬去深入的了解,有這樣的現狀,我們必須立刻依照剛剛人種所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定,予以改善。\n\n05:18.352 --> 05:41.117\n報告委員我想我補充一下就是說在論壇輪休我們從上一年8月29開始就是開放論壇輪休的他可以以分鐘計算加班可是他有一個我們有兩個原則第一個是採自驗資因為我們發現一個很大的問題就是說警消很多警消單位他現在的加班都用舖子在記\n\n05:42.703 --> 05:51.068\n市長,我剛才說下面一件事情。市長,我等一下說下面,下面一張齁。我們現在看到按照現在人種提供的資料裡面齁,剛剛在警消醫護裡面這些差勤系統居然還有52個,他還是靠紙本在記錄。\n\n06:10.011 --> 06:37.983\n我説實話,我們現在是2024年,院長剛才說到我們去了computex,我們現在談了AI,我們談到現在包括行動要創新等等等,我們居然我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多是用紙本在記錄大家的出缺勤的狀況,加班的狀況,現在甚至這個紙本的記錄變成是這些公務機關他不願意或者是他拒絕,他沒有進入到剛才說的加班餘宿並記的狀況,\n\n06:39.464 --> 07:00.258\n我覺得這是先要做改革的事情,而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情,院長同意嗎?我請部長能夠了解這個事實,做適度的改善。我們來了解狀況以後要做改善。這一份是人總提供給我們的資料,就還有52個。就像剛剛我完全同意剛剛人事長說的,這是前提。可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的。\n\n07:01.209 --> 07:24.284\n我們在現在的一個資訊化的資訊的時代裡面這件事情坦白說我覺得是最優先改善的就算我們不談加班餘宿病記的問題也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題改善了以後當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘宿的病記問題就不會有再把我們的警消醫護輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉我跟你講報告我們去計算一下\n\n07:25.365 --> 07:50.259\n可能一個小夜班的護士在一個月的時間裡面他可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失大家可以算一下這其實對於我們這些精神人員的收入來說會是一個多大的損失你也許不是給他加班費也許要他補休但總之今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候這就是權益明明白白的消失所以院長我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方\n\n07:50.979 --> 08:19.431\n第一個是希望能夠來推動全體的警消醫護這個加班餘數的併計加班時數就該如實的記錄拿來符合大法官釋憲785號完成猜情系統的資訊化這是第一個第二個將加班費補修增補人力的人事成本也希望可以做一個估算以後納入114年的年度的總預算因為這當然人事成本是需要支付的這部分也希望我們一併的把它納入讓這兩件事情\n\n08:20.407 --> 08:21.591\n可以嗎?謝謝委員,我們會來檢討改善。\n\n08:24.500 --> 08:51.449\n院長這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因因為這不是只是牽涉到一個部會包括衛福部包括教育部甚至包括內政部都在這裡面所以很需要院長的大力的來去推動甚至來去鼓勵這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情第二件事情院長你是否同意現在其實因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標院長是否同意\n\n08:52.079 --> 08:59.944\n甚至我們希望把氣候變階的因素變成一個契機,讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做徹底的轉型。\n\n09:03.225 --> 09:31.143\n我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資\n\n09:32.344 --> 09:59.562\n但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高\n\n10:17.028 --> 10:41.358\n有沒有可能我們可以參考其實像美國在2020年的時候他們其實就提出了相對應的這個法案這個法案它叫降低通膨法案其實看起來好像是處理通膨但它實際上面它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案它其實是一個財稅工具下面一張我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容\n\n10:59.060 --> 11:24.742\n中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的清洗大家都覺得很擔憂在這些內容裡面他把他設計到這個法案裡面透過財稅的工具希望能夠進一步來讓美國因應氣候變遷或者是本土的綠色救援能夠加進一步的提升院長我自己覺得這個法案就美國的經驗來說對應台灣現在我們的整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規的系統\n\n11:25.382 --> 11:47.618\n好像是蠻有值得參考的地方,院長你覺得?謝謝這個,洪委員在氣候變遷相關的法案當中的努力我們都看見了。那持續這個問題,我想部長非常的了解。好,我們請部長來做說明。報告委員,這個其實我們已經正在研議當中,包含了美國還有日本還有歐洲。那委員你說的也非常的清楚,我們的確\n\n11:48.519 --> 11:53.944\n當然這是一個跨部會議這也是為什麼今天想要在總諮詢來跟行政院來提出來的一個原因下一張齁其實我們看到現在美國的這個IRA的成效\n\n12:14.600 --> 12:36.173\n重點是成效好不好,我們現在看到確實他帶動的私人投資的金額非常非常高,甚至現在已經超過千億的美元。而且他看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式,可是就總體來看,他增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了。所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的,最後他創造的就業機會非常多。\n\n12:55.247 --> 13:11.873\n請行政院來研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案。我的意思是說當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同尤其是像稅率或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同\n\n13:12.313 --> 13:32.326\n所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA就降低通膨法案也許我們可以用賦稅的手段也許可以用利息的手段或者是其他誘因的手段來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能給放進去第一個強化氣候的目標第二個也可以擴大經營投資來提高產業的競爭力尤其是當我們現在在\n\n13:33.667 --> 13:53.800\n政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來的拮据一點的時候來帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入。再來也可以降低消費的通膨,尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費的通膨。那降低紅色供應鏈的威脅,擴大綠色就業公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面,我們看到他把這些目標給放進去。\n\n13:54.861 --> 14:21.838\n好像做出了不錯的成果當然大家情境是有不同大家處境是有不同這一定要考慮所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA我覺得好像是時候來去做一些研議跟評估但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會包括財經部會包括環境部一起來討論這件事情這甚至也跟財政部會有關係所以院長這個部分應該是可以來做\n\n14:22.739 --> 14:23.239\n我們請國發會來先答覆。\n\n14:38.191 --> 14:49.486\n他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例效果都非常好所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會議針對這個IRA我們做進一步的討論然後我們希望盡快的讓它在台灣實現\n\n14:54.252 --> 15:18.995\n你說的那位專家他是來自澳洲但他協助美國的IA的法案他有來到我辦公室他有表達非常非常願意對台灣相關的法案來提出協助所以我覺得如果我們有意願至少至少現在來評估跟研議我覺得一些國際上面的支持或國際上面的專業上面的資源應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間的但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院或者是我們相關的部會其實很清楚\n\n15:19.596 --> 15:24.707\n這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔在我們棍子以外的重要的胡蘿蔔我們往這個方向\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.349,"end":12.05,"text":"謝謝主席那請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好卓院長好我想還是先恭喜你容認當然也謝謝你的承擔那今天其實我針對幾個議題想要來跟卓院長這邊來做一些討論跟請教其實我們都看到這陣子其實有很多警消的同仁"},{"start":37.619,"end":38.62,"text":"我先請你看下一張投影片。"},{"start":55.995,"end":83.192,"text":"這個是我們大法官釋字785號那其實內容當然就是希望保障公職人員的健康權那其中有一個很重要的一段是針對這個輪班輪休的人員那如果他沒有設定任何關於其所屬公務員這個扶勤時數的合理上限的話這其實是不符合憲法這個扶公職權跟健康權的保護的要求這其實是大法官釋字785號裡面的內容"},{"start":85.677,"end":112.615,"text":"那所以我今天其實在這個總之學院一開始想跟院長討論我們這很多的公職的人員在輪班輪休制度下面的加班的權益當然我今天可能先不那麼先來討論所謂要怎麼降低加班時數這件事情但我想先讓院長知道一下我們現在有很多尤其是警消醫護他們來跟我澄清的這個狀況院長你是否同意"},{"start":114.161,"end":136.673,"text":"加班多少時間就該記錄多少時間就該拿到相應的報酬跟補修。 院長同不同意?這應該是一個很正常的狀況。很正常很基本的想法嘛對不對可是現在確實在我們的公職的體系裡面尤其是警校醫護其實離這個狀況還有一段距離喔。 我先跟院長"},{"start":138.058,"end":165.597,"text":"讓院長瞭解現在一些實際的狀況現在還有很多警消醫護跟我們說他們常常他加班了假如一個小時有50分鐘在我們目前的猜情的系統裡面他只會被記錄加班一個小時有50分鐘不見了為什麼50分鐘不見了因為這50分鐘不滿一個小時所以你不管是加班30分鐘40分鐘50分鐘甚至到55分鐘在猜情系統裡面"},{"start":167.459,"end":190.034,"text":"這些時數都會消失不見,都會被吃掉,如果講一個更白的話,其實是會被吃掉的狀況。這是現在警消醫護在跟我們反映的這個狀況。那針對這個問題其實很明顯,其實恐怕就違背了剛剛我們說到,其實你加班多少時數,就應該如實地記錄多少時數,剛剛我們這個想法跟原則。"},{"start":191.223,"end":217.043,"text":"好再往下其實針對這個問題之前行政院其實有提出了一些解方跟答案這部分要謝謝行政院行政院人事行政總署在2023年的8月29號的時候他一份公文裡面很清楚寫到有關加班未滿一小時或超過一小時之餘數可以得合併計算所以他們其實提出了一個輪班輪休人員加班"},{"start":217.824,"end":225.968,"text":"我今天可能加班50分鐘,一個小時後50分鐘,後天我可能多加班了30分鐘,這個50分鐘跟30分鐘其實就可以合併的來去做計算,不會各自把這個餘數就直接切掉了,就讓它消失不見。"},{"start":241.716,"end":270.698,"text":"但現在為什麼今天要在這個總質詢的時候來跟院長報告因為這確實牽涉到很多跨部會的問題我們現在看到按照我們來跟人總跟教育部衛福部來要求的這個相關的資料我們做了一個計算大概還有81個警消醫護的機關目前加班還是沒有如實計數還是沒有加入剛剛行政院推出的這個加班"},{"start":271.397,"end":273.758,"text":"所以院長你覺得這個狀況是不是應該要有所改變?"},{"start":296.55,"end":315.571,"text":"如果還有一些機關沒有辦法成如剛剛委員所呈現的人種所需要的一個內容,那我會覺得很遺憾。我會請所有的部會首長就你所屬去深入的了解,有這樣的現狀,我們必須立刻依照剛剛人種所呈現的那個文字、那個內容、那個規定,予以改善。"},{"start":318.352,"end":341.117,"text":"報告委員我想我補充一下就是說在論壇輪休我們從上一年8月29開始就是開放論壇輪休的他可以以分鐘計算加班可是他有一個我們有兩個原則第一個是採自驗資因為我們發現一個很大的問題就是說警消很多警消單位他現在的加班都用舖子在記"},{"start":342.703,"end":351.068,"text":"市長,我剛才說下面一件事情。市長,我等一下說下面,下面一張齁。我們現在看到按照現在人種提供的資料裡面齁,剛剛在警消醫護裡面這些差勤系統居然還有52個,他還是靠紙本在記錄。"},{"start":370.011,"end":397.983,"text":"我説實話,我們現在是2024年, 院長剛才說到我們去了computex,我們現在談了AI,我們談到現在包括行動要創新等等等,我們居然我們的公務體系裡面還有這麼多是用紙本在記錄大家的出缺勤的狀況,加班的狀況,現在甚至這個紙本的記錄變成是這些公務機關他不願意或者是他拒絕,他沒有進入到剛才說的加班餘宿並記的狀況,"},{"start":399.464,"end":420.258,"text":"我覺得這是先要做改革的事情,而且我也覺得這是一個最基本的事情,院長同意嗎?我請部長能夠了解這個事實,做適度的改善。我們來了解狀況以後要做改善。這一份是人總提供給我們的資料,就還有52個。就像剛剛我完全同意剛剛人事長說的,這是前提。可是這個前提我覺得是最基本的。"},{"start":421.209,"end":444.284,"text":"我們在現在的一個資訊化的資訊的時代裡面這件事情坦白說我覺得是最優先改善的就算我們不談加班餘宿病記的問題也早該幫我們的基層人員來改善這個問題改善了以後當然我們就可以來實施剛剛說的加班餘宿的病記問題就不會有再把我們的警消醫護輪班輪休人員的加班時數給吃掉我跟你講報告我們去計算一下"},{"start":445.365,"end":470.259,"text":"可能一個小夜班的護士在一個月的時間裡面他可能會有將近10個小時的加班時數因為這個原因消失大家可以算一下這其實對於我們這些精神人員的收入來說會是一個多大的損失你也許不是給他加班費也許要他補休但總之今天當你沒有辦法如實記錄的時候這就是權益明明白白的消失所以院長我有兩個想要懇請院長的地方"},{"start":470.979,"end":499.431,"text":"第一個是希望能夠來推動全體的警消醫護這個加班餘數的併計加班時數就該如實的記錄拿來符合大法官釋憲785號完成猜情系統的資訊化這是第一個第二個將加班費補修增補人力的人事成本也希望可以做一個估算以後納入114年的年度的總預算因為這當然人事成本是需要支付的這部分也希望我們一併的把它納入讓這兩件事情"},{"start":500.407,"end":501.591,"text":"可以嗎?謝謝委員,我們會來檢討改善。"},{"start":504.5,"end":531.449,"text":"院長這部分希望行政院可以來全力推動這也是為什麼今天在這邊談的原因因為這不是只是牽涉到一個部會包括衛福部包括教育部甚至包括內政部都在這裡面所以很需要院長的大力的來去推動甚至來去鼓勵這是今天跟院長談的第一件事情第二件事情院長你是否同意現在其實因應氣候變遷的能力已經成為一國經濟力非常非常關鍵的指標院長是否同意"},{"start":532.079,"end":539.944,"text":"甚至我們希望把氣候變階的因素變成一個契機,讓整個產業、整個科技跟國家能夠做徹底的轉型。"},{"start":543.225,"end":571.143,"text":"我們當然在過去幾年我們其實推出了很多相關的氣候政策包括我們也修了我們氣候變遷因應法但是確實我們現在收集外界對我們氣候政策的看法他確實還是存在著焦慮第一個比方說看到我們其實一些簡單的政策看到明確的棍子但胡蘿蔔好像相對沒這麼明確第二個其實大家也知道我們過去8年的時間我們透過前瞻基礎院的特別預算做了很多重要的投資"},{"start":572.344,"end":599.562,"text":"但我們也知道接下來幾年恐怕特別預算不會像過去這麼充裕所以大家也在問那更多的資金活水的投入的動能可能在哪裡第三個其實現在國際上面開始在討論一個議題也關於所謂的綠色通膨也就是當我們在因應氣候變遷之後可能會用到多一點的某些比方說再生能源會用到一些金屬或用一些其他的原料可能會讓原料的上漲或是因為高效率的設備它的單價會比較高"},{"start":600.503,"end":616.408,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":617.028,"end":641.358,"text":"有沒有可能我們可以參考其實像美國在2020年的時候他們其實就提出了相對應的這個法案這個法案它叫降低通膨法案其實看起來好像是處理通膨但它實際上面它是美國有史以來最大的氣候跟能源支出的法案它其實是一個財稅工具下面一張我大概跟院長簡述一下這個法案的內容"},{"start":641.698,"end":658.78,"text":"﹗"},{"start":659.06,"end":684.742,"text":"中國廉價的紅色供應鏈這樣子的清洗大家都覺得很擔憂在這些內容裡面他把他設計到這個法案裡面透過財稅的工具希望能夠進一步來讓美國因應氣候變遷或者是本土的綠色救援能夠加進一步的提升院長我自己覺得這個法案就美國的經驗來說對應台灣現在我們的整體的氣候政策跟我們現在的法規的系統"},{"start":685.382,"end":707.618,"text":"好像是蠻有值得參考的地方,院長你覺得?謝謝這個,洪委員在氣候變遷相關的法案當中的努力我們都看見了。那持續這個問題,我想部長非常的了解。好,我們請部長來做說明。報告委員,這個其實我們已經正在研議當中,包含了美國還有日本還有歐洲。那委員你說的也非常的清楚,我們的確"},{"start":708.519,"end":713.944,"text":"當然這是一個跨部會議這也是為什麼今天想要在總諮詢來跟行政院來提出來的一個原因下一張齁其實我們看到現在美國的這個IRA的成效"},{"start":734.6,"end":756.173,"text":"重點是成效好不好,我們現在看到確實他帶動的私人投資的金額非常非常高,甚至現在已經超過千億的美元。而且他看起來是用了一些稅負優惠的方式,可是就總體來看,他增加的稅收其實已經大於所支出或減免的補助了。所以在財政上面看起來也是有好處的,最後他創造的就業機會非常多。"},{"start":756.493,"end":774.787,"text":"﹗"},{"start":775.247,"end":791.873,"text":"請行政院來研議或評估符合臺灣情境的降低通膨法案。我的意思是說當然美國的情境跟臺灣的情境還是有所不同尤其是像稅率或者是像我們在產業裡面的角色也是有所不同"},{"start":792.313,"end":812.326,"text":"所以符合臺灣情境的一個IRA就降低通膨法案也許我們可以用賦稅的手段也許可以用利息的手段或者是其他誘因的手段來把我上面列的這幾個目標有沒有可能給放進去第一個強化氣候的目標第二個也可以擴大經營投資來提高產業的競爭力尤其是當我們現在在"},{"start":813.667,"end":833.8,"text":"政府的資金運用可能會比過去8年來的拮据一點的時候來帶動民間資金跟民間的活水來投入。再來也可以降低消費的通膨,尤其是在因應氣候變遷下的消費的通膨。那降低紅色供應鏈的威脅,擴大綠色就業公正轉型。其實在美國法案的經驗裡面,我們看到他把這些目標給放進去。"},{"start":834.861,"end":861.838,"text":"好像做出了不錯的成果當然大家情境是有不同大家處境是有不同這一定要考慮所以我說符合臺灣跟情境需求的IRA我覺得好像是時候來去做一些研議跟評估但這部分我們很希望院長可以來支持這幾個部會包括財經部會包括環境部一起來討論這件事情這甚至也跟財政部會有關係所以院長這個部分應該是可以來做"},{"start":862.739,"end":863.239,"text":"我們請國發會來先答覆。"},{"start":878.191,"end":889.486,"text":"他不僅僅是分享了美國的案例包括澳洲、紐西蘭的案例效果都非常好所以我們下個禮拜在環境部會議針對這個IRA我們做進一步的討論然後我們希望盡快的讓它在台灣實現"},{"start":894.252,"end":918.995,"text":"你說的那位專家他是來自澳洲但他協助美國的IA的法案他有來到我辦公室他有表達非常非常願意對台灣相關的法案來提出協助所以我覺得如果我們有意願至少至少現在來評估跟研議我覺得一些國際上面的支持或國際上面的專業上面的資源應該我們也是有可以取得的機會跟空間的但重點是希望這個部分是由行政院或者是我們相關的部會其實很清楚"},{"start":919.596,"end":924.707,"text":"這可能是我們現在欠缺的胡蘿蔔在我們棍子以外的重要的胡蘿蔔我們往這個方向"}]}}}}