{"id":153802,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153802","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd8197ca7bfd47cef213d0fec08313b105ec0139eec4d40364b4f2b2717c1df6d4f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:26:04 - 09:39:41","影片長度":"00:13:37","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化AI生態系及充實AI人才與產業AI化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧未來」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及6月13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T09:26:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T09:39:41+08:00","duration":817,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":180,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時26分）有請國發會主委。"],["主席：我們請國發會主委。"],["林委員岱樺：主委，我就先看你的簡報。你在第1頁講到臺灣AI行動2.0跟未來九年要推動的晶創臺灣方案，我要提醒你，晶創臺灣方案中補助的都是優勢產業，也就是最基層的硬體部分，但在終端的運算中心和運用領域是沒有的，所以我提醒你。既然方案是從今年開始，你也放在簡報當中，表示你是很重視的。包括臺灣AI行動2.0的執行計畫，我要拜託你，等一下我質詢的時候也會講，你們的計畫方案講得很好，今年你們也編列119億，那我拜託你要重新檢視是不是真的符合AI的運作。","再來，在人才培訓當中，你以兩大部分來說明，其中一個是鼓勵自訓人才，包括協助企業人才布局，我就根據企業人才布局請教，因為當中有一點我不知道你們能不能克服。你在第三點、第四點、第五點提到要針對國際頂尖人才展開獵才行動；要參照新加坡、日本、韓國等作法，盤點我們的居住、租稅等政策。但臺灣光個人所得稅最高就課40%，然後你要獵才？新加坡獵到這些優秀人才後，停留60天以下者免稅；60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅；如果多於180天以上，即六個月以上，則淨所得課22%，總收入課15%，公司董事一律課22%。我不知道您能不能去說服財政部？光是獵才，你就列了第二點、第三點、第四點及第五點來說明，這是多大的篇幅？五項中有三項是講到這個，本席提點你。","再來，今天講到AI，我認為國發會當責不讓！我針對幾個面向跟你討論：一、台灣人工智慧全球排名；二、人工智慧產業結構說明；三、人工智慧產業能做甚麼；四、人工智慧發展，垂直領域專家是成敗關鍵；五、跨部會協作國發會必須當責不讓；六、本席的具體要求。","英國雜誌《TORTOISE MEDIA》針對全球AI做了排名。在全球整體AI的指數上我們排名第26，新加坡排名第3，韓國排名第6。","在政府投入部分，上面有兩張表，總排名在左邊，有講到政府的投入。2022年我們政府的投入是全球第42名，2023年我們是全球第33名。再看右邊那張圖講的是研究部分，我們全球排名第36，發展第51，規模第38。所以我要講的是，落差很大！","我們的晶圓代工、我們的伺服器全球排名是數一數二，再加上AI教父、教母來了，他們離臺後，臺灣是這麼的風光！其實這證明了一件事情：我們的基礎產業是好的！但我們在全球AI的應用排名，包括政府投入卻是這麼的低！本席認為，你們在優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源，重點是：你們也有講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵！本席用這一張圖來說明，現在有基礎層、中間層和應用層，你們把所有資源都放在右下方的基礎層。最基層是AI運算晶片、晶圓代工、伺服器；而中間層的雲端運算中心是現在各縣市都在爭取的；在AI核心技術當中，包括基層、中間層到最後的應用軟體部分。而AI另外還有應用的價值鏈，從下面的預先訓練與微調、對晶片的所有資料標註，以及你們現在也花很大規模在生成式的AI模型上。但AI價值創造的核心關鍵卻是左上角各行各業的應用！你看你的資源配置，你放在最右下端的晶片代工跟伺服器上，頂多現在還有國際的投資在雲端資訊中心。但我們要做的是左上角這件事情，所以就要盤點預算及執行科目有沒有符合。","人工智慧產業可以做什麼？本席特別針對幾個領域：醫療保健、金融服務、製造業、零售與電子商務、教育、農業。在醫療部分有幾個案例，今天數發部副署長有來，本席之前有接到一個陳情案，所以我念給大家聽，其實他是被駁回了來跟我哭訴說，數發部根本就不懂AI！","這是眼科用眼底鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影，結合了對失智症患者發生眼睛血管跟視網膜神經萎縮的病症進行匹配，也就是一個單純的眼科醫生，只會做眼底鏡的視網膜神經。但其實在教學醫院、榮總、長庚已經有研究這個資料了，在醫院內已經有研究了，因為這樣的數據分析是可以跟失智症匹配在一塊，所以教學醫院都有研究。他希望可以跟政府爭取經費，並擴大到醫院外的人民，以蒐集更大的數據與AI匹配，結果被你們打回來！我瞭解後發現，原來你們的審查委員僅有眼科專業，卻根本沒有AI產業，也沒有老年失智的跨領域專業！你知道這種早期預防研究可以減少大量的健保支出，又可以造福多少家庭嗎？失智症是一種文明病，現在光是做眼睛檢查就可以早期發現失智症這種文明病，可以提早預防，減緩發病。","包括金融在內，我們就以詐騙為例。現在政府是比較被動的，要求人民打電話去打詐中心，被動接受人民陳情。但如果有AI導入的話，那麼就詐欺的檢測來說，只要導入AI，人民不需要打電話了。當他在做這個行為時，就已經進入政府的AI模型套路，還會告訴你：這是詐騙，是政府告訴你的。","本席一直主張農業智慧決策，其實連農業決策都需要人工智慧以便做精準農業，坦白講，這就是農業優生學、農業預測等等。","以上這些，是本席提供給你現在符合AI的各應用面向，包括預算在內以及為什麼要重新檢視的原因所在。","但人工智慧也不是萬能，有優點，也有缺點。","優點就是能短時間內處理大量的數據，提高工作效能，節省時間成本。在作業精準度上堪稱完美，尤其經專家系統定義過的作業，可以全天候24小時準確執行所指定的。","缺點是什麼？AI只是一個工具！這句話是重點，AI只是一個工具！所以缺乏創造力，技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力，無法創造新的東西。儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平，但還是需要相關專家的明確定義才行。這句話的結果是，在臺灣的人工智慧產業當中，你們有講到人才專家，但很可惜，你們只講到法人及學研。你們說要到外面獵才，我也沒意見；但是光突破租稅這部分就要請你要好好跟財政部研究了。","我在這邊具體主張，一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家，並導入專家人才庫，這是本席的重點。主委，你在籌組各部會……今天來了好多部會，你們的專家一定要各產業的業界實務專家，才有可能成為專家！在這邊呢，這個也是我上週針對經濟部質詢的問題，已經明確要求杜絕紅色供應鏈，在杜絕紅色供應鏈下，我們又要怎麼樣去發展各製造業的AI升級輔導，這一點也提醒我們的主委。","至於跨部會的協作，國發會就當責不讓啦，我就以這個案例──國家農業治理的智慧化為例，例如我的選區裡面的石斑魚，我會舉這個案例是因為當中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候，我就替我自己的產業找了數發部，在數發部的協助之下，確實也補助了經費，做了AI相關的定序、數據的蒐集，所以這是數發部支持。但是這個計畫是從哪裡來的呢？誰發想呢？是我教育部，是科技大學的學者他的一個團隊，把他的技術拿來協助我的農民，這是農業部應該輔導的，但是跟經濟部有什麼關係？因為我們不能輸到中國後，我們就走南向，所以它就輸到東南亞，所以它是跨了農業部，跨了數發部、經濟部跟教育部，所以今天你的AI要完成，當然是要跨部會。","好，我具體建議四點，第一個，盤點現行狀態。第二個，盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性。第三個，建立專家人才系統。第四個，要加速普惠百工百業。我舉兩張圖來說明什麼叫做盤點現行的狀態，這一張圖是我辦公室盤整出來的，光是你們編的AI2.0，你在簡報上講經費是119億，這當中你就要去盤點，盤點什麼呢？到底目前有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況，是否都適合導入人工智慧，智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧，但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用，你要在你針對人工智慧編了119億的行動2.0當中，臺灣AI行動2.0當中，你就要去盤點了。","第二個，盤點各單位，就針對政府部門，你自己就要以身作則啊，哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧，譬如說開放式，就打詐這件事好了，你們可以協助警政署在他們開放式的，針對哪些是詐騙相關的，事先做預測，這樣做人民超有感的，因為他不用再被動打電話給警察局，不用打電話到打詐中心了，他任何的行為，我直接在金融系統當中，他要匯的時候，我就告訴他了，或者他樣態的一個告知。","第三，建立專家人才庫，本席在這邊的重點是各產業領域，涵蓋各產業的業界人才，這我舉一個例子，譬如說，我在補習班這邊工作22年了，你說要AI，一定是這個補習班內長期任職的資深員工，譬如說我有一個資訊部門，由我補習班內資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練，而不是從外部找，這樣才有可能成為專家，如果你是從外部，他怎麼可能，他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解，或者是對我這個螺絲工具機瞭解的人來設計他的AI呢？不可能啦，包括我高雄市當中所有金屬扣件，包括我們的離岸風電等等相關，所有中小企業都遍布整個高雄市，你怎麼做？當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練，所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來。","當然我們普惠百工百業的部分，以公共建設，這個是你主責的，由公建的角度，因為一個公建就是四年計畫，所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性，提供主題式的計畫，補助人工智慧導入，並採審查從寬、查核從嚴，為什麼？因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口，半導體29萬的人口，如果你再繼續補助優勢產業──半導體，那就只有29萬人有感，中小企業913萬人無感，重點就在這邊。好，你簡單回應一下。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的……"],["主席：這個部分我們是不是請主委，因為超過6分鐘了。"],["林委員岱樺：好，沒問題，他到底支不支持，他願不願意去檢討啊！"],["主席：主委，你再詳細書面資料給林委員。"],["林委員岱樺：你要不要檢討？就一句話，不檢討還是要檢討？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：會檢討、會檢討。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員的意見。"],["主席：好，非常感謝。","接下來我們請陳亭妃委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 807.282, \"end\": 807.443, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 807.443, \"end\": 807.603, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 807.603, \"end\": 807.663, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 807.663, \"end\": 807.683, \"score\": 0.055}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 807.683, \"end\": 807.743, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 807.743, \"end\": 807.763, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 807.763, \"end\": 807.983, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 807.983, \"end\": 808.203, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 808.203, \"end\": 808.223, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:06,624\n第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委\n\n2\n00:00:14,775 --> 00:00:36,702\n主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業尤其在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的\n\n3\n00:00:37,102 --> 00:00:55,663\n所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億\n\n4\n00:00:58,467 --> 00:01:12,965\n那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局\n\n5\n00:01:13,746 --> 00:01:21,951\n好我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40%\n\n6\n00:01:34,418 --> 00:01:42,586\n然後你要裂財來你知道新加坡裂財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上\n\n7\n00:01:52,136 --> 00:01:54,879\n6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的劣財你就劣了\n\n8\n00:02:10,979 --> 00:02:15,422\n2、3、4、5你的列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵\n\n9\n00:02:36,076 --> 00:03:02,616\n當然跨部會的協作國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個TotalisMedia它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表\n\n10\n00:03:04,337 --> 00:03:08,040\n總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大\n\n11\n00:03:27,111 --> 00:03:48,749\n哇我們的這個所謂我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好\n\n12\n00:03:49,589 --> 00:03:52,891\n所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖\n\n13\n00:04:05,672 --> 00:04:24,771\n這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分\n\n14\n00:04:25,745 --> 00:04:41,668\n好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標註等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但\n\n15\n00:04:42,475 --> 00:05:03,044\n我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算\n\n16\n00:05:05,365 --> 00:05:16,951\n你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個澄清案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是\n\n17\n00:05:30,678 --> 00:05:37,921\n被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的書畫部根本就不懂AI就是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料\n\n18\n00:05:52,606 --> 00:05:58,629\n其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業\n\n19\n00:06:21,058 --> 00:06:34,345\n也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病\n\n20\n00:06:43,550 --> 00:06:58,676\n好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了\n\n21\n00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:16,761\n只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套入了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要\n\n22\n00:07:34,324 --> 00:07:58,983\n重新的檢視好我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具好這句話是重點\n\n23\n00:07:59,764 --> 00:08:18,642\nAI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好這句話的結果也就是\n\n24\n00:08:19,142 --> 00:08:44,067\n台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點\n\n25\n00:08:45,167 --> 00:09:07,405\n主委既然你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈\n\n26\n00:09:10,207 --> 00:09:31,494\n這也提醒給我們的主委跨部會的協作國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業\n\n27\n00:09:32,654 --> 00:09:37,838\n找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的\n\n28\n00:10:00,717 --> 00:10:13,997\n那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了數發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會\n\n29\n00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:30,864\n我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點\n\n30\n00:10:45,447 --> 00:11:04,777\n好,盤點什麼呢?到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了\n\n31\n00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:31,094\n好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測\n\n32\n00:11:33,676 --> 00:11:48,944\n這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了\n\n33\n00:11:57,748 --> 00:12:03,830\n好那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工比如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啦而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能\n\n34\n00:12:15,635 --> 00:12:37,064\n他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具去瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來\n\n35\n00:12:45,208 --> 00:12:54,716\n好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼\n\n36\n00:13:04,485 --> 00:13:07,648\n因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好您簡單回應一下\n\n37\n00:13:21,977 --> 00:13:28,223\n那這個部分我們是不是請因為超過6分鐘好沒問題他願不願意去檢討啊你要不要檢討就一句話不檢討還是要檢討會檢討會檢討我們會謝謝委員的意見好非常感謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t6624\t第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委\n14775\t36702\t主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業尤其在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的\n37102\t55663\t所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億\n58467\t72965\t那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局\n73746\t81951\t好我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40%\n94418\t102586\t然後你要裂財來你知道新加坡裂財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上\n112136\t114879\t6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的劣財你就劣了\n130979\t135422\t2、3、4、5你的列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵\n156076\t182616\t當然 跨部會的協作 國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個Total is Media它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表\n184337\t188040\t總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大\n207111\t228749\t哇我們的這個所謂我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好\n229589\t232891\t所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖\n245672\t264771\t這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分\n265745\t281668\t好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標註等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但\n282475\t303044\t我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算\n305365\t316951\t你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個澄清案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是\n330678\t337921\t被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的書畫部根本就不懂AI就是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料\n352606\t358629\t其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業\n381058\t394345\t也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病\n403550\t418676\t好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了\n424639\t436761\t只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套入了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要\n454324\t478983\t重新的檢視好 我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能 節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具好 這句話是重點\n479764\t498642\tAI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好 這句話的結果也就是\n499142\t524067\t台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點\n525167\t547405\t主委 既然你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好 那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈\n550207\t571494\t這也提醒給我們的主委跨部會的協作國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業\n572654\t577838\t找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的\n600717\t613997\t那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了數發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會\n616620\t630864\t我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點\n645447\t664777\t好,盤點什麼呢?到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了\n671380\t691094\t好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測\n693676\t708944\t這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了\n717748\t723830\t好 那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工比如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啦而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能\n735635\t757064\t他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具去瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來\n765208\t774716\t好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼\n784485\t787648\t因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好 您簡單回應一下\n801977\t808223\t那這個部分我們是不是請因為超過6分鐘好沒問題他願不願意去檢討啊你要不要檢討就一句話不檢討還是要檢討會檢討會檢討我們會謝謝委員的意見好非常感謝\n","txt":"第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委\n主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業尤其在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的\n所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億\n那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局\n好我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40%\n然後你要裂財來你知道新加坡裂財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上\n6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的劣財你就劣了\n2、3、4、5你的列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵\n當然 跨部會的協作 國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個Total is Media它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表\n總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大\n哇我們的這個所謂我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好\n所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖\n這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分\n好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標註等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但\n我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算\n你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個澄清案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是\n被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的書畫部根本就不懂AI就是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料\n其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業\n也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病\n好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了\n只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套入了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要\n重新的檢視好 我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能 節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具好 這句話是重點\nAI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好 這句話的結果也就是\n台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點\n主委 既然你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好 那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈\n這也提醒給我們的主委跨部會的協作國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業\n找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的\n那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了數發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會\n我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點\n好,盤點什麼呢?到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了\n好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測\n這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了\n好 那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工比如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啦而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能\n他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具去瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來\n好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼\n因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好 您簡單回應一下\n那這個部分我們是不是請因為超過6分鐘好沒問題他願不願意去檢討啊你要不要檢討就一句話不檢討還是要檢討會檢討會檢討我們會謝謝委員的意見好非常感謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:06.624\n第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委\n\n00:14.775 --> 00:36.702\n主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業尤其在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的\n\n00:37.102 --> 00:55.663\n所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億\n\n00:58.467 --> 01:12.965\n那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局\n\n01:13.746 --> 01:21.951\n好我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40%\n\n01:34.418 --> 01:42.586\n然後你要裂財來你知道新加坡裂財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上\n\n01:52.136 --> 01:54.879\n6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的劣財你就劣了\n\n02:10.979 --> 02:15.422\n2、3、4、5你的列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵\n\n02:36.076 --> 03:02.616\n當然跨部會的協作國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個TotalisMedia它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表\n\n03:04.337 --> 03:08.040\n總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大\n\n03:27.111 --> 03:48.749\n哇我們的這個所謂我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好\n\n03:49.589 --> 03:52.891\n所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖\n\n04:05.672 --> 04:24.771\n這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分\n\n04:25.745 --> 04:41.668\n好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標註等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但\n\n04:42.475 --> 05:03.044\n我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算\n\n05:05.365 --> 05:16.951\n你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個澄清案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是\n\n05:30.678 --> 05:37.921\n被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的書畫部根本就不懂AI就是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料\n\n05:52.606 --> 05:58.629\n其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業\n\n06:21.058 --> 06:34.345\n也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病\n\n06:43.550 --> 06:58.676\n好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了\n\n07:04.639 --> 07:16.761\n只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套入了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要\n\n07:34.324 --> 07:58.983\n重新的檢視好我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具好這句話是重點\n\n07:59.764 --> 08:18.642\nAI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好這句話的結果也就是\n\n08:19.142 --> 08:44.067\n台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點\n\n08:45.167 --> 09:07.405\n主委既然你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈\n\n09:10.207 --> 09:31.494\n這也提醒給我們的主委跨部會的協作國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業\n\n09:32.654 --> 09:37.838\n找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的\n\n10:00.717 --> 10:13.997\n那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了數發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會\n\n10:16.620 --> 10:30.864\n我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點\n\n10:45.447 --> 11:04.777\n好,盤點什麼呢?到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了\n\n11:11.380 --> 11:31.094\n好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測\n\n11:33.676 --> 11:48.944\n這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了\n\n11:57.748 --> 12:03.830\n好那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工比如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啦而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能\n\n12:15.635 --> 12:37.064\n他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具去瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來\n\n12:45.208 --> 12:54.716\n好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼\n\n13:04.485 --> 13:07.648\n因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好您簡單回應一下\n\n13:21.977 --> 13:28.223\n那這個部分我們是不是請因為超過6分鐘好沒問題他願不願意去檢討啊你要不要檢討就一句話不檢討還是要檢討會檢討會檢討我們會謝謝委員的意見好非常感謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":6.624,"text":"第一位的林黛樺委員請做發言有請國發會主委我們請國發會主委"},{"start":14.775,"end":36.702,"text":"主委我就先看你的簡報你第一頁當中去講到說您報告有台灣AI行動2.0跟精創台灣方案這未來的9年那我要提醒你的你的精創台灣方案當中補助都在優勢產業尤其在最基層的硬體的部分它在終端的相關的運算中心包括相關的運用領域是沒有的"},{"start":37.102,"end":55.663,"text":"所以我提醒你這是在你竟然是今年開始你也放在你的這個簡報當中表示你是很重視的那包括你的台灣AI行動2.0這當中的執行計畫但既然你先來我要拜託你等一下我質詢的時候也會講你們的計畫方案也講得很好包括今年你們也編列119億"},{"start":58.467,"end":72.965,"text":"那我要拜託你要重新的來檢視它是不是真的符合AI的運作再來你的人才培訓當中你花了這個兩大部分一個是鼓勵資訊人才包括這個協助企業人才的佈局"},{"start":73.746,"end":81.951,"text":"好我就根據你的企業人才布局有一點我不知道你們能克服光是你說要3、4、5到國際的點財、列財要參照新加坡、日本、韓國要盤點我們的居住租稅等光是台灣個人所得最高克40%"},{"start":94.418,"end":102.586,"text":"然後你要裂財來你知道新加坡裂財來之後他們在60天以下來這邊的優秀人60天以下免稅60天到182天是課15%的個人所得稅如果你多於180天以上"},{"start":112.136,"end":114.879,"text":"6個月以上是淨所得課22%總收入課15%公司董事一律課22%我不知道您能不能去說服財政部光是你的劣財你就劣了"},{"start":130.979,"end":135.422,"text":"2、3、4、5你的列才當中的3、4、5多大的拼譜5項有3項是講到這個東西好本席提點你那再來本席針對今天講到AI那我也認為國發會當則不讓我這邊針對幾個面向跟你一起討論包括台灣人工智慧的全球排名第二個產業結構第三個針對產業能做什麼以及垂直領域的專家才是成功成敗的關鍵"},{"start":156.076,"end":182.616,"text":"當然 跨部會的協作 國發會是當然當則不讓當然本席最後有具體的要求那在我覺得爬出了是一個在英國有這樣的一個雜誌這個Total is Media它針對全球AI的排名我們全球整體AI的指數我們排名26新加坡排名3韓國排名6那在政府投入的部分上面有兩張表"},{"start":184.337,"end":188.04,"text":"總排名的部分是左邊這張表那右邊有講到左邊這邊也講到政府的投入我們在2022年政府的投入是全球42名2023年我們是全球33名好再看右邊那張圖他所講的是我們在研究的部分我們全球排名36發展51規模38所以我要講的你會覺得落差很大"},{"start":207.111,"end":228.749,"text":"哇我們的這個所謂我們的晶圓代工我們的伺服器全球排行數一數二再加上這個AI教父教母來了現在離台之後這麼的風光其實它證明了一件事情我們的基礎產業是好的但是你看我們全球AI的應用包括政府的投入是這麼的低好"},{"start":229.589,"end":232.891,"text":"所以本席認為在你們優勢產業當中已經投入這麼多資源了重點你們也講到AI應用在各行各業才是AI創造價值的核心關鍵好本席用這一張圖"},{"start":245.672,"end":264.771,"text":"這個你們現在有基礎層、中間層、應用層你們現在所有的資源都在右下方基礎層我們從最基層AI晶片運算晶圓的代工伺服器中間的雲端運算中心是我們現在各縣市都在爭取的在AI核心技術當中從基層、中層到最後的應用軟體的部分"},{"start":265.745,"end":281.668,"text":"好這才是應用好那另外還AI應用的價值鏈從下面的我們的預先訓練微調啦對於這個我們的晶片當中的所有的這個資料標註等啊以及我們現在你們也花很大規模的在生成式的AI模型但"},{"start":282.475,"end":303.044,"text":"我今天要有AI價值創造的核心關鍵就是在左上角的各行各業的應用所以你看你的資源配置你是放在最右下端的在晶片代工跟伺服器頂多現在是這個國際的投資在雲端資訊中心但是我們要做的是左上角這件事情那就要盤點你的預算"},{"start":305.365,"end":316.951,"text":"你的執行的科目有沒有符合這個東西有沒有符合呢好那個人工產業可以做什麼本席特別針對幾個領域在醫療、保健、金融服務、製造業、零售、電子、教育、農業在醫療的部分我有幾個案例速發部今天速發部的副署長副署長有來我之前就有一個澄清案那我就練給我就呢陳述給大家聽他是"},{"start":330.678,"end":337.921,"text":"被駁回了來跟我哭訴說我們的書畫部根本就不懂AI就是眼科眼體鏡進行視網膜神經及血管攝影結合了失智症的患者有發生原血管跟神經萎縮病的近症進行匹配也就是我單純的眼科醫生我只會做眼體鏡的視網膜的神經可是這個資料"},{"start":352.606,"end":358.629,"text":"其實在我們教學醫院榮總長跟已經有研究在醫院內有研究他其實這樣的數據分區是可以跟我私自站可以匹配在一塊這都有教學醫院的一個研究他希望來跟政府爭取經費說我能擴大到醫院外的人民來蒐集更大的這樣的一個數據來做AI的匹配結果被你們打回來後來我瞭解了結果原來你們審查委員是有眼科經由眼科專業根本沒有AI產業"},{"start":381.058,"end":394.345,"text":"也沒有這個老年失智的跨領域你知道這個早期預防可以減少大量的這個健保支出又可以造福多少個家庭光是這個失智症的文明病我光是做一個眼睛的檢查我就可以去跟早期發現我的這個文明病失智症他可以減緩可以提早預防減緩他的發病"},{"start":403.55,"end":418.676,"text":"好包括金融我們說詐騙今天我們都是政府叫被動啊我發現這個是不是我打電話到打詐中心啊我被動的接受人民的陳情啊但是如果我有AI導入的話我整個這個欺詐的檢測其實他只要導入的時候我的人民他不需要打了"},{"start":424.639,"end":436.761,"text":"只要他要再做他的行為的時候就已經政府的這個AI的模型已經套入了告訴你欸這個就是這就是告訴你喔政府告訴你你這是詐騙喔甚至本席一直主張的我們的農業智慧決策連農業決策能夠要都要智慧的精準農業講坦白的就是農業優生學我們的農業預測等好這個就是等本席就是提供給你在現在符合民意當中你AI的應用面包括你的預算為什麼你要"},{"start":454.324,"end":478.983,"text":"重新的檢視好 我們這個人工智慧啊它也不是萬能有優點缺點優點就是它能短時間內處理大量的數據提高工作效能 節省時間成本在作業精準度上是堪稱完美經過專家系統的定義過的作業可以全天候24小時準確的執行我的指定作業缺點是什麼AI它只是一個工具好 這句話是重點"},{"start":479.764,"end":498.642,"text":"AI只是個工具所以它缺乏創造力它的技術還沒有辦法具備人類的創造力跟想像力無法創造新的東西所以儘管AI可以通過大量的數據訓練來提升自身的智能水平但是還是需要相關專家明確的定義才行好 這句話的結果也就是"},{"start":499.142,"end":524.067,"text":"台灣人工智慧產業當中你們講到人才專家很可惜你們就講到法人及學研當中包括說你們要到外面獵財我也沒意見但是你光是突破那個租稅的部分就請你好好的跟財政部研究了好我在這邊具體主張你這個一定要有各行各業業界的實務專家導入你的專家人才庫這是本席的重點"},{"start":525.167,"end":547.405,"text":"主委 既然你在籌組各部會今天來了好多各部會你們的專家一定要各產業的實務專家才有可能成為專家好 那在這邊呢我這個也是上週我針對經濟部質詢的已經明確杜絕我們紅色供應鏈下我又要在怎麼的發展各製造業的AI升級的輔導杜絕紅色供應鏈"},{"start":550.207,"end":571.494,"text":"這也提醒給我們的主委跨部會的協作國發會就當則不讓了本席我就以這個案例國家農業治理的智慧化我就以我的選區裡面的石斑魚我會舉這個案例是因為中國拒絕我石斑魚進口到中國的時候所以我就替我自己的產業"},{"start":572.654,"end":577.838,"text":"找了速發部他就是呢這個速發部協助下確實補助這個經費做了AI的相關的定序數據的收集所以這是這個速發部支持但是這個計畫是從哪裡來呢誰發想呢是我教育部是我一個科技大學的一個學者他的一個團隊所以他把他技術來找我的這個農民這是農業部應該輔導的"},{"start":600.717,"end":613.997,"text":"那但是呢跟經濟部有什麼關係因為呢我們不能輸到中國啦我們就走南向所以他就輸到東南亞那所以呢這又跨了農業部跨了數發部跟經濟部跟教育部所以你今天AI要完成當然是要跨部會"},{"start":616.62,"end":630.864,"text":"我的具體建議四點第一個盤點現行狀態第二個盤點各單位使用人工智慧的可行性第三個建立專家人才系統第四個加速普惠百工百業我舉兩張圖怎麼叫盤點現行的狀態這一張圖我辦公室這樣盤整出來了光是你們賓的這個AI2.0你在簡報上講的119億這個當中你就要去盤點"},{"start":645.447,"end":664.777,"text":"好,盤點什麼呢?到底目前我有關智慧化應用的經費跟計畫狀況是否都適合導入人工智慧智慧化的應用並不代表所有的人工智慧但是你要專門在AI的這個工具上的應用你要在你智慧編了119億的這個2.0行動的2.0當中台灣AI行動2.0當中你就要去盤點了"},{"start":671.38,"end":691.094,"text":"好那第二個盤點各單位就針對政府部門你自己就要以身作則哪些是中央單位可以建立封閉式跟開放式的人工智慧剛才譬如說開放式就打炸就好了我的警政署你們可以協助警政署在開放他們的這個開放式的哪些是一個詐騙的相關的事先預測"},{"start":693.676,"end":708.944,"text":"這人民超有感的我不用再被動打電話給警察去不用打電話到打詐中心的他任何的行為我直接在金融系統當中他要會的時候我就告訴他了他或者他樣態的一個告知第三建立專栽人才庫本席在這邊重點是各產業領域涵蓋各產業的業界人才這我舉一個例子比如說我在補習班我這邊工作22年了"},{"start":717.748,"end":723.83,"text":"好 那你說要AI啊一定是這個補習班內的長期的資深員工比如說我有一個資訊部門由我在這個補習班內的資深的資訊部門的人來受你的訓練啦而不是這樣才有可能成為專家如果你從外部他怎麼可能"},{"start":735.635,"end":757.064,"text":"他怎麼可能會是一個對補習班瞭解或者是對我這個螺絲工具去瞭解的人他來設計他的AI呢不可能吶包括我的高雄市當中的所有金屬扣件包括我們的離岸風電等等相關所有中小企業都遍佈整個我高雄市那你怎麼當然是從他們裡面的資訊部門去訓練所以你的國內人才的訓練是要從這邊來"},{"start":765.208,"end":774.716,"text":"好那當然我們普惠百工百業的部分與公共建設這個是你要公建的角度這是因為一個公建就是四年計畫所以針對國內產業中小企業的組成特性提供主題式的計畫補助人工智慧導入並採審查重觀審查和重演為什麼"},{"start":784.485,"end":787.648,"text":"因為中小企業有910萬的從業人口半導體29萬的人口如果你再繼續補助優勢產業半導體就29萬有感中小企業913萬人無感重點就在這邊好 您簡單回應一下"},{"start":801.977,"end":808.223,"text":"那這個部分我們是不是請因為超過6分鐘好沒問題他願不願意去檢討啊你要不要檢討就一句話不檢討還是要檢討會檢討會檢討我們會謝謝委員的意見好非常感謝"}]}}}}