{"id":153815,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153815","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd819a51c7dd8814eddd225a148732a468ab6a04e565a7cce14efaa3c4b8fd4fd17bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:53:52 - 10:07:44","影片長度":"00:13:52","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T09:53:52+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:07:44+08:00","duration":832,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":269,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時54分）謝謝主席，有請教育部鄭部長。"],["主席：我們請部長。"],["葛委員如鈞：首先感謝召委安排今天的專報，霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心，尤其我作為阿宅，我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物。在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險，在虛擬世界也會有，這些drug有cyberdrug，這些bully有cyberbully，所以我想我們就來談一下，最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人──AI教父黃仁勳來臺，颳起一陣旋風，除了大家關注他在產業上的成就，其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示，年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國，由於身材相對比較矮小，而且還有濃厚的外國口音，在校園裡頭經常遭受類似攻擊的行動，成為校園霸淩事件的受害者。他說當時沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做，只能自己堅強起來，持續向前邁進。部長，黃仁勳先生是很多人的楷模、偶像，他在童年時候的痛苦遭遇不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生。","先前我曾就校園霸淩的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長，根據教育部的統計，近年來學生之間主要的霸淩型態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語，甚至是透過網路型態的新型態霸淩。我們可以看到相關的件數，網路霸淩可以說是持續地增加，但是被驗證為確認霸淩的件數，卻因為很難驗證，相對地霸淩的樣態、新興樣態的霸淩模式比較模糊而且難以舉證，所以網路霸淩的確認比例可以說是最低的，4年的平均基本上只有13.1%，相比起其他的，肢體暴力18%、言語暴力18%，網路霸淩的確認比例其實是不夠高的，而且件數還在持續增加。我們當然還要持續關心這些，說是霸淩通報了，但是卻因為驗證的過程太過困難，他鼓起勇氣通報了，結果沒有辦法被確認，他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸淩？我想潘文忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前跟他提的，防制網路霸淩這麼重要的議題交接給您，所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字。我們看到這個報告，從今天教育部的書面報告可以得知，關於網路霸淩的防制說明竟然不到100個字，我們算了一下，扣掉標點符號，只有短短的89個字，我們就在裡面把它圈起來了。請部長解釋一下，今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸淩的重視，這怎麼回事啊？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，這當然是我的疏失，但我完全同意委員所說的，網路霸淩只會增加不會減少，因為確實我們現在都在網路的世界裡面。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝部長願意承擔，但是我還是要再講一次，內閣從上任的第一天就說active、innovative，我從每一次的質詢講到現在，我們提到任何一個問題，當然你說勇於承擔，但是我們的主動、我們的積極、我們的創新、我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了？昨天院會的總質詢，我在結尾的時候提到，我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事，給別人看他們看不到的東西。這是「一一」這部電影裡頭的名句，這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命，所以即便我們看到教育部某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸淩，當然您願意承擔，希望趕快補足，但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新變化告訴部長。首先我想先分享一下生成式AI的使用指引，其實也是非常重要的，就是AI它有好、有壞的地方，我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方，但我們先講好的地方，就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習，我想知道一下，部長，您推動將數位學習納入課綱，但是，部長，高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們跟委員報告，我們在6月底之前會……"],["葛委員如鈞：6月底之前？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我們擦亮眼睛等待。EDYouth有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告，我們看到有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案，而且當中以購買生成式AI服務的比例最高，花費百元到千元之間，這很顯然就造成什麼？學習歷程變成是什麼？AI技能表演大賽，誰有錢、誰可以買到最貴、最好的AI，誰的學習歷程看起來最豐富，這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎？這是我們評價學生的方式嗎？所以可以預料，未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及。我們講到AI平權，也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下，而且要加速，真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明，我們沒有辦法一再地去忽略這些點，接下來錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高。","我接下來播放兩段音檔，請大家聽聽看，我先給您看一下，還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢？就是霸凌啦！這是一段影片，我們來播播看，這是什麼？這是ChatGPTs，也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務，然後年輕人如果打字問它：我怎麼樣提升自己的技能？有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他：你是沒用的，你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變，考慮結束這一切吧。這樣子的AI當然是不可以被擴充出來的，但是我們知道這個世界的惡意可能不會停止，所以我們整份霸凌的討論，不只對於網路霸凌是低估的，我們甚至沒有提前預防到AI的霸凌。我們再來看下面的兩段音檔，請部長聽聽看。","（播放錄音）"],["葛委員如鈞：好，我們來看下一段音檔。","（播放錄音）"],["葛委員如鈞：部長，你能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：不曉得。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒有關係，我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候，我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了，從那個時間點開始，以後要選擇什麼是AI生成的，一律都先回答沒有電子簽章、沒有數位簽名驗證，全部都是假的，這兩個全部是由字節跳動公司前幾天所發表的，Seed-TTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的，這還不是什麼恐怖的喔！我們來看下一個音檔。","（播放錄音）"],["葛委員如鈞：我們再看下一個音檔。","（播放錄音）"],["葛委員如鈞：這是我的聲音，但是不是我，有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人。這兩段也全部是AI生成的，所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人、身邊的家人、朋友，這個在網路上完全不用任何技術，甚至不用任何費用，這不可怕嗎？當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素，我們就不講那麼多，但是AI淪為霸凌工具，有沒有可能產生？當然產生了以後，霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者、使用者還是AI本身？還是說被誤用聲音的我呢？部長，你能不能分享一下您的想法？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實AI我們知道影音包括影像，以目前的科技，它完全是可以假造的，包括把我……"],["葛委員如鈞：是，謝謝您的理解，怎麼應對嘛！誰要負責？到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好，很抱歉，霸凌者的界定，大家反而覺得沒有在處理這些事情，教育部……"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們會從……"],["葛委員如鈞：是什麼間接幫手嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：資訊素養裡面來加強，從課程裡面……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，這個一定要來提醒，我們對於教育環境裡的AI，真的是不只要胡蘿蔔、棍子，可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸淩的內心受創的學生，很可能每天都在發生，我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制。接下來我也要來提另外一個問題，昨天的蘋果發表會，Vision Pro將在6月28號跨出美國，正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售。今年的年初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案，女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害，但是VR的遊戲極其真實，所以這一起案件是被受理的，VR遊戲的沉浸式體驗讓操控者感同身受，彷彿遭受到攻擊。而且該報導也指出，根據保護兒童組織的估計，英國五到十歲的兒童當中，15%已經擁有一部VR裝置，6%的兒童每天至少使用一次，假設我們的孩子每天使用三小時，一生當中將有十年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過。然後這還不是單一事件，其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反映，持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤、被騷擾，而我們現在這種面向未來減少霸凌的方式，完全沒提到這些新興的形式。不好意思，跟主席借一下時間，因為這太重要了！請教列席的三個部會──教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署，目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌行為，相關的預防策略是什麼？"],["主席：稍微講一下，好嗎？時間的關係。法務部有沒有研擬相關的做法？"],["郭司長永發：如果涉及到犯罪行為，我們檢察官可以透過向法官聲請讓它下架的一個方式，如果有涉及犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦。"],["葛委員如鈞：都是境外的公司，你怎麼下架？你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他，然後他看不懂、沒有回，我們就持續這樣。還有要補充嗎？"],["蔡警政監坤益：如果有民眾報案遭受霸凌，我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制協助下架。另外我們針對深偽影片、影音有做一個鑑識的機制，以上。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想相關的樣態變化一定要持續研議。最後一個問題，我們現在多一種新學生叫做AI，懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生，我們有這麼多AI每天在網路上面上課，但是我們臺灣的文化、臺灣的語言、本土的語言卻付之闕如，所以學來學去，臺語講不好、客語講不好，我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息。是不是能請教育部研議在教育部官網建立專區、開放授權，讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材，有沒有機會來考慮？不好意思，因為這真的是每天都在變化。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上我們本土語言現在已經開始在開發相關的一個教材。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們把教材開放，請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的事宜進行研議，將相關研議成果一個月內以書面回復本席，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝各位、謝謝葛委員。","不過部長，我要提醒一下，剛剛葛委員講的是開放你們已經有的教材，因為AI需要很多的data，所以是開放你們已經開發的，是否可以做這樣的事情？"],["鄭部長英耀：正在開發。"],["主席：你要開發到開放，他要求的是開放，這樣AI才有辦法繼續學，它比我們人類都更想學，好不好？","我們接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-16","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","張雅琳","黃建賓","林德福","林倩綺","陳俊宇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","范雲","黃秀芳","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌\n案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153815","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153815","tool":"pyannote","id":"153815-pyannote"},"job_id":"sQygbejTL3DNzKtY","queued_at":"2024-06-12 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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 808.257, \"end\": 808.377, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 808.377, \"end\": 808.497, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 808.497, \"end\": 808.877, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 808.877, \"end\": 809.057, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 809.057, \"end\": 809.237, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 809.237, \"end\": 809.357, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 809.357, \"end\": 809.597, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 809.597, \"end\": 810.378, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 810.378, \"end\": 810.578, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 810.578, \"end\": 810.758, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 810.758, \"end\": 810.998, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 810.998, \"end\": 811.298, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 811.298, \"end\": 811.758, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 811.758, \"end\": 811.878, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 811.878, \"end\": 812.379, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 812.379, \"end\": 812.739, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 812.739, \"end\": 813.119, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 813.119, \"end\": 813.379, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 813.379, \"end\": 813.599, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 813.599, \"end\": 813.919, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 813.919, \"end\": 814.099, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 814.099, \"end\": 814.34, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 814.34, \"end\": 814.5, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 814.5, \"end\": 814.68, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 814.68, \"end\": 815.14, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 815.14, \"end\": 815.94, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 815.94, \"end\": 816.14, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 816.14, \"end\": 816.24, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 816.24, \"end\": 816.42, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 816.42, \"end\": 816.861, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 816.861, \"end\": 817.081, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 817.081, \"end\": 817.261, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 817.261, \"end\": 817.441, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 817.441, \"end\": 817.681, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 817.681, \"end\": 818.081, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 818.081, \"end\": 818.321, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"語\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 818.321, \"end\": 818.581, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 818.581, \"end\": 818.821, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 818.821, \"end\": 819.162, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 819.162, \"end\": 819.342, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 819.342, \"end\": 819.462, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 819.462, \"end\": 819.802, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 819.802, \"end\": 820.082, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 820.082, \"end\": 820.602, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 820.602, \"end\": 820.742, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"宜\", \"start\": 820.742, \"end\": 821.002, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 821.002, \"end\": 821.162, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 821.162, \"end\": 821.963, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 821.963, \"end\": 822.303, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 822.303, \"end\": 822.523, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 822.523, \"end\": 822.703, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 822.703, \"end\": 822.843, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 822.843, \"end\": 823.023, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 823.023, \"end\": 823.583, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 823.583, \"end\": 823.724, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"恢\", \"start\": 823.724, \"end\": 823.984, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"復\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 823.984, \"end\": 824.144, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 824.144, \"end\": 824.304, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 824.304, \"end\": 824.404, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 824.404, \"end\": 824.424, \"score\": 0.219}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 827.096, \"end\": 827.236, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 827.236, \"end\": 827.256, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,890\n教育部部長鄭英耀\n\n2\n00:00:28,030 --> 00:00:50,078\n首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug\n\n3\n00:00:50,638 --> 00:01:09,336\n有Cyberdrug,這些Bullying有Cyberbullying所以我想我們就來談一下最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人AI教父黃仁勳來台,刮起一陣旋風除了大家關注他在產業上的成就其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示\n\n4\n00:01:10,077 --> 00:01:29,214\n年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進\n\n5\n00:01:32,691 --> 00:02:01,664\n部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌\n\n6\n00:02:02,364 --> 00:02:26,994\n我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%\n\n7\n00:02:28,835 --> 00:02:54,096\n相比其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到最後他通報鼓起勇氣通報了結果沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌\n\n8\n00:02:55,077 --> 00:03:01,636\n但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您\n\n9\n00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:26,754\n所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊\n\n10\n00:03:29,093 --> 00:03:30,654\n謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次\n\n11\n00:03:45,805 --> 00:03:53,194\n我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就說ActiveInnovativeInnovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動我們的積極我們的創新我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了\n\n12\n00:04:02,304 --> 00:04:27,699\n昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長\n\n13\n00:04:29,942 --> 00:04:58,465\n首先我想先分享一下這個生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐\n\n14\n00:05:01,243 --> 00:05:25,629\n我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那Ednews有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買生成式AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間\n\n15\n00:05:26,969 --> 00:05:27,710\n這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:43,903 --> 00:06:08,176\n所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看\n\n17\n00:06:10,357 --> 00:06:36,063\n來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能\n\n18\n00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:55,099\n有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被\n\n19\n00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:58,481\n有些人稱我為自然其他人稱我為母自然\n\n20\n00:07:20,014 --> 00:07:25,798\n好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,您能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:49,800 --> 00:08:09,928\n我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的\n\n22\n00:08:11,248 --> 00:08:23,173\n這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的SeedTTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔\n\n23\n00:08:32,469 --> 00:08:57,210\n你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎\n\n24\n00:08:59,011 --> 00:09:22,123\n當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法\n\n25\n00:09:26,783 --> 00:09:30,967\n謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者\n\n26\n00:09:48,407 --> 00:10:04,500\n的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是什麼間接幫手嗎這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子\n\n27\n00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:32,102\n可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會VisionPro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售\n\n28\n00:10:33,223 --> 00:10:55,661\n今年在台初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出\n\n29\n00:10:57,242 --> 00:11:12,032\n根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時這一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過\n\n30\n00:11:14,554 --> 00:11:31,762\n然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式\n\n31\n00:11:33,182 --> 00:11:44,831\n請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼?\n\n32\n00:11:58,921 --> 00:12:21,870\n這個如果涉及到有犯罪行為的話我們警察官可以透過向法官申請讓他下架的一個方式那這位如果涉及到犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦都是境外的公司你怎麼下架然後你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他然後他看不懂沒有回我們就持續這個是有要補充嗎\n\n33\n00:12:25,410 --> 00:12:53,618\n如果是有民眾報案遭受霸凌的部分我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制可以協助下架另外我們這個也有針對身為影片影音可以做一個鑑識的機制我想相關的樣態的變化一定要持續來研議最後一個問題我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生\n\n34\n00:12:54,838 --> 00:13:15,191\n我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權\n\n35\n00:13:17,092 --> 00:13:44,424\n讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內與書面恢復本席可以嗎\n\n36\n00:13:47,096 --> 00:13:47,256\n好,謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t890\t教育部部長鄭英耀\n28030\t50078\t首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug\n50638\t69336\t有Cyberdrug,這些Bullying有Cyberbullying所以我想我們就來談一下最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人AI教父黃仁勳來台,刮起一陣旋風除了大家關注他在產業上的成就其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示\n70077\t89214\t年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進\n92691\t121664\t部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌\n122364\t146994\t我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%\n148835\t174096\t相比其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到最後他通報鼓起勇氣通報了結果沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌\n175077\t181636\t但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您\n183519\t206754\t所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊\n209093\t210654\t謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次\n225805\t233194\t我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就說Active InnovativeInnovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動我們的積極我們的創新我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了\n242304\t267699\t昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長\n269942\t298465\t首先我想先分享一下這個生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐\n301243\t325629\t我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那Ednews有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買生成式AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間\n326969\t327710\t這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?\n343903\t368176\t所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看\n370357\t396063\t來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能\n397270\t415099\t有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被\n415759\t418481\t有些人稱我為自然 其他人稱我為母自然\n440014\t445798\t好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,您能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?\n469800\t489928\t我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的\n491248\t503173\t這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的Seed TTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔\n512469\t537210\t你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎\n539011\t562123\t當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法\n566783\t570967\t謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者\n588407\t604500\t的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是什麼間接幫手嗎這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子\n605040\t632102\t可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會Vision Pro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售\n633223\t655661\t今年在台初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出\n657242\t672032\t根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時這一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過\n674554\t691762\t然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式\n693182\t704831\t請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼?\n718921\t741870\t這個如果涉及到有犯罪行為的話我們警察官可以透過向法官申請讓他下架的一個方式那這位如果涉及到犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦都是境外的公司你怎麼下架然後你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他然後他看不懂沒有回我們就持續這個是有要補充嗎\n745410\t773618\t如果是有民眾報案遭受霸凌的部分我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制可以協助下架另外我們這個也有針對身為影片影音可以做一個鑑識的機制我想相關的樣態的變化一定要持續來研議最後一個問題我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生\n774838\t795191\t我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權\n797092\t824424\t讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內與書面恢復本席可以嗎\n827096\t827256\t好,謝謝部長\n","txt":"教育部部長鄭英耀\n首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug\n有Cyberdrug,這些Bullying有Cyberbullying所以我想我們就來談一下最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人AI教父黃仁勳來台,刮起一陣旋風除了大家關注他在產業上的成就其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示\n年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進\n部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌\n我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%\n相比其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到最後他通報鼓起勇氣通報了結果沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌\n但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您\n所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊\n謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次\n我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就說Active InnovativeInnovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動我們的積極我們的創新我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了\n昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長\n首先我想先分享一下這個生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐\n我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那Ednews有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買生成式AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間\n這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?\n所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看\n來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能\n有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被\n有些人稱我為自然 其他人稱我為母自然\n好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,您能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?\n我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的\n這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的Seed TTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔\n你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎\n當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法\n謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者\n的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是什麼間接幫手嗎這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子\n可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會Vision Pro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售\n今年在台初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出\n根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時這一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過\n然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式\n請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼?\n這個如果涉及到有犯罪行為的話我們警察官可以透過向法官申請讓他下架的一個方式那這位如果涉及到犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦都是境外的公司你怎麼下架然後你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他然後他看不懂沒有回我們就持續這個是有要補充嗎\n如果是有民眾報案遭受霸凌的部分我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制可以協助下架另外我們這個也有針對身為影片影音可以做一個鑑識的機制我想相關的樣態的變化一定要持續來研議最後一個問題我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生\n我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權\n讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內與書面恢復本席可以嗎\n好,謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.890\n教育部部長鄭英耀\n\n00:28.030 --> 00:50.078\n首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug\n\n00:50.638 --> 01:09.336\n有Cyberdrug,這些Bullying有Cyberbullying所以我想我們就來談一下最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人AI教父黃仁勳來台,刮起一陣旋風除了大家關注他在產業上的成就其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示\n\n01:10.077 --> 01:29.214\n年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進\n\n01:32.691 --> 02:01.664\n部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌\n\n02:02.364 --> 02:26.994\n我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%\n\n02:28.835 --> 02:54.096\n相比其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到最後他通報鼓起勇氣通報了結果沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌\n\n02:55.077 --> 03:01.636\n但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您\n\n03:03.519 --> 03:26.754\n所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊\n\n03:29.093 --> 03:30.654\n謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次\n\n03:45.805 --> 03:53.194\n我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就說ActiveInnovativeInnovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動我們的積極我們的創新我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了\n\n04:02.304 --> 04:27.699\n昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長\n\n04:29.942 --> 04:58.465\n首先我想先分享一下這個生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐\n\n05:01.243 --> 05:25.629\n我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那Ednews有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買生成式AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間\n\n05:26.969 --> 05:27.710\n這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?\n\n05:43.903 --> 06:08.176\n所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看\n\n06:10.357 --> 06:36.063\n來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能\n\n06:37.270 --> 06:55.099\n有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被\n\n06:55.759 --> 06:58.481\n有些人稱我為自然其他人稱我為母自然\n\n07:20.014 --> 07:25.798\n好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,您能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?\n\n07:49.800 --> 08:09.928\n我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的\n\n08:11.248 --> 08:23.173\n這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的SeedTTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔\n\n08:32.469 --> 08:57.210\n你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎\n\n08:59.011 --> 09:22.123\n當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法\n\n09:26.783 --> 09:30.967\n謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者\n\n09:48.407 --> 10:04.500\n的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是什麼間接幫手嗎這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子\n\n10:05.040 --> 10:32.102\n可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會VisionPro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售\n\n10:33.223 --> 10:55.661\n今年在台初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出\n\n10:57.242 --> 11:12.032\n根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時這一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過\n\n11:14.554 --> 11:31.762\n然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式\n\n11:33.182 --> 11:44.831\n請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼?\n\n11:58.921 --> 12:21.870\n這個如果涉及到有犯罪行為的話我們警察官可以透過向法官申請讓他下架的一個方式那這位如果涉及到犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦都是境外的公司你怎麼下架然後你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他然後他看不懂沒有回我們就持續這個是有要補充嗎\n\n12:25.410 --> 12:53.618\n如果是有民眾報案遭受霸凌的部分我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制可以協助下架另外我們這個也有針對身為影片影音可以做一個鑑識的機制我想相關的樣態的變化一定要持續來研議最後一個問題我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生\n\n12:54.838 --> 13:15.191\n我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權\n\n13:17.092 --> 13:44.424\n讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內與書面恢復本席可以嗎\n\n13:47.096 --> 13:47.256\n好,謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.89,"text":"教育部部長鄭英耀"},{"start":28.03,"end":50.078,"text":"首先感謝召委安排今天的專報霸凌的議題真的需要更多的重視跟關心尤其我作為阿宅我們更關心許多年輕人成長過程當中會經歷到的事物在實體世界會面臨到的這些風險在虛擬世界也會有這些drug"},{"start":50.638,"end":69.336,"text":"有Cyberdrug,這些Bullying有Cyberbullying所以我想我們就來談一下最近美國半導體大廠NVIDIA的創辦人AI教父黃仁勳來台,刮起一陣旋風除了大家關注他在產業上的成就其實黃仁勳先前也有在媒體上表示"},{"start":70.077,"end":89.214,"text":"年幼的時候他和哥哥一起被父母送到美國由於身材相對的比較矮小而且還有濃厚的外國口音在校園裡頭經常遭受到類似攻擊的行動成為校園霸凌事件的受害者當時他說沒有人可以告訴你怎麼做只能自己堅強起來持續向前邁進"},{"start":92.691,"end":121.664,"text":"部長,黃仁勛先生是很多人的楷模偶像但是他的痛苦遭遇在童年的時候不應該被允許在其他孩子身上再度發生先前我曾就校園霸凌的議題質詢之前的潘文忠前部長根據教育部的統計近年來學生之間主要的霸凌形態正在由傳統的肢體暴力轉變為透過言語甚至是透過網路形態的新形態霸凌"},{"start":122.364,"end":146.994,"text":"我們可以看到這個相關的件數網路霸凌可以說是持續的增加但是呢被驗證為確認霸凌的件數卻因為很難驗證相對的霸凌的樣態新興的樣態的霸凌模式比較模糊啦而且也難以舉證所以呢網路霸凌的確認比例可以說是最低的四年的平均呢基本上只有13.1%"},{"start":148.835,"end":174.096,"text":"相比其他的肢體暴力18%言語暴力18%我們的網路霸凌的確認比例其實是不夠高的而且件數還在持續增加我們當然還要持續關心說這些說是霸凌通報了但是呢卻因為驗證的過程太過困難到最後他通報鼓起勇氣通報了結果沒有辦法被確認他會不會遭受到二次或多次的霸凌"},{"start":175.077,"end":181.636,"text":"但是我想潘元忠前部長顯然沒有把我們之前所跟他提的防制網路霸凌這麼重要的議題交接給您"},{"start":183.519,"end":206.754,"text":"所以我們今天才要再顯示一次這個數字那我們看到這個報告您今天做教育部的書面報告可以得知關於網路霸凌的防制說明竟然不到100個字我們算了一下扣掉標點符號只有短短的89個字我們就在裡面把它圈起來了那請部長解釋一下今天的書面報告完全看不到教育部對於網路霸凌的重視這怎麼回事啊"},{"start":209.093,"end":210.654,"text":"謝謝部長願意承擔,但是我還是要再講一次"},{"start":225.805,"end":233.194,"text":"我們這個內閣從上任的第一天就說Active InnovativeInnovative我從每一次的質詢講到現在我們提到任何一個問題當然你說勇於承擔啦但是我們的主動我們的積極我們的創新我們的重視AI跟虛擬到哪裡去了"},{"start":242.304,"end":267.699,"text":"昨天院會總質詢我在結尾的時候提到我要去告訴別人他們不知道的事給別人看他們看不到的東西這是一一這部電影裡頭的名句這也是我到立法院來所肩負的使命所以即便我們看到教育部這個某種程度有點敷衍了事的態度去面對網路霸凌當然您願意承擔希望趕快補足但是我今天還是要把我們所看到的最新的變化來告訴部長"},{"start":269.942,"end":298.465,"text":"首先我想先分享一下這個生成式AI的使用指引其實也是非常重要的就是AI它有好有壞的地方我們待會會提到AI有點危險的地方但我們先講好的地方就是它可以幫助我們做數位的學習我想知道一下部長您推動將數位學習納入課綱但是部長高中以下學生的生成式AI的使用指引什麼時候可以出爐"},{"start":301.243,"end":325.629,"text":"我們跟委員報告我們在6月底之前會6月底之前喔?是好我們擦亮眼睛等待喔那Ednews有發布2024年的108課綱觀察報告我們來看到學生有高達12%的學生曾經花錢製作學習歷程檔案而且當中以購買生成式AI的服務的比例最高花費百元到千元之間"},{"start":326.969,"end":327.71,"text":"這是我們學習歷程要的東西嗎?這是我們評價學生的方式嗎?"},{"start":343.903,"end":368.176,"text":"所以可以預料未來學生使用AI工具的情況真的會越來越普及我們講到AI平權也要持續提醒部長回去討論一下而且要加速真的AI每個晚上都在變聰明我們沒有辦法一再的去忽略這些點接下來還有可能會有錯誤運用AI工具或誤用的比例還會隨之提高我接下來播放兩段音檔請大家聽聽看"},{"start":370.357,"end":396.063,"text":"來,這個我先給您看一下就是說這還有可能誤用AI是在什麼地方呢?就是霸凌啦這是這個一段影片我們來播播看回到前一頁手動按一下這是什麼?這是CheckGPTS也就是一個免費任何人都可以註冊的服務然後年輕人如果打字問他我怎麼樣提升自己的技能"},{"start":397.27,"end":415.099,"text":"有可能惡意的人士會製作惡意的AI去告訴他你是沒用的你怎麼努力都不會帶來改變這個考慮結束這一切吧這樣子的AI當然是不可以被"},{"start":415.759,"end":418.481,"text":"有些人稱我為自然 其他人稱我為母自然"},{"start":440.014,"end":445.798,"text":"好,我們來看下一段音檔。部長,您能分辨出這兩個音檔哪一個是由AI生成的嗎?"},{"start":469.8,"end":489.928,"text":"我們之前在質詢前行政院長陳建仁的時候我們已經向全國民眾還有官員表示過了從那個時間點開始以後只要有做什麼是AI生成的選擇一律都先回答沒有電子簽章沒有數位簽名驗證全部都是假的"},{"start":491.248,"end":503.173,"text":"這兩個全部是由智捷跳動公司前幾天所發表的Seed TTS的文本轉語音的模型所產生的這還不是什麼恐怖的我們來看下一個音檔我們來看下一個我們再看下一個音檔"},{"start":512.469,"end":537.21,"text":"你為什麼總是重複反同樣的錯誤難道你就不能學習一下嗎這是我的聲音但是不是我有人可以利用我的聲音來霸凌別人這兩段也全部是AI生成的所以任何一個人都可以用任何一個人的聲音來霸凌他身邊的人身邊的家人朋友這個完全在網路上不用任何技術甚至不用任何費用這不可怕嗎"},{"start":539.011,"end":562.123,"text":"當然這裡面還有很多情感勒索的要素我們就不講那麼多但是這個我們希望這個AI淪為霸凌工具有沒有可能去產生當然產生了以後霸凌者到底是AI工具的開發者使用者還是AI本身還是說被誤用聲音的我呢這個部長您能不能分享一下您的想法"},{"start":566.783,"end":570.967,"text":"謝謝您的理解啦怎麼應對嘛誰要負責到最後如果我們教育部沒有處理好很抱歉啦霸凌者"},{"start":588.407,"end":604.5,"text":"的界定大家反而覺得沒有在做這些處理的事情教育部是什麼間接幫手嗎這個一定要來提醒那我們對於教育環境裡的AI真的是不只要胡蘿蔔棍子"},{"start":605.04,"end":632.102,"text":"可能還要有OK繃來幫助這些遭受潛在的AI工具霸凌的內心受創的學生很可能每天都在發聲我們應該要來建立相關的輔導機制接下來我也要來提另外一個問題就是昨天的蘋果發表會Vision Pro將在6月28日跨出美國正式在中國大陸、香港、日本跟新加坡發售"},{"start":633.223,"end":655.661,"text":"今年在台初英國發生了一起不幸的虛擬性侵案那女童本身沒有受到任何身體的傷害但是VR的遊戲極其真實所以呢這一起案件是被受理了那VR遊戲的曾經是體驗讓操控者感同身受彷彿遭受到攻擊而且該報導也指出"},{"start":657.242,"end":672.032,"text":"根據保護兒童組織的估計英國5到10歲的兒童當中15%已經擁有一部VR裝置6%的兒童每天至少會使用一次假設我們的孩子每天使用3小時這一生當中將有10年的時間在虛擬世界裡頭度過"},{"start":674.554,"end":691.762,"text":"然後呢我們這還不是單一事件有其他公司經營的VR線上遊戲也有玩家反應持續在遊戲當中被跟蹤被騷擾而我們現在這種面向未來的減少霸凌的方式完全沒有提到這些新興的形式"},{"start":693.182,"end":704.831,"text":"請問列席的三個部會我們今天不好意思主席跟您借一下時間因為這太重要了教育部、法務部跟內政部警政署目前對於虛擬世界的犯罪行為、霸凌的行為相關的預防策略是什麼?"},{"start":718.921,"end":741.87,"text":"這個如果涉及到有犯罪行為的話我們警察官可以透過向法官申請讓他下架的一個方式那這位如果涉及到犯罪行為會立即分案偵辦都是境外的公司你怎麼下架然後你又要發中文的信件去聯絡他然後他看不懂沒有回我們就持續這個是有要補充嗎"},{"start":745.41,"end":773.618,"text":"如果是有民眾報案遭受霸凌的部分我們可以先利用現有的iWIN機制可以協助下架另外我們這個也有針對身為影片影音可以做一個鑑識的機制我想相關的樣態的變化一定要持續來研議最後一個問題我們現在多了一種新的學生叫做AI我們懇請教育部把AI也當作是一個熱衷學習臺灣本土語言跟文化的外籍生"},{"start":774.838,"end":795.191,"text":"我們有這麼多人AI每天在網路上面上課但是我們台灣的文化台灣的語言本土的語言卻付之缺乳所以學來學去呢台語講不好、客語講不好我們的馬祖語也沒有相關的訊息我們是不是能夠請教育部研議這個在教育部官網建立專區開放授權"},{"start":797.092,"end":824.424,"text":"讓世界各國研發的AI都可以取用我們的本土語言教材有沒有機會來考慮不好意思因為這真的是每天都在變化我們事實上跟委員報告我們現在事實上是有用這個在本土語言已經開始在開發相關的一個教材好我們把教材開放請教育部就開放本土語言相關的語料供AI訓練使用的相關事宜進行研議將相關研議成果一個月內與書面恢復本席可以嗎"},{"start":827.096,"end":827.256,"text":"好,謝謝部長"}]}}}}