{"id":153817,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153817","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81988d2519d09eff3bf0fec08313b105ec0a04e565a7cce14efa8368258a6bc0b115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:02:47 - 10:14:03","影片長度":"00:11:16","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化AI生態系及充實AI人才與產業AI化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧未來」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及6月13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:02:47+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:14:03+08:00","duration":676,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":318,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時2分）謝謝召委，請郭部長。"],["主席：我們請郭部長。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長好。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，在近期以來輝達的旋風席捲全臺，尤其是輝達執行長黃仁勳也特別表示說，臺灣是AI跟半導體產業非常重要的國家，未來會在臺灣設立第二研發中心跟總部，可見得全球科技產業鏈通通會來臺灣投資，但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂，也警示我們說臺灣電力、配電要充足，產業才能來投資，才不會影響到全球整個AI的發展，可是早上我們看到一個新聞，就是美國智庫說臺灣的電力短缺，部長早上的報告裡面也說臺灣的電力是不會缺電的，這樣子的話，那就表示美國智庫在造謠？你要不要抗議？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想美國智庫只是新聞的說明，它是說如果臺灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響，並沒有說臺灣電力是短缺的。"],["呂委員玉玲：它指名是臺灣電力短缺喔。"],["郭部長智輝：他只是假設性的。"],["呂委員玉玲：假設性的，所以你對於我們臺灣的電力是有信心，我們不缺電？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：那些跳電、停電都是動物惹的禍？"],["郭部長智輝：目前來講的話，妥善率其實是有一些不足。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為AI產業，你要拿獲全球的訂單必須要是綠電，2026年要達到20%再生能源的綠電，2030年要達到30%，你一直說有信心，除了用光電，還有我們的離岸風電外，你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力啦！跟委員報告，目前我們有一些新的科技進來，包括地熱、氫能，這些都是我們在考慮的部分。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，部長，本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的離岸風電，我們目前是採取示範獎勵、潛力場址以及區塊開發，已經進入第三階段了，而第二期的選商部分，在6月底以前就要把廠商選出來，能不能完成？為什麼會這樣子問？因為第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了，都已經delay了，在2026年跟2027年你們的併網發電要做到，現在連選商都還沒有完成的話，那會不會第二期也會無限延期下去？這樣就讓你們的離岸風電不能完成了。"],["郭部長智輝：之前會有點延遲，主要是因為世界上的環境影響，歐洲也一直在朝風力發電，所以它有一些船的問題而沒有辦法來到亞洲。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，因為你們第一期延期，成本就提高了，第二期如果再延期的話，成本又會提高，你要怎麼提升，讓產業能夠繼續來臺灣開發？你們的電力要非常非常地充足，他們才能夠成本穩定，也才會有競爭力啊，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是，讓廠商有競爭力，我們會把電價部分做充分的考量。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為你規劃2030年的整個離岸風電總發電量要達到13.1GW，這部分能不能完成？"],["郭部長智輝：以目前的進度，我會督促我們的團隊照表，先把13.1GW這樣的一個目標訂定出來，然後我們逐年、逐月去檢討，檢視過去為什麼會慢，把這個慢的因素拿掉，並且全力去衝刺。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，你要全力衝刺，我希望你們能如期併網發電，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：再來，經濟部撤銷了桃園市府終止3家SRF廠商入駐桃科的處分，請問部長，是你拍板決定的嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個不是我拍板決定的……"],["呂委員玉玲：是誰決定的？"],["郭部長智輝：這是由一個審議委員會開會決定的，他們有11位專家學者。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你們中央一直說尊重地方，地方有自主的裁決權，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以地方做出了決定，要終止它入園，你們到了接受訴願的時候又廢止了這個處分，這樣子你們有尊重到地方嗎？你們在決定這件事情之前，有沒有跟地方去做溝通？"],["郭部長智輝：我們是從法律面去看這件事情，因為入園許可是地方政府的……"],["呂委員玉玲：是地方政府決定的，終止它入園啦！因為考量民眾會受空污的影響，會讓大家的健康堪慮，所以終止了，因此你們就要尊重地方啊！你們為什麼要「橫柴入灶」，一定要這樣做呢？"],["郭部長智輝：不是，我們沒有這個決定權啦！我們只有建議權。"],["呂委員玉玲：那是地方自己決定的嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：是啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以當時部長來我辦公室的時候，我跟你說明得很清楚，因此我相信這件事情你應該是很瞭解的，在王前部長的時候，專案會議、專案許可要讓它進來就是推薦函，結果地方反彈的時候，他說這個只是表述而已，沒有法律效力而收回，兩度收回，去年的11月、12月兩度收回這個推薦函，你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府，而地方政府做出了決定，你又撤銷了它的處分。"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有撤銷它的處分啊！這個是……"],["呂委員玉玲：你現在是撤銷啊！要繼續讓它進來啊！"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，先來訴願，然後這個是訴願會，我們召集專家學者就其內容來做出這樣的一個決定，這裡面有11位委員，有9位是大學教授及法學專家，他們是一致做出這個決定，不是經濟部可以決定的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嘛！中央說要尊重地方，地方做了決定，中央又撤銷了這個處分啊！"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們是讓這個訴願委員會來做決定，不是我們經濟部做決定。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方，就要看到地方的民意，地方重視他們的健康，你們就不要當作沒看到，不顧民意、不顧民眾的健康，到時候我們會努力地來跟你們抗爭。你知道嗎？觀音桃科，3家是固體再生燃料的發電廠，發電廠的廢氣有多大你應該都知道吧！但環境部自己不去修法，排放量的標準不去修法，認為很困難，結果就大開後門，然後大開綠燈讓他們進來，每一次都在專案的，我們桃園去年就已經反對了，在鄭前市長的時候就已經反對了，你們用專案要讓它入園，結果後來又說選舉期間到了要尊重地方，他們自己決定，沒有法律效力，地方做出決定之後，你們又說專家委員大家決定的，要撤銷他們的處分，都跟你們沒關係，甩鍋給地方嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們經濟部本來就不是對工業區有主管的權力。"],["呂委員玉玲：這是經濟部你們的專案會議耶！部長，王美花部長就開了這個專案會議，你們能源局給他們同意這個設備的文件，這都是你們整個發下來的，不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊！"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在這個問題已經是實際上存在的，我現在跟桃園市政府也都在協商如何處理這個問題，那麼因為現在環境部有提出它的態度，就是入園許可必須用歐盟的標準，也就是……"],["呂委員玉玲：那你們修法啊！"],["郭部長智輝：對，我們要來……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們就去修法啊！"],["郭部長智輝：對，我們要討論這個事情，要很快的……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們修的法，我們會依法去嚴格審查其標準，多少面積有多少的排放，就是固定的啊，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：是的、是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以在這之前你們就要尊重地方。"],["郭部長智輝：我們是尊重地方才會進行到這樣子。"],["呂委員玉玲：你說這個決定權在於地方啊，是不是？"],["郭部長智輝：對啊！因為現在桃園市政府要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法，所以我們現在提出一個新的定位，就是……"],["呂委員玉玲：在你們還沒有決定下來，我不曉得這一再地被撤回、一再地禁止入園，一而再，再而三，從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部，不曉得後面有什麼龐大的勢力還是有什麼利益，你們一定要幫他們開綠燈，一定要讓他們進來？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個是完全沒有的事情……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長……"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在就是趕快來解決這個問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：我必須要說，我們共同都有討論到，臺灣電力是要穩定供電，不論是我們整個產業、AI或半導體等等，我們要穩定供電，所以我們才講說現在電力真的是不足，連國際的美國智庫都這麼說了，因此我們要努力，尤其是綠電的問題。但是部長，當時我們討論的時候，我們要讓電力穩定就必須要把核能列入考量，做基載的用電才能夠穩定，結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回歸一下，你回來就說非核家園還是最終的目標。"],["郭部長智輝：這個是依法啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：依法？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是電力不穩定的話，我們臺灣怎麼發展？我們的AI怎麼發展？全球的產業鏈要怎麼來投資呢？"],["郭部長智輝：這個我們會努力，因為現在發電的方法還是有很多。"],["呂委員玉玲：不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電，就要讓3個廢棄物的發電廠在觀音桃科這邊，危害我們鄉親的健康，部長，請你們要尊重民意，也尊重地方政府，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 669.715, \"end\": 669.835, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 669.835, \"end\": 670.175, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 670.175, \"end\": 670.616, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 670.616, \"end\": 670.636, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:11,746\n我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝朝委請郭部長我們請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:19,448 --> 00:00:40,107\n部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣\n\n3\n00:00:41,108 --> 00:01:02,416\n在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說台灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫\n\n4\n00:01:03,436 --> 00:01:32,151\n美國智庫說台灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說台灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果台灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說台灣這個電力他指明是台灣電力短缺\n\n5\n00:01:32,671 --> 00:01:41,629\n他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍\n\n6\n00:01:43,243 --> 00:02:06,772\n目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢\n\n7\n00:02:07,432 --> 00:02:27,779\n我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前的是採取示範獎勵跟我們的\n\n8\n00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:36,364\n建立廠子還有區塊開發已經進入第三階段了我們第二期的選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電併網發電你要做到\n\n9\n00:02:58,976 --> 00:03:25,947\n那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不讓你的這個離岸風電不能完成了在之前會有點這個延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的這個環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個\n\n10\n00:03:28,309 --> 00:03:52,646\n因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力是不是是讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量\n\n11\n00:03:53,851 --> 00:03:55,393\n因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW13.1GW能不能完成\n\n12\n00:04:07,642 --> 00:04:36,260\n我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去充斥是你要全力充斥我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下\n\n13\n00:04:38,081 --> 00:04:54,731\n經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的\n\n14\n00:05:01,789 --> 00:05:29,262\n部長在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的\n\n15\n00:05:30,629 --> 00:05:50,034\n我們是從法律面去看的啦這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊\n\n16\n00:05:51,021 --> 00:06:00,115\n你為什麼要懷才知道?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方是你決定了嘛\n\n17\n00:06:01,507 --> 00:06:27,320\n所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函\n\n18\n00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:57,119\n那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我\n\n19\n00:06:58,220 --> 00:07:09,473\n所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定\n\n20\n00:07:11,462 --> 00:07:28,047\n部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為\n\n21\n00:07:29,207 --> 00:07:49,852\n你知道嗎這觀音陶科啊三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大你應該都知道吧那你們呢你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法這個是標準排廢量的標準你不去修法認為很困難結果你就大開後門然後大開綠燈讓他們進來\n\n22\n00:07:53,874 --> 00:08:19,280\n每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩布給地方嗎\n\n23\n00:08:20,356 --> 00:08:43,324\n我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的\n\n24\n00:08:47,145 --> 00:09:02,133\n我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊\n\n25\n00:09:03,193 --> 00:09:24,554\n我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情要很快的你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的是的是不是是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方是我們是尊重地方才會你這樣你說地方是決定全賽的地方啊對啊是不是對\n\n26\n00:09:25,925 --> 00:09:41,515\n所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開綠燈一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情\n\n27\n00:09:56,305 --> 00:10:14,925\n我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長\n\n28\n00:10:18,656 --> 00:10:37,847\n當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標\n\n29\n00:10:39,958 --> 00:11:05,051\n這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康\n\n30\n00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:10,636\n部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t11746\t我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝朝委 請郭部長我們請郭部長\n19448\t40107\t部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣\n41108\t62416\t在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說台灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫\n63436\t92151\t美國智庫說台灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說台灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果台灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說台灣這個電力他指明是台灣電力短缺\n92671\t101629\t他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍\n103243\t126772\t目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢\n127432\t147779\t我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前的是採取示範獎勵跟我們的\n149620\t156364\t建立廠子還有區塊開發已經進入第三階段了我們第二期的選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電併網發電你要做到\n178976\t205947\t那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不讓你的這個離岸風電不能完成了在之前會有點這個延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的這個環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個\n208309\t232646\t因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力 是不是是 讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量\n233851\t235393\t因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW13.1GW能不能完成\n247642\t276260\t我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去充斥是你要全力充斥我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下\n278081\t294731\t經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的\n301789\t329262\t部長在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的\n330629\t350034\t我們是從法律面去看的啦這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊\n351021\t360115\t你為什麼要懷才知道?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方是你決定了嘛\n361507\t387320\t所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函\n388180\t417119\t那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我\n418220\t429473\t所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定\n431462\t448047\t部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為\n449207\t469852\t你知道嗎 這觀音陶科啊 三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大 你應該都知道吧那你們呢 你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法 這個是標準排廢量的標準 你不去修法 認為很困難結果你就大開後門 然後大開綠燈 讓他們進來\n473874\t499280\t每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩布給地方嗎\n500356\t523324\t我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的\n527145\t542133\t我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊\n543193\t564554\t我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情要很快的你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的 是的是不是 是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方是 我們是尊重地方才會你這樣你說地方是決定全賽的地方啊對啊 是不是 對\n565925\t581515\t所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開綠燈一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情\n596305\t614925\t我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長\n618656\t637847\t當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標\n639958\t665051\t這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康\n665970\t670636\t部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好謝謝\n","txt":"我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝朝委 請郭部長我們請郭部長\n部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣\n在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說台灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫\n美國智庫說台灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說台灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果台灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說台灣這個電力他指明是台灣電力短缺\n他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍\n目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢\n我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前的是採取示範獎勵跟我們的\n建立廠子還有區塊開發已經進入第三階段了我們第二期的選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電併網發電你要做到\n那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不讓你的這個離岸風電不能完成了在之前會有點這個延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的這個環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個\n因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力 是不是是 讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量\n因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW13.1GW能不能完成\n我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去充斥是你要全力充斥我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下\n經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的\n部長在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的\n我們是從法律面去看的啦這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊\n你為什麼要懷才知道?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方是你決定了嘛\n所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函\n那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我\n所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定\n部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為\n你知道嗎 這觀音陶科啊 三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大 你應該都知道吧那你們呢 你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法 這個是標準排廢量的標準 你不去修法 認為很困難結果你就大開後門 然後大開綠燈 讓他們進來\n每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩布給地方嗎\n我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的\n我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊\n我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情要很快的你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的 是的是不是 是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方是 我們是尊重地方才會你這樣你說地方是決定全賽的地方啊對啊 是不是 對\n所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開綠燈一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情\n我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長\n當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標\n這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康\n部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:11.746\n我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝朝委請郭部長我們請郭部長\n\n00:19.448 --> 00:40.107\n部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣\n\n00:41.108 --> 01:02.416\n在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說台灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫\n\n01:03.436 --> 01:32.151\n美國智庫說台灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說台灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果台灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說台灣這個電力他指明是台灣電力短缺\n\n01:32.671 --> 01:41.629\n他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍\n\n01:43.243 --> 02:06.772\n目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢\n\n02:07.432 --> 02:27.779\n我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前的是採取示範獎勵跟我們的\n\n02:29.620 --> 02:36.364\n建立廠子還有區塊開發已經進入第三階段了我們第二期的選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電併網發電你要做到\n\n02:58.976 --> 03:25.947\n那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不讓你的這個離岸風電不能完成了在之前會有點這個延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的這個環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個\n\n03:28.309 --> 03:52.646\n因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力是不是是讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量\n\n03:53.851 --> 03:55.393\n因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW13.1GW能不能完成\n\n04:07.642 --> 04:36.260\n我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去充斥是你要全力充斥我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下\n\n04:38.081 --> 04:54.731\n經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的\n\n05:01.789 --> 05:29.262\n部長在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的\n\n05:30.629 --> 05:50.034\n我們是從法律面去看的啦這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊\n\n05:51.021 --> 06:00.115\n你為什麼要懷才知道?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方是你決定了嘛\n\n06:01.507 --> 06:27.320\n所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函\n\n06:28.180 --> 06:57.119\n那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我\n\n06:58.220 --> 07:09.473\n所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定\n\n07:11.462 --> 07:28.047\n部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為\n\n07:29.207 --> 07:49.852\n你知道嗎這觀音陶科啊三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大你應該都知道吧那你們呢你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法這個是標準排廢量的標準你不去修法認為很困難結果你就大開後門然後大開綠燈讓他們進來\n\n07:53.874 --> 08:19.280\n每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩布給地方嗎\n\n08:20.356 --> 08:43.324\n我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的\n\n08:47.145 --> 09:02.133\n我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊\n\n09:03.193 --> 09:24.554\n我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情要很快的你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的是的是不是是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方是我們是尊重地方才會你這樣你說地方是決定全賽的地方啊對啊是不是對\n\n09:25.925 --> 09:41.515\n所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開綠燈一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情\n\n09:56.305 --> 10:14.925\n我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長\n\n10:18.656 --> 10:37.847\n當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標\n\n10:39.958 --> 11:05.051\n這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康\n\n11:05.970 --> 11:10.636\n部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":11.746,"text":"我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝朝委 請郭部長我們請郭部長"},{"start":19.448,"end":40.107,"text":"部長好委員好部長在近期來輝達的旋風席捲全台那尤其是輝達的執行長黃仁勳他也特別表示說台灣AI跟我們的半導體產業是非常重要的國家未來會在台灣會設立第二的研發中心跟總部這可見得台灣"},{"start":41.108,"end":62.416,"text":"在全球的科技產業鏈通通會來台灣來投資但是黃仁勳臨走的時候特別擔憂也警示我們說台灣電力整個配電的要充足產業才能來投資才不會影響到全球的發展整個AI的發展可是早上我們看到一個新聞就是美國智庫"},{"start":63.436,"end":92.151,"text":"美國智庫說台灣的電力短缺部長早上的報告裡面也說台灣的電力是不會缺電的那這樣子的話那是表示美國智庫在造謠那你要不要抗議報告委員我想美國智庫他只是他的那個新聞的這個說明他是說如果台灣電力短缺會造成世界經濟的影響並沒有說台灣這個電力他指明是台灣電力短缺"},{"start":92.671,"end":101.629,"text":"他只是假設性的假設性的那所以你對於我們台灣電力是有信心我們不缺電是的那那跳電停電都是動物惹的禍"},{"start":103.243,"end":126.772,"text":"目前來講的話這個妥善率其實是有一些不足因為AI產業的話你要拿到全球的訂單必須要是綠電那你2026年的話要達到20%的再生能源的綠電2030年要達到30%你一直說有信心除了用光電除了還有我們的離岸風電外你還有什麼方式可以達成你的信心呢"},{"start":127.432,"end":147.779,"text":"我們現在朝著這兩個方面在努力跟委員報告說現在我們有一些新的科技進來包括地熱、包括氫能這些都是我們在考慮的部分是,好,部長本席會這麼講的原因就是因為我們再生能源的話離岸風電我們目前的是採取示範獎勵跟我們的"},{"start":149.62,"end":156.364,"text":"建立廠子還有區塊開發已經進入第三階段了我們第二期的選廠商在6月底前都要把這個廠商給選出來那能不能完成為什麼這樣子問因為你第一期的區塊開發就已經延期了都已經delay了在2026年跟2027年你的併電併網發電你要做到"},{"start":178.976,"end":205.947,"text":"那現在你連選商都還沒有完成的話那會不會等第二期也會無限的延期下去就不讓你的這個離岸風電不能完成了在之前會有點這個延遲主要是因為這個世界上面的這個環境的影響那這個歐洲它也一直在朝這個風力在這邊發電所以它有一些這個船的問題沒有辦法來到我們這個"},{"start":208.309,"end":232.646,"text":"因為你第一期延期成本就提高了第二期的話你如果再延期的話成本又會提高你要怎麼提升這樣產業能夠繼續的來台灣開發你的電力是要非常非常的充足他們才能夠成本穩定才會有競爭力 是不是是 讓這個廠商有競爭力我們會把這個電價的部分做充分的考量"},{"start":233.851,"end":235.393,"text":"因為你規劃說2030年我們整個離岸風電它的這整個總發電量要達到13.1GW13.1GW能不能完成"},{"start":247.642,"end":276.26,"text":"我想以目前的這個進度我會督促我們的這個團隊照表就先把這個計畫13.6G的這樣的一個目標訂出來然後我們逐年逐月去檢討然後過去為什麼會慢把這個慢的因素拿掉然後這個全力去充斥是你要全力充斥我希望你能如期並往發電好不好是再來部長請教一下"},{"start":278.081,"end":294.731,"text":"經濟部撤銷了桃園市市府終止三家SRF入住桃科的處分請問部長是你拍板決定的嗎?這個不是我拍板決定這個是有一個審議委員會有11位專家學者然後他們開會決定的"},{"start":301.789,"end":329.262,"text":"部長在你們中央一直說尊重地方地方有自主的裁決權是不是那所以地方做出了決定要終止它入園那你們到了接受這個這個溯源的時候你們又廢止了我們這個處分那這樣子的話你有尊重到地方嗎你在決定這些事情之前有沒有跟我們地方去溝通的"},{"start":330.629,"end":350.034,"text":"我們是從法律面去看的啦這件事情因為那個入園許可是地方政府的是地方政府的地方政府決定了嘛終止他入園啦要考量民眾大家對空屋的影響會讓大家的健康堪慮所以終止了所以你就要尊重地方啊"},{"start":351.021,"end":360.115,"text":"你為什麼要懷才知道?一定要這樣做呢?不是,我們沒有這個決定權那地方是你決定了嘛"},{"start":361.507,"end":387.32,"text":"所以當時部長你來我辦公室的時候我跟你說明了很清楚所以我相信你這件事情你應該是很了解的在當時的王前部長的時候專案會議專案許可要讓他進來就是推薦函結果我們地方反彈的時候他說這個只是表述而已沒有法律效益收回兩度收回11月去年的11月12月兩度收回這個推薦函"},{"start":388.18,"end":417.119,"text":"那所以說你們又一直表示說尊重地方政府那地方政府做出了決定你又撤銷了他的處分我沒有撤銷他的處分啊你現在撤銷啊要繼續要他進來啊正來書院然後這個是書院會我們召集專家、學者就他的這個內容來做出這個這樣的一個決定這裡面11位的委員有9位是大學教授跟這個法學專家所以他們一致做出這個決定不是我"},{"start":418.22,"end":429.473,"text":"所以這個決定權不在地方政府了嗎?中央說尊重地方,地方做了決定,中央又撤銷了這個處分啊所以我們是讓這個書院委員會來做決定,不是我們經濟部做決定"},{"start":431.462,"end":448.047,"text":"部長我們希望我們的政府既然尊重地方就要看到地方的民意地方重視他們的健康你們就不要當作沒看到不顧民意不顧民眾的健康到時候我們會努力的來跟你們抗爭因為"},{"start":449.207,"end":469.852,"text":"你知道嗎 這觀音陶科啊 三家這個是固體的發電廠這發電廠的廢棄有多大 你應該都知道吧那你們呢 你們的那個環境部環境部你自己不去修法 這個是標準排廢量的標準 你不去修法 認為很困難結果你就大開後門 然後大開綠燈 讓他們進來"},{"start":473.874,"end":499.28,"text":"每一次都在專案的我們桃園去年就已經反對了在陣前市長的時候就已經反對了你們用專案要他入園那結果後來又說選舉期限到了要尊重地方你們自己決定沒有法律效益那地方做出決定之後你們又說專家委員大家決定的要撤銷你的處分都跟你們沒關係甩布給地方嗎"},{"start":500.356,"end":523.324,"text":"我們經濟部本來就不是這個對這個工業區有主管的權利這委員會經濟部你們的專案會議部長王美花部長就開了專案會議你們能源局的給他們這個同意這個設備的這個文件這都是你們這整個發下來的不是跟經濟部沒有關係啊報告委員現在這個問題已經是實際上是存在的"},{"start":527.145,"end":542.133,"text":"我現在跟這個台灣市政府我們也都在協商如何處理這個問題那麼現在環境部他有提出他的態度就是說入園許可必須用歐盟的標準那你不修法啊"},{"start":543.193,"end":564.554,"text":"我們就去修法我們要討論這個事情要很快的你的修法我們會依法去嚴格審查它的標準多少面積有多少的排放就是固定的 是的是不是 是所以在製之前你們就要尊重地方是 我們是尊重地方才會你這樣你說地方是決定全賽的地方啊對啊 是不是 對"},{"start":565.925,"end":581.515,"text":"所以現在台灣市政府他現在要求我們要給一個國際的定位跟管理的辦法所以我們現在提出一個新的這個定位在你們還沒決定下來我不曉得這個一再的被撤回一再的禁止入園一而再再而再從前朝的經濟部到現在的經濟部不曉得後面有什麼龐大的這個勢力還是有什麼利益你們一定要幫他們開綠燈一定要讓他們進來報告委員這個是完全沒有的事情"},{"start":596.305,"end":614.925,"text":"我們現在就是說我必須要說我們共同都有討論到台灣電力是要穩定供電不管我們整個產業AI或者是半導體等等我們要穩定供電所以我們還想說現在電力真的是不足連國際連美國智庫都這麼說了所以我們要努力尤其是綠電的問題那但是部長"},{"start":618.656,"end":637.847,"text":"當時我們討論的時候我們必須要讓電力穩定必須要把核能列入考量做機載的用電才能夠穩定結果你現在被民進黨的高層校正回饋一下你就回來就爽說非核加鹽還是最終的目標"},{"start":639.958,"end":665.051,"text":"這個是依法啦依法可是電力不穩定的話我們台灣怎麼發展我們的AI怎麼發展全球的產業鏈都怎麼來投資呢這個我們會努力因為現在發電的方法還是有很多不要因為沒有辦法拿到綠電就要我們桃科、觀音三個廢棄物的發電廠在我們這邊危害我們鄉親的健康"},{"start":665.97,"end":670.636,"text":"部長請你們要尊重民意也尊重我們地方政府好不好是好謝謝"}]}}}}