{"id":153818,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153818","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd819d0c3d9e205feffba182e407f268492bca04e565a7cce14ef8d3a92de4e1420655ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:04:34 - 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\"end\": 682.7, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 682.7, \"end\": 682.78, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 682.78, \"end\": 682.86, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 682.86, \"end\": 683.04, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 683.04, \"end\": 683.2, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 683.2, \"end\": 683.221, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,323 --> 00:00:08,586\n有請金管會主委及銀行局莊局長\n\n2\n00:00:15,578 --> 00:00:34,847\n主委早安主委我想今天針對的就是我們的虛擬資產這個議題我來跟你做一個討論我想虛擬資產的一個洗錢的一個涉案其實在國內我們現在看得到的就是說在檯面上就是在這個\n\n3\n00:00:37,288 --> 00:00:58,928\n9月份的時候就是碧安協助我們處理一個案子那這個是2億那顯然就是說這個是目前我們看得到的最大的一筆數字那虛擬資產成為詐騙集團熱門的一個洗錢的工具其實已經是好幾年了那這好幾年顯然大家都沒有比較好的一個辦法\n\n4\n00:01:00,129 --> 00:01:20,094\n那甚至就是說我們鄭麒麒那個副局長在那個九月份的時候他有講到他就是說不是不是在九月份講到他去年發布了一個指導的原則他希望業者在這個基礎上要自立那逐步發展其他的一個比較政策面的\n\n5\n00:01:21,955 --> 00:01:26,359\n委外研究報告在今年9月會完成其期末報告\n\n6\n00:01:42,218 --> 00:02:10,299\n現在我們就是因為這個是全世界都面臨到這樣的一個挑戰比如說像我們看我們鄰近像比如說香港、新加坡他們是去年才開了納管大家的做法都差不多都是先從洗錢防制開始所以我們覺得說現在我們也是按部就班的來做因為畢竟這是一個在演化中的產業我們也希望說先針對比如說現在一些主流的幣來進行管理一個演化中的一個產業你在明年六月你要把它送到立法院來\n\n7\n00:02:11,460 --> 00:02:38,771\n我們希望能夠提草案對是在這裡我想就是跟你探討了就是說我們要給虛擬資產一個合法的地位嗎這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在我們那個有形的一個資產裡頭其實我們在進行黃幣的討論的時候我們已經面臨到了很大的一個困境就是說我們現有的銀行現有的一個資產其實我們在黃幣打炸的時候\n\n8\n00:02:40,172 --> 00:02:51,849\n這個我們都已經是很多的一個弊端都呈現出來我們無法可管那相對的數位時代來臨了我們這些年長的長輩反而成為這個數位化的一個弱勢\n\n9\n00:02:55,073 --> 00:03:13,981\n這個看起來是說我用一個案例就是說這個是在3月9號他所做的一個報導一個70多歲的老太太他3月初才跟保險公司開了一個網路的一個服務結果他7張保單在一個夜內都被解約領走了有的被拿去值戒了\n\n10\n00:03:14,912 --> 00:03:34,132\n那有的就是做其他的用途那合計的金額上千萬結果後來這個老太太發現不對了她跑到保險公司去她去跟她這個要回保單的恢復原狀當然她是遭到詐騙集團的一個冒名的一個申辦可是保險公司拒絕她了\n\n11\n00:03:35,617 --> 00:04:04,457\n這個我們有法可管嗎?無法可管所以我們很遺憾發生這個案子不過就是這個假設是詐騙集團我們現在一定會看看保險公司有沒有責任那再來就是說如果它是一個詐騙人對主委我現在講的這個案例就是說本席的選區其實很多的老人那如果這一個新寧貨幣新寧貨幣的一個產業讓它再有一個合法的地位的時候那不是被騙得更慘嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:06,078 --> 00:04:23,874\n現在有形的一個金融產業都已經是環不勝環了那現在怎麼辦呢那我們只看到說金管會定期會在公告詐騙手法放在你的官網上讓民眾來參閱那警政署也會在社區做很多環詐的一個宣傳\n\n13\n00:04:24,915 --> 00:04:47,912\n你看喔,我們已經花了那麼多的一個力氣北溪這幾天回到地方去跑那個端午節的一個活動我常常就看到了警政署就是在每一個我們的派出所所長他們都到現場去做詐騙的一個宣傳所以我們都告訴那一些長輩告訴那些現有社區的這一些人出來了我們就告訴他說\n\n14\n00:04:49,173 --> 00:05:11,743\n你們要怎麼樣怎麼樣只要有跟錢的相關的你們就是要謹慎好那甚至就是在銀行裡頭的零貴都被騙了那更何況是數位呢那前警政署長他曾經講在2023年他的一個記者會上他提到了光是2022年他的報案量就有3萬多件可是\n\n15\n00:05:12,883 --> 00:05:29,669\n僅有攔截8000多件你看這個不符合比例啊不符合比例啊所以我還是再一次請問主委我們要給虛擬貨幣這一個專法給它一個合法的地位嗎你個人的看法是怎麼樣\n\n16\n00:05:32,612 --> 00:05:57,914\n謝謝委員我充分理解委員剛剛提的顧慮我們現在就是沒有專法的情況之下它有這麼多的狀況那當然比如說我們當我們給予一個執照我們主管機關就要非常非常的謹慎因為也代表我們的承擔我們必須要把這些把它導正化所以這是當然是有個兩難但是我覺得我們整體評估而言政府責無旁貸\n\n17\n00:05:59,035 --> 00:06:23,321\n要擔起這些管理的責任但是對於不法的我們要嚴重於打擊那你有辦法管嗎你的人力有辦法管嗎你看銀行人員不正當的挪用這個款項的案件都頻傳了那你主詐的同時你怎麼避免內部人的不法行為那你可以抓他這個你還可以抓他這個你還管得到可是在吸引貨幣合法之後貨幣商有辦法跟營養合法合規嗎\n\n18\n00:06:26,182 --> 00:06:49,253\n這個就是我們未來努力的目標剛剛跟委員跟大家報告就是說我們希望法制逐漸完備比如說我們先採洗錢防制法登記制登記制某種程度你要滿足我們現在全國一致的洗房標準我們要合法合規合法合規我來追幾個案子那個銀行局局長在這一個就是天空塔在\n\n19\n00:06:50,413 --> 00:07:13,345\n天空塔的弊案持續在發酵的時候那我在這裡請教你我們有繼續追蹤就是說這一個天空塔這一個弊案就是說蔡永毅他在放貸的過程裡頭他有沒有介入他有沒有在核貸的時候有沒有特別的寬鬆有沒有就是說去脅迫我們的同仁來配合呢\n\n20\n00:07:14,534 --> 00:07:24,709\n你們有查到這樣子嗎報告委員這個案子的話其實就是報導已經開始揭露的時候其實我沒有請因為兆豐銀行是主辦行所以其實我沒有請兆豐銀行提出報告\n\n21\n00:07:30,578 --> 00:07:57,306\n那依照兆豐銀行的報告來看的話他目前一切都還是在正常的狀況之下那至於他們內部放貸的過程當中他目前也認為說查核的結果是沒有問題是沒有好這個局長你回答我是沒有你看可能是他認為你們查不出來他還可以再掛疑一個就是說前兆豐總經理\n\n22\n00:07:58,886 --> 00:08:14,033\n蔡永毅他還可以掛一個資深合夥人啊掛一個就是這個蔡永毅他在掏空的嫌疑人邱冠興就是他的盛景公司他還可以掛一個資深的合理人顯然就是他認為你們抓不到嘛\n\n23\n00:08:14,733 --> 00:08:31,474\n那抓不到為什麼會有這麼大的一個弊案啊那相對的好局長我再請問你就是對於租賃公司這一個無牌的高利貸的這個租賃公司那銀行能不能逐筆去檢查啊你有追嗎這個案子你有追嗎\n\n24\n00:08:33,337 --> 00:08:55,024\n請說明報告委員分成兩個部分就剛剛委員關心的那個部分基本上還是銀行的放貸所以不是租賃公司但如果回到租賃公司的話那個是不是有你是一直在強調就是說他拿著合法的銀行的錢然後去做\n\n25\n00:08:56,124 --> 00:09:10,149\n超高利的高利貸超過22倍那你有沒有足比去檢查顯然到這個時候我已經問了好幾次了你們也沒有辦法正向的在回答我好局長你的人夠不夠呢\n\n26\n00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:28,898\n你的銀行的內控的一個機制裡頭又要灌金融詐騙又要灌這個融資租賃又要灌洗錢防制又要灌貸錢貸後那到底你的錢那個你的人夠不夠你的人到底夠不夠\n\n27\n00:09:30,069 --> 00:09:54,903\n報告委員謝謝委員關心確實是後來必須要規範或者是要管理的範圍確實擴大不過這個部分的話其實行政院也在關心這件事情所以在緣額增加上面也請我們再考慮增加緣額要增加多少這個我想在這裡跟金管會主委做一個這個探討啦美國年準會它\n\n28\n00:09:55,643 --> 00:10:15,195\n有2.4萬人他處理3.3億人的人跟事跟物他的貨幣他的貸款可是相對的我們央行裡頭有866個人銀行局才212個人那如果照這個數字來算的話我想這個銀行局也應該要有1600個人\n\n29\n00:10:16,656 --> 00:10:25,773\n所以銀行局的人太少了嘛那你太少了你還要他去管這麼多的事情那當然是成效一定不好的啊那你怎麼改進呢\n\n30\n00:10:26,674 --> 00:10:54,936\n這個我們當然謝謝委員的關心這個確實是應該是大部分公務機關面臨到的問題特別是金管會其實蠻嚴重因為社會對金管會有很多肯定也期待希望我們把很多新興的行業納管當然是期待啊因為我們的錢會被騙啊那你的人不夠啊你怎麼去管控他啦你獅子銀行的問題沒有辦法解決的時候你還要再處理你的虛擬資產你有那麼大的一個能量嗎\n\n31\n00:10:56,509 --> 00:11:16,524\n現在確實我們現在人力上是非常吃緊不過即便在這樣的情況之下我們要繼續被騙沒有沒有我們還是會持續的努力但是我們也希望說未來能夠爭取我跟你講它在未來虛擬貨幣這一個專法那個通過的時候他們會做了很多很多的一個宣傳這是政府認定的喔這是國家認定的喔你們的錢我們這裡賭注沒問題喔\n\n32\n00:11:19,757 --> 00:11:23,221\n對這個市場行為的監控我們一定會加強我們就要努力了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5323\t8586\t有請金管會主委及銀行局莊局長\n15578\t34847\t主委早安主委我想今天針對的就是我們的虛擬資產這個議題我來跟你做一個討論我想虛擬資產的一個洗錢的一個涉案其實在國內我們現在看得到的就是說在檯面上就是在這個\n37288\t58928\t9月份的時候就是碧安協助我們處理一個案子那這個是2億那顯然就是說這個是目前我們看得到的最大的一筆數字那虛擬資產成為詐騙集團熱門的一個洗錢的工具其實已經是好幾年了那這好幾年顯然大家都沒有比較好的一個辦法\n60129\t80094\t那甚至就是說我們鄭麒麒那個副局長在那個九月份的時候他有講到他就是說不是不是在九月份講到他去年發布了一個指導的原則他希望業者在這個基礎上要自立那逐步發展其他的一個比較政策面的\n81955\t86359\t委外研究報告在今年9月會完成其期末報告\n102218\t130299\t現在我們就是因為這個是全世界都面臨到這樣的一個挑戰比如說像我們看我們鄰近像比如說香港、新加坡他們是去年才開了納管大家的做法都差不多都是先從洗錢防制開始所以我們覺得說現在我們也是按部就班的來做因為畢竟這是一個在演化中的產業我們也希望說先針對比如說現在一些主流的幣來進行管理一個演化中的一個產業你在明年六月你要把它送到立法院來\n131460\t158771\t我們希望能夠提草案對是在這裡我想就是跟你探討了就是說我們要給虛擬資產一個合法的地位嗎這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在我們那個有形的一個資產裡頭其實我們在進行黃幣的討論的時候我們已經面臨到了很大的一個困境就是說我們現有的銀行現有的一個資產其實我們在黃幣打炸的時候\n160172\t171849\t這個我們都已經是很多的一個弊端都呈現出來我們無法可管那相對的數位時代來臨了我們這些年長的長輩反而成為這個數位化的一個弱勢\n175073\t193981\t這個看起來是說我用一個案例就是說這個是在3月9號他所做的一個報導一個70多歲的老太太他3月初才跟保險公司開了一個網路的一個服務結果他7張保單在一個夜內都被解約領走了有的被拿去值戒了\n194912\t214132\t那有的就是做其他的用途那合計的金額上千萬結果後來這個老太太發現不對了她跑到保險公司去她去跟她這個要回保單的恢復原狀當然她是遭到詐騙集團的一個冒名的一個申辦可是保險公司拒絕她了\n215617\t244457\t這個我們有法可管嗎?無法可管所以我們很遺憾發生這個案子不過就是這個假設是詐騙集團我們現在一定會看看保險公司有沒有責任那再來就是說如果它是一個詐騙人對主委我現在講的這個案例就是說本席的選區其實很多的老人那如果這一個新寧貨幣新寧貨幣的一個產業讓它再有一個合法的地位的時候那不是被騙得更慘嗎?\n246078\t263874\t現在有形的一個金融產業都已經是環不勝環了那現在怎麼辦呢那我們只看到說金管會定期會在公告詐騙手法放在你的官網上讓民眾來參閱那警政署也會在社區做很多環詐的一個宣傳\n264915\t287912\t你看喔,我們已經花了那麼多的一個力氣北溪這幾天回到地方去跑那個端午節的一個活動我常常就看到了警政署就是在每一個我們的派出所所長他們都到現場去做詐騙的一個宣傳所以我們都告訴那一些長輩告訴那些現有社區的這一些人出來了我們就告訴他說\n289173\t311743\t你們要怎麼樣怎麼樣只要有跟錢的相關的你們就是要謹慎好那甚至就是在銀行裡頭的零貴都被騙了那更何況是數位呢那前警政署長他曾經講在2023年他的一個記者會上他提到了光是2022年他的報案量就有3萬多件可是\n312883\t329669\t僅有攔截8000多件你看這個不符合比例啊不符合比例啊所以我還是再一次請問主委我們要給虛擬貨幣這一個專法給它一個合法的地位嗎你個人的看法是怎麼樣\n332612\t357914\t謝謝委員我充分理解委員剛剛提的顧慮我們現在就是沒有專法的情況之下它有這麼多的狀況那當然比如說我們當我們給予一個執照我們主管機關就要非常非常的謹慎因為也代表我們的承擔我們必須要把這些把它導正化所以這是當然是有個兩難但是我覺得我們整體評估而言政府責無旁貸\n359035\t383321\t要擔起這些管理的責任但是對於不法的我們要嚴重於打擊那你有辦法管嗎你的人力有辦法管嗎你看銀行人員不正當的挪用這個款項的案件都頻傳了那你主詐的同時你怎麼避免內部人的不法行為那你可以抓他這個你還可以抓他這個你還管得到可是在吸引貨幣合法之後貨幣商有辦法跟營養合法合規嗎\n386182\t409253\t這個就是我們未來努力的目標剛剛跟委員跟大家報告就是說我們希望法制逐漸完備比如說我們先採洗錢防制法登記制登記制某種程度你要滿足我們現在全國一致的洗房標準我們要合法合規合法合規我來追幾個案子那個銀行局局長在這一個就是天空塔在\n410413\t433345\t天空塔的弊案持續在發酵的時候那我在這裡請教你我們有繼續追蹤就是說這一個天空塔這一個弊案就是說蔡永毅他在放貸的過程裡頭他有沒有介入他有沒有在核貸的時候有沒有特別的寬鬆有沒有就是說去脅迫我們的同仁來配合呢\n434534\t444709\t你們有查到這樣子嗎報告委員這個案子的話其實就是報導已經開始揭露的時候其實我沒有請因為兆豐銀行是主辦行所以其實我沒有請兆豐銀行提出報告\n450578\t477306\t那依照兆豐銀行的報告來看的話他目前一切都還是在正常的狀況之下那至於他們內部放貸的過程當中他目前也認為說查核的結果是沒有問題是沒有好 這個局長你回答我是沒有你看可能是他認為你們查不出來他還可以再掛疑一個就是說前兆豐總經理\n478886\t494033\t蔡永毅他還可以掛一個資深合夥人啊掛一個就是這個蔡永毅他在掏空的嫌疑人邱冠興就是他的盛景公司他還可以掛一個資深的合理人顯然就是他認為你們抓不到嘛\n494733\t511474\t那抓不到為什麼會有這麼大的一個弊案啊那相對的好局長我再請問你就是對於租賃公司這一個無牌的高利貸的這個租賃公司那銀行能不能逐筆去檢查啊你有追嗎這個案子你有追嗎\n513337\t535024\t請說明報告委員分成兩個部分就剛剛委員關心的那個部分基本上還是銀行的放貸所以不是租賃公司但如果回到租賃公司的話那個是不是有你是一直在強調就是說他拿著合法的銀行的錢然後去做\n536124\t550149\t超高利的高利貸超過22倍那你有沒有足比去檢查顯然到這個時候我已經問了好幾次了你們也沒有辦法正向的在回答我好 局長你的人夠不夠呢\n551690\t568898\t你的銀行的內控的一個機制裡頭又要灌金融詐騙又要灌這個融資租賃又要灌洗錢防制又要灌貸錢貸後那到底你的錢那個你的人夠不夠你的人到底夠不夠\n570069\t594903\t報告委員謝謝委員關心確實是後來必須要規範或者是要管理的範圍確實擴大不過這個部分的話其實行政院也在關心這件事情所以在緣額增加上面也請我們再考慮增加緣額要增加多少這個我想在這裡跟金管會主委做一個這個探討啦美國年準會它\n595643\t615195\t有2.4萬人他處理3.3億人的人跟事跟物他的貨幣他的貸款可是相對的我們央行裡頭有866個人銀行局才212個人那如果照這個數字來算的話我想這個銀行局也應該要有1600個人\n616656\t625773\t所以銀行局的人太少了嘛那你太少了你還要他去管這麼多的事情那當然是成效一定不好的啊那你怎麼改進呢\n626674\t654936\t這個我們當然謝謝委員的關心這個確實是應該是大部分公務機關面臨到的問題特別是金管會其實蠻嚴重因為社會對金管會有很多肯定也期待希望我們把很多新興的行業納管當然是期待啊因為我們的錢會被騙啊那你的人不夠啊你怎麼去管控他啦你獅子銀行的問題沒有辦法解決的時候你還要再處理你的虛擬資產你有那麼大的一個能量嗎\n656509\t676524\t現在確實我們現在人力上是非常吃緊不過即便在這樣的情況之下我們要繼續被騙沒有沒有我們還是會持續的努力但是我們也希望說未來能夠爭取我跟你講它在未來虛擬貨幣這一個專法那個通過的時候他們會做了很多很多的一個宣傳這是政府認定的喔這是國家認定的喔你們的錢我們這裡賭注沒問題喔\n679757\t683221\t對 這個市場行為的監控我們一定會加強我們就要努力了\n","txt":"有請金管會主委及銀行局莊局長\n主委早安主委我想今天針對的就是我們的虛擬資產這個議題我來跟你做一個討論我想虛擬資產的一個洗錢的一個涉案其實在國內我們現在看得到的就是說在檯面上就是在這個\n9月份的時候就是碧安協助我們處理一個案子那這個是2億那顯然就是說這個是目前我們看得到的最大的一筆數字那虛擬資產成為詐騙集團熱門的一個洗錢的工具其實已經是好幾年了那這好幾年顯然大家都沒有比較好的一個辦法\n那甚至就是說我們鄭麒麒那個副局長在那個九月份的時候他有講到他就是說不是不是在九月份講到他去年發布了一個指導的原則他希望業者在這個基礎上要自立那逐步發展其他的一個比較政策面的\n委外研究報告在今年9月會完成其期末報告\n現在我們就是因為這個是全世界都面臨到這樣的一個挑戰比如說像我們看我們鄰近像比如說香港、新加坡他們是去年才開了納管大家的做法都差不多都是先從洗錢防制開始所以我們覺得說現在我們也是按部就班的來做因為畢竟這是一個在演化中的產業我們也希望說先針對比如說現在一些主流的幣來進行管理一個演化中的一個產業你在明年六月你要把它送到立法院來\n我們希望能夠提草案對是在這裡我想就是跟你探討了就是說我們要給虛擬資產一個合法的地位嗎這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在我們那個有形的一個資產裡頭其實我們在進行黃幣的討論的時候我們已經面臨到了很大的一個困境就是說我們現有的銀行現有的一個資產其實我們在黃幣打炸的時候\n這個我們都已經是很多的一個弊端都呈現出來我們無法可管那相對的數位時代來臨了我們這些年長的長輩反而成為這個數位化的一個弱勢\n這個看起來是說我用一個案例就是說這個是在3月9號他所做的一個報導一個70多歲的老太太他3月初才跟保險公司開了一個網路的一個服務結果他7張保單在一個夜內都被解約領走了有的被拿去值戒了\n那有的就是做其他的用途那合計的金額上千萬結果後來這個老太太發現不對了她跑到保險公司去她去跟她這個要回保單的恢復原狀當然她是遭到詐騙集團的一個冒名的一個申辦可是保險公司拒絕她了\n這個我們有法可管嗎?無法可管所以我們很遺憾發生這個案子不過就是這個假設是詐騙集團我們現在一定會看看保險公司有沒有責任那再來就是說如果它是一個詐騙人對主委我現在講的這個案例就是說本席的選區其實很多的老人那如果這一個新寧貨幣新寧貨幣的一個產業讓它再有一個合法的地位的時候那不是被騙得更慘嗎?\n現在有形的一個金融產業都已經是環不勝環了那現在怎麼辦呢那我們只看到說金管會定期會在公告詐騙手法放在你的官網上讓民眾來參閱那警政署也會在社區做很多環詐的一個宣傳\n你看喔,我們已經花了那麼多的一個力氣北溪這幾天回到地方去跑那個端午節的一個活動我常常就看到了警政署就是在每一個我們的派出所所長他們都到現場去做詐騙的一個宣傳所以我們都告訴那一些長輩告訴那些現有社區的這一些人出來了我們就告訴他說\n你們要怎麼樣怎麼樣只要有跟錢的相關的你們就是要謹慎好那甚至就是在銀行裡頭的零貴都被騙了那更何況是數位呢那前警政署長他曾經講在2023年他的一個記者會上他提到了光是2022年他的報案量就有3萬多件可是\n僅有攔截8000多件你看這個不符合比例啊不符合比例啊所以我還是再一次請問主委我們要給虛擬貨幣這一個專法給它一個合法的地位嗎你個人的看法是怎麼樣\n謝謝委員我充分理解委員剛剛提的顧慮我們現在就是沒有專法的情況之下它有這麼多的狀況那當然比如說我們當我們給予一個執照我們主管機關就要非常非常的謹慎因為也代表我們的承擔我們必須要把這些把它導正化所以這是當然是有個兩難但是我覺得我們整體評估而言政府責無旁貸\n要擔起這些管理的責任但是對於不法的我們要嚴重於打擊那你有辦法管嗎你的人力有辦法管嗎你看銀行人員不正當的挪用這個款項的案件都頻傳了那你主詐的同時你怎麼避免內部人的不法行為那你可以抓他這個你還可以抓他這個你還管得到可是在吸引貨幣合法之後貨幣商有辦法跟營養合法合規嗎\n這個就是我們未來努力的目標剛剛跟委員跟大家報告就是說我們希望法制逐漸完備比如說我們先採洗錢防制法登記制登記制某種程度你要滿足我們現在全國一致的洗房標準我們要合法合規合法合規我來追幾個案子那個銀行局局長在這一個就是天空塔在\n天空塔的弊案持續在發酵的時候那我在這裡請教你我們有繼續追蹤就是說這一個天空塔這一個弊案就是說蔡永毅他在放貸的過程裡頭他有沒有介入他有沒有在核貸的時候有沒有特別的寬鬆有沒有就是說去脅迫我們的同仁來配合呢\n你們有查到這樣子嗎報告委員這個案子的話其實就是報導已經開始揭露的時候其實我沒有請因為兆豐銀行是主辦行所以其實我沒有請兆豐銀行提出報告\n那依照兆豐銀行的報告來看的話他目前一切都還是在正常的狀況之下那至於他們內部放貸的過程當中他目前也認為說查核的結果是沒有問題是沒有好 這個局長你回答我是沒有你看可能是他認為你們查不出來他還可以再掛疑一個就是說前兆豐總經理\n蔡永毅他還可以掛一個資深合夥人啊掛一個就是這個蔡永毅他在掏空的嫌疑人邱冠興就是他的盛景公司他還可以掛一個資深的合理人顯然就是他認為你們抓不到嘛\n那抓不到為什麼會有這麼大的一個弊案啊那相對的好局長我再請問你就是對於租賃公司這一個無牌的高利貸的這個租賃公司那銀行能不能逐筆去檢查啊你有追嗎這個案子你有追嗎\n請說明報告委員分成兩個部分就剛剛委員關心的那個部分基本上還是銀行的放貸所以不是租賃公司但如果回到租賃公司的話那個是不是有你是一直在強調就是說他拿著合法的銀行的錢然後去做\n超高利的高利貸超過22倍那你有沒有足比去檢查顯然到這個時候我已經問了好幾次了你們也沒有辦法正向的在回答我好 局長你的人夠不夠呢\n你的銀行的內控的一個機制裡頭又要灌金融詐騙又要灌這個融資租賃又要灌洗錢防制又要灌貸錢貸後那到底你的錢那個你的人夠不夠你的人到底夠不夠\n報告委員謝謝委員關心確實是後來必須要規範或者是要管理的範圍確實擴大不過這個部分的話其實行政院也在關心這件事情所以在緣額增加上面也請我們再考慮增加緣額要增加多少這個我想在這裡跟金管會主委做一個這個探討啦美國年準會它\n有2.4萬人他處理3.3億人的人跟事跟物他的貨幣他的貸款可是相對的我們央行裡頭有866個人銀行局才212個人那如果照這個數字來算的話我想這個銀行局也應該要有1600個人\n所以銀行局的人太少了嘛那你太少了你還要他去管這麼多的事情那當然是成效一定不好的啊那你怎麼改進呢\n這個我們當然謝謝委員的關心這個確實是應該是大部分公務機關面臨到的問題特別是金管會其實蠻嚴重因為社會對金管會有很多肯定也期待希望我們把很多新興的行業納管當然是期待啊因為我們的錢會被騙啊那你的人不夠啊你怎麼去管控他啦你獅子銀行的問題沒有辦法解決的時候你還要再處理你的虛擬資產你有那麼大的一個能量嗎\n現在確實我們現在人力上是非常吃緊不過即便在這樣的情況之下我們要繼續被騙沒有沒有我們還是會持續的努力但是我們也希望說未來能夠爭取我跟你講它在未來虛擬貨幣這一個專法那個通過的時候他們會做了很多很多的一個宣傳這是政府認定的喔這是國家認定的喔你們的錢我們這裡賭注沒問題喔\n對 這個市場行為的監控我們一定會加強我們就要努力了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.323 --> 00:08.586\n有請金管會主委及銀行局莊局長\n\n00:15.578 --> 00:34.847\n主委早安主委我想今天針對的就是我們的虛擬資產這個議題我來跟你做一個討論我想虛擬資產的一個洗錢的一個涉案其實在國內我們現在看得到的就是說在檯面上就是在這個\n\n00:37.288 --> 00:58.928\n9月份的時候就是碧安協助我們處理一個案子那這個是2億那顯然就是說這個是目前我們看得到的最大的一筆數字那虛擬資產成為詐騙集團熱門的一個洗錢的工具其實已經是好幾年了那這好幾年顯然大家都沒有比較好的一個辦法\n\n01:00.129 --> 01:20.094\n那甚至就是說我們鄭麒麒那個副局長在那個九月份的時候他有講到他就是說不是不是在九月份講到他去年發布了一個指導的原則他希望業者在這個基礎上要自立那逐步發展其他的一個比較政策面的\n\n01:21.955 --> 01:26.359\n委外研究報告在今年9月會完成其期末報告\n\n01:42.218 --> 02:10.299\n現在我們就是因為這個是全世界都面臨到這樣的一個挑戰比如說像我們看我們鄰近像比如說香港、新加坡他們是去年才開了納管大家的做法都差不多都是先從洗錢防制開始所以我們覺得說現在我們也是按部就班的來做因為畢竟這是一個在演化中的產業我們也希望說先針對比如說現在一些主流的幣來進行管理一個演化中的一個產業你在明年六月你要把它送到立法院來\n\n02:11.460 --> 02:38.771\n我們希望能夠提草案對是在這裡我想就是跟你探討了就是說我們要給虛擬資產一個合法的地位嗎這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在我們那個有形的一個資產裡頭其實我們在進行黃幣的討論的時候我們已經面臨到了很大的一個困境就是說我們現有的銀行現有的一個資產其實我們在黃幣打炸的時候\n\n02:40.172 --> 02:51.849\n這個我們都已經是很多的一個弊端都呈現出來我們無法可管那相對的數位時代來臨了我們這些年長的長輩反而成為這個數位化的一個弱勢\n\n02:55.073 --> 03:13.981\n這個看起來是說我用一個案例就是說這個是在3月9號他所做的一個報導一個70多歲的老太太他3月初才跟保險公司開了一個網路的一個服務結果他7張保單在一個夜內都被解約領走了有的被拿去值戒了\n\n03:14.912 --> 03:34.132\n那有的就是做其他的用途那合計的金額上千萬結果後來這個老太太發現不對了她跑到保險公司去她去跟她這個要回保單的恢復原狀當然她是遭到詐騙集團的一個冒名的一個申辦可是保險公司拒絕她了\n\n03:35.617 --> 04:04.457\n這個我們有法可管嗎?無法可管所以我們很遺憾發生這個案子不過就是這個假設是詐騙集團我們現在一定會看看保險公司有沒有責任那再來就是說如果它是一個詐騙人對主委我現在講的這個案例就是說本席的選區其實很多的老人那如果這一個新寧貨幣新寧貨幣的一個產業讓它再有一個合法的地位的時候那不是被騙得更慘嗎?\n\n04:06.078 --> 04:23.874\n現在有形的一個金融產業都已經是環不勝環了那現在怎麼辦呢那我們只看到說金管會定期會在公告詐騙手法放在你的官網上讓民眾來參閱那警政署也會在社區做很多環詐的一個宣傳\n\n04:24.915 --> 04:47.912\n你看喔,我們已經花了那麼多的一個力氣北溪這幾天回到地方去跑那個端午節的一個活動我常常就看到了警政署就是在每一個我們的派出所所長他們都到現場去做詐騙的一個宣傳所以我們都告訴那一些長輩告訴那些現有社區的這一些人出來了我們就告訴他說\n\n04:49.173 --> 05:11.743\n你們要怎麼樣怎麼樣只要有跟錢的相關的你們就是要謹慎好那甚至就是在銀行裡頭的零貴都被騙了那更何況是數位呢那前警政署長他曾經講在2023年他的一個記者會上他提到了光是2022年他的報案量就有3萬多件可是\n\n05:12.883 --> 05:29.669\n僅有攔截8000多件你看這個不符合比例啊不符合比例啊所以我還是再一次請問主委我們要給虛擬貨幣這一個專法給它一個合法的地位嗎你個人的看法是怎麼樣\n\n05:32.612 --> 05:57.914\n謝謝委員我充分理解委員剛剛提的顧慮我們現在就是沒有專法的情況之下它有這麼多的狀況那當然比如說我們當我們給予一個執照我們主管機關就要非常非常的謹慎因為也代表我們的承擔我們必須要把這些把它導正化所以這是當然是有個兩難但是我覺得我們整體評估而言政府責無旁貸\n\n05:59.035 --> 06:23.321\n要擔起這些管理的責任但是對於不法的我們要嚴重於打擊那你有辦法管嗎你的人力有辦法管嗎你看銀行人員不正當的挪用這個款項的案件都頻傳了那你主詐的同時你怎麼避免內部人的不法行為那你可以抓他這個你還可以抓他這個你還管得到可是在吸引貨幣合法之後貨幣商有辦法跟營養合法合規嗎\n\n06:26.182 --> 06:49.253\n這個就是我們未來努力的目標剛剛跟委員跟大家報告就是說我們希望法制逐漸完備比如說我們先採洗錢防制法登記制登記制某種程度你要滿足我們現在全國一致的洗房標準我們要合法合規合法合規我來追幾個案子那個銀行局局長在這一個就是天空塔在\n\n06:50.413 --> 07:13.345\n天空塔的弊案持續在發酵的時候那我在這裡請教你我們有繼續追蹤就是說這一個天空塔這一個弊案就是說蔡永毅他在放貸的過程裡頭他有沒有介入他有沒有在核貸的時候有沒有特別的寬鬆有沒有就是說去脅迫我們的同仁來配合呢\n\n07:14.534 --> 07:24.709\n你們有查到這樣子嗎報告委員這個案子的話其實就是報導已經開始揭露的時候其實我沒有請因為兆豐銀行是主辦行所以其實我沒有請兆豐銀行提出報告\n\n07:30.578 --> 07:57.306\n那依照兆豐銀行的報告來看的話他目前一切都還是在正常的狀況之下那至於他們內部放貸的過程當中他目前也認為說查核的結果是沒有問題是沒有好這個局長你回答我是沒有你看可能是他認為你們查不出來他還可以再掛疑一個就是說前兆豐總經理\n\n07:58.886 --> 08:14.033\n蔡永毅他還可以掛一個資深合夥人啊掛一個就是這個蔡永毅他在掏空的嫌疑人邱冠興就是他的盛景公司他還可以掛一個資深的合理人顯然就是他認為你們抓不到嘛\n\n08:14.733 --> 08:31.474\n那抓不到為什麼會有這麼大的一個弊案啊那相對的好局長我再請問你就是對於租賃公司這一個無牌的高利貸的這個租賃公司那銀行能不能逐筆去檢查啊你有追嗎這個案子你有追嗎\n\n08:33.337 --> 08:55.024\n請說明報告委員分成兩個部分就剛剛委員關心的那個部分基本上還是銀行的放貸所以不是租賃公司但如果回到租賃公司的話那個是不是有你是一直在強調就是說他拿著合法的銀行的錢然後去做\n\n08:56.124 --> 09:10.149\n超高利的高利貸超過22倍那你有沒有足比去檢查顯然到這個時候我已經問了好幾次了你們也沒有辦法正向的在回答我好局長你的人夠不夠呢\n\n09:11.690 --> 09:28.898\n你的銀行的內控的一個機制裡頭又要灌金融詐騙又要灌這個融資租賃又要灌洗錢防制又要灌貸錢貸後那到底你的錢那個你的人夠不夠你的人到底夠不夠\n\n09:30.069 --> 09:54.903\n報告委員謝謝委員關心確實是後來必須要規範或者是要管理的範圍確實擴大不過這個部分的話其實行政院也在關心這件事情所以在緣額增加上面也請我們再考慮增加緣額要增加多少這個我想在這裡跟金管會主委做一個這個探討啦美國年準會它\n\n09:55.643 --> 10:15.195\n有2.4萬人他處理3.3億人的人跟事跟物他的貨幣他的貸款可是相對的我們央行裡頭有866個人銀行局才212個人那如果照這個數字來算的話我想這個銀行局也應該要有1600個人\n\n10:16.656 --> 10:25.773\n所以銀行局的人太少了嘛那你太少了你還要他去管這麼多的事情那當然是成效一定不好的啊那你怎麼改進呢\n\n10:26.674 --> 10:54.936\n這個我們當然謝謝委員的關心這個確實是應該是大部分公務機關面臨到的問題特別是金管會其實蠻嚴重因為社會對金管會有很多肯定也期待希望我們把很多新興的行業納管當然是期待啊因為我們的錢會被騙啊那你的人不夠啊你怎麼去管控他啦你獅子銀行的問題沒有辦法解決的時候你還要再處理你的虛擬資產你有那麼大的一個能量嗎\n\n10:56.509 --> 11:16.524\n現在確實我們現在人力上是非常吃緊不過即便在這樣的情況之下我們要繼續被騙沒有沒有我們還是會持續的努力但是我們也希望說未來能夠爭取我跟你講它在未來虛擬貨幣這一個專法那個通過的時候他們會做了很多很多的一個宣傳這是政府認定的喔這是國家認定的喔你們的錢我們這裡賭注沒問題喔\n\n11:19.757 --> 11:23.221\n對這個市場行為的監控我們一定會加強我們就要努力了\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.323,"end":8.586,"text":"有請金管會主委及銀行局莊局長"},{"start":15.578,"end":34.847,"text":"主委早安主委我想今天針對的就是我們的虛擬資產這個議題我來跟你做一個討論我想虛擬資產的一個洗錢的一個涉案其實在國內我們現在看得到的就是說在檯面上就是在這個"},{"start":37.288,"end":58.928,"text":"9月份的時候就是碧安協助我們處理一個案子那這個是2億那顯然就是說這個是目前我們看得到的最大的一筆數字那虛擬資產成為詐騙集團熱門的一個洗錢的工具其實已經是好幾年了那這好幾年顯然大家都沒有比較好的一個辦法"},{"start":60.129,"end":80.094,"text":"那甚至就是說我們鄭麒麒那個副局長在那個九月份的時候他有講到他就是說不是不是在九月份講到他去年發布了一個指導的原則他希望業者在這個基礎上要自立那逐步發展其他的一個比較政策面的"},{"start":81.955,"end":86.359,"text":"委外研究報告在今年9月會完成其期末報告"},{"start":102.218,"end":130.299,"text":"現在我們就是因為這個是全世界都面臨到這樣的一個挑戰比如說像我們看我們鄰近像比如說香港、新加坡他們是去年才開了納管大家的做法都差不多都是先從洗錢防制開始所以我們覺得說現在我們也是按部就班的來做因為畢竟這是一個在演化中的產業我們也希望說先針對比如說現在一些主流的幣來進行管理一個演化中的一個產業你在明年六月你要把它送到立法院來"},{"start":131.46,"end":158.771,"text":"我們希望能夠提草案對是在這裡我想就是跟你探討了就是說我們要給虛擬資產一個合法的地位嗎這個是本席今天要跟你探討的在我們那個有形的一個資產裡頭其實我們在進行黃幣的討論的時候我們已經面臨到了很大的一個困境就是說我們現有的銀行現有的一個資產其實我們在黃幣打炸的時候"},{"start":160.172,"end":171.849,"text":"這個我們都已經是很多的一個弊端都呈現出來我們無法可管那相對的數位時代來臨了我們這些年長的長輩反而成為這個數位化的一個弱勢"},{"start":175.073,"end":193.981,"text":"這個看起來是說我用一個案例就是說這個是在3月9號他所做的一個報導一個70多歲的老太太他3月初才跟保險公司開了一個網路的一個服務結果他7張保單在一個夜內都被解約領走了有的被拿去值戒了"},{"start":194.912,"end":214.132,"text":"那有的就是做其他的用途那合計的金額上千萬結果後來這個老太太發現不對了她跑到保險公司去她去跟她這個要回保單的恢復原狀當然她是遭到詐騙集團的一個冒名的一個申辦可是保險公司拒絕她了"},{"start":215.617,"end":244.457,"text":"這個我們有法可管嗎?無法可管所以我們很遺憾發生這個案子不過就是這個假設是詐騙集團我們現在一定會看看保險公司有沒有責任那再來就是說如果它是一個詐騙人對主委我現在講的這個案例就是說本席的選區其實很多的老人那如果這一個新寧貨幣新寧貨幣的一個產業讓它再有一個合法的地位的時候那不是被騙得更慘嗎?"},{"start":246.078,"end":263.874,"text":"現在有形的一個金融產業都已經是環不勝環了那現在怎麼辦呢那我們只看到說金管會定期會在公告詐騙手法放在你的官網上讓民眾來參閱那警政署也會在社區做很多環詐的一個宣傳"},{"start":264.915,"end":287.912,"text":"你看喔,我們已經花了那麼多的一個力氣北溪這幾天回到地方去跑那個端午節的一個活動我常常就看到了警政署就是在每一個我們的派出所所長他們都到現場去做詐騙的一個宣傳所以我們都告訴那一些長輩告訴那些現有社區的這一些人出來了我們就告訴他說"},{"start":289.173,"end":311.743,"text":"你們要怎麼樣怎麼樣只要有跟錢的相關的你們就是要謹慎好那甚至就是在銀行裡頭的零貴都被騙了那更何況是數位呢那前警政署長他曾經講在2023年他的一個記者會上他提到了光是2022年他的報案量就有3萬多件可是"},{"start":312.883,"end":329.669,"text":"僅有攔截8000多件你看這個不符合比例啊不符合比例啊所以我還是再一次請問主委我們要給虛擬貨幣這一個專法給它一個合法的地位嗎你個人的看法是怎麼樣"},{"start":332.612,"end":357.914,"text":"謝謝委員我充分理解委員剛剛提的顧慮我們現在就是沒有專法的情況之下它有這麼多的狀況那當然比如說我們當我們給予一個執照我們主管機關就要非常非常的謹慎因為也代表我們的承擔我們必須要把這些把它導正化所以這是當然是有個兩難但是我覺得我們整體評估而言政府責無旁貸"},{"start":359.035,"end":383.321,"text":"要擔起這些管理的責任但是對於不法的我們要嚴重於打擊那你有辦法管嗎你的人力有辦法管嗎你看銀行人員不正當的挪用這個款項的案件都頻傳了那你主詐的同時你怎麼避免內部人的不法行為那你可以抓他這個你還可以抓他這個你還管得到可是在吸引貨幣合法之後貨幣商有辦法跟營養合法合規嗎"},{"start":386.182,"end":409.253,"text":"這個就是我們未來努力的目標剛剛跟委員跟大家報告就是說我們希望法制逐漸完備比如說我們先採洗錢防制法登記制登記制某種程度你要滿足我們現在全國一致的洗房標準我們要合法合規合法合規我來追幾個案子那個銀行局局長在這一個就是天空塔在"},{"start":410.413,"end":433.345,"text":"天空塔的弊案持續在發酵的時候那我在這裡請教你我們有繼續追蹤就是說這一個天空塔這一個弊案就是說蔡永毅他在放貸的過程裡頭他有沒有介入他有沒有在核貸的時候有沒有特別的寬鬆有沒有就是說去脅迫我們的同仁來配合呢"},{"start":434.534,"end":444.709,"text":"你們有查到這樣子嗎報告委員這個案子的話其實就是報導已經開始揭露的時候其實我沒有請因為兆豐銀行是主辦行所以其實我沒有請兆豐銀行提出報告"},{"start":450.578,"end":477.306,"text":"那依照兆豐銀行的報告來看的話他目前一切都還是在正常的狀況之下那至於他們內部放貸的過程當中他目前也認為說查核的結果是沒有問題是沒有好 這個局長你回答我是沒有你看可能是他認為你們查不出來他還可以再掛疑一個就是說前兆豐總經理"},{"start":478.886,"end":494.033,"text":"蔡永毅他還可以掛一個資深合夥人啊掛一個就是這個蔡永毅他在掏空的嫌疑人邱冠興就是他的盛景公司他還可以掛一個資深的合理人顯然就是他認為你們抓不到嘛"},{"start":494.733,"end":511.474,"text":"那抓不到為什麼會有這麼大的一個弊案啊那相對的好局長我再請問你就是對於租賃公司這一個無牌的高利貸的這個租賃公司那銀行能不能逐筆去檢查啊你有追嗎這個案子你有追嗎"},{"start":513.337,"end":535.024,"text":"請說明報告委員分成兩個部分就剛剛委員關心的那個部分基本上還是銀行的放貸所以不是租賃公司但如果回到租賃公司的話那個是不是有你是一直在強調就是說他拿著合法的銀行的錢然後去做"},{"start":536.124,"end":550.149,"text":"超高利的高利貸超過22倍那你有沒有足比去檢查顯然到這個時候我已經問了好幾次了你們也沒有辦法正向的在回答我好 局長你的人夠不夠呢"},{"start":551.69,"end":568.898,"text":"你的銀行的內控的一個機制裡頭又要灌金融詐騙又要灌這個融資租賃又要灌洗錢防制又要灌貸錢貸後那到底你的錢那個你的人夠不夠你的人到底夠不夠"},{"start":570.069,"end":594.903,"text":"報告委員謝謝委員關心確實是後來必須要規範或者是要管理的範圍確實擴大不過這個部分的話其實行政院也在關心這件事情所以在緣額增加上面也請我們再考慮增加緣額要增加多少這個我想在這裡跟金管會主委做一個這個探討啦美國年準會它"},{"start":595.643,"end":615.195,"text":"有2.4萬人他處理3.3億人的人跟事跟物他的貨幣他的貸款可是相對的我們央行裡頭有866個人銀行局才212個人那如果照這個數字來算的話我想這個銀行局也應該要有1600個人"},{"start":616.656,"end":625.773,"text":"所以銀行局的人太少了嘛那你太少了你還要他去管這麼多的事情那當然是成效一定不好的啊那你怎麼改進呢"},{"start":626.674,"end":654.936,"text":"這個我們當然謝謝委員的關心這個確實是應該是大部分公務機關面臨到的問題特別是金管會其實蠻嚴重因為社會對金管會有很多肯定也期待希望我們把很多新興的行業納管當然是期待啊因為我們的錢會被騙啊那你的人不夠啊你怎麼去管控他啦你獅子銀行的問題沒有辦法解決的時候你還要再處理你的虛擬資產你有那麼大的一個能量嗎"},{"start":656.509,"end":676.524,"text":"現在確實我們現在人力上是非常吃緊不過即便在這樣的情況之下我們要繼續被騙沒有沒有我們還是會持續的努力但是我們也希望說未來能夠爭取我跟你講它在未來虛擬貨幣這一個專法那個通過的時候他們會做了很多很多的一個宣傳這是政府認定的喔這是國家認定的喔你們的錢我們這裡賭注沒問題喔"},{"start":679.757,"end":683.221,"text":"對 這個市場行為的監控我們一定會加強我們就要努力了"}]}}}}