{"id":153820,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153820","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81986a57c8199d1268b25a148732a468ab6a04e565a7cce14ef39431ddb69bbbff55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:08:11 - 10:22:44","影片長度":"00:14:33","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:08:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:22:44+08:00","duration":873,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":310,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時8分）謝謝主席，有請鄭部長。"],["主席：鄭部長。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長早安。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：關於霸凌的事情，我們只抓最近這個禮拜的新聞，光是過去這一個禮拜就至少有3起，有關樣態，我想前面已經有很多委員說了，我簡單地說，有師生聯手霸凌學生、師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌，很多人很容易在網路上、社群平臺上，或者在很多學生次文化團體的社群平臺上看到這些訊息，不僅會有模仿效應，其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼，我要談的是這個困境。當然，我非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布校園霸凌防制準則，光是在這件事情上，我們知道教育部跟不同的委員，還有跟不同的民間團體、專家學者真的開了無數次的會，我相信在這個會議中最辛苦的學特司司長一定非常清楚。","可是我們在現場看到另外一個困境，在校園霸凌防制準則裡面提到，相關的委員會必須要過半數委員從生對生的人才庫外聘，或者是高中以下解聘辦法裡面談到的調查委員也要外聘，當時非常多委員都有強調這件事情，希望保持校內不要產生師師相護，或者是沒有相關的專家學者進入調查當中。可是執行之後發生一個很大的困境，我必須要先自己承認，其實我也不知道會發生這個困境，非常感謝在現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們，他們遇到的困境是費用的問題，每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付。請教學特司司長，我講的這部分對不對？對。當我們聽到這個消息之後，我們最大的疑問是錢從哪裡來？很多的校長直接告訴我們，學校有一部分的費用支付在這裡，真的不夠就拜託家長會，用家長募款的方法來支應這些費用，若再不夠呢？通常我們發現愈小的學校或是都會型的學校愈多相關的案件，所以錢很不夠，這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了。我要自己再度承認，確實我們當時完全沒想到這個事情，我很好奇目前學特司或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分？","我們來試算一下給部長看，以性平案調查為例，第一次召開會議的外聘委員出席費，1個人至少2,500元，受理後進行調查，1個人再2,500元，這都只是1個人喔！可是我剛剛說要2到3個或是過半數以上，相關調查報告是每1,000個字1,080元，到了結案會議，1個人又是2,500元，假設事件成立，我們推論霸凌事件產生這麼多費用，也就是每個案子至少都是5,000元以上，甚至是破萬，有一些案件因為家長的堅持，必須不斷、不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這件事情，因此我這裡寫到產生的費用都還算稍微保留一些些，但是我們真的很擔心，目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校？光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛，更不要講所有的調查程序跟中間所有老師、家長，還有行政人員、學生在這些事件當中共同付出的心力，所以可不可以請部長或是司長快速回應我們？關於這個費用的部分，目前有沒有什麼規劃，或者有沒有聽到縣市政府已經告訴你們所遇到的困境？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指正，在校外委員、調查委員的外聘費用部分，除了地方政府的協助，我們現在大概每一案是給1萬到1萬5,000元，也就是說……"],["陳委員培瑜：每一個案子嗎？每一個呈的案子嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，師對生的校園霸凌部分是給1萬5,000元，因為涉及到老師，生對生我們是給1萬，除了地方政府的經費支持以外，為了協助地方的中小學，教育部在這部分也提供經費的補助。"],["陳委員培瑜：你們目前聽到縣市政府或是地方學校給你們的回饋是費用都沒問題，可是跟我們聽到的，感覺起來有很大的落差。"],["鄭部長英耀：如同委員所提的，這個辦法我們剛實施，我們從5月發現這個問題，所以5月份才開始，等於上個月我們才開始提供這樣的經費補助。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，因為接下來就要放暑假了，是不是可以規劃一個時程表，到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局相關的意見跟費用？一旦這些委員會不斷開啟之後，如果所有老師們要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上，影響到教學狀況又會是如何？因為已經有很多文章跟投書直接告訴教育部、地方教育局，請把老師還給我們做教學，而不是做調查。之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候，我們就一直拜託教育部必須把教育的理念放進去，所以我也要echo剛剛召委提到的學輔法部分，為什麼要談到學輔法？其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨提出一個行動方案，關於學生的部分非常明確寫出「推動學生輔導法修法」，我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆，我相信已經有很多人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中有很大的困境。","當然我非常感謝教育部，在上一個會期已經通過大學心輔人力從1比1,200到1比900，不修法而直接給予費用，但是我真的要拜託部長，小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境，所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出，去看心理諮商的部分可不可以往下到國中？因為之前只有18歲到35歲。我只是要告訴部長，也告訴所有的行政長官，你們必須要知道很多孩子已經有意識，甚且他們的家長不見得支持，要如何把孩子的聲音提出來？所以我想再次拜託部長，請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，基本上我們現在努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到大院。"],["陳委員培瑜：為什麼召委突然……好，8月底之前送進立法院。好，我們先暫時這樣……"],["鄭部長英耀：暫訂啦！我想……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，暫訂啦！我們期待可以更早，好不好？因為孩子們在學校的狀況真的非常辛苦，而且孩子們對應到的其實是老師們教學上的痛苦，而老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能，以及不知道該怎麼辦，非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙，我們就先記得在8月底以前。","但是我剛剛說的那個費用，蒐集相關資訊然後做進一步的規劃報告，有機會在3個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎？關於我剛才說的委員會調查費用，目前各縣市政府執行的狀況。"],["鄭部長英耀：在9月底之前。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，9月底之前，謝謝部長。","下一個部分是「零容忍」，教育部一直談的「零容忍」是什麼呢？霸凌零容忍、毒品零容忍、性騷零容忍、兒虐零容忍，部長，您認同嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這我認同。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，部長您上任不久，我想要快速跟你分享一下，我們辦公室在過去這一年多以來，一直關注所有學校現場，除了一般的教學現場之外，學校還有另外一個樣貌，就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態，有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長，我們接下來要一起努力。第一個，電競大賞的頒獎人是有吸毒的，當時體育署說，並沒有同意擔任指導單位，堅決反毒。當時我就拜託體育署，是不是可以幫我們建立一個不受歡迎名單？所謂不受歡迎名單，就是假設我陳培瑜曾經做過類似的事情，那我就不應該被邀請去當任何的評審委員或是主持人，甚至是頒獎人，因為那會給底下所有觀眾帶來非常錯誤的示範，所以我陳培瑜如果做過類似的事情，我就應該被體育署列在不受歡迎名單當中；可是體育署當時給我們的回復卻說，沒有相關法源、沒有辦法做。部長，你覺得這樣適合嗎？我剛剛說的這些霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的大人們，一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合，他們當主持人也好、當評審也好、當教練也好、當各式各樣有權力、有資源的人也好，部長，你覺得這樣適合嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想，儘管法令上沒有明文規範，但是就教育的觀點，我們其實對一些可能存有爭議的人，我想他仍不宜在許多公開場合及頒獎典禮裡面出現。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以部長你應該是認同我的說法……"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：其實我相信署長也認同，署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力，可是我必須要說，體育現場有很多過去遺留下來的，在父權體制底下，大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視，或者根本不覺得這是重要的事情，就像我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情，好像體育界的人對這些事情覺得理所當然，可是我們知道，絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣。","我再舉一個例子，6月4號在一個網路社群──靠北排球2.0裡面，他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個……我都不想稱他為專業人士，結果沒有想到在這個月初，臺中辦理的連莊杯國際排球賽─體育署補助上百萬的比賽，這個人竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人，又再一次發生這樣的狀況，因為沒有那個名單。在「零容忍」的每一個現場，不是教育部或是體育署第一時間就可以到達現場指導跟指揮，所以我們會一再一再的在網路上看到這些事情不斷發生。我們就來看網民怎麼評論這件事情，他們說：連莊杯找什麼噁男當主持人，有夠不舒服；這咖下去好嗎？找正派一點的來主持很難嗎？我覺得對部長和署長來說一定不難，可是為什麼我們屢屢在現場看到這樣的狀況？","再給部長看下一段影片，我個人非常震撼的這個影片，請部長先看一下。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，你需要再看一次嗎？我們再看一次。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，您來自教育基層，您也當過大學校長，您覺得這一位教練在做什麼事情？它是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊。部長，我幫你說好了啦，你可能不好說，那還是我直接問，你覺得他算不算是體罰球員？是不是師對生的霸凌現場？"],["鄭部長英耀：他確實有不當的一個指導行為。"],["陳委員培瑜：這樣的現場屢屢發生，可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情。這個影片還有觀眾在看臺上，這個影片已經在我們辦公室放很久，但是一直都沒有機會跟部長討論，從我剛剛所有的案例到接下來的案例，我要再一次強調，「零容忍」不要再只是口號，體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部，一旦到部的規格，如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的、專制權威的體育文化，我們會遇到很大的困境，若升格之後，這些事情該怎麼辦，難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎？絕對不是這樣，我相信部長跟署長一定也認同。","監察院在108年對於青溪國中的一個教練提出糾正案，他的名字叫陳宗世，結果這個教練竟然在109年華麗轉身到大仁國中繼續當教練。為了要確保我質詢內容是正確的，我剛剛還去查，這個人到現在為止還繼續在大仁國中的現場擔任教練，部長，你覺得適合嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：抱歉。"],["陳委員培瑜：你覺得適合嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：當然不適合。"],["陳委員培瑜：不適合嘛！所以「零容忍」對不對？部長，我們一起努力好不好？","部長，我再跟你講最後一件事情，在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外……謝謝主席，不好意思，我的問題快結束了。升格之路這件事情，我剛剛說要從組織文化改善，我們之前跟體育署問了，關於體育署發生中華奧會女性持刀自殘這件事情，我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境，結果體育署跟我們回復說：有，有跟勞動部一起去了。可是我們就問，相關的會議資料呢？結果後來才發現，根本就沒有找勞動部一起去，也就是根本沒有發生這件事情，可是體育署給我們的回復卻是這樣。我要說，我覺得體育署不管在分工分組上，或者內部人員對於相關事情的意識，部長跟署長絕對不是每一件事情都可以控制得到的，一定有很多同仁的心態必須要積極改變，做出對於時代的應對。","最後我想要拜託部長，這件事情……怎麼這麼多案例？好，我直接來到結論好了，在組改的議題之前，我要拜託部長，對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情，以及體育的改革，國人期待真的非常非常高，每次只要我們辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題，就會有很多人再給我們更多的案例，其實我自己都做快要無力了，所以這部分真的要拜託部長跟署長。","接下來，體育行政是不是應該要有進步思維？關於兒少、人權、性平，這也是賴清德總統、民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值，但我相信他們絕對不該只是口號，這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中。是不是可以拜託部長跟署長？關於相關的議題，我們之後一起努力。這件事情我就沒有辦法押時間，因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情，但是我真的要拜託部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我們會努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝司長，謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝。","接下來請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-16","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","張雅琳","黃建賓","林德福","林倩綺","陳俊宇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","范雲","黃秀芳","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌\n案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153820","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153820","tool":"pyannote","id":"153820-pyannote"},"job_id":"2esgCNtiYo13RVf1","queued_at":"2024-06-12 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\"start\": 271.095, \"end\": 271.115, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 272.575, \"end\": 279.782, \"text\": \"所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 272.575, \"end\": 272.655, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 272.655, \"end\": 272.775, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 272.775, \"end\": 272.996, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 272.996, \"end\": 273.156, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 273.156, \"end\": 273.616, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 273.616, \"end\": 273.836, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 273.836, \"end\": 274.117, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 274.117, \"end\": 274.237, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 274.237, \"end\": 274.437, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"府\", 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{\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 277.42, \"end\": 277.54, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 277.54, \"end\": 277.56, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 277.56, \"end\": 277.58, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 277.58, \"end\": 277.6, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 277.6, \"end\": 277.62, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 277.62, \"end\": 277.84, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 277.84, \"end\": 277.9, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 277.9, \"end\": 277.92, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 277.92, \"end\": 277.94, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 277.94, \"end\": 278.06, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 278.06, \"end\": 278.12, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 278.12, \"end\": 278.14, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 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\"我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 299.219, \"end\": 299.459, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 299.459, \"end\": 299.719, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 299.719, \"end\": 299.879, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 299.879, \"end\": 300.039, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 300.039, \"end\": 300.16, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 300.16, \"end\": 300.34, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 300.34, \"end\": 300.36, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 300.36, \"end\": 300.6, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 300.6, \"end\": 300.8, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"暑\", \"start\": 300.8, \"end\": 301.0, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 301.0, \"end\": 301.24, 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327.811, \"end\": 327.931, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 327.931, \"end\": 328.091, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 328.091, \"end\": 328.271, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 328.271, \"end\": 328.291, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 328.971, \"end\": 347.821, \"text\": \"其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 328.971, \"end\": 329.191, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 329.191, \"end\": 329.351, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 329.351, \"end\": 329.551, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 329.551, \"end\": 330.052, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"霸\", \"start\": 330.052, \"end\": 330.172, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"凌\", \"start\": 330.172, \"end\": 330.352, \"score\": 0.538}, {\"word\": \"防\", 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{\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 343.639, \"end\": 343.759, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 343.759, \"end\": 343.939, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 343.939, \"end\": 344.039, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 344.039, \"end\": 344.159, \"score\": 0.603}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 344.159, \"end\": 344.299, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 344.299, \"end\": 344.459, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 344.459, \"end\": 344.739, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 344.739, \"end\": 344.859, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 344.859, \"end\": 344.999, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 344.999, \"end\": 345.059, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 345.059, \"end\": 345.88, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"寫\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 345.88, \"end\": 346.36, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 346.36, \"end\": 346.68, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 869.108, \"end\": 869.128, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 869.128, \"end\": 869.148, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,596 --> 00:00:10,677\n好謝謝主席那有請鄭部長謝謝好鄭部長好部長早安我們來往下看關於這個霸凌的事情我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個過去這一個禮拜就有三起至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌\n\n2\n00:00:36,041 --> 00:00:53,977\n很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則\n\n3\n00:00:54,838 --> 00:01:22,078\n光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長您一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到相關的調查委員的時候也要外聘\n\n4\n00:01:23,018 --> 00:01:41,850\n當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生師師相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝\n\n5\n00:01:43,272 --> 00:01:59,711\n現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對\n\n6\n00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:25,230\n對,好,那當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠\n\n7\n00:02:26,230 --> 00:02:38,597\n這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分\n\n8\n00:02:42,748 --> 00:03:01,986\n一星平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少兩千五百塊受理後進行調查一個人再兩千五百塊這都只是一個人可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每一千個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是兩千五百元\n\n9\n00:03:03,026 --> 00:03:14,493\n假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是五千塊以上甚至是破萬甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這個事情\n\n10\n00:03:21,396 --> 00:03:40,161\n所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生\n\n11\n00:03:41,101 --> 00:03:43,722\n謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這一個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五\n\n12\n00:04:10,047 --> 00:04:31,115\n每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助\n\n13\n00:04:32,575 --> 00:04:39,782\n所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助\n\n14\n00:04:59,219 --> 00:05:28,291\n我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查\n\n15\n00:05:28,971 --> 00:05:47,821\n其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法\n\n16\n00:05:48,621 --> 00:06:08,699\n我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從一筆一千二筆到一筆九百不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長\n\n17\n00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:34,927\n小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說那個可以讓我們去看心理諮商的可不可以往下到國中因為之前只有18歲到35歲嘛所以我只是要告訴部長也告訴所有的行政長官你們必須要知道很多孩子自己已經有意識了那甚且他們的家長不見得支持如何把孩子的聲音提出來所以我想要再次拜託部長請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光\n\n18\n00:06:42,890 --> 00:07:00,638\n我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理那就送到立法院跟委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好我們8月底之前送進立法院\n\n19\n00:07:02,005 --> 00:07:05,248\n老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦\n\n20\n00:07:21,460 --> 00:07:47,361\n那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分\n\n21\n00:07:48,550 --> 00:08:15,327\n林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個\n\n22\n00:08:16,007 --> 00:08:16,047\n﹑培瑜\n\n23\n00:08:30,947 --> 00:08:32,728\n但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎\n\n24\n00:08:54,284 --> 00:09:03,529\n有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n\n25\n00:09:09,733 --> 00:09:23,790\n我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不宜在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現\n\n26\n00:09:25,913 --> 00:09:45,943\n所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情\n\n27\n00:09:46,263 --> 00:09:59,178\n好像體育界的人對這些事情就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4號在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個\n\n28\n00:10:01,141 --> 00:10:22,603\n我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初台中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場\n\n29\n00:10:23,644 --> 00:10:25,366\n我個人非常震撼這個影片部長我們先看一下\n\n30\n00:10:54,622 --> 00:10:58,184\n部長需要再看一次嗎?我們再看一次嗎?部長您來自教育基層您也當過大學校長您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊\n\n31\n00:11:19,909 --> 00:11:48,280\n部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場施對身霸凌他確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為出現這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個\n\n32\n00:11:49,946 --> 00:12:16,346\n李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠\n\n33\n00:12:17,126 --> 00:12:17,587\n部長,你覺得適合嗎?抱歉\n\n34\n00:12:37,677 --> 00:12:52,045\n您覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對,部長?是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思,我快結束了,下一張。\n\n35\n00:12:54,028 --> 00:13:17,489\n深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去\n\n36\n00:13:18,669 --> 00:13:20,570\n最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了\n\n37\n00:13:43,837 --> 00:14:02,773\n在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長\n\n38\n00:14:03,413 --> 00:14:29,148\n接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝司長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6596\t10677\t好 謝謝主席 那有請鄭部長 謝謝好 鄭部長好 部長早安 我們來往下看關於這個霸凌的事情我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個 過去這一個禮拜就有三起 至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌\n36041\t53977\t很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則\n54838\t82078\t光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長您一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到相關的調查委員的時候也要外聘\n83018\t101850\t當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生師師相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝\n103272\t119711\t現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對\n120960\t145230\t對,好,那當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠\n146230\t158597\t這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分\n162748\t181986\t一星平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少兩千五百塊受理後進行調查一個人再兩千五百塊這都只是一個人可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每一千個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是兩千五百元\n183026\t194493\t假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是五千塊以上甚至是破萬甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這個事情\n201396\t220161\t所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生\n221101\t223722\t謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這一個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五\n250047\t271115\t每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助\n272575\t279782\t所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助\n299219\t328291\t我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查\n328971\t347821\t其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法\n348621\t368699\t我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從一筆一千二筆到一筆九百不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長\n369640\t394927\t小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說那個可以讓我們去看心理諮商的可不可以往下到國中因為之前只有18歲到35歲嘛所以我只是要告訴部長也告訴所有的行政長官你們必須要知道很多孩子自己已經有意識了那甚且他們的家長不見得支持如何把孩子的聲音提出來所以我想要再次拜託部長請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光\n402890\t420638\t我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理那就送到立法院跟委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好我們8月底之前送進立法院\n422005\t425248\t老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦\n441460\t467361\t那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分\n468550\t495327\t林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個\n496007\t496047\t﹑培瑜\n510947\t512728\t但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎\n534284\t543529\t有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n549733\t563790\t我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不宜在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現\n565913\t585943\t所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情\n586263\t599178\t好像體育界的人對這些事情就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4號在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個\n601141\t622603\t我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初台中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場\n623644\t625366\t我個人非常震撼這個影片部長我們先看一下\n654622\t658184\t部長需要再看一次嗎?我們再看一次嗎?部長您來自教育基層您也當過大學校長您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊\n679909\t708280\t部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場施對身霸凌他確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為出現這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個\n709946\t736346\t李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠\n737126\t737587\t部長,你覺得適合嗎?抱歉\n757677\t772045\t您覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對,部長?是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思,我快結束了,下一張。\n774028\t797489\t深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去\n798669\t800570\t最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了\n823837\t842773\t在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長\n843413\t869148\t接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝司長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請鄭部長 謝謝好 鄭部長好 部長早安 我們來往下看關於這個霸凌的事情我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個 過去這一個禮拜就有三起 至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌\n很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則\n光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長您一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到相關的調查委員的時候也要外聘\n當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生師師相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝\n現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對\n對,好,那當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠\n這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分\n一星平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少兩千五百塊受理後進行調查一個人再兩千五百塊這都只是一個人可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每一千個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是兩千五百元\n假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是五千塊以上甚至是破萬甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這個事情\n所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生\n謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這一個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五\n每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助\n所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助\n我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查\n其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法\n我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從一筆一千二筆到一筆九百不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長\n小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說那個可以讓我們去看心理諮商的可不可以往下到國中因為之前只有18歲到35歲嘛所以我只是要告訴部長也告訴所有的行政長官你們必須要知道很多孩子自己已經有意識了那甚且他們的家長不見得支持如何把孩子的聲音提出來所以我想要再次拜託部長請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光\n我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理那就送到立法院跟委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好我們8月底之前送進立法院\n老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦\n那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分\n林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個\n﹑培瑜\n但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎\n有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不宜在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現\n所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情\n好像體育界的人對這些事情就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4號在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個\n我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初台中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場\n我個人非常震撼這個影片部長我們先看一下\n部長需要再看一次嗎?我們再看一次嗎?部長您來自教育基層您也當過大學校長您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊\n部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場施對身霸凌他確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為出現這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個\n李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠\n部長,你覺得適合嗎?抱歉\n您覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對,部長?是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思,我快結束了,下一張。\n深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去\n最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了\n在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長\n接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝司長 謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.596 --> 00:10.677\n好謝謝主席那有請鄭部長謝謝好鄭部長好部長早安我們來往下看關於這個霸凌的事情我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個過去這一個禮拜就有三起至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌\n\n00:36.041 --> 00:53.977\n很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則\n\n00:54.838 --> 01:22.078\n光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長您一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到相關的調查委員的時候也要外聘\n\n01:23.018 --> 01:41.850\n當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生師師相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝\n\n01:43.272 --> 01:59.711\n現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對\n\n02:00.960 --> 02:25.230\n對,好,那當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠\n\n02:26.230 --> 02:38.597\n這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分\n\n02:42.748 --> 03:01.986\n一星平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少兩千五百塊受理後進行調查一個人再兩千五百塊這都只是一個人可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每一千個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是兩千五百元\n\n03:03.026 --> 03:14.493\n假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是五千塊以上甚至是破萬甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這個事情\n\n03:21.396 --> 03:40.161\n所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生\n\n03:41.101 --> 03:43.722\n謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這一個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五\n\n04:10.047 --> 04:31.115\n每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助\n\n04:32.575 --> 04:39.782\n所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助\n\n04:59.219 --> 05:28.291\n我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查\n\n05:28.971 --> 05:47.821\n其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法\n\n05:48.621 --> 06:08.699\n我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從一筆一千二筆到一筆九百不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長\n\n06:09.640 --> 06:34.927\n小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說那個可以讓我們去看心理諮商的可不可以往下到國中因為之前只有18歲到35歲嘛所以我只是要告訴部長也告訴所有的行政長官你們必須要知道很多孩子自己已經有意識了那甚且他們的家長不見得支持如何把孩子的聲音提出來所以我想要再次拜託部長請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光\n\n06:42.890 --> 07:00.638\n我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理那就送到立法院跟委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好我們8月底之前送進立法院\n\n07:02.005 --> 07:05.248\n老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦\n\n07:21.460 --> 07:47.361\n那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分\n\n07:48.550 --> 08:15.327\n林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個\n\n08:16.007 --> 08:16.047\n﹑培瑜\n\n08:30.947 --> 08:32.728\n但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎\n\n08:54.284 --> 09:03.529\n有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?\n\n09:09.733 --> 09:23.790\n我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不宜在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現\n\n09:25.913 --> 09:45.943\n所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情\n\n09:46.263 --> 09:59.178\n好像體育界的人對這些事情就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4號在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個\n\n10:01.141 --> 10:22.603\n我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初台中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場\n\n10:23.644 --> 10:25.366\n我個人非常震撼這個影片部長我們先看一下\n\n10:54.622 --> 10:58.184\n部長需要再看一次嗎?我們再看一次嗎?部長您來自教育基層您也當過大學校長您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊\n\n11:19.909 --> 11:48.280\n部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場施對身霸凌他確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為出現這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個\n\n11:49.946 --> 12:16.346\n李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠\n\n12:17.126 --> 12:17.587\n部長,你覺得適合嗎?抱歉\n\n12:37.677 --> 12:52.045\n您覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對,部長?是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思,我快結束了,下一張。\n\n12:54.028 --> 13:17.489\n深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去\n\n13:18.669 --> 13:20.570\n最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了\n\n13:43.837 --> 14:02.773\n在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長\n\n14:03.413 --> 14:29.148\n接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝司長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.596,"end":10.677,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請鄭部長 謝謝好 鄭部長好 部長早安 我們來往下看關於這個霸凌的事情我們就只抓最近這一個禮拜的新聞光是這一個 過去這一個禮拜就有三起 至少三起那樣態我想前面已經有很多委員說就簡單的說有師生聯手霸凌學生師對生霸凌還有生對生霸凌"},{"start":36.041,"end":53.977,"text":"很多人很容易在網路上或是社群平台上或者是在很多學生的次元化團體的社群平台上看到這些訊息他不僅會有模仿效應他其實也會引起非常多家長的恐懼我要談的是這個困境當然我要非常感謝教育部在前一陣子公布了霸凌防制準則"},{"start":54.838,"end":82.078,"text":"光是在這件事情上我們知道教育部跟不同的委員還有跟不同的民間團體專家學者真的開了無數次的會我相信這個會最辛苦的學特司司長您一定非常清楚可是我們來到現場看到另外一個困境往下在霸凌防制準則裏面我們提到相關的委員會必須要過半數委員要從深對深的人才庫外聘或者是高中以下這個三聘解聘辦法裏面談到相關的調查委員的時候也要外聘"},{"start":83.018,"end":101.85,"text":"當時我覺得非常多委員都有強調這個事情是希望保持校內裡面不要產生師師相互或者是沒有相關專家學者進入這個調查當中可是在執行之後發生了一個很大的困境那我必須要說這個困境我自己先承認其實我也不知道會發生這個困境非常感謝"},{"start":103.272,"end":119.711,"text":"現場的校長、主任跟老師積極地告訴我們他們遇到什麼困境是費用的問題每一個外聘委員的費用還有寫調查報告的費用都必須由學校自行支付這個部分我不知道學特司司長我講的對不對"},{"start":120.96,"end":145.23,"text":"對,好,那當我們聽到這個消息之後我們最大的疑問是那錢從哪裡來?很多的校長直接告訴我們學校會有一部分的費用是支付在這裡的真的不夠的呢就是拜託家長會用家長募款的方法來指引這些費用那再不夠呢通常我們發現越小的學校或者是都會型的學校越多相關案件所以錢很不夠"},{"start":146.23,"end":158.597,"text":"這個很不夠的狀況我覺得已經造成學校的困擾了我要自己再度承認確實我們當時完全沒有想到這個事情那我很好奇目前學特司這邊或是教育部這邊怎麼因應這個費用的部分"},{"start":162.748,"end":181.986,"text":"一星平案調查為例第一次召開會議外聘委員出席一個人至少兩千五百塊受理後進行調查一個人再兩千五百塊這都只是一個人可是我剛剛說要兩個到三個或是過半數以上相關調查報告每一千個字1080元到了結案會議一個人又是兩千五百元"},{"start":183.026,"end":194.493,"text":"假設事件成立我們推斷到霸凌又產生了這麼多費用也就是每一個案子至少都是五千塊以上甚至是破萬甚至有一些案件因為家長的堅持他必須不斷不斷不斷召開相關的委員會來討論這個事情"},{"start":201.396,"end":220.161,"text":"所以所產生的費用我這裡寫的都還算稍微保留一些些但是我們真的很擔心目前這些費用我們到底要如何協助學校因為如果光是費用的部分就讓學校這麼頭痛更不要講這所有調查的程序跟中間所有老師家長還有行政員還有學生"},{"start":221.101,"end":223.722,"text":"謝謝委員的指正我們確實在這一個部分校外委員、調查委員外聘的這個費用除了地方政府上的協助我們大概現在每一案是給一萬到一萬五"},{"start":250.047,"end":271.115,"text":"每一個案子嗎?每一個城的案子嗎?有師對生的校園霸凌生對生那師對生這個部分是給一萬五因為他涉及到老師那生對生是我們給一萬除了地方政府的一個經費的支持以外協助地方的中小學那教育部在這個部分我們也提供經費的一個補助"},{"start":272.575,"end":279.782,"text":"所以目前你們聽到的縣市政府或者是地方學校給你們的回饋目前的費用都沒有問題可是跟我們聽到的感覺起來很大的落差因為我們這個就是如同委員所提的這個辦法我們才剛實施然後所以我們從5月也發現這個問題然後5月份才開始等於上個月開始我們才提供這樣一個經費補助"},{"start":299.219,"end":328.291,"text":"我相信因為接下來就要放暑假了可是是不是可以規劃一個時程表到底要怎麼收縣市政府教育局他們相關的意見跟費用還有當這些委員會一旦一旦不斷的開啟之後所有老師們如果要花費非常多力氣跟時間在這些事情上那影響到他們教學的狀況又會是如何因為已經有很多的文章跟投書直接告訴教育部告訴地方教育局請把老師還給我們做教學而不是做調查"},{"start":328.971,"end":347.821,"text":"其實之前在討論霸凌防制準則的時候我們就也一直拜託教育部必須要把教育的理念放進去所以我也要echo一下剛剛昭緯所提到的學輔法的部分為什麼要談到學輔法其實賴清德總統在選舉的時候單獨的寫出一個法關於學生的部分就非常的明確寫出推動學生輔導法修法"},{"start":348.621,"end":368.699,"text":"我相信這絕對不是天外飛來一筆我相信已經有很多的人意識到身心健康這件事情在中學、小學到高中其實已經有很大的困境當然我非常感謝教育部在上一個會期已經通過大學生從一筆一千二筆到一筆九百不修法直接給予費用但是我真的要拜託部長"},{"start":369.64,"end":394.927,"text":"小學、中學跟高中真的有很大的困境所以之前才會有學生主動跟賴清德總統提出說那個可以讓我們去看心理諮商的可不可以往下到國中因為之前只有18歲到35歲嘛所以我只是要告訴部長也告訴所有的行政長官你們必須要知道很多孩子自己已經有意識了那甚且他們的家長不見得支持如何把孩子的聲音提出來所以我想要再次拜託部長請問學生輔導法什麼時候會讓我們看見一線曙光"},{"start":402.89,"end":420.638,"text":"我們8月底就先安排行政院會處理那就送到立法院跟委員報告我們基本上現在這個努力安排在8月底之前能夠送到行政院為什麼朝偉突然好我們8月底之前送進立法院"},{"start":422.005,"end":425.248,"text":"老師們的痛苦其實也回應到家長在這件事情上的無力跟無能跟不知道該怎麼辦"},{"start":441.46,"end":467.361,"text":"那非常非常多的困境需要大家一起幫忙我們就先記得8月底以前但是相關我剛剛說那個費用的部分相關的規收集相關的資訊然後進一步的規劃報告有機會在三個月內給所有教育文化委員會的委員一份報告嗎關於我剛剛前一頁說的那個委員會調查費用的部分目前各縣市政府執行的狀況我們在9月9月底之前好9月底之前好不好謝謝部長好那我們下一個部分"},{"start":468.55,"end":495.327,"text":"林榮忍的部分其實一直是教育部談的林榮忍什麼呢?霸凌林榮忍、毒品林榮忍、性騷林榮忍、惡虐林榮忍部長您認同嗎?這我認同那部長您上任不久我想要快速跟你分享一下我們辦公室過去這一年多以來一直在關注所有在學校現場除了一般的教學現場之外在學校另外一個樣貌就是跟體育運動發展有關的樣態有非常多問題要拜託部長跟署長接下來我們一起努力喔好來第一個"},{"start":496.007,"end":496.047,"text":"﹑培瑜"},{"start":510.947,"end":512.728,"text":"但是體育署當時給我們的回覆卻說下一頁沒有相關法源沒有辦法做部長你覺得這樣適合嗎"},{"start":534.284,"end":543.529,"text":"有我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品的這些大人們一再一再出現在所有孩子們的運動場合當主持人也好當評審也好當教練也好當各式各樣的有權力有資源的人也好部長你覺得這樣適合嗎?"},{"start":549.733,"end":563.79,"text":"我想這個儘管法令上沒有這個明文的規範但是就教育的觀點我們其實對有一些有可能有存有爭議的我想他忍不宜在許多的公開場合頒獎的典禮裡邊的出現"},{"start":565.913,"end":585.943,"text":"所以部長你應該是認同我的說法其實我相信署長也認同署長確實在過去這一段時間做了非常非常多努力可是我必須要說體育現場有很多過去遺留下來這種父權體制底下大家對於這些事情的不在意跟不重視或者是根本不覺得這是重要的事情就是我剛剛說的霸凌、體罰、性騷、毒品這些事情"},{"start":586.263,"end":599.178,"text":"好像體育界的人對這些事情就覺得理所當然可是我們知道那絕對不是所有體育人都是這樣我再舉一個例子6月4號在一個網路社群叫靠北排球2.0裡面他們指出有一個曾經性騷啦啦隊的一個"},{"start":601.141,"end":622.603,"text":"我都不想叫他是一個什麼專業人士結果沒有想到他在這個月初台中辦理的聯裝盃國際排球賽是體育署補助上百萬這個人他竟然再被找去現場當比賽主持人又再一次發生這樣的狀況一樣沒有因為沒有那個名單所以零容忍的每一個現場不是教育部或是體育署第一時間可以到達現場"},{"start":623.644,"end":625.366,"text":"我個人非常震撼這個影片部長我們先看一下"},{"start":654.622,"end":658.184,"text":"部長需要再看一次嗎?我們再看一次嗎?部長您來自教育基層您也當過大學校長您覺得這位教練他在做什麼事情?他是一個曾經拿過冠軍的排球隊"},{"start":679.909,"end":708.28,"text":"部長我幫你說好了啦你可能不好說你覺得那還是我直接問你覺得他算不算是一種體罰球員霸凌現場施對身霸凌他確實有一個不當的一個指導的一個行為出現這樣的現場就是我說的屢屢發生可是我們看起來好像沒有辦法對他做什麼事情這個影片還是有觀眾在看台上這個影片我們已經在我們辦公室放很久但是一直都沒有機會跟部長您討論從我剛剛所有的案例到下面一個再來一個"},{"start":709.946,"end":736.346,"text":"李歐仁我要再一次強調不要再只是口號因為體育署之後要升格作為體育運動發展部一旦到部的規格如果我們沒有處理過去遺留下來的舊的專制權威的體育文化我們會遇到很大的困境升格之後這些事情該怎麼辦難道要請大家繼續容忍嗎?絕對不是這樣我相信部長跟署長一定也認同監察院在108年對於清溪國中一個教練提出糾正案他的名字叫陳世忠"},{"start":737.126,"end":737.587,"text":"部長,你覺得適合嗎?抱歉"},{"start":757.677,"end":772.045,"text":"您覺得適合嗎?當然不適合。不適合嗎?所以零容忍嘛,對不對,部長?是。好,那我們一起努力好不好,部長。我們再跟你講最後一件事情。在體育文化裡面除了兒少的部分之外,謝謝主席,不好意思,我快結束了,下一張。"},{"start":774.028,"end":797.489,"text":"深隔之路這件事情我剛剛說要從組織文化改善我們之前跟體育署問了關於體育署在那個發生中華奧會女性遲到自殘這件事情我們請體育署協同勞動部去盤查相關的勞動環境結果體育署給我們的回覆說有跟勞動部一起去了可是我們就問那相關的會議資料往下結果後來才發現說根本就沒有找勞動部一起去"},{"start":798.669,"end":800.57,"text":"最後我想要拜託部長這件事情再下一張怎麼這麼多案例這樣好我們直接來到結論好了"},{"start":823.837,"end":842.773,"text":"在主改的議題之前我要拜託部長對於體育文化、組織文化改造這件事情體育的改革國人期待真的非常非常非常高只要我們每次辦公室講到跟體育運動有關的議題就會很多人再給我們更多的案例其實我自己都做到快要無力了這樣齁所以這個部分真的要拜託部長跟署長"},{"start":843.413,"end":869.148,"text":"接下來體育行政是不是應該有進步思維關於兒少人權性品這也是賴清德總統也是民進黨執政黨自己最在意的進步價值但是我相信他絕對不該只是口號這個進步價值真的必須要積極落實在所有的組織文化當中是不是可以拜託部長跟署長我們之後一起努力關於相關的議題這件事情我就沒有辦法壓時間因為組織文化改造是非常非常困難的事情但是我真的要拜託部長好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 謝謝司長 謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}}}