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10:34:19","影片長度":"00:10:40","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法第七十條之一、第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等27人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等20人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（六）委員沈伯洋等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【第（四）至（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:23:39+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:34:19+08:00","duration":640,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":32,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-32"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":491,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（10時23分）謝謝主席，請吳秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩秘書長。"],["陳委員俊宇：秘書長早。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好。"],["陳委員俊宇：今天我們要併案審查刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案，其中三黨黨團或委員都有個別提出對於科技偵查訂定專章的草案。誠如我們上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到的，究竟是要訂定一個專法，還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容，這也是接下來朝野協商對於所要採取的法律去進行抉擇，同時也有看到其他委員提出質疑，認為司法院應該要拿出更積極的作為，若相同內容能夠訂在刑事訴訟法當中，則應該不需再另訂專法。也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見，攸關未來實務上的運作，在此我想請教秘書長，司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法，還是有其他相關考量的理由，是不是可以請秘書長來簡單說明一下？"],["吳秘書長三龍：向委員說明，司法院認為以專法來規定比較適合，因為行政院版的草案也已經經過多方的討論，有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段，所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎，因為科技偵查手段可能持續在增加，所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣，便於統一規範，能夠迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有蒐集證據的需要。假如要放在刑事訴訟法，可能還要再整體盤點刑事訴訟法本身……"],["陳委員俊宇：好，沒關係，秘書長，你們就是傾向於制定專法，這我們也尊重。我想司法院跟法務部在修法的過程裡面，應該也經過充分的溝通跟討論，但是在科技偵查的實務上，還是要由檢調在調查案件的時候來發動這個情況，現在不論是GPS還是M化車，雖然都是相當基本的科技偵查手段，但事實上，若監控的時間足夠長，還是對個人隱私有相當程度的侵害。尤其在條文當中，檢察官認為有必要時就能夠發動偵查，我想請問秘書長，草案對於法官保留和審查的機制是否都已經非常周全了？"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為現在科偵法草案所規定的三種類型，不管是在人的定位追蹤、M化車、行動通訊設備的追蹤定位，以及具有隱私空間內人物的監錄，這些都有採取法官保留事先來審查，縱使在緊急調查的這種狀況，也是由法官事後來加以審查，可以說是依照強制處分，對於基本權的干預侵害程度有做層級化的授權。另外，在審查機制方面，申請書面應該要記載的內容，這些包括所使用的科技方法，還有使用該科技方法調查得取的標的，這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載。所以就整體來講，這個專法的草案所採的法官保留範圍及審查機制，就人民的隱私權……"],["陳委員俊宇：已經非常周全了嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：應該算足夠了。當然還要再做某部分的加強，但初步是認為已經足夠了。"],["陳委員俊宇：初步就已經認定足夠了？"],["吳秘書長三龍：對，已經足夠了。"],["陳委員俊宇：那就是該加強的部分再加強，先前法務部也曾提及，在未來修法通過之後，能夠有一個比較完善的內控機制，讓偵辦的過程能夠順利來辦理，也可以降低對於人民隱私的侵害，以及防範遭到濫用的可能性。對此我想再請教秘書長，司法院對於相關單位有沒有其他要求或是規範，來降低科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能？"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留，並且在核發許可書的時候，對執行人員方面也為必要的指示，此外，在草案中也規範有事後通知的程序，包括事後救濟制度也都有規範，還有資料保管銷毀機制，可說是可以來降低這類……"],["陳委員俊宇：會不會被濫用？秘書長，會不會被濫用？"],["吳秘書長三龍：草案應該也都有考慮到這些，應該都有相當的一種……看怎麼來防範。"],["陳委員俊宇：我想在我們打擊詐騙或是打擊犯罪的工作上，還是需要各部會通力合作，我相信司法院和各級法院也都責無旁貸要扮演懲罰犯罪最重要的角色，不論最後協商的結果是要訂定專法，還是修訂專章，我想當務之急還是要儘快在各版本的條文內容上取得一個共識，並且讓修法儘速完成，給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器，這才是重點啦！","接下來我想再請教秘書長，另外一個審查的重點是對於偵查中限制辯護權行使的修正，依照憲法法庭111年憲判字第7號判決確立偵查中辯護人的筆記權，並且要能夠強化實質有效的辯護功能，完善保障人民的訴訟權。我們也看到司法院、行政院還有委員們，對此都有提出修正的版本，我想就一個可能發生的狀況來請教秘書長，今天假設律師在偵訊作筆記，但檢察官還是不允許，也就是說，他當下沒有得到筆記的權利，在救濟之後，應該要如何來處理？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這一次司法院和行政院後來有共識，就是提出來的乙案裡面有增訂第二百四十一條之一，關於禁止或限制處分的救濟，這些有增訂在第二百四十五條之一，有做一個如何救濟的方式。"],["陳委員俊宇：上面有記載嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：有，有如何來救濟，這一次……"],["陳委員俊宇：針對這部分，是不是會後請你們的同仁再給我一份資料？"],["吳秘書長三龍：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外我想就教秘書長，我有看到沈伯洋委員提案，希望在保障辯護人筆記權的同時，也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異，得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄，我想這應該也是符合現代工作習慣所提出的修正方案，因為現在的工作，在實務上作筆記應該也不僅限制於紙筆，在電子設備上，若有妥善的規範，是否也可以歸納為未來輔助筆記的工具？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到，其實司法院是尊重的啦！"],["陳委員俊宇：尊重？"],["吳秘書長三龍：我們尊重委員提出來這樣一種方向。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我可不可以請問黃次長，針對這個部分，法務部的看法呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這個憲判字確立的是辯護人的筆記權，所以我們要確保辯護人在偵查中可以筆記。利用科技設備去筆記，在個案上由檢察官去判斷是否符合筆記的概念。我們要強調的是，如果這個科技設備本身有錄音、錄影、傳送功能的話，我們是禁止的，因為會影響偵查不公開原則的處理。所以個案上符不符合筆記的要件，由個案的檢察官自己去做判斷。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下，法務部與司法院應該都同意用電子筆記來做備載的方式，這個工具可以認同吧？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我還是強調那句話，個案上因為科技設備本身有沒有夾帶了其他的錄音、錄影功能，檢察官必須個案去判斷，所以這部分我們不能通案性地說電子設備可以或不可以，個案上由檢察官去做判斷。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我剛剛強調的是在規範清楚的狀況之下，就誠如剛剛次長您說的，相關設備如果經過認定是可以的，只是一個簡單的電子筆記功能的話，我們應該是可以認同嘛？"],["黃次長謀信：對，如果個案檢察官這樣子判斷的話，理論上是可以的。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝秘書長及次長。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-32","speakers":["吳宗憲","沈伯洋","鍾佳濱","羅智強","傅崐萁","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","黃國昌","吳思瑤","林思銘","洪孟楷","翁曉玲"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法第七十條之一、第二百四十五條及第二百四\n十五條之一條文修正草案」案；(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案；\n(三)委員羅智強等27人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條條文修正草案」案；(四)委員吳宗憲等\n20人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案；(五)委員鍾佳濱等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部\n分條文草案」案；(六)委員沈伯洋等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之\n一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"153824","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153824","tool":"pyannote","id":"153824-pyannote"},"job_id":"qn4L3ngvSG6LCWtd","queued_at":"2024-06-12 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{\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 138.365, \"end\": 138.565, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 138.565, \"end\": 139.546, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 139.546, \"end\": 139.706, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 139.706, \"end\": 139.886, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 139.886, \"end\": 140.086, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 140.086, \"end\": 140.346, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 140.346, \"end\": 140.566, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 140.566, \"end\": 140.727, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"訟\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 140.727, \"end\": 141.968, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 141.968, \"end\": 142.168, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 142.168, \"end\": 142.428, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 142.428, \"end\": 142.588, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 638.567, \"end\": 638.787, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 638.787, \"end\": 638.907, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 638.907, \"end\": 639.187, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 639.187, \"end\": 639.688, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 639.688, \"end\": 639.708, \"score\": 0.483}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,657 --> 00:00:18,946\n好謝謝主席我們請吳秘書長麻煩秘書長秘書長早\n\n2\n00:00:24,847 --> 00:00:47,620\n委員好今天我們要併案審查有關這個刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文那其中三黨的黨團或委員各別有提出對於科技偵查訂定的專章的這個草案那也誠如我們在上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到究竟是要訂定一個專法\n\n3\n00:00:48,741 --> 00:01:03,214\n還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容。這也是接下來草野協商對於所要採取的這個法律去進行抉擇。那也有看到其他委員提出質疑認為我們司法院應該要拿出更積極的這個作為。\n\n4\n00:01:04,815 --> 00:01:28,016\n如果相同內容能夠定在刑事訴訟法當中則應該不須再另訂專法。那也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見攸關未來實務上的運作。那在此我想請教秘書長司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法還是相關的考量的理由是不是可以請秘書長來做簡單的說明一下。\n\n5\n00:01:30,936 --> 00:01:53,562\n像委員說明那麼司法院是認為以專法來規定比較適合因為行政院版的這個草案也已經經過多方的討論有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎\n\n6\n00:01:56,909 --> 00:02:22,628\n因為這個科技偵查手段可能持續在增加所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣那麼便宜來統一規範能夠來迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有收集證據的需要那假如說要放在那個刑事訴訟法那可能還要再\n\n7\n00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:50,279\n在整體盤點那個刑事訴訟法本身好沒關係民眾黨你們就是傾向就是制定專法那這我們也尊重那我想我們司法院跟這個法務部在修法的過程裡面應該也經過充分的這個溝通跟討論那但是在這個科技偵查的實務上還是要有檢調在調查案件的這個時候來發動\n\n8\n00:02:53,880 --> 00:03:18,089\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n9\n00:03:19,850 --> 00:03:24,896\n草案對於法官保留和審查的這個機制是否都已經非常的周全了?\n\n10\n00:03:26,042 --> 00:03:52,210\n因為現在在這個科診法草案所規定的三種類型那不管在這個人的定位追蹤還有M化車的這個行動通信的設備的這個追蹤定位以及藉由這個隱私空間內的人物的監錄那這些都有採取法官保留事件來審查\n\n11\n00:03:53,030 --> 00:04:16,702\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條\n\n12\n00:04:18,223 --> 00:04:43,180\n那這些包括所使用的科技方法還有使用該科技方法調查得取的這些標的那這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載所以就整體來講這個專法的草案所採的法官保留的範圍還有這個審查機制就人民的飲食錢已經非常周全了嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:59,422\n就應該算足夠了啦。應該算足夠。當然還要再做某部分的加強。那是初步是認為已經足夠了啦。已經足夠了。初步就已經認定足夠了。已經有足夠了。\n\n14\n00:05:00,003 --> 00:05:24,700\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n15\n00:05:30,844 --> 00:05:34,829\n這個科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能。」\n\n16\n00:05:35,678 --> 00:05:59,813\n因為在這個草案這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留那麼並且在這個核發許可書的時候對主刑人員方面也為必要的指示除外這個在草案中也規範有事後通知的這樣的一種程序事後救濟制度這些也都有規範還有這個\n\n17\n00:06:02,254 --> 00:06:08,162\n資料保管消費機制可以說是可以來降低會不會被濫用?那個秘書長會不會被濫用?\n\n18\n00:06:11,596 --> 00:06:33,931\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n19\n00:06:35,232 --> 00:06:57,072\n懲罰犯罪最重要的角色不論是最後協商的結果是要訂定這個專法還是修訂專章那我想當務之急還是要盡快在各版本的這個條文內容上去取得一個共識那並且讓修法競速來完成給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器才是一個重點\n\n20\n00:06:57,813 --> 00:07:11,631\n三條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n\n21\n00:07:12,605 --> 00:07:27,877\n五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n\n22\n00:07:28,658 --> 00:07:52,658\n那我們也看到司法院還有行政院還有委員們對此都有提出修正的版本那我想就一個可能發生的這個狀況來請教秘書長那今天假設律師在徵訊做筆記但檢察官還是不允許也就是說他當下沒有得到這個筆記的權利那在救濟之後應該要如何來處理\n\n23\n00:07:56,050 --> 00:08:20,288\n這一次在司法院、行政院後來有共識提出來的議案裡面就這些有增訂241條之一,假如禁止或限制處分的一個救濟這些有增訂在第245條之一有做一個如何救濟的方式\n\n24\n00:08:22,284 --> 00:08:37,792\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n25\n00:08:38,252 --> 00:08:58,155\n希望能夠保障辯護人筆記權的同時也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄我想這應該也是符合現代的這個工作習慣所提出的這個修正方案因為現在的這個工作實務上做筆記也應該不僅限制於紙筆\n\n26\n00:08:59,276 --> 00:09:24,913\n在電子設備上若有妥善的規範是否也可以歸納為我們未來筆記輔助筆記的一個工作的一個工具。這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到我們司法院是尊重的。尊重這樣提出來這樣一種方向。那我可不可以請我們黃次長那針對這個部分我們法務部的這個看法勒?\n\n27\n00:09:25,213 --> 00:09:25,994\n條文修正草案案刑事訴訟法\n\n28\n00:09:56,154 --> 00:10:19,069\n如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下,我們法務部跟司法院應該都同意用這個電子筆記來做這個備載的方式,應該這個工具可以認同嗎?各位報告,我還是強調那句話,個案上他因為因為那個科技設備他本身有沒有夾帶了其他的輪流功能,夾關他必須個案去判斷。所以這邊我們不能夠通案性的說電子設備可以或不可以。\n\n29\n00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:39,708\n我剛剛強調的就是在規範清楚的狀況之下就誠如剛剛次長您說的我們相關設備如果經過認定說它這個可以它只是一個簡單的一個電子的這個筆記的功能的話我們應該是可以認同嗎?對,如果個案講到這樣子判斷的話理論上是可以的好,謝謝我們民主黨跟次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15657\t18946\t好謝謝主席我們請吳秘書長麻煩秘書長秘書長早\n24847\t47620\t委員好今天我們要併案審查有關這個刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文那其中三黨的黨團或委員各別有提出對於科技偵查訂定的專章的這個草案那也誠如我們在上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到究竟是要訂定一個專法\n48741\t63214\t還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容。這也是接下來草野協商對於所要採取的這個法律去進行抉擇。那也有看到其他委員提出質疑認為我們司法院應該要拿出更積極的這個作為。\n64815\t88016\t如果相同內容能夠定在刑事訴訟法當中則應該不須再另訂專法。那也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見攸關未來實務上的運作。那在此我想請教秘書長司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法還是相關的考量的理由是不是可以請秘書長來做簡單的說明一下。\n90936\t113562\t像委員說明那麼司法院是認為以專法來規定比較適合因為行政院版的這個草案也已經經過多方的討論有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎\n116909\t142628\t因為這個科技偵查手段可能持續在增加所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣那麼便宜來統一規範能夠來迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有收集證據的需要那假如說要放在那個刑事訴訟法那可能還要再\n145450\t170279\t在整體盤點那個刑事訴訟法本身好沒關係民眾黨你們就是傾向就是制定專法那這我們也尊重那我想我們司法院跟這個法務部在修法的過程裡面應該也經過充分的這個溝通跟討論那但是在這個科技偵查的實務上還是要有檢調在調查案件的這個時候來發動\n173880\t198089\t三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n199850\t204896\t草案對於法官保留和審查的這個機制是否都已經非常的周全了?\n206042\t232210\t因為現在在這個科診法草案所規定的三種類型那不管在這個人的定位追蹤還有M化車的這個行動通信的設備的這個追蹤定位以及藉由這個隱私空間內的人物的監錄那這些都有採取法官保留事件來審查\n233030\t256702\t四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條\n258223\t283180\t那這些包括所使用的科技方法還有使用該科技方法調查得取的這些標的那這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載所以就整體來講這個專法的草案所採的法官保留的範圍還有這個審查機制就人民的飲食錢已經非常周全了嗎?\n283800\t299422\t就應該算足夠了啦。應該算足夠。當然還要再做某部分的加強。那是初步是認為已經足夠了啦。已經足夠了。初步就已經認定足夠了。已經有足夠了。\n300003\t324700\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n330844\t334829\t這個科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能。」\n335678\t359813\t因為在這個草案這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留那麼並且在這個核發許可書的時候對主刑人員方面也為必要的指示除外這個在草案中也規範有事後通知的這樣的一種程序事後救濟制度這些也都有規範還有這個\n362254\t368162\t資料保管消費機制可以說是可以來降低會不會被濫用?那個秘書長會不會被濫用?\n371596\t393931\t三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n395232\t417072\t懲罰犯罪最重要的角色不論是最後協商的結果是要訂定這個專法還是修訂專章那我想當務之急還是要盡快在各版本的這個條文內容上去取得一個共識那並且讓修法競速來完成給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器才是一個重點\n417813\t431631\t三條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n432605\t447877\t五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n448658\t472658\t那我們也看到司法院還有行政院還有委員們對此都有提出修正的版本那我想就一個可能發生的這個狀況來請教秘書長那今天假設律師在徵訊做筆記但檢察官還是不允許也就是說他當下沒有得到這個筆記的權利那在救濟之後應該要如何來處理\n476050\t500288\t這一次在司法院、行政院後來有共識提出來的議案裡面就這些有增訂241條之一,假如禁止或限制處分的一個救濟這些有增訂在第245條之一有做一個如何救濟的方式\n502284\t517792\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n518252\t538155\t希望能夠保障辯護人筆記權的同時也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄我想這應該也是符合現代的這個工作習慣所提出的這個修正方案因為現在的這個工作實務上做筆記也應該不僅限制於紙筆\n539276\t564913\t在電子設備上若有妥善的規範是否也可以歸納為我們未來筆記輔助筆記的一個工作的一個工具。這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到我們司法院是尊重的。尊重這樣提出來這樣一種方向。那我可不可以請我們黃次長那針對這個部分我們法務部的這個看法勒?\n565213\t565994\t條文修正草案案 刑事訴訟法\n596154\t619069\t如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下,我們法務部跟司法院應該都同意用這個電子筆記來做這個備載的方式,應該這個工具可以認同嗎?各位報告,我還是強調那句話,個案上他因為因為那個科技設備他本身有沒有夾帶了其他的輪流功能,夾關他必須個案去判斷。所以這邊我們不能夠通案性的說電子設備可以或不可以。\n620770\t639708\t我剛剛強調的就是在規範清楚的狀況之下就誠如剛剛次長您說的我們相關設備如果經過認定說它這個可以它只是一個簡單的一個電子的這個筆記的功能的話我們應該是可以認同嗎?對,如果個案講到這樣子判斷的話理論上是可以的好,謝謝我們民主黨跟次長\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請吳秘書長麻煩秘書長秘書長早\n委員好今天我們要併案審查有關這個刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文那其中三黨的黨團或委員各別有提出對於科技偵查訂定的專章的這個草案那也誠如我們在上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到究竟是要訂定一個專法\n還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容。這也是接下來草野協商對於所要採取的這個法律去進行抉擇。那也有看到其他委員提出質疑認為我們司法院應該要拿出更積極的這個作為。\n如果相同內容能夠定在刑事訴訟法當中則應該不須再另訂專法。那也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見攸關未來實務上的運作。那在此我想請教秘書長司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法還是相關的考量的理由是不是可以請秘書長來做簡單的說明一下。\n像委員說明那麼司法院是認為以專法來規定比較適合因為行政院版的這個草案也已經經過多方的討論有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎\n因為這個科技偵查手段可能持續在增加所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣那麼便宜來統一規範能夠來迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有收集證據的需要那假如說要放在那個刑事訴訟法那可能還要再\n在整體盤點那個刑事訴訟法本身好沒關係民眾黨你們就是傾向就是制定專法那這我們也尊重那我想我們司法院跟這個法務部在修法的過程裡面應該也經過充分的這個溝通跟討論那但是在這個科技偵查的實務上還是要有檢調在調查案件的這個時候來發動\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n草案對於法官保留和審查的這個機制是否都已經非常的周全了?\n因為現在在這個科診法草案所規定的三種類型那不管在這個人的定位追蹤還有M化車的這個行動通信的設備的這個追蹤定位以及藉由這個隱私空間內的人物的監錄那這些都有採取法官保留事件來審查\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條\n那這些包括所使用的科技方法還有使用該科技方法調查得取的這些標的那這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載所以就整體來講這個專法的草案所採的法官保留的範圍還有這個審查機制就人民的飲食錢已經非常周全了嗎?\n就應該算足夠了啦。應該算足夠。當然還要再做某部分的加強。那是初步是認為已經足夠了啦。已經足夠了。初步就已經認定足夠了。已經有足夠了。\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n這個科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能。」\n因為在這個草案這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留那麼並且在這個核發許可書的時候對主刑人員方面也為必要的指示除外這個在草案中也規範有事後通知的這樣的一種程序事後救濟制度這些也都有規範還有這個\n資料保管消費機制可以說是可以來降低會不會被濫用?那個秘書長會不會被濫用?\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n懲罰犯罪最重要的角色不論是最後協商的結果是要訂定這個專法還是修訂專章那我想當務之急還是要盡快在各版本的這個條文內容上去取得一個共識那並且讓修法競速來完成給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器才是一個重點\n三條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n那我們也看到司法院還有行政院還有委員們對此都有提出修正的版本那我想就一個可能發生的這個狀況來請教秘書長那今天假設律師在徵訊做筆記但檢察官還是不允許也就是說他當下沒有得到這個筆記的權利那在救濟之後應該要如何來處理\n這一次在司法院、行政院後來有共識提出來的議案裡面就這些有增訂241條之一,假如禁止或限制處分的一個救濟這些有增訂在第245條之一有做一個如何救濟的方式\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n希望能夠保障辯護人筆記權的同時也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄我想這應該也是符合現代的這個工作習慣所提出的這個修正方案因為現在的這個工作實務上做筆記也應該不僅限制於紙筆\n在電子設備上若有妥善的規範是否也可以歸納為我們未來筆記輔助筆記的一個工作的一個工具。這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到我們司法院是尊重的。尊重這樣提出來這樣一種方向。那我可不可以請我們黃次長那針對這個部分我們法務部的這個看法勒?\n條文修正草案案 刑事訴訟法\n如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下,我們法務部跟司法院應該都同意用這個電子筆記來做這個備載的方式,應該這個工具可以認同嗎?各位報告,我還是強調那句話,個案上他因為因為那個科技設備他本身有沒有夾帶了其他的輪流功能,夾關他必須個案去判斷。所以這邊我們不能夠通案性的說電子設備可以或不可以。\n我剛剛強調的就是在規範清楚的狀況之下就誠如剛剛次長您說的我們相關設備如果經過認定說它這個可以它只是一個簡單的一個電子的這個筆記的功能的話我們應該是可以認同嗎?對,如果個案講到這樣子判斷的話理論上是可以的好,謝謝我們民主黨跟次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.657 --> 00:18.946\n好謝謝主席我們請吳秘書長麻煩秘書長秘書長早\n\n00:24.847 --> 00:47.620\n委員好今天我們要併案審查有關這個刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文那其中三黨的黨團或委員各別有提出對於科技偵查訂定的專章的這個草案那也誠如我們在上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到究竟是要訂定一個專法\n\n00:48.741 --> 01:03.214\n還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容。這也是接下來草野協商對於所要採取的這個法律去進行抉擇。那也有看到其他委員提出質疑認為我們司法院應該要拿出更積極的這個作為。\n\n01:04.815 --> 01:28.016\n如果相同內容能夠定在刑事訴訟法當中則應該不須再另訂專法。那也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見攸關未來實務上的運作。那在此我想請教秘書長司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法還是相關的考量的理由是不是可以請秘書長來做簡單的說明一下。\n\n01:30.936 --> 01:53.562\n像委員說明那麼司法院是認為以專法來規定比較適合因為行政院版的這個草案也已經經過多方的討論有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎\n\n01:56.909 --> 02:22.628\n因為這個科技偵查手段可能持續在增加所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣那麼便宜來統一規範能夠來迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有收集證據的需要那假如說要放在那個刑事訴訟法那可能還要再\n\n02:25.450 --> 02:50.279\n在整體盤點那個刑事訴訟法本身好沒關係民眾黨你們就是傾向就是制定專法那這我們也尊重那我想我們司法院跟這個法務部在修法的過程裡面應該也經過充分的這個溝通跟討論那但是在這個科技偵查的實務上還是要有檢調在調查案件的這個時候來發動\n\n02:53.880 --> 03:18.089\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n03:19.850 --> 03:24.896\n草案對於法官保留和審查的這個機制是否都已經非常的周全了?\n\n03:26.042 --> 03:52.210\n因為現在在這個科診法草案所規定的三種類型那不管在這個人的定位追蹤還有M化車的這個行動通信的設備的這個追蹤定位以及藉由這個隱私空間內的人物的監錄那這些都有採取法官保留事件來審查\n\n03:53.030 --> 04:16.702\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條\n\n04:18.223 --> 04:43.180\n那這些包括所使用的科技方法還有使用該科技方法調查得取的這些標的那這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載所以就整體來講這個專法的草案所採的法官保留的範圍還有這個審查機制就人民的飲食錢已經非常周全了嗎?\n\n04:43.800 --> 04:59.422\n就應該算足夠了啦。應該算足夠。當然還要再做某部分的加強。那是初步是認為已經足夠了啦。已經足夠了。初步就已經認定足夠了。已經有足夠了。\n\n05:00.003 --> 05:24.700\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n05:30.844 --> 05:34.829\n這個科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能。」\n\n05:35.678 --> 05:59.813\n因為在這個草案這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留那麼並且在這個核發許可書的時候對主刑人員方面也為必要的指示除外這個在草案中也規範有事後通知的這樣的一種程序事後救濟制度這些也都有規範還有這個\n\n06:02.254 --> 06:08.162\n資料保管消費機制可以說是可以來降低會不會被濫用?那個秘書長會不會被濫用?\n\n06:11.596 --> 06:33.931\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n06:35.232 --> 06:57.072\n懲罰犯罪最重要的角色不論是最後協商的結果是要訂定這個專法還是修訂專章那我想當務之急還是要盡快在各版本的這個條文內容上去取得一個共識那並且讓修法競速來完成給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器才是一個重點\n\n06:57.813 --> 07:11.631\n三條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n\n07:12.605 --> 07:27.877\n五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四\n\n07:28.658 --> 07:52.658\n那我們也看到司法院還有行政院還有委員們對此都有提出修正的版本那我想就一個可能發生的這個狀況來請教秘書長那今天假設律師在徵訊做筆記但檢察官還是不允許也就是說他當下沒有得到這個筆記的權利那在救濟之後應該要如何來處理\n\n07:56.050 --> 08:20.288\n這一次在司法院、行政院後來有共識提出來的議案裡面就這些有增訂241條之一,假如禁止或限制處分的一個救濟這些有增訂在第245條之一有做一個如何救濟的方式\n\n08:22.284 --> 08:37.792\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n08:38.252 --> 08:58.155\n希望能夠保障辯護人筆記權的同時也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄我想這應該也是符合現代的這個工作習慣所提出的這個修正方案因為現在的這個工作實務上做筆記也應該不僅限制於紙筆\n\n08:59.276 --> 09:24.913\n在電子設備上若有妥善的規範是否也可以歸納為我們未來筆記輔助筆記的一個工作的一個工具。這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到我們司法院是尊重的。尊重這樣提出來這樣一種方向。那我可不可以請我們黃次長那針對這個部分我們法務部的這個看法勒?\n\n09:25.213 --> 09:25.994\n條文修正草案案刑事訴訟法\n\n09:56.154 --> 10:19.069\n如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下,我們法務部跟司法院應該都同意用這個電子筆記來做這個備載的方式,應該這個工具可以認同嗎?各位報告,我還是強調那句話,個案上他因為因為那個科技設備他本身有沒有夾帶了其他的輪流功能,夾關他必須個案去判斷。所以這邊我們不能夠通案性的說電子設備可以或不可以。\n\n10:20.770 --> 10:39.708\n我剛剛強調的就是在規範清楚的狀況之下就誠如剛剛次長您說的我們相關設備如果經過認定說它這個可以它只是一個簡單的一個電子的這個筆記的功能的話我們應該是可以認同嗎?對,如果個案講到這樣子判斷的話理論上是可以的好,謝謝我們民主黨跟次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.657,"end":18.946,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請吳秘書長麻煩秘書長秘書長早"},{"start":24.847,"end":47.62,"text":"委員好今天我們要併案審查有關這個刑事訴訟法的部分修正條文那其中三黨的黨團或委員各別有提出對於科技偵查訂定的專章的這個草案那也誠如我們在上週審查科技偵查與保障法時所討論到究竟是要訂定一個專法"},{"start":48.741,"end":63.214,"text":"還是要修訂專章來規範科技偵查的內容。這也是接下來草野協商對於所要採取的這個法律去進行抉擇。那也有看到其他委員提出質疑認為我們司法院應該要拿出更積極的這個作為。"},{"start":64.815,"end":88.016,"text":"如果相同內容能夠定在刑事訴訟法當中則應該不須再另訂專法。那也因為司法院這邊是代表法院和法官的意見攸關未來實務上的運作。那在此我想請教秘書長司法院目前的立場是偏向另訂專法還是相關的考量的理由是不是可以請秘書長來做簡單的說明一下。"},{"start":90.936,"end":113.562,"text":"像委員說明那麼司法院是認為以專法來規定比較適合因為行政院版的這個草案也已經經過多方的討論有排除部分比較爭議性的偵查手段所以是建議用專法來討論作為基礎"},{"start":116.909,"end":142.628,"text":"因為這個科技偵查手段可能持續在增加所以放在專法就類似通保法一樣那麼便宜來統一規範能夠來迅速回應偵查機關偵查犯罪還有收集證據的需要那假如說要放在那個刑事訴訟法那可能還要再"},{"start":145.45,"end":170.279,"text":"在整體盤點那個刑事訴訟法本身好沒關係民眾黨你們就是傾向就是制定專法那這我們也尊重那我想我們司法院跟這個法務部在修法的過程裡面應該也經過充分的這個溝通跟討論那但是在這個科技偵查的實務上還是要有檢調在調查案件的這個時候來發動"},{"start":173.88,"end":198.089,"text":"三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":199.85,"end":204.896,"text":"草案對於法官保留和審查的這個機制是否都已經非常的周全了?"},{"start":206.042,"end":232.21,"text":"因為現在在這個科診法草案所規定的三種類型那不管在這個人的定位追蹤還有M化車的這個行動通信的設備的這個追蹤定位以及藉由這個隱私空間內的人物的監錄那這些都有採取法官保留事件來審查"},{"start":233.03,"end":256.702,"text":"四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條之一、第二百五條"},{"start":258.223,"end":283.18,"text":"那這些包括所使用的科技方法還有使用該科技方法調查得取的這些標的那這些在申請書裡面都要詳細記載所以就整體來講這個專法的草案所採的法官保留的範圍還有這個審查機制就人民的飲食錢已經非常周全了嗎?"},{"start":283.8,"end":299.422,"text":"就應該算足夠了啦。應該算足夠。當然還要再做某部分的加強。那是初步是認為已經足夠了啦。已經足夠了。初步就已經認定足夠了。已經有足夠了。"},{"start":300.003,"end":324.7,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":330.844,"end":334.829,"text":"這個科技偵查對於人權侵犯或是不當濫用的可能。」"},{"start":335.678,"end":359.813,"text":"因為在這個草案這個專法草案就各類型已經有採取法官保留那麼並且在這個核發許可書的時候對主刑人員方面也為必要的指示除外這個在草案中也規範有事後通知的這樣的一種程序事後救濟制度這些也都有規範還有這個"},{"start":362.254,"end":368.162,"text":"資料保管消費機制可以說是可以來降低會不會被濫用?那個秘書長會不會被濫用?"},{"start":371.596,"end":393.931,"text":"三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":395.232,"end":417.072,"text":"懲罰犯罪最重要的角色不論是最後協商的結果是要訂定這個專法還是修訂專章那我想當務之急還是要盡快在各版本的這個條文內容上去取得一個共識那並且讓修法競速來完成給予偵查單位有效打擊犯罪的一個武器才是一個重點"},{"start":417.813,"end":431.631,"text":"三條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四"},{"start":432.605,"end":447.877,"text":"五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四"},{"start":448.658,"end":472.658,"text":"那我們也看到司法院還有行政院還有委員們對此都有提出修正的版本那我想就一個可能發生的這個狀況來請教秘書長那今天假設律師在徵訊做筆記但檢察官還是不允許也就是說他當下沒有得到這個筆記的權利那在救濟之後應該要如何來處理"},{"start":476.05,"end":500.288,"text":"這一次在司法院、行政院後來有共識提出來的議案裡面就這些有增訂241條之一,假如禁止或限制處分的一個救濟這些有增訂在第245條之一有做一個如何救濟的方式"},{"start":502.284,"end":517.792,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":518.252,"end":538.155,"text":"希望能夠保障辯護人筆記權的同時也能夠考慮到因為科技日新月異得以用其他電子設備來輔助記錄我想這應該也是符合現代的這個工作習慣所提出的這個修正方案因為現在的這個工作實務上做筆記也應該不僅限制於紙筆"},{"start":539.276,"end":564.913,"text":"在電子設備上若有妥善的規範是否也可以歸納為我們未來筆記輔助筆記的一個工作的一個工具。這一部分我們在書面說明也有提到我們司法院是尊重的。尊重這樣提出來這樣一種方向。那我可不可以請我們黃次長那針對這個部分我們法務部的這個看法勒?"},{"start":565.213,"end":565.994,"text":"條文修正草案案 刑事訴訟法"},{"start":596.154,"end":619.069,"text":"如果在我們規範清楚的狀況之下,我們法務部跟司法院應該都同意用這個電子筆記來做這個備載的方式,應該這個工具可以認同嗎?各位報告,我還是強調那句話,個案上他因為因為那個科技設備他本身有沒有夾帶了其他的輪流功能,夾關他必須個案去判斷。所以這邊我們不能夠通案性的說電子設備可以或不可以。"},{"start":620.77,"end":639.708,"text":"我剛剛強調的就是在規範清楚的狀況之下就誠如剛剛次長您說的我們相關設備如果經過認定說它這個可以它只是一個簡單的一個電子的這個筆記的功能的話我們應該是可以認同嗎?對,如果個案講到這樣子判斷的話理論上是可以的好,謝謝我們民主黨跟次長"}]}}}}