{"id":153826,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153826","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd819f1dcbe9657ae08980fec08313b105ec0a04e565a7cce14efbf58e434f61d1a005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"10:25:05 - 10:37:26","影片長度":"00:12:21","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化AI生態系及充實AI人才與產業AI化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧未來」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及6月13日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:25:05+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:37:26+08:00","duration":741,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":462,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時25分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請郭部長。郭部長好。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛在主委跟您的報告當中，我們聽到了幾點重點。主委說，沒有臺灣很難看到世界，因為我們臺灣占有關鍵的位置，這個非常nice，但是他也提到世界人才荒的問題。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我也很歡喜，在你的報告當中，你首先提出人才培育的問題。在討論人才培育的問題之前，我們上次有說過，電力等於國力，你也認同這樣的論點，所以本席要告訴你，在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候，我們在立法院裡頭通過了，也就是當3月份電價審議委員會決定4月1號開始漲價的時候，我們立即提出凍漲案。也就是人民在這段時間非常的辛苦，所以9月份，因為一年要開兩次審議會，9月份電價不能再漲，要凍漲。今天我很高興地看到經濟日報報導「卓揆暗示9月不漲電價」，請教部長，卓揆聽到了民眾的聲音，您聽到了嗎？是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行？請做說明。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我經濟部就是尊重院的指示。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院的指示？所以卓揆暗示9月不漲電價，就是凍漲，就是這個方向嘛，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我還沒有得到院長直接的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有看到經濟日報嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有看。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有看？我現在秀給你看。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你好好看，你看報導有這麼大一篇，那是不是會朝這個方向呢？立法院大會也已經通過了，也建議給行政部門。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們回去以後會請示院長，他是不是朝這樣的方向，如果是這個方向，我們就按照這個方向來做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們也希望能夠得到好的方向，就是9月凍漲，不漲電價，大家一起來照顧我們的民生，照顧我們的產業。你頻頻點頭，我們就繼續來討論。大家都清楚，你宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師，來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧製造。依照你的規劃，你必須要結盟產業公協會、國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構，協力建構產業AI課程，輔導企業導入AI應用。今天教育部次長也在現場。也就是怎麼樣橫向部會合作以提升製造業AI應用普及率至少50%，這是您所提出的。所以本席要請教，這是一個非常對的方向，但是這是一個大工程，我們希望不是只有口號，而是能夠真正落實，所以，請教部長，4年培育20萬名AI的人才，你預估有多少是我們的國人？"],["郭部長智輝：大部分都是我們的國人。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：大部分都是我們的國人？"],["郭部長智輝：我想剛才劉主委講的部分是跟教育部在談的，就是最高階的、在做模型的工程師，這部分會從外部引進我想大概兩、三千人，但是我要訓練的是實作的，在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師，所以這一部分，我想大部分都是我們國人，也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我們自己中華民國的國人，我們一起努力。本席給你一個功課，因為國發會也在場，教育部也在場，應該要針對我國這些AI人才做一個橫向前瞻性的完整計畫，我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫好，也給本席一份書面資料。","接下來我們還是來講電的問題，微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲主導的，他在美國興建的第四代核電廠開工，他表示這是美國朝著安全、豐富以及零碳能源的重要一大步。零碳能源，這個非常重要，所以這一項工作成功之後，對於美國未來國家的整體競爭力非常的重要。那麼要請教郭部長，您認同這樣的說法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：國外正在發展的新的技術，我們都有在觀察，也都在留意。因為他現在還在做一些實驗，還不是完全做商業運轉，所以我們還沒有辦法看到他基本所訴求的安全、沒有核廢料……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是。如果朝著比爾蓋茲所說的這個方向？對。"],["郭部長智輝：如果是這樣的話，我們當然會來討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會來參考？"],["郭部長智輝：會來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：豐富、安全還有零碳的這個能源？"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是大家都希望的，所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌。","主席，我也要請國發會主委。","主委，比爾蓋茲針對第四代核電廠開工所提出的論點，剛剛郭部長說，如果是這個方向，你們會來參考，那您的立場呢？你的看法呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：報告委員，我大概有一點瞭解，它現在是用鈉取代過去的水，它的輻射量會低一些，但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒，所以它的安全性還有待觀察。它現在是先動土，還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照，所以，我們還要持續觀察它的結果才能定論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，這個回答非常好，我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界接軌，因為全球都在搶人才，全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注，我們必須要好好的去了解。因為電力等於國力，沒有電力，什麼都不用講了，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在這樣的情況之下，我要繼續請問郭部長。部長，台電公司的財務問題也是我一直關心的，上一次本席請教的時候，您說了一句話，你說你不支持以公務預算來支應，但是目前的情況會讓我們嚇一跳。在這種情況下，本席要請教，目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊，你買的電不夠，你要買的是5.09塊，你買了風力發電的綠能，一度電多少？一度電多少？open book已經在上面，你自己看，我已經給你open book了。風力綠電多少？你買了多少？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在風力發電，報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：6.8塊。所以在這樣的情況之下，台電的財務如果不解決，它一直虧損，你沒有辦法穩定供電，這要怎麼辦？所以您跟我有約定兩件事情：第一個，在這個會期結束前，你會公布包括AI加入的電力需求量；第二個，台電財務的問題要怎麼處理。你都還是會在這個會期結束前，告訴我們國人嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就拭目以待，請你好好來做。部長請回。最後，我要請教國發會，主委，國科會的吳主委說了，他說臺灣廠商如果不走出去，就是面臨嚴重的五缺，缺工、缺地、缺資源等等，這是吳主委說的，但是剛剛郭部長說他要培育20萬人，他也認為我們的電沒問題，當然不包括AI的部分，AI的部分還要再統計。所以本席要請教國發會主委，臺灣廠商如果不走出去，是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題？請教。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員。我輔導過很多廠商走出去，廠商出走的主要目的是前進國際市場，然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求。這是整個國際的趨勢，也是臺灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請回答本席的提問，如果我們的廠商不出走，我們國內會面臨缺工、缺地、缺資源嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來看，我認為臺灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以會缺嘛，所以你也認同國科會吳主委的說法？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：只有土地，因為我們現在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你認同他的一部分說法，好，接下來我要告訴你，他講的是真的，你們不要粉飾太平，要面對問題去解決問題，因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說，申請的人數，請看本席的資料，給你open book，它是往下降的，案件也在減少。AI的A世代半導體前瞻半導體及量子技術研發計畫裡頭，110年申請的是376人，111年是201人，112年是138人，今年剩下25人，所以你們的橫向必須要去看，它那一邊已經短絀那麼多了，而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發計畫、次世代化合物半導體研發計畫，申請的人數一直在遞減，今年剩下多少？30人。主委，本席給你這個數字，在國科會的數量是如此，心驚驚啦！真的會怕，你不缺人嗎？本席有疑慮、有疑慮，所以我希望的是，我們要如何去協助推動產業，部會的橫向聯繫非常重要，好不好？因為我們要去面對這個問題，一個國科會主委已經告訴你，如果不出走會怎麼樣了，到時候臺灣怎麼辦、臺灣怎麼辦？所以本席非常希望，因為這是一個大功課，也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻，就誠如你所說的，沒有臺灣看不到全世界，我們很高興的是，我們的人才都在臺灣產生，在全世界發揚光大，我們更要實際去面對問題，而橫向的部分，政府有這個職責，必須要協助產業，這是本席給你的功課，請你去把它整理好、去把它整理好，我們缺的要怎麼樣去應對？這是我們必要做的，好不好？你把它整理好，提供書面資料給本席，好嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我會跟國科會討論一下。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉主委，請回座。"],["主席（楊委員瓊瓔）：謝謝，接下來我們請謝衣鳯委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"書\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 735.15, \"end\": 735.17, \"score\": 0.01}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:21,448 --> 00:00:24,593\n請楊瓊妍議員謝謝主席楊瓊妍發言首先邀請郭部長\n\n2\n00:00:32,919 --> 00:00:54,216\n國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題\n\n3\n00:00:55,457 --> 00:01:19,904\n所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了\n\n4\n00:01:20,504 --> 00:01:46,317\n也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓魁暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓魁聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎\n\n5\n00:01:51,113 --> 00:02:19,887\n是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片\n\n6\n00:02:21,018 --> 00:02:28,218\n那是不是會朝這個方向呢立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門\n\n7\n00:02:29,608 --> 00:02:48,124\n報告委員這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個\n\n8\n00:02:51,807 --> 00:03:06,194\n大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會\n\n9\n00:03:08,675 --> 00:03:14,798\n國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程\n\n10\n00:03:37,768 --> 00:04:05,468\n我們希望不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人\n\n11\n00:04:06,329 --> 00:04:18,223\n但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人\n\n12\n00:04:22,668 --> 00:04:34,016\n好20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本席給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些\n\n13\n00:04:38,198 --> 00:04:49,441\nAI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者\n\n14\n00:05:07,705 --> 00:05:24,662\n安全、豐富以及零碳能源所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長您認同這樣的說法嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:30,972 --> 00:05:48,099\n這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、會來討論\n\n16\n00:05:56,752 --> 00:06:25,601\n安全還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢?\n\n17\n00:06:27,719 --> 00:06:48,054\n報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論\n\n18\n00:06:48,234 --> 00:07:05,115\n好這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力\n\n19\n00:07:06,932 --> 00:07:21,283\n電力等於國力沒有電力什麼都不用講了對不對好所以在這樣的一個情況之下我繼續要來請問那個郭部長部長台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的\n\n20\n00:07:21,983 --> 00:07:45,921\n您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少\n\n21\n00:07:48,973 --> 00:07:53,356\nOpenBook已經在上面你自己看我已經給你OpenBook了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電\n\n22\n00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:38,990\n這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會\n\n23\n00:08:53,707 --> 00:09:06,611\n國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的\n\n24\n00:09:07,674 --> 00:09:30,468\n但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教\n\n25\n00:09:34,194 --> 00:09:57,191\n謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎\n\n26\n00:09:59,059 --> 00:10:18,174\n目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎?所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題\n\n27\n00:10:20,316 --> 00:10:27,018\n因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本席的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A世代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子\n\n28\n00:10:39,522 --> 00:10:44,045\n這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376人111年是201人112年是138人今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看\n\n29\n00:10:55,231 --> 00:11:08,326\n他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少30人\n\n30\n00:11:10,598 --> 00:11:36,509\n主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚啊真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦\n\n31\n00:11:39,170 --> 00:11:47,456\n台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好\n\n32\n00:12:06,826 --> 00:12:15,170\n去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好謝謝劉書偉請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21448\t24593\t請楊瓊妍議員謝謝主席 楊瓊妍發言首先邀請郭部長\n32919\t54216\t國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題\n55457\t79904\t所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了\n80504\t106317\t也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓魁暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓魁聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎\n111113\t139887\t是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片\n141018\t148218\t那是不是會朝這個方向呢立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門\n149608\t168124\t報告委員 這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好 我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲 不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好 你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個\n171807\t186194\t大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會\n188675\t194798\t國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程\n217768\t245468\t我們希望不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人\n246329\t258223\t但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人\n262668\t274016\t好 20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本席給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些\n278198\t289441\tAI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者\n307705\t324662\t安全、豐富以及零碳能源所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長您認同這樣的說法嗎?\n330972\t348099\t這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、會來討論\n356752\t385601\t安全還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢?\n387719\t408054\t報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論\n408234\t425115\t好 這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力\n426932\t441283\t電力等於國力沒有電力什麼都不用講了對不對好 所以在這樣的一個情況之下我繼續要來請問那個郭部長部長 台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的\n441983\t465921\t您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少\n468973\t473356\tOpen Book已經在上面你自己看我已經給你Open Book了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電\n493860\t518990\t這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會\n533707\t546611\t國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的\n547674\t570468\t但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教\n574194\t597191\t謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎\n599059\t618174\t目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎?所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題\n620316\t627018\t因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本席的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A世代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子\n639522\t644045\t這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376人111年是201人112年是138人今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看\n655231\t668326\t他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫 申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少 30人\n670598\t696509\t主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚啊真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦\n699170\t707456\t台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好\n726826\t735170\t去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好 謝謝劉書偉請回\n","txt":"請楊瓊妍議員謝謝主席 楊瓊妍發言首先邀請郭部長\n國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題\n所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了\n也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓魁暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓魁聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎\n是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片\n那是不是會朝這個方向呢立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門\n報告委員 這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好 我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲 不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好 你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個\n大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會\n國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程\n我們希望不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人\n但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人\n好 20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本席給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些\nAI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者\n安全、豐富以及零碳能源所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長您認同這樣的說法嗎?\n這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、會來討論\n安全還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢?\n報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論\n好 這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力\n電力等於國力沒有電力什麼都不用講了對不對好 所以在這樣的一個情況之下我繼續要來請問那個郭部長部長 台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的\n您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少\nOpen Book已經在上面你自己看我已經給你Open Book了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電\n這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會\n國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的\n但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教\n謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎\n目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎?所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題\n因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本席的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A世代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子\n這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376人111年是201人112年是138人今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看\n他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫 申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少 30人\n主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚啊真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦\n台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好\n去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好 謝謝劉書偉請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.448 --> 00:24.593\n請楊瓊妍議員謝謝主席楊瓊妍發言首先邀請郭部長\n\n00:32.919 --> 00:54.216\n國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題\n\n00:55.457 --> 01:19.904\n所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了\n\n01:20.504 --> 01:46.317\n也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓魁暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓魁聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎\n\n01:51.113 --> 02:19.887\n是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片\n\n02:21.018 --> 02:28.218\n那是不是會朝這個方向呢立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門\n\n02:29.608 --> 02:48.124\n報告委員這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個\n\n02:51.807 --> 03:06.194\n大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會\n\n03:08.675 --> 03:14.798\n國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程\n\n03:37.768 --> 04:05.468\n我們希望不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人\n\n04:06.329 --> 04:18.223\n但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人\n\n04:22.668 --> 04:34.016\n好20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本席給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些\n\n04:38.198 --> 04:49.441\nAI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者\n\n05:07.705 --> 05:24.662\n安全、豐富以及零碳能源所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長您認同這樣的說法嗎?\n\n05:30.972 --> 05:48.099\n這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、會來討論\n\n05:56.752 --> 06:25.601\n安全還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢?\n\n06:27.719 --> 06:48.054\n報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論\n\n06:48.234 --> 07:05.115\n好這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力\n\n07:06.932 --> 07:21.283\n電力等於國力沒有電力什麼都不用講了對不對好所以在這樣的一個情況之下我繼續要來請問那個郭部長部長台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的\n\n07:21.983 --> 07:45.921\n您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少\n\n07:48.973 --> 07:53.356\nOpenBook已經在上面你自己看我已經給你OpenBook了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電\n\n08:13.860 --> 08:38.990\n這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會\n\n08:53.707 --> 09:06.611\n國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的\n\n09:07.674 --> 09:30.468\n但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教\n\n09:34.194 --> 09:57.191\n謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎\n\n09:59.059 --> 10:18.174\n目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎?所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題\n\n10:20.316 --> 10:27.018\n因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本席的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A世代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子\n\n10:39.522 --> 10:44.045\n這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376人111年是201人112年是138人今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看\n\n10:55.231 --> 11:08.326\n他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少30人\n\n11:10.598 --> 11:36.509\n主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚啊真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦\n\n11:39.170 --> 11:47.456\n台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好\n\n12:06.826 --> 12:15.170\n去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好謝謝劉書偉請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.448,"end":24.593,"text":"請楊瓊妍議員謝謝主席 楊瓊妍發言首先邀請郭部長"},{"start":32.919,"end":54.216,"text":"國務部長好在主委跟您的報告當中我們聽到了幾點重點這個主委說他說沒有台灣很難看到世界因為我們台灣佔有關鍵的位置這個非常nice但是他也提到世界人才荒的這個問題"},{"start":55.457,"end":79.904,"text":"所以我也歡喜在你的報告當中你首先會提出人才培育的問題在人才培育的問題之前我們上次有說過這個電力等於國力你也認同這樣子的一個論點所以本期呢要告訴你在你還沒有擔任經濟部長的時候那我們在立法院大院裡頭通過了"},{"start":80.504,"end":106.317,"text":"也就是當3月份電價委員會審議的時候4月1號開始漲價漲價之餘呢我們立即提出也就是人民在這個時間非常的辛苦所以9月份因為一年要開兩次會9月份不能再漲要動漲今天我很高興的看到經濟報呢寫了卓魁暗示9月不漲電價請教部長卓魁聽到了民眾的聲音您聽到了嗎"},{"start":111.113,"end":139.887,"text":"是不是9月我們會朝這個方向來進行請做說明報告委員我經濟部就是尊重這個院的這個指示啦院的指示所以昨回暗示9月部長店家就是動長就這個方向嘛是嗎我還沒有得到這個院長的這個直接的你看到經濟報吧我沒有看你沒有看啊我現在秀給你看謝謝你趕快看你看這麼大一片"},{"start":141.018,"end":148.218,"text":"那是不是會朝這個方向呢立法院大會也已經通過了也建議給行政部門"},{"start":149.608,"end":168.124,"text":"報告委員 這個我們回去以後會請示院長那它是不是這樣的一個方向如果是這個方向我們就按照這個方向來做好 我們也希望能夠得到好的方向就是九月動漲 不漲電價大家一起來照顧我們的民生照顧我們的產業好 你拼命地點頭我們就繼續來討論這一個"},{"start":171.807,"end":186.194,"text":"大家要清楚你提出宣示2028年要培育20萬名AI的應用工程師來協助我們整個中小產業導入AI智慧跟製造那依照你的規劃你必須要結盟產業工協會"},{"start":188.675,"end":194.798,"text":"國際大廠、學校、職業訓練等機構來協助產業AI的課程﹐輔導企業導入AI的應用所以今天教育部也在現場市長也在現場也就是怎麼樣橫向的部會提升製造AI應用普及這個50%至少50%這是您所提出的所以本期要請教這是一個非常對的方向但是是一個大工程"},{"start":217.768,"end":245.468,"text":"我們希望不是只有口號而是真正能夠落實所以請教部長四年培育的20萬名AI的人才你預估有多少是我們的國人是我們的國人大部分都是我們國人大部分都是我們國人我想這個劉主委他在講的部分是跟那個教育部在談的就是這個最高階的在做這個模型的這個工程師這個部分大概從外部進來大概我想大概兩三千人"},{"start":246.329,"end":258.223,"text":"但是我要訓練的是實作的在現場操作的工程師跟微調設計的工程師所以這一部分我想大部分都是我們國人也就是20萬裡面我想應該有18萬都是國人"},{"start":262.668,"end":274.016,"text":"好 20萬名你要訓練的有18萬名是我國我們自己中華民國的國人我們一起努力所以本席給你一個功課因為國防部也在這邊教育部也在這邊應該要將我國的這一些"},{"start":278.198,"end":289.441,"text":"AI的人才必須要做一個橫向前瞻性的一個完整的計劃我也希望你們橫向組織聯繫也一份書面資料給本席那接下來我們還是來講電的問題微軟的創辦人比爾蓋茲他主導的他在美國建了這個第四代的核電廠開工他也表示這是美國潮者"},{"start":307.705,"end":324.662,"text":"安全、豐富以及零碳能源所以這一項工作成功之後對於美國未來的國家整個的競爭力是非常的重要請教郭部長您認同這樣的說法嗎?"},{"start":330.972,"end":348.099,"text":"這個國外的新的技術我們都有在觀察有在留意因為它現在還是在做一些實驗還不是完全做商業運轉所以我們還沒有辦法看到它的基本所需求的安全、核廢料如果是這個樣子的話我們當然會再討論會來參考、會來討論"},{"start":356.752,"end":385.601,"text":"安全還有零碳的這個能源這個是大家都希望的嘛所以我們也希望能夠跟世界來接軌主席我也請我們國防委主委主委對於比爾蓋茲所提出的這樣子的第四代核電廠的一個開工他的論點剛剛郭部長說如果是這個方向你們會來參考那您的立場呢?你的看法呢?"},{"start":387.719,"end":408.054,"text":"報委員我大概有一點瞭解他現在是用鈉然後取代過去的水他的輻射量會低一些但是因為鈉碰到空氣會燃燒所以他的安全性還有待觀察那他現在是先凍土還沒有辦法到進一步的核准執照所以我們還要持續觀察他的結果才能定論"},{"start":408.234,"end":425.115,"text":"好 這個回答非常好也就是我們各個部門都必須要能夠跟世界來接軌因為全球都在搶人才全球也都對於整個電力給予高度的關注我們必須要好好的去了解因為國力"},{"start":426.932,"end":441.283,"text":"電力等於國力沒有電力什麼都不用講了對不對好 所以在這樣的一個情況之下我繼續要來請問那個郭部長部長 台電公司的財務問題也是一直我關心的"},{"start":441.983,"end":465.921,"text":"您在上一次本席請教的時候您說了一句話你說你不支持以公務預算來指引但是目前情況會讓我們嚇一跳所以在這種情況之下呢本席要來請教目前我們自產的一度電2.3塊你買的電不夠你要買的是5.09塊你買了綠能風力發電的一度電多少一度電多少"},{"start":468.973,"end":473.356,"text":"Open Book已經在上面你自己看我已經給你Open Book了鋒利綠電多少?你買了多少?6.8塊所以在這樣情況之下台電的財務如果不解決它一直虧損你沒有辦法穩定供電"},{"start":493.86,"end":518.99,"text":"這怎麼辦所以您跟我有約定兩件事情第一個在這個會期結束前你會公布包括AI所加入的電力的需求量第二個台電財務的問題要怎麼處理你都還是會在這個會期結束前會告訴我們國人嗎是的是的所以我們就拭目以待好好來做那最後我請國發會"},{"start":533.707,"end":546.611,"text":"國科會的主委吳主委他說了他說台灣廠商如果不走出去就是面臨嚴重的五缺缺工缺地缺資源等等這是吳主委所說的"},{"start":547.674,"end":570.468,"text":"但是在剛剛郭部長所說的他要培育20萬人他也認為我們的電沒問題當然不包括AI的部分還要再統計所以本期要請教國科會主委台灣廠商如果真的不走出去是不是真的會面臨到缺工、缺地、缺資源的問題請教"},{"start":574.194,"end":597.191,"text":"謝謝委員我輔導過很多廠商走出去他主要的目的主要是前進國際市場然後加入整個國際供應鏈的需求那這整個國際的趨勢那也是台灣要進入一個日不落帝國的一個請回答本席的提問如果我們的廠商不出走我們會面臨在國內的缺工缺地缺資源嗎"},{"start":599.059,"end":618.174,"text":"目前來看我認為台灣比較辛苦的會是土地面積的問題社會缺嗎?所以你也認同國會會吳主委的說法只有土地因為我們現在你認同他的一部分好一部分接下來我要告訴你他講的是真的你們不要粉飾太平要面對問題去解決問題"},{"start":620.316,"end":627.018,"text":"因為在我們的國科會半導體晶片研發的績效來說他申請的人數你看本席的資料OpenBook給你他是往下降的案件也在減少AI的這個A世代的半導體前瞻半導體及量子"},{"start":639.522,"end":644.045,"text":"這個技術研究的計畫裡頭110年申請的是376人111年是201人112年是138人今年剩下25人所以你們的橫向必須要去看"},{"start":655.231,"end":668.326,"text":"他那一邊已經短出那麼多了而且我們看到新興晶片設計研發的計畫跟次世代核物半導體的研發計畫 申請的人數一直在低減今年剩下多少 30人"},{"start":670.598,"end":696.509,"text":"主委本席給你這個數字在國科會的數量是如此心驚驚啊真的會怕你不缺人嗎本席有疑慮有疑慮所以我希望的我們要如何的去協助推動產業橫向的聯繫不會非常的重要好不好因為我們要去面對這個問題一個國會委員會主委已經告訴你如果不出走會怎麼樣了那到時候台灣怎麼辦"},{"start":699.17,"end":707.456,"text":"台灣怎麼辦?所以本席非常的希望因為這是一個大功課也是一個人類改變的關鍵時刻就誠如你所說的沒有台灣看不到全世界我們很高興的我們的人才都在台灣產生在全世界發揚光大我們更要實際去面對問題橫向政府有這個職責必須要協助產業這是本席給你的功課請你去把它整理好"},{"start":726.826,"end":735.17,"text":"去把它整理好我們該缺的要怎麼樣去應對這是我們必要做的好不好你把它整理好順便資料給本席好嗎我會跟國科會討論一下謝謝好 謝謝劉書偉請回"}]}}}}