{"id":153828,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153828","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd819d5ccd90c181edc4a182e407f268492bca04e565a7cce14ef06c20c6f6eca227a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"10:29:18 - 10:41:57","影片長度":"00:12:39","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、法務部、內政部警政署就「《洗錢防制法》修正草案與《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》之制定對於防制虛擬資產及交易業務事業（VASP）淪為詐騙工具」、金融監督管理委員會就「虛擬資產專法制定進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:29:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T10:41:57+08:00","duration":759,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":434,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時29分）謝謝主席，有請彭金隆主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好！"],["郭委員國文：主委好。主委，剛剛我聽您回答李彥秀委員的答復，有關於新光金前董事長吳東進的部分，今天早上最新的消息，他是以1億元交保。本席不是要問你案情，我想你對個案不評論我尊重，但是事件總有前因後果，因為之前金管會有處罰過，然後這一次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送嘛，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：好，那本席就要請教啦！就這件事情當中，我想請問一下，到底爆發這件事情，有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料，一來，可能會加速新新合併的作用；二來呢，也有可能達到延緩增資的效果。雖然剛剛你說不同的法律面，本席同意，但是事件就是有前因後果、就會有連帶的影響關係，就這兩個可能性，主委，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個案子我就第一個問題先回答委員，就是這個案子的成因，我想在過去金融檢查是我們滿例行性的活動，檢查完畢以後呢，我們就會根據這個檢查的意見，比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分，因為金管會行政機關主政……"],["郭委員國文：金檢後就請教駐會檢察官。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，他們認為有繼續的話，我們就移送……"],["郭委員國文：該移送就移送。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，當然他們會有他們檢調一定的時間，至於什麼時候發動，這個金管會完全沒有辦法過問，我想這件事情在時程上面，我們是沒辦法去……"],["郭委員國文：類似的案子你手中還有幾個？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這部分的話，我們可以請檢查局局長來回答。"],["郭委員國文：檢查局張局長待會兒stand by一下，那這兩件事情的後果？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想過去新光金也好，台新金也好，針對這兩家合併，媒體上對他們的動作也有做一些發布，大家當然會有很多臆測，我想我作為一個金管會主委，我不會去臆測這之間的關聯性，但是我們都會密切注意……"],["郭委員國文：增資有沒有可能延緩？本席直接問。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個增資計畫剛才局長已經說明過，我們正在審核。"],["郭委員國文：就是照常進行不會延緩？"],["彭主任委員金隆：按照程序……"],["郭委員國文：不會受到此事件的影響？合併會不會加速？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這是兩回事。合併的話，我們有一定的程序，就是比如說，我們合併的方法有很多種，法律上很多的架構上，它要一定的程序跟申請的過程。"],["郭委員國文：所以一切按照行政程序處理，不會受到影響？"],["彭主任委員金隆：就依法行政的角度來講的話，我們會考慮各種各種的因素，但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整。"],["郭委員國文：好，那你稍坐休息，張子浩局長，你手頭上還有多少案子？目前。"],["張局長子浩：我們洽駐會檢察官移送之後，其實我手上現在沒有資料，我也沒有特別去……"],["郭委員國文：沒有，我說你手頭上還有沒有類似這種案子？"],["張局長子浩：要去洽駐會檢察官的目前是沒有。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，好，請回。謝謝！主委，另外同樣一個案件，我就就教於您，今年1月30號這一個移送是不是金管會移送的？台中商銀到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦，還是金管會移送？這個案子，主委，你瞭解的部分？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可不可以請檢查局長，是不是這個案子……"],["郭委員國文：同樣的案件啊！"],["張局長子浩：對，我知道，我的印象是新北已經先有案子了，我們就把案子移送給它。"],["郭委員國文：是由新北地檢署主動偵辦，顯然不是金管會移送嘛！那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多？主委，你可能要瞭解清楚，你剛上任喔！我不會去太過苛責，但是顯有蹊蹺，你看看1月30號起訴之後，2月1號你們就開罰1,200萬，掏空案總共是10億。而這兩天，你們前天才公布說，今年前5月銀行、證券、保險、全體上市櫃公司總共開罰9,890萬，其中銀行最多、銀行局最多，銀行局當中的金額最高的就是台中商銀，很巧喔！有沒有很巧？一切都發生得很巧。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，這是因為檢調機關要發動，其實我們沒辦法控制。"],["郭委員國文：我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛？主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合。"],["郭委員國文：這一天起訴，隔天你們就開罰，沒有很巧嗎？本席強烈建議你，最好先瞭解清楚啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是、是。"],["郭委員國文：外面都說這可能是金管會在補破網啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們再瞭解，再跟委員報告。"],["郭委員國文：我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生，主委，但是我會持續關心。第二件呢，也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚的，當初國泰金最大的股東是萬寶開發，它拿到全家第二大股東的身分，說要搶全家的三席董事。第一個我想請教主委，這有沒有牽扯到違反產金分離的原則？第二個，當初萬寶開發取得全家股權的時候有強調純財務投資，如果要派董事的話會跟金管會溝通。這兩點就教主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員，其實我們過去常提到產金分離，產金分離的概念我們落實在法規上主要是兩點……"],["郭委員國文：有沒有違反這件事情？"],["彭主任委員金隆：主要是我先跟委員明一下。"],["郭委員國文：是，請說重點。"],["彭主任委員金隆：產金分離是一個概念，不是一個法律規定，這個概念落實在兩個主要的法規上面，一個比如說金融機構的負責人不可以兼任其他非金融機構的負責人；再來比如說金控公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定的比例，比如說5%，用這樣的方式達到。產金分離是大家的概念，其實產金分離的概念並不是強制……"],["郭委員國文：這個案子是幾percent？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東，它不是我們納管的金融機構……"],["郭委員國文：這有延伸性。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，它是大股東沒錯，所以我們也有關心這一件事情，至於未來怎麼做，有關這個部分可不可以請局長……"],["郭委員國文：指派董事有沒有跟你溝通？莊局長。"],["莊局長琇媛：剛剛委員說的都對，其實去年我們就有找它來溝通，它確實告訴我們，因為他們沒有指派董事……"],["郭委員國文：現在又指派了。"],["莊局長琇媛：對，我們當時是說你要指派董事的時候要事先讓我們知道，因為當初認為它沒有指派董事，其實就產金分離的精神而言是符合的。現在……"],["郭委員國文：可是如果就產金分離來看，你也知道全家有很多ATM，將來它combine在一起的話，請問一下有沒有分離？"],["莊局長琇媛：應該算是利害關係人的……"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["莊局長琇媛：對，利害關係人的交易，可是利害關係人的交易在金控法或者是銀行法裡面，只是要遵守利害關係人的程序而已。"],["郭委員國文：局長，我慎重提醒，它之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致，要嚴加監管。主委，也請你注意一下。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：回到本階段，我必須肯定主委這次分四個階段，你的態度是要修法，講得非常明確，而且你也把本席長期以來所說的差異化管理都納入，這個本席都予以肯定。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：但是對於廣度監管的部分，我還是覺得你稍嫌保守。剛剛談到的他律本席不討論太多，我談自律的部分。明天就要成立公會，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：他們成立公會當中我要問你，之前的王牌、幣竟都有捲入一些弊案，甚至幣竟的營運長還被收押，王牌也是如此，這兩家都在二十五家裡面，這兩家你要怎麼處理？你有沒有暫停、停止其營業內容？你有沒有要求撤銷原來的法遵聲明？你有沒有做任何行政處分？有沒有？我看都沒有。他們明天還要籌組公會，聽說幣竟還要當理事長。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們有……"],["郭委員國文：你不覺得這很奇怪嗎？法遵聲明就是要讓他們洗白，給他們良民證，講白一點就是這樣子。"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛講到涉犯那個事件的是他們公司的前負責人，當然我們也很關注明天他們……"],["郭委員國文：就是法人，同一法人啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：公會成立以後，也是我們開始納管很重要的步驟。"],["郭委員國文：主委，我提醒你，公會的成員以後要訂定自律規範。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["郭委員國文：自律規範很關鍵。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，沒錯，我們也非常關注。"],["郭委員國文：如果一群沒有洗白、有案底的業者占的比例比較高，你期待它弄出什麼樣的自律規範？主委，我請教你。"],["彭主任委員金隆：自律規範也要報主管機關備查。"],["郭委員國文：當然，可是文來文往，規範來規範去，就是很小面積的自我規範，自律程度不足，你在管理上不是也很麻煩、很困擾嗎？主委，你要跟它講白，這一張良民證要發給你，可以，但是你如果犯了什麼錯，良民證就馬上收回來。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個會納入考慮，而且未來自律規範的規定現在有初步的架構，就是我們前面頒布的指導原則，這幾個原則其實就是國際上納管VASP很重要的幾個原則，我們希望充分落實到自律規範裡面……"],["郭委員國文：好，你寫了八點，本席都有在看，這原則都要一一納入，而且還要嚴格執行。第二個，現在都是以國內的業者為主，剛剛我就是要問你很大的一個問題，廣度監管方面，stand by的還有61家最好能夠納管，避免檢察官持續抱怨只有入刑的考量。這裡頭有兩個關鍵點，第一個，現在國內大部分消費者交易的對象都還是國際平臺，對不對？你下一步有沒有納入國際平臺的可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這也在我們的法規範圍內，但是它一樣要滿足現在的要求。"],["郭委員國文：對，如果有國際、國外的業者你也不排斥，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我們在法規裡面已經……"],["郭委員國文：都有規範。"],["彭主任委員金隆：都在裡面。"],["郭委員國文：你如果納入國外的幣商，至少形成一個規範，以後國外的幣商來這邊有一個遊戲規則。"],["彭主任委員金隆：落地就歸本國的監理範圍。"],["郭委員國文：好，最後我問你一點，金管會有沒有可能對幣商採取像內線交易、炒股，還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為，做一定程度的行政調查？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們在專法裡面再來針對業務行為規範。"],["郭委員國文：好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念。"],["郭委員國文：對，如果將來在執法的規範上多一個行政調查的話，或許這樣會比較妥適一點。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，未來在專法的時候我們可以考慮。"],["郭委員國文：對，用行政權進行規範，將來整個司法權承擔的程度比較不會過度勞累。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["郭委員國文：我有充分地轉達劍青改的意見，也請政次能夠回去說明一下。好，謝謝主委的回復。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我們結束郭國文召委的質詢。","好，接下來我們請王鴻薇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-17","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","李彥秀","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林楚茵","李坤城","葛如鈞","王世堅","羅明才","黃秀芳","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、法務部、內政部警政署就「《洗錢防制法》修正草案\n與《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》之制定對於防制虛擬資產及交易業務事業（ 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0.821}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 197.046, \"end\": 197.066, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 197.066, \"end\": 197.747, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 197.747, \"end\": 197.827, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 197.827, \"end\": 197.947, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 197.947, \"end\": 198.047, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 198.047, \"end\": 198.167, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 198.167, \"end\": 198.267, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 198.267, \"end\": 198.287, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 198.287, \"end\": 198.307, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 198.307, \"end\": 198.367, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 198.367, \"end\": 198.468, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 198.468, \"end\": 198.628, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 198.628, \"end\": 198.648, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 215.371, \"end\": 235.925, \"text\": \"今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 215.371, \"end\": 215.651, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 215.651, \"end\": 216.512, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 216.512, \"end\": 216.992, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 216.992, \"end\": 218.753, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 218.753, \"end\": 218.974, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 218.974, \"end\": 219.934, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 219.934, \"end\": 220.014, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 220.014, \"end\": 220.134, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 220.134, \"end\": 220.294, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 220.294, \"end\": 220.495, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 758.559, \"end\": 758.66, \"score\": 0.509}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 758.66, \"end\": 758.68, \"score\": 0.045}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 758.68, \"end\": 758.741, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 758.741, \"end\": 758.761, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,064 --> 00:00:08,465\n現在請郭國文召委\n\n2\n00:00:21,506 --> 00:00:43,225\n主委好剛剛我聽您回答李燕秀委員的這個答覆有關於這個新光金前董事長吳東進的部分今天早上最新的消息他是以議員交保本席不是要問你案情我向你對個案不評論我尊重但是事件總有前因後果因為之前金管會有處罰過\n\n3\n00:00:45,366 --> 00:01:03,492\n這次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送本席就要請教這件事情當中我想請問一下到底爆發這件事情有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料\n\n4\n00:01:04,392 --> 00:01:26,838\n一來可能會加速新興合併的作用二來也有可能達到延緩增資的效果雖然剛剛你講說不同的法律面本席同意但是事件就是有前因後果就會有連帶的影響關係就這兩個可能性主委您的看法怎麼樣\n\n5\n00:01:28,513 --> 00:01:46,059\n這個案子我先就第一個問題先回答委員就是這個案子的成因我想在過去我們在檢查的金融檢查是我們蠻例行性的活動檢查完畢以後呢我們就會根據這個檢查的意見比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分\n\n6\n00:01:47,239 --> 00:02:06,941\n行政局委員會主政他們就認為有具體的話我們就移給他們當然他們會有他們檢調的一定的時間至於說至於什麼時候發動這完全跟金管會沒辦法過問我想這件事情那個時程上面我們是沒辦法去...畢業式的案子你手中還有幾個\n\n7\n00:02:09,173 --> 00:02:28,844\n這部分的話我們可以請那個檢察局局長檢察局局長張局長待會隨便拜一下那後果後果這兩件事情的後果剛剛就比如說我想這個過去在新光晶也好台新晶也好也針對這個兩家合併在媒體上也在他們一些的動作上也有做一些發布那大家當然會很多臆測我想我做一個\n\n8\n00:02:30,535 --> 00:02:47,900\n這個金管會主委我不會去臆測這個之間的關聯性但是我們都會密切注意到政治有沒有可能延緩本席直接問他這個政治計畫剛才那個局長已經說明過我們正在審核就是照常進行不會延緩不會受到史事件影響合併會不會加速\n\n9\n00:02:48,991 --> 00:03:14,847\n合併的話我們有一定的程序就是比如說我們合併的方法有很多種法律上很多的架構上他要一定的程序跟申請的過程所以一件按照行政程序處理不會受到影響?就我們就是依法行政的角度來講的話我們會考慮各種各種的因素但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整那你稍作休息張子昊局長你手頭上還有多少案子?\n\n10\n00:03:16,906 --> 00:03:18,648\n主委另外同樣一個案件我就就教於您\n\n11\n00:03:35,371 --> 00:03:55,925\n今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道\n\n12\n00:04:02,246 --> 00:04:17,594\n我的印象是那個是新北已經先有案子了我們把案子就移送給他就是新北是由新北地檢署這個主動偵辦嘛那顯然不是金管會移送嘛對啊那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多\n\n13\n00:04:18,908 --> 00:04:28,076\n主委你可能要了解清楚喔你剛上任喔我不會太過苛責啦但是顯有蹊蹺啦你看看1月30號請訴之後2月1號你們就開罰\n\n14\n00:04:32,438 --> 00:04:57,854\n一千兩百萬掏空案總共是十億而這兩天你們前天才公布說今年前五月銀行、證券、保險上市櫃公司總共開罰九千八百九十萬其中銀行最多銀行局最多銀行局當中金額最高的就是台中商銀很巧齁有沒有很巧一切都發生了很巧\n\n15\n00:04:59,634 --> 00:05:22,695\n這跟委員報告就是因為減掉機關要發動其實我們沒辦法控制我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛主委這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合這一天起訴隔天你們就開罰沒有很巧嗎本席強烈建議你最好先了解清楚啦外面都說這可能是金管會在捕破網啦\n\n16\n00:05:25,717 --> 00:05:49,271\n我們再瞭解再跟委員報告我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生主委但是我會持續關心第二件也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚這一個當初國泰金最大的股東萬寶開發他拿到全家現在第二大股東說要搶全家三席董事\n\n17\n00:05:50,560 --> 00:06:12,438\n第一個我要請教主委這也沒有牽扯到違反產經分離的原則第二個當初萬寶開發取得全家的股權的時候有強調存財務投資如果要派董事的話只派董事的話會跟金管會溝通這兩點就叫主委\n\n18\n00:06:15,087 --> 00:06:39,699\n謝謝委員其實我們在過去常提到產金分離產金分離的概念我們如果落實在我們的法規上有沒有違反這件事情沒有主要是我先跟委員說明一下產金分離是一個概念它不是一個法律的規定這個概念落實在我們兩個主要的法規上面一個就是說比如說金融機構的負責人不可以去兼任其他的非金融機構負責人\n\n19\n00:06:40,919 --> 00:06:57,977\n再來就是說我們的比如說比如金融機構投資比如像金融公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定比例比如說5%像金融公司他用這樣的方式來達到這個至於說產金分離是一個大家的概念其實產金分離的概念並不是一個說強制所以那這個案子是幾%?\n\n20\n00:07:01,548 --> 00:07:29,001\n這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東他不是國泰他不是我們納管的所謂的金融機構他是有延伸性但是他是一個大股東是沒錯所以說我們也有關心這件事情這個部分剛剛就至於說未來怎麼做的話我想說這個那局長這邊有關這個部分可不可以請局長再有沒有跟你溝通啊指派董事有沒有跟你溝通啊莊局長\n\n21\n00:07:30,642 --> 00:07:58,476\n報告委員剛剛委員說的都對啦因為其實去年的時候我們就有找他來溝通對他確實告訴我們說因為他們沒有指派董事對現在又指派啦對那所以我們當時是說如果您有任何要指派董事的時候要事先跟我們讓我們知道因為當初就認為說他沒有指派董事其實就產經分離的精神而言其實是符合的啦\n\n22\n00:07:59,056 --> 00:08:26,818\n那現在可是如果說就產經分離你也知道全家有很多ATM嗎將來它如果砍敗在一起呢這請問一下有沒有分離啊對這應該就是就是算是利害關係人的利害關係人的交易可是利害關係人的交易在我們的不管是金控法或者是銀行法裡面其實只是要遵守那個利害關係人的程序而已局長我慎重提醒啦齁\n\n23\n00:08:27,398 --> 00:08:48,368\n他之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致要嚴加的監管主委也請你注意一下謝謝回到本階段主委我必須肯定你這次分四個階段而且你態度說要修法講得非常明確而且你也把本席長期以來所要說的差異化管理都納入了這個本席都予以肯定\n\n24\n00:08:49,048 --> 00:09:14,641\n但是對有一個部分的廣度監管的部分我還是覺得你稍前保守而剛剛談到的這個貪慮的部分本席不討論太多我談自律的部分明天就要成立了工會嘛對不對對是在成立工會當中我要問你的之前的王牌畢竟都有潛入一些弊案甚至畢竟的這個營運長還被收邀王牌也是如此類似這種這兩家都在25家裡面欸\n\n25\n00:09:15,862 --> 00:09:28,267\n你這兩家你要怎麼處理你有沒有暫停停止其營業內容你有沒有要求其撤銷其原來的這個法制聲明你有沒有做任何行政處分有沒有我看都沒有欸他們還會明天要籌組工會聽說畢竟還要當理事長欸\n\n26\n00:09:35,578 --> 00:09:59,239\n你不覺得這很奇怪嗎?你本來法尊聲明就是要讓他們洗白、給他們良民證講白點就這樣子剛剛那個涉犯事件是他們公司的前負責人當然我們也很關注明天他們大概就是法人啊、同一法人啊工會成立以後也是我們開始納管的很重要的步驟\n\n27\n00:10:00,578 --> 00:10:18,474\n主委我提醒你喔工會的成員以後是要訂定次率規範欸是的次率規範很關鍵欸是沒錯這是我們也非常非常關注的如果一群啊沒有洗白有allday的業者的話占的比例比較高你期待他弄出什麼樣的次率規範啊主委\n\n28\n00:10:19,435 --> 00:10:41,332\n我請教你自律規範也要報主管機關來備查當然啊可是他文來文往他那個規範來規範去就是很小的面積的自我規範自律程度不足你不是管理上也很麻煩很困擾所以你要跟他講白我這一張良民證要發給你可以但是你如果犯了什麼錯良民證我就馬上可以收回來\n\n29\n00:10:42,232 --> 00:10:56,722\n這個我們會納入考慮就是說這部分未來自立規範的規定我們現在有初步的架構就是我們前面有頒布的指導原則這幾個原則其實就是國際上面納管VASP很重要的幾個原則我們希望充分的落實到這個自立規範裡面去\n\n30\n00:10:58,151 --> 00:11:21,841\n你寫了八點你寫了八點我本席都有在看這原則都要一一納入而且還要嚴格執行第二個你現在都是以國內的業者為主啦國內的業者為主剛剛我就是要問你一個很大的一個問題廣度監管你最好他standby的還有61家的部分能夠納管的部分這避免檢察官持續在抱怨的只有入刑的考量這裡頭有兩個一個關鍵點\n\n31\n00:11:23,322 --> 00:11:50,491\n第一個我們現在大部分國內的這個消費者所交易的對象都是還是國際的這個平台啊對不對你下一步有沒有要納入國際的平台的可能性這也在我們的這個法規範圍之內但是他一樣要滿足我們現在的要求對如果有國際國外的業者你也不排斥嘛對不對這我們在法規裡面就已經都有規範因為你如果納入國外的這個B商的話你至少形成一個規範嘛以後國外的B商來這邊的話有一個遊戲規則嘛\n\n32\n00:11:52,011 --> 00:12:07,802\n落地就歸本國的監理範圍裡面最後我問你一點主席站起來最後一點金管會有沒有可能對這個必殺有沒有可能採取類似像鏈系交易、炒股還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為做一定程度的行政調查有沒有可能\n\n33\n00:12:09,022 --> 00:12:37,834\n這個齁我們在那個專法裡面我們再來針對業務行為在這個規範我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念對如果說將來在執法的規範上有多一個行政調查的話或許啊這樣會比較妥適一點啦謝謝委員我想說在未來專法的時候我們可以來考慮對用行政權進行規範的話將來的整個司法權的這個承擔的程度也比較不會那麼過度勞累啦我有充分的轉達這一個建清改的意見也請那個政次能夠回去說明一下\n\n34\n00:12:38,215 --> 00:12:38,761\n好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7064\t8465\t現在請郭國文召委\n21506\t43225\t主委好 剛剛我聽您回答李燕秀委員的這個答覆有關於這個新光金前董事長吳東進的部分今天早上最新的消息他是以議員交保本席不是要問你案情我向你對個案不評論我尊重但是事件總有前因後果因為之前金管會有處罰過\n45366\t63492\t這次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送本席就要請教這件事情當中我想請問一下到底爆發這件事情有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料\n64392\t86838\t一來可能會加速新興合併的作用二來也有可能達到延緩增資的效果雖然剛剛你講說不同的法律面本席同意但是事件就是有前因後果就會有連帶的影響關係就這兩個可能性主委您的看法怎麼樣\n88513\t106059\t這個案子我先就第一個問題先回答委員就是這個案子的成因我想在過去我們在檢查的金融檢查是我們蠻例行性的活動檢查完畢以後呢我們就會根據這個檢查的意見比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分\n107239\t126941\t行政局委員會主政他們就認為有具體的話我們就移給他們當然他們會有他們檢調的一定的時間至於說至於什麼時候發動這完全跟金管會沒辦法過問我想這件事情那個時程上面我們是沒辦法去...畢業式的案子你手中還有幾個\n129173\t148844\t這部分的話我們可以請那個檢察局局長檢察局局長張局長待會隨便拜一下那後果後果這兩件事情的後果剛剛就比如說我想這個過去在新光晶也好台新晶也好也針對這個兩家合併在媒體上也在他們一些的動作上也有做一些發布那大家當然會很多臆測我想我做一個\n150535\t167900\t這個金管會主委我不會去臆測這個之間的關聯性但是我們都會密切注意到政治有沒有可能延緩本席直接問他這個政治計畫剛才那個局長已經說明過我們正在審核就是照常進行不會延緩不會受到史事件影響合併會不會加速\n168991\t194847\t合併的話我們有一定的程序就是比如說我們合併的方法有很多種法律上很多的架構上他要一定的程序跟申請的過程所以一件按照行政程序處理不會受到影響?就我們就是依法行政的角度來講的話我們會考慮各種各種的因素但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整那你稍作休息張子昊局長你手頭上還有多少案子?\n196906\t198648\t主委另外同樣一個案件我就就教於您\n215371\t235925\t今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道\n242246\t257594\t我的印象是那個是新北已經先有案子了我們把案子就移送給他就是新北是由新北地檢署這個主動偵辦嘛那顯然不是金管會移送嘛對啊那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多\n258908\t268076\t主委你可能要了解清楚喔你剛上任喔我不會太過苛責啦但是顯有蹊蹺啦你看看1月30號請訴之後2月1號你們就開罰\n272438\t297854\t一千兩百萬掏空案總共是十億而這兩天你們前天才公布說今年前五月銀行、證券、保險上市櫃公司總共開罰九千八百九十萬其中銀行最多銀行局最多銀行局當中金額最高的就是台中商銀很巧齁有沒有很巧一切都發生了很巧\n299634\t322695\t這跟委員報告就是因為減掉機關要發動其實我們沒辦法控制我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛主委這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合這一天起訴隔天你們就開罰沒有很巧嗎本席強烈建議你最好先了解清楚啦外面都說這可能是金管會在捕破網啦\n325717\t349271\t我們再瞭解再跟委員報告我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生主委但是我會持續關心第二件也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚這一個當初國泰金最大的股東萬寶開發他拿到全家現在第二大股東說要搶全家三席董事\n350560\t372438\t第一個我要請教主委這也沒有牽扯到違反產經分離的原則第二個當初萬寶開發取得全家的股權的時候有強調存財務投資如果要派董事的話只派董事的話會跟金管會溝通這兩點就叫主委\n375087\t399699\t謝謝委員其實我們在過去常提到產金分離產金分離的概念我們如果落實在我們的法規上有沒有違反這件事情沒有主要是我先跟委員說明一下產金分離是一個概念它不是一個法律的規定這個概念落實在我們兩個主要的法規上面一個就是說比如說金融機構的負責人不可以去兼任其他的非金融機構負責人\n400919\t417977\t再來就是說我們的比如說比如金融機構投資比如像金融公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定比例比如說5%像金融公司他用這樣的方式來達到這個至於說產金分離是一個大家的概念其實產金分離的概念並不是一個說強制所以那這個案子是幾%?\n421548\t449001\t這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東他不是國泰他不是我們納管的所謂的金融機構他是有延伸性但是他是一個大股東是沒錯所以說我們也有關心這件事情這個部分剛剛就至於說未來怎麼做的話我想說這個那局長這邊有關這個部分可不可以請局長再有沒有跟你溝通啊指派董事有沒有跟你溝通啊莊局長\n450642\t478476\t報告委員 剛剛委員說的都對啦因為其實去年的時候我們就有找他來溝通對他確實告訴我們說因為他們沒有指派董事對現在又指派啦對 那所以我們當時是說如果您有任何要指派董事的時候要事先跟我們 讓我們知道因為當初就認為說他沒有指派董事其實就產經分離的精神而言其實是符合的啦\n479056\t506818\t那現在可是如果說就產經分離你也知道全家有很多ATM嗎將來它如果砍敗在一起呢這請問一下有沒有分離啊對這應該就是就是算是利害關係人的利害關係人的交易可是利害關係人的交易在我們的不管是金控法或者是銀行法裡面其實只是要遵守那個利害關係人的程序而已局長我慎重提醒啦齁\n507398\t528368\t他之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致要嚴加的監管主委也請你注意一下謝謝回到本階段主委我必須肯定你這次分四個階段而且你態度說要修法講得非常明確而且你也把本席長期以來所要說的差異化管理都納入了這個本席都予以肯定\n529048\t554641\t但是對有一個部分的廣度監管的部分我還是覺得你稍前保守而剛剛談到的這個貪慮的部分本席不討論太多我談自律的部分明天就要成立了工會嘛 對不對對 是在成立工會當中我要問你的之前的王牌畢竟都有潛入一些弊案甚至畢竟的這個營運長還被收邀王牌也是如此類似這種這兩家都在25家裡面欸\n555862\t568267\t你這兩家你要怎麼處理你有沒有暫停停止其營業內容你有沒有要求其撤銷其原來的這個法制聲明你有沒有做任何行政處分有沒有我看都沒有欸他們還會明天要籌組工會聽說畢竟還要當理事長欸\n575578\t599239\t你不覺得這很奇怪嗎?你本來法尊聲明就是要讓他們洗白、給他們良民證講白點就這樣子剛剛那個涉犯事件是他們公司的前負責人當然我們也很關注明天他們大概就是法人啊、同一法人啊工會成立以後也是我們開始納管的很重要的步驟\n600578\t618474\t主委 我提醒你喔 工會的成員以後是要訂定次率規範欸是的次率規範很關鍵欸是沒錯 這是我們也非常非常關注的如果一群啊 沒有洗白 有all day的業者的話 占的比例比較高你期待他弄出什麼樣的次率規範啊 主委\n619435\t641332\t我請教你自律規範也要報主管機關來備查當然啊可是他文來文往他那個規範來規範去就是很小的面積的自我規範自律程度不足你不是管理上也很麻煩很困擾所以你要跟他講白我這一張良民證要發給你可以但是你如果犯了什麼錯良民證我就馬上可以收回來\n642232\t656722\t這個我們會納入考慮就是說這部分未來自立規範的規定我們現在有初步的架構就是我們前面有頒布的指導原則這幾個原則其實就是國際上面納管VASP很重要的幾個原則我們希望充分的落實到這個自立規範裡面去\n658151\t681841\t你寫了八點你寫了八點我本席都有在看這原則都要一一納入而且還要嚴格執行第二個你現在都是以國內的業者為主啦國內的業者為主剛剛我就是要問你一個很大的一個問題廣度監管你最好他stand by的還有61家的部分能夠納管的部分這避免檢察官持續在抱怨的只有入刑的考量這裡頭有兩個一個關鍵點\n683322\t710491\t第一個我們現在大部分國內的這個消費者所交易的對象都是還是國際的這個平台啊對不對你下一步有沒有要納入國際的平台的可能性這也在我們的這個法規範圍之內但是他一樣要滿足我們現在的要求對如果有國際國外的業者你也不排斥嘛對不對這我們在法規裡面就已經都有規範因為你如果納入國外的這個B商的話你至少形成一個規範嘛以後國外的B商來這邊的話有一個遊戲規則嘛\n712011\t727802\t落地就歸本國的監理範圍裡面最後我問你一點主席站起來最後一點金管會有沒有可能對這個必殺有沒有可能採取類似像鏈系交易、炒股還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為做一定程度的行政調查有沒有可能\n729022\t757834\t這個齁 我們在那個專法裡面我們再來針對業務行為在這個規範我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念對 如果說將來在執法的規範上有多一個行政調查的話或許啊 這樣會比較妥適一點啦謝謝委員我想說在未來專法的時候我們可以來考慮對 用行政權進行規範的話將來的整個司法權的這個承擔的程度也比較不會那麼過度勞累啦我有充分的轉達這一個建清改的意見也請那個政次能夠回去說明一下\n758215\t758761\t好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝委員\n","txt":"現在請郭國文召委\n主委好 剛剛我聽您回答李燕秀委員的這個答覆有關於這個新光金前董事長吳東進的部分今天早上最新的消息他是以議員交保本席不是要問你案情我向你對個案不評論我尊重但是事件總有前因後果因為之前金管會有處罰過\n這次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送本席就要請教這件事情當中我想請問一下到底爆發這件事情有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料\n一來可能會加速新興合併的作用二來也有可能達到延緩增資的效果雖然剛剛你講說不同的法律面本席同意但是事件就是有前因後果就會有連帶的影響關係就這兩個可能性主委您的看法怎麼樣\n這個案子我先就第一個問題先回答委員就是這個案子的成因我想在過去我們在檢查的金融檢查是我們蠻例行性的活動檢查完畢以後呢我們就會根據這個檢查的意見比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分\n行政局委員會主政他們就認為有具體的話我們就移給他們當然他們會有他們檢調的一定的時間至於說至於什麼時候發動這完全跟金管會沒辦法過問我想這件事情那個時程上面我們是沒辦法去...畢業式的案子你手中還有幾個\n這部分的話我們可以請那個檢察局局長檢察局局長張局長待會隨便拜一下那後果後果這兩件事情的後果剛剛就比如說我想這個過去在新光晶也好台新晶也好也針對這個兩家合併在媒體上也在他們一些的動作上也有做一些發布那大家當然會很多臆測我想我做一個\n這個金管會主委我不會去臆測這個之間的關聯性但是我們都會密切注意到政治有沒有可能延緩本席直接問他這個政治計畫剛才那個局長已經說明過我們正在審核就是照常進行不會延緩不會受到史事件影響合併會不會加速\n合併的話我們有一定的程序就是比如說我們合併的方法有很多種法律上很多的架構上他要一定的程序跟申請的過程所以一件按照行政程序處理不會受到影響?就我們就是依法行政的角度來講的話我們會考慮各種各種的因素但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整那你稍作休息張子昊局長你手頭上還有多少案子?\n主委另外同樣一個案件我就就教於您\n今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道\n我的印象是那個是新北已經先有案子了我們把案子就移送給他就是新北是由新北地檢署這個主動偵辦嘛那顯然不是金管會移送嘛對啊那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多\n主委你可能要了解清楚喔你剛上任喔我不會太過苛責啦但是顯有蹊蹺啦你看看1月30號請訴之後2月1號你們就開罰\n一千兩百萬掏空案總共是十億而這兩天你們前天才公布說今年前五月銀行、證券、保險上市櫃公司總共開罰九千八百九十萬其中銀行最多銀行局最多銀行局當中金額最高的就是台中商銀很巧齁有沒有很巧一切都發生了很巧\n這跟委員報告就是因為減掉機關要發動其實我們沒辦法控制我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛主委這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合這一天起訴隔天你們就開罰沒有很巧嗎本席強烈建議你最好先了解清楚啦外面都說這可能是金管會在捕破網啦\n我們再瞭解再跟委員報告我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生主委但是我會持續關心第二件也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚這一個當初國泰金最大的股東萬寶開發他拿到全家現在第二大股東說要搶全家三席董事\n第一個我要請教主委這也沒有牽扯到違反產經分離的原則第二個當初萬寶開發取得全家的股權的時候有強調存財務投資如果要派董事的話只派董事的話會跟金管會溝通這兩點就叫主委\n謝謝委員其實我們在過去常提到產金分離產金分離的概念我們如果落實在我們的法規上有沒有違反這件事情沒有主要是我先跟委員說明一下產金分離是一個概念它不是一個法律的規定這個概念落實在我們兩個主要的法規上面一個就是說比如說金融機構的負責人不可以去兼任其他的非金融機構負責人\n再來就是說我們的比如說比如金融機構投資比如像金融公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定比例比如說5%像金融公司他用這樣的方式來達到這個至於說產金分離是一個大家的概念其實產金分離的概念並不是一個說強制所以那這個案子是幾%?\n這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東他不是國泰他不是我們納管的所謂的金融機構他是有延伸性但是他是一個大股東是沒錯所以說我們也有關心這件事情這個部分剛剛就至於說未來怎麼做的話我想說這個那局長這邊有關這個部分可不可以請局長再有沒有跟你溝通啊指派董事有沒有跟你溝通啊莊局長\n報告委員 剛剛委員說的都對啦因為其實去年的時候我們就有找他來溝通對他確實告訴我們說因為他們沒有指派董事對現在又指派啦對 那所以我們當時是說如果您有任何要指派董事的時候要事先跟我們 讓我們知道因為當初就認為說他沒有指派董事其實就產經分離的精神而言其實是符合的啦\n那現在可是如果說就產經分離你也知道全家有很多ATM嗎將來它如果砍敗在一起呢這請問一下有沒有分離啊對這應該就是就是算是利害關係人的利害關係人的交易可是利害關係人的交易在我們的不管是金控法或者是銀行法裡面其實只是要遵守那個利害關係人的程序而已局長我慎重提醒啦齁\n他之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致要嚴加的監管主委也請你注意一下謝謝回到本階段主委我必須肯定你這次分四個階段而且你態度說要修法講得非常明確而且你也把本席長期以來所要說的差異化管理都納入了這個本席都予以肯定\n但是對有一個部分的廣度監管的部分我還是覺得你稍前保守而剛剛談到的這個貪慮的部分本席不討論太多我談自律的部分明天就要成立了工會嘛 對不對對 是在成立工會當中我要問你的之前的王牌畢竟都有潛入一些弊案甚至畢竟的這個營運長還被收邀王牌也是如此類似這種這兩家都在25家裡面欸\n你這兩家你要怎麼處理你有沒有暫停停止其營業內容你有沒有要求其撤銷其原來的這個法制聲明你有沒有做任何行政處分有沒有我看都沒有欸他們還會明天要籌組工會聽說畢竟還要當理事長欸\n你不覺得這很奇怪嗎?你本來法尊聲明就是要讓他們洗白、給他們良民證講白點就這樣子剛剛那個涉犯事件是他們公司的前負責人當然我們也很關注明天他們大概就是法人啊、同一法人啊工會成立以後也是我們開始納管的很重要的步驟\n主委 我提醒你喔 工會的成員以後是要訂定次率規範欸是的次率規範很關鍵欸是沒錯 這是我們也非常非常關注的如果一群啊 沒有洗白 有all day的業者的話 占的比例比較高你期待他弄出什麼樣的次率規範啊 主委\n我請教你自律規範也要報主管機關來備查當然啊可是他文來文往他那個規範來規範去就是很小的面積的自我規範自律程度不足你不是管理上也很麻煩很困擾所以你要跟他講白我這一張良民證要發給你可以但是你如果犯了什麼錯良民證我就馬上可以收回來\n這個我們會納入考慮就是說這部分未來自立規範的規定我們現在有初步的架構就是我們前面有頒布的指導原則這幾個原則其實就是國際上面納管VASP很重要的幾個原則我們希望充分的落實到這個自立規範裡面去\n你寫了八點你寫了八點我本席都有在看這原則都要一一納入而且還要嚴格執行第二個你現在都是以國內的業者為主啦國內的業者為主剛剛我就是要問你一個很大的一個問題廣度監管你最好他stand by的還有61家的部分能夠納管的部分這避免檢察官持續在抱怨的只有入刑的考量這裡頭有兩個一個關鍵點\n第一個我們現在大部分國內的這個消費者所交易的對象都是還是國際的這個平台啊對不對你下一步有沒有要納入國際的平台的可能性這也在我們的這個法規範圍之內但是他一樣要滿足我們現在的要求對如果有國際國外的業者你也不排斥嘛對不對這我們在法規裡面就已經都有規範因為你如果納入國外的這個B商的話你至少形成一個規範嘛以後國外的B商來這邊的話有一個遊戲規則嘛\n落地就歸本國的監理範圍裡面最後我問你一點主席站起來最後一點金管會有沒有可能對這個必殺有沒有可能採取類似像鏈系交易、炒股還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為做一定程度的行政調查有沒有可能\n這個齁 我們在那個專法裡面我們再來針對業務行為在這個規範我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念對 如果說將來在執法的規範上有多一個行政調查的話或許啊 這樣會比較妥適一點啦謝謝委員我想說在未來專法的時候我們可以來考慮對 用行政權進行規範的話將來的整個司法權的這個承擔的程度也比較不會那麼過度勞累啦我有充分的轉達這一個建清改的意見也請那個政次能夠回去說明一下\n好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.064 --> 00:08.465\n現在請郭國文召委\n\n00:21.506 --> 00:43.225\n主委好剛剛我聽您回答李燕秀委員的這個答覆有關於這個新光金前董事長吳東進的部分今天早上最新的消息他是以議員交保本席不是要問你案情我向你對個案不評論我尊重但是事件總有前因後果因為之前金管會有處罰過\n\n00:45.366 --> 01:03.492\n這次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送本席就要請教這件事情當中我想請問一下到底爆發這件事情有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料\n\n01:04.392 --> 01:26.838\n一來可能會加速新興合併的作用二來也有可能達到延緩增資的效果雖然剛剛你講說不同的法律面本席同意但是事件就是有前因後果就會有連帶的影響關係就這兩個可能性主委您的看法怎麼樣\n\n01:28.513 --> 01:46.059\n這個案子我先就第一個問題先回答委員就是這個案子的成因我想在過去我們在檢查的金融檢查是我們蠻例行性的活動檢查完畢以後呢我們就會根據這個檢查的意見比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分\n\n01:47.239 --> 02:06.941\n行政局委員會主政他們就認為有具體的話我們就移給他們當然他們會有他們檢調的一定的時間至於說至於什麼時候發動這完全跟金管會沒辦法過問我想這件事情那個時程上面我們是沒辦法去...畢業式的案子你手中還有幾個\n\n02:09.173 --> 02:28.844\n這部分的話我們可以請那個檢察局局長檢察局局長張局長待會隨便拜一下那後果後果這兩件事情的後果剛剛就比如說我想這個過去在新光晶也好台新晶也好也針對這個兩家合併在媒體上也在他們一些的動作上也有做一些發布那大家當然會很多臆測我想我做一個\n\n02:30.535 --> 02:47.900\n這個金管會主委我不會去臆測這個之間的關聯性但是我們都會密切注意到政治有沒有可能延緩本席直接問他這個政治計畫剛才那個局長已經說明過我們正在審核就是照常進行不會延緩不會受到史事件影響合併會不會加速\n\n02:48.991 --> 03:14.847\n合併的話我們有一定的程序就是比如說我們合併的方法有很多種法律上很多的架構上他要一定的程序跟申請的過程所以一件按照行政程序處理不會受到影響?就我們就是依法行政的角度來講的話我們會考慮各種各種的因素但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整那你稍作休息張子昊局長你手頭上還有多少案子?\n\n03:16.906 --> 03:18.648\n主委另外同樣一個案件我就就教於您\n\n03:35.371 --> 03:55.925\n今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道\n\n04:02.246 --> 04:17.594\n我的印象是那個是新北已經先有案子了我們把案子就移送給他就是新北是由新北地檢署這個主動偵辦嘛那顯然不是金管會移送嘛對啊那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多\n\n04:18.908 --> 04:28.076\n主委你可能要了解清楚喔你剛上任喔我不會太過苛責啦但是顯有蹊蹺啦你看看1月30號請訴之後2月1號你們就開罰\n\n04:32.438 --> 04:57.854\n一千兩百萬掏空案總共是十億而這兩天你們前天才公布說今年前五月銀行、證券、保險上市櫃公司總共開罰九千八百九十萬其中銀行最多銀行局最多銀行局當中金額最高的就是台中商銀很巧齁有沒有很巧一切都發生了很巧\n\n04:59.634 --> 05:22.695\n這跟委員報告就是因為減掉機關要發動其實我們沒辦法控制我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛主委這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合這一天起訴隔天你們就開罰沒有很巧嗎本席強烈建議你最好先了解清楚啦外面都說這可能是金管會在捕破網啦\n\n05:25.717 --> 05:49.271\n我們再瞭解再跟委員報告我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生主委但是我會持續關心第二件也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚這一個當初國泰金最大的股東萬寶開發他拿到全家現在第二大股東說要搶全家三席董事\n\n05:50.560 --> 06:12.438\n第一個我要請教主委這也沒有牽扯到違反產經分離的原則第二個當初萬寶開發取得全家的股權的時候有強調存財務投資如果要派董事的話只派董事的話會跟金管會溝通這兩點就叫主委\n\n06:15.087 --> 06:39.699\n謝謝委員其實我們在過去常提到產金分離產金分離的概念我們如果落實在我們的法規上有沒有違反這件事情沒有主要是我先跟委員說明一下產金分離是一個概念它不是一個法律的規定這個概念落實在我們兩個主要的法規上面一個就是說比如說金融機構的負責人不可以去兼任其他的非金融機構負責人\n\n06:40.919 --> 06:57.977\n再來就是說我們的比如說比如金融機構投資比如像金融公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定比例比如說5%像金融公司他用這樣的方式來達到這個至於說產金分離是一個大家的概念其實產金分離的概念並不是一個說強制所以那這個案子是幾%?\n\n07:01.548 --> 07:29.001\n這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東他不是國泰他不是我們納管的所謂的金融機構他是有延伸性但是他是一個大股東是沒錯所以說我們也有關心這件事情這個部分剛剛就至於說未來怎麼做的話我想說這個那局長這邊有關這個部分可不可以請局長再有沒有跟你溝通啊指派董事有沒有跟你溝通啊莊局長\n\n07:30.642 --> 07:58.476\n報告委員剛剛委員說的都對啦因為其實去年的時候我們就有找他來溝通對他確實告訴我們說因為他們沒有指派董事對現在又指派啦對那所以我們當時是說如果您有任何要指派董事的時候要事先跟我們讓我們知道因為當初就認為說他沒有指派董事其實就產經分離的精神而言其實是符合的啦\n\n07:59.056 --> 08:26.818\n那現在可是如果說就產經分離你也知道全家有很多ATM嗎將來它如果砍敗在一起呢這請問一下有沒有分離啊對這應該就是就是算是利害關係人的利害關係人的交易可是利害關係人的交易在我們的不管是金控法或者是銀行法裡面其實只是要遵守那個利害關係人的程序而已局長我慎重提醒啦齁\n\n08:27.398 --> 08:48.368\n他之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致要嚴加的監管主委也請你注意一下謝謝回到本階段主委我必須肯定你這次分四個階段而且你態度說要修法講得非常明確而且你也把本席長期以來所要說的差異化管理都納入了這個本席都予以肯定\n\n08:49.048 --> 09:14.641\n但是對有一個部分的廣度監管的部分我還是覺得你稍前保守而剛剛談到的這個貪慮的部分本席不討論太多我談自律的部分明天就要成立了工會嘛對不對對是在成立工會當中我要問你的之前的王牌畢竟都有潛入一些弊案甚至畢竟的這個營運長還被收邀王牌也是如此類似這種這兩家都在25家裡面欸\n\n09:15.862 --> 09:28.267\n你這兩家你要怎麼處理你有沒有暫停停止其營業內容你有沒有要求其撤銷其原來的這個法制聲明你有沒有做任何行政處分有沒有我看都沒有欸他們還會明天要籌組工會聽說畢竟還要當理事長欸\n\n09:35.578 --> 09:59.239\n你不覺得這很奇怪嗎?你本來法尊聲明就是要讓他們洗白、給他們良民證講白點就這樣子剛剛那個涉犯事件是他們公司的前負責人當然我們也很關注明天他們大概就是法人啊、同一法人啊工會成立以後也是我們開始納管的很重要的步驟\n\n10:00.578 --> 10:18.474\n主委我提醒你喔工會的成員以後是要訂定次率規範欸是的次率規範很關鍵欸是沒錯這是我們也非常非常關注的如果一群啊沒有洗白有allday的業者的話占的比例比較高你期待他弄出什麼樣的次率規範啊主委\n\n10:19.435 --> 10:41.332\n我請教你自律規範也要報主管機關來備查當然啊可是他文來文往他那個規範來規範去就是很小的面積的自我規範自律程度不足你不是管理上也很麻煩很困擾所以你要跟他講白我這一張良民證要發給你可以但是你如果犯了什麼錯良民證我就馬上可以收回來\n\n10:42.232 --> 10:56.722\n這個我們會納入考慮就是說這部分未來自立規範的規定我們現在有初步的架構就是我們前面有頒布的指導原則這幾個原則其實就是國際上面納管VASP很重要的幾個原則我們希望充分的落實到這個自立規範裡面去\n\n10:58.151 --> 11:21.841\n你寫了八點你寫了八點我本席都有在看這原則都要一一納入而且還要嚴格執行第二個你現在都是以國內的業者為主啦國內的業者為主剛剛我就是要問你一個很大的一個問題廣度監管你最好他standby的還有61家的部分能夠納管的部分這避免檢察官持續在抱怨的只有入刑的考量這裡頭有兩個一個關鍵點\n\n11:23.322 --> 11:50.491\n第一個我們現在大部分國內的這個消費者所交易的對象都是還是國際的這個平台啊對不對你下一步有沒有要納入國際的平台的可能性這也在我們的這個法規範圍之內但是他一樣要滿足我們現在的要求對如果有國際國外的業者你也不排斥嘛對不對這我們在法規裡面就已經都有規範因為你如果納入國外的這個B商的話你至少形成一個規範嘛以後國外的B商來這邊的話有一個遊戲規則嘛\n\n11:52.011 --> 12:07.802\n落地就歸本國的監理範圍裡面最後我問你一點主席站起來最後一點金管會有沒有可能對這個必殺有沒有可能採取類似像鏈系交易、炒股還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為做一定程度的行政調查有沒有可能\n\n12:09.022 --> 12:37.834\n這個齁我們在那個專法裡面我們再來針對業務行為在這個規範我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念對如果說將來在執法的規範上有多一個行政調查的話或許啊這樣會比較妥適一點啦謝謝委員我想說在未來專法的時候我們可以來考慮對用行政權進行規範的話將來的整個司法權的這個承擔的程度也比較不會那麼過度勞累啦我有充分的轉達這一個建清改的意見也請那個政次能夠回去說明一下\n\n12:38.215 --> 12:38.761\n好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.064,"end":8.465,"text":"現在請郭國文召委"},{"start":21.506,"end":43.225,"text":"主委好 剛剛我聽您回答李燕秀委員的這個答覆有關於這個新光金前董事長吳東進的部分今天早上最新的消息他是以議員交保本席不是要問你案情我向你對個案不評論我尊重但是事件總有前因後果因為之前金管會有處罰過"},{"start":45.366,"end":63.492,"text":"這次也是金管會駐會檢察官移送本席就要請教這件事情當中我想請問一下到底爆發這件事情有人就說這肯定是內部人所提供的一些資料"},{"start":64.392,"end":86.838,"text":"一來可能會加速新興合併的作用二來也有可能達到延緩增資的效果雖然剛剛你講說不同的法律面本席同意但是事件就是有前因後果就會有連帶的影響關係就這兩個可能性主委您的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":88.513,"end":106.059,"text":"這個案子我先就第一個問題先回答委員就是這個案子的成因我想在過去我們在檢查的金融檢查是我們蠻例行性的活動檢查完畢以後呢我們就會根據這個檢查的意見比如說這裡面可能我們認為會涉犯到刑責的部分"},{"start":107.239,"end":126.941,"text":"行政局委員會主政他們就認為有具體的話我們就移給他們當然他們會有他們檢調的一定的時間至於說至於什麼時候發動這完全跟金管會沒辦法過問我想這件事情那個時程上面我們是沒辦法去...畢業式的案子你手中還有幾個"},{"start":129.173,"end":148.844,"text":"這部分的話我們可以請那個檢察局局長檢察局局長張局長待會隨便拜一下那後果後果這兩件事情的後果剛剛就比如說我想這個過去在新光晶也好台新晶也好也針對這個兩家合併在媒體上也在他們一些的動作上也有做一些發布那大家當然會很多臆測我想我做一個"},{"start":150.535,"end":167.9,"text":"這個金管會主委我不會去臆測這個之間的關聯性但是我們都會密切注意到政治有沒有可能延緩本席直接問他這個政治計畫剛才那個局長已經說明過我們正在審核就是照常進行不會延緩不會受到史事件影響合併會不會加速"},{"start":168.991,"end":194.847,"text":"合併的話我們有一定的程序就是比如說我們合併的方法有很多種法律上很多的架構上他要一定的程序跟申請的過程所以一件按照行政程序處理不會受到影響?就我們就是依法行政的角度來講的話我們會考慮各種各種的因素但是我們不會因為某些案件而做一些法規上的調整那你稍作休息張子昊局長你手頭上還有多少案子?"},{"start":196.906,"end":198.648,"text":"主委另外同樣一個案件我就就教於您"},{"start":215.371,"end":235.925,"text":"今年1月30日這個移送是不是金管會移送?臺中商業到底是新北地檢署主動偵辦還是金管會移送?這個案子我可不可以請檢察局長是不是這個案子?同樣的案件對我知道"},{"start":242.246,"end":257.594,"text":"我的印象是那個是新北已經先有案子了我們把案子就移送給他就是新北是由新北地檢署這個主動偵辦嘛那顯然不是金管會移送嘛對啊那為什麼這兩個案子相差這麼多"},{"start":258.908,"end":268.076,"text":"主委你可能要了解清楚喔你剛上任喔我不會太過苛責啦但是顯有蹊蹺啦你看看1月30號請訴之後2月1號你們就開罰"},{"start":272.438,"end":297.854,"text":"一千兩百萬掏空案總共是十億而這兩天你們前天才公布說今年前五月銀行、證券、保險上市櫃公司總共開罰九千八百九十萬其中銀行最多銀行局最多銀行局當中金額最高的就是台中商銀很巧齁有沒有很巧一切都發生了很巧"},{"start":299.634,"end":322.695,"text":"這跟委員報告就是因為減掉機關要發動其實我們沒辦法控制我說這時間點有沒有很巧嘛主委這我沒辦法評論是不是巧合這一天起訴隔天你們就開罰沒有很巧嗎本席強烈建議你最好先了解清楚啦外面都說這可能是金管會在捕破網啦"},{"start":325.717,"end":349.271,"text":"我們再瞭解再跟委員報告我不希望再看到這麼巧的事件再發生主委但是我會持續關心第二件也是最近吵得沸沸揚揚這一個當初國泰金最大的股東萬寶開發他拿到全家現在第二大股東說要搶全家三席董事"},{"start":350.56,"end":372.438,"text":"第一個我要請教主委這也沒有牽扯到違反產經分離的原則第二個當初萬寶開發取得全家的股權的時候有強調存財務投資如果要派董事的話只派董事的話會跟金管會溝通這兩點就叫主委"},{"start":375.087,"end":399.699,"text":"謝謝委員其實我們在過去常提到產金分離產金分離的概念我們如果落實在我們的法規上有沒有違反這件事情沒有主要是我先跟委員說明一下產金分離是一個概念它不是一個法律的規定這個概念落實在我們兩個主要的法規上面一個就是說比如說金融機構的負責人不可以去兼任其他的非金融機構負責人"},{"start":400.919,"end":417.977,"text":"再來就是說我們的比如說比如金融機構投資比如像金融公司投資非金融相關事業的股權不可以超過一定比例比如說5%像金融公司他用這樣的方式來達到這個至於說產金分離是一個大家的概念其實產金分離的概念並不是一個說強制所以那這個案子是幾%?"},{"start":421.548,"end":449.001,"text":"這個部分主要是萬寶是國泰金控的大股東他不是國泰他不是我們納管的所謂的金融機構他是有延伸性但是他是一個大股東是沒錯所以說我們也有關心這件事情這個部分剛剛就至於說未來怎麼做的話我想說這個那局長這邊有關這個部分可不可以請局長再有沒有跟你溝通啊指派董事有沒有跟你溝通啊莊局長"},{"start":450.642,"end":478.476,"text":"報告委員 剛剛委員說的都對啦因為其實去年的時候我們就有找他來溝通對他確實告訴我們說因為他們沒有指派董事對現在又指派啦對 那所以我們當時是說如果您有任何要指派董事的時候要事先跟我們 讓我們知道因為當初就認為說他沒有指派董事其實就產經分離的精神而言其實是符合的啦"},{"start":479.056,"end":506.818,"text":"那現在可是如果說就產經分離你也知道全家有很多ATM嗎將來它如果砍敗在一起呢這請問一下有沒有分離啊對這應該就是就是算是利害關係人的利害關係人的交易可是利害關係人的交易在我們的不管是金控法或者是銀行法裡面其實只是要遵守那個利害關係人的程序而已局長我慎重提醒啦齁"},{"start":507.398,"end":528.368,"text":"他之前的承諾跟後面的行為恐怕不太一致要嚴加的監管主委也請你注意一下謝謝回到本階段主委我必須肯定你這次分四個階段而且你態度說要修法講得非常明確而且你也把本席長期以來所要說的差異化管理都納入了這個本席都予以肯定"},{"start":529.048,"end":554.641,"text":"但是對有一個部分的廣度監管的部分我還是覺得你稍前保守而剛剛談到的這個貪慮的部分本席不討論太多我談自律的部分明天就要成立了工會嘛 對不對對 是在成立工會當中我要問你的之前的王牌畢竟都有潛入一些弊案甚至畢竟的這個營運長還被收邀王牌也是如此類似這種這兩家都在25家裡面欸"},{"start":555.862,"end":568.267,"text":"你這兩家你要怎麼處理你有沒有暫停停止其營業內容你有沒有要求其撤銷其原來的這個法制聲明你有沒有做任何行政處分有沒有我看都沒有欸他們還會明天要籌組工會聽說畢竟還要當理事長欸"},{"start":575.578,"end":599.239,"text":"你不覺得這很奇怪嗎?你本來法尊聲明就是要讓他們洗白、給他們良民證講白點就這樣子剛剛那個涉犯事件是他們公司的前負責人當然我們也很關注明天他們大概就是法人啊、同一法人啊工會成立以後也是我們開始納管的很重要的步驟"},{"start":600.578,"end":618.474,"text":"主委 我提醒你喔 工會的成員以後是要訂定次率規範欸是的次率規範很關鍵欸是沒錯 這是我們也非常非常關注的如果一群啊 沒有洗白 有all day的業者的話 占的比例比較高你期待他弄出什麼樣的次率規範啊 主委"},{"start":619.435,"end":641.332,"text":"我請教你自律規範也要報主管機關來備查當然啊可是他文來文往他那個規範來規範去就是很小的面積的自我規範自律程度不足你不是管理上也很麻煩很困擾所以你要跟他講白我這一張良民證要發給你可以但是你如果犯了什麼錯良民證我就馬上可以收回來"},{"start":642.232,"end":656.722,"text":"這個我們會納入考慮就是說這部分未來自立規範的規定我們現在有初步的架構就是我們前面有頒布的指導原則這幾個原則其實就是國際上面納管VASP很重要的幾個原則我們希望充分的落實到這個自立規範裡面去"},{"start":658.151,"end":681.841,"text":"你寫了八點你寫了八點我本席都有在看這原則都要一一納入而且還要嚴格執行第二個你現在都是以國內的業者為主啦國內的業者為主剛剛我就是要問你一個很大的一個問題廣度監管你最好他stand by的還有61家的部分能夠納管的部分這避免檢察官持續在抱怨的只有入刑的考量這裡頭有兩個一個關鍵點"},{"start":683.322,"end":710.491,"text":"第一個我們現在大部分國內的這個消費者所交易的對象都是還是國際的這個平台啊對不對你下一步有沒有要納入國際的平台的可能性這也在我們的這個法規範圍之內但是他一樣要滿足我們現在的要求對如果有國際國外的業者你也不排斥嘛對不對這我們在法規裡面就已經都有規範因為你如果納入國外的這個B商的話你至少形成一個規範嘛以後國外的B商來這邊的話有一個遊戲規則嘛"},{"start":712.011,"end":727.802,"text":"落地就歸本國的監理範圍裡面最後我問你一點主席站起來最後一點金管會有沒有可能對這個必殺有沒有可能採取類似像鏈系交易、炒股還有包括擔任投顧的這些行為做一定程度的行政調查有沒有可能"},{"start":729.022,"end":757.834,"text":"這個齁 我們在那個專法裡面我們再來針對業務行為在這個規範我們現在初步就是洗錢防制的概念對 如果說將來在執法的規範上有多一個行政調查的話或許啊 這樣會比較妥適一點啦謝謝委員我想說在未來專法的時候我們可以來考慮對 用行政權進行規範的話將來的整個司法權的這個承擔的程度也比較不會那麼過度勞累啦我有充分的轉達這一個建清改的意見也請那個政次能夠回去說明一下"},{"start":758.215,"end":758.761,"text":"好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝委員"}]}}}}