{"id":153838,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153838","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd819b7a6eea21e44788a98b2dfa55713766cdd6f040307a1001a3a4d20856f634afc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:50:31 - 11:03:17","影片長度":"00:12:46","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法第七十條之一、第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等27人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等20人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（六）委員沈伯洋等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【第（四）至（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T10:50:31+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T11:03:17+08:00","duration":766,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":32,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-32"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":613,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時50分）謝謝主席，有請秘書長跟次長。"],["主席：麻煩秘書長、次長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：兩位辛苦了！今天兩個主題就教於兩位，第一個，今天的主題是科偵法的立法，到底在立法體例上我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇；第二個議題，我會繼續針針國會調查權的行使事項再一次就教於兩位。我們上週的排案跟審查已經確立科技偵查及保障法授權三大打詐的新武器，GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房、熱顯像儀可以測溫救人，這三大新型工具在委員會逐條審查中都確認是可以使用的新型武器，所以主體上是朝野一致、有共識的。在發動的程序上，如何能夠更強化對於人權的保障、對於通知當事人的作為，確實有一些小小的、還在釐清中的程序性問題，但是大方向上在上週的逐條審查大概都已經完備了，原本在野黨委員認為有爭議的偵查手段也都排除了，現在三大打詐利器入法，我剛剛聽了秘書長說的，司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向。","我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下、再說明一下本席的個人立場，我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論的最主要目的，它要執法有據，讓所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力，提升整個偵辦能夠定罰、判罰的基準，所以到底是要放在刑事訴訟法或是以專法為之？我認為這個事情沒有是非對錯，是一個政策面的抉擇，就是一個政策面的抉擇。在立法的體例上，其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體例，譬如說國民法官法，譬如說也在這次打詐四法當中的通訊保障及監察法，我看你們的報告裡頭還有把羈押法也放進去，所以體例上是有的，它不是一個唯一、不是一個新創事項。","第二個，在時程上，我個人認為這是關鍵，時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法，它畢竟是跨院際的嘛！對不對？司法院主管必須要會銜司法院，所以在過去司法及法制委員會也好，在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭，只要是跨院際，我們也常常argue啊！司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣，所以跨院際的修法，立法本身的修法期程就更為緩慢，實在來不及啦！我們要快速地打詐，要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快上路，讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈，所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是可以快速到位的。當然還有一個，科技偵查本身具備的特殊性，如果從偵查機關需求面的角度來講，用專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律體系架構，我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇，沒有好壞，沒有是非對錯，而且我要說，主要的條文內容我們上週在科偵法專法的逐條都已經幾乎90%是完成審查，所以未來在協商上，我也希望修法能夠可以快速到位，也就是用一個新法的方式來立法，我這樣的論述，兩位都接受嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：贊同。"],["吳委員思瑤：來，次長。"],["黃次長謀信：法務部也贊同。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以我個人是認為快、狠、準是我們現在要面對打詐最重要的事項，因此我希望趕快在朝野協商當中，各黨團協議出一個方向，我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的，在體例上、在時程上、在實務的需求上，它是更好的。","釐清了今天的主題，我還是要回到擴權法案，行政院已經提出覆議，然後總統核可了，已經在昨天送到立法院。我覺得網路上的公民朋友非常的關切，我個人會認為在未來覆議案的行使，甚或是未來的釋憲過程，這都是臺灣公民社會最好的一個民主教材，這都是讓全民一起來上一堂公民課，很多的年輕世代他們在網路上不斷地討論說，如果立法院不能好好討論就讓社會來討論。我認為這是這一次擴權法案的延長賽，在覆議或者是未來釋憲的過程當中，就讓公民來對話，讓公民針對這樣一個珍貴的民主教材，好好來進一步的思辨、論證。","但我也看到，針對通過了擴權法案之後，立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢？其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致。回到憲法的相關規定，憲法第六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力，以及釋字第585號跟第729號，都再再告訴了我們，立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予必要之輔助性權力，它必須跟著憲法第六十三條與立法院本身的議案相關，所以它與職務、職權有重大關聯者，並非包山包海，並非什麼都可以以查弊之名，無限上綱的來啟動調查。釋字第729號更清楚地告訴我們，立法院行使調查相關的職權，對於偵查中的案件，自不得向其調閱相關卷證，也就是對於偵辦中的案件，立法院的那一條線要劃得很清楚，我必須再一次地把憲法的精神說明跟論證。因為現在在野黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官，兩位的看法如何？為什麼立委說立法院要不要在修法之後，才說要不要來設調查官？"],["吳秘書長三龍：在司法院，我們司法行政的立場是共同的法律，大家共同遵守，就是說有憲法、法律，還有大法官釋字的相關解釋意旨，所以就按照這些綜合看怎麼處理，有些在我們司法行政大概也只能……"],["吳委員思瑤：司法院的立場就是尊重憲法的賦權嘛！對不對？調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院，檢調擁有的權力就是司法的權限嘛！","次長，既然有立委在討論立法院要不要成立調查官，是不是就足以來證明立法院沒有調查專業，立委本身在法律上、各方面，才要有設一個調查官之必要，你的看法呢？立法院有沒有比照檢察官的訓練、專業、調查的這種能耐？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，因為這涉及到大院的職權行使法，也非本部的職掌，本部的立場跟司法院一樣，我們就尊重大院的決定。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，你們都講得實在是很委婉，因為現在有藐視國會罪，都很委婉，我完全理解，站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場。但是釋字第585號也很清楚地說，特殊例外的情形，就特定事項之調查有委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時，就必須訂定特別法，就委任之目的、委任調查之範圍、受委任人之資格、選任、任期等人事組織事項、調查的權限等都必須有特別法的詳細規範，並藉以作為監督之基礎。換言之，如果立法院因應國會擴權法案的修法之後要增設調查官，這件事情本身要嘛就是二次修法，要嘛就要有特別的立法規定，我的解讀有沒有錯誤？不能以現在這個立法院職權行使法調查權的第四十六條、第四十七條到五十幾條，規定了之後馬上就自己天外飛來一筆，找了一群不知道有沒有調查能力的人，然後就來設調查官，專業的看法是什麼？藐視國會罪給你們的壓力很大，都不知道怎麼回答。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員剛剛提到的這一種就是說，有關的這些還是大家共同遵守啦，這些像憲法、法律，還有大法官會議解釋，這些都有規定看怎麼處理。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我的時間到了，我就ending在這裡，其實後面還有滿多地方沒有辦法論述，我點出這個問題，為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程，在立法院的調查過程，到底是要全程公開、透明，或是我們吳宗憲召委所說的，以他過去檢察官辦案的經驗，他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式，還是要有偵查不公開的狀況，然後不對媒體公開，這樣就有兩種不同的主張。所以說，這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權，其實它不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查的目的，所以在調查立場上如果是政治的企圖，先射箭再畫靶，這樣的調查權是好的嗎？而立法院正因為立委並沒有具備專業的查案能力，所以委員所說的，在野黨委員在論述的，是不是要有專業調查官設在立法院才會成為一個議題，然後就凸顯了這樣一個粗糙的修法完全沒有清楚的配套。當然還包括如果立法院同時啟動調查權的議案，涉及弊案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件，或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發，其實這某種程度都會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能，而且是一種無限的複循環。","我今天在這裡，對於這個議題，我希望社會持續的討論，在覆議案的行使過程，以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭，讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案，我們共同更去瞭解立法院的議事運作，更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立原則，還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權，也應當要有清楚的正當法律程序，應當要符合相當的比例原則，還有法律的明確性事項。這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的，我認為這也是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義，就是繼續討論，真相跟正義是會被釐清的。好，辛苦兩位，也謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請林思銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":340,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-32","speakers":["吳宗憲","沈伯洋","鍾佳濱","羅智強","傅崐萁","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","黃國昌","吳思瑤","林思銘","洪孟楷","翁曉玲"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第32次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)司法院、行政院函請審議「刑事訴訟法第七十條之一、第二百四十五條及第二百四\n十五條之一條文修正草案」案；(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案」案；\n(三)委員羅智強等27人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條條文修正草案」案；(四)委員吳宗憲等\n20人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部分條文草案」案；(五)委員鍾佳濱等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法增訂部\n分條文草案」案；(六)委員沈伯洋等18人擬具「刑事訴訟法第二百四十五條及第二百四十五條之\n一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136101_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"153838","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153838","tool":"pyannote","id":"153838-pyannote"},"job_id":"Kt7XA5yqlfKFMJ8L","queued_at":"2024-06-12 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\"start\": 763.888, \"end\": 763.908, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,159 --> 00:00:14,742\n謝謝主席有請秘書長跟次長麻煩秘書長、次長委員好兩位辛苦了今天兩個主題就交於兩位第一個當然今天的主題就是科證法的立法到底立法體力我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇第二個議題我繼續會針對我們的國會調查權的行使的事項再一次就交於兩位下一頁\n\n2\n00:00:40,828 --> 00:00:43,949\n條文修正草案案。我們上週的牌案跟審查已經確立了科技偵查及保障法的授權三大打炸的新武器GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房\n\n3\n00:00:56,474 --> 00:01:15,820\n然後熱顯像儀可以來測溫救人這三大的新型的工具在委員會主條審查當中都確認是可以使用的新型武器所以主體上是大家朝野是一致有共識的那對於發動的程序上如何能夠跟\n\n4\n00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:30,686\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n5\n00:01:33,807 --> 00:01:53,034\n所以說已經排除了原本也有在野黨委員所認為爭議的偵查手段都排除了那現在三大打架利器入法所以呢我個人認為我剛也聽了秘書長說的你們認為司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向下一頁\n\n6\n00:01:54,113 --> 00:02:21,918\n我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下再說明一下本席個人的立場我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論最主要的目的他要執法有據讓他所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力來提升整個偵辦能夠定罰判罰的基準所以呢到底是要放在刑事\n\n7\n00:02:23,278 --> 00:02:43,746\n訴訟法或是專法為之我認為這個事情是沒有是非對錯就是一個政策面的抉擇就是一個政策面的抉擇在立法的體力上其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體力比如說國民法官法\n\n8\n00:02:44,426 --> 00:02:58,202\n例如說也在這一次打炸司法當中的通訊保障及監察法好不好我看你們的報告裡頭還有把這個羈押法也放進去所以體力上是有的它不是一個唯一不是一個新創事項\n\n9\n00:02:59,984 --> 00:03:25,004\n二）在時程上我認為這是關鍵我個人認為時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法它畢竟是跨院計的嘛對不對你司法院主管你必須要會嫌司法院所以在過去司法法制委員會也好在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭只要是跨院計我們也常常argue啊司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣\n\n10\n00:03:25,965 --> 00:03:48,604\n所以跨院級的修法、立法本身它的修法期程就更為緩慢。現在沒戶期啦。我們要快速的去打詐,要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快來上路。讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈。所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是快速可以到位的。\n\n11\n00:03:49,785 --> 00:04:08,707\n當然還有一個科技偵查他本身具備的特殊性如果從偵查機關的需求面的角度來講那用一個專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律的體系架構我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇沒有好壞沒有是非對錯\n\n12\n00:04:10,129 --> 00:04:24,852\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五\n\n13\n00:04:35,592 --> 00:04:57,004\n法務部也贊同所以我個人是認為快、很準是我們現在要面對打架最重要的事項所以我希望趕快在朝野協商當中各黨團來協議出一個方向我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的在體力上、在時程上、在食物的需求上它是更好的下一頁\n\n14\n00:04:58,004 --> 00:04:59,585\n刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文\n\n15\n00:05:27,885 --> 00:05:48,949\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n\n16\n00:05:56,860 --> 00:06:08,954\n但我也看到針對通過了擴權法案之後立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢?其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致喔。下一頁。\n\n17\n00:06:10,717 --> 00:06:38,592\n回到憲法的相關規定憲法六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力以及釋字五八五號跟七二九號都再再告訴了我們立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予的所必要之輔助性權力他必須跟著憲法第六十七、六十三條立法院本身的議案相關\n\n18\n00:06:39,833 --> 00:06:54,770\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一\n\n19\n00:06:54,790 --> 00:07:14,615\n三十九號更清楚地告訴我們立法院行使調查相關的職權對於偵查中的案件自不得向其調閱相關卷證也就是對於偵辦中的案件立法院的那一條線要畫得很清楚我必須再一次地把憲法的精神再一次說明跟論證下一頁\n\n20\n00:07:16,502 --> 00:07:24,890\n所以說呢因為現在這個黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官兩位的看法如何\n\n21\n00:07:30,038 --> 00:07:45,620\n為什麼立委說立法院要不要在立法之後、修法之後才說要不要來設調查官?在司法院我們司法行政的立場是和這個共同的法律大家共同遵守\n\n22\n00:07:46,561 --> 00:08:03,512\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n\n23\n00:08:03,632 --> 00:08:25,533\n二）司法院的立場就尊重憲法的賦權嘛對不對?調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院那檢調擁有的權利就是司法的權限嘛來那次長既然有立委在討論說立法院要不要成立調查官是不是就是足以來證明立法院是沒有調查的專業立委本身在法律上各方面\n\n24\n00:08:26,454 --> 00:08:45,101\n才要有設一個調查官之必要。」你的看法呢?立法院有沒有比較檢察官的訓練專業調查的這種能耐?各位報告因為這涉及到是大院的職權刑事法也非本部的執掌那本部的立場跟司法院一樣我們就尊重大院的決定\n\n25\n00:08:46,343 --> 00:09:09,008\n你們都講的實在是很委婉因為現在有藐視國會罪都很委婉我完全理解站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場但是釋字585號也很清楚的說特殊例外的情形就特定事項之調查由委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時就必須來訂定特別法\n\n26\n00:09:10,968 --> 00:09:20,556\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十\n\n27\n00:09:40,472 --> 00:09:54,346\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、\n\n28\n00:10:01,687 --> 00:10:23,760\n二）委員羅智強等27人擬具«刑事訴訟法第二百二十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百\n\n29\n00:10:26,562 --> 00:10:39,427\n我點出這個問題為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程在立法院的調查過程到底是要全程公開透明或是我們吳宗憲、張偉說的他過去檢察官辦案的經驗他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式還是要有偵查不公開的狀況然後不對媒體公開就有兩種不同的主張所以說這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權\n\n30\n00:10:54,392 --> 00:10:57,498\n其實他不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查\n\n31\n00:11:00,957 --> 00:11:20,302\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n32\n00:11:29,384 --> 00:11:44,691\n當然還有包括如果立法院同時啟動了調查權的議案必案本身涉及必案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發\n\n33\n00:11:45,811 --> 00:12:13,748\n其實這都某種程度就會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能而且是一種無限的復循環我今天在這裡我想這個議題我希望社會持續的討論在復議案的行使的過程以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案我們共同更去了解立法院的議事運作更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立的原則\n\n34\n00:12:14,788 --> 00:12:43,908\n還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權他應當有清楚的政官法律程序應當要符合相當的比例原則還有法律的明確性的事項這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的也是我認為就是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義就是繼續討論真相跟正義是會被釐清的好辛苦兩位也謝謝教委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11159\t14742\t謝謝主席有請秘書長跟次長麻煩秘書長、次長委員好兩位辛苦了今天兩個主題就交於兩位第一個當然今天的主題就是科證法的立法到底立法體力我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇第二個議題我繼續會針對我們的國會調查權的行使的事項再一次就交於兩位下一頁\n40828\t43949\t條文修正草案案。我們上週的牌案跟審查已經確立了科技偵查及保障法的授權三大打炸的新武器GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房\n56474\t75820\t然後熱顯像儀可以來測溫救人這三大的新型的工具在委員會主條審查當中都確認是可以使用的新型武器所以主體上是大家朝野是一致有共識的那對於發動的程序上如何能夠跟\n77240\t90686\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n93807\t113034\t所以說已經排除了原本也有在野黨委員所認為爭議的偵查手段都排除了那現在三大打架利器入法所以呢我個人認為我剛也聽了秘書長說的你們認為司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向下一頁\n114113\t141918\t我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下再說明一下本席個人的立場我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論最主要的目的他要執法有據讓他所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力來提升整個偵辦能夠定罰判罰的基準所以呢到底是要放在刑事\n143278\t163746\t訴訟法或是專法為之我認為這個事情是沒有是非對錯就是一個政策面的抉擇就是一個政策面的抉擇在立法的體力上其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體力比如說國民法官法\n164426\t178202\t例如說也在這一次打炸司法當中的通訊保障及監察法好不好我看你們的報告裡頭還有把這個羈押法也放進去所以體力上是有的它不是一個唯一不是一個新創事項\n179984\t205004\t二）在時程上我認為這是關鍵我個人認為時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法它畢竟是跨院計的嘛對不對你司法院主管你必須要會嫌司法院所以在過去司法法制委員會也好在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭只要是跨院計我們也常常 argue啊司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣\n205965\t228604\t所以跨院級的修法、立法本身它的修法期程就更為緩慢。現在沒戶期啦。我們要快速的去打詐,要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快來上路。讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈。所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是快速可以到位的。\n229785\t248707\t當然還有一個科技偵查他本身具備的特殊性如果從偵查機關的需求面的角度來講那用一個專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律的體系架構我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇沒有好壞沒有是非對錯\n250129\t264852\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五\n275592\t297004\t法務部也贊同所以我個人是認為快、很準是我們現在要面對打架最重要的事項所以我希望趕快在朝野協商當中各黨團來協議出一個方向我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的在體力上、在時程上、在食物的需求上它是更好的下一頁\n298004\t299585\t刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文\n327885\t348949\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n356860\t368954\t但我也看到針對通過了擴權法案之後立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢?其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致喔。下一頁。\n370717\t398592\t回到憲法的相關規定憲法六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力以及釋字五八五號跟七二九號都再再告訴了我們立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予的所必要之輔助性權力他必須跟著憲法第六十七、六十三條立法院本身的議案相關\n399833\t414770\t三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一\n414790\t434615\t三十九號更清楚地告訴我們立法院行使調查相關的職權對於偵查中的案件自不得向其調閱相關卷證也就是對於偵辦中的案件立法院的那一條線要畫得很清楚我必須再一次地把憲法的精神再一次說明跟論證下一頁\n436502\t444890\t所以說呢因為現在這個黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官兩位的看法如何\n450038\t465620\t為什麼立委說立法院要不要在立法之後、修法之後才說要不要來設調查官?在司法院我們司法行政的立場是和這個共同的法律大家共同遵守\n466561\t483512\t三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n483632\t505533\t二）司法院的立場就尊重憲法的賦權嘛對不對?調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院那檢調擁有的權利就是司法的權限嘛來那次長既然有立委在討論說立法院要不要成立調查官是不是就是足以來證明立法院是沒有調查的專業立委本身在法律上各方面\n506454\t525101\t才要有設一個調查官之必要。」你的看法呢?立法院有沒有比較檢察官的訓練專業調查的這種能耐?各位報告因為這涉及到是大院的職權刑事法也非本部的執掌那本部的立場跟司法院一樣我們就尊重大院的決定\n526343\t549008\t你們都講的實在是很委婉因為現在有藐視國會罪都很委婉我完全理解站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場但是釋字585號也很清楚的說特殊例外的情形就特定事項之調查由委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時就必須來訂定特別法\n550968\t560556\t四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十\n580472\t594346\t三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、\n601687\t623760\t二）委員羅智強等27人擬具 «刑事訴訟法第二百二十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百\n626562\t639427\t我點出這個問題為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程在立法院的調查過程到底是要全程公開透明或是我們吳宗憲、張偉說的他過去檢察官辦案的經驗他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式還是要有偵查不公開的狀況然後不對媒體公開就有兩種不同的主張所以說這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權\n654392\t657498\t其實他不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查\n660957\t680302\t三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n689384\t704691\t當然還有包括如果立法院同時啟動了調查權的議案必案本身涉及必案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發\n705811\t733748\t其實這都某種程度就會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能而且是一種無限的復循環我今天在這裡我想這個議題我希望社會持續的討論在復議案的行使的過程以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案我們共同更去了解立法院的議事運作更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立的原則\n734788\t763908\t還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權他應當有清楚的政官法律程序應當要符合相當的比例原則還有法律的明確性的事項這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的也是我認為就是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義就是繼續討論真相跟正義是會被釐清的好辛苦兩位也謝謝教委\n764548\t764889\t四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第四百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請秘書長跟次長麻煩秘書長、次長委員好兩位辛苦了今天兩個主題就交於兩位第一個當然今天的主題就是科證法的立法到底立法體力我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇第二個議題我繼續會針對我們的國會調查權的行使的事項再一次就交於兩位下一頁\n條文修正草案案。我們上週的牌案跟審查已經確立了科技偵查及保障法的授權三大打炸的新武器GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房\n然後熱顯像儀可以來測溫救人這三大的新型的工具在委員會主條審查當中都確認是可以使用的新型武器所以主體上是大家朝野是一致有共識的那對於發動的程序上如何能夠跟\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n所以說已經排除了原本也有在野黨委員所認為爭議的偵查手段都排除了那現在三大打架利器入法所以呢我個人認為我剛也聽了秘書長說的你們認為司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向下一頁\n我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下再說明一下本席個人的立場我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論最主要的目的他要執法有據讓他所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力來提升整個偵辦能夠定罰判罰的基準所以呢到底是要放在刑事\n訴訟法或是專法為之我認為這個事情是沒有是非對錯就是一個政策面的抉擇就是一個政策面的抉擇在立法的體力上其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體力比如說國民法官法\n例如說也在這一次打炸司法當中的通訊保障及監察法好不好我看你們的報告裡頭還有把這個羈押法也放進去所以體力上是有的它不是一個唯一不是一個新創事項\n二）在時程上我認為這是關鍵我個人認為時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法它畢竟是跨院計的嘛對不對你司法院主管你必須要會嫌司法院所以在過去司法法制委員會也好在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭只要是跨院計我們也常常 argue啊司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣\n所以跨院級的修法、立法本身它的修法期程就更為緩慢。現在沒戶期啦。我們要快速的去打詐,要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快來上路。讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈。所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是快速可以到位的。\n當然還有一個科技偵查他本身具備的特殊性如果從偵查機關的需求面的角度來講那用一個專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律的體系架構我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇沒有好壞沒有是非對錯\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五\n法務部也贊同所以我個人是認為快、很準是我們現在要面對打架最重要的事項所以我希望趕快在朝野協商當中各黨團來協議出一個方向我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的在體力上、在時程上、在食物的需求上它是更好的下一頁\n刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n但我也看到針對通過了擴權法案之後立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢?其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致喔。下一頁。\n回到憲法的相關規定憲法六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力以及釋字五八五號跟七二九號都再再告訴了我們立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予的所必要之輔助性權力他必須跟著憲法第六十七、六十三條立法院本身的議案相關\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一\n三十九號更清楚地告訴我們立法院行使調查相關的職權對於偵查中的案件自不得向其調閱相關卷證也就是對於偵辦中的案件立法院的那一條線要畫得很清楚我必須再一次地把憲法的精神再一次說明跟論證下一頁\n所以說呢因為現在這個黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官兩位的看法如何\n為什麼立委說立法院要不要在立法之後、修法之後才說要不要來設調查官?在司法院我們司法行政的立場是和這個共同的法律大家共同遵守\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n二）司法院的立場就尊重憲法的賦權嘛對不對?調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院那檢調擁有的權利就是司法的權限嘛來那次長既然有立委在討論說立法院要不要成立調查官是不是就是足以來證明立法院是沒有調查的專業立委本身在法律上各方面\n才要有設一個調查官之必要。」你的看法呢?立法院有沒有比較檢察官的訓練專業調查的這種能耐?各位報告因為這涉及到是大院的職權刑事法也非本部的執掌那本部的立場跟司法院一樣我們就尊重大院的決定\n你們都講的實在是很委婉因為現在有藐視國會罪都很委婉我完全理解站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場但是釋字585號也很清楚的說特殊例外的情形就特定事項之調查由委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時就必須來訂定特別法\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、\n二）委員羅智強等27人擬具 «刑事訴訟法第二百二十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百\n我點出這個問題為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程在立法院的調查過程到底是要全程公開透明或是我們吳宗憲、張偉說的他過去檢察官辦案的經驗他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式還是要有偵查不公開的狀況然後不對媒體公開就有兩種不同的主張所以說這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權\n其實他不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n當然還有包括如果立法院同時啟動了調查權的議案必案本身涉及必案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發\n其實這都某種程度就會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能而且是一種無限的復循環我今天在這裡我想這個議題我希望社會持續的討論在復議案的行使的過程以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案我們共同更去了解立法院的議事運作更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立的原則\n還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權他應當有清楚的政官法律程序應當要符合相當的比例原則還有法律的明確性的事項這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的也是我認為就是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義就是繼續討論真相跟正義是會被釐清的好辛苦兩位也謝謝教委\n四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第四百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.159 --> 00:14.742\n謝謝主席有請秘書長跟次長麻煩秘書長、次長委員好兩位辛苦了今天兩個主題就交於兩位第一個當然今天的主題就是科證法的立法到底立法體力我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇第二個議題我繼續會針對我們的國會調查權的行使的事項再一次就交於兩位下一頁\n\n00:40.828 --> 00:43.949\n條文修正草案案。我們上週的牌案跟審查已經確立了科技偵查及保障法的授權三大打炸的新武器GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房\n\n00:56.474 --> 01:15.820\n然後熱顯像儀可以來測溫救人這三大的新型的工具在委員會主條審查當中都確認是可以使用的新型武器所以主體上是大家朝野是一致有共識的那對於發動的程序上如何能夠跟\n\n01:17.240 --> 01:30.686\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n01:33.807 --> 01:53.034\n所以說已經排除了原本也有在野黨委員所認為爭議的偵查手段都排除了那現在三大打架利器入法所以呢我個人認為我剛也聽了秘書長說的你們認為司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向下一頁\n\n01:54.113 --> 02:21.918\n我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下再說明一下本席個人的立場我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論最主要的目的他要執法有據讓他所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力來提升整個偵辦能夠定罰判罰的基準所以呢到底是要放在刑事\n\n02:23.278 --> 02:43.746\n訴訟法或是專法為之我認為這個事情是沒有是非對錯就是一個政策面的抉擇就是一個政策面的抉擇在立法的體力上其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體力比如說國民法官法\n\n02:44.426 --> 02:58.202\n例如說也在這一次打炸司法當中的通訊保障及監察法好不好我看你們的報告裡頭還有把這個羈押法也放進去所以體力上是有的它不是一個唯一不是一個新創事項\n\n02:59.984 --> 03:25.004\n二）在時程上我認為這是關鍵我個人認為時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法它畢竟是跨院計的嘛對不對你司法院主管你必須要會嫌司法院所以在過去司法法制委員會也好在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭只要是跨院計我們也常常argue啊司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣\n\n03:25.965 --> 03:48.604\n所以跨院級的修法、立法本身它的修法期程就更為緩慢。現在沒戶期啦。我們要快速的去打詐,要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快來上路。讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈。所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是快速可以到位的。\n\n03:49.785 --> 04:08.707\n當然還有一個科技偵查他本身具備的特殊性如果從偵查機關的需求面的角度來講那用一個專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律的體系架構我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇沒有好壞沒有是非對錯\n\n04:10.129 --> 04:24.852\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五\n\n04:35.592 --> 04:57.004\n法務部也贊同所以我個人是認為快、很準是我們現在要面對打架最重要的事項所以我希望趕快在朝野協商當中各黨團來協議出一個方向我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的在體力上、在時程上、在食物的需求上它是更好的下一頁\n\n04:58.004 --> 04:59.585\n刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文\n\n05:27.885 --> 05:48.949\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n\n05:56.860 --> 06:08.954\n但我也看到針對通過了擴權法案之後立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢?其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致喔。下一頁。\n\n06:10.717 --> 06:38.592\n回到憲法的相關規定憲法六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力以及釋字五八五號跟七二九號都再再告訴了我們立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予的所必要之輔助性權力他必須跟著憲法第六十七、六十三條立法院本身的議案相關\n\n06:39.833 --> 06:54.770\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一\n\n06:54.790 --> 07:14.615\n三十九號更清楚地告訴我們立法院行使調查相關的職權對於偵查中的案件自不得向其調閱相關卷證也就是對於偵辦中的案件立法院的那一條線要畫得很清楚我必須再一次地把憲法的精神再一次說明跟論證下一頁\n\n07:16.502 --> 07:24.890\n所以說呢因為現在這個黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官兩位的看法如何\n\n07:30.038 --> 07:45.620\n為什麼立委說立法院要不要在立法之後、修法之後才說要不要來設調查官?在司法院我們司法行政的立場是和這個共同的法律大家共同遵守\n\n07:46.561 --> 08:03.512\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第\n\n08:03.632 --> 08:25.533\n二）司法院的立場就尊重憲法的賦權嘛對不對?調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院那檢調擁有的權利就是司法的權限嘛來那次長既然有立委在討論說立法院要不要成立調查官是不是就是足以來證明立法院是沒有調查的專業立委本身在法律上各方面\n\n08:26.454 --> 08:45.101\n才要有設一個調查官之必要。」你的看法呢?立法院有沒有比較檢察官的訓練專業調查的這種能耐?各位報告因為這涉及到是大院的職權刑事法也非本部的執掌那本部的立場跟司法院一樣我們就尊重大院的決定\n\n08:46.343 --> 09:09.008\n你們都講的實在是很委婉因為現在有藐視國會罪都很委婉我完全理解站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場但是釋字585號也很清楚的說特殊例外的情形就特定事項之調查由委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時就必須來訂定特別法\n\n09:10.968 --> 09:20.556\n四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十\n\n09:40.472 --> 09:54.346\n三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、\n\n10:01.687 --> 10:23.760\n二）委員羅智強等27人擬具«刑事訴訟法第二百二十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百\n\n10:26.562 --> 10:39.427\n我點出這個問題為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程在立法院的調查過程到底是要全程公開透明或是我們吳宗憲、張偉說的他過去檢察官辦案的經驗他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式還是要有偵查不公開的狀況然後不對媒體公開就有兩種不同的主張所以說這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權\n\n10:54.392 --> 10:57.498\n其實他不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查\n\n11:00.957 --> 11:20.302\n三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三\n\n11:29.384 --> 11:44.691\n當然還有包括如果立法院同時啟動了調查權的議案必案本身涉及必案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發\n\n11:45.811 --> 12:13.748\n其實這都某種程度就會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能而且是一種無限的復循環我今天在這裡我想這個議題我希望社會持續的討論在復議案的行使的過程以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案我們共同更去了解立法院的議事運作更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立的原則\n\n12:14.788 --> 12:43.908\n還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權他應當有清楚的政官法律程序應當要符合相當的比例原則還有法律的明確性的事項這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的也是我認為就是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義就是繼續討論真相跟正義是會被釐清的好辛苦兩位也謝謝教委\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.159,"end":14.742,"text":"謝謝主席有請秘書長跟次長麻煩秘書長、次長委員好兩位辛苦了今天兩個主題就交於兩位第一個當然今天的主題就是科證法的立法到底立法體力我們要做出什麼樣的抉擇第二個議題我繼續會針對我們的國會調查權的行使的事項再一次就交於兩位下一頁"},{"start":40.828,"end":43.949,"text":"條文修正草案案。我們上週的牌案跟審查已經確立了科技偵查及保障法的授權三大打炸的新武器GPS來追車手、M化車來定位機房"},{"start":56.474,"end":75.82,"text":"然後熱顯像儀可以來測溫救人這三大的新型的工具在委員會主條審查當中都確認是可以使用的新型武器所以主體上是大家朝野是一致有共識的那對於發動的程序上如何能夠跟"},{"start":77.24,"end":90.686,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":93.807,"end":113.034,"text":"所以說已經排除了原本也有在野黨委員所認為爭議的偵查手段都排除了那現在三大打架利器入法所以呢我個人認為我剛也聽了秘書長說的你們認為司法院認為立專法是一個好的方向下一頁"},{"start":114.113,"end":141.918,"text":"我今天要特別在這裡再釐清一下再說明一下本席個人的立場我認為讓科技偵查執法有據是我們討論最主要的目的他要執法有據讓他所有偵測的證據都具有證據的效力來提升整個偵辦能夠定罰判罰的基準所以呢到底是要放在刑事"},{"start":143.278,"end":163.746,"text":"訴訟法或是專法為之我認為這個事情是沒有是非對錯就是一個政策面的抉擇就是一個政策面的抉擇在立法的體力上其實過去以刑事程序特別法來作為這樣子的立法也有相關的體力比如說國民法官法"},{"start":164.426,"end":178.202,"text":"例如說也在這一次打炸司法當中的通訊保障及監察法好不好我看你們的報告裡頭還有把這個羈押法也放進去所以體力上是有的它不是一個唯一不是一個新創事項"},{"start":179.984,"end":205.004,"text":"二）在時程上我認為這是關鍵我個人認為時程上如果要透過刑事訴訟法它畢竟是跨院計的嘛對不對你司法院主管你必須要會嫌司法院所以在過去司法法制委員會也好在立法院立法修法的經驗裡頭只要是跨院計我們也常常 argue啊司法院跟法務部的立場又不一樣"},{"start":205.965,"end":228.604,"text":"所以跨院級的修法、立法本身它的修法期程就更為緩慢。現在沒戶期啦。我們要快速的去打詐,要讓科技偵查的新方法可以趕快來上路。讓道高一尺可以破除魔高一丈。所以我也務實的認為特別法在時程上是快速可以到位的。"},{"start":229.785,"end":248.707,"text":"當然還有一個科技偵查他本身具備的特殊性如果從偵查機關的需求面的角度來講那用一個專法是有助於建立一個專屬的法律的體系架構我個人認為這是一個政策的抉擇沒有好壞沒有是非對錯"},{"start":250.129,"end":264.852,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五"},{"start":275.592,"end":297.004,"text":"法務部也贊同所以我個人是認為快、很準是我們現在要面對打架最重要的事項所以我希望趕快在朝野協商當中各黨團來協議出一個方向我個人傾向認為立專法是需要的在體力上、在時程上、在食物的需求上它是更好的下一頁"},{"start":298.004,"end":299.585,"text":"刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文修正草案．刑事訴訟法部分條文"},{"start":327.885,"end":348.949,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第"},{"start":356.86,"end":368.954,"text":"但我也看到針對通過了擴權法案之後立法院到底如何來行使調查權呢?其實連國民黨內部的意見也不一致喔。下一頁。"},{"start":370.717,"end":398.592,"text":"回到憲法的相關規定憲法六十三條規範立法院的幾大權力以及釋字五八五號跟七二九號都再再告訴了我們立法院行使的調查權是憲法所賦予的所必要之輔助性權力他必須跟著憲法第六十七、六十三條立法院本身的議案相關"},{"start":399.833,"end":414.77,"text":"三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一、第十五條之一"},{"start":414.79,"end":434.615,"text":"三十九號更清楚地告訴我們立法院行使調查相關的職權對於偵查中的案件自不得向其調閱相關卷證也就是對於偵辦中的案件立法院的那一條線要畫得很清楚我必須再一次地把憲法的精神再一次說明跟論證下一頁"},{"start":436.502,"end":444.89,"text":"所以說呢因為現在這個黨有委員說是不是要在立法院設調查官兩位的看法如何"},{"start":450.038,"end":465.62,"text":"為什麼立委說立法院要不要在立法之後、修法之後才說要不要來設調查官?在司法院我們司法行政的立場是和這個共同的法律大家共同遵守"},{"start":466.561,"end":483.512,"text":"三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第"},{"start":483.632,"end":505.533,"text":"二）司法院的立場就尊重憲法的賦權嘛對不對?調查權該屬於監察院的就監察院那檢調擁有的權利就是司法的權限嘛來那次長既然有立委在討論說立法院要不要成立調查官是不是就是足以來證明立法院是沒有調查的專業立委本身在法律上各方面"},{"start":506.454,"end":525.101,"text":"才要有設一個調查官之必要。」你的看法呢?立法院有沒有比較檢察官的訓練專業調查的這種能耐?各位報告因為這涉及到是大院的職權刑事法也非本部的執掌那本部的立場跟司法院一樣我們就尊重大院的決定"},{"start":526.343,"end":549.008,"text":"你們都講的實在是很委婉因為現在有藐視國會罪都很委婉我完全理解站在憲法的角度就是我們共同的立場但是釋字585號也很清楚的說特殊例外的情形就特定事項之調查由委任非立法委員之人士來協助調查之必要時就必須來訂定特別法"},{"start":550.968,"end":560.556,"text":"四十條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、四十五條之一、四十五條之一、五十五條之一、六十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、七十五條之一、八十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十五條之一、九十"},{"start":580.472,"end":594.346,"text":"三十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、"},{"start":601.687,"end":623.76,"text":"二）委員羅智強等27人擬具 «刑事訴訟法第二百二十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百"},{"start":626.562,"end":639.427,"text":"我點出這個問題為什麼在野黨的委員對於在調查的過程在立法院的調查過程到底是要全程公開透明或是我們吳宗憲、張偉說的他過去檢察官辦案的經驗他認為要有一個檢察官辦案的模式還是要有偵查不公開的狀況然後不對媒體公開就有兩種不同的主張所以說這樣一個政治需求大於實質功能的國會調查權"},{"start":654.392,"end":657.498,"text":"其實他不折不扣的政治目的是大於實質的所謂調查"},{"start":660.957,"end":680.302,"text":"三十四條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第二百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第三"},{"start":689.384,"end":704.691,"text":"當然還有包括如果立法院同時啟動了調查權的議案必案本身涉及必案本身就是你們檢調偵查中的案件或者是立法院的調查結束之後有人去向檢方告發"},{"start":705.811,"end":733.748,"text":"其實這都某種程度就會變相成為政治施壓司法的一種可能而且是一種無限的復循環我今天在這裡我想這個議題我希望社會持續的討論在復議案的行使的過程以及大法官釋憲的過程裡頭讓社會從這一次的國會擴權法案我們共同更去了解立法院的議事運作更去理解憲法所授權的五院的權力分立的原則"},{"start":734.788,"end":763.908,"text":"還有立法院縱使應當擁有調查權他應當有清楚的政官法律程序應當要符合相當的比例原則還有法律的明確性的事項這些都是社會好好對話非常重要的標的也是我認為就是這一次國會擴權法案通過之後的政治延長賽所帶給社會正面的意義就是繼續討論真相跟正義是會被釐清的好辛苦兩位也謝謝教委"},{"start":764.548,"end":764.889,"text":"四十五條之一、第三百四十五條之一、第四百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之一、第八百四十五條之"}]}}}}