{"id":153861,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153861","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81901f3599f8395fa7e182e407f268492bcf1306821ff1b0f8149d2664fa287e6015ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"11:56:49 - 12:02:02","影片長度":"00:05:13","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、法務部、內政部警政署就「《洗錢防制法》修正草案與《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》之制定對於防制虛擬資產及交易業務事業（VASP）淪為詐騙工具」、金融監督管理委員會就「虛擬資產專法制定進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T11:56:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T12:02:02+08:00","duration":313,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":853,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（11時56分）謝謝主席，有請金管會彭金隆主委。"],["主席：有請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委好。雖然今天的題目是說VASP淪為詐騙工具，但我們認為這有一點污名的感覺啦！本席相信官員也不是這樣想的，就像汽車可以拿來作案，也可能淪為詐騙工具，所有東西都有可能被惡意使用啦！其實虛擬貨幣就技術而言都是中立的，本席必須幫科學、技術說話。","當然，剛才的印象也非常深刻，本席相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性，但是針對虛擬資產以及交易事業VASP的規範，我們也必須擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力。但是剛才您有提到，非常尊重明天會正式成立的公會，本席也予以讚賞和贊同，是不是給您一點時間分享一下，公會加上主管機關，怎麼樣做一個平衡？是不是一個好的作法？也請您說明一下為什麼公會非常重要？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。金管會過去對市場的監理就有一套模式，我先舉例，像銀行，我們有完善的法令，但是也有公會在運作，當然前提是它必須是納管的單位……"],["葛委員如鈞：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：所以我們剛才也向委員會報告，我們初步是先用洗錢防制法切入，再來我們希望它籌組公會，公會是一個自律組織，它不是一個法律約束，但是我們身為主管機關會強力監督。再來第三階段是輔以洗錢防制法，課以刑責、加重管理，最後我們會有專法來處理這件事情。"],["葛委員如鈞：是，很好，剛好這也是本席要問的。根據報告內容，金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範，而且相關規範要經金管會核准，表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束，積極自我管理，有相關的機制保護消費者。您剛才也提到，第三階段之後有登記制，也要符合洗錢防制法，而且洗錢防制法又有刑罰的標準。所以本席想請教一下主委，既然已經有自律規範，明天開始也有公會，那麼站在主管機關的立場，為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間驗證它的可能性，而要急於推動專法進行管控呢？是不是可以稍微回應一下？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。其實剛才委員說的專法應該是第四階段，按照時程，最快大概是明年上半年才會報院，接下來還要經過行政院審查，然後送到立法院審查，凝聚共識，我覺得會有一段很長的時間，在這個期間，我們不能不管打詐，所以我們先用洗錢防制法第二條修正案去做，但是我們也希望自律規範能趕快上路，用多方的方式彌補這段時間的空窗。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，謝謝主委。我們一樣也是有共識啦！公私協作可以有效平衡防弊與興利的目標，這一點本席相信我們都是非常重視的。您今天的報告也提到聯防通報、快速返還遭詐欺款項等等機制，這樣確實能夠提高防詐的效果，但是需要各方的高度協同。","請教一下主委，你們在實施時，如何確保相關單位能夠無縫合作？例如警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間。對此，金管會有沒有關於內部教育或者技術、金流分析的工具？尤其是虛擬的金流，有沒有掌握一些具體的技術、工具？實施的方案和時間表如何？您是否認同本席的說法？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，這個監管對我們來說是很大的挑戰。我也不諱言，金管會的資源，從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理，確實需要一段時間的調整，但是我們過去長期在推動金融科技發展的時候也累積了一些資源，未來我們會朝這個方向發展。至於剛才說的，我們需要補強的地方，我們也會加強補強，畢竟這已經是確定的趨勢，我們就要勇於面對。"],["葛委員如鈞：是。各國關於虛擬金流的分析，還有防詐的工具、技術，其實都有很深的著力，臺灣業者的能力也非常強，希望能夠持續做到公私協力。","最後，本席再次強調，虛擬資產作為一種新興科技，其實具備極大的發展潛力，因為它不需要圈地，不需要過多的水、電，現在已經有新的技術，所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展，不要一味強化監管。這個部分本席有看到您的精神，本席予以支持，請金管會持續平衡防弊與興利，給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝，謝謝指正。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢。","現在請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","接著請王世堅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-17","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","李彥秀","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林楚茵","李坤城","葛如鈞","王世堅","羅明才","黃秀芳","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、法務部、內政部警政署就「《洗錢防制法》修正草案\n與《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例》之制定對於防制虛擬資產及交易業務事業（ 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00:00:22,919\n當然剛剛也非常印象深刻\n\n3\n00:00:38,539 --> 00:01:02,739\n您我相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性也要針對虛擬資產及交易事業、VASP的規範我們也必須要擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力但剛剛您有提到非常尊重這個明天會正式成立的這個工會我也予以讚賞跟贊同那是不是給您一點時間來分享一下\n\n4\n00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:26,699\n用工會加上我們的這個主管機關怎麼樣來做一個平衡是不是一個好的做法是不是也能讓你說明一下為什麼工會其實非常的重要謝謝委員我想我們在金管會在過去對市場的監理呢就有一套模式像比如說我就先舉例像我們銀行我們有完善的法令但是也有工會在運作\n\n5\n00:01:27,620 --> 00:01:53,722\n那當然這個前提是它必須要是一個納管的單位對所以我們想說我們剛剛也跟委員會報告我們先初步呢先用《洗錢防制法》切入對然後再來呢我們希望它籌組工會工會是個自律組織它不是個法律約束但是我們是身為主管機關我們會強力的監督再來我們接下來第三階段服役《洗錢防制法》裡面可以行責加重這個管理最後我們有個專法來處理這件事情\n\n6\n00:01:55,163 --> 00:02:22,042\n那剛好也是我要問的根據報告內容金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範而且相關規範要經金管會核准表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束、積極自我管理有相關的機制來保護消費者您剛才也提到第三階段之後有登記制以及也要符合《洗錢防制法》以及《洗錢防制法》裡頭又有刑罰的標準\n\n7\n00:02:24,184 --> 00:02:39,820\n所以我想請教一下主委既然已經有自律規範也有工會從明天開始那麼正在主管機關的立場為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間來驗證它的可能性而要急於推動專法來進行管控呢是不是可以稍微回應一下\n\n8\n00:02:40,420 --> 00:03:00,001\n謝謝其實剛才委員講的專法應該是第四階段是那等於說我們按照的時程最快我們大概就是明年的上半年才會提到報院報院呢那接下來還要經過院的審查送到大院來審查凝聚共事我覺得會有一段很長的時間那在這個中間我們打詐不能\n\n9\n00:03:00,882 --> 00:03:10,951\n不能不管所以我們先用《洗錢防制法》第2條修正去做但是我們也希望說我們的自律規範能趕快上路能夠用多方的方式來彌補這段時間的空窗\n\n10\n00:03:11,482 --> 00:03:30,772\n很好謝謝主委我想我們一樣也是有共識公司協作可以有效平衡防弊與新利的目標這一點我相信我們都是非常重視的那您今天的報告也提到聯防通報的機制快速返還招詐欺款項等等的機制這個確實能夠提高防詐的效果\n\n11\n00:03:31,152 --> 00:03:58,981\n但需要各方的高度協同想請教一下主委在實施上如何確保相關的比如說警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間能夠無縫的合作金管會對此有沒有一些關於內部教育或者是技術、金流分析的工具尤其是虛擬的金流有沒有一些具體的技術的掌握、工具的掌握實施的方案和時間表您是否認同我這一塊說法\n\n12\n00:04:00,101 --> 00:04:27,384\n當然這個監管對我們來講是很大的挑戰就是我也不會沿金管會的資源從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理確實要一段的這個調整但是我們過去在長期在推動金融科技發展的時候我們也累積了一些資源那我想說未來我們會朝這個方向來發展那至於說裡面剛才講我們需要補強的地方我們會來加強補強因為畢竟這是已經是確定的趨勢我們就要勇於面對\n\n13\n00:04:27,924 --> 00:04:50,442\n我想各國關於這個虛擬金流的分析還有防詐的工具技術其實都有很深的著力臺灣的業者其實也這個能力非常強也希望能夠持續的做到公司協力那最後我再次強調啦虛擬資產作為一種新興科技它其實具備極大的發展潛力因為它不需要圈地不需要過多的水\n\n14\n00:04:50,802 --> 00:05:08,333\n也不需要過多的電到目前為止現在已經有新的技術了所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展不要一味的強化監管這個我有看到您的精神我予以支持請監管會持續的平衡防弊與新力給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t21758\t金融主委有請彭主委委員好主委好我想今天雖然我們的這個題目有說VASP淪為詐騙工具但我們認為這有一點汙名的感覺我也相信這個官員也不是這樣想的汽車也可以拿來做這個作案\n22278\t22919\t當然剛剛也非常印象深刻\n38539\t62739\t您我相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性也要針對虛擬資產及交易事業、VASP的規範我們也必須要擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力但剛剛您有提到非常尊重這個明天會正式成立的這個工會我也予以讚賞跟贊同那是不是給您一點時間來分享一下\n63439\t86699\t用工會加上我們的這個主管機關怎麼樣來做一個平衡是不是一個好的做法是不是也能讓你說明一下為什麼工會其實非常的重要謝謝委員我想我們在金管會在過去對市場的監理呢就有一套模式像比如說我就先舉例像我們銀行我們有完善的法令但是也有工會在運作\n87620\t113722\t那當然這個前提是它必須要是一個納管的單位對所以我們想說我們剛剛也跟委員會報告我們先初步呢先用《洗錢防制法》切入對然後再來呢我們希望它籌組工會工會是個自律組織它不是個法律約束但是我們是身為主管機關我們會強力的監督再來我們接下來第三階段服役《洗錢防制法》裡面可以行責加重這個管理最後我們有個專法來處理這件事情\n115163\t142042\t那剛好也是我要問的根據報告內容金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範而且相關規範要經金管會核准表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束、積極自我管理有相關的機制來保護消費者您剛才也提到第三階段之後有登記制以及也要符合《洗錢防制法》以及《洗錢防制法》裡頭又有刑罰的標準\n144184\t159820\t所以我想請教一下主委既然已經有自律規範也有工會從明天開始那麼正在主管機關的立場為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間來驗證它的可能性而要急於推動專法來進行管控呢是不是可以稍微回應一下\n160420\t180001\t謝謝 其實剛才委員講的專法應該是第四階段是那等於說我們按照的時程最快我們大概就是明年的上半年才會提到報院報院呢那接下來還要經過院的審查送到大院來審查凝聚共事我覺得會有一段很長的時間那在這個中間我們打詐不能\n180882\t190951\t不能不管所以我們先用《洗錢防制法》第2條修正去做但是我們也希望說我們的自律規範能趕快上路能夠用多方的方式來彌補這段時間的空窗\n191482\t210772\t很好 謝謝主委我想我們一樣也是有共識公司協作可以有效平衡防弊與新利的目標這一點我相信我們都是非常重視的那您今天的報告也提到聯防通報的機制快速返還招詐欺款項等等的機制這個確實能夠提高防詐的效果\n211152\t238981\t但需要各方的高度協同想請教一下主委在實施上如何確保相關的比如說警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間能夠無縫的合作金管會對此有沒有一些關於內部教育或者是技術、金流分析的工具尤其是虛擬的金流有沒有一些具體的技術的掌握、工具的掌握實施的方案和時間表您是否認同我這一塊說法\n240101\t267384\t當然這個監管對我們來講是很大的挑戰就是我也不會沿金管會的資源從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理確實要一段的這個調整但是我們過去在長期在推動金融科技發展的時候我們也累積了一些資源那我想說未來我們會朝這個方向來發展那至於說裡面剛才講我們需要補強的地方我們會來加強補強因為畢竟這是已經是確定的趨勢我們就要勇於面對\n267924\t290442\t我想各國關於這個虛擬金流的分析還有防詐的工具技術其實都有很深的著力臺灣的業者其實也這個能力非常強也希望能夠持續的做到公司協力那最後我再次強調啦虛擬資產作為一種新興科技它其實具備極大的發展潛力因為它不需要圈地不需要過多的水\n290802\t308333\t也不需要過多的電到目前為止現在已經有新的技術了所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展不要一味的強化監管這個我有看到您的精神我予以支持請監管會持續的平衡防弊與新力給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間\n","txt":"金融主委有請彭主委委員好主委好我想今天雖然我們的這個題目有說VASP淪為詐騙工具但我們認為這有一點汙名的感覺我也相信這個官員也不是這樣想的汽車也可以拿來做這個作案\n當然剛剛也非常印象深刻\n您我相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性也要針對虛擬資產及交易事業、VASP的規範我們也必須要擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力但剛剛您有提到非常尊重這個明天會正式成立的這個工會我也予以讚賞跟贊同那是不是給您一點時間來分享一下\n用工會加上我們的這個主管機關怎麼樣來做一個平衡是不是一個好的做法是不是也能讓你說明一下為什麼工會其實非常的重要謝謝委員我想我們在金管會在過去對市場的監理呢就有一套模式像比如說我就先舉例像我們銀行我們有完善的法令但是也有工會在運作\n那當然這個前提是它必須要是一個納管的單位對所以我們想說我們剛剛也跟委員會報告我們先初步呢先用《洗錢防制法》切入對然後再來呢我們希望它籌組工會工會是個自律組織它不是個法律約束但是我們是身為主管機關我們會強力的監督再來我們接下來第三階段服役《洗錢防制法》裡面可以行責加重這個管理最後我們有個專法來處理這件事情\n那剛好也是我要問的根據報告內容金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範而且相關規範要經金管會核准表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束、積極自我管理有相關的機制來保護消費者您剛才也提到第三階段之後有登記制以及也要符合《洗錢防制法》以及《洗錢防制法》裡頭又有刑罰的標準\n所以我想請教一下主委既然已經有自律規範也有工會從明天開始那麼正在主管機關的立場為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間來驗證它的可能性而要急於推動專法來進行管控呢是不是可以稍微回應一下\n謝謝 其實剛才委員講的專法應該是第四階段是那等於說我們按照的時程最快我們大概就是明年的上半年才會提到報院報院呢那接下來還要經過院的審查送到大院來審查凝聚共事我覺得會有一段很長的時間那在這個中間我們打詐不能\n不能不管所以我們先用《洗錢防制法》第2條修正去做但是我們也希望說我們的自律規範能趕快上路能夠用多方的方式來彌補這段時間的空窗\n很好 謝謝主委我想我們一樣也是有共識公司協作可以有效平衡防弊與新利的目標這一點我相信我們都是非常重視的那您今天的報告也提到聯防通報的機制快速返還招詐欺款項等等的機制這個確實能夠提高防詐的效果\n但需要各方的高度協同想請教一下主委在實施上如何確保相關的比如說警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間能夠無縫的合作金管會對此有沒有一些關於內部教育或者是技術、金流分析的工具尤其是虛擬的金流有沒有一些具體的技術的掌握、工具的掌握實施的方案和時間表您是否認同我這一塊說法\n當然這個監管對我們來講是很大的挑戰就是我也不會沿金管會的資源從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理確實要一段的這個調整但是我們過去在長期在推動金融科技發展的時候我們也累積了一些資源那我想說未來我們會朝這個方向來發展那至於說裡面剛才講我們需要補強的地方我們會來加強補強因為畢竟這是已經是確定的趨勢我們就要勇於面對\n我想各國關於這個虛擬金流的分析還有防詐的工具技術其實都有很深的著力臺灣的業者其實也這個能力非常強也希望能夠持續的做到公司協力那最後我再次強調啦虛擬資產作為一種新興科技它其實具備極大的發展潛力因為它不需要圈地不需要過多的水\n也不需要過多的電到目前為止現在已經有新的技術了所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展不要一味的強化監管這個我有看到您的精神我予以支持請監管會持續的平衡防弊與新力給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:21.758\n金融主委有請彭主委委員好主委好我想今天雖然我們的這個題目有說VASP淪為詐騙工具但我們認為這有一點汙名的感覺我也相信這個官員也不是這樣想的汽車也可以拿來做這個作案\n\n00:22.278 --> 00:22.919\n當然剛剛也非常印象深刻\n\n00:38.539 --> 01:02.739\n您我相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性也要針對虛擬資產及交易事業、VASP的規範我們也必須要擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力但剛剛您有提到非常尊重這個明天會正式成立的這個工會我也予以讚賞跟贊同那是不是給您一點時間來分享一下\n\n01:03.439 --> 01:26.699\n用工會加上我們的這個主管機關怎麼樣來做一個平衡是不是一個好的做法是不是也能讓你說明一下為什麼工會其實非常的重要謝謝委員我想我們在金管會在過去對市場的監理呢就有一套模式像比如說我就先舉例像我們銀行我們有完善的法令但是也有工會在運作\n\n01:27.620 --> 01:53.722\n那當然這個前提是它必須要是一個納管的單位對所以我們想說我們剛剛也跟委員會報告我們先初步呢先用《洗錢防制法》切入對然後再來呢我們希望它籌組工會工會是個自律組織它不是個法律約束但是我們是身為主管機關我們會強力的監督再來我們接下來第三階段服役《洗錢防制法》裡面可以行責加重這個管理最後我們有個專法來處理這件事情\n\n01:55.163 --> 02:22.042\n那剛好也是我要問的根據報告內容金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範而且相關規範要經金管會核准表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束、積極自我管理有相關的機制來保護消費者您剛才也提到第三階段之後有登記制以及也要符合《洗錢防制法》以及《洗錢防制法》裡頭又有刑罰的標準\n\n02:24.184 --> 02:39.820\n所以我想請教一下主委既然已經有自律規範也有工會從明天開始那麼正在主管機關的立場為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間來驗證它的可能性而要急於推動專法來進行管控呢是不是可以稍微回應一下\n\n02:40.420 --> 03:00.001\n謝謝其實剛才委員講的專法應該是第四階段是那等於說我們按照的時程最快我們大概就是明年的上半年才會提到報院報院呢那接下來還要經過院的審查送到大院來審查凝聚共事我覺得會有一段很長的時間那在這個中間我們打詐不能\n\n03:00.882 --> 03:10.951\n不能不管所以我們先用《洗錢防制法》第2條修正去做但是我們也希望說我們的自律規範能趕快上路能夠用多方的方式來彌補這段時間的空窗\n\n03:11.482 --> 03:30.772\n很好謝謝主委我想我們一樣也是有共識公司協作可以有效平衡防弊與新利的目標這一點我相信我們都是非常重視的那您今天的報告也提到聯防通報的機制快速返還招詐欺款項等等的機制這個確實能夠提高防詐的效果\n\n03:31.152 --> 03:58.981\n但需要各方的高度協同想請教一下主委在實施上如何確保相關的比如說警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間能夠無縫的合作金管會對此有沒有一些關於內部教育或者是技術、金流分析的工具尤其是虛擬的金流有沒有一些具體的技術的掌握、工具的掌握實施的方案和時間表您是否認同我這一塊說法\n\n04:00.101 --> 04:27.384\n當然這個監管對我們來講是很大的挑戰就是我也不會沿金管會的資源從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理確實要一段的這個調整但是我們過去在長期在推動金融科技發展的時候我們也累積了一些資源那我想說未來我們會朝這個方向來發展那至於說裡面剛才講我們需要補強的地方我們會來加強補強因為畢竟這是已經是確定的趨勢我們就要勇於面對\n\n04:27.924 --> 04:50.442\n我想各國關於這個虛擬金流的分析還有防詐的工具技術其實都有很深的著力臺灣的業者其實也這個能力非常強也希望能夠持續的做到公司協力那最後我再次強調啦虛擬資產作為一種新興科技它其實具備極大的發展潛力因為它不需要圈地不需要過多的水\n\n04:50.802 --> 05:08.333\n也不需要過多的電到目前為止現在已經有新的技術了所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展不要一味的強化監管這個我有看到您的精神我予以支持請監管會持續的平衡防弊與新力給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":21.758,"text":"金融主委有請彭主委委員好主委好我想今天雖然我們的這個題目有說VASP淪為詐騙工具但我們認為這有一點汙名的感覺我也相信這個官員也不是這樣想的汽車也可以拿來做這個作案"},{"start":22.278,"end":22.919,"text":"當然剛剛也非常印象深刻"},{"start":38.539,"end":62.739,"text":"您我相信您我都同意防制洗錢和詐欺犯罪的重要性也要針對虛擬資產及交易事業、VASP的規範我們也必須要擔心是不是過於嚴苛對這個新興產業造成不必要的壓力但剛剛您有提到非常尊重這個明天會正式成立的這個工會我也予以讚賞跟贊同那是不是給您一點時間來分享一下"},{"start":63.439,"end":86.699,"text":"用工會加上我們的這個主管機關怎麼樣來做一個平衡是不是一個好的做法是不是也能讓你說明一下為什麼工會其實非常的重要謝謝委員我想我們在金管會在過去對市場的監理呢就有一套模式像比如說我就先舉例像我們銀行我們有完善的法令但是也有工會在運作"},{"start":87.62,"end":113.722,"text":"那當然這個前提是它必須要是一個納管的單位對所以我們想說我們剛剛也跟委員會報告我們先初步呢先用《洗錢防制法》切入對然後再來呢我們希望它籌組工會工會是個自律組織它不是個法律約束但是我們是身為主管機關我們會強力的監督再來我們接下來第三階段服役《洗錢防制法》裡面可以行責加重這個管理最後我們有個專法來處理這件事情"},{"start":115.163,"end":142.042,"text":"那剛好也是我要問的根據報告內容金管會已經要求VASP業者制定自律規範而且相關規範要經金管會核准表示業者已經尋求並且也自我約束、積極自我管理有相關的機制來保護消費者您剛才也提到第三階段之後有登記制以及也要符合《洗錢防制法》以及《洗錢防制法》裡頭又有刑罰的標準"},{"start":144.184,"end":159.82,"text":"所以我想請教一下主委既然已經有自律規範也有工會從明天開始那麼正在主管機關的立場為何不給這些自律規範更多的時間來驗證它的可能性而要急於推動專法來進行管控呢是不是可以稍微回應一下"},{"start":160.42,"end":180.001,"text":"謝謝 其實剛才委員講的專法應該是第四階段是那等於說我們按照的時程最快我們大概就是明年的上半年才會提到報院報院呢那接下來還要經過院的審查送到大院來審查凝聚共事我覺得會有一段很長的時間那在這個中間我們打詐不能"},{"start":180.882,"end":190.951,"text":"不能不管所以我們先用《洗錢防制法》第2條修正去做但是我們也希望說我們的自律規範能趕快上路能夠用多方的方式來彌補這段時間的空窗"},{"start":191.482,"end":210.772,"text":"很好 謝謝主委我想我們一樣也是有共識公司協作可以有效平衡防弊與新利的目標這一點我相信我們都是非常重視的那您今天的報告也提到聯防通報的機制快速返還招詐欺款項等等的機制這個確實能夠提高防詐的效果"},{"start":211.152,"end":238.981,"text":"但需要各方的高度協同想請教一下主委在實施上如何確保相關的比如說警察機關、司法機關、金融機構和VASP之間能夠無縫的合作金管會對此有沒有一些關於內部教育或者是技術、金流分析的工具尤其是虛擬的金流有沒有一些具體的技術的掌握、工具的掌握實施的方案和時間表您是否認同我這一塊說法"},{"start":240.101,"end":267.384,"text":"當然這個監管對我們來講是很大的挑戰就是我也不會沿金管會的資源從過去傳統的金融監理走到數位的監理確實要一段的這個調整但是我們過去在長期在推動金融科技發展的時候我們也累積了一些資源那我想說未來我們會朝這個方向來發展那至於說裡面剛才講我們需要補強的地方我們會來加強補強因為畢竟這是已經是確定的趨勢我們就要勇於面對"},{"start":267.924,"end":290.442,"text":"我想各國關於這個虛擬金流的分析還有防詐的工具技術其實都有很深的著力臺灣的業者其實也這個能力非常強也希望能夠持續的做到公司協力那最後我再次強調啦虛擬資產作為一種新興科技它其實具備極大的發展潛力因為它不需要圈地不需要過多的水"},{"start":290.802,"end":308.333,"text":"也不需要過多的電到目前為止現在已經有新的技術了所以政府應該鼓勵並支持產業的發展不要一味的強化監管這個我有看到您的精神我予以支持請監管會持續的平衡防弊與新力給予自律組織和自律規範更多的時間與空間"}]}}}}