{"id":153862,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153862","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81954a005ba6e7cdbc159a48fe1a1d57c38f1306821ff1b0f8151d9cde2851d34635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:49:53 - 12:00:24","影片長度":"00:10:31","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長報告「國家如何運用民間通信設施蒐羅國安資訊」，併請國家通訊傳播委員會、中華電信股份有限公司列席，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T11:49:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T12:00:24+08:00","duration":631,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":26,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-26"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":840,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時49分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請國安局蔡局長及海巡署謝副署長。"],["主席：請蔡局長及謝副署長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：局長、署長，淡水河口是本席的選區，我一直強調第一線的海巡人員非常辛苦，而且我們也都理解，但是在這件事情有幾個非常離譜的狀況，第一時間看到海巡新聞稿的相關回應竟然是說有全程掌握、有立即逮捕，但是後來發覺並不是這麼一回事！首先我想要請教，現在海巡掌握到這位陸籍男子承認是解放軍海軍艇長的身分，導致國人因此擔心是否會有國安的破口，目前國安的系統有沒有介入調查？"],["蔡局長明彥：有，我們已經在了解，當然也已經進行司法偵辦，但是因為涉及到他在對岸的身分，過去是否有一些活動的足跡、與中共的軍方或官方是否有連結，我們都會進行勾連。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，什麼時候可以向國人說明？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分我們要尊重……"],["洪委員孟楷：這是單一個案或是一個有計畫性的預謀犯案，甚至有沒有可能在背後有人指使？"],["蔡局長明彥：剛剛向賴士葆委員說明時也提過各種可能性都有，有可能是有計畫性的、有官方的主導，也有可能是他個人的行為，這個部分我們要尊重檢察機關的調查狀況，需要我們提供相關的情資時，我們也會配合辦理。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以國安單位不會主動向國人說明，但這是一個重大事件耶！端午連假突然間爆發這件事情，昨天媒體的頭版到今天大家也都非常關注、國人也會擔心啊！所以我想請教，這是單一個案或是有預謀性？過去有沒有發生過這樣的狀況？大家現在看起來是第一例，但是以這樣鬆散的程度而言，我真的已經不敢想是不是第一例，局長，你覺得沒必要讓國人安心了解是什麼樣的狀況嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分還在查證當中，尤其是涉及到他在中國內部的身分及活動，需要花點時間進行了解，我們會透過我們的國安團隊去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：需要多久的時間？還是你認為到下禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後，國人就會忘了，這件事情就會船過水無痕嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：不會，我們還會召開專案會議針對這個個案進行討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果是針對這個個案的部分，有沒有必要讓國人了解到底是什麼情況？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，大概有幾個部分，第一個部分，當然是針對我們想要釐清的重點……"],["洪委員孟楷：要不要說明？"],["蔡局長明彥：針對我們想要釐清的重點，將會請包括本局在內的11個單位進行情報的分工及蒐集，等到彙整回來之後，假如檢察機關有需要的話，我們也會提供給檢察機關參用。"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛！"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：局長，你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊？現在這是全國譁然、也關注的事情，但是國安單位了解之後卻不說明，只是推給檢調，如果檢調又說偵查不公開，或是又拖了3個月、半年，結果這件事情就無疾而終啊！"],["蔡局長明彥：因為這個部分還是要……"],["洪委員孟楷：大家就只想掩蓋事實，把頭埋在沙子裡，以為這樣就可以不當一回事。"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分還是要尊重檢察機關的查辦，假如我們對外有任何的說明，也怕會影響或干預司法。"],["洪委員孟楷：海巡署。"],["謝副署長慶欽：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個艇長的身分是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎？"],["謝副署長慶欽：初步偵詢時他自己承認是中共海軍的少校。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你們就沒有檢調單位的因素、你們就可以說明？"],["謝副署長慶欽：是，但是我們只有……"],["洪委員孟楷：剛才國安局局長說可以調查釐清，但必須要尊重檢調單位，所以你們什麼時候會進一步了解他的意圖，再向國人說明？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，現在地檢署正在偵辦中，因為涉及到偵查不公開的原則，目前相關細節沒辦法對外說明。"],["洪委員孟楷：剛剛你講了這個人主動承認自己以前是少校的身分，這也是海巡之後對媒體說的嘛！"],["謝副署長慶欽：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！這個就沒有偵查不公開的問題？"],["謝副署長慶欽：是，我們這個部分只講大方向。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼樣才叫大方向？更重要的是，謝副署長，本席覺得最沒辦法接受的地方，因為之後我也向業者做過了解，你的新聞稿在第一時間告訴我們是什麼？當這個人停到碼頭的時候，在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕。海巡人員嚴陣以待，當這個人的快艇靠岸之後就立即逮人，這是你們第一時間的說法。沒想到，原來是這個人擦撞到交通船之後，業者上岸去問、業者覺得他怪怪的、業者主動打電話，而且據本席的了解，原本業者的第一通電話還不是打給海巡署，對不對？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，我們接到電話的時間是10點54分。"],["洪委員孟楷：根據業者向本席透露的消息，他的第一通電話其實是打給警察單位，因為業者根本沒想過怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情、怎麼會有一個自行駕船偷渡進來的偷渡客還能夠上岸趴趴走，所以第一時間想到的是通知警務單位，結果警務單位建議他應該要趕快通報海巡署，於是業者撥打了118，半個小時之後，海巡人員才到現場將他逮捕。在這半個小時的過程中，如果不是業者很負責任的、很具有國家意識或社會責任感，盡可能的將這個人留住，不然這個人可能早就跑掉了。"],["謝副署長慶欽：向委員釐清一下，我們的八里守望哨在10點20分就發現這艘船不是國籍漁船，然後……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但重點是業者不清楚嘛！"],["謝副署長慶欽：是，10點54分我們就接到通報。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們並沒有通報業者，而業者是因為船尾被撞到、被擦撞，所以他把那個人留下來，但是聽那個人的口音並不是我們國籍的人，卻又覺得奇怪，照理講，不可能有偷渡客能夠進入我們的河口內，才會覺得他可能是相關的治安問題。最後撥打給海巡署，半個小時後海巡署才到場，而這半個小時的空窗期，其實是有賴業者用國家意識、用社會責任才將那個人留在那邊耶！是不是？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，這艘船是在11點10分才靠岸，因為擦撞之後在現場理論，所以11點10分才在渡船碼頭那邊靠岸，這個時候我們的同仁已經在那邊了。"],["洪委員孟楷：這件事讓國人無法接受的有兩個部分，第一，擦撞，你們說是全程監控，但是那個擦撞有半個小時理論的狀況，如果以一般在路上發生車禍而言，萬一肇事逃逸，也就是那個人要是跑掉呢？現在是這個人有被我們逮捕，所以我們才能了解他背後有什麼樣的身分及後續的等等狀況。如果今天那個人就是肇事逃逸，事情就大條了！現在大家都扯不清了！第二，為什麼第一時間海巡居然會告訴國人，在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕？海巡人員嚴陣以待，靠岸之後立即逮人，這個說法分明與現實狀況有出入啊！所以你覺得我們現在只要懲處這10個人，是不是？"],["謝副署長慶欽：目前是懲處分署長到雷操手等10位。"],["洪委員孟楷：還會不會再繼續針對這個個案？"],["謝副署長慶欽：我們是……"],["洪委員孟楷：我看到新聞報導是你的名字，以你的名字發稿表示海巡人員嚴陣以待，等快艇靠岸後立即逮人。你的名字說船停靠碼頭後，在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕，換言之，你們上級長官是不是在第一時間也接收到不對的資訊？還是你們明明知道正確的資訊卻想要美化後讓國人知道，但是國人越了解真實狀況之後反而越沒辦法安心。"],["謝副署長慶欽：11點10分這艘快艇靠泊在渡船碼頭，我們同仁一車四人同時到現場，所以11點10分是逮捕，我們也有錄影帶，確實是11點10分。這艘船是在11點10分靠泊碼頭，剛才委員說的是10點54分，我們再往前推10點20分八里所已經確定他不是我們的人，我們承認的確是疏失，這個時候它已經馬上通報了，所以它還是繼續監控、還是繼續監控。"],["洪委員孟楷：但通報時間是不是比業者都還要晚？"],["謝副署長慶欽：我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在的狀況就是……副署長，本席現在只把兩點點出來，因為本席與業者通過電話，也確實明白當天的狀況，業者很低調是因為他們覺得這是無妄之災，但重點在於我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客、一個不知道他目的為何的人進入我們的河口，而且還上岸了？甚至還有媒體更離譜的報導，不知道你有沒有看到，它說這名男子上岸向別人借電話打，有沒有這樣的狀況？"],["謝副署長慶欽：我們事後的資訊就是11點10分靠港，同仁已經都在現場，總共有4個人在現場並當場逮捕。"],["洪委員孟楷：副署長，我覺得在這件事情上面……"],["謝副署長慶欽：我們會深度了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：深度了解，還有這一波是不是就這樣結束了？最重要的是他的目的到底為何？如果國安局說沒辦法告訴國人，你適時的在國家安全與情報之下讓國人了解他們的目的，我覺得還是要釐清究竟是單一個案或是背後有什麼目的，這個還是要讓國人清楚明白了解，也讓我們淡水鄉親能夠安心啦！我說實在話。"],["謝副署長慶欽：謝謝委員、謝謝委員，我們全力以赴。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":166,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-26","speakers":["馬文君","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳永康","林楚茵","黃仁","沈伯洋","王定宇","羅美玲","洪申翰","鍾佳濱","賴士葆","李坤城","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","黃國昌","張啓楷","羅智強","林憶君","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長報告「國家如何運用民間通信設施蒐羅國安資\n訊」，併請國家通訊傳播委員會、中華電信股份有限公司列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136101_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"153862","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153862","tool":"pyannote","id":"153862-pyannote"},"job_id":"zTj8AVaMk3DL8y2N","queued_at":"2024-06-12 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\"end\": 607.01, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,424 --> 00:00:21,678\n局長、署長淡水河口是本席的選區我一直強調說我們第一線的海巡同仁其實非常的辛苦我們也都理解但是在這件事情上面其實非常離譜會有幾個狀況就是說讓大家覺得是說第一時間看到海巡的新聞稿跟相關的回應是說有全程掌握\n\n2\n00:00:22,478 --> 00:00:43,551\n有立即逮捕但後來發覺不是這麼回事但我想先請教的是現在海巡掌握說這一個陸籍男子他承認解放軍海軍還是艦艇的艇長的一個身份導致國內也會擔心說是不是有國安的破口那我們現在國安的系統有沒有來介入調查\n\n3\n00:00:43,931 --> 00:00:59,796\n有,我們有在了解當然已經在司法正辦了但是在過程當中特別他涉及到在對岸的身份以及過去有沒有一些活動的足跡以及跟中共的官方或軍方有沒有一些連結我們會來進行勾連好,那什麼時候可以對外跟國人說明\n\n4\n00:01:01,237 --> 00:01:28,215\n這是一個單一個案還是這是一個有計劃性的預謀犯案甚至有可能他配後有沒有人指使對我們剛剛在跟賴司法委員說明的時候也提到了各種可能性都有有可能是有計劃性的有官方的主導有可能是他個人行為那這部分我們要尊重檢查機關的調查的狀況那需要我們提供相關的情資我們會來配合辦理所以國安單位不會主動的跟國人說明因為國人現在已經這是一個重大事件\n\n5\n00:01:29,156 --> 00:01:50,208\n端午連假的時候突然間爆發然後昨天媒體頭版頭到今天大家也都關注那我想請教的是國人也會擔心啊這是單一個案還是有預謀性這是過去有沒有發生這樣的一個狀況大家現在看起來是第一例但是以現在的鬆散的程度我真的已經不敢想說是不是第一例\n\n6\n00:01:51,158 --> 00:02:13,275\n所以局長,你覺得沒有必要讓國人比較安心的瞭解這到底是什麼狀況嗎?對,這部分還在查證過程當中,尤其它涉及到它在中國內部的身份跟活動,這要花點時間來瞭解。我們會透過我們的管理團隊來瞭解。多久時間,還是你覺得是說到下個禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後,國人忘了,這件事情就傳過水無痕的方式?不會不會不會,我們都還會開專案的會議來針對這個個案來討論。\n\n7\n00:02:16,618 --> 00:02:38,905\n那是那如果說針對專案個案針對這個個案的部分那有沒有必要讓國人瞭解是說他到底是什麼情況?對大概有幾個部分第一部分當然會針對我們想要釐清的要不要說明?針對我們想要釐清的重點會請國安單位包括本局11個單位來進行情報的分工跟收集那會怎麼回來之後那假如檢察機關有需要的話我們會提供給檢察機關來參用\n\n8\n00:02:41,383 --> 00:02:57,956\n是嗎?但局長你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊本席現在是說是全國大家都華人也關注的一個重點但是國安單位瞭解了可是到最後你們不說明別剪掉那剪掉如果說又講說這偵查不公開或是說你又拖了三個月半年\n\n9\n00:02:59,246 --> 00:03:00,807\n這個艦艇的艇長的身份是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:23,014 --> 00:03:48,470\n初步遵循的話他是自己承認是那個中共海軍的少校是,所以你們就沒有檢調單位的這樣的一個狀況你們就可以說明是,但是我們不像剛剛我們國安局局長講是說不管怎麼樣我們可以調查釐清但是都要尊重檢調單位所以你們會再進一步什麼時候會了解他的意圖之後來跟國人說明\n\n11\n00:03:50,473 --> 00:04:11,984\n跟委員報告現在自營地緣署正在偵辦中那當然有涉及到偵查不公開相關細節是目前沒辦法對外說明那我們講剛剛你講啦是那個人他主動承認他以前是少校的身份這也是我們海巡之後在對媒體說的嘛是是那是啊這就沒有偵查不公開的問題是我們這部分只講大方向而已\n\n12\n00:04:13,446 --> 00:04:38,782\n什麼樣才叫大方向現在國人都關心更重要的是來謝副署長本席覺得最沒有辦法接受的地方是因為業者我之後也有跟業者來了解你的新聞稿以及第一時間告訴我們是什麼是這一個人當他停到碼頭的時候在旁等待的海巡人員立即把這個男子給逮捕\n\n13\n00:04:39,775 --> 00:05:05,379\n海巡人員嚴正以待當這一個人的快艇靠岸之後立即逮人這是你們第一時間的說法結果沒想到原來是這一個擦撞到交通船之後業者他上岸業者來問然後業者覺得他怪怪的業者主動打電話而且據本期了解業者第一通電話本來還不是打給海巡署對不對\n\n14\n00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:31,690\n跟委員報告我們接到電話18410點54分10點54接到委員跟委員報告喔是啊業者跟本席透露的消息是說他第一通電話其實打給的是我們的警察單位因為業者會覺得是說根本沒有想過說怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情是由一個偷渡客上岸之後能夠在岸上趴趴走或是他坐他的船\n\n15\n00:05:32,691 --> 00:06:01,537\n所以第一個時間想的是說應該是我們警務單位警務單位在跟他建議是說趕快應該要通報海巡署所以業者打118118完之後半個小時後海巡人員才到現場把他也逮捕而且這半個小時的過程如果不是業者很負責任的或是有這種國家意識或是社會責任感盡可能的來留住這一個人這人可能早就跑掉了\n\n16\n00:06:02,352 --> 00:06:17,543\n委員跟委員釐清一下我們10點20分巴黎守望哨他就發現這艘船不是國籍船是但是重點是業者不清楚嘛是10點54分你們也沒有通報業者業者是被撞到之後他的船的船尾被撞到被插撞\n\n17\n00:06:18,123 --> 00:06:44,619\n然後他把那個人留下來聽他的口音不是我們本國籍的人但是覺得說奇怪照理講不可能有偷渡客可以來我們河口內嘛也因此才會覺得是說他可能是我們相關治安問題結果後來打給海巡署海巡署才半個小時後才到場那這半個小時的空窗期其實是有賴業者用國家意識用社會責任來把那個人留在那邊欸\n\n18\n00:06:45,379 --> 00:06:47,940\n所以我現在講的就是這一件問題會讓大家國人沒有辦法接受是兩個部分第一擦撞你們及時講說全程監控\n\n19\n00:07:08,624 --> 00:07:29,571\n但是那差狀有半個小時的理論的狀況而半小時的理論狀況如果說我們以一般在路上有發生車禍造勢逃逸有沒有那個人跑掉今天好家在是什麼是這一個人有被我們逮捕所以我們才可以了解說他背後有什麼樣身份以及等等後續的狀況如果今天那個人就是造勢逃逸了\n\n20\n00:07:31,257 --> 00:07:52,531\n現在大家都睡不著了第二為什麼第一時間海巡居然會去告訴我們是告訴國人說在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕說海巡人員嚴正以待靠岸之後立即逮人這分明跟現實狀況有出路啊所以你覺得現在我們懲處只懲處這10個人是不是\n\n21\n00:07:55,430 --> 00:08:17,854\n目前分署長到雷超首四位還會不會再繼續針對這個個案我現在有看到新聞報導是你的名字啊你的名字表示海巡人員嚴陣以待等快艇靠岸立即逮人你的名字講說船停靠碼頭在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子給逮捕\n\n22\n00:08:18,715 --> 00:08:26,589\n換言之你們是不是在第一時間你們上期場觀也接收到不對的一個資訊還是說你們明明知道正確的資訊但是你們想要美化\n\n23\n00:08:27,657 --> 00:08:34,119\n11點10分這一艘快艇靠駁在渡船碼頭我們通常一車4人同時到現場所以11點10分是逮捕我們也有錄影帶這邊11點10分那這艘船是在11點10分靠駁碼頭剛才委員提醒的大概是在10點54分\n\n24\n00:08:52,805 --> 00:08:54,647\n但是通報的時間是不是比業者都還要來得晚現在狀況就是\n\n25\n00:09:09,534 --> 00:09:37,134\n副署長本席現在只講兩點點出來因為本席有跟業者通過電話也確實明白說當天的狀況業者他們很低調是因為他們覺得說這是無望之災但是重點在於是說我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客一個不知道他目的為何的人進入到我們的河口並且上岸來做相關甚至還有媒體報導我不知道你們有沒有看到還有更離譜的是這一個男子上岸然後跟別人借電話打\n\n26\n00:09:38,854 --> 00:10:05,589\n有沒有這樣的狀況我們收到的資訊就是第1111點10分靠港我們通常在現場是所長帶著總共有4個人在現場當場逮捕所以副署長我覺得在這件事情上面我們在深度了解深度了解然後還有就是是不是這一波這樣子就結束了然後還有最重要的是他的目的到底為何國安局如果說沒有辦法告訴國人你適時的在\n\n27\n00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:07,010\n接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n424\t21678\t局長、署長淡水河口是本席的選區我一直強調說我們第一線的海巡同仁其實非常的辛苦我們也都理解但是在這件事情上面其實非常離譜會有幾個狀況就是說讓大家覺得是說第一時間看到海巡的新聞稿跟相關的回應是說有全程掌握\n22478\t43551\t有立即逮捕但後來發覺不是這麼回事但我想先請教的是現在海巡掌握說這一個陸籍男子他承認解放軍海軍還是艦艇的艇長的一個身份導致國內也會擔心說是不是有國安的破口那我們現在國安的系統有沒有來介入調查\n43931\t59796\t有,我們有在了解當然已經在司法正辦了但是在過程當中特別他涉及到在對岸的身份以及過去有沒有一些活動的足跡以及跟中共的官方或軍方有沒有一些連結我們會來進行勾連好,那什麼時候可以對外跟國人說明\n61237\t88215\t這是一個單一個案還是這是一個有計劃性的預謀犯案甚至有可能他配後有沒有人指使對我們剛剛在跟賴司法委員說明的時候也提到了各種可能性都有有可能是有計劃性的有官方的主導有可能是他個人行為那這部分我們要尊重檢查機關的調查的狀況那需要我們提供相關的情資我們會來配合辦理所以國安單位不會主動的跟國人說明因為國人現在已經這是一個重大事件\n89156\t110208\t端午連假的時候突然間爆發然後昨天媒體頭版頭到今天大家也都關注那我想請教的是國人也會擔心啊這是單一個案還是有預謀性這是過去有沒有發生這樣的一個狀況大家現在看起來是第一例但是以現在的鬆散的程度我真的已經不敢想說是不是第一例\n111158\t133275\t所以局長,你覺得沒有必要讓國人比較安心的瞭解這到底是什麼狀況嗎?對,這部分還在查證過程當中,尤其它涉及到它在中國內部的身份跟活動,這要花點時間來瞭解。我們會透過我們的管理團隊來瞭解。多久時間,還是你覺得是說到下個禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後,國人忘了,這件事情就傳過水無痕的方式?不會不會不會,我們都還會開專案的會議來針對這個個案來討論。\n136618\t158905\t那是那如果說針對專案個案針對這個個案的部分那有沒有必要讓國人瞭解是說他到底是什麼情況?對大概有幾個部分第一部分當然會針對我們想要釐清的要不要說明?針對我們想要釐清的重點會請國安單位包括本局11個單位來進行情報的分工跟收集那會怎麼回來之後那假如檢察機關有需要的話我們會提供給檢察機關來參用\n161383\t177956\t是嗎?但局長你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊本席現在是說是全國大家都華人也關注的一個重點但是國安單位瞭解了可是到最後你們不說明別剪掉那剪掉如果說又講說這偵查不公開或是說你又拖了三個月半年\n179246\t180807\t這個艦艇的艇長的身份是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎?\n203014\t228470\t初步遵循的話他是自己承認是那個中共海軍的少校是,所以你們就沒有檢調單位的這樣的一個狀況你們就可以說明是,但是我們不像剛剛我們國安局局長講是說不管怎麼樣我們可以調查釐清但是都要尊重檢調單位所以你們會再進一步什麼時候會了解他的意圖之後來跟國人說明\n230473\t251984\t跟委員報告現在自營地緣署正在偵辦中那當然有涉及到偵查不公開相關細節是目前沒辦法對外說明那我們講剛剛你講啦是那個人他主動承認他以前是少校的身份這也是我們海巡之後在對媒體說的嘛是是那是啊這就沒有偵查不公開的問題是我們這部分只講大方向而已\n253446\t278782\t什麼樣才叫大方向現在國人都關心更重要的是來謝副署長本席覺得最沒有辦法接受的地方是因為業者我之後也有跟業者來了解你的新聞稿以及第一時間告訴我們是什麼是這一個人當他停到碼頭的時候在旁等待的海巡人員立即把這個男子給逮捕\n279775\t305379\t海巡人員嚴正以待當這一個人的快艇靠岸之後立即逮人這是你們第一時間的說法結果沒想到原來是這一個擦撞到交通船之後業者他上岸業者來問然後業者覺得他怪怪的業者主動打電話而且據本期了解業者第一通電話本來還不是打給海巡署對不對\n307110\t331690\t跟委員報告我們接到電話184 10點54分10點54接到委員跟委員報告喔是啊業者跟本席透露的消息是說他第一通電話其實打給的是我們的警察單位因為業者會覺得是說根本沒有想過說怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情是由一個偷渡客上岸之後能夠在岸上趴趴走或是他坐他的船\n332691\t361537\t所以第一個時間想的是說應該是我們警務單位警務單位在跟他建議是說趕快應該要通報海巡署所以業者打118118完之後半個小時後海巡人員才到現場把他也逮捕而且這半個小時的過程如果不是業者很負責任的或是有這種國家意識或是社會責任感盡可能的來留住這一個人這人可能早就跑掉了\n362352\t377543\t委員跟委員釐清一下我們10點20分巴黎守望哨他就發現這艘船不是國籍船是但是重點是業者不清楚嘛是10點54分你們也沒有通報業者業者是被撞到之後他的船的船尾被撞到被插撞\n378123\t404619\t然後他把那個人留下來聽他的口音不是我們本國籍的人但是覺得說奇怪照理講不可能有偷渡客可以來我們河口內嘛也因此才會覺得是說他可能是我們相關治安問題結果後來打給海巡署海巡署才半個小時後才到場那這半個小時的空窗期其實是有賴業者用國家意識用社會責任來把那個人留在那邊欸\n405379\t407940\t所以我現在講的就是這一件問題會讓大家國人沒有辦法接受是兩個部分第一擦撞你們及時講說全程監控\n428624\t449571\t但是那差狀有半個小時的理論的狀況而半小時的理論狀況如果說我們以一般在路上有發生車禍造勢逃逸有沒有那個人跑掉今天好家在是什麼是這一個人有被我們逮捕所以我們才可以了解說他背後有什麼樣身份以及等等後續的狀況如果今天那個人就是造勢逃逸了\n451257\t472531\t現在大家都睡不著了第二為什麼第一時間海巡居然會去告訴我們是告訴國人說在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕說海巡人員嚴正以待靠岸之後立即逮人這分明跟現實狀況有出路啊所以你覺得現在我們懲處只懲處這10個人是不是\n475430\t497854\t目前分署長到雷超首四位還會不會再繼續針對這個個案我現在有看到新聞報導是你的名字啊你的名字表示海巡人員嚴陣以待等快艇靠岸立即逮人你的名字講說船停靠碼頭在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子給逮捕\n498715\t506589\t換言之你們是不是在第一時間你們上期場觀也接收到不對的一個資訊還是說你們明明知道正確的資訊但是你們想要美化\n507657\t514119\t11點10分這一艘快艇靠駁在渡船碼頭我們通常一車4人同時到現場所以11點10分是逮捕我們也有錄影帶這邊11點10分那這艘船是在11點10分靠駁碼頭剛才委員提醒的大概是在10點54分\n532805\t534647\t但是通報的時間是不是比業者都還要來得晚現在狀況就是\n549534\t577134\t副署長本席現在只講兩點點出來因為本席有跟業者通過電話也確實明白說當天的狀況業者他們很低調是因為他們覺得說這是無望之災但是重點在於是說我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客一個不知道他目的為何的人進入到我們的河口並且上岸來做相關甚至還有媒體報導我不知道你們有沒有看到還有更離譜的是這一個男子上岸然後跟別人借電話打\n578854\t605589\t有沒有這樣的狀況我們收到的資訊就是第1111點10分靠港我們通常在現場是所長帶著總共有4個人在現場當場逮捕所以副署長我覺得在這件事情上面我們在深度了解深度了解然後還有就是是不是這一波這樣子就結束了然後還有最重要的是他的目的到底為何國安局如果說沒有辦法告訴國人你適時的在\n606630\t607010\t接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢\n","txt":"局長、署長淡水河口是本席的選區我一直強調說我們第一線的海巡同仁其實非常的辛苦我們也都理解但是在這件事情上面其實非常離譜會有幾個狀況就是說讓大家覺得是說第一時間看到海巡的新聞稿跟相關的回應是說有全程掌握\n有立即逮捕但後來發覺不是這麼回事但我想先請教的是現在海巡掌握說這一個陸籍男子他承認解放軍海軍還是艦艇的艇長的一個身份導致國內也會擔心說是不是有國安的破口那我們現在國安的系統有沒有來介入調查\n有,我們有在了解當然已經在司法正辦了但是在過程當中特別他涉及到在對岸的身份以及過去有沒有一些活動的足跡以及跟中共的官方或軍方有沒有一些連結我們會來進行勾連好,那什麼時候可以對外跟國人說明\n這是一個單一個案還是這是一個有計劃性的預謀犯案甚至有可能他配後有沒有人指使對我們剛剛在跟賴司法委員說明的時候也提到了各種可能性都有有可能是有計劃性的有官方的主導有可能是他個人行為那這部分我們要尊重檢查機關的調查的狀況那需要我們提供相關的情資我們會來配合辦理所以國安單位不會主動的跟國人說明因為國人現在已經這是一個重大事件\n端午連假的時候突然間爆發然後昨天媒體頭版頭到今天大家也都關注那我想請教的是國人也會擔心啊這是單一個案還是有預謀性這是過去有沒有發生這樣的一個狀況大家現在看起來是第一例但是以現在的鬆散的程度我真的已經不敢想說是不是第一例\n所以局長,你覺得沒有必要讓國人比較安心的瞭解這到底是什麼狀況嗎?對,這部分還在查證過程當中,尤其它涉及到它在中國內部的身份跟活動,這要花點時間來瞭解。我們會透過我們的管理團隊來瞭解。多久時間,還是你覺得是說到下個禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後,國人忘了,這件事情就傳過水無痕的方式?不會不會不會,我們都還會開專案的會議來針對這個個案來討論。\n那是那如果說針對專案個案針對這個個案的部分那有沒有必要讓國人瞭解是說他到底是什麼情況?對大概有幾個部分第一部分當然會針對我們想要釐清的要不要說明?針對我們想要釐清的重點會請國安單位包括本局11個單位來進行情報的分工跟收集那會怎麼回來之後那假如檢察機關有需要的話我們會提供給檢察機關來參用\n是嗎?但局長你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊本席現在是說是全國大家都華人也關注的一個重點但是國安單位瞭解了可是到最後你們不說明別剪掉那剪掉如果說又講說這偵查不公開或是說你又拖了三個月半年\n這個艦艇的艇長的身份是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎?\n初步遵循的話他是自己承認是那個中共海軍的少校是,所以你們就沒有檢調單位的這樣的一個狀況你們就可以說明是,但是我們不像剛剛我們國安局局長講是說不管怎麼樣我們可以調查釐清但是都要尊重檢調單位所以你們會再進一步什麼時候會了解他的意圖之後來跟國人說明\n跟委員報告現在自營地緣署正在偵辦中那當然有涉及到偵查不公開相關細節是目前沒辦法對外說明那我們講剛剛你講啦是那個人他主動承認他以前是少校的身份這也是我們海巡之後在對媒體說的嘛是是那是啊這就沒有偵查不公開的問題是我們這部分只講大方向而已\n什麼樣才叫大方向現在國人都關心更重要的是來謝副署長本席覺得最沒有辦法接受的地方是因為業者我之後也有跟業者來了解你的新聞稿以及第一時間告訴我們是什麼是這一個人當他停到碼頭的時候在旁等待的海巡人員立即把這個男子給逮捕\n海巡人員嚴正以待當這一個人的快艇靠岸之後立即逮人這是你們第一時間的說法結果沒想到原來是這一個擦撞到交通船之後業者他上岸業者來問然後業者覺得他怪怪的業者主動打電話而且據本期了解業者第一通電話本來還不是打給海巡署對不對\n跟委員報告我們接到電話184 10點54分10點54接到委員跟委員報告喔是啊業者跟本席透露的消息是說他第一通電話其實打給的是我們的警察單位因為業者會覺得是說根本沒有想過說怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情是由一個偷渡客上岸之後能夠在岸上趴趴走或是他坐他的船\n所以第一個時間想的是說應該是我們警務單位警務單位在跟他建議是說趕快應該要通報海巡署所以業者打118118完之後半個小時後海巡人員才到現場把他也逮捕而且這半個小時的過程如果不是業者很負責任的或是有這種國家意識或是社會責任感盡可能的來留住這一個人這人可能早就跑掉了\n委員跟委員釐清一下我們10點20分巴黎守望哨他就發現這艘船不是國籍船是但是重點是業者不清楚嘛是10點54分你們也沒有通報業者業者是被撞到之後他的船的船尾被撞到被插撞\n然後他把那個人留下來聽他的口音不是我們本國籍的人但是覺得說奇怪照理講不可能有偷渡客可以來我們河口內嘛也因此才會覺得是說他可能是我們相關治安問題結果後來打給海巡署海巡署才半個小時後才到場那這半個小時的空窗期其實是有賴業者用國家意識用社會責任來把那個人留在那邊欸\n所以我現在講的就是這一件問題會讓大家國人沒有辦法接受是兩個部分第一擦撞你們及時講說全程監控\n但是那差狀有半個小時的理論的狀況而半小時的理論狀況如果說我們以一般在路上有發生車禍造勢逃逸有沒有那個人跑掉今天好家在是什麼是這一個人有被我們逮捕所以我們才可以了解說他背後有什麼樣身份以及等等後續的狀況如果今天那個人就是造勢逃逸了\n現在大家都睡不著了第二為什麼第一時間海巡居然會去告訴我們是告訴國人說在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕說海巡人員嚴正以待靠岸之後立即逮人這分明跟現實狀況有出路啊所以你覺得現在我們懲處只懲處這10個人是不是\n目前分署長到雷超首四位還會不會再繼續針對這個個案我現在有看到新聞報導是你的名字啊你的名字表示海巡人員嚴陣以待等快艇靠岸立即逮人你的名字講說船停靠碼頭在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子給逮捕\n換言之你們是不是在第一時間你們上期場觀也接收到不對的一個資訊還是說你們明明知道正確的資訊但是你們想要美化\n11點10分這一艘快艇靠駁在渡船碼頭我們通常一車4人同時到現場所以11點10分是逮捕我們也有錄影帶這邊11點10分那這艘船是在11點10分靠駁碼頭剛才委員提醒的大概是在10點54分\n但是通報的時間是不是比業者都還要來得晚現在狀況就是\n副署長本席現在只講兩點點出來因為本席有跟業者通過電話也確實明白說當天的狀況業者他們很低調是因為他們覺得說這是無望之災但是重點在於是說我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客一個不知道他目的為何的人進入到我們的河口並且上岸來做相關甚至還有媒體報導我不知道你們有沒有看到還有更離譜的是這一個男子上岸然後跟別人借電話打\n有沒有這樣的狀況我們收到的資訊就是第1111點10分靠港我們通常在現場是所長帶著總共有4個人在現場當場逮捕所以副署長我覺得在這件事情上面我們在深度了解深度了解然後還有就是是不是這一波這樣子就結束了然後還有最重要的是他的目的到底為何國安局如果說沒有辦法告訴國人你適時的在\n接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.424 --> 00:21.678\n局長、署長淡水河口是本席的選區我一直強調說我們第一線的海巡同仁其實非常的辛苦我們也都理解但是在這件事情上面其實非常離譜會有幾個狀況就是說讓大家覺得是說第一時間看到海巡的新聞稿跟相關的回應是說有全程掌握\n\n00:22.478 --> 00:43.551\n有立即逮捕但後來發覺不是這麼回事但我想先請教的是現在海巡掌握說這一個陸籍男子他承認解放軍海軍還是艦艇的艇長的一個身份導致國內也會擔心說是不是有國安的破口那我們現在國安的系統有沒有來介入調查\n\n00:43.931 --> 00:59.796\n有,我們有在了解當然已經在司法正辦了但是在過程當中特別他涉及到在對岸的身份以及過去有沒有一些活動的足跡以及跟中共的官方或軍方有沒有一些連結我們會來進行勾連好,那什麼時候可以對外跟國人說明\n\n01:01.237 --> 01:28.215\n這是一個單一個案還是這是一個有計劃性的預謀犯案甚至有可能他配後有沒有人指使對我們剛剛在跟賴司法委員說明的時候也提到了各種可能性都有有可能是有計劃性的有官方的主導有可能是他個人行為那這部分我們要尊重檢查機關的調查的狀況那需要我們提供相關的情資我們會來配合辦理所以國安單位不會主動的跟國人說明因為國人現在已經這是一個重大事件\n\n01:29.156 --> 01:50.208\n端午連假的時候突然間爆發然後昨天媒體頭版頭到今天大家也都關注那我想請教的是國人也會擔心啊這是單一個案還是有預謀性這是過去有沒有發生這樣的一個狀況大家現在看起來是第一例但是以現在的鬆散的程度我真的已經不敢想說是不是第一例\n\n01:51.158 --> 02:13.275\n所以局長,你覺得沒有必要讓國人比較安心的瞭解這到底是什麼狀況嗎?對,這部分還在查證過程當中,尤其它涉及到它在中國內部的身份跟活動,這要花點時間來瞭解。我們會透過我們的管理團隊來瞭解。多久時間,還是你覺得是說到下個禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後,國人忘了,這件事情就傳過水無痕的方式?不會不會不會,我們都還會開專案的會議來針對這個個案來討論。\n\n02:16.618 --> 02:38.905\n那是那如果說針對專案個案針對這個個案的部分那有沒有必要讓國人瞭解是說他到底是什麼情況?對大概有幾個部分第一部分當然會針對我們想要釐清的要不要說明?針對我們想要釐清的重點會請國安單位包括本局11個單位來進行情報的分工跟收集那會怎麼回來之後那假如檢察機關有需要的話我們會提供給檢察機關來參用\n\n02:41.383 --> 02:57.956\n是嗎?但局長你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊本席現在是說是全國大家都華人也關注的一個重點但是國安單位瞭解了可是到最後你們不說明別剪掉那剪掉如果說又講說這偵查不公開或是說你又拖了三個月半年\n\n02:59.246 --> 03:00.807\n這個艦艇的艇長的身份是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎?\n\n03:23.014 --> 03:48.470\n初步遵循的話他是自己承認是那個中共海軍的少校是,所以你們就沒有檢調單位的這樣的一個狀況你們就可以說明是,但是我們不像剛剛我們國安局局長講是說不管怎麼樣我們可以調查釐清但是都要尊重檢調單位所以你們會再進一步什麼時候會了解他的意圖之後來跟國人說明\n\n03:50.473 --> 04:11.984\n跟委員報告現在自營地緣署正在偵辦中那當然有涉及到偵查不公開相關細節是目前沒辦法對外說明那我們講剛剛你講啦是那個人他主動承認他以前是少校的身份這也是我們海巡之後在對媒體說的嘛是是那是啊這就沒有偵查不公開的問題是我們這部分只講大方向而已\n\n04:13.446 --> 04:38.782\n什麼樣才叫大方向現在國人都關心更重要的是來謝副署長本席覺得最沒有辦法接受的地方是因為業者我之後也有跟業者來了解你的新聞稿以及第一時間告訴我們是什麼是這一個人當他停到碼頭的時候在旁等待的海巡人員立即把這個男子給逮捕\n\n04:39.775 --> 05:05.379\n海巡人員嚴正以待當這一個人的快艇靠岸之後立即逮人這是你們第一時間的說法結果沒想到原來是這一個擦撞到交通船之後業者他上岸業者來問然後業者覺得他怪怪的業者主動打電話而且據本期了解業者第一通電話本來還不是打給海巡署對不對\n\n05:07.110 --> 05:31.690\n跟委員報告我們接到電話18410點54分10點54接到委員跟委員報告喔是啊業者跟本席透露的消息是說他第一通電話其實打給的是我們的警察單位因為業者會覺得是說根本沒有想過說怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情是由一個偷渡客上岸之後能夠在岸上趴趴走或是他坐他的船\n\n05:32.691 --> 06:01.537\n所以第一個時間想的是說應該是我們警務單位警務單位在跟他建議是說趕快應該要通報海巡署所以業者打118118完之後半個小時後海巡人員才到現場把他也逮捕而且這半個小時的過程如果不是業者很負責任的或是有這種國家意識或是社會責任感盡可能的來留住這一個人這人可能早就跑掉了\n\n06:02.352 --> 06:17.543\n委員跟委員釐清一下我們10點20分巴黎守望哨他就發現這艘船不是國籍船是但是重點是業者不清楚嘛是10點54分你們也沒有通報業者業者是被撞到之後他的船的船尾被撞到被插撞\n\n06:18.123 --> 06:44.619\n然後他把那個人留下來聽他的口音不是我們本國籍的人但是覺得說奇怪照理講不可能有偷渡客可以來我們河口內嘛也因此才會覺得是說他可能是我們相關治安問題結果後來打給海巡署海巡署才半個小時後才到場那這半個小時的空窗期其實是有賴業者用國家意識用社會責任來把那個人留在那邊欸\n\n06:45.379 --> 06:47.940\n所以我現在講的就是這一件問題會讓大家國人沒有辦法接受是兩個部分第一擦撞你們及時講說全程監控\n\n07:08.624 --> 07:29.571\n但是那差狀有半個小時的理論的狀況而半小時的理論狀況如果說我們以一般在路上有發生車禍造勢逃逸有沒有那個人跑掉今天好家在是什麼是這一個人有被我們逮捕所以我們才可以了解說他背後有什麼樣身份以及等等後續的狀況如果今天那個人就是造勢逃逸了\n\n07:31.257 --> 07:52.531\n現在大家都睡不著了第二為什麼第一時間海巡居然會去告訴我們是告訴國人說在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕說海巡人員嚴正以待靠岸之後立即逮人這分明跟現實狀況有出路啊所以你覺得現在我們懲處只懲處這10個人是不是\n\n07:55.430 --> 08:17.854\n目前分署長到雷超首四位還會不會再繼續針對這個個案我現在有看到新聞報導是你的名字啊你的名字表示海巡人員嚴陣以待等快艇靠岸立即逮人你的名字講說船停靠碼頭在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子給逮捕\n\n08:18.715 --> 08:26.589\n換言之你們是不是在第一時間你們上期場觀也接收到不對的一個資訊還是說你們明明知道正確的資訊但是你們想要美化\n\n08:27.657 --> 08:34.119\n11點10分這一艘快艇靠駁在渡船碼頭我們通常一車4人同時到現場所以11點10分是逮捕我們也有錄影帶這邊11點10分那這艘船是在11點10分靠駁碼頭剛才委員提醒的大概是在10點54分\n\n08:52.805 --> 08:54.647\n但是通報的時間是不是比業者都還要來得晚現在狀況就是\n\n09:09.534 --> 09:37.134\n副署長本席現在只講兩點點出來因為本席有跟業者通過電話也確實明白說當天的狀況業者他們很低調是因為他們覺得說這是無望之災但是重點在於是說我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客一個不知道他目的為何的人進入到我們的河口並且上岸來做相關甚至還有媒體報導我不知道你們有沒有看到還有更離譜的是這一個男子上岸然後跟別人借電話打\n\n09:38.854 --> 10:05.589\n有沒有這樣的狀況我們收到的資訊就是第1111點10分靠港我們通常在現場是所長帶著總共有4個人在現場當場逮捕所以副署長我覺得在這件事情上面我們在深度了解深度了解然後還有就是是不是這一波這樣子就結束了然後還有最重要的是他的目的到底為何國安局如果說沒有辦法告訴國人你適時的在\n\n10:06.630 --> 10:07.010\n接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.424,"end":21.678,"text":"局長、署長淡水河口是本席的選區我一直強調說我們第一線的海巡同仁其實非常的辛苦我們也都理解但是在這件事情上面其實非常離譜會有幾個狀況就是說讓大家覺得是說第一時間看到海巡的新聞稿跟相關的回應是說有全程掌握"},{"start":22.478,"end":43.551,"text":"有立即逮捕但後來發覺不是這麼回事但我想先請教的是現在海巡掌握說這一個陸籍男子他承認解放軍海軍還是艦艇的艇長的一個身份導致國內也會擔心說是不是有國安的破口那我們現在國安的系統有沒有來介入調查"},{"start":43.931,"end":59.796,"text":"有,我們有在了解當然已經在司法正辦了但是在過程當中特別他涉及到在對岸的身份以及過去有沒有一些活動的足跡以及跟中共的官方或軍方有沒有一些連結我們會來進行勾連好,那什麼時候可以對外跟國人說明"},{"start":61.237,"end":88.215,"text":"這是一個單一個案還是這是一個有計劃性的預謀犯案甚至有可能他配後有沒有人指使對我們剛剛在跟賴司法委員說明的時候也提到了各種可能性都有有可能是有計劃性的有官方的主導有可能是他個人行為那這部分我們要尊重檢查機關的調查的狀況那需要我們提供相關的情資我們會來配合辦理所以國安單位不會主動的跟國人說明因為國人現在已經這是一個重大事件"},{"start":89.156,"end":110.208,"text":"端午連假的時候突然間爆發然後昨天媒體頭版頭到今天大家也都關注那我想請教的是國人也會擔心啊這是單一個案還是有預謀性這是過去有沒有發生這樣的一個狀況大家現在看起來是第一例但是以現在的鬆散的程度我真的已經不敢想說是不是第一例"},{"start":111.158,"end":133.275,"text":"所以局長,你覺得沒有必要讓國人比較安心的瞭解這到底是什麼狀況嗎?對,這部分還在查證過程當中,尤其它涉及到它在中國內部的身份跟活動,這要花點時間來瞭解。我們會透過我們的管理團隊來瞭解。多久時間,還是你覺得是說到下個禮拜可能有新的議題出來之後,國人忘了,這件事情就傳過水無痕的方式?不會不會不會,我們都還會開專案的會議來針對這個個案來討論。"},{"start":136.618,"end":158.905,"text":"那是那如果說針對專案個案針對這個個案的部分那有沒有必要讓國人瞭解是說他到底是什麼情況?對大概有幾個部分第一部分當然會針對我們想要釐清的要不要說明?針對我們想要釐清的重點會請國安單位包括本局11個單位來進行情報的分工跟收集那會怎麼回來之後那假如檢察機關有需要的話我們會提供給檢察機關來參用"},{"start":161.383,"end":177.956,"text":"是嗎?但局長你還是沒有回答本席的問題啊本席現在是說是全國大家都華人也關注的一個重點但是國安單位瞭解了可是到最後你們不說明別剪掉那剪掉如果說又講說這偵查不公開或是說你又拖了三個月半年"},{"start":179.246,"end":180.807,"text":"這個艦艇的艇長的身份是海巡署這邊主動揭露的嗎?"},{"start":203.014,"end":228.47,"text":"初步遵循的話他是自己承認是那個中共海軍的少校是,所以你們就沒有檢調單位的這樣的一個狀況你們就可以說明是,但是我們不像剛剛我們國安局局長講是說不管怎麼樣我們可以調查釐清但是都要尊重檢調單位所以你們會再進一步什麼時候會了解他的意圖之後來跟國人說明"},{"start":230.473,"end":251.984,"text":"跟委員報告現在自營地緣署正在偵辦中那當然有涉及到偵查不公開相關細節是目前沒辦法對外說明那我們講剛剛你講啦是那個人他主動承認他以前是少校的身份這也是我們海巡之後在對媒體說的嘛是是那是啊這就沒有偵查不公開的問題是我們這部分只講大方向而已"},{"start":253.446,"end":278.782,"text":"什麼樣才叫大方向現在國人都關心更重要的是來謝副署長本席覺得最沒有辦法接受的地方是因為業者我之後也有跟業者來了解你的新聞稿以及第一時間告訴我們是什麼是這一個人當他停到碼頭的時候在旁等待的海巡人員立即把這個男子給逮捕"},{"start":279.775,"end":305.379,"text":"海巡人員嚴正以待當這一個人的快艇靠岸之後立即逮人這是你們第一時間的說法結果沒想到原來是這一個擦撞到交通船之後業者他上岸業者來問然後業者覺得他怪怪的業者主動打電話而且據本期了解業者第一通電話本來還不是打給海巡署對不對"},{"start":307.11,"end":331.69,"text":"跟委員報告我們接到電話184 10點54分10點54接到委員跟委員報告喔是啊業者跟本席透露的消息是說他第一通電話其實打給的是我們的警察單位因為業者會覺得是說根本沒有想過說怎麼會有那麼離譜的事情是由一個偷渡客上岸之後能夠在岸上趴趴走或是他坐他的船"},{"start":332.691,"end":361.537,"text":"所以第一個時間想的是說應該是我們警務單位警務單位在跟他建議是說趕快應該要通報海巡署所以業者打118118完之後半個小時後海巡人員才到現場把他也逮捕而且這半個小時的過程如果不是業者很負責任的或是有這種國家意識或是社會責任感盡可能的來留住這一個人這人可能早就跑掉了"},{"start":362.352,"end":377.543,"text":"委員跟委員釐清一下我們10點20分巴黎守望哨他就發現這艘船不是國籍船是但是重點是業者不清楚嘛是10點54分你們也沒有通報業者業者是被撞到之後他的船的船尾被撞到被插撞"},{"start":378.123,"end":404.619,"text":"然後他把那個人留下來聽他的口音不是我們本國籍的人但是覺得說奇怪照理講不可能有偷渡客可以來我們河口內嘛也因此才會覺得是說他可能是我們相關治安問題結果後來打給海巡署海巡署才半個小時後才到場那這半個小時的空窗期其實是有賴業者用國家意識用社會責任來把那個人留在那邊欸"},{"start":405.379,"end":407.94,"text":"所以我現在講的就是這一件問題會讓大家國人沒有辦法接受是兩個部分第一擦撞你們及時講說全程監控"},{"start":428.624,"end":449.571,"text":"但是那差狀有半個小時的理論的狀況而半小時的理論狀況如果說我們以一般在路上有發生車禍造勢逃逸有沒有那個人跑掉今天好家在是什麼是這一個人有被我們逮捕所以我們才可以了解說他背後有什麼樣身份以及等等後續的狀況如果今天那個人就是造勢逃逸了"},{"start":451.257,"end":472.531,"text":"現在大家都睡不著了第二為什麼第一時間海巡居然會去告訴我們是告訴國人說在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子逮捕說海巡人員嚴正以待靠岸之後立即逮人這分明跟現實狀況有出路啊所以你覺得現在我們懲處只懲處這10個人是不是"},{"start":475.43,"end":497.854,"text":"目前分署長到雷超首四位還會不會再繼續針對這個個案我現在有看到新聞報導是你的名字啊你的名字表示海巡人員嚴陣以待等快艇靠岸立即逮人你的名字講說船停靠碼頭在旁等待的海巡人員立即將這個男子給逮捕"},{"start":498.715,"end":506.589,"text":"換言之你們是不是在第一時間你們上期場觀也接收到不對的一個資訊還是說你們明明知道正確的資訊但是你們想要美化"},{"start":507.657,"end":514.119,"text":"11點10分這一艘快艇靠駁在渡船碼頭我們通常一車4人同時到現場所以11點10分是逮捕我們也有錄影帶這邊11點10分那這艘船是在11點10分靠駁碼頭剛才委員提醒的大概是在10點54分"},{"start":532.805,"end":534.647,"text":"但是通報的時間是不是比業者都還要來得晚現在狀況就是"},{"start":549.534,"end":577.134,"text":"副署長本席現在只講兩點點出來因為本席有跟業者通過電話也確實明白說當天的狀況業者他們很低調是因為他們覺得說這是無望之災但是重點在於是說我們怎麼會放任一個偷渡客一個不知道他目的為何的人進入到我們的河口並且上岸來做相關甚至還有媒體報導我不知道你們有沒有看到還有更離譜的是這一個男子上岸然後跟別人借電話打"},{"start":578.854,"end":605.589,"text":"有沒有這樣的狀況我們收到的資訊就是第1111點10分靠港我們通常在現場是所長帶著總共有4個人在現場當場逮捕所以副署長我覺得在這件事情上面我們在深度了解深度了解然後還有就是是不是這一波這樣子就結束了然後還有最重要的是他的目的到底為何國安局如果說沒有辦法告訴國人你適時的在"},{"start":606.63,"end":607.01,"text":"接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢"}]}}}}