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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,859 --> 00:00:22,120\n謝謝主席我請金國會彭主委有請彭主委喂你好彭主委我們金國會已經納管虛擬貨幣那麼這個產業四個階段從第一階段到第四階段當中第一階段已經完成了啦齁那這個推動設立那麼制定自律規範來管理這第二階段第三階段你們打算\n\n2\n00:00:48,166 --> 00:00:48,566\n李卓人議員\n\n3\n00:01:10,002 --> 00:01:29,057\n來對非法業者科以刑責、加以管理這個都對但是到目前為止我們變成只對平台不對個人啦針對這些個人戶那麼我們似乎沒有任何的對策\n\n4\n00:01:30,558 --> 00:01:46,705\n那麼從3年前110年6月開始事實上那麼金管委已經陸續有在推動那麼推動的就是說對於這個這些虛擬貨幣平台VASP做這個法尊\n\n5\n00:01:49,107 --> 00:02:07,895\n法尊聲明的這些管理可是110年6月到現在為止你們納管願意登記來成立的只有25家這25家全部都是法人都是公司沒有個人必商那\n\n6\n00:02:11,175 --> 00:02:21,920\n那個主委我認為個人避傷才是重點耶你看所有在涉入詐欺的幾乎啦\n\n7\n00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:47,648\n查證的結果幾乎都是個人避傷這些是最大的問題點所以我今天要問你的就是說在未來你再持續推動根據《洗錢防制法》推動VASP這樣子的過程當中對於個人避傷那麼我們應該如何來管理你的看法呢謝謝委員確實這是社會關注的點那我們稱為個人避傷其實\n\n8\n00:02:53,086 --> 00:03:10,161\n每個人對個人避傷的定義其實不太一樣那我們既然稱為傷他就必須要做商業登記跟稅籍登記才叫做傷我們現在很多想像是個人的行為這其實上我們必須要加以釐清他既然要成為這個合法他必須要登記\n\n9\n00:03:10,922 --> 00:03:37,899\n登記的前提是你要滿足我們對洗錢防制的要求剛剛比如委員指正的我們是說你要有一個標準的內控程序能夠完備還就是對洗錢的整個程序你要做到這件事情我才可能讓你這樣所以剛剛講說我們對個人避傷確實我們就開始逐步納管剛剛提到了第三階段裡面就是希望透過立法的強制力來對它做一個管理你如果說你要做這件事情的話\n\n10\n00:03:38,519 --> 00:03:43,959\n那你就好好的做好我們洗錢防制取得這個資格我們就讓你做大概是這個方式\n\n11\n00:03:44,949 --> 00:04:09,343\n因為這些詐騙的車手那麼利用這樣個人避傷那把錢交給他們用這個那同時一肝離骨啊還順便洗錢那前一陣子有一個這個檢察官他們的協會叫做建青協會那麼他們建青建改協會他們辦了這個研討會裡面啊\n\n12\n00:04:13,940 --> 00:04:30,989\n我去調他們說他們對這些詐欺犯罪他們的重視他們的一些看法裡面大概炮聲隆隆都在針對金管會尤其針對金管會完全不管個人避傷\n\n13\n00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:52,411\n那就我講的你的前任在這三年裡面他覺得說已經有依《洗錢防制法》那做了法尊聲明有25家來啦就以這25家交差了事但是就我剛剛講的個人避傷完全一點\n\n14\n00:04:53,700 --> 00:05:21,951\n都無動於衷對他們一點都莫可奈何我是認為說這不能只是對於願意守法的業者來加高他登記的這些門檻我們應該對這些個人券商還要有更積極的作為我現在看到的作為是還不夠啦以及現在除了這個個人券商以外\n\n15\n00:05:23,050 --> 00:05:51,838\n我認為像境外的境外那更不用講你個人的都完全束手無策的那境外的呢境外的更不用說啦還有再來我怕說這樣VASP這樣推行之後未來還會有一個問題啦就是說大家去把願意守法合法的公司把它法治化法尊說明之後\n\n16\n00:05:53,766 --> 00:06:15,386\n那這些是成立合法的交易場所囉那這些交易場所是不是就藉由他的合法性他是有牌的那他就把他整個牌子就賣掉啦就賣給這些詐騙集團洗錢集團不是嗎\n\n17\n00:06:16,724 --> 00:06:44,875\n所以我認為這一點我在你今天整篇的報告裡面我沒有看到你這個有什麼針對這一件事情有什麼這個防制方法所以我認為說如果未來一旦VASP這樣股權變動是不是我們要加一個要求股權變動一定要通報金管會而且要金管會同意你幹嘛呢\n\n18\n00:06:45,888 --> 00:07:06,676\n剛好委員指正的就是我們現在努力的方向第一個我們剛才講我們對《洗錢防制法》修正我們訂定一個執法登記的標準我們就把它放進來再來未來的專法的時候我們對這個機構的管理當然負責人還有股權的移轉當然是重點的重點重點的重點那有這種情形發生了嗎\n\n19\n00:07:08,353 --> 00:07:09,173\n那時間暫停我請一下今天刑事局有來齁有請黃副局長\n\n20\n00:07:37,355 --> 00:07:38,901\n那個欸行事局齁這個\n\n21\n00:07:42,082 --> 00:08:06,941\n其實現在打詐第一線就是警方啦其實警方是疲於奔命那他對於警方在打詐這麼積極的做其實我們社會各界都給予高度的評價我們認為現在打詐還這麼猖獗那問題不是在警方警方是有很認真的查可是我覺得對於我們員警已經很辛苦的員警\n\n22\n00:08:07,842 --> 00:08:15,657\n比方說在這個虛擬貨幣啦在這一些的交易上面我覺得齁很多員警他不知道說條碼就超商啊\n\n23\n00:08:20,087 --> 00:08:45,753\n這個超商上面這些條碼其實就是他們在交易虛擬貨幣這個不知道說這個用途是這樣所以導致當我們很多警方第一線的警員他不曉得的時候還必須再去針對這些條碼、字條去查證的結果這又多花了好幾天所以在這一個部分是不是要加強\n\n24\n00:08:46,693 --> 00:08:52,948\n對於我們第一線員警對他們的這一部分的教育這一個部分您看法呢?\n\n25\n00:08:54,957 --> 00:09:20,951\n謝謝委員的關心那有關這個超商裡面的一些金流洗金流的一些作為不僅包括這個還有包括遊戲點數也是那有一些這些購買這些虛擬資產的這個部分我們會再繼續的對員警來做教育我們也一直在講那個也會再做強化如果還有這種疏失的話我們會積極的再教育我們的同仁要多加注意這樣子\n\n26\n00:09:21,531 --> 00:09:34,779\n道高一尺魔高一丈永遠壞人他們的智慧永遠都是高於我們正道的人這一個部分你要一定要加強好不好時間在你你請回因為彭主委我剛講的那個人\n\n27\n00:09:40,799 --> 00:10:10,195\n必商這一個部分你的這個加強管理是不是你能夠你具有幾個方法你在事後再給我做一些這部分的報告好不好可以這個個人必商他們場外交易的這樣子的方式完全是現在我們看到的VASP這樣子的管理所沒辦法約束的而現在個人必商這個才是真正兩大重點第一個\n\n28\n00:10:10,895 --> 00:10:35,823\n詐欺他們詐騙集團使用最通行的方式個人避傷第二個洗錢如果有這種犯罪集團要洗錢大概都他不會去找你已經納管好的那25家他一定是找個人避傷這我相信你我大家心裡都非常清楚好不好\n\n29\n00:10:36,344 --> 00:10:39,014\n加強對個人避傷的管理\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18859\t22120\t謝謝主席我請金國會彭主委有請彭主委喂你好彭主委我們金國會已經納管虛擬貨幣那麼這個產業四個階段從第一階段到第四階段當中第一階段已經完成了啦齁那這個推動設立那麼制定自律規範來管理這第二階段第三階段你們打算\n48166\t48566\t李卓人議員\n70002\t89057\t來對非法業者科以刑責、加以管理這個都對但是到目前為止我們變成只對平台不對個人啦針對這些個人戶那麼我們似乎沒有任何的對策\n90558\t106705\t那麼從3年前110年6月開始事實上那麼金管委已經陸續有在推動那麼推動的就是說對於這個這些虛擬貨幣平台VASP做這個法尊\n109107\t127895\t法尊聲明的這些管理可是110年6月到現在為止你們納管願意登記來成立的只有25家這25家全部都是法人都是公司沒有個人必商那\n131175\t141920\t那個主委我認為個人避傷才是重點耶你看所有在涉入詐欺的幾乎啦\n143430\t167648\t查證的結果幾乎都是個人避傷這些是最大的問題點所以我今天要問你的就是說在未來你再持續推動根據《洗錢防制法》推動VASP這樣子的過程當中對於個人避傷那麼我們應該如何來管理你的看法呢謝謝委員確實這是社會關注的點那我們稱為個人避傷其實\n173086\t190161\t每個人對個人避傷的定義其實不太一樣那我們既然稱為傷他就必須要做商業登記跟稅籍登記才叫做傷我們現在很多想像是個人的行為這其實上我們必須要加以釐清他既然要成為這個合法他必須要登記\n190922\t217899\t登記的前提是你要滿足我們對洗錢防制的要求剛剛比如委員指正的我們是說你要有一個標準的內控程序能夠完備還就是對洗錢的整個程序你要做到這件事情我才可能讓你這樣所以剛剛講說我們對個人避傷確實我們就開始逐步納管剛剛提到了第三階段裡面就是希望透過立法的強制力來對它做一個管理你如果說你要做這件事情的話\n218519\t223959\t那你就好好的做好我們洗錢防制取得這個資格我們就讓你做大概是這個方式\n224949\t249343\t因為這些詐騙的車手那麼利用這樣個人避傷那把錢交給他們用這個那同時一肝離骨啊還順便洗錢那前一陣子有一個這個檢察官他們的協會叫做建青協會那麼他們建青建改協會他們辦了這個研討會裡面啊\n253940\t270989\t我去調他們說他們對這些詐欺犯罪他們的重視他們的一些看法裡面大概炮聲隆隆都在針對金管會尤其針對金管會完全不管個人避傷\n272520\t292411\t那就我講的 你的前任在這三年裡面他覺得說 已經有依《洗錢防制法》那做了法尊聲明有25家來啦就以這25家交差了事但是就我剛剛講的 個人避傷完全一點\n293700\t321951\t都無動於衷對他們一點都莫可奈何我是認為說這不能只是對於願意守法的業者來加高他登記的這些門檻我們應該對這些個人券商還要有更積極的作為我現在看到的作為是還不夠啦以及現在除了這個個人券商以外\n323050\t351838\t我認為像境外的境外那更不用講你個人的都完全束手無策的那境外的呢境外的更不用說啦還有再來我怕說這樣VASP這樣推行之後未來還會有一個問題啦就是說大家去把願意守法合法的公司把它法治化法尊說明之後\n353766\t375386\t那這些是成立合法的交易場所囉那這些交易場所是不是就藉由他的合法性他是有牌的那他就把他整個牌子就賣掉啦就賣給這些詐騙集團洗錢集團不是嗎\n376724\t404875\t所以我認為這一點我在你今天整篇的報告裡面我沒有看到你這個有什麼針對這一件事情有什麼這個防制方法所以我認為說如果未來一旦VASP這樣股權變動是不是我們要加一個要求股權變動一定要通報金管會而且要金管會同意你幹嘛呢\n405888\t426676\t剛好委員指正的就是我們現在努力的方向第一個我們剛才講我們對《洗錢防制法》修正我們訂定一個執法登記的標準我們就把它放進來再來未來的專法的時候我們對這個機構的管理當然負責人還有股權的移轉當然是重點的重點重點的重點那有這種情形發生了嗎\n428353\t429173\t那時間暫停我請一下今天刑事局有來齁有請黃副局長\n457355\t458901\t那個 欸 行事局齁這個\n462082\t486941\t其實現在打詐第一線就是警方啦其實警方是疲於奔命那他對於警方在打詐這麼積極的做其實我們社會各界都給予高度的評價我們認為現在打詐還這麼猖獗那問題不是在警方警方是有很認真的查可是我覺得對於我們員警已經很辛苦的員警\n487842\t495657\t比方說在這個虛擬貨幣啦在這一些的交易上面我覺得齁 很多員警他不知道說條碼就超商啊\n500087\t525753\t這個超商上面這些條碼其實就是他們在交易虛擬貨幣這個不知道說這個用途是這樣所以導致當我們很多警方第一線的警員他不曉得的時候還必須再去針對這些條碼、字條去查證的結果這又多花了好幾天所以在這一個部分是不是要加強\n526693\t532948\t對於我們第一線員警對他們的這一部分的教育這一個部分您看法呢?\n534957\t560951\t謝謝委員的關心那有關這個超商裡面的一些金流洗金流的一些作為不僅包括這個還有包括遊戲點數也是那有一些這些購買這些虛擬資產的這個部分我們會再繼續的對員警來做教育我們也一直在講那個也會再做強化如果還有這種疏失的話我們會積極的再教育我們的同仁要多加注意這樣子\n561531\t574779\t道高一尺魔高一丈永遠壞人他們的智慧永遠都是高於我們正道的人這一個部分你要一定要加強好不好時間在你你請回因為彭主委我剛講的那個人\n580799\t610195\t必商這一個部分你的這個加強管理是不是你能夠你具有幾個方法你在事後再給我做一些這部分的報告好不好可以這個個人必商他們場外交易的這樣子的方式完全是現在我們看到的VASP這樣子的管理所沒辦法約束的而現在個人必商這個才是真正兩大重點第一個\n610895\t635823\t詐欺他們詐騙集團使用最通行的方式個人避傷第二個洗錢如果有這種犯罪集團要洗錢大概都他不會去找你已經納管好的那25家他一定是找個人避傷這我相信你我大家心裡都非常清楚好不好\n636344\t639014\t加強對個人避傷的管理\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請金國會彭主委有請彭主委喂你好彭主委我們金國會已經納管虛擬貨幣那麼這個產業四個階段從第一階段到第四階段當中第一階段已經完成了啦齁那這個推動設立那麼制定自律規範來管理這第二階段第三階段你們打算\n李卓人議員\n來對非法業者科以刑責、加以管理這個都對但是到目前為止我們變成只對平台不對個人啦針對這些個人戶那麼我們似乎沒有任何的對策\n那麼從3年前110年6月開始事實上那麼金管委已經陸續有在推動那麼推動的就是說對於這個這些虛擬貨幣平台VASP做這個法尊\n法尊聲明的這些管理可是110年6月到現在為止你們納管願意登記來成立的只有25家這25家全部都是法人都是公司沒有個人必商那\n那個主委我認為個人避傷才是重點耶你看所有在涉入詐欺的幾乎啦\n查證的結果幾乎都是個人避傷這些是最大的問題點所以我今天要問你的就是說在未來你再持續推動根據《洗錢防制法》推動VASP這樣子的過程當中對於個人避傷那麼我們應該如何來管理你的看法呢謝謝委員確實這是社會關注的點那我們稱為個人避傷其實\n每個人對個人避傷的定義其實不太一樣那我們既然稱為傷他就必須要做商業登記跟稅籍登記才叫做傷我們現在很多想像是個人的行為這其實上我們必須要加以釐清他既然要成為這個合法他必須要登記\n登記的前提是你要滿足我們對洗錢防制的要求剛剛比如委員指正的我們是說你要有一個標準的內控程序能夠完備還就是對洗錢的整個程序你要做到這件事情我才可能讓你這樣所以剛剛講說我們對個人避傷確實我們就開始逐步納管剛剛提到了第三階段裡面就是希望透過立法的強制力來對它做一個管理你如果說你要做這件事情的話\n那你就好好的做好我們洗錢防制取得這個資格我們就讓你做大概是這個方式\n因為這些詐騙的車手那麼利用這樣個人避傷那把錢交給他們用這個那同時一肝離骨啊還順便洗錢那前一陣子有一個這個檢察官他們的協會叫做建青協會那麼他們建青建改協會他們辦了這個研討會裡面啊\n我去調他們說他們對這些詐欺犯罪他們的重視他們的一些看法裡面大概炮聲隆隆都在針對金管會尤其針對金管會完全不管個人避傷\n那就我講的 你的前任在這三年裡面他覺得說 已經有依《洗錢防制法》那做了法尊聲明有25家來啦就以這25家交差了事但是就我剛剛講的 個人避傷完全一點\n都無動於衷對他們一點都莫可奈何我是認為說這不能只是對於願意守法的業者來加高他登記的這些門檻我們應該對這些個人券商還要有更積極的作為我現在看到的作為是還不夠啦以及現在除了這個個人券商以外\n我認為像境外的境外那更不用講你個人的都完全束手無策的那境外的呢境外的更不用說啦還有再來我怕說這樣VASP這樣推行之後未來還會有一個問題啦就是說大家去把願意守法合法的公司把它法治化法尊說明之後\n那這些是成立合法的交易場所囉那這些交易場所是不是就藉由他的合法性他是有牌的那他就把他整個牌子就賣掉啦就賣給這些詐騙集團洗錢集團不是嗎\n所以我認為這一點我在你今天整篇的報告裡面我沒有看到你這個有什麼針對這一件事情有什麼這個防制方法所以我認為說如果未來一旦VASP這樣股權變動是不是我們要加一個要求股權變動一定要通報金管會而且要金管會同意你幹嘛呢\n剛好委員指正的就是我們現在努力的方向第一個我們剛才講我們對《洗錢防制法》修正我們訂定一個執法登記的標準我們就把它放進來再來未來的專法的時候我們對這個機構的管理當然負責人還有股權的移轉當然是重點的重點重點的重點那有這種情形發生了嗎\n那時間暫停我請一下今天刑事局有來齁有請黃副局長\n那個 欸 行事局齁這個\n其實現在打詐第一線就是警方啦其實警方是疲於奔命那他對於警方在打詐這麼積極的做其實我們社會各界都給予高度的評價我們認為現在打詐還這麼猖獗那問題不是在警方警方是有很認真的查可是我覺得對於我們員警已經很辛苦的員警\n比方說在這個虛擬貨幣啦在這一些的交易上面我覺得齁 很多員警他不知道說條碼就超商啊\n這個超商上面這些條碼其實就是他們在交易虛擬貨幣這個不知道說這個用途是這樣所以導致當我們很多警方第一線的警員他不曉得的時候還必須再去針對這些條碼、字條去查證的結果這又多花了好幾天所以在這一個部分是不是要加強\n對於我們第一線員警對他們的這一部分的教育這一個部分您看法呢?\n謝謝委員的關心那有關這個超商裡面的一些金流洗金流的一些作為不僅包括這個還有包括遊戲點數也是那有一些這些購買這些虛擬資產的這個部分我們會再繼續的對員警來做教育我們也一直在講那個也會再做強化如果還有這種疏失的話我們會積極的再教育我們的同仁要多加注意這樣子\n道高一尺魔高一丈永遠壞人他們的智慧永遠都是高於我們正道的人這一個部分你要一定要加強好不好時間在你你請回因為彭主委我剛講的那個人\n必商這一個部分你的這個加強管理是不是你能夠你具有幾個方法你在事後再給我做一些這部分的報告好不好可以這個個人必商他們場外交易的這樣子的方式完全是現在我們看到的VASP這樣子的管理所沒辦法約束的而現在個人必商這個才是真正兩大重點第一個\n詐欺他們詐騙集團使用最通行的方式個人避傷第二個洗錢如果有這種犯罪集團要洗錢大概都他不會去找你已經納管好的那25家他一定是找個人避傷這我相信你我大家心裡都非常清楚好不好\n加強對個人避傷的管理\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.859 --> 00:22.120\n謝謝主席我請金國會彭主委有請彭主委喂你好彭主委我們金國會已經納管虛擬貨幣那麼這個產業四個階段從第一階段到第四階段當中第一階段已經完成了啦齁那這個推動設立那麼制定自律規範來管理這第二階段第三階段你們打算\n\n00:48.166 --> 00:48.566\n李卓人議員\n\n01:10.002 --> 01:29.057\n來對非法業者科以刑責、加以管理這個都對但是到目前為止我們變成只對平台不對個人啦針對這些個人戶那麼我們似乎沒有任何的對策\n\n01:30.558 --> 01:46.705\n那麼從3年前110年6月開始事實上那麼金管委已經陸續有在推動那麼推動的就是說對於這個這些虛擬貨幣平台VASP做這個法尊\n\n01:49.107 --> 02:07.895\n法尊聲明的這些管理可是110年6月到現在為止你們納管願意登記來成立的只有25家這25家全部都是法人都是公司沒有個人必商那\n\n02:11.175 --> 02:21.920\n那個主委我認為個人避傷才是重點耶你看所有在涉入詐欺的幾乎啦\n\n02:23.430 --> 02:47.648\n查證的結果幾乎都是個人避傷這些是最大的問題點所以我今天要問你的就是說在未來你再持續推動根據《洗錢防制法》推動VASP這樣子的過程當中對於個人避傷那麼我們應該如何來管理你的看法呢謝謝委員確實這是社會關注的點那我們稱為個人避傷其實\n\n02:53.086 --> 03:10.161\n每個人對個人避傷的定義其實不太一樣那我們既然稱為傷他就必須要做商業登記跟稅籍登記才叫做傷我們現在很多想像是個人的行為這其實上我們必須要加以釐清他既然要成為這個合法他必須要登記\n\n03:10.922 --> 03:37.899\n登記的前提是你要滿足我們對洗錢防制的要求剛剛比如委員指正的我們是說你要有一個標準的內控程序能夠完備還就是對洗錢的整個程序你要做到這件事情我才可能讓你這樣所以剛剛講說我們對個人避傷確實我們就開始逐步納管剛剛提到了第三階段裡面就是希望透過立法的強制力來對它做一個管理你如果說你要做這件事情的話\n\n03:38.519 --> 03:43.959\n那你就好好的做好我們洗錢防制取得這個資格我們就讓你做大概是這個方式\n\n03:44.949 --> 04:09.343\n因為這些詐騙的車手那麼利用這樣個人避傷那把錢交給他們用這個那同時一肝離骨啊還順便洗錢那前一陣子有一個這個檢察官他們的協會叫做建青協會那麼他們建青建改協會他們辦了這個研討會裡面啊\n\n04:13.940 --> 04:30.989\n我去調他們說他們對這些詐欺犯罪他們的重視他們的一些看法裡面大概炮聲隆隆都在針對金管會尤其針對金管會完全不管個人避傷\n\n04:32.520 --> 04:52.411\n那就我講的你的前任在這三年裡面他覺得說已經有依《洗錢防制法》那做了法尊聲明有25家來啦就以這25家交差了事但是就我剛剛講的個人避傷完全一點\n\n04:53.700 --> 05:21.951\n都無動於衷對他們一點都莫可奈何我是認為說這不能只是對於願意守法的業者來加高他登記的這些門檻我們應該對這些個人券商還要有更積極的作為我現在看到的作為是還不夠啦以及現在除了這個個人券商以外\n\n05:23.050 --> 05:51.838\n我認為像境外的境外那更不用講你個人的都完全束手無策的那境外的呢境外的更不用說啦還有再來我怕說這樣VASP這樣推行之後未來還會有一個問題啦就是說大家去把願意守法合法的公司把它法治化法尊說明之後\n\n05:53.766 --> 06:15.386\n那這些是成立合法的交易場所囉那這些交易場所是不是就藉由他的合法性他是有牌的那他就把他整個牌子就賣掉啦就賣給這些詐騙集團洗錢集團不是嗎\n\n06:16.724 --> 06:44.875\n所以我認為這一點我在你今天整篇的報告裡面我沒有看到你這個有什麼針對這一件事情有什麼這個防制方法所以我認為說如果未來一旦VASP這樣股權變動是不是我們要加一個要求股權變動一定要通報金管會而且要金管會同意你幹嘛呢\n\n06:45.888 --> 07:06.676\n剛好委員指正的就是我們現在努力的方向第一個我們剛才講我們對《洗錢防制法》修正我們訂定一個執法登記的標準我們就把它放進來再來未來的專法的時候我們對這個機構的管理當然負責人還有股權的移轉當然是重點的重點重點的重點那有這種情形發生了嗎\n\n07:08.353 --> 07:09.173\n那時間暫停我請一下今天刑事局有來齁有請黃副局長\n\n07:37.355 --> 07:38.901\n那個欸行事局齁這個\n\n07:42.082 --> 08:06.941\n其實現在打詐第一線就是警方啦其實警方是疲於奔命那他對於警方在打詐這麼積極的做其實我們社會各界都給予高度的評價我們認為現在打詐還這麼猖獗那問題不是在警方警方是有很認真的查可是我覺得對於我們員警已經很辛苦的員警\n\n08:07.842 --> 08:15.657\n比方說在這個虛擬貨幣啦在這一些的交易上面我覺得齁很多員警他不知道說條碼就超商啊\n\n08:20.087 --> 08:45.753\n這個超商上面這些條碼其實就是他們在交易虛擬貨幣這個不知道說這個用途是這樣所以導致當我們很多警方第一線的警員他不曉得的時候還必須再去針對這些條碼、字條去查證的結果這又多花了好幾天所以在這一個部分是不是要加強\n\n08:46.693 --> 08:52.948\n對於我們第一線員警對他們的這一部分的教育這一個部分您看法呢?\n\n08:54.957 --> 09:20.951\n謝謝委員的關心那有關這個超商裡面的一些金流洗金流的一些作為不僅包括這個還有包括遊戲點數也是那有一些這些購買這些虛擬資產的這個部分我們會再繼續的對員警來做教育我們也一直在講那個也會再做強化如果還有這種疏失的話我們會積極的再教育我們的同仁要多加注意這樣子\n\n09:21.531 --> 09:34.779\n道高一尺魔高一丈永遠壞人他們的智慧永遠都是高於我們正道的人這一個部分你要一定要加強好不好時間在你你請回因為彭主委我剛講的那個人\n\n09:40.799 --> 10:10.195\n必商這一個部分你的這個加強管理是不是你能夠你具有幾個方法你在事後再給我做一些這部分的報告好不好可以這個個人必商他們場外交易的這樣子的方式完全是現在我們看到的VASP這樣子的管理所沒辦法約束的而現在個人必商這個才是真正兩大重點第一個\n\n10:10.895 --> 10:35.823\n詐欺他們詐騙集團使用最通行的方式個人避傷第二個洗錢如果有這種犯罪集團要洗錢大概都他不會去找你已經納管好的那25家他一定是找個人避傷這我相信你我大家心裡都非常清楚好不好\n\n10:36.344 --> 10:39.014\n加強對個人避傷的管理\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.859,"end":22.12,"text":"謝謝主席我請金國會彭主委有請彭主委喂你好彭主委我們金國會已經納管虛擬貨幣那麼這個產業四個階段從第一階段到第四階段當中第一階段已經完成了啦齁那這個推動設立那麼制定自律規範來管理這第二階段第三階段你們打算"},{"start":48.166,"end":48.566,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":70.002,"end":89.057,"text":"來對非法業者科以刑責、加以管理這個都對但是到目前為止我們變成只對平台不對個人啦針對這些個人戶那麼我們似乎沒有任何的對策"},{"start":90.558,"end":106.705,"text":"那麼從3年前110年6月開始事實上那麼金管委已經陸續有在推動那麼推動的就是說對於這個這些虛擬貨幣平台VASP做這個法尊"},{"start":109.107,"end":127.895,"text":"法尊聲明的這些管理可是110年6月到現在為止你們納管願意登記來成立的只有25家這25家全部都是法人都是公司沒有個人必商那"},{"start":131.175,"end":141.92,"text":"那個主委我認為個人避傷才是重點耶你看所有在涉入詐欺的幾乎啦"},{"start":143.43,"end":167.648,"text":"查證的結果幾乎都是個人避傷這些是最大的問題點所以我今天要問你的就是說在未來你再持續推動根據《洗錢防制法》推動VASP這樣子的過程當中對於個人避傷那麼我們應該如何來管理你的看法呢謝謝委員確實這是社會關注的點那我們稱為個人避傷其實"},{"start":173.086,"end":190.161,"text":"每個人對個人避傷的定義其實不太一樣那我們既然稱為傷他就必須要做商業登記跟稅籍登記才叫做傷我們現在很多想像是個人的行為這其實上我們必須要加以釐清他既然要成為這個合法他必須要登記"},{"start":190.922,"end":217.899,"text":"登記的前提是你要滿足我們對洗錢防制的要求剛剛比如委員指正的我們是說你要有一個標準的內控程序能夠完備還就是對洗錢的整個程序你要做到這件事情我才可能讓你這樣所以剛剛講說我們對個人避傷確實我們就開始逐步納管剛剛提到了第三階段裡面就是希望透過立法的強制力來對它做一個管理你如果說你要做這件事情的話"},{"start":218.519,"end":223.959,"text":"那你就好好的做好我們洗錢防制取得這個資格我們就讓你做大概是這個方式"},{"start":224.949,"end":249.343,"text":"因為這些詐騙的車手那麼利用這樣個人避傷那把錢交給他們用這個那同時一肝離骨啊還順便洗錢那前一陣子有一個這個檢察官他們的協會叫做建青協會那麼他們建青建改協會他們辦了這個研討會裡面啊"},{"start":253.94,"end":270.989,"text":"我去調他們說他們對這些詐欺犯罪他們的重視他們的一些看法裡面大概炮聲隆隆都在針對金管會尤其針對金管會完全不管個人避傷"},{"start":272.52,"end":292.411,"text":"那就我講的 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行事局齁這個"},{"start":462.082,"end":486.941,"text":"其實現在打詐第一線就是警方啦其實警方是疲於奔命那他對於警方在打詐這麼積極的做其實我們社會各界都給予高度的評價我們認為現在打詐還這麼猖獗那問題不是在警方警方是有很認真的查可是我覺得對於我們員警已經很辛苦的員警"},{"start":487.842,"end":495.657,"text":"比方說在這個虛擬貨幣啦在這一些的交易上面我覺得齁 很多員警他不知道說條碼就超商啊"},{"start":500.087,"end":525.753,"text":"這個超商上面這些條碼其實就是他們在交易虛擬貨幣這個不知道說這個用途是這樣所以導致當我們很多警方第一線的警員他不曉得的時候還必須再去針對這些條碼、字條去查證的結果這又多花了好幾天所以在這一個部分是不是要加強"},{"start":526.693,"end":532.948,"text":"對於我們第一線員警對他們的這一部分的教育這一個部分您看法呢?"},{"start":534.957,"end":560.951,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那有關這個超商裡面的一些金流洗金流的一些作為不僅包括這個還有包括遊戲點數也是那有一些這些購買這些虛擬資產的這個部分我們會再繼續的對員警來做教育我們也一直在講那個也會再做強化如果還有這種疏失的話我們會積極的再教育我們的同仁要多加注意這樣子"},{"start":561.531,"end":574.779,"text":"道高一尺魔高一丈永遠壞人他們的智慧永遠都是高於我們正道的人這一個部分你要一定要加強好不好時間在你你請回因為彭主委我剛講的那個人"},{"start":580.799,"end":610.195,"text":"必商這一個部分你的這個加強管理是不是你能夠你具有幾個方法你在事後再給我做一些這部分的報告好不好可以這個個人必商他們場外交易的這樣子的方式完全是現在我們看到的VASP這樣子的管理所沒辦法約束的而現在個人必商這個才是真正兩大重點第一個"},{"start":610.895,"end":635.823,"text":"詐欺他們詐騙集團使用最通行的方式個人避傷第二個洗錢如果有這種犯罪集團要洗錢大概都他不會去找你已經納管好的那25家他一定是找個人避傷這我相信你我大家心裡都非常清楚好不好"},{"start":636.344,"end":639.014,"text":"加強對個人避傷的管理"}]}}}}