{"id":153891,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153891","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81947c0a787d11eaf9659a48fe1a1d57c38dc42bf70e43d78a9b2e2f3909ef031385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"12:12:08 - 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{\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 476.828, \"end\": 477.069, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 477.069, \"end\": 477.269, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 477.269, \"end\": 477.709, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 477.709, \"end\": 478.089, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"儀\"}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 478.089, \"end\": 478.209, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 478.209, \"end\": 478.309, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 478.309, \"end\": 478.489, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 478.489, \"end\": 479.169, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 479.169, \"end\": 479.31, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 479.31, \"end\": 479.51, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 479.51, \"end\": 479.83, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 479.83, \"end\": 480.05, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 587.541, \"end\": 587.581, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"愛\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 587.581, \"end\": 587.601, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 587.601, \"end\": 587.621, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 587.621, \"end\": 587.641, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 587.641, \"end\": 587.661, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,747 --> 00:00:17,769\n請蔡局長還有NCC的翁副指委、中華電信的林副總經理\n\n2\n00:00:39,785 --> 00:01:01,035\n局長你現在這個國安應該很擔心你看一方面是陸船直接開進了這個淡水了另外一方面有執政黨的中央政策會的執行長可能像老大哥一樣監控了我們的臺灣的民眾包括小草跟青鳥另外還有執政黨的立法委員說要對我們臺灣幾十萬的\n\n3\n00:01:04,313 --> 00:01:29,356\n幾十萬的高風險勤的人,包括陸配,要做監控你就是這麼煩惱,我先問你第一個問題古歷雄啊,我們講的北中先講啊,他說要行使這個自衛權的條件是什麼?共軍,只要是共軍侵入我們12海裡的領空或者是領海,結果造成這個事情快艇都開進來了,都直接衝到這個淡水上面去啦,淡水河啦\n\n4\n00:01:31,052 --> 00:01:44,259\n我們有行使我們的智慧權嗎?我們有完全的掌握有逮捕人嗎?對,而這部分的處理剛剛還是...裡面是不是漏洞百出?搞不清楚為止三個版本啊,還多不起來啊我們國安是不是出了一個很大的漏洞?\n\n5\n00:01:44,958 --> 00:02:08,509\n對,海巡這部分有做一些查處的動作那也有釐清整個案情過程當中還有哪些疑點要進一步的來進行調查不只是責任要追究,這個漏洞要趕快補起來,趕快剝剖吧第二個我要談的是昨天王逸川已經被別檢已經約談了他講的是什麼?有啊,他說他照資料去比對啊那就有資料啊剛才國產問一個問題\n\n6\n00:02:11,317 --> 00:02:33,276\n市方電信是中華電信的關係企業,對不對?他剛拿出來的,鐵錚錚的,台南市政府他承攬了台南市政府的業務,我再給大家看一張他還承攬了蔡英文總統的數據分析,看這個大家看一下為一百五十年的總統大選開始蔡英文總統選總統的時候,輿情監測\n\n7\n00:02:40,487 --> 00:03:06,392\n還有移情分析費用到了109年還有三筆做什麼數據的費用數據的分析分析分析這個數據的費用我要問局長跟中華電信四方是中華電信的關係企業一方面我們的立委從習巧芯到黃國昌指正立例\n\n8\n00:03:08,783 --> 00:03:31,756\n王毅川的資料是他給的我現在更進一步給大家看蔡英文總統跟他也有業務上的交往現在是不是國安單位跟NCC要去查清楚這部分可能還是要確認一下相關的所謂的業務有沒有涉及到他的資料是有沒有去識別化還是非去識別化這是第一個法律要件要釐清的但是因為\n\n9\n00:03:34,537 --> 00:03:51,323\n但是因為這個案子檢調已經在查二來是國安局我們並沒有司法調查權那對於這個相關的資訊可能細節上可能中華電信這邊可以比較…NCC跟中華電信至少要做兩件事情第一你的一些資料都在那個地方對不對\n\n10\n00:03:53,103 --> 00:04:09,702\n這Data有沒有外流這個應該查得你一直在搖頭你沒有去查怎麼知道他有沒有外流對不對要不然第二個民眾一定有個疑問嘛那四方四方跟人家業務業務合作他明明沒這個業務啊他跟台南市政府也沒有這個業務啊他為什麼可以做這個事情資料從哪邊來\n\n11\n00:04:13,874 --> 00:04:42,045\n只有三家電信有這個資料嘛對不對那現在關機密順便掀起中華電信啊現在不是你搖頭耶這是一個客觀的事實啊你最好去查啊是不是這樣NCC要去查檢調人要查那個有關於四方的假使電信服務的部分我們會去查還對OK會進去嘛來來局長我再問你一個最近還有一個也是蠻嚴重的問題引起蠻大的恐慌的這陣動的立法委員沈博洋\n\n12\n00:04:43,322 --> 00:05:10,857\n他直接挑戰你們,他是接受針訪的時候,他直接說他說啊國安局啊很難對國內人士做針訪他說台灣應該要一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險的高風險群要進行控管這兩個人裡面,有兩個叫你管的第一,他說你國安局那麼努力可是\n\n13\n00:05:12,386 --> 00:05:16,615\n你對國內的某些可能會被滲透或者第五縱隊你是沒辦法做申訪嗎?\n\n14\n00:05:18,472 --> 00:05:44,097\n這部分剛剛早上黃蓮委員也有在關切我們做過相關的說明也就是說這幾年我們在國安團隊進行國安案件的偵辦非常的積極那去年到現在已經有偵辦了81個案件那檢方起訴有39個案件那這已經是歷來最大的數字你贊不贊成說台灣應該要有一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險群進行控管你有贊成這個意見嗎\n\n15\n00:05:44,957 --> 00:05:57,411\n我想委員對於一些怎麼樣來強化國安的一些討論或建議我們都尊重但是我要特別強調尊重現在引起那麼多人的恐慌你尊重喔國安局長對於這樣的一個要監控監控幾十萬人你是尊重的嗎\n\n16\n00:06:00,635 --> 00:06:00,975\n沈博洋講的高風險情\n\n17\n00:06:17,329 --> 00:06:19,610\n中共可能威脅在中國做生意．或者有蹊蹺在中國的人．包括陸配,38萬\n\n18\n00:06:50,383 --> 00:07:10,447\n我們在偵辦國安案件或共諜案一定要有法律的依據那這也是為什麼我們國安團隊在偵辦相關的案件要依照國安法跟反滲透法的法律要件來蒐證有的話才會移送檢調單位來偵辦那我們蒐證結果到底檢調單位特別是院方最後怎麼裁法這我們尊重司法的判決\n\n19\n00:07:11,267 --> 00:07:37,129\n市長裡面有一個很重要的點被點名是高風險的包括立法委員、傳理長、陸配就在台灣有這麼多人你怎麼讓這些人覺得他不是被欺負的有可能會被監控怎麼讓他們安心我剛剛跟委員說明就在這一部分我們的所有的偵辦國安案件都一定要有法律當基礎這就是我們民主法治國家最基本的標準黑熊協議有很多民間的這個機構他做一些民防的這個沒有什麼不同\n\n20\n00:07:38,120 --> 00:08:01,951\n可是他創辦人現任的立法委員也是執政黨不溫區男性第一名包括另外一個爭議性人物我們剛才在講的王逸川民進黨中央政策會執行長他們現在代表是什麼是執政黨的一個意念的一個表達嗎他不約而同裡面都提到什麼要監控人民的意圖跟儀式的作為這是不是一種民主倒退是不是一種白色恐怖\n\n21\n00:08:02,964 --> 00:08:30,341\n我們台灣以前經歷了白色恐怖之後現在要來一個綠色的恐怖嗎?歷史的教訓還不過嗎?國安局有責任讓全民是可以安心的國安局有相關的監控措施也不是不可以可是一定要得到可靠的情報對不對?有可靠的就像你說的有可靠的情報之後你才能夠針對某個個人或團體做監聽嘛可是現在不是啊\n\n22\n00:08:31,461 --> 00:08:48,859\n在民進黨裡面不管是王逸川講的或者是邢博安講的他是什麼他先把某個族群把他化成說是可能的敵人這個在民主國家裡面不是很危險荒謬的事嗎在自己的國家裡面去製造敵人把自己劃分出去錄片就有38萬人\n\n23\n00:08:51,363 --> 00:09:17,356\n局長,38萬的陸配現在是你們的監控對象嗎?沒有,我剛剛一直在強調的是,針對相關國安案件的偵辦,假如要涉及到有通訊監察的話,一定要走非常嚴謹的法律跟行政程序。國安局並不是發動單位,必須要由司法警察機關,包括警政署、縣警調有這樣的需求送到國安局,國安局進行審核,再由高等法院法官來進行。\n\n24\n00:09:18,777 --> 00:09:31,529\n透過今天這個執行讓所謂沈博洋講的高風險型的這些人能夠安心他不是會變心痛這是依照法律來這是依照法律來這是一個第二個我們最後要強調的我們只要是愛台灣認同台灣的人都是台灣啦\n\n25\n00:09:35,168 --> 00:09:47,661\n只要愛台灣、認同台灣人、恭喜台灣人不要在自己的國內再找敵人了不要再撕裂整個社會操作對立了國安局的任務非常重要好不好是,國安案件正辦,依法行政愛我們的台灣人,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10747\t17769\t請蔡局長還有NCC的翁副指委、中華電信的林副總經理\n39785\t61035\t局長你現在這個國安應該很擔心你看一方面是陸船直接開進了這個淡水了另外一方面有執政黨的中央政策會的執行長可能像老大哥一樣監控了我們的臺灣的民眾包括小草跟青鳥另外還有執政黨的立法委員說要對我們臺灣幾十萬的\n64313\t89356\t幾十萬的高風險勤的人,包括陸配,要做監控你就是這麼煩惱,我先問你第一個問題古歷雄啊,我們講的北中先講啊,他說要行使這個自衛權的條件是什麼?共軍,只要是共軍侵入我們12海裡的領空或者是領海,結果造成這個事情快艇都開進來了,都直接衝到這個淡水上面去啦,淡水河啦\n91052\t104259\t我們有行使我們的智慧權嗎?我們有完全的掌握有逮捕人嗎?對,而這部分的處理剛剛還是...裡面是不是漏洞百出?搞不清楚為止三個版本啊,還多不起來啊我們國安是不是出了一個很大的漏洞?\n104958\t128509\t對,海巡這部分有做一些查處的動作那也有釐清整個案情過程當中還有哪些疑點要進一步的來進行調查不只是責任要追究,這個漏洞要趕快補起來,趕快剝剖吧第二個我要談的是昨天王逸川已經被別檢已經約談了他講的是什麼?有啊,他說他照資料去比對啊那就有資料啊剛才國產問一個問題\n131317\t153276\t市方電信是中華電信的關係企業,對不對?他剛拿出來的,鐵錚錚的,台南市政府他承攬了台南市政府的業務,我再給大家看一張他還承攬了蔡英文總統的數據分析,看這個大家看一下為一百五十年的總統大選開始蔡英文總統選總統的時候,輿情監測\n160487\t186392\t還有移情分析費用到了109年還有三筆做什麼數據的費用數據的分析分析分析這個數據的費用我要問局長跟中華電信四方是中華電信的關係企業一方面我們的立委從習巧芯到黃國昌指正立例\n188783\t211756\t王毅川的資料是他給的我現在更進一步給大家看蔡英文總統跟他也有業務上的交往現在是不是國安單位跟NCC要去查清楚這部分可能還是要確認一下相關的所謂的業務有沒有涉及到他的資料是有沒有去識別化還是非去識別化這是第一個法律要件要釐清的但是因為\n214537\t231323\t但是因為這個案子檢調已經在查二來是國安局我們並沒有司法調查權那對於這個相關的資訊可能細節上可能中華電信這邊可以比較…NCC跟中華電信至少要做兩件事情第一你的一些資料都在那個地方對不對\n233103\t249702\t這Data有沒有外流 這個應該查得你一直在搖頭你沒有去查怎麼知道他有沒有外流對不對 要不然第二個民眾一定有個疑問嘛那四方 四方跟人家業務 業務合作他明明沒這個業務啊他跟台南市政府也沒有這個業務啊他為什麼可以做這個事情資料從哪邊來\n253874\t282045\t只有三家電信有這個資料嘛 對不對那現在關機密順便掀起中華電信啊現在不是你搖頭耶這是一個客觀的事實啊你最好去查啊是不是這樣NCC要去查 檢調人要查那個有關於四方的假使電信服務的部分我們會去查還對OK 會進去嘛來來 局長我再問你一個最近還有一個也是蠻嚴重的問題引起蠻大的恐慌的這陣動的立法委員沈博洋\n283322\t310857\t他直接挑戰你們,他是接受針訪的時候,他直接說他說啊國安局啊很難對國內人士做針訪他說台灣應該要一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險的高風險群要進行控管這兩個人裡面,有兩個叫你管的第一,他說你國安局那麼努力可是\n312386\t316615\t你對國內的某些可能會被滲透或者第五縱隊你是沒辦法做申訪嗎?\n318472\t344097\t這部分剛剛早上黃蓮委員也有在關切我們做過相關的說明也就是說這幾年我們在國安團隊進行國安案件的偵辦非常的積極那去年到現在已經有偵辦了81個案件那檢方起訴有39個案件那這已經是歷來最大的數字你贊不贊成說台灣應該要有一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險群進行控管你有贊成這個意見嗎\n344957\t357411\t我想委員對於一些怎麼樣來強化國安的一些討論或建議我們都尊重但是我要特別強調尊重現在引起那麼多人的恐慌你尊重喔國安局長對於這樣的一個要監控監控幾十萬人你是尊重的嗎\n360635\t360975\t沈博洋講的高風險情\n377329\t379610\t中共可能威脅在中國做生意．或者有蹊蹺在中國的人．包括陸配,38萬\n410383\t430447\t我們在偵辦國安案件或共諜案一定要有法律的依據那這也是為什麼我們國安團隊在偵辦相關的案件要依照國安法跟反滲透法的法律要件來蒐證有的話才會移送檢調單位來偵辦那我們蒐證結果到底檢調單位特別是院方最後怎麼裁法這我們尊重司法的判決\n431267\t457129\t市長裡面有一個很重要的點被點名是高風險的包括立法委員、傳理長、陸配就在台灣有這麼多人你怎麼讓這些人覺得他不是被欺負的有可能會被監控怎麼讓他們安心我剛剛跟委員說明就在這一部分我們的所有的偵辦國安案件都一定要有法律當基礎這就是我們民主法治國家最基本的標準黑熊協議有很多民間的這個機構他做一些民防的這個沒有什麼不同\n458120\t481951\t可是他創辦人現任的立法委員也是執政黨不溫區男性第一名包括另外一個爭議性人物我們剛才在講的王逸川民進黨中央政策會執行長他們現在代表是什麼是執政黨的一個意念的一個表達嗎他不約而同裡面都提到什麼要監控人民的意圖跟儀式的作為這是不是一種民主倒退是不是一種白色恐怖\n482964\t510341\t我們台灣以前經歷了白色恐怖之後現在要來一個綠色的恐怖嗎?歷史的教訓還不過嗎?國安局有責任讓全民是可以安心的國安局有相關的監控措施也不是不可以可是一定要得到可靠的情報對不對?有可靠的就像你說的有可靠的情報之後你才能夠針對某個個人或團體做監聽嘛可是現在不是啊\n511461\t528859\t在民進黨裡面不管是王逸川講的或者是邢博安講的他是什麼他先把某個族群把他化成說是可能的敵人這個在民主國家裡面不是很危險荒謬的事嗎在自己的國家裡面去製造敵人把自己劃分出去錄片就有38萬人\n531363\t557356\t局長,38萬的陸配現在是你們的監控對象嗎?沒有,我剛剛一直在強調的是,針對相關國安案件的偵辦,假如要涉及到有通訊監察的話,一定要走非常嚴謹的法律跟行政程序。國安局並不是發動單位,必須要由司法警察機關,包括警政署、縣警調有這樣的需求送到國安局,國安局進行審核,再由高等法院法官來進行。\n558777\t571529\t透過今天這個執行讓所謂沈博洋講的高風險型的這些人能夠安心他不是會變心痛這是依照法律來這是依照法律來這是一個第二個我們最後要強調的我們只要是愛台灣認同台灣的人都是台灣啦\n575168\t587661\t只要愛台灣、認同台灣人、恭喜台灣人不要在自己的國內再找敵人了不要再撕裂整個社會操作對立了國安局的任務非常重要好不好是,國安案件正辦,依法行政愛我們的台灣人,謝謝\n","txt":"請蔡局長還有NCC的翁副指委、中華電信的林副總經理\n局長你現在這個國安應該很擔心你看一方面是陸船直接開進了這個淡水了另外一方面有執政黨的中央政策會的執行長可能像老大哥一樣監控了我們的臺灣的民眾包括小草跟青鳥另外還有執政黨的立法委員說要對我們臺灣幾十萬的\n幾十萬的高風險勤的人,包括陸配,要做監控你就是這麼煩惱,我先問你第一個問題古歷雄啊,我們講的北中先講啊,他說要行使這個自衛權的條件是什麼?共軍,只要是共軍侵入我們12海裡的領空或者是領海,結果造成這個事情快艇都開進來了,都直接衝到這個淡水上面去啦,淡水河啦\n我們有行使我們的智慧權嗎?我們有完全的掌握有逮捕人嗎?對,而這部分的處理剛剛還是...裡面是不是漏洞百出?搞不清楚為止三個版本啊,還多不起來啊我們國安是不是出了一個很大的漏洞?\n對,海巡這部分有做一些查處的動作那也有釐清整個案情過程當中還有哪些疑點要進一步的來進行調查不只是責任要追究,這個漏洞要趕快補起來,趕快剝剖吧第二個我要談的是昨天王逸川已經被別檢已經約談了他講的是什麼?有啊,他說他照資料去比對啊那就有資料啊剛才國產問一個問題\n市方電信是中華電信的關係企業,對不對?他剛拿出來的,鐵錚錚的,台南市政府他承攬了台南市政府的業務,我再給大家看一張他還承攬了蔡英文總統的數據分析,看這個大家看一下為一百五十年的總統大選開始蔡英文總統選總統的時候,輿情監測\n還有移情分析費用到了109年還有三筆做什麼數據的費用數據的分析分析分析這個數據的費用我要問局長跟中華電信四方是中華電信的關係企業一方面我們的立委從習巧芯到黃國昌指正立例\n王毅川的資料是他給的我現在更進一步給大家看蔡英文總統跟他也有業務上的交往現在是不是國安單位跟NCC要去查清楚這部分可能還是要確認一下相關的所謂的業務有沒有涉及到他的資料是有沒有去識別化還是非去識別化這是第一個法律要件要釐清的但是因為\n但是因為這個案子檢調已經在查二來是國安局我們並沒有司法調查權那對於這個相關的資訊可能細節上可能中華電信這邊可以比較…NCC跟中華電信至少要做兩件事情第一你的一些資料都在那個地方對不對\n這Data有沒有外流 這個應該查得你一直在搖頭你沒有去查怎麼知道他有沒有外流對不對 要不然第二個民眾一定有個疑問嘛那四方 四方跟人家業務 業務合作他明明沒這個業務啊他跟台南市政府也沒有這個業務啊他為什麼可以做這個事情資料從哪邊來\n只有三家電信有這個資料嘛 對不對那現在關機密順便掀起中華電信啊現在不是你搖頭耶這是一個客觀的事實啊你最好去查啊是不是這樣NCC要去查 檢調人要查那個有關於四方的假使電信服務的部分我們會去查還對OK 會進去嘛來來 局長我再問你一個最近還有一個也是蠻嚴重的問題引起蠻大的恐慌的這陣動的立法委員沈博洋\n他直接挑戰你們,他是接受針訪的時候,他直接說他說啊國安局啊很難對國內人士做針訪他說台灣應該要一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險的高風險群要進行控管這兩個人裡面,有兩個叫你管的第一,他說你國安局那麼努力可是\n你對國內的某些可能會被滲透或者第五縱隊你是沒辦法做申訪嗎?\n這部分剛剛早上黃蓮委員也有在關切我們做過相關的說明也就是說這幾年我們在國安團隊進行國安案件的偵辦非常的積極那去年到現在已經有偵辦了81個案件那檢方起訴有39個案件那這已經是歷來最大的數字你贊不贊成說台灣應該要有一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險群進行控管你有贊成這個意見嗎\n我想委員對於一些怎麼樣來強化國安的一些討論或建議我們都尊重但是我要特別強調尊重現在引起那麼多人的恐慌你尊重喔國安局長對於這樣的一個要監控監控幾十萬人你是尊重的嗎\n沈博洋講的高風險情\n中共可能威脅在中國做生意．或者有蹊蹺在中國的人．包括陸配,38萬\n我們在偵辦國安案件或共諜案一定要有法律的依據那這也是為什麼我們國安團隊在偵辦相關的案件要依照國安法跟反滲透法的法律要件來蒐證有的話才會移送檢調單位來偵辦那我們蒐證結果到底檢調單位特別是院方最後怎麼裁法這我們尊重司法的判決\n市長裡面有一個很重要的點被點名是高風險的包括立法委員、傳理長、陸配就在台灣有這麼多人你怎麼讓這些人覺得他不是被欺負的有可能會被監控怎麼讓他們安心我剛剛跟委員說明就在這一部分我們的所有的偵辦國安案件都一定要有法律當基礎這就是我們民主法治國家最基本的標準黑熊協議有很多民間的這個機構他做一些民防的這個沒有什麼不同\n可是他創辦人現任的立法委員也是執政黨不溫區男性第一名包括另外一個爭議性人物我們剛才在講的王逸川民進黨中央政策會執行長他們現在代表是什麼是執政黨的一個意念的一個表達嗎他不約而同裡面都提到什麼要監控人民的意圖跟儀式的作為這是不是一種民主倒退是不是一種白色恐怖\n我們台灣以前經歷了白色恐怖之後現在要來一個綠色的恐怖嗎?歷史的教訓還不過嗎?國安局有責任讓全民是可以安心的國安局有相關的監控措施也不是不可以可是一定要得到可靠的情報對不對?有可靠的就像你說的有可靠的情報之後你才能夠針對某個個人或團體做監聽嘛可是現在不是啊\n在民進黨裡面不管是王逸川講的或者是邢博安講的他是什麼他先把某個族群把他化成說是可能的敵人這個在民主國家裡面不是很危險荒謬的事嗎在自己的國家裡面去製造敵人把自己劃分出去錄片就有38萬人\n局長,38萬的陸配現在是你們的監控對象嗎?沒有,我剛剛一直在強調的是,針對相關國安案件的偵辦,假如要涉及到有通訊監察的話,一定要走非常嚴謹的法律跟行政程序。國安局並不是發動單位,必須要由司法警察機關,包括警政署、縣警調有這樣的需求送到國安局,國安局進行審核,再由高等法院法官來進行。\n透過今天這個執行讓所謂沈博洋講的高風險型的這些人能夠安心他不是會變心痛這是依照法律來這是依照法律來這是一個第二個我們最後要強調的我們只要是愛台灣認同台灣的人都是台灣啦\n只要愛台灣、認同台灣人、恭喜台灣人不要在自己的國內再找敵人了不要再撕裂整個社會操作對立了國安局的任務非常重要好不好是,國安案件正辦,依法行政愛我們的台灣人,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.747 --> 00:17.769\n請蔡局長還有NCC的翁副指委、中華電信的林副總經理\n\n00:39.785 --> 01:01.035\n局長你現在這個國安應該很擔心你看一方面是陸船直接開進了這個淡水了另外一方面有執政黨的中央政策會的執行長可能像老大哥一樣監控了我們的臺灣的民眾包括小草跟青鳥另外還有執政黨的立法委員說要對我們臺灣幾十萬的\n\n01:04.313 --> 01:29.356\n幾十萬的高風險勤的人,包括陸配,要做監控你就是這麼煩惱,我先問你第一個問題古歷雄啊,我們講的北中先講啊,他說要行使這個自衛權的條件是什麼?共軍,只要是共軍侵入我們12海裡的領空或者是領海,結果造成這個事情快艇都開進來了,都直接衝到這個淡水上面去啦,淡水河啦\n\n01:31.052 --> 01:44.259\n我們有行使我們的智慧權嗎?我們有完全的掌握有逮捕人嗎?對,而這部分的處理剛剛還是...裡面是不是漏洞百出?搞不清楚為止三個版本啊,還多不起來啊我們國安是不是出了一個很大的漏洞?\n\n01:44.958 --> 02:08.509\n對,海巡這部分有做一些查處的動作那也有釐清整個案情過程當中還有哪些疑點要進一步的來進行調查不只是責任要追究,這個漏洞要趕快補起來,趕快剝剖吧第二個我要談的是昨天王逸川已經被別檢已經約談了他講的是什麼?有啊,他說他照資料去比對啊那就有資料啊剛才國產問一個問題\n\n02:11.317 --> 02:33.276\n市方電信是中華電信的關係企業,對不對?他剛拿出來的,鐵錚錚的,台南市政府他承攬了台南市政府的業務,我再給大家看一張他還承攬了蔡英文總統的數據分析,看這個大家看一下為一百五十年的總統大選開始蔡英文總統選總統的時候,輿情監測\n\n02:40.487 --> 03:06.392\n還有移情分析費用到了109年還有三筆做什麼數據的費用數據的分析分析分析這個數據的費用我要問局長跟中華電信四方是中華電信的關係企業一方面我們的立委從習巧芯到黃國昌指正立例\n\n03:08.783 --> 03:31.756\n王毅川的資料是他給的我現在更進一步給大家看蔡英文總統跟他也有業務上的交往現在是不是國安單位跟NCC要去查清楚這部分可能還是要確認一下相關的所謂的業務有沒有涉及到他的資料是有沒有去識別化還是非去識別化這是第一個法律要件要釐清的但是因為\n\n03:34.537 --> 03:51.323\n但是因為這個案子檢調已經在查二來是國安局我們並沒有司法調查權那對於這個相關的資訊可能細節上可能中華電信這邊可以比較…NCC跟中華電信至少要做兩件事情第一你的一些資料都在那個地方對不對\n\n03:53.103 --> 04:09.702\n這Data有沒有外流這個應該查得你一直在搖頭你沒有去查怎麼知道他有沒有外流對不對要不然第二個民眾一定有個疑問嘛那四方四方跟人家業務業務合作他明明沒這個業務啊他跟台南市政府也沒有這個業務啊他為什麼可以做這個事情資料從哪邊來\n\n04:13.874 --> 04:42.045\n只有三家電信有這個資料嘛對不對那現在關機密順便掀起中華電信啊現在不是你搖頭耶這是一個客觀的事實啊你最好去查啊是不是這樣NCC要去查檢調人要查那個有關於四方的假使電信服務的部分我們會去查還對OK會進去嘛來來局長我再問你一個最近還有一個也是蠻嚴重的問題引起蠻大的恐慌的這陣動的立法委員沈博洋\n\n04:43.322 --> 05:10.857\n他直接挑戰你們,他是接受針訪的時候,他直接說他說啊國安局啊很難對國內人士做針訪他說台灣應該要一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險的高風險群要進行控管這兩個人裡面,有兩個叫你管的第一,他說你國安局那麼努力可是\n\n05:12.386 --> 05:16.615\n你對國內的某些可能會被滲透或者第五縱隊你是沒辦法做申訪嗎?\n\n05:18.472 --> 05:44.097\n這部分剛剛早上黃蓮委員也有在關切我們做過相關的說明也就是說這幾年我們在國安團隊進行國安案件的偵辦非常的積極那去年到現在已經有偵辦了81個案件那檢方起訴有39個案件那這已經是歷來最大的數字你贊不贊成說台灣應該要有一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險群進行控管你有贊成這個意見嗎\n\n05:44.957 --> 05:57.411\n我想委員對於一些怎麼樣來強化國安的一些討論或建議我們都尊重但是我要特別強調尊重現在引起那麼多人的恐慌你尊重喔國安局長對於這樣的一個要監控監控幾十萬人你是尊重的嗎\n\n06:00.635 --> 06:00.975\n沈博洋講的高風險情\n\n06:17.329 --> 06:19.610\n中共可能威脅在中國做生意．或者有蹊蹺在中國的人．包括陸配,38萬\n\n06:50.383 --> 07:10.447\n我們在偵辦國安案件或共諜案一定要有法律的依據那這也是為什麼我們國安團隊在偵辦相關的案件要依照國安法跟反滲透法的法律要件來蒐證有的話才會移送檢調單位來偵辦那我們蒐證結果到底檢調單位特別是院方最後怎麼裁法這我們尊重司法的判決\n\n07:11.267 --> 07:37.129\n市長裡面有一個很重要的點被點名是高風險的包括立法委員、傳理長、陸配就在台灣有這麼多人你怎麼讓這些人覺得他不是被欺負的有可能會被監控怎麼讓他們安心我剛剛跟委員說明就在這一部分我們的所有的偵辦國安案件都一定要有法律當基礎這就是我們民主法治國家最基本的標準黑熊協議有很多民間的這個機構他做一些民防的這個沒有什麼不同\n\n07:38.120 --> 08:01.951\n可是他創辦人現任的立法委員也是執政黨不溫區男性第一名包括另外一個爭議性人物我們剛才在講的王逸川民進黨中央政策會執行長他們現在代表是什麼是執政黨的一個意念的一個表達嗎他不約而同裡面都提到什麼要監控人民的意圖跟儀式的作為這是不是一種民主倒退是不是一種白色恐怖\n\n08:02.964 --> 08:30.341\n我們台灣以前經歷了白色恐怖之後現在要來一個綠色的恐怖嗎?歷史的教訓還不過嗎?國安局有責任讓全民是可以安心的國安局有相關的監控措施也不是不可以可是一定要得到可靠的情報對不對?有可靠的就像你說的有可靠的情報之後你才能夠針對某個個人或團體做監聽嘛可是現在不是啊\n\n08:31.461 --> 08:48.859\n在民進黨裡面不管是王逸川講的或者是邢博安講的他是什麼他先把某個族群把他化成說是可能的敵人這個在民主國家裡面不是很危險荒謬的事嗎在自己的國家裡面去製造敵人把自己劃分出去錄片就有38萬人\n\n08:51.363 --> 09:17.356\n局長,38萬的陸配現在是你們的監控對象嗎?沒有,我剛剛一直在強調的是,針對相關國安案件的偵辦,假如要涉及到有通訊監察的話,一定要走非常嚴謹的法律跟行政程序。國安局並不是發動單位,必須要由司法警察機關,包括警政署、縣警調有這樣的需求送到國安局,國安局進行審核,再由高等法院法官來進行。\n\n09:18.777 --> 09:31.529\n透過今天這個執行讓所謂沈博洋講的高風險型的這些人能夠安心他不是會變心痛這是依照法律來這是依照法律來這是一個第二個我們最後要強調的我們只要是愛台灣認同台灣的人都是台灣啦\n\n09:35.168 --> 09:47.661\n只要愛台灣、認同台灣人、恭喜台灣人不要在自己的國內再找敵人了不要再撕裂整個社會操作對立了國安局的任務非常重要好不好是,國安案件正辦,依法行政愛我們的台灣人,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.747,"end":17.769,"text":"請蔡局長還有NCC的翁副指委、中華電信的林副總經理"},{"start":39.785,"end":61.035,"text":"局長你現在這個國安應該很擔心你看一方面是陸船直接開進了這個淡水了另外一方面有執政黨的中央政策會的執行長可能像老大哥一樣監控了我們的臺灣的民眾包括小草跟青鳥另外還有執政黨的立法委員說要對我們臺灣幾十萬的"},{"start":64.313,"end":89.356,"text":"幾十萬的高風險勤的人,包括陸配,要做監控你就是這麼煩惱,我先問你第一個問題古歷雄啊,我們講的北中先講啊,他說要行使這個自衛權的條件是什麼?共軍,只要是共軍侵入我們12海裡的領空或者是領海,結果造成這個事情快艇都開進來了,都直接衝到這個淡水上面去啦,淡水河啦"},{"start":91.052,"end":104.259,"text":"我們有行使我們的智慧權嗎?我們有完全的掌握有逮捕人嗎?對,而這部分的處理剛剛還是...裡面是不是漏洞百出?搞不清楚為止三個版本啊,還多不起來啊我們國安是不是出了一個很大的漏洞?"},{"start":104.958,"end":128.509,"text":"對,海巡這部分有做一些查處的動作那也有釐清整個案情過程當中還有哪些疑點要進一步的來進行調查不只是責任要追究,這個漏洞要趕快補起來,趕快剝剖吧第二個我要談的是昨天王逸川已經被別檢已經約談了他講的是什麼?有啊,他說他照資料去比對啊那就有資料啊剛才國產問一個問題"},{"start":131.317,"end":153.276,"text":"市方電信是中華電信的關係企業,對不對?他剛拿出來的,鐵錚錚的,台南市政府他承攬了台南市政府的業務,我再給大家看一張他還承攬了蔡英文總統的數據分析,看這個大家看一下為一百五十年的總統大選開始蔡英文總統選總統的時候,輿情監測"},{"start":160.487,"end":186.392,"text":"還有移情分析費用到了109年還有三筆做什麼數據的費用數據的分析分析分析這個數據的費用我要問局長跟中華電信四方是中華電信的關係企業一方面我們的立委從習巧芯到黃國昌指正立例"},{"start":188.783,"end":211.756,"text":"王毅川的資料是他給的我現在更進一步給大家看蔡英文總統跟他也有業務上的交往現在是不是國安單位跟NCC要去查清楚這部分可能還是要確認一下相關的所謂的業務有沒有涉及到他的資料是有沒有去識別化還是非去識別化這是第一個法律要件要釐清的但是因為"},{"start":214.537,"end":231.323,"text":"但是因為這個案子檢調已經在查二來是國安局我們並沒有司法調查權那對於這個相關的資訊可能細節上可能中華電信這邊可以比較…NCC跟中華電信至少要做兩件事情第一你的一些資料都在那個地方對不對"},{"start":233.103,"end":249.702,"text":"這Data有沒有外流 這個應該查得你一直在搖頭你沒有去查怎麼知道他有沒有外流對不對 要不然第二個民眾一定有個疑問嘛那四方 四方跟人家業務 業務合作他明明沒這個業務啊他跟台南市政府也沒有這個業務啊他為什麼可以做這個事情資料從哪邊來"},{"start":253.874,"end":282.045,"text":"只有三家電信有這個資料嘛 對不對那現在關機密順便掀起中華電信啊現在不是你搖頭耶這是一個客觀的事實啊你最好去查啊是不是這樣NCC要去查 檢調人要查那個有關於四方的假使電信服務的部分我們會去查還對OK 會進去嘛來來 局長我再問你一個最近還有一個也是蠻嚴重的問題引起蠻大的恐慌的這陣動的立法委員沈博洋"},{"start":283.322,"end":310.857,"text":"他直接挑戰你們,他是接受針訪的時候,他直接說他說啊國安局啊很難對國內人士做針訪他說台灣應該要一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險的高風險群要進行控管這兩個人裡面,有兩個叫你管的第一,他說你國安局那麼努力可是"},{"start":312.386,"end":316.615,"text":"你對國內的某些可能會被滲透或者第五縱隊你是沒辦法做申訪嗎?"},{"start":318.472,"end":344.097,"text":"這部分剛剛早上黃蓮委員也有在關切我們做過相關的說明也就是說這幾年我們在國安團隊進行國安案件的偵辦非常的積極那去年到現在已經有偵辦了81個案件那檢方起訴有39個案件那這已經是歷來最大的數字你贊不贊成說台灣應該要有一個應對中國的作戰中心對國內的高風險群進行控管你有贊成這個意見嗎"},{"start":344.957,"end":357.411,"text":"我想委員對於一些怎麼樣來強化國安的一些討論或建議我們都尊重但是我要特別強調尊重現在引起那麼多人的恐慌你尊重喔國安局長對於這樣的一個要監控監控幾十萬人你是尊重的嗎"},{"start":360.635,"end":360.975,"text":"沈博洋講的高風險情"},{"start":377.329,"end":379.61,"text":"中共可能威脅在中國做生意．或者有蹊蹺在中國的人．包括陸配,38萬"},{"start":410.383,"end":430.447,"text":"我們在偵辦國安案件或共諜案一定要有法律的依據那這也是為什麼我們國安團隊在偵辦相關的案件要依照國安法跟反滲透法的法律要件來蒐證有的話才會移送檢調單位來偵辦那我們蒐證結果到底檢調單位特別是院方最後怎麼裁法這我們尊重司法的判決"},{"start":431.267,"end":457.129,"text":"市長裡面有一個很重要的點被點名是高風險的包括立法委員、傳理長、陸配就在台灣有這麼多人你怎麼讓這些人覺得他不是被欺負的有可能會被監控怎麼讓他們安心我剛剛跟委員說明就在這一部分我們的所有的偵辦國安案件都一定要有法律當基礎這就是我們民主法治國家最基本的標準黑熊協議有很多民間的這個機構他做一些民防的這個沒有什麼不同"},{"start":458.12,"end":481.951,"text":"可是他創辦人現任的立法委員也是執政黨不溫區男性第一名包括另外一個爭議性人物我們剛才在講的王逸川民進黨中央政策會執行長他們現在代表是什麼是執政黨的一個意念的一個表達嗎他不約而同裡面都提到什麼要監控人民的意圖跟儀式的作為這是不是一種民主倒退是不是一種白色恐怖"},{"start":482.964,"end":510.341,"text":"我們台灣以前經歷了白色恐怖之後現在要來一個綠色的恐怖嗎?歷史的教訓還不過嗎?國安局有責任讓全民是可以安心的國安局有相關的監控措施也不是不可以可是一定要得到可靠的情報對不對?有可靠的就像你說的有可靠的情報之後你才能夠針對某個個人或團體做監聽嘛可是現在不是啊"},{"start":511.461,"end":528.859,"text":"在民進黨裡面不管是王逸川講的或者是邢博安講的他是什麼他先把某個族群把他化成說是可能的敵人這個在民主國家裡面不是很危險荒謬的事嗎在自己的國家裡面去製造敵人把自己劃分出去錄片就有38萬人"},{"start":531.363,"end":557.356,"text":"局長,38萬的陸配現在是你們的監控對象嗎?沒有,我剛剛一直在強調的是,針對相關國安案件的偵辦,假如要涉及到有通訊監察的話,一定要走非常嚴謹的法律跟行政程序。國安局並不是發動單位,必須要由司法警察機關,包括警政署、縣警調有這樣的需求送到國安局,國安局進行審核,再由高等法院法官來進行。"},{"start":558.777,"end":571.529,"text":"透過今天這個執行讓所謂沈博洋講的高風險型的這些人能夠安心他不是會變心痛這是依照法律來這是依照法律來這是一個第二個我們最後要強調的我們只要是愛台灣認同台灣的人都是台灣啦"},{"start":575.168,"end":587.661,"text":"只要愛台灣、認同台灣人、恭喜台灣人不要在自己的國內再找敵人了不要再撕裂整個社會操作對立了國安局的任務非常重要好不好是,國安案件正辦,依法行政愛我們的台灣人,謝謝"}]}}}}