{"id":153895,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153895","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd8196c434af001be845825a148732a468ab6dc42bf70e43d78a935d124a0c032b89f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:28:49 - 11:40:16","影片長度":"00:11:27","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-12","start_time":"2024-06-12T11:28:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-12T11:40:16+08:00","duration":687,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時28分）麻煩請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：我們請鄭部長。"],["葉委員元之：部長你好，我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品，我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上的狀況，例如說毒品，我們有講到學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案，部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面的實施大概的狀況是怎樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：我知道它是針對毒品上的一個實施，但是……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，部長，我會跟你反映，因為你剛來啦！而且你是出身高教，可能對於國中、高中、國小不是這麼瞭解，我跟你報告，春暉專案在國中裡面大概能夠做的，就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿，就這樣，他們能做的就這樣，那這就會衍生出一個問題，比如說第一個，它必須要有一個個案，它才能夠去針對嘛！第二個是個案還要配合，如果今天個案他說我有我的人權，你為什麼隨便給我驗尿，那這個春暉專案在推動上是窒礙難行的。所以第一個我希望部長，因為才剛到嘛！你去瞭解一下，就是現在國中、高中到底在降低毒品的這個狀況遇到什麼窒礙難行的地方，一定要去瞭解，好不好？部長一定要去瞭解，否則的話，我們看那個數據，為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說你們做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題，但是毒品的問題越來越嚴重，到底問題在哪裡，部長可能要特別去瞭解。","第二個我們講到校園霸凌，部長你知不知道，如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了，那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制，您知道嗎？他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制？"],["鄭部長英耀：直接向學校來舉發……"],["葉委員元之：接洽學校對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：那我告訴你，接洽學校會遇到兩個狀況，第一個狀況，學校先來判定它是不是霸凌，如果學校認為你這是一次性的，這就是單純的學生欺負學生，那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌，他會認為是一次性學生的欺負。"],["鄭部長英耀：這種一次性的如果造成傷害，我們講說就是一個校園的暴力行為，這還是會啟動，還是會用這個機制來啟動。"],["葉委員元之：不一定，可能他會找生教組或輔導老師的方式來處理，因為如果要啟動霸凌的話，會啟動另外一個機制，這個機制叫做校事會議，如果開校事會議的話，也會產生兩個問題，我現在跟部長報告，第一個問題什麼呢？要花非常久的時間，為什麼？因為它必須要請外部專家，然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理，所以它會花大概一、兩個月。我想問部長，一個家長如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了，他的心情是怎麼樣？他一天都不能等啦！部長，一天都不能等！"],["鄭部長英耀：我完全同意。"],["葉委員元之：他要在這個過程當中去判斷他要不要把他的小朋友轉班，甚至轉學，對不對？因為在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前，他沒有辦法做這個決定，他會認為說如果結果沒出來，我的小朋友直接轉走，感覺好像是我的小朋友的問題，對不對？到時候他轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講，隨便學生怎麼講，可是他如果要留下來等待那個校事會議，兩個月，部長剛剛你也講了嘛！一天他都很難受，但是他要等兩個月，部長，你覺得這個流程有沒有問題？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個……首先當然就是減少霸凌的發生，這個我們從課程各方面我們會努力……"],["葉委員元之：這個我沒有討論到，我現在就是討論已經發生的。"],["鄭部長英耀：確實怎麼樣讓流程縮短，如果這一些霸凌的行為是明確的，我們怎麼樣能夠協助學校快速的處理這一個行為，我相信那是我們共同……"],["葉委員元之：這個是一個同理心的問題，為人父、為人母，知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌，他可能一天都不能等，可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映，在這過程當中，很多家長處理霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊！就是那種心裡的壓力，那種情緒的壓抑，部長，沒有遇到的人是很難瞭解的，所以我們作為一個教育單位，我們怎麼幫助家長去克服這個過程，不是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：部長你認同嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我同意。"],["葉委員元之：那是不是可以去瞭解一下校事會議的時間、處理的狀況，然後去做一個更有效率的解決方式？因為兩個月我個人認為實在太久。然後還有衍生另外一個問題，就是現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理霸凌或校事會議，所以學校變成要自己編經費，要自己用既有的老師來處理，學校也會覺得負擔有點重，我不知道教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實這一個校事會議上個月才剛通過、才剛實施，我們現在也跟地方政府合作，就是說除了地方政府給予必要的一些經費協助，我們在師對生每一案是補助1萬5,000塊，生對生我們每一案是補助1萬塊。"],["葉委員元之：儘量給學校協助好不好？因為學校現在不管是師資各方面都很吃緊。還有一個小技術性問題要提醒一下教育部，這是高中生跟我反映的。他說每半年大概學校會做一次霸凌調查，就怕學生平常不敢講，透過問卷的方式讓他們自己講出來有沒有霸凌的情況，但有時候收問卷的時候，都是用傳的，或者是收問卷的時候，很容易被其他同學看到他填這個問卷，那麼並沒有達到保護學生的作用，這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下，不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候，心生恐懼，好不好？","再來，我之前曾經很關心，就是校園安全，因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大的不一樣，現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行，所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中，吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手，所以現在國中幫派的情況越來越嚴重。過去教育部常常就推給老師，如果學生有問題，就是老師去處理、生教組長去處理。但是部長，我想問你，請問一下，一個老師在學校怎麼去處理幫派的問題？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這確實對老師已經逾越了他專業上的……"],["葉委員元之：很難處理啦！"],["鄭部長英耀：所以跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：我講一個真實狀況給部長聽，你知道現在很多國中的生教組長，就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長，都是代理老師，你知道這個狀況嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我進來以後，我聽到了。"],["葉委員元之：你知道為什麼都是代理老師？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的。"],["葉委員元之：是，所以我們是不是要解決這個問題？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：兩個建議。第一個，如果教育部在沒有辦法解決這個問題之前，能不能提高代理老師，特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇，可不可以？他做了正式老師很多不願意做的事嘛！他要面對、解決很多類似飛行學生的問題，但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇，部長，這個合理嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上是不合理的，我事實上也跟委員報告，部裡對代理老師的待遇，因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的身分，所以在薪水待遇上，他是比照專任老師。"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛講的是生教組長。"],["鄭部長英耀：生教組長有主管的一個津貼。"],["葉委員元之：你再去瞭解一下，不然生教組長一直用代理的也不是辦法，對不對？你要去瞭解問題。我剛剛講，因為他要面對很多幫派的學生，他本來就比較危險。","再來，之前我曾經有提過，國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員，可不可以？就是由訓練有素的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題，可不可以？之前有提案，但是教育部也是隨便回我，因為現在換了一個部長，我們希望部長重新思考，因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況。你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生，其實是給老師很大的壓力，所以應該要有專責訓練有素的人員去面對。希望下一次，等部長熟悉之後，我再來問部長，部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案，因為這是為了學生好，為了要保護大多數。"],["鄭部長英耀：對於怎麼樣去提供一個友善跟安全的校園環境，不僅是學生的安全學習……"],["葉委員元之：沒錯。"],["鄭部長英耀：老師的安心教學，我想那是我們努力的目標。"],["葉委員元之：對，我剛剛提出方案是校安人員，部長如果有更好的方案，我們來討論，但如果沒有，你考慮一下，就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：這個下次我再來問部長。","還有，現在老師講在學校記校規跟笑話一樣，校規變笑話，像我們以前小時候大家怕被記校規，為什麼？因為記三個大過退學，現在在學校記了十個大過卻沒事，反而還增加老師的負擔，老師為了記學生大過，還要寫報告。請問一下部長，校規記了十個大過，對學生都沒有任何影響，你不會覺得很奇怪嗎？要怎麼處理？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想有關學生的違規，某種程度他已經人地不宜，我們看怎麼樣去協助……"],["葉委員元之：我這邊一個建議，我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織，今天一個學生一直犯校規，也許他有校園暴力行為，記了十個大過，要嘛他就待在原來學校，要嘛轉到另外一個學校，成為另外一個學校的問題，那麼有解決任何的問題嗎？沒有！今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織，讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學，然後再做處置，你不能把校規當作是完全沒有任何嚇阻力啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：我同意委員所說的，對這些已經進入需要關懷的……"],["葉委員元之：我覺得我們的教育，當然學生人權很重要，這些少數學生的人權很重要，可是我們更應該思考的是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生……"],["鄭部長英耀：完全同意，完全同意委員的看法。"],["葉委員元之：讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習，這也是教育部應該要注重的點吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：是的。"],["葉委員元之：這也就是今天為什麼我們討論霸凌跟毒品，好不好？部長，下一次我再來跟你討論，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝部長、謝謝葉元之委員。","接下來我們請吳春城委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-16","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","葉元之","吳春城","張雅琳","黃建賓","林德福","林倩綺","陳俊宇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","范雲","黃秀芳","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、法務部、內政部警政署列席就「如何有效防制毒品入侵校園及減少霸凌\n案件」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136201_00004"}},"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\"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 552.392, \"end\": 552.752, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 552.752, \"end\": 553.013, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 553.013, \"end\": 553.113, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 553.113, \"end\": 553.333, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 553.333, \"end\": 553.433, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 553.433, \"end\": 553.654, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 553.654, \"end\": 553.934, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"肯\", \"start\": 553.934, \"end\": 554.134, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 554.134, \"end\": 554.295, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 554.295, \"end\": 554.455, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 554.455, \"end\": 554.615, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 554.615, \"end\": 555.296, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 555.296, \"end\": 555.656, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 555.656, \"end\": 555.937, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 555.937, \"end\": 556.057, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 556.057, \"end\": 556.257, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 556.257, \"end\": 556.458, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 556.458, \"end\": 556.478, \"score\": 0.988}]}, {\"start\": 556.718, \"end\": 561.74, \"text\": \"我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好 這個下次我再來問部長還有啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 556.718, \"end\": 556.738, \"score\": 0.066}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 556.738, \"end\": 556.778, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 556.778, \"end\": 556.798, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 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0.352}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 561.119, \"end\": 561.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 561.139, \"end\": 561.259, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 561.259, \"end\": 561.299, \"score\": 0.462}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 561.299, \"end\": 561.379, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 561.379, \"end\": 561.399, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 561.399, \"end\": 561.419, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 561.419, \"end\": 561.54, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 561.54, \"end\": 561.58, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 561.58, \"end\": 561.66, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 561.66, \"end\": 561.7, \"score\": 0.389}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 561.7, \"end\": 561.72, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 561.72, \"end\": 561.74, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 582.646, \"end\": 610.093, \"text\": \"現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 582.646, \"end\": 582.806, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 582.806, \"end\": 583.546, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 583.546, \"end\": 583.706, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 583.706, \"end\": 583.886, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 583.886, \"end\": 584.106, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"寄\", \"start\": 584.106, \"end\": 584.246, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 584.246, \"end\": 584.867, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 584.867, \"end\": 585.007, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 585.007, \"end\": 585.507, 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00:01:13,124\n那這就會衍生出一個問題啊比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的\n\n4\n00:01:14,406 --> 00:01:31,029\n所以我第一個我希望說部長因為來剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據\n\n5\n00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:52,402\n為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制\n\n6\n00:01:58,340 --> 00:02:18,349\n這一個等於接下學校對不對那我告訴你接下學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定他是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌\n\n7\n00:02:18,988 --> 00:02:44,675\n他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定不一定不一定對他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話\n\n8\n00:02:46,663 --> 00:03:08,608\n也會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?\n\n9\n00:03:11,854 --> 00:03:37,323\n他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊\n\n10\n00:03:38,666 --> 00:03:50,122\n可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題\n\n11\n00:03:51,976 --> 00:04:17,866\n確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力我沒有討論到現在就是討論說發生的確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同\n\n12\n00:04:18,466 --> 00:04:34,166\n這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊\n\n13\n00:04:35,091 --> 00:04:35,591\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n14\n00:05:01,243 --> 00:05:21,572\n更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理\n\n15\n00:05:23,393 --> 00:05:30,718\n那學校也會覺得負擔有點重啊我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能\n\n16\n00:05:53,553 --> 00:05:54,213\n教育部長鄭英耀\n\n17\n00:06:09,878 --> 00:06:09,898\n獲獎獎項目\n\n18\n00:06:26,992 --> 00:06:44,720\n保護學生的作用這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候心生恐懼好不好然後再來我之前曾經很關心就校園安全因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行\n\n19\n00:06:46,246 --> 00:07:10,328\n所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學這種問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校\n\n20\n00:07:11,038 --> 00:07:19,467\n我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長\n\n21\n00:07:26,354 --> 00:07:48,574\n都是代理老師你知道這個狀況嗎我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題是兩個建議第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以\n\n22\n00:07:49,670 --> 00:08:10,510\n他做了一個正式老師很多不願意做的事他要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也\n\n23\n00:08:11,551 --> 00:08:35,255\n因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水代理上他是比較專任的老師對,我剛剛講是生教組長生教組長他有的一個主管的一個你再去了解一下生教組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛對不對,你要去了解問題嘛那我剛剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛\n\n24\n00:08:37,397 --> 00:09:00,375\n然後再來之前我曾經有提過國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案但是教育部也是隨便回我了那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況\n\n25\n00:09:01,576 --> 00:09:16,478\n那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好\n\n26\n00:09:16,718 --> 00:09:21,740\n我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好這個下次我再來問部長還有啊\n\n27\n00:09:42,646 --> 00:10:10,093\n現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎\n\n28\n00:10:11,260 --> 00:10:39,546\n要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記著十個大過要嘛他就待在云南學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題\n\n29\n00:10:41,166 --> 00:10:55,738\n那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有那個阻力啊\n\n30\n00:10:57,271 --> 00:11:23,826\n我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點好不好這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下一次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4206\t7048\t麻煩請部長謝謝好我們請鄭部長部長你好我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上做的狀況比如說以毒品我們有講到就是學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案吧部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面實施大概狀況怎樣\n32366\t52597\t我知道他是在針對毒品上的一個事實但是沒關係部長這個我跟你反映因為你剛來啦而且你是出身高教可能對於國中高中國小不是那麼了解我跟你報告村會專案在國中裡面大概他能夠做的就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿就這樣他們能做就這樣\n56243\t73124\t那這就會衍生出一個問題啊比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的\n74406\t91029\t所以我第一個我希望說部長因為來剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據\n92330\t112402\t為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制\n118340\t138349\t這一個等於接下學校對不對那我告訴你接下學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定他是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌\n138988\t164675\t他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定不一定不一定對他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話\n166663\t188608\t也會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?\n191854\t217323\t他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊\n218666\t230122\t可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題\n231976\t257866\t確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力我沒有討論到現在就是討論說發生的確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同\n258466\t274166\t這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊\n275091\t275591\t獲得獲得獲得獲得\n301243\t321572\t更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理\n323393\t330718\t那學校也會覺得負擔有點重啊我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能\n353553\t354213\t教育部長鄭英耀\n369878\t369898\t獲獎獎項目\n386992\t404720\t保護學生的作用這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候心生恐懼好不好然後再來我之前曾經很關心就校園安全因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行\n406246\t430328\t所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學這種問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校\n431038\t439467\t我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長\n446354\t468574\t都是代理老師你知道這個狀況嗎我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是 那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題是兩個建議 第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以\n469670\t490510\t他做了一個正式老師很多不願意做的事他要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也\n491551\t515255\t因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水代理上他是比較專任的老師對,我剛剛講是生教組長生教組長他有的一個主管的一個你再去了解一下生教組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛對不對,你要去了解問題嘛那我剛剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛\n517397\t540375\t然後再來之前我曾經有提過國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案但是教育部也是隨便回我了那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況\n541576\t556478\t那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好\n556718\t561740\t我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好 這個下次我再來問部長還有啊\n582646\t610093\t現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎\n611260\t639546\t要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記著十個大過要嘛他就待在云南學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題\n641166\t655738\t那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有那個阻力啊\n657271\t683826\t我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點好不好這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下一次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員\n","txt":"麻煩請部長謝謝好我們請鄭部長部長你好我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上做的狀況比如說以毒品我們有講到就是學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案吧部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面實施大概狀況怎樣\n我知道他是在針對毒品上的一個事實但是沒關係部長這個我跟你反映因為你剛來啦而且你是出身高教可能對於國中高中國小不是那麼了解我跟你報告村會專案在國中裡面大概他能夠做的就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿就這樣他們能做就這樣\n那這就會衍生出一個問題啊比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的\n所以我第一個我希望說部長因為來剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據\n為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制\n這一個等於接下學校對不對那我告訴你接下學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定他是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌\n他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定不一定不一定對他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話\n也會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?\n他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊\n可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題\n確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力我沒有討論到現在就是討論說發生的確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同\n這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理\n那學校也會覺得負擔有點重啊我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能\n教育部長鄭英耀\n獲獎獎項目\n保護學生的作用這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候心生恐懼好不好然後再來我之前曾經很關心就校園安全因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行\n所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學這種問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校\n我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長\n都是代理老師你知道這個狀況嗎我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是 那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題是兩個建議 第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以\n他做了一個正式老師很多不願意做的事他要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也\n因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水代理上他是比較專任的老師對,我剛剛講是生教組長生教組長他有的一個主管的一個你再去了解一下生教組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛對不對,你要去了解問題嘛那我剛剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛\n然後再來之前我曾經有提過國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案但是教育部也是隨便回我了那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況\n那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好\n我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好 這個下次我再來問部長還有啊\n現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎\n要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記著十個大過要嘛他就待在云南學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題\n那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有那個阻力啊\n我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點好不好這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下一次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.206 --> 00:07.048\n麻煩請部長謝謝好我們請鄭部長部長你好我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上做的狀況比如說以毒品我們有講到就是學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案吧部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面實施大概狀況怎樣\n\n00:32.366 --> 00:52.597\n我知道他是在針對毒品上的一個事實但是沒關係部長這個我跟你反映因為你剛來啦而且你是出身高教可能對於國中高中國小不是那麼了解我跟你報告村會專案在國中裡面大概他能夠做的就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿就這樣他們能做就這樣\n\n00:56.243 --> 01:13.124\n那這就會衍生出一個問題啊比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的\n\n01:14.406 --> 01:31.029\n所以我第一個我希望說部長因為來剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據\n\n01:32.330 --> 01:52.402\n為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制\n\n01:58.340 --> 02:18.349\n這一個等於接下學校對不對那我告訴你接下學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定他是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌\n\n02:18.988 --> 02:44.675\n他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定不一定不一定對他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話\n\n02:46.663 --> 03:08.608\n也會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?\n\n03:11.854 --> 03:37.323\n他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊\n\n03:38.666 --> 03:50.122\n可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題\n\n03:51.976 --> 04:17.866\n確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力我沒有討論到現在就是討論說發生的確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同\n\n04:18.466 --> 04:34.166\n這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊\n\n04:35.091 --> 04:35.591\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n05:01.243 --> 05:21.572\n更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理\n\n05:23.393 --> 05:30.718\n那學校也會覺得負擔有點重啊我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能\n\n05:53.553 --> 05:54.213\n教育部長鄭英耀\n\n06:09.878 --> 06:09.898\n獲獎獎項目\n\n06:26.992 --> 06:44.720\n保護學生的作用這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候心生恐懼好不好然後再來我之前曾經很關心就校園安全因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行\n\n06:46.246 --> 07:10.328\n所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學這種問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校\n\n07:11.038 --> 07:19.467\n我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長\n\n07:26.354 --> 07:48.574\n都是代理老師你知道這個狀況嗎我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題是兩個建議第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以\n\n07:49.670 --> 08:10.510\n他做了一個正式老師很多不願意做的事他要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也\n\n08:11.551 --> 08:35.255\n因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水代理上他是比較專任的老師對,我剛剛講是生教組長生教組長他有的一個主管的一個你再去了解一下生教組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛對不對,你要去了解問題嘛那我剛剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛\n\n08:37.397 --> 09:00.375\n然後再來之前我曾經有提過國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案但是教育部也是隨便回我了那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況\n\n09:01.576 --> 09:16.478\n那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好\n\n09:16.718 --> 09:21.740\n我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好這個下次我再來問部長還有啊\n\n09:42.646 --> 10:10.093\n現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎\n\n10:11.260 --> 10:39.546\n要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記著十個大過要嘛他就待在云南學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題\n\n10:41.166 --> 10:55.738\n那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有那個阻力啊\n\n10:57.271 --> 11:23.826\n我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點好不好這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下一次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.206,"end":7.048,"text":"麻煩請部長謝謝好我們請鄭部長部長你好我們今天要討論校園霸凌跟毒品我想要反映一些在教學現場實際上做的狀況比如說以毒品我們有講到就是學校裡面會推一個叫春暉專案吧部長知不知道春暉專案在學校裡面實施大概狀況怎樣"},{"start":32.366,"end":52.597,"text":"我知道他是在針對毒品上的一個事實但是沒關係部長這個我跟你反映因為你剛來啦而且你是出身高教可能對於國中高中國小不是那麼了解我跟你報告村會專案在國中裡面大概他能夠做的就是針對他們懷疑可能有吸毒的同學去驗尿就這樣他們能做就這樣"},{"start":56.243,"end":73.124,"text":"那這就會衍生出一個問題啊比如說第一個他必須要有一個個案他才能夠去針對嘛第二個是個案還要配合啊如果今天個案他說我有我的人權你為什麼隨便給我驗尿那這個春暉專案在推動上是自愛難行的"},{"start":74.406,"end":91.029,"text":"所以我第一個我希望說部長因為來剛到嘛你去了解一下就是現在國中高中到底在推廣這個毒品的就是有關於降低毒品這個狀況遇到什麼自愛難行的地方一定要去了解好不好部長一定要去了解否則的話我們看那個數據"},{"start":92.33,"end":112.402,"text":"為什麼教育部每次告訴大家說我做了很多方案在解決毒品的問題但是那個毒品的問題越來越嚴重到底問題在哪裡這個部長可能要特別去了解第二個我們講到校園霸凌那部長你知道現在如果今天有學生認為他被霸凌了那他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制您知道嗎他可以採取什麼樣的申訴機制"},{"start":118.34,"end":138.349,"text":"這一個等於接下學校對不對那我告訴你接下學校會遇到兩個狀況第一個狀況學校先來判定他是不是霸凌因為如果學校認為說你這是一次性的然後這就是單純的學生欺負學生那這個部分學校不見得會把它認定為霸凌"},{"start":138.988,"end":164.675,"text":"他會認為說這是一次性的學生的欺負這一次性的如果造成傷害就是我們講說就是一個校園的一個暴力行為這還是會啟動還是會用這個機制來啟動不一定不一定不一定對他可能他會找生教組或老師輔導老師的方式來處理因為如果要啟動霸凌的話會啟動另外一個機制那這個機制叫做校士會議那如果校士會議的話"},{"start":166.663,"end":188.608,"text":"也會產生兩個問題我現在跟部長報告第一個問題是什麼呢?要花非常久的時間為什麼?因為他必須要請外部專家然後也要讓學校裡面很多師資來處理所以他會花大概一兩個月那部長我想問你一個家長他如果認為他的小朋友在學校被霸凌了他的心情是怎麼樣?"},{"start":191.854,"end":217.323,"text":"他一天都不能等啊部長一天都不能等我完全同意他要在這個過程當中他要去判斷我要不要把我小朋友轉班甚至轉學對不對因為他在霸凌校事會議結果出來之前他沒有辦法做這個決定他會認為說如果結果沒出來我小朋友直接轉走現在感覺好像是我小朋友的問題啊對不對到時候我轉走以後隨便老師怎麼講隨便學生怎麼講啊"},{"start":218.666,"end":230.122,"text":"可是他如果要留下來等待那個校式會議兩個月部長剛剛你也講了一天他都很難受但是他要等兩個月部長你覺得這個流程有沒有問題"},{"start":231.976,"end":257.866,"text":"確實我們怎麼樣去減少這一個首先當然就是減少霸凌的一個發生這我們在從課程各方面我們努力我沒有討論到現在就是討論說發生的確實怎麼樣去讓它縮短明確這一些霸凌的一個行為是明確的我們怎麼樣能夠來協助學校快速的來處理這一個行為我相信那是我們共同"},{"start":258.466,"end":274.166,"text":"這是一個同理心的問題嘛為人父為人母知道自己的小朋友在學校被霸凌他可能一天都不能等可是我經歷過非常多家長跟我反映在那個過程當中很多家長處理那個霸凌處理到聲嘶力竭啊"},{"start":275.091,"end":275.591,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":301.243,"end":321.572,"text":"更有效率的解決方式因為兩個月我個人認識在太久然後還有一個臉生的另外一個問題就是因為現在教育部並沒有額外的撥經費給學校去處理這個霸凌校事會議所以學校變得要自己編經費要自己用既有的老師來處理"},{"start":323.393,"end":330.718,"text":"那學校也會覺得負擔有點重啊我不知道說教育部能不能協助國小或國中、高中做這個事情能不能"},{"start":353.553,"end":354.213,"text":"教育部長鄭英耀"},{"start":369.878,"end":369.898,"text":"獲獎獎項目"},{"start":386.992,"end":404.72,"text":"保護學生的作用這個技術性問題希望可以克服一下不要讓他們在寫這些問卷的時候心生恐懼好不好然後再來我之前曾經很關心就校園安全因為現在的社會環境跟以前很大不一樣現在社會環境是詐騙集團盛行"},{"start":406.246,"end":430.328,"text":"所以詐騙集團現在都把手伸到國中去吸收他們的幫派小弟去做詐騙集團的車手所以現在的國中的幫派的情況越來越嚴重那過去教育部常常就推給老師說如果學這種問題的話老師去處理生教組長去處理但部長我想問你請問一下一個老師怎麼去處理幫派的問題在學校"},{"start":431.038,"end":439.467,"text":"我想這個確實對老師的專業已經異躍了他的一個專業上的很難處理啦我講一個真實狀況給部長聽啦你知道現在很多國中的生教組長就是負責我剛剛講那個業務的生教組長"},{"start":446.354,"end":468.574,"text":"都是代理老師你知道這個狀況嗎我進來以後我聽到了你知道為什麼都代理老師因為他確實面臨的挑戰是非常大的是 那所以我們是不是要解決這個問題是兩個建議 第一個如果說教育部沒有辦法在解決這個問題之前能不能提高代理老師特別是生教組長代理老師的待遇可不可以"},{"start":469.67,"end":490.51,"text":"他做了一個正式老師很多不願意做的事他要去解決很多類似問題那個飛行學生的問題但是他的待遇還是用代理老師的待遇部長這個合理嗎這基本上是不合理的我事實上也跟委員報告這部裡邊對代理的老師已經也"},{"start":491.551,"end":515.255,"text":"因為他事實上也扮演一個專任教師的一個身份所以在薪水代理上他是比較專任的老師對,我剛剛講是生教組長生教組長他有的一個主管的一個你再去了解一下生教組長你一直用代理的也不是辦法嘛對不對,你要去了解問題嘛那我剛剛講就是因為他面對很多幫派的學生啊他本來就比較危險嘛"},{"start":517.397,"end":540.375,"text":"然後再來之前我曾經有提過國中能不能比照高中成立校安人員可不可以就是由訓練有數的校安人員來處理剛剛所講的校園安全問題可不可以之前有提案但是教育部也是隨便回我了那因為現在換了一個部長我們希望部長重新思考好不好因為現在校園安全確實是出了狀況"},{"start":541.576,"end":556.478,"text":"那你叫老師去面對這些幫派學生其實是給老師很大的壓力所以應該要專責的訓練有數的人員去面對啦我希望說下一次就等部長熟悉之後再來問部長部長可以給我一個比較肯定的答案因為這個是為了學生好"},{"start":556.718,"end":561.74,"text":"我提出來方案是校安人員嘛那部長如果你有更好方案我們來討論嘛但如果沒有的話你考慮一下就是編一點預算去找校安人員來做嘛好不好 這個下次我再來問部長還有啊"},{"start":582.646,"end":610.093,"text":"現在老師講說在學校寄校規跟校話一樣校規變校話像我們以前小時候大家怕被寄校規為什麼因為寄大過三個大過退學我們現在在學校寄了十個大過沒事然後反而還增加老師的負擔老師為了寄大過還要寫報告寄學生大過還要寫報告那請問一下部長這個校規寄了十個大過都沒有對學生沒有任何影響你不會覺得很奇怪嗎"},{"start":611.26,"end":639.546,"text":"要怎麼處理啊我想有關學生的違規當他某種程度他已經人地不宜啦我們看怎麼樣去協助他我這邊一個建議好不好我這邊一個建議啦我覺得我們還是要設立很多中介組織就是說你今天一個學生他一直犯校規也許他有校園暴力行為記著十個大過要嘛他就待在云南學校要嘛轉到另外一個學校成為另外一個學校的問題"},{"start":641.166,"end":655.738,"text":"那你有解決任何問題嗎?沒有啊今天是不是應該要有一個中介組織讓他先到中介組織接受訓練或是上學然後再做處置嘛你不能說把校規當作是完全沒有那個阻力啊"},{"start":657.271,"end":683.826,"text":"我同意委員說的對這些已經進入需要關懷的我覺得我們教育當然學生人權很重要這些少數學生人權很重要可是我們更應該思考是怎麼樣保護更多善良的學生讓他們可以在一個無憂無慮的教育環境下學習這是應該也是教育部應該要注重的點好不好這也就是今天為什麼我們要討論霸凌跟毒品好不好部長下一次我再來跟你討論謝謝部長謝謝委員"}]}}}}