{"id":153919,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153919","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0d60f94631dbb49cb8ff7e0bc1ebc5021f0c311de3a91f948366593df388743fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:44:34 - 09:54:22","影片長度":"00:09:48","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T09:44:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T09:54:22+08:00","duration":588,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":220,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（9時44分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場的工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。有請內政部馬次長、銓敘部張次長，以及兩位署長──警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長。"],["主席：請馬次長、張次長、兩位署長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：次長好、署長好。首先，我先請教一下警政署張署長，我看到媒體報導，現在全台的警察人力吃緊，單單彰化縣警局今年申請退休的人數就超過555人。詐欺案案量增加，每名偵辦的員警至少都有50件，甚至破百案待查，這種情況下造成他們的退休潮，是不是真的有這樣的情況？"],["張署長榮興：委員早。我想各縣市的狀況不一……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那整體來講，警力有沒有吃緊？"],["張署長榮興：目前的警力大概缺四千多人……"],["鍾委員佳濱：缺了四千多人？好，來，馬次長。"],["張署長榮興：我想今年度10月大概會補足……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我了解現在警力吃緊。馬次長，基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考，如果現職的警力吃緊，大家又想要退休，那可能就兩個方向嘛，一個是減少他們的工作負擔；第二個，提高現職人員的待遇，增加他的福利；那另外一個，就是可能是不是他的退休給付，我們來思考一下。過去我在地方任副首長的時候，曾經有一段時間，好幾十年前了，很多老師要退休，為什麼？因為退休後的所得替代率很高，他覺得我現在工作應付這些小朋友也是領這些錢，不如我退下來。那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊，你認為現在警消人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎？有特別好嗎？有比別人好嗎？有沒有？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，目前警消人員的退休待遇跟公務人員是一樣的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，一樣嘛，所以是跟人家一樣。我們現在請張次長。"],["張次長秋元：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前如果說退休條件沒有比別人好，他還要退休，那顯然是在職人員的待遇或一些給付，或者他的勤務太重。那我們來看一下，今天我們來討論，到底警消是跟誰比有沒有比較好還是比較差？他要跟軍人比，請問跟軍人比來講，我們警消的退休年資，我這樣看一看，普遍來講，軍人退休的時候年資較短，是不是這樣？"],["張次長秋元：對，普遍是這樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：警消人員退休的時候年資比較長？"],["張次長秋元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為退休年齡有差別，軍人限齡退休的年紀較低，是不是這樣？"],["張次長秋元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可是警消人員的退休年齡是跟公務員一樣，是不是這樣？"],["張次長秋元：對。因為軍人有限齡退伍的規定。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，軍人有限齡退休的規定，但是警消人員，剛剛有委員提到，縱使如此，他們還是會比一般公務員早一點退休，因為他們覺得很辛苦，但是我剛剛聽你講到，他們的職等也比較高。"],["張次長秋元：就是我們在俸給結構的設計上面……"],["鍾委員佳濱：他們的俸給比較高嘛。"],["張次長秋元：俸給比較高，所以他一開始在退的時候所得就會比較高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：俸給比較高，所以說縱使他們比一般公務員早一點點退休，他們的退休年資跟他們的退休待遇應該是差不多，甚至再高一點？"],["張次長秋元：他會比同等級的一般公務員大概多一萬塊錢左右。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。所以在軍人的部分，我們看到軍人的所得替代率比較高，因為他退休的時候年資短、待遇低，所以他的替代率高一點，他領的才會多。但是如果以公務人員或警消來講，他們退職的時候年資長、待遇高，他的替代率稍微低一點，其實領的還是不比軍人少，是不是這樣子？"],["張次長秋元：我覺得這兩個制度是沒有辦法比較的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是沒辦法比較的，所以說……"],["張次長秋元：對，沒有辦法比較，因為軍人的年資真的很短。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你說軍人的年資真的很短，好。"],["張次長秋元：大多數的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以，這兩種退休制度沒有辦法跨制度、跨系統來比較……"],["張次長秋元：對，我們現在基金也是都分帳去管理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝次長，次長請回。馬次長，現在問題就來了，對警消來講，如果現在我們有兩個選項，你要提高現職人員的安全保障還是提高退休人員的給付？如果你可以選的話，哪個你要優先辦理？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，我們一定會優先針對現職警消人員的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。那你有什麼具體計畫來強化現職警消人員的人身安全以及他的保障？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，從105年開始，我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫，這16個計畫包括提高警察人員的俸表，還有調升警察人員的警勤加給等等，其實都一直有在修正……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你講的是待遇，但是我覺得現在大家看到英勇警消的傷亡損失，我們很心痛，所以要請教一下警政署張署長，你有沒有穿過防彈衣？"],["張署長榮興：有，有穿過。"],["鍾委員佳濱：每個員警是不是都有配發？"],["張署長榮興：都有配發。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。請問消防署蕭署長，你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己？"],["蕭署長煥章：這些都已經到位，甚至還有備援。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都已經到位了？"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。但是我還要提醒一點，其實每個人的個別差異都不一樣，公發的設備無法滿足每一個人的需求。我知道在其他國家，例如美國，他們的警消都可以自己買個人裝備，因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道，他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上，對不對？你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己，有沒有？公發裝備以外的東西，因為身材的差異，他可能哪裡需要補強，有沒有這樣的需求？"],["張署長榮興：幾乎沒有，都是公家買的比較多。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們沒有這樣的需求？公家買的，那有沒有人自己再強化一點？"],["張署長榮興：如果自己要強化一點，應該有的也是有……"],["鍾委員佳濱：應該有的。消防署呢，有沒有？因為你們的身材有差異不太一樣。"],["蕭署長煥章：因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準。"],["鍾委員佳濱：國際標準，好。我問馬次長，你在這方面很熟，你知道其他國家的警消人員，他們會不會自行購買裝備？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，我們看其他國家的例子，以美國來講，他們會有國家認證過的裝備，只要是國家認證過的裝備，他們都可以購買。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有國家認證過的？好。我希望你們考量一下，編列預算讓警消人員，他們可以因為個別的身體差異自己買一些裝備來補強，給他一定定額的補助，回去參考。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：接下來我們來看新竹的事情，求救的譯文曝光了，可是消防局長的說法卻不一樣，現在居然要查是誰洩密。請教一下，我們消防有督察系統嗎？蕭署長，有沒有督察系統？"],["蕭署長煥章：我們督察系統是兼任人員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：警政署長，你們有沒有督察系統？"],["張署長榮興：有，有督察系統。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。我問一下次長，其實這兩個系統我知道，我在地方政府服務過，警察的督察系統很嚴密，他們對於要包庇、失職，從上面下去查，提供資料大部分都……是不是這樣子？"],["馬次長士元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是我覺得這一次呈現一個問題，我們消防的督察系統可能不夠落實，回去要好好檢討一下，可以嗎？"],["馬次長士元：好，謝謝委員，我們會檢討。"],["鍾委員佳濱：接下來最後一點時間，我要跟主席爭取一點時間。現在我們來看一下，這是我查過的，從公保、公務人員的退休給付來看，請問銓敘部張次長，這些是退休之後才能領的嘛，對不對？"],["張次長秋元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是現職人員如果英勇救災而因公殉職，請問次長，那是不是只有底下這些辦法可以領？"],["張次長秋元：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那請教一下，我們現在講的現職人員保障是從底下的這些辦法來強化，那是銓敘部的業務嗎？"],["張次長秋元：這個應該說……"],["鍾委員佳濱：這些現職人員是因公殉職而撫卹。"],["張次長秋元：屬於公務人員的部分是銓敘部的業務，那有一部分是在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：內政部自己的？"],["張次長秋元：對，內政部，是警察人員人事條例第三十六條……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，馬次長，我們來看一下你管的部分，我們從警察再往下看，我們來看消防，消防也是一樣，如果現職人員因公而殉職，他這些撫卹都是一次性的嗎？"],["馬次長士元：一次性。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，兩位署長，我過去在地方服務，以前如果有員警因公殉職，我們都會把機關裡面一些工友或做服務工作的約聘僱職缺給他們的遺孀、遺族，是不是這樣子？"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為他需要的是常態性的保障。"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是我們這些退撫都是一次性的，有沒有讓遺族領取年金給付的方式？警察有沒有？"],["張署長榮興：這可以選擇。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以選擇？"],["張署長榮興：可以選擇。"],["鍾委員佳濱：消防有沒有？"],["蕭署長煥章：也是一樣。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也是有。次長，我要問一下，其實目前在我們的制度上，現職的警消人員如果因公殉職，對他的遺族的確有年金式的照顧方式，但是義警、義消有沒有？義警、義消是沒有的，因為他們不是公保系統，也不是我們撫卹的對象，他們只有一些我們自己額外給他們補助，我給你一個參考。"],["馬次長士元：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在有沒有幫義警投保？"],["馬次長士元：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有投保人身意外險，就是團體保險，其實你們可以跟保險公司商量一下你們投保的方式，如果義警、義消真的因公撫卹，對遺族就比照警消，一樣都可以用年金的方式來處理，可以考慮一下嗎？"],["馬次長士元：好，我們回去檢討。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們做最後的結論，因為主席已經站起來了，請內政部評估編列預算補助警消人員購買個人裝備的可行性，一個月提出書面報告，可以嗎？"],["馬次長士元：好的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第二個，對義警、義交或義消人員的人身安全保障，你們幫他們投保的項目上，還有對因公殉職者遺族的照顧，你們去研議增列年金給付的方式，在你們購買商業保險時用這種方式提供他這樣的保障，可以嗎？"],["馬次長士元：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請蘇巧慧委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 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\"會\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 572.574, \"end\": 572.614, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 572.614, \"end\": 572.734, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 572.734, \"end\": 572.754, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,038 --> 00:00:25,889\n主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關長官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部馬次長詮釋部張次長以及兩位警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長\n\n2\n00:00:33,352 --> 00:00:53,644\n次長好署長好首先我先請教一下我們警政署張署長我這邊看到我們的媒體報導現在全台的警察人力吃緊單單彰化縣警局就申請退休有超過555人那你說的詐欺案的案量增加每個偵辦的員警他都至少50件\n\n3\n00:00:54,937 --> 00:00:55,999\n二）委員馬志長等19人擬具\n\n4\n00:01:17,601 --> 00:01:31,156\n基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考如果限職的警力吃緊大家想退休那可能就兩個方向一個是怎樣減少他們的工作負擔第二個限職人員提高他的待遇增加他的福利\n\n5\n00:01:31,909 --> 00:02:00,703\n那另外一個呢就是他可能是不是退休的己父啊我們來思考一下過去我在地方任副首長的時候呢曾經有一段時間好幾十年前了很多老師要退休為什麼因為退休後的所得替代率很高他覺得我現在工作小朋友也是領這些錢不如我退下來那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊你認為現在的警察警校人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎有特別好嗎有比別人好嗎\n\n6\n00:02:02,372 --> 00:02:06,181\n公務員報告,我們目前警消人員的退休待遇是跟公務員人一樣。\n\n7\n00:02:12,401 --> 00:02:13,742\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三\n\n8\n00:02:35,334 --> 00:02:49,068\n軍人的退休年資,退休的時候年資較短,是不是這樣,普遍來講?對,普遍是這樣。那警校人員退休年資比較長?對。那因為呢,年齡的差別,因為軍人的退休年紀限制,現年退休年齡較低,是不是這樣?對。\n\n9\n00:02:50,128 --> 00:02:51,910\n警察人員人事條例第三警察人員人事條例第三\n\n10\n00:03:09,432 --> 00:03:09,952\n三草案．立法院第11會議\n\n11\n00:03:35,476 --> 00:03:46,444\n提待率高一點他領的才會多但是呢如果以公務人員或警校來講如果他們退職的時候年資長待遇高他的提待率稍微低一點其實領的還是不比軍人少是不是這樣子\n\n12\n00:03:46,817 --> 00:03:48,178\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n\n13\n00:04:10,356 --> 00:04:32,112\n那現在就會來了,如果說現在我們兩個選項,限職人員你要提高限職人員的安全保障還是提高他的退休人員的給付,若你可以選的話你哪個優先要辦理?對於警消來講。跟委員報告,我們一定會優先針對限職的警消人員。好,那你有什麼具體計畫來強化限職警消人員的人身安全及他的保障?\n\n14\n00:04:32,991 --> 00:05:01,124\n跟委員報告我們從105年開始我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫是那這16個計畫從這個包括他的警察員的縫表的一個提高那還有就是說我們一些警察員警刑加警表的修正其實都一直有在修正你講的是待遇但是我覺得現在大家看到我們警消的一些英勇的警消他們的傷亡損失我們很心痛所以請教一下\n\n15\n00:05:02,978 --> 00:05:16,448\n警政署張署長你有沒有穿過防彈衣每個員警是不是都有配發來那個消防署消防署長你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己但是我還要提醒一點\n\n16\n00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:48,324\n其實每個人的個別差異有不一樣公發的設備無法滿足每個人差別我知道在其他國家美國他們的警校都可以自己買個人裝備因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上對不對你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己有沒有公發裝備以外的東西因為身材的差異他可能哪裡需要補強有沒有這樣的需求你們沒有這樣的需求公家買的那有沒有人自己再強化一點\n\n17\n00:05:50,175 --> 00:06:05,836\n如果自己要強化一點應該有的應該有的消防署呢有沒有因為你們的身材差異不太一樣啊因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準國際標準好來我要馬次長你在這方面很熟啊你知道其他國家的這樣的警消人員他們有沒有會自行購買裝備\n\n18\n00:06:07,028 --> 00:06:07,308\n二）委員\n\n19\n00:06:31,869 --> 00:06:48,031\n求救的一文曝光可是消防局長說法卻不一樣現在居然要查他是洩密請教一下我們消防有督察系統嗎市長來來來消防長有沒有督察系統是我們督察系統是鑑認人員來警政署長有沒有你們有沒有督察系統\n\n20\n00:06:49,138 --> 00:06:49,538\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n\n21\n00:07:13,607 --> 00:07:19,790\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．立法院第11\n\n22\n00:07:31,087 --> 00:07:56,232\n好那請教一下齁那麼如果我們現在講的是限職人員保障是不是從底下的這些辦法來強化那是全巡部的業務嗎底下的這些限職人員應供撫恤的內政部自己的好馬市長來現在是這樣齁我們來看一下你管的這次警察在往下看看消防\n\n23\n00:07:56,852 --> 00:08:03,353\n二）委員夏旺也是一樣,其實現職人員因公而殉職他這些撫訓是一次性的嗎?\n\n24\n00:08:05,049 --> 00:08:30,397\n是一次性的?一次性好來兩位署長我過去在地方服務啦齁以前如果我們的員警警察因公殉職啊我們都會在機關裡面給予一些什麼工友啦或一些服務的餘貧物資給他們的遺孀啊是不是這樣子因為他需要的是常態性的保障嘛是好但是我們這些退府呢都沒有都是一次性的有沒有說給遺族年金給負責方式領取的警察有沒有\n\n25\n00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:48,924\n這可以選擇可以選擇可以選擇消防有沒有也是有來次長來我現在就是說其實目前的制度上給予限職的警消人員的確有遺族他如果因公許他遺族有年金式的照顧方式但是一警一消有沒有\n\n26\n00:08:50,875 --> 00:08:51,816\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n\n27\n00:09:15,219 --> 00:09:29,031\n都可以用年薪的方式來處理。」可以考慮一下嗎?好,我們最後的結論已經站起來了。那麼請內政部評估編列預算補助警察人員購買個人裝備的可行性,一個月提出送兵報告,可以嗎?\n\n28\n00:09:30,233 --> 00:09:32,754\n二（立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13038\t25889\t主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關長官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部馬次長詮釋部張次長以及兩位警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長\n33352\t53644\t次長好署長好首先我先請教一下我們警政署張署長我這邊看到我們的媒體報導現在全台的警察人力吃緊單單彰化縣警局就申請退休有超過555人那你說的詐欺案的案量增加每個偵辦的員警他都至少50件\n54937\t55999\t二）委員馬志長等19人擬具\n77601\t91156\t基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考如果限職的警力吃緊大家想退休那可能就兩個方向一個是怎樣減少他們的工作負擔第二個限職人員提高他的待遇增加他的福利\n91909\t120703\t那另外一個呢就是他可能是不是退休的己父啊我們來思考一下過去我在地方任副首長的時候呢曾經有一段時間好幾十年前了很多老師要退休為什麼因為退休後的所得替代率很高他覺得我現在工作小朋友也是領這些錢不如我退下來那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊你認為現在的警察警校人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎有特別好嗎有比別人好嗎\n122372\t126181\t公務員報告,我們目前警消人員的退休待遇是跟公務員人一樣。\n132401\t133742\t二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三\n155334\t169068\t軍人的退休年資,退休的時候年資較短,是不是這樣,普遍來講?對,普遍是這樣。那警校人員退休年資比較長?對。那因為呢,年齡的差別,因為軍人的退休年紀限制,現年退休年齡較低,是不是這樣?對。\n170128\t171910\t警察人員人事條例第三警察人員人事條例第三\n189432\t189952\t三草案．立法院第11會議\n215476\t226444\t提待率高一點他領的才會多但是呢如果以公務人員或警校來講如果他們退職的時候年資長待遇高他的提待率稍微低一點其實領的還是不比軍人少是不是這樣子\n226817\t228178\t二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n250356\t272112\t那現在就會來了,如果說現在我們兩個選項,限職人員你要提高限職人員的安全保障還是提高他的退休人員的給付,若你可以選的話你哪個優先要辦理?對於警消來講。跟委員報告,我們一定會優先針對限職的警消人員。好,那你有什麼具體計畫來強化限職警消人員的人身安全及他的保障?\n272991\t301124\t跟委員報告我們從105年開始我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫是那這16個計畫從這個包括他的警察員的縫表的一個提高那還有就是說我們一些警察員警刑加警表的修正其實都一直有在修正你講的是待遇但是我覺得現在大家看到我們警消的一些英勇的警消他們的傷亡損失我們很心痛所以請教一下\n302978\t316448\t警政署張署長你有沒有穿過防彈衣每個員警是不是都有配發來那個消防署消防署長你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己但是我還要提醒一點\n319970\t348324\t其實每個人的個別差異有不一樣公發的設備無法滿足每個人差別我知道在其他國家美國他們的警校都可以自己買個人裝備因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上對不對你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己有沒有公發裝備以外的東西因為身材的差異他可能哪裡需要補強有沒有這樣的需求你們沒有這樣的需求公家買的那有沒有人自己再強化一點\n350175\t365836\t如果自己要強化一點應該有的應該有的消防署呢有沒有因為你們的身材差異不太一樣啊因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準國際標準好來我要馬次長你在這方面很熟啊你知道其他國家的這樣的警消人員他們有沒有會自行購買裝備\n367028\t367308\t二）委員\n391869\t408031\t求救的一文曝光可是消防局長說法卻不一樣現在居然要查他是洩密請教一下我們消防有督察系統嗎市長來來來消防長有沒有督察系統是我們督察系統是鑑認人員來警政署長有沒有你們有沒有督察系統\n409138\t409538\t二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n433607\t439790\t條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．立法院第11\n451087\t476232\t好 那請教一下齁 那麼如果我們現在講的是限職人員保障 是不是從底下的這些辦法來強化 那是全巡部的業務嗎底下的這些限職人員 應供撫恤的內政部自己的 好 馬市長來 現在是這樣齁 我們來看一下 你管的 這次警察在往下看 看消防\n476852\t483353\t二）委員夏旺也是一樣,其實現職人員因公而殉職他這些撫訓是一次性的嗎?\n485049\t510397\t是一次性的?一次性好來兩位署長我過去在地方服務啦齁以前如果我們的員警警察因公殉職啊我們都會在機關裡面給予一些什麼工友啦或一些服務的餘貧物資給他們的遺孀啊是不是這樣子因為他需要的是常態性的保障嘛是好但是我們這些退府呢都沒有都是一次性的有沒有說給遺族年金給負責方式領取的警察有沒有\n512080\t528924\t這可以選擇可以選擇可以選擇消防有沒有也是有來次長來我現在就是說其實目前的制度上給予限職的警消人員的確有遺族他如果因公許他遺族有年金式的照顧方式但是一警一消有沒有\n530875\t531816\t二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n555219\t569031\t都可以用年薪的方式來處理。」可以考慮一下嗎?好,我們最後的結論已經站起來了。那麼請內政部評估編列預算補助警察人員購買個人裝備的可行性,一個月提出送兵報告,可以嗎?\n570233\t572754\t二（立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n","txt":"主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關長官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部馬次長詮釋部張次長以及兩位警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長\n次長好署長好首先我先請教一下我們警政署張署長我這邊看到我們的媒體報導現在全台的警察人力吃緊單單彰化縣警局就申請退休有超過555人那你說的詐欺案的案量增加每個偵辦的員警他都至少50件\n二）委員馬志長等19人擬具\n基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考如果限職的警力吃緊大家想退休那可能就兩個方向一個是怎樣減少他們的工作負擔第二個限職人員提高他的待遇增加他的福利\n那另外一個呢就是他可能是不是退休的己父啊我們來思考一下過去我在地方任副首長的時候呢曾經有一段時間好幾十年前了很多老師要退休為什麼因為退休後的所得替代率很高他覺得我現在工作小朋友也是領這些錢不如我退下來那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊你認為現在的警察警校人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎有特別好嗎有比別人好嗎\n公務員報告,我們目前警消人員的退休待遇是跟公務員人一樣。\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三\n軍人的退休年資,退休的時候年資較短,是不是這樣,普遍來講?對,普遍是這樣。那警校人員退休年資比較長?對。那因為呢,年齡的差別,因為軍人的退休年紀限制,現年退休年齡較低,是不是這樣?對。\n警察人員人事條例第三警察人員人事條例第三\n三草案．立法院第11會議\n提待率高一點他領的才會多但是呢如果以公務人員或警校來講如果他們退職的時候年資長待遇高他的提待率稍微低一點其實領的還是不比軍人少是不是這樣子\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n那現在就會來了,如果說現在我們兩個選項,限職人員你要提高限職人員的安全保障還是提高他的退休人員的給付,若你可以選的話你哪個優先要辦理?對於警消來講。跟委員報告,我們一定會優先針對限職的警消人員。好,那你有什麼具體計畫來強化限職警消人員的人身安全及他的保障?\n跟委員報告我們從105年開始我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫是那這16個計畫從這個包括他的警察員的縫表的一個提高那還有就是說我們一些警察員警刑加警表的修正其實都一直有在修正你講的是待遇但是我覺得現在大家看到我們警消的一些英勇的警消他們的傷亡損失我們很心痛所以請教一下\n警政署張署長你有沒有穿過防彈衣每個員警是不是都有配發來那個消防署消防署長你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己但是我還要提醒一點\n其實每個人的個別差異有不一樣公發的設備無法滿足每個人差別我知道在其他國家美國他們的警校都可以自己買個人裝備因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上對不對你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己有沒有公發裝備以外的東西因為身材的差異他可能哪裡需要補強有沒有這樣的需求你們沒有這樣的需求公家買的那有沒有人自己再強化一點\n如果自己要強化一點應該有的應該有的消防署呢有沒有因為你們的身材差異不太一樣啊因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準國際標準好來我要馬次長你在這方面很熟啊你知道其他國家的這樣的警消人員他們有沒有會自行購買裝備\n二）委員\n求救的一文曝光可是消防局長說法卻不一樣現在居然要查他是洩密請教一下我們消防有督察系統嗎市長來來來消防長有沒有督察系統是我們督察系統是鑑認人員來警政署長有沒有你們有沒有督察系統\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．立法院第11\n好 那請教一下齁 那麼如果我們現在講的是限職人員保障 是不是從底下的這些辦法來強化 那是全巡部的業務嗎底下的這些限職人員 應供撫恤的內政部自己的 好 馬市長來 現在是這樣齁 我們來看一下 你管的 這次警察在往下看 看消防\n二）委員夏旺也是一樣,其實現職人員因公而殉職他這些撫訓是一次性的嗎?\n是一次性的?一次性好來兩位署長我過去在地方服務啦齁以前如果我們的員警警察因公殉職啊我們都會在機關裡面給予一些什麼工友啦或一些服務的餘貧物資給他們的遺孀啊是不是這樣子因為他需要的是常態性的保障嘛是好但是我們這些退府呢都沒有都是一次性的有沒有說給遺族年金給負責方式領取的警察有沒有\n這可以選擇可以選擇可以選擇消防有沒有也是有來次長來我現在就是說其實目前的制度上給予限職的警消人員的確有遺族他如果因公許他遺族有年金式的照顧方式但是一警一消有沒有\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n都可以用年薪的方式來處理。」可以考慮一下嗎?好,我們最後的結論已經站起來了。那麼請內政部評估編列預算補助警察人員購買個人裝備的可行性,一個月提出送兵報告,可以嗎?\n二（立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.038 --> 00:25.889\n主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關長官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部馬次長詮釋部張次長以及兩位警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長\n\n00:33.352 --> 00:53.644\n次長好署長好首先我先請教一下我們警政署張署長我這邊看到我們的媒體報導現在全台的警察人力吃緊單單彰化縣警局就申請退休有超過555人那你說的詐欺案的案量增加每個偵辦的員警他都至少50件\n\n00:54.937 --> 00:55.999\n二）委員馬志長等19人擬具\n\n01:17.601 --> 01:31.156\n基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考如果限職的警力吃緊大家想退休那可能就兩個方向一個是怎樣減少他們的工作負擔第二個限職人員提高他的待遇增加他的福利\n\n01:31.909 --> 02:00.703\n那另外一個呢就是他可能是不是退休的己父啊我們來思考一下過去我在地方任副首長的時候呢曾經有一段時間好幾十年前了很多老師要退休為什麼因為退休後的所得替代率很高他覺得我現在工作小朋友也是領這些錢不如我退下來那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊你認為現在的警察警校人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎有特別好嗎有比別人好嗎\n\n02:02.372 --> 02:06.181\n公務員報告,我們目前警消人員的退休待遇是跟公務員人一樣。\n\n02:12.401 --> 02:13.742\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三\n\n02:35.334 --> 02:49.068\n軍人的退休年資,退休的時候年資較短,是不是這樣,普遍來講?對,普遍是這樣。那警校人員退休年資比較長?對。那因為呢,年齡的差別,因為軍人的退休年紀限制,現年退休年齡較低,是不是這樣?對。\n\n02:50.128 --> 02:51.910\n警察人員人事條例第三警察人員人事條例第三\n\n03:09.432 --> 03:09.952\n三草案．立法院第11會議\n\n03:35.476 --> 03:46.444\n提待率高一點他領的才會多但是呢如果以公務人員或警校來講如果他們退職的時候年資長待遇高他的提待率稍微低一點其實領的還是不比軍人少是不是這樣子\n\n03:46.817 --> 03:48.178\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n\n04:10.356 --> 04:32.112\n那現在就會來了,如果說現在我們兩個選項,限職人員你要提高限職人員的安全保障還是提高他的退休人員的給付,若你可以選的話你哪個優先要辦理?對於警消來講。跟委員報告,我們一定會優先針對限職的警消人員。好,那你有什麼具體計畫來強化限職警消人員的人身安全及他的保障?\n\n04:32.991 --> 05:01.124\n跟委員報告我們從105年開始我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫是那這16個計畫從這個包括他的警察員的縫表的一個提高那還有就是說我們一些警察員警刑加警表的修正其實都一直有在修正你講的是待遇但是我覺得現在大家看到我們警消的一些英勇的警消他們的傷亡損失我們很心痛所以請教一下\n\n05:02.978 --> 05:16.448\n警政署張署長你有沒有穿過防彈衣每個員警是不是都有配發來那個消防署消防署長你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己但是我還要提醒一點\n\n05:19.970 --> 05:48.324\n其實每個人的個別差異有不一樣公發的設備無法滿足每個人差別我知道在其他國家美國他們的警校都可以自己買個人裝備因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上對不對你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己有沒有公發裝備以外的東西因為身材的差異他可能哪裡需要補強有沒有這樣的需求你們沒有這樣的需求公家買的那有沒有人自己再強化一點\n\n05:50.175 --> 06:05.836\n如果自己要強化一點應該有的應該有的消防署呢有沒有因為你們的身材差異不太一樣啊因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準國際標準好來我要馬次長你在這方面很熟啊你知道其他國家的這樣的警消人員他們有沒有會自行購買裝備\n\n06:07.028 --> 06:07.308\n二）委員\n\n06:31.869 --> 06:48.031\n求救的一文曝光可是消防局長說法卻不一樣現在居然要查他是洩密請教一下我們消防有督察系統嗎市長來來來消防長有沒有督察系統是我們督察系統是鑑認人員來警政署長有沒有你們有沒有督察系統\n\n06:49.138 --> 06:49.538\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n\n07:13.607 --> 07:19.790\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．立法院第11\n\n07:31.087 --> 07:56.232\n好那請教一下齁那麼如果我們現在講的是限職人員保障是不是從底下的這些辦法來強化那是全巡部的業務嗎底下的這些限職人員應供撫恤的內政部自己的好馬市長來現在是這樣齁我們來看一下你管的這次警察在往下看看消防\n\n07:56.852 --> 08:03.353\n二）委員夏旺也是一樣,其實現職人員因公而殉職他這些撫訓是一次性的嗎?\n\n08:05.049 --> 08:30.397\n是一次性的?一次性好來兩位署長我過去在地方服務啦齁以前如果我們的員警警察因公殉職啊我們都會在機關裡面給予一些什麼工友啦或一些服務的餘貧物資給他們的遺孀啊是不是這樣子因為他需要的是常態性的保障嘛是好但是我們這些退府呢都沒有都是一次性的有沒有說給遺族年金給負責方式領取的警察有沒有\n\n08:32.080 --> 08:48.924\n這可以選擇可以選擇可以選擇消防有沒有也是有來次長來我現在就是說其實目前的制度上給予限職的警消人員的確有遺族他如果因公許他遺族有年金式的照顧方式但是一警一消有沒有\n\n08:50.875 --> 08:51.816\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n\n09:15.219 --> 09:29.031\n都可以用年薪的方式來處理。」可以考慮一下嗎?好,我們最後的結論已經站起來了。那麼請內政部評估編列預算補助警察人員購買個人裝備的可行性,一個月提出送兵報告,可以嗎?\n\n09:30.233 --> 09:32.754\n二（立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.038,"end":25.889,"text":"主席在場的委員先進列席的政府機關長官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請內政部馬次長詮釋部張次長以及兩位警政署張署長和消防署蕭署長"},{"start":33.352,"end":53.644,"text":"次長好署長好首先我先請教一下我們警政署張署長我這邊看到我們的媒體報導現在全台的警察人力吃緊單單彰化縣警局就申請退休有超過555人那你說的詐欺案的案量增加每個偵辦的員警他都至少50件"},{"start":54.937,"end":55.999,"text":"二）委員馬志長等19人擬具"},{"start":77.601,"end":91.156,"text":"基本上我們大概有三個面向去思考如果限職的警力吃緊大家想退休那可能就兩個方向一個是怎樣減少他們的工作負擔第二個限職人員提高他的待遇增加他的福利"},{"start":91.909,"end":120.703,"text":"那另外一個呢就是他可能是不是退休的己父啊我們來思考一下過去我在地方任副首長的時候呢曾經有一段時間好幾十年前了很多老師要退休為什麼因為退休後的所得替代率很高他覺得我現在工作小朋友也是領這些錢不如我退下來那你認為方向上如果遇到警力吃緊你認為現在的警察警校人員的退休待遇有非常好嗎有特別好嗎有比別人好嗎"},{"start":122.372,"end":126.181,"text":"公務員報告,我們目前警消人員的退休待遇是跟公務員人一樣。"},{"start":132.401,"end":133.742,"text":"二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三"},{"start":155.334,"end":169.068,"text":"軍人的退休年資,退休的時候年資較短,是不是這樣,普遍來講?對,普遍是這樣。那警校人員退休年資比較長?對。那因為呢,年齡的差別,因為軍人的退休年紀限制,現年退休年齡較低,是不是這樣?對。"},{"start":170.128,"end":171.91,"text":"警察人員人事條例第三警察人員人事條例第三"},{"start":189.432,"end":189.952,"text":"三草案．立法院第11會議"},{"start":215.476,"end":226.444,"text":"提待率高一點他領的才會多但是呢如果以公務人員或警校來講如果他們退職的時候年資長待遇高他的提待率稍微低一點其實領的還是不比軍人少是不是這樣子"},{"start":226.817,"end":228.178,"text":"二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具"},{"start":250.356,"end":272.112,"text":"那現在就會來了,如果說現在我們兩個選項,限職人員你要提高限職人員的安全保障還是提高他的退休人員的給付,若你可以選的話你哪個優先要辦理?對於警消來講。跟委員報告,我們一定會優先針對限職的警消人員。好,那你有什麼具體計畫來強化限職警消人員的人身安全及他的保障?"},{"start":272.991,"end":301.124,"text":"跟委員報告我們從105年開始我們在警方的部分總共執行了16個計畫是那這16個計畫從這個包括他的警察員的縫表的一個提高那還有就是說我們一些警察員警刑加警表的修正其實都一直有在修正你講的是待遇但是我覺得現在大家看到我們警消的一些英勇的警消他們的傷亡損失我們很心痛所以請教一下"},{"start":302.978,"end":316.448,"text":"警政署張署長你有沒有穿過防彈衣每個員警是不是都有配發來那個消防署消防署長你們的消防弟兄是不是都有公發的裝備來保護自己但是我還要提醒一點"},{"start":319.97,"end":348.324,"text":"其實每個人的個別差異有不一樣公發的設備無法滿足每個人差別我知道在其他國家美國他們的警校都可以自己買個人裝備因為需要強化哪裡他自己知道他也不會去買一些沒有用的東西放在身上對不對你們的弟兄有沒有自己花錢去買裝備來保護自己有沒有公發裝備以外的東西因為身材的差異他可能哪裡需要補強有沒有這樣的需求你們沒有這樣的需求公家買的那有沒有人自己再強化一點"},{"start":350.175,"end":365.836,"text":"如果自己要強化一點應該有的應該有的消防署呢有沒有因為你們的身材差異不太一樣啊因為我們的裝備都是要國際的標準國際標準好來我要馬次長你在這方面很熟啊你知道其他國家的這樣的警消人員他們有沒有會自行購買裝備"},{"start":367.028,"end":367.308,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":391.869,"end":408.031,"text":"求救的一文曝光可是消防局長說法卻不一樣現在居然要查他是洩密請教一下我們消防有督察系統嗎市長來來來消防長有沒有督察系統是我們督察系統是鑑認人員來警政署長有沒有你們有沒有督察系統"},{"start":409.138,"end":409.538,"text":"二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具"},{"start":433.607,"end":439.79,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．立法院第11"},{"start":451.087,"end":476.232,"text":"好 那請教一下齁 那麼如果我們現在講的是限職人員保障 是不是從底下的這些辦法來強化 那是全巡部的業務嗎底下的這些限職人員 應供撫恤的內政部自己的 好 馬市長來 現在是這樣齁 我們來看一下 你管的 這次警察在往下看 看消防"},{"start":476.852,"end":483.353,"text":"二）委員夏旺也是一樣,其實現職人員因公而殉職他這些撫訓是一次性的嗎?"},{"start":485.049,"end":510.397,"text":"是一次性的?一次性好來兩位署長我過去在地方服務啦齁以前如果我們的員警警察因公殉職啊我們都會在機關裡面給予一些什麼工友啦或一些服務的餘貧物資給他們的遺孀啊是不是這樣子因為他需要的是常態性的保障嘛是好但是我們這些退府呢都沒有都是一次性的有沒有說給遺族年金給負責方式領取的警察有沒有"},{"start":512.08,"end":528.924,"text":"這可以選擇可以選擇可以選擇消防有沒有也是有來次長來我現在就是說其實目前的制度上給予限職的警消人員的確有遺族他如果因公許他遺族有年金式的照顧方式但是一警一消有沒有"},{"start":530.875,"end":531.816,"text":"二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具"},{"start":555.219,"end":569.031,"text":"都可以用年薪的方式來處理。」可以考慮一下嗎?好,我們最後的結論已經站起來了。那麼請內政部評估編列預算補助警察人員購買個人裝備的可行性,一個月提出送兵報告,可以嗎?"},{"start":570.233,"end":572.754,"text":"二（立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"}]}}}}