{"id":153924,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153924","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0f084492369855d628ff7e0bc1ebc5021ae5baf1b56d477340f8b18e26c9fd1175ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:54:32 - 10:03:01","影片長度":"00:08:29","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T09:54:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T10:03:01+08:00","duration":509,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":319,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時54分）謝謝主席。我們請內政部馬次長還有警政署張署長。"],["主席：馬次長，張署長麻煩。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝。我先請署長回答一下，我剛剛聽到您在回答鍾委員的時候……跟我一樣，我想從新聞事件來切入，在5月6號我們看到媒體報導彰化兩千七百多人裡面爆發了今年多達555人要申請退休，在二千七百多裡面有555，這樣算起來是幾成？"],["張署長榮興：大概四分之一。"],["蘇委員巧慧：但是他這邊是寫兩成，所以我也不知道他在算什麼。但是在接下來下一句就說：當然啦！申請退休也不一定等於直接要退休，但是還是很可怕。我也想說：哇！這個也不知道在寫什麼。然後這篇報導接著就被香港的媒體轉用了，在轉用的時候標題就直接改變了，變成是：臺灣的警界爆退職潮，還有寫「或因年金改革所致」。我們給你看這樣的一個報導，署長，你看一下這幾年退休的人數，署長，彰化是真的有退休潮嗎？你先回答我，彰化真的有退休潮嗎？國內真的有警界的退休潮嗎？"],["張署長榮興：跟委員報告，這個因為各縣市都不一，所以也不見得是像報導說的彰化有這樣的退休潮，他只是登記要退休，但是實際退休的不會有那麼多人。"],["蘇委員巧慧：登記要退休的意義是什麼？"],["張署長榮興：就是我想要在什麼時候退休，但是他到了登記要退休的那個時間，他就不退了啊！"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以是登記今年要退休嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對，他登記。"],["蘇委員巧慧：登記時在上面寫預計今年要退休，是這樣子嗎？"],["張署長榮興：對，跟縣府登記，因為他是屬於各縣市政府，但是實際退的大概是四十幾個人而已。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以這個要不要退休的意願跟是不是真的申請其實有很大的差距。"],["張署長榮興：所以有兩個意義，就是你登記是這樣想而已，但是實際到了登記要退的時間並沒有真的退。"],["蘇委員巧慧：如果是想的話，每個人也都想要退休，老實講，我們工作一輩子，不就是為了在退休以後要有好的生活？而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力，這就是我們在努力的目標。你看我這邊有列舉從2015年到2021年實際的退休人數和平均的退休年齡，老實講，你看我特別標記了2018年，這是我們年金改革的這個年份，請問署長，你從這個表單裡面有看出什麼樣的意涵嗎？在年金改革之後提早退休的人數有大量的增加嗎？其實沒有啊！退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提，大家拚命的在還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎？老實講，看起來也不像啊！"],["張署長榮興：反而減少。"],["蘇委員巧慧：反而減少，這些數據很清楚的列在這裡嘛！當然後面在2022以後的是也還沒有，不過我想這個報導把兩件事情加起來，我就不得不想到最近還有另外一則報導，就是報導在網路上面的Dcard有一個空軍的飛官寫匿名信，內容是：我寧願損失300萬年薪，我也一定要走人。最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛！認知作戰嘛！根本就沒有這個人。所以我覺得警政署在看到這一類新聞的時候，其實你們也應該要跟空軍一樣，要能夠儘快的有正確的消息，我們尊重大家退職的意願，但是如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵，導致我們的警察軍心渙散或是有別的想法，我覺得警界就要儘速澄清，署長，你同意吧？"],["張署長榮興：同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你同意啦！那我們繼續來看，說實在的，今天在討論的其實跟我們過去的年金改革有很大的關係，我們過去的年金改革不只希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活，但是對年輕世代也是一種公平、世代正義的進行，所以它不是針對特定職業或個人，是大家每一個面向、每一個職業要一起來看的，那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看，會不會對其他的職業有所影響？我當然非常尊敬警察，我也覺得應該要保障警察，我每次去警友會、去警察活動的時候，我都告訴他們，如果任何警察有需要的部分，只要能夠維護社會的秩序，因為現在說實在的，我認為在臺灣最忙的三種職業就是小學老師、小七店員還有警察，說真的，他們要做的事情真的是包山包海。所以警察照顧了我們，我們當然也應該照顧他們，對不對？要權給權、要錢給錢、要人給人嘛！可是針對退休金、退休俸等等確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的衡平性，這也是一個不得不然、為了公平的狀況。今天我們直接就法條來看的話，現在要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條，你可不可以告訴我們原條文設計的三款有什麼樣的意義？"],["張署長榮興：就是對擔任危勞職務者降低退休的年齡。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以如果依照現行原條文的三款，如果是辛苦的人、在執勤中受傷的人、有功的人，其實對他的退休等於是有一個差別在，對於在過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞、感謝、肯定等意涵在內，我可以這樣認為嗎？第三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計，會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的，以表彰他在這個工作上面的……"],["張署長榮興：他會是提早退休而已。"],["蘇委員巧慧：他會是提早退休嘛！對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，所以在這樣的狀況下，老實說，如果我們今天再加上新的條文，讓所有的警察不分在執勤的狀況、過去工作的狀況，是一個齊頭式的調整，這符合現行條文的立法原意嗎？"],["張署長榮興：因為退休的所得替代率不同……"],["蘇委員巧慧：我覺得這一題也許應該由次長來回答一下，就是第三十五條的原條文和現在增加的這個部分。"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁現職人員的照顧、因公受傷還有因為特殊原因領有勳章，對他必須要加發退休金的照顧，我們都有做。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對。"],["馬次長士元：這個部分是以照顧現職為主，對於退休同仁的照顧，我們就回歸到現行的退撫法規，即便是回歸到退撫法規的照顧，警察同仁因為基數比較高……"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊！"],["馬次長士元：所以每個月還會比同階級的公務人員有多一萬塊以上的退休金。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好的，謝謝次長，你的說明比我的更詳盡，但我現在的問題是，如果我們今天這個新的條文通過，變成是一個齊頭式的拉平，會不會對現行的立法設計有所影響？我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的地方。其實過去我們對警察、消防的權益做了非常多的調整，這是我們對警察、對消防人員最大的感謝，希望在這個感謝之餘，整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性，也懇請大家共同來考慮和維護，畢竟國家是大家的、社會是大家的，謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請謝龍介委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 507.167, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 507.167, \"end\": 507.347, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 507.347, \"end\": 507.648, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 507.648, \"end\": 507.768, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 507.768, \"end\": 507.928, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 507.928, \"end\": 508.148, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 508.148, \"end\": 508.168, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,704 --> 00:00:14,650\n好謝謝主席我們請內政部馬司長還有我們警政署張署長張署長麻煩\n\n2\n00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:41,105\n好謝謝我先請署長先回答一下署長我剛剛聽到您在回答中委員的時候跟我一樣我想從這個新聞事件來先跟您做切入新聞確實是在5月6號的時候我們看到了媒體報導說這個彰化吶2700多人裡面吶爆發了今年要申請退休的要達555人那27多的555這樣算起來是幾成吶\n\n3\n00:00:47,438 --> 00:00:49,839\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n\n4\n00:01:15,430 --> 00:01:34,838\n或因年金改革所致。」來我們給你看這樣的一個那我給署長齁你看一下這幾年退休的這個人數署長你從彰化的這個真的有退休潮嗎你先回答我彰化真的有退休潮嗎國內國內真的有警戒的退休潮嗎\n\n5\n00:01:35,919 --> 00:01:52,042\n那跟委員報告這個因為各縣市都不一所以也不見得說是像彰化這樣的報導的退休潮只是他登記要退休但是實際退休不會有那麼多人登記要退休的意義是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:52,603 --> 00:01:52,743\n二）委員\n\n7\n00:02:11,132 --> 00:02:35,040\n所以這個要不要意願跟是不是申請其實有很大的差距所以兩個意義兩個意義就是你登記想而已但是你到實際到要退的時候沒退想的話每個人也都想要退休啊老實講我們工作一輩子就不就是為了要有退休的時候要有好的生活而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力嘛這就是我們在努力的目標來你看喔現在我這邊列舉了從2015年到2021年\n\n8\n00:02:39,702 --> 00:02:39,983\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n\n9\n00:02:55,063 --> 00:03:13,425\n有這樣有因為年金改革之後退休人數有大量的提早嗎其實大量的增加嗎其實沒有啊退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提大家拼命的還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎老師講看起來也不像啊反而減少\n\n10\n00:03:14,426 --> 00:03:16,308\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會等19人擬具\n\n11\n00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:58,267\n報道利用網路上面什麼Dcard說有一個空軍的非官邪匿名信我寧願這個損失三百萬年薪我也一定要走人最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛認知作戰嘛根本就沒有這個人所以我是覺得警察警政署看到這一類的新聞的時候其實你們也應該跟空軍一樣要能夠儘快的有正確的消息要申請我們尊重大家的退職的意願\n\n12\n00:03:59,167 --> 00:04:12,980\n但如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵導致我們的警察軍心會有這個渙散或者是有別的想法我覺得這個警戒要儘速澄清署長你同意吧同意\n\n13\n00:04:15,082 --> 00:04:30,470\n我們繼續來看說實在今天在討論的其實是跟我們過去的年金改革有大量的關係我們過去的年金改革不但是希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活但是對年輕世代也是一種公平世代正義的進行所以它不是針對特定職業或個人是大家每一個面向每一個職業要一起來看的\n\n14\n00:04:39,915 --> 00:05:04,199\n那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看會不會對其他的職業有所影響我當然非常尊敬警察我也覺得應該保障警察我每次去警友會去警察的活動的時候我都告訴他們說如果任何警察有需要的部分只要能夠維護社會的秩序因為現在說實在的最忙台灣最忙的就是三種職業啦我認為是什麼台灣最忙三種職業\n\n15\n00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:18,037\n小學老師小七店員還有警察說真的真的是包山包海所以警察照顧了我們我們當然應該照顧他啊對不對要權給權要錢給錢要人給人嘛可是針對退休金退休諷等等的這個確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的橫平性這也是一個不得不然歸了公平的狀況那今天啦我們直接就法條來看的話來\n\n16\n00:05:38,651 --> 00:05:51,707\n這個法條今天要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條所以你可不可以告訴我們現在設計的三款他是有什麼樣的意義你現在我們今天原來原條文的三款\n\n17\n00:05:54,133 --> 00:06:19,511\n維老降你退休降低退休的年齡所以如果依照著現行原條文的三款他其實是對於辛苦的對於在執勤中受傷的對於有功的他其實對他的退休代等於是有一個差別在內以對於你過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞\n\n18\n00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:28,025\n感謝肯定的意涵在內。」我可以這樣認為嗎?三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計,會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:32,541 --> 00:06:40,987\n以表彰他對這個工作上面的他會是提早退休而已他會是提早退休嘛對不對好所以在這樣的狀況下老實說啦如果我們今天再加上新的條文讓所有的警察不分你在執行的狀況你過去工作的狀況是一個齊頭式的調整這符合現行條文的立法人意嗎\n\n20\n00:06:58,603 --> 00:07:21,056\n一個因為退休的所得替代力不同我覺得這題也許應該次長來回答一下啦次長跟委員報告三十五條的原條文和現在增加了這個的部分的話我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁在限職的部分的照顧跟因公還有這個所謂的因為特殊原因或領有勳章他必須要\n\n21\n00:07:21,636 --> 00:07:25,139\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n22\n00:07:49,139 --> 00:08:02,140\n我現在的問題就是如果我們今天有新的條文這樣過去變成是一個齊頭式的拉平會不會對現行的立法設計會有所影響我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的啦好那今天\n\n23\n00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:28,168\n我實在是覺得過去最後一張啦過去我們在對警察消防的權益其實做了非常非常多的調整這是我們對警察對消防人員最大的感謝那我們希望在這個感謝之餘整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性也懇請大家可以共同來考慮和維護畢竟國家是大家的社會是大家的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9704\t14650\t好謝謝主席我們請內政部馬司長還有我們警政署張署長張署長麻煩\n19110\t41105\t好 謝謝我先請署長先回答一下署長我剛剛聽到您在回答中委員的時候跟我一樣我想從這個新聞事件來先跟您做切入新聞確實是在5月6號的時候我們看到了媒體報導說這個彰化吶2700多人裡面吶爆發了今年要申請退休的要達555人那27多的555這樣算起來是幾成吶\n47438\t49839\t二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n75430\t94838\t或因年金改革所致。」來我們給你看這樣的一個那我給署長齁你看一下這幾年退休的這個人數署長你從彰化的這個真的有退休潮嗎你先回答我彰化真的有退休潮嗎國內國內真的有警戒的退休潮嗎\n95919\t112042\t那跟委員報告這個因為各縣市都不一所以也不見得說是像彰化這樣的報導的退休潮只是他登記要退休但是實際退休不會有那麼多人登記要退休的意義是什麼\n112603\t112743\t二）委員\n131132\t155040\t所以這個要不要意願跟是不是申請其實有很大的差距所以兩個意義兩個意義就是你登記想而已但是你到實際到要退的時候沒退想的話每個人也都想要退休啊老實講我們工作一輩子就不就是為了要有退休的時候要有好的生活而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力嘛這就是我們在努力的目標來你看喔現在我這邊列舉了從2015年到2021年\n159702\t159983\t二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n175063\t193425\t有這樣有因為年金改革之後退休人數有大量的提早嗎其實大量的增加嗎其實沒有啊退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提大家拼命的還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎老師講看起來也不像啊反而減少\n194426\t196308\t條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會等19人擬具\n209960\t238267\t報道利用網路上面什麼Dcard說有一個空軍的非官邪匿名信我寧願這個損失三百萬年薪我也一定要走人最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛認知作戰嘛根本就沒有這個人所以我是覺得警察警政署看到這一類的新聞的時候其實你們也應該跟空軍一樣要能夠儘快的有正確的消息要申請我們尊重大家的退職的意願\n239167\t252980\t但如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵導致我們的警察軍心會有這個渙散或者是有別的想法我覺得這個警戒要儘速澄清 署長你同意吧 同意\n255082\t270470\t我們繼續來看說實在今天在討論的其實是跟我們過去的年金改革有大量的關係我們過去的年金改革不但是希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活但是對年輕世代也是一種公平世代正義的進行所以它不是針對特定職業或個人是大家每一個面向每一個職業要一起來看的\n279915\t304199\t那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看會不會對其他的職業有所影響我當然非常尊敬警察我也覺得應該保障警察我每次去警友會去警察的活動的時候我都告訴他們說如果任何警察有需要的部分只要能夠維護社會的秩序因為現在說實在的最忙台灣最忙的就是三種職業啦我認為是什麼台灣最忙三種職業\n308550\t318037\t小學老師小七店員還有警察說真的真的是包山包海所以警察照顧了我們我們當然應該照顧他啊對不對要權給權要錢給錢要人給人嘛可是針對退休金退休諷等等的這個確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的橫平性這也是一個不得不然歸了公平的狀況那今天啦我們直接就法條來看的話來\n338651\t351707\t這個法條今天要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條所以你可不可以告訴我們現在設計的三款他是有什麼樣的意義你現在我們今天原來原條文的三款\n354133\t379511\t維老降你退休降低退休的年齡所以如果依照著現行原條文的三款他其實是對於辛苦的對於在執勤中受傷的對於有功的他其實對他的退休代等於是有一個差別在內以對於你過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞\n381519\t388025\t感謝肯定的意涵在內。」我可以這樣認為嗎?三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計,會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的嗎?\n392541\t400987\t以表彰他對這個工作上面的他會是提早退休而已他會是提早退休嘛對不對好所以在這樣的狀況下老實說啦如果我們今天再加上新的條文讓所有的警察不分你在執行的狀況你過去工作的狀況是一個齊頭式的調整這符合現行條文的立法人意嗎\n418603\t441056\t一個因為退休的所得替代力不同我覺得這題也許應該次長來回答一下啦次長跟委員報告三十五條的原條文和現在增加了這個的部分的話我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁在限職的部分的照顧跟因公還有這個所謂的因為特殊原因或領有勳章他必須要\n441636\t445139\t條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n469139\t482140\t我現在的問題就是如果我們今天有新的條文這樣過去變成是一個齊頭式的拉平會不會對現行的立法設計會有所影響我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的啦好那今天\n483240\t508168\t我實在是覺得過去最後一張啦過去我們在對警察消防的權益其實做了非常非常多的調整這是我們對警察對消防人員最大的感謝那我們希望在這個感謝之餘整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性也懇請大家可以共同來考慮和維護畢竟國家是大家的社會是大家的謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請內政部馬司長還有我們警政署張署長張署長麻煩\n好 謝謝我先請署長先回答一下署長我剛剛聽到您在回答中委員的時候跟我一樣我想從這個新聞事件來先跟您做切入新聞確實是在5月6號的時候我們看到了媒體報導說這個彰化吶2700多人裡面吶爆發了今年要申請退休的要達555人那27多的555這樣算起來是幾成吶\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n或因年金改革所致。」來我們給你看這樣的一個那我給署長齁你看一下這幾年退休的這個人數署長你從彰化的這個真的有退休潮嗎你先回答我彰化真的有退休潮嗎國內國內真的有警戒的退休潮嗎\n那跟委員報告這個因為各縣市都不一所以也不見得說是像彰化這樣的報導的退休潮只是他登記要退休但是實際退休不會有那麼多人登記要退休的意義是什麼\n二）委員\n所以這個要不要意願跟是不是申請其實有很大的差距所以兩個意義兩個意義就是你登記想而已但是你到實際到要退的時候沒退想的話每個人也都想要退休啊老實講我們工作一輩子就不就是為了要有退休的時候要有好的生活而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力嘛這就是我們在努力的目標來你看喔現在我這邊列舉了從2015年到2021年\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n有這樣有因為年金改革之後退休人數有大量的提早嗎其實大量的增加嗎其實沒有啊退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提大家拼命的還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎老師講看起來也不像啊反而減少\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會等19人擬具\n報道利用網路上面什麼Dcard說有一個空軍的非官邪匿名信我寧願這個損失三百萬年薪我也一定要走人最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛認知作戰嘛根本就沒有這個人所以我是覺得警察警政署看到這一類的新聞的時候其實你們也應該跟空軍一樣要能夠儘快的有正確的消息要申請我們尊重大家的退職的意願\n但如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵導致我們的警察軍心會有這個渙散或者是有別的想法我覺得這個警戒要儘速澄清 署長你同意吧 同意\n我們繼續來看說實在今天在討論的其實是跟我們過去的年金改革有大量的關係我們過去的年金改革不但是希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活但是對年輕世代也是一種公平世代正義的進行所以它不是針對特定職業或個人是大家每一個面向每一個職業要一起來看的\n那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看會不會對其他的職業有所影響我當然非常尊敬警察我也覺得應該保障警察我每次去警友會去警察的活動的時候我都告訴他們說如果任何警察有需要的部分只要能夠維護社會的秩序因為現在說實在的最忙台灣最忙的就是三種職業啦我認為是什麼台灣最忙三種職業\n小學老師小七店員還有警察說真的真的是包山包海所以警察照顧了我們我們當然應該照顧他啊對不對要權給權要錢給錢要人給人嘛可是針對退休金退休諷等等的這個確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的橫平性這也是一個不得不然歸了公平的狀況那今天啦我們直接就法條來看的話來\n這個法條今天要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條所以你可不可以告訴我們現在設計的三款他是有什麼樣的意義你現在我們今天原來原條文的三款\n維老降你退休降低退休的年齡所以如果依照著現行原條文的三款他其實是對於辛苦的對於在執勤中受傷的對於有功的他其實對他的退休代等於是有一個差別在內以對於你過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞\n感謝肯定的意涵在內。」我可以這樣認為嗎?三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計,會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的嗎?\n以表彰他對這個工作上面的他會是提早退休而已他會是提早退休嘛對不對好所以在這樣的狀況下老實說啦如果我們今天再加上新的條文讓所有的警察不分你在執行的狀況你過去工作的狀況是一個齊頭式的調整這符合現行條文的立法人意嗎\n一個因為退休的所得替代力不同我覺得這題也許應該次長來回答一下啦次長跟委員報告三十五條的原條文和現在增加了這個的部分的話我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁在限職的部分的照顧跟因公還有這個所謂的因為特殊原因或領有勳章他必須要\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n我現在的問題就是如果我們今天有新的條文這樣過去變成是一個齊頭式的拉平會不會對現行的立法設計會有所影響我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的啦好那今天\n我實在是覺得過去最後一張啦過去我們在對警察消防的權益其實做了非常非常多的調整這是我們對警察對消防人員最大的感謝那我們希望在這個感謝之餘整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性也懇請大家可以共同來考慮和維護畢竟國家是大家的社會是大家的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.704 --> 00:14.650\n好謝謝主席我們請內政部馬司長還有我們警政署張署長張署長麻煩\n\n00:19.110 --> 00:41.105\n好謝謝我先請署長先回答一下署長我剛剛聽到您在回答中委員的時候跟我一樣我想從這個新聞事件來先跟您做切入新聞確實是在5月6號的時候我們看到了媒體報導說這個彰化吶2700多人裡面吶爆發了今年要申請退休的要達555人那27多的555這樣算起來是幾成吶\n\n00:47.438 --> 00:49.839\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n\n01:15.430 --> 01:34.838\n或因年金改革所致。」來我們給你看這樣的一個那我給署長齁你看一下這幾年退休的這個人數署長你從彰化的這個真的有退休潮嗎你先回答我彰化真的有退休潮嗎國內國內真的有警戒的退休潮嗎\n\n01:35.919 --> 01:52.042\n那跟委員報告這個因為各縣市都不一所以也不見得說是像彰化這樣的報導的退休潮只是他登記要退休但是實際退休不會有那麼多人登記要退休的意義是什麼\n\n01:52.603 --> 01:52.743\n二）委員\n\n02:11.132 --> 02:35.040\n所以這個要不要意願跟是不是申請其實有很大的差距所以兩個意義兩個意義就是你登記想而已但是你到實際到要退的時候沒退想的話每個人也都想要退休啊老實講我們工作一輩子就不就是為了要有退休的時候要有好的生活而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力嘛這就是我們在努力的目標來你看喔現在我這邊列舉了從2015年到2021年\n\n02:39.702 --> 02:39.983\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具\n\n02:55.063 --> 03:13.425\n有這樣有因為年金改革之後退休人數有大量的提早嗎其實大量的增加嗎其實沒有啊退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提大家拼命的還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎老師講看起來也不像啊反而減少\n\n03:14.426 --> 03:16.308\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會等19人擬具\n\n03:29.960 --> 03:58.267\n報道利用網路上面什麼Dcard說有一個空軍的非官邪匿名信我寧願這個損失三百萬年薪我也一定要走人最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛認知作戰嘛根本就沒有這個人所以我是覺得警察警政署看到這一類的新聞的時候其實你們也應該跟空軍一樣要能夠儘快的有正確的消息要申請我們尊重大家的退職的意願\n\n03:59.167 --> 04:12.980\n但如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵導致我們的警察軍心會有這個渙散或者是有別的想法我覺得這個警戒要儘速澄清署長你同意吧同意\n\n04:15.082 --> 04:30.470\n我們繼續來看說實在今天在討論的其實是跟我們過去的年金改革有大量的關係我們過去的年金改革不但是希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活但是對年輕世代也是一種公平世代正義的進行所以它不是針對特定職業或個人是大家每一個面向每一個職業要一起來看的\n\n04:39.915 --> 05:04.199\n那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看會不會對其他的職業有所影響我當然非常尊敬警察我也覺得應該保障警察我每次去警友會去警察的活動的時候我都告訴他們說如果任何警察有需要的部分只要能夠維護社會的秩序因為現在說實在的最忙台灣最忙的就是三種職業啦我認為是什麼台灣最忙三種職業\n\n05:08.550 --> 05:18.037\n小學老師小七店員還有警察說真的真的是包山包海所以警察照顧了我們我們當然應該照顧他啊對不對要權給權要錢給錢要人給人嘛可是針對退休金退休諷等等的這個確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的橫平性這也是一個不得不然歸了公平的狀況那今天啦我們直接就法條來看的話來\n\n05:38.651 --> 05:51.707\n這個法條今天要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條所以你可不可以告訴我們現在設計的三款他是有什麼樣的意義你現在我們今天原來原條文的三款\n\n05:54.133 --> 06:19.511\n維老降你退休降低退休的年齡所以如果依照著現行原條文的三款他其實是對於辛苦的對於在執勤中受傷的對於有功的他其實對他的退休代等於是有一個差別在內以對於你過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞\n\n06:21.519 --> 06:28.025\n感謝肯定的意涵在內。」我可以這樣認為嗎?三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計,會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的嗎?\n\n06:32.541 --> 06:40.987\n以表彰他對這個工作上面的他會是提早退休而已他會是提早退休嘛對不對好所以在這樣的狀況下老實說啦如果我們今天再加上新的條文讓所有的警察不分你在執行的狀況你過去工作的狀況是一個齊頭式的調整這符合現行條文的立法人意嗎\n\n06:58.603 --> 07:21.056\n一個因為退休的所得替代力不同我覺得這題也許應該次長來回答一下啦次長跟委員報告三十五條的原條文和現在增加了這個的部分的話我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁在限職的部分的照顧跟因公還有這個所謂的因為特殊原因或領有勳章他必須要\n\n07:21.636 --> 07:25.139\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n07:49.139 --> 08:02.140\n我現在的問題就是如果我們今天有新的條文這樣過去變成是一個齊頭式的拉平會不會對現行的立法設計會有所影響我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的啦好那今天\n\n08:03.240 --> 08:28.168\n我實在是覺得過去最後一張啦過去我們在對警察消防的權益其實做了非常非常多的調整這是我們對警察對消防人員最大的感謝那我們希望在這個感謝之餘整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性也懇請大家可以共同來考慮和維護畢竟國家是大家的社會是大家的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.704,"end":14.65,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請內政部馬司長還有我們警政署張署長張署長麻煩"},{"start":19.11,"end":41.105,"text":"好 謝謝我先請署長先回答一下署長我剛剛聽到您在回答中委員的時候跟我一樣我想從這個新聞事件來先跟您做切入新聞確實是在5月6號的時候我們看到了媒體報導說這個彰化吶2700多人裡面吶爆發了今年要申請退休的要達555人那27多的555這樣算起來是幾成吶"},{"start":47.438,"end":49.839,"text":"二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員"},{"start":75.43,"end":94.838,"text":"或因年金改革所致。」來我們給你看這樣的一個那我給署長齁你看一下這幾年退休的這個人數署長你從彰化的這個真的有退休潮嗎你先回答我彰化真的有退休潮嗎國內國內真的有警戒的退休潮嗎"},{"start":95.919,"end":112.042,"text":"那跟委員報告這個因為各縣市都不一所以也不見得說是像彰化這樣的報導的退休潮只是他登記要退休但是實際退休不會有那麼多人登記要退休的意義是什麼"},{"start":112.603,"end":112.743,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":131.132,"end":155.04,"text":"所以這個要不要意願跟是不是申請其實有很大的差距所以兩個意義兩個意義就是你登記想而已但是你到實際到要退的時候沒退想的話每個人也都想要退休啊老實講我們工作一輩子就不就是為了要有退休的時候要有好的生活而政府也應該為了保障國民有好的退休生活而努力嘛這就是我們在努力的目標來你看喔現在我這邊列舉了從2015年到2021年"},{"start":159.702,"end":159.983,"text":"二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具"},{"start":175.063,"end":193.425,"text":"有這樣有因為年金改革之後退休人數有大量的提早嗎其實大量的增加嗎其實沒有啊退休年齡有因此而開始往前一直提大家拼命的還沒有到退休年齡或一到退休年齡就馬上要走人嗎老師講看起來也不像啊反而減少"},{"start":194.426,"end":196.308,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會等19人擬具"},{"start":209.96,"end":238.267,"text":"報道利用網路上面什麼Dcard說有一個空軍的非官邪匿名信我寧願這個損失三百萬年薪我也一定要走人最後空軍還出來說這就是謠言嘛認知作戰嘛根本就沒有這個人所以我是覺得警察警政署看到這一類的新聞的時候其實你們也應該跟空軍一樣要能夠儘快的有正確的消息要申請我們尊重大家的退職的意願"},{"start":239.167,"end":252.98,"text":"但如果這個意願被加上其他的意涵導致我們的警察軍心會有這個渙散或者是有別的想法我覺得這個警戒要儘速澄清 署長你同意吧 同意"},{"start":255.082,"end":270.47,"text":"我們繼續來看說實在今天在討論的其實是跟我們過去的年金改革有大量的關係我們過去的年金改革不但是希望還是能夠保障退休人員的生活但是對年輕世代也是一種公平世代正義的進行所以它不是針對特定職業或個人是大家每一個面向每一個職業要一起來看的"},{"start":279.915,"end":304.199,"text":"那我們今天單獨抽出警察的這個部分來看會不會對其他的職業有所影響我當然非常尊敬警察我也覺得應該保障警察我每次去警友會去警察的活動的時候我都告訴他們說如果任何警察有需要的部分只要能夠維護社會的秩序因為現在說實在的最忙台灣最忙的就是三種職業啦我認為是什麼台灣最忙三種職業"},{"start":308.55,"end":318.037,"text":"小學老師小七店員還有警察說真的真的是包山包海所以警察照顧了我們我們當然應該照顧他啊對不對要權給權要錢給錢要人給人嘛可是針對退休金退休諷等等的這個確實應該要考量到整個世代的差異還有各個職業的橫平性這也是一個不得不然歸了公平的狀況那今天啦我們直接就法條來看的話來"},{"start":338.651,"end":351.707,"text":"這個法條今天要修的是警察人員人事條例第三十五條所以你可不可以告訴我們現在設計的三款他是有什麼樣的意義你現在我們今天原來原條文的三款"},{"start":354.133,"end":379.511,"text":"維老降你退休降低退休的年齡所以如果依照著現行原條文的三款他其實是對於辛苦的對於在執勤中受傷的對於有功的他其實對他的退休代等於是有一個差別在內以對於你過去這一輩子的工作有不同的獎賞"},{"start":381.519,"end":388.025,"text":"感謝肯定的意涵在內。」我可以這樣認為嗎?三十五條的原條文是有這樣的設計,會讓我們的退休不是齊頭式的嗎?"},{"start":392.541,"end":400.987,"text":"以表彰他對這個工作上面的他會是提早退休而已他會是提早退休嘛對不對好所以在這樣的狀況下老實說啦如果我們今天再加上新的條文讓所有的警察不分你在執行的狀況你過去工作的狀況是一個齊頭式的調整這符合現行條文的立法人意嗎"},{"start":418.603,"end":441.056,"text":"一個因為退休的所得替代力不同我覺得這題也許應該次長來回答一下啦次長跟委員報告三十五條的原條文和現在增加了這個的部分的話我們對於警察同仁或消防同仁在限職的部分的照顧跟因公還有這個所謂的因為特殊原因或領有勳章他必須要"},{"start":441.636,"end":445.139,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議"},{"start":469.139,"end":482.14,"text":"我現在的問題就是如果我們今天有新的條文這樣過去變成是一個齊頭式的拉平會不會對現行的立法設計會有所影響我覺得這也是大家應該要思考的啦好那今天"},{"start":483.24,"end":508.168,"text":"我實在是覺得過去最後一張啦過去我們在對警察消防的權益其實做了非常非常多的調整這是我們對警察對消防人員最大的感謝那我們希望在這個感謝之餘整個社會的公平性和世代的正義性也懇請大家可以共同來考慮和維護畢竟國家是大家的社會是大家的謝謝"}]}}}}