{"id":153935,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153935","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba014d9e1788bc66323560592432c08898eae5baf1b56d477347928a3d90b696a425ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"10:08:14 - 10:25:33","影片長度":"00:17:19","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T10:08:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T10:25:33+08:00","duration":1039,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":692,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時8分）謝謝主席，有請曾主委。"],["主席：有請曾主委。"],["高金委員素梅：曾主委，因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過，今天是你的補考，希望你好好的表現。另外，我要再請陳副主計長。"],["主席：有請陳副主計長。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，這裡提醒你，上次您知道您的業務範圍，就是爭取預算、修法立法，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：現在我跟陳副主計長在這邊對話，請你好好聽一下。陳副主計長，我要請問你，有新制定的法案或者是修正的法案，政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算，對不對？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，就是說我們預算……"],["高金委員素梅：你不要講那麼多，就針對我問的問題回答是或不是？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：就是公布生效後……"],["高金委員素梅：就是立法院的法案通過的時候，是不是依據法案的內容，你們要增加預算？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們就依據那個來編列預算。"],["高金委員素梅：對吧！好，我再給你一個案例好了，為了因應100年12月2號老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條及第六條的修正草案，還有國民年金法增訂第五十四條之一條文修正草案，在立法院也三讀通過了，因為它的預算增加，所以行政院立刻就提出預算修正案送到立法院審議，甚至還說如果預算仍然不足，就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應，增加了多少呢？增加了163.57億，聽清楚了，對吧？請問副主計長，這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後增加預算的案例？而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出，因為這幾個案子都有提出，只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理，對嗎？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：跟委員報告，就是說101年那個階段，它是透過立法院朝野協商的結論，先有一個通案刪減，然後……"],["高金委員素梅：好，那麼請你告訴我，現在的禁伐補償也是立法院修法通過的啊！"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼……"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們現在這個階段跟當時不太一樣。"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼不太一樣？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們現在行政院處於還在籌編預算的階段。"],["高金委員素梅：對，現在接著下來我就要跟你講這些問題，所以你不要告訴我在立法院通過的法案，你們不可以來挪用，就是我在總質詢的時候說，你們現在中央總預算總共有3兆2,000億，對不對？原民會現在也正在籌編預算給你們，被匡列預算是125億嘛！針對柯建銘說，他要要求原民會自己在他們的預算裡面去挪用，其實他是逾越了行政院的權限，所以請曾主委聽好，謝謝副主計長！我們來看一下，副主計長，你的答詢再更簡單一下，因應法律案的通過所以增加相關的預算，這是一個常態，不會不是常態嘛！這也是一個法律義務嘛，對不對？所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加的預算總共是163.57億，可是我們現在回頭來看一下，禁伐補償才只有26億。好，原民會主委，還有主計室簡主任，請副主計長到旁邊。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：不好意思！我還是可以補充說明，就是我們針對法案通過的那個項目，我們一定會編預算。"],["高金委員素梅：我知道、我知道編預算，到底要怎麼做？你們不知道嘛！"],["陳副主計長慧娟：但是會不會影響其他計畫？目前不確定。"],["高金委員素梅：對吧？"],["陳副主計長慧娟：是。"],["高金委員素梅：對嘛，我剛剛就講了嘛！你們上面那兩個法總共增加163.57億，禁伐補償只有26億，我要跟你講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別，行政院都可以編列，而原民會的26億柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪，你覺得這合理嗎？好，請你休息一下。"],["陳副主計長慧娟：我們……"],["高金委員素梅：請你休息一下，我知道啦！你們必須在3兆2,000億裡面去挪用，我也請行政院長回去要考慮，也是原民會現在的責任了。原民會主委，還有簡主任，你們聽到了沒有？因應法律通過，必須可以增加相關預算，所以我們從最簡單的開始，今年原民會預算多少？"],["曾主任委員智勇：明年是籌編125億。"],["高金委員素梅：好，那麼在籌編25億，中央政府總預算有多少？"],["曾主任委員智勇：剛剛委員講3兆2,000億。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以也就是說，3兆2,000億中央也有增加1成，然後原民會你們也增加1成，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：按照這樣的比例來看嘛！原民會的預算目前125億，5月初你們核定的是125億，但是我知道行政院在5月20號曾經發文要求重新要調整，所以6月20號你們要重新報院，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我現在在籌編的狀態。"],["高金委員素梅：好，在籌編，也就是說有1個月的期間，從5月20日一直到現在？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，是。"],["高金委員素梅：所以預算額度是可以調整的，對不對？所以125億不是最終的額度嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，目前還在籌編。"],["高金委員素梅：好，現在來了，禁伐補償三讀通過，錢是125億，6月4號通過了要增加26億，很簡單，125億加26億等於151億，所以原民會在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我先跟委員報告，我們現在還在籌編當中啦！"],["高金委員素梅：我知道啊！你說是，還是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為現在還在籌編當中。"],["高金委員素梅：那麼是不是？因為立法院三讀通過啦！這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊，所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊！還是你已經說服了行政院長說，在他的3兆元預算裡面去增加？你現在告訴我們。"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個我們會持續來跟院裡面做拜託跟溝通啦！目前的籌編狀態還是在125億這裡。"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，主委，我現在是特別要告訴你，你是原民會的主委，爭取預算是你的工作。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：如果你在6月20號以前，不把25億放在你的預算裡面，那麼你就有本事讓3兆2,000億預算裡面跟中央去算，你有沒有這個本事、能不能答應我？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通，因為希望原住民……"],["高金委員素梅：那麼你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎？你的期望？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我現在僅能就……因為目前禁伐補償增加了3萬塊之後，總的經費會增加到52億啦！"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，我跟你算過了26億啦、增加26億啦！以前的就不要再算，就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，增加26億。"],["高金委員素梅：我現在簡單地告訴你，如果不匡列在你的預算的話，那是你的失職，因為柯總召已經在協商的時候告訴你了，他希望在你的預算裡面編列，如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億元，就是你失職。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我一定會跟會裡面及院裡面持續來溝通、來拜託，對……"],["高金委員素梅：如果沒有的話，你要不要辭職？這26億元預算很重要啊！而且柯總召或者是吳思瑤委員都已經說，會排擠你其他的預算啊！那麼排擠你的預算的話，就是傷害原住民，是你傷害原住民喔！不是行政院長傷害原住民喔！也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔！你要記得這樣子喔！曾主委，你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋，你要去極力爭取，不是柯總召說什麼就什麼，你知道嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，知道。"],["高金委員素梅：我們是立法委員，你是行政官員啦！"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：而且你的前老闆是誰？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我的老闆是老百姓啊！"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，你的前老闆在屏東縣，潘什麼？"],["曾主任委員智勇：他是我以前的縣長。"],["高金委員素梅：對嘛！你是以前的原民處處長，他是你的前老闆嘛，對不對？他現在是誰？賴清德總統旁邊是誰？"],["曾主任委員智勇：總統府秘書長。"],["高金委員素梅：對，所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：所以要跟你的前老闆講，不要傷害原住民，我們只有25億而已，而且這是我們的土地轉型正義，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不會啦！不會傷害原住民。"],["高金委員素梅：請你要做到。好，接著下來的施政重點，再給我一點時間，抱歉！來，行政院5月20號有發文要求各機關，他們的預算施政重點要調整，然後在施政重點當中，原民會要依據憲法法庭判決結果，要儘速完成原住民身分法的修法，好，這是你列為第一項，因為這是總統的政見，那麼請問你要怎麼做？"],["曾主任委員智勇：這個就是我們對於平埔族的認定，我們希望先給他一個民族認定，後面再來認定身分。"],["高金委員素梅：沒有啊！你看一下105年9月27號，當時臺南市的市長，也就是賴清德市長他講，第一個，原住民身分法要增訂定第二條第三款平埔原住民，然後讓平埔族群依法認定身分；第二個，他要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源，並且依據人數要編列預算，設定期程給予應有的權利；第三個，過渡期建議先以民進黨不分區立委席次分配一席給平埔族。請問主委，他現在已經是總統了，然後也列為總統政見，是你第一個要去解決的問題，你已經盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資料嗎？然後相關的資源有哪些？你可不可以簡單講？上一次我就問過你這個問題，今天再讓你補考一次。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，委員我跟你報告……"],["高金委員素梅：應該有什麼它的相關資源？"],["曾主任委員智勇：你講的這個第一點、第二點也並不衝突，沒有錯……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有啦！沒有衝突，這是賴總統講的，他在做臺南市長的時候講的。"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，先認定民族，再認定身分……"],["高金委員素梅：因為他之前是做臺南市長，現在已經是總統了嘛！所以我把他的三項講話告訴你，沒有衝突，我也沒有多加，這是他講的話，所以他要你盤點相關的基礎資源，然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道？因為你要去落實它呀！"],["曾主任委員智勇：我知道，就是說……"],["高金委員素梅：有哪些？"],["曾主任委員智勇：第一、二項這個我們不談，就是一樣在做，第三項目前是還沒有啦！"],["高金委員素梅：對。"],["曾主任委員智勇：第三還沒有，那麼你說……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有啦！相關資源、相關資源是第二點，即刻盤點平埔族群相關基礎資源，主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：我上次已經問過你了，好了，你不要浪費我的時間，預算經費要不要有？社會福利教育資源要不要有？傳統領域土地要不要有？如果按照這樣子來講的話，你113年預算來算的話只有110億，當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬，如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是1萬8,675塊。2022年原民會統計，平埔族的人數大概是98萬人，如果以113年110億的預算來算的話，你們總共要增加183億。請問一下，現在行政院連26億都不要編了，183億會編嗎？你要怎麼編？"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為平埔族身分認定是到明年10月27，有了身分之後我們……"],["高金委員素梅：所以我現在告訴你，你要預告我們怎麼弄啊！你不能這些東西出來才要去想！主委。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，第一個，到底最後來登記的平埔族是多少人……"],["高金委員素梅：你要預估，現在原民會給我的數字是98萬人，你為什麼還要讓他們來登記？主委，你今天到底有沒有準備好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：98……"],["高金委員素梅：好，我再問你另外的問題，要增加183億，你現在告訴我平埔族人是98萬人，你想好要怎麼編列了嗎？有還是沒有？會不會排擠以後原住民法定的這些預算？"],["曾主任委員智勇：會。"],["高金委員素梅：好，大家聽好了，會。"],["曾主任委員智勇：會排擠。"],["高金委員素梅：如果這些人……會排擠就表示原民會爭取預算不利，不願意讓行政院多出183億，要在原民會的預算裡面排擠，大家聽好了。第二，土地的部分，平埔族群一定會有傳統領域，他們也必須增劃編原保地。目前原住民的原保地有26萬公頃，為了平埔族群我們要增加多少，你知道嗎？你不知道，是40到50萬公頃，你要怎麼處理？你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理，但是你要想好怎麼處理，不要浪費時間，沒有時間了。","再來，主委有沒有考慮到參政權要怎麼處理？雖然賴清德說民進黨的不分區要放一席，這個不會影響到全體的參政權，他要放在山原還是平原？還是有其他的方案？還是什麼？有沒有講好？有沒有想好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：立法委員的部分要修憲；議員的部分地方制度法就可以了。"],["高金委員素梅：你能不能完整地講？如果修憲會不會是一個很大的方向？他為什麼要修憲？他是放在平地原住民還是山地原住民？"],["曾主任委員智勇：因為第三類的原住民，山地原住民、平地原住民，還有一個……"],["高金委員素梅：請旁邊的人不要給他打pass，他今天是來考試的。"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是，平埔的原住民不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起，他是另外……"],["高金委員素梅：好，講得很好，答案講清楚一下，平埔族是另外，另列平埔族，他不會在平原跟山原裡面，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：也就是說，平埔族會有三席的立委，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是。"],["高金委員素梅：那是怎樣？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：請旁邊的人不要回答。"],["曾主任委員智勇：立法委員的席次一定要修憲才有辦法。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我也知道修憲，所以這件事情原民會提出法案，最終要修憲，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝你。然後議員呢？代表呢？你討論過，想到這些……"],["曾主任委員智勇：議員修法就可以了，不是修憲。"],["高金委員素梅：好，你有沒有跟地方政府討論過？你知道我們修地制法的時候多辛苦嗎？只是增加議員跟代表的席次，在這裡立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗，你要如何落實賴總統的政見？不是一個原民會說要修法就可以，你真的已經準備好了嗎？主委，你真的沒有準備好，今天我問你簡單的問題，你都還搞不太清楚。時間到了，你看到了沒有，我才問你幾個問題？兩個問題，一個是禁伐補償，一個是你剛剛說要落實原住民，更不要談教育。","我要提一下，你說的教育裡面還沒有講賴總統的雙軌制度，什麼是雙軌制度，你沒有講清楚。你今天提的書面報告都是九年前本席在教育及文化委員會跟原民會教育處整合的平臺，你知道嗎？你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告裡面。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我有報告，剛剛的報告就是先定雙軌制……"],["高金委員素梅：什麼叫雙軌？"],["曾主任委員智勇：雙軌就是族語跟一般的教育……"],["高金委員素梅：你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：現在有。"],["高金委員素梅：有幾所？"],["曾主任委員智勇：現在民族教育還在做，還沒有到，大概只有到七年級，像一些……"],["高金委員素梅：有幾所？"],["曾主任委員智勇：還在實驗當中。"],["高金委員素梅：對，是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["高金委員素梅：你要怎麼實踐？你今天沒有講。"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們目前先把基礎打好。"],["高金委員素梅：基礎是我們幫你打好的，是高金素梅在九年當中跟原民會前面的主委做的，但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西，我還是沒有看到。主委，回去再準備一下，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝你。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝高金召委的質詢。"],["主席（高金委員素梅）：好，謝謝牛煦庭委員擔任召委。","繼續請黃仁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":460,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-24","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃仁","黃捷","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","盧縣一","黃建賓","丁學忠","莊瑞雄"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住\n民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原\n住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推\n動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政\n部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136101_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"153935","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153935","tool":"pyannote","id":"153935-pyannote"},"job_id":"XJszaqfKgG6IMDHC","queued_at":"2024-06-13 13:15:38","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-13 13:16:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153935"},{"time":"2024-06-13 13:16:25","msg":"downloading 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\"請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 268.005, \"end\": 268.205, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"休\", \"start\": 268.205, \"end\": 268.505, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 268.505, \"end\": 268.665, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 268.665, \"end\": 268.785, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 268.785, \"end\": 268.985, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 268.985, \"end\": 269.186, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 269.186, \"end\": 269.346, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 269.346, \"end\": 269.506, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 269.506, \"end\": 269.646, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 269.646, \"end\": 269.906, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 269.906, \"end\": 270.367, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": 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\"請\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 273.929, \"end\": 274.07, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 274.07, \"end\": 274.23, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 274.23, \"end\": 274.57, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 274.57, \"end\": 274.77, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 274.77, \"end\": 274.91, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 274.91, \"end\": 275.09, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 275.09, \"end\": 275.451, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 275.451, \"end\": 275.591, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 275.591, \"end\": 275.711, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 275.711, \"end\": 275.851, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 275.851, \"end\": 276.371, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 276.371, \"end\": 276.512, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 276.512, \"end\": 276.652, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 276.652, \"end\": 276.992, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 276.992, \"end\": 277.212, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 277.212, \"end\": 278.553, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 278.553, \"end\": 278.653, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 278.653, \"end\": 279.014, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 279.014, \"end\": 279.194, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 279.194, \"end\": 279.494, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 279.494, \"end\": 279.874, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 279.874, \"end\": 280.014, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 280.014, \"end\": 280.194, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 280.194, \"end\": 280.615, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 280.615, \"end\": 280.755, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 280.755, \"end\": 280.855, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 280.855, \"end\": 281.035, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 281.035, \"end\": 281.676, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 281.676, \"end\": 282.236, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 282.236, \"end\": 282.396, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 282.396, \"end\": 282.596, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 282.596, \"end\": 283.117, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 283.117, \"end\": 283.377, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 283.377, \"end\": 283.938, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 283.938, \"end\": 284.098, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 284.098, \"end\": 284.278, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 284.278, \"end\": 284.438, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 284.438, \"end\": 284.638, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 284.638, \"end\": 285.279, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 285.279, \"end\": 285.939, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 285.939, \"end\": 286.039, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 286.039, \"end\": 286.099, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 286.099, \"end\": 286.54, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 286.54, \"end\": 287.0, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 287.0, \"end\": 287.38, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 287.38, \"end\": 287.6, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 287.6, \"end\": 287.761, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 287.761, \"end\": 287.901, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 287.901, \"end\": 288.041, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 288.041, \"end\": 288.581, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 288.581, \"end\": 288.761, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 288.761, \"end\": 288.962, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 288.962, \"end\": 288.982, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 289.98, \"end\": 300.086, \"text\": \"明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 289.98, \"end\": 290.24, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 290.24, \"end\": 290.54, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 290.54, \"end\": 292.962, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 292.962, \"end\": 293.902, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 293.902, \"end\": 294.343, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 294.343, \"end\": 295.623, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 295.623, \"end\": 295.744, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 295.744, \"end\": 295.924, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 295.924, \"end\": 296.164, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 296.164, \"end\": 296.724, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 296.724, \"end\": 296.884, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 296.884, \"end\": 297.004, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 297.004, \"end\": 297.204, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 297.204, \"end\": 299.166, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 299.166, \"end\": 299.406, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 299.406, \"end\": 299.606, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 299.606, \"end\": 299.886, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 299.886, \"end\": 300.066, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 300.066, \"end\": 300.086, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 302.023, \"end\": 326.101, \"text\": \"所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 302.023, \"end\": 302.203, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 302.203, \"end\": 302.363, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 302.363, \"end\": 302.543, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 302.543, \"end\": 302.684, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 302.684, \"end\": 303.444, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 303.444, \"end\": 303.644, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"兆\", \"start\": 303.644, \"end\": 304.005, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 304.005, \"end\": 304.705, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 304.705, \"end\": 304.905, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 304.905, \"end\": 305.105, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 305.105, \"end\": 305.225, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 305.225, \"end\": 305.386, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 305.386, \"end\": 305.546, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 305.546, \"end\": 305.746, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 305.746, \"end\": 305.926, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 305.926, \"end\": 306.486, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 306.486, \"end\": 306.586, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 306.586, \"end\": 306.707, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 306.707, \"end\": 306.867, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 306.867, \"end\": 307.187, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 307.187, \"end\": 307.207, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 307.207, \"end\": 307.527, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 307.527, \"end\": 307.687, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 307.687, \"end\": 307.867, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 307.867, \"end\": 308.007, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 308.007, \"end\": 308.168, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 308.168, \"end\": 308.428, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 308.428, \"end\": 308.848, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 308.848, \"end\": 309.028, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 309.028, \"end\": 309.408, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 309.408, \"end\": 309.589, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 309.589, \"end\": 309.749, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 309.749, \"end\": 310.069, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 310.069, \"end\": 310.269, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 310.269, \"end\": 311.01, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 311.01, \"end\": 311.37, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 311.37, \"end\": 311.53, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 311.53, \"end\": 311.83, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 311.83, \"end\": 312.13, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 312.13, \"end\": 312.291, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 312.291, \"end\": 312.471, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 312.471, \"end\": 313.291, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", 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\"start\": 318.155, \"end\": 318.335, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 318.335, \"end\": 318.635, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 318.635, \"end\": 318.955, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 318.955, \"end\": 319.156, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 319.156, \"end\": 319.356, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 319.356, \"end\": 319.596, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 319.596, \"end\": 319.816, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 319.816, \"end\": 320.056, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 320.056, \"end\": 320.276, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 320.276, \"end\": 320.637, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 320.637, \"end\": 320.837, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 320.837, \"end\": 321.457, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 321.457, \"end\": 321.697, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 321.697, \"end\": 321.938, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 321.938, \"end\": 322.098, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 322.098, \"end\": 322.298, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 322.298, \"end\": 322.438, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 322.438, \"end\": 322.858, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 322.858, \"end\": 323.018, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 323.018, \"end\": 323.759, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 323.759, \"end\": 323.919, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 323.919, \"end\": 324.059, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 324.059, \"end\": 324.199, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 324.199, \"end\": 324.359, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 324.359, \"end\": 324.56, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 324.56, \"end\": 324.88, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 324.88, \"end\": 325.08, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 325.08, \"end\": 325.18, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 325.18, \"end\": 325.38, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 325.38, \"end\": 325.76, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 325.76, \"end\": 326.081, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 326.081, \"end\": 326.101, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 327.108, \"end\": 334.834, \"text\": \"我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 327.108, \"end\": 327.228, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 327.228, \"end\": 327.348, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 327.348, \"end\": 327.368, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 327.368, \"end\": 327.448, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 327.448, \"end\": 327.468, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 327.468, \"end\": 327.508, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 327.508, \"end\": 327.528, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 327.528, \"end\": 327.548, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 327.548, \"end\": 327.588, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 327.588, \"end\": 327.728, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 327.728, \"end\": 327.749, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 327.749, \"end\": 327.869, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 327.869, \"end\": 327.889, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 327.889, \"end\": 327.989, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1030.119, \"end\": 1030.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 1030.139, \"end\": 1030.299, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 1030.299, \"end\": 1030.459, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 1030.459, \"end\": 1030.559, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1030.559, \"end\": 1030.679, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1030.679, \"end\": 1030.699, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,690\n郭樹梅委員上台發言謝謝主席尤其曾主委曾主委有請曾主委因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過今天是你的補考希望你好好的這個表現那另外我要再請陳副主席長陳副主席長有請\n\n2\n00:00:23,615 --> 00:00:44,053\n主委,再提醒您,您上次知道您的業務範圍就是爭取預算、修法、立法,對不對?那現在我跟這個陳副主計長在這邊對話,請您好好聽一下。陳副主計長,我要請問你,有新制定的法案,或者是修正的法案,政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算,對不對?\n\n3\n00:00:45,424 --> 00:00:46,305\n我們就依據那個來編列預算\n\n4\n00:01:04,616 --> 00:01:21,465\n為了因應100年12月2日老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第4條還有第6條的修正草案還有國民年金法增訂第54條之1條的條文修正草案在立法院也三讀通過了因為它的預算增加\n\n5\n00:01:22,125 --> 00:01:35,670\n所以行政院立刻提出預算修正案送立法院審議甚至還說如果預算仍然不足的話那麼就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應增加了163.57億\n\n6\n00:01:40,553 --> 00:01:57,999\n聽清楚了對吧請問副組長這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後我們增加預算的案例而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出因為這幾個案子都有提出只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理對嗎\n\n7\n00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:15,212\n跟委員報告就是說一百零零一年那個階段他是透過立法院的朝野協商結論但是他是先刪減然後這個先有一個通案刪減現在的禁法補償也是立法院修法通過的啊\n\n8\n00:02:15,752 --> 00:02:31,280\n是,那我現在那個階段跟當時不太一樣為什麼不太一樣我們現在還處於行政院還在籌編預算的階段對,現在接下來我就要跟您講這件問題所以不要告訴我立法院在立法院通過的法案你們不可以\n\n9\n00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:57,436\n來挪用。」就是我在總質詢的時候那你們現在中央總預算總共有三兆兩千億對不對?原民會現在也正在要籌編預算給你們嗎?被匡列預算是125億嘛那針對柯建民說他要要求原民會自己在他們的內算預算裡面去挪說其實他是\n\n10\n00:02:58,357 --> 00:03:11,630\n逾越了我們的行政院的權限。」所以,請曾主委聽好,謝謝主席長。我們來看一下,那個副主席長,你的答詢,\n\n11\n00:03:15,052 --> 00:03:42,650\n再更簡單一下因應法律案的通過所以增加相關預算這是一個常態嘛不會不是常態嘛所以這也是一個法律義務嘛對不對所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加了總共是163.57億可是我們現在回頭來看一下經法補償才只有26億好原民會主委還有原住民主計主任簡主任\n\n12\n00:03:43,769 --> 00:03:47,552\n二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人\n\n13\n00:04:01,181 --> 00:04:11,066\n對嘛,我剛剛就講了嘛,你們上面那個兩個總共增加163.57億,淨法補償只有26億,我要跟您講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別,行政院都可以編列,而原民會的26億,我們柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪,你覺得這合理嗎?好,請你休息一下\n\n14\n00:04:28,005 --> 00:04:48,982\n請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少\n\n15\n00:04:49,980 --> 00:05:00,086\n明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好\n\n16\n00:05:02,023 --> 00:05:26,101\n所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對\n\n17\n00:05:27,108 --> 00:05:34,834\n我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院\n\n18\n00:05:56,823 --> 00:06:01,288\n我先跟委員報告,我們現在還在籌編當中啦我知道啊,你說是還是不是嘛對,現在還在籌編當中那是不是?因為立法院三讀通過啦這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊\n\n19\n00:06:14,841 --> 00:06:27,513\n還是你已經說服了行政院長說在他的三兆裡面去增加你現在告訴我們這個我們會持續來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通那目前的籌編狀態就是說還是在125億這裡\n\n20\n00:06:31,758 --> 00:06:51,697\n主委我現在是特別要告訴你你是原民會的主委爭取預算是你的工作如果你在6月20號以前不把這個25億放在你的預算裡面那你就有本事讓3兆2000億裡面中央去算你有沒有這個本事你能不能答應我\n\n21\n00:06:53,001 --> 00:07:08,072\n我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通因為希望這個……那你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎?你的期望我現在還只能就目前因為這個計劃補償增加了這個3萬塊之後總的經費會增加到52億\n\n22\n00:07:12,728 --> 00:07:36,316\n我知道我跟你算過啦26億啦增加26億啦以前的就不要再算你就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛增加26億我現在簡單的告訴你如果你不匡列在你的預算的話那是你的失職因為柯主委已經在協商的時候告訴你了他希望在你的預算裡面編列如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億就是你失職\n\n23\n00:07:38,197 --> 00:08:01,607\n我會跟會裡面跟這個院裡面一定會持續來溝通來拜託如果沒有的話你要不要辭職這26月很重要啊而且這個柯總召或者是這個吳思瑤都已經說會排擠你其他的預算啊那排擠你的預算的話就是傷害原住民嗎是你傷害原住民喔不是行政院長傷害原住民喔\n\n24\n00:08:02,327 --> 00:08:17,121\n也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔!你要記得這樣子喔!尊主委你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋你要去極力爭取不是柯總召說什麼就什麼你知道嗎?我們是立法委員你是行政官員啦而且你的前老闆是誰?我的老闆是老百姓啦沒有,你的前老闆啦在屏東縣嘛攀什麼?\n\n25\n00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:54,626\n他是我以前的縣長對嘛就是以前你是以前的園民局園民處處長嘛是你前老闆嘛對不對他現在是誰賴清德總統旁邊是誰秘書長對所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛對不對所以你要跟你的前老闆講不要傷害原住民我們只有25億而已而且這是我們的土地轉型正義好不好今天要做到好接著下來新的重點再給我一點時間抱歉來\n\n26\n00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:17,077\n行政院5月20號他有發文要求各機關他們的預算施政重點要調整然後在施政重點當中原民會把要依據憲法法庭判決結果要儘速完成原住民的身份法的修法這是你列為第一項因為這是總統的政見那請問你要怎麼做\n\n27\n00:09:19,157 --> 00:09:43,494\n這個就是說我們對平埔族的這個認定我們希望先給他一個民族先認定後面再來認定身份沒有啊你看一下105年9月27號當時台南市的市長也就是賴清德市長他講第一個原住民身份法要增訂第二條第三款平埔原住民然後讓平埔族群依法認定身份\n\n28\n00:09:44,515 --> 00:10:01,246\n二、要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源,並且依據人數要編列預算,設定期程給予應有的權利。三、過渡期要建議先以民進黨不分區的立委席次,要分配一席給平埔族群主委。\n\n29\n00:10:03,988 --> 00:10:21,059\n然後呢也是列為總統政見你第一個要去解決的問題你已經盤點評估族群相關的基礎資料嗎?然後相關的資源有哪些你可以不可以簡單講上一次我就問過你這個問題今天再讓你補考一次委員我跟妳報告齁應該有什麼他的相關資源\n\n30\n00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:51,640\n你講的這個第一點第二點也並不衝突沒有錯要先沒有啦沒有衝突這是賴總統講的他在做台南市長的時候他講的先認定民主再認定身份因為他已經是做台南市長了嘛現在是總統了嘛所以我把他的三項講話告訴你沒有衝突我也沒有認為我也沒有多加這是他講的話所以呢他要你盤點相關的基礎資源然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道因為你要去落實他呀\n\n31\n00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,501\n沒有啦相關資源相關資源第二點即刻盤點評普族群相關基礎資源主委我已經上次問過你了\n\n32\n00:11:15,248 --> 00:11:29,795\n好了你不要浪費我的時間預算經費要不要有社會福利教育資源要不要有傳統領域土地要不要有如果按照這樣子來講的話你113年預算來算的話只有110億當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是18675塊\n\n33\n00:11:44,402 --> 00:11:51,388\n2022年原民會你們的統計平補足的人數大概是98萬人而98萬人如果以113年的110億的預算來算的話你們總共要增加183億請問一下現在連26億行政院都不要編了183億會編嗎?你要怎麼編?\n\n34\n00:12:08,283 --> 00:12:19,712\n我跟委員報告因為平埔族這個身份認定是到明年的這個10月27到明年的10月27有了身份之後所以我現在告訴你你要預告我們怎麼弄啊你不能夠說這些東西出來你才要去想啊主委第一個他們到底\n\n35\n00:12:28,138 --> 00:12:52,074\n最後來登記的評估組是多少人你要有預估現在原民會給我的是98萬人你為什麼還要讓他們來登記呢主委你到底有沒有準備好今天所以我再問你我再問你另外的問題增加的183億你現在告訴我的評估組人是98萬你想好要怎麼編譯了嗎有還是沒有\n\n36\n00:12:53,598 --> 00:13:06,573\n那會不會排擠以後原住民的法定的這些預算?會好會好大家聽好了會如果這些人他會排擠就表示原民會\n\n37\n00:13:09,208 --> 00:13:33,977\n爭取預算不力,他不願意讓行政院多出183億,要在原民會裡面的預算去排擠。」第二,土地的部分依照平埔族群他們一定會有傳統領域他們也必須去增化編原保地我們目前原住民的原保地26萬公頃為了平埔族群我們要增加多少你知道嗎?\n\n38\n00:13:35,452 --> 00:13:38,368\n好,你不知道40到50萬公頃你要怎麼處理\n\n39\n00:13:41,138 --> 00:14:10,558\n你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理但是你要想好怎麼處理不要浪費時間沒有時間了再來主委你有沒有考慮到參政權參政權要怎麼處理雖然賴清德說議席這個這個這個所謂的民進黨的不分區他要放議席這個不會影響到整個全體的參政權但是這個平他要放在三原還是平原還是其他的方案還是\n\n40\n00:14:11,458 --> 00:14:27,829\n什麼?有沒有講好?有沒有想好?立法委員的部份這個要修憲啦!那議員的部份...你不能完整講!完整講!如果修憲它會不會是一個很大的一個方向?它為什麼要修憲?它是放在平地原住民呢?還是山地原住民嗎?因為你...第三類的原住民...山地原住民、平地原住民...請旁邊的人不要給他打pass!他今天是來考試的!\n\n41\n00:14:38,836 --> 00:14:58,701\n平埔的原住民他不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起好講得很好的答案就是講清楚一下平埔族是另外另類平埔族他不會在平原跟山原裡面對不對對好也就是說平埔族他們會有三席的立委是這樣的意思嗎不是那是怎樣\n\n42\n00:14:59,941 --> 00:15:15,267\n跟委員報告,議員的席次一定要修憲。」好嘛,我也知道修憲嘛,所以這件事情,原民會提出了法案,最終要修憲嘛,對不對?是。好,謝謝你齁。然後議員呢?代表呢?\n\n43\n00:15:18,328 --> 00:15:23,654\n一眼修法就可以一眼修法就可以好,因為沒有跟地方政府討論過你知道我們現在在修地質法的時候已經是多辛苦了嗎只是增加議員跟代表的席次在這裡的立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗所以\n\n44\n00:15:33,925 --> 00:15:49,373\n你要如何落實賴總統的政見不是一個原民會說你要修法就可以啦你真的已經準備好了嗎主委你真的沒有準備好今天我問你的這個簡單的問題你都還在這邊搞不太清楚今天因為時間到了你看到了沒有我才問你幾個問題兩個問題一個是進法補償一個是你剛剛說要落實這個原住民證這不要談教育我要講\n\n45\n00:15:58,497 --> 00:16:16,527\n提一下你的教育裡面還沒有講原賴總統的雙軌制度什麼是雙軌制度你沒有講清楚你今天提的這個書面報告都是以前9年前本席在教育文化委員會的時候跟我們原民會的教育處整合的平台\n\n46\n00:16:17,267 --> 00:16:30,827\n你知道嗎?你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告說明裡面我有報告,剛剛的報告就是先訂立一個雙軌那什麼叫做雙軌?雙軌就是足以跟一般的教育\n\n47\n00:16:31,465 --> 00:16:53,590\n那你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎?有幾所?現在民族教育還在做還沒有到大概只有到七年級啦像一些這個實驗還在實驗的當中啦那是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐嘛對不對那你要怎麼實踐?你今天沒有講啊我們目前先把基礎打好\n\n48\n00:16:54,110 --> 00:17:10,699\n基礎是我們幫你打好的高金素梅九年當中跟原民會前面的主委但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西我還是沒有看到啊主委回去再準備一下好不好好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝高金召委的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1690\t郭樹梅委員上台發言謝謝主席尤其曾主委曾主委有請曾主委因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過今天是你的補考希望你好好的這個表現那另外我要再請陳副主席長陳副主席長有請\n23615\t44053\t主委,再提醒您,您上次知道您的業務範圍就是爭取預算、修法、立法,對不對?那現在我跟這個陳副主計長在這邊對話,請您好好聽一下。陳副主計長,我要請問你,有新制定的法案,或者是修正的法案,政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算,對不對?\n45424\t46305\t我們就依據那個來編列預算\n64616\t81465\t為了因應100年12月2日老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第4條還有第6條的修正草案還有國民年金法增訂第54條之1條的條文修正草案在立法院也三讀通過了因為它的預算增加\n82125\t95670\t所以行政院立刻提出預算修正案送立法院審議甚至還說如果預算仍然不足的話那麼就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應增加了163.57億\n100553\t117999\t聽清楚了對吧請問副組長這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後我們增加預算的案例而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出因為這幾個案子都有提出只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理對嗎\n119600\t135212\t跟委員報告就是說一百零零一年那個階段他是透過立法院的朝野協商結論但是他是先刪減然後這個先有一個通案刪減現在的禁法補償也是立法院修法通過的啊\n135752\t151280\t是,那我現在那個階段跟當時不太一樣為什麼不太一樣我們現在還處於行政院還在籌編預算的階段對,現在接下來我就要跟您講這件問題所以不要告訴我立法院在立法院通過的法案你們不可以\n152300\t177436\t來挪用。」就是我在總質詢的時候那你們現在中央總預算總共有三兆兩千億對不對?原民會現在也正在要籌編預算給你們嗎?被匡列預算是125億嘛那針對柯建民說他要要求原民會自己在他們的內算預算裡面去挪說其實他是\n178357\t191630\t逾越了我們的行政院的權限。」所以,請曾主委聽好,謝謝主席長。我們來看一下,那個副主席長,你的答詢,\n195052\t222650\t再更簡單一下因應法律案的通過所以增加相關預算這是一個常態嘛不會不是常態嘛所以這也是一個法律義務嘛 對不對所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加了總共是163.57億可是我們現在回頭來看一下經法補償才只有26億好 原民會主委還有原住民主計主任簡主任\n223769\t227552\t二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人\n241181\t251066\t對嘛,我剛剛就講了嘛,你們上面那個兩個總共增加163.57億,淨法補償只有26億,我要跟您講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別,行政院都可以編列,而原民會的26億,我們柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪,你覺得這合理嗎?好,請你休息一下\n268005\t288982\t請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少\n289980\t300086\t明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好\n302023\t326101\t所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對\n327108\t334834\t我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院\n356823\t361288\t我先跟委員報告,我們現在還在籌編當中啦我知道啊,你說是還是不是嘛對,現在還在籌編當中那是不是?因為立法院三讀通過啦這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊\n374841\t387513\t還是你已經說服了行政院長說在他的三兆裡面去增加你現在告訴我們這個我們會持續來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通那目前的籌編狀態就是說還是在125億這裡\n391758\t411697\t主委我現在是特別要告訴你你是原民會的主委爭取預算是你的工作如果你在6月20號以前不把這個25億放在你的預算裡面那你就有本事讓3兆2000億裡面中央去算你有沒有這個本事你能不能答應我\n413001\t428072\t我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通因為希望這個……那你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎?你的期望我現在還只能就目前因為這個計劃補償增加了這個3萬塊之後總的經費會增加到52億\n432728\t456316\t我知道我跟你算過啦26億啦增加26億啦以前的就不要再算你就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛增加26億我現在簡單的告訴你如果你不匡列在你的預算的話那是你的失職因為柯主委已經在協商的時候告訴你了他希望在你的預算裡面編列如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億就是你失職\n458197\t481607\t我會跟會裡面跟這個院裡面一定會持續來溝通來拜託如果沒有的話你要不要辭職這26月很重要啊而且這個柯總召或者是這個吳思瑤都已經說會排擠你其他的預算啊那排擠你的預算的話就是傷害原住民嗎是你傷害原住民喔不是行政院長傷害原住民喔\n482327\t497121\t也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔!你要記得這樣子喔!尊主委你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋你要去極力爭取不是柯總召說什麼就什麼你知道嗎?我們是立法委員你是行政官員啦而且你的前老闆是誰?我的老闆是老百姓啦沒有,你的前老闆啦在屏東縣嘛攀什麼?\n508650\t534626\t他是我以前的縣長對嘛就是以前你是以前的園民局園民處處長嘛是你前老闆嘛對不對他現在是誰賴清德總統旁邊是誰秘書長對所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛對不對所以你要跟你的前老闆講不要傷害原住民我們只有25億而已而且這是我們的土地轉型正義好不好今天要做到好接著下來新的重點再給我一點時間抱歉來\n537870\t557077\t行政院5月20號他有發文要求各機關他們的預算施政重點要調整然後在施政重點當中原民會把要依據憲法法庭判決結果要儘速完成原住民的身份法的修法這是你列為第一項因為這是總統的政見那請問你要怎麼做\n559157\t583494\t這個就是說我們對平埔族的這個認定我們希望先給他一個民族先認定後面再來認定身份沒有啊你看一下105年9月27號當時台南市的市長也就是賴清德市長他講第一個原住民身份法要增訂第二條第三款平埔原住民然後讓平埔族群依法認定身份\n584515\t601246\t二、要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源,並且依據人數要編列預算,設定期程給予應有的權利。三、過渡期要建議先以民進黨不分區的立委席次,要分配一席給平埔族群主委 。\n603988\t621059\t然後呢也是列為總統政見你第一個要去解決的問題你已經盤點評估族群相關的基礎資料嗎?然後相關的資源有哪些你可以不可以簡單講上一次我就問過你這個問題今天再讓你補考一次委員我跟妳報告齁應該有什麼他的相關資源\n621960\t651640\t你講的這個第一點第二點也並不衝突沒有錯要先沒有啦沒有衝突這是賴總統講的他在做台南市長的時候他講的先認定民主再認定身份因為他已經是做台南市長了嘛現在是總統了嘛所以我把他的三項講話告訴你沒有衝突我也沒有認為我也沒有多加這是他講的話所以呢他要你盤點相關的基礎資源然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道因為你要去落實他呀\n652360\t653501\t沒有啦相關資源相關資源第二點即刻盤點評普族群相關基礎資源主委我已經上次問過你了\n675248\t689795\t好了你不要浪費我的時間預算經費要不要有社會福利教育資源要不要有傳統領域土地要不要有如果按照這樣子來講的話你113年預算來算的話只有110億當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是18675塊\n704402\t711388\t2022年原民會你們的統計平補足的人數大概是98萬人而98萬人如果以113年的110億的預算來算的話你們總共要增加183億請問一下現在連26億行政院都不要編了183億會編嗎?你要怎麼編?\n728283\t739712\t我跟委員報告因為平埔族這個身份認定是到明年的這個10月27到明年的10月27有了身份之後所以我現在告訴你你要預告我們怎麼弄啊你不能夠說這些東西出來你才要去想啊主委第一個他們到底\n748138\t772074\t最後來登記的評估組是多少人你要有預估現在原民會給我的是98萬人你為什麼還要讓他們來登記呢主委你到底有沒有準備好今天所以我再問你我再問你另外的問題增加的183億你現在告訴我的評估組人是98萬你想好要怎麼編譯了嗎有還是沒有\n773598\t786573\t那會不會排擠以後原住民的法定的這些預算?會好 會好 大家聽好了 會如果這些人他會排擠就表示原民會\n789208\t813977\t爭取預算不力,他不願意讓行政院多出183億,要在原民會裡面的預算去排擠。」第二,土地的部分依照平埔族群他們一定會有傳統領域他們也必須去增化編原保地我們目前原住民的原保地26萬公頃為了平埔族群我們要增加多少你知道嗎?\n815452\t818368\t好,你不知道40到50萬公頃你要怎麼處理\n821138\t850558\t你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理但是你要想好怎麼處理不要浪費時間沒有時間了再來主委你有沒有考慮到參政權參政權要怎麼處理雖然賴清德說議席這個這個這個所謂的民進黨的不分區他要放議席這個不會影響到整個全體的參政權但是這個平他要放在三原還是平原還是其他的方案還是\n851458\t867829\t什麼?有沒有講好?有沒有想好?立法委員的部份這個要修憲啦!那議員的部份...你不能完整講!完整講!如果修憲它會不會是一個很大的一個方向?它為什麼要修憲?它是放在平地原住民呢?還是山地原住民嗎?因為你...第三類的原住民...山地原住民、平地原住民...請旁邊的人不要給他打pass!他今天是來考試的!\n878836\t898701\t平埔的原住民他不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起好講得很好的答案就是講清楚一下平埔族是另外另類平埔族他不會在平原跟山原裡面對不對對好也就是說平埔族他們會有三席的立委是這樣的意思嗎不是那是怎樣\n899941\t915267\t跟委員報告,議員的席次一定要修憲。」好嘛,我也知道修憲嘛,所以這件事情,原民會提出了法案,最終要修憲嘛,對不對?是。好,謝謝你齁。然後議員呢?代表呢?\n918328\t923654\t一眼修法就可以一眼修法就可以好,因為沒有跟地方政府討論過你知道我們現在在修地質法的時候已經是多辛苦了嗎只是增加議員跟代表的席次在這裡的立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗所以\n933925\t949373\t你要如何落實賴總統的政見不是一個原民會說你要修法就可以啦你真的已經準備好了嗎主委你真的沒有準備好今天我問你的這個簡單的問題你都還在這邊搞不太清楚今天因為時間到了你看到了沒有我才問你幾個問題兩個問題一個是進法補償一個是你剛剛說要落實這個原住民證這不要談教育我要講\n958497\t976527\t提一下你的教育裡面還沒有講原賴總統的雙軌制度什麼是雙軌制度你沒有講清楚你今天提的這個書面報告都是以前9年前本席在教育文化委員會的時候跟我們原民會的教育處整合的平台\n977267\t990827\t你知道嗎?你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告說明裡面我有報告,剛剛的報告就是先訂立一個雙軌那什麼叫做雙軌?雙軌就是足以跟一般的教育\n991465\t1013590\t那你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎?有幾所?現在民族教育還在做還沒有到大概只有到七年級啦像一些這個實驗還在實驗的當中啦那是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐嘛對不對那你要怎麼實踐?你今天沒有講啊我們目前先把基礎打好\n1014110\t1030699\t基礎是我們幫你打好的高金素梅九年當中跟原民會前面的主委但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西我還是沒有看到啊主委回去再準備一下好不好好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝高金召委的質詢\n","txt":"郭樹梅委員上台發言謝謝主席尤其曾主委曾主委有請曾主委因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過今天是你的補考希望你好好的這個表現那另外我要再請陳副主席長陳副主席長有請\n主委,再提醒您,您上次知道您的業務範圍就是爭取預算、修法、立法,對不對?那現在我跟這個陳副主計長在這邊對話,請您好好聽一下。陳副主計長,我要請問你,有新制定的法案,或者是修正的法案,政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算,對不對?\n我們就依據那個來編列預算\n為了因應100年12月2日老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第4條還有第6條的修正草案還有國民年金法增訂第54條之1條的條文修正草案在立法院也三讀通過了因為它的預算增加\n所以行政院立刻提出預算修正案送立法院審議甚至還說如果預算仍然不足的話那麼就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應增加了163.57億\n聽清楚了對吧請問副組長這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後我們增加預算的案例而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出因為這幾個案子都有提出只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理對嗎\n跟委員報告就是說一百零零一年那個階段他是透過立法院的朝野協商結論但是他是先刪減然後這個先有一個通案刪減現在的禁法補償也是立法院修法通過的啊\n是,那我現在那個階段跟當時不太一樣為什麼不太一樣我們現在還處於行政院還在籌編預算的階段對,現在接下來我就要跟您講這件問題所以不要告訴我立法院在立法院通過的法案你們不可以\n來挪用。」就是我在總質詢的時候那你們現在中央總預算總共有三兆兩千億對不對?原民會現在也正在要籌編預算給你們嗎?被匡列預算是125億嘛那針對柯建民說他要要求原民會自己在他們的內算預算裡面去挪說其實他是\n逾越了我們的行政院的權限。」所以,請曾主委聽好,謝謝主席長。我們來看一下,那個副主席長,你的答詢,\n再更簡單一下因應法律案的通過所以增加相關預算這是一個常態嘛不會不是常態嘛所以這也是一個法律義務嘛 對不對所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加了總共是163.57億可是我們現在回頭來看一下經法補償才只有26億好 原民會主委還有原住民主計主任簡主任\n二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人\n對嘛,我剛剛就講了嘛,你們上面那個兩個總共增加163.57億,淨法補償只有26億,我要跟您講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別,行政院都可以編列,而原民會的26億,我們柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪,你覺得這合理嗎?好,請你休息一下\n請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少\n明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好\n所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對\n我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院\n我先跟委員報告,我們現在還在籌編當中啦我知道啊,你說是還是不是嘛對,現在還在籌編當中那是不是?因為立法院三讀通過啦這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊\n還是你已經說服了行政院長說在他的三兆裡面去增加你現在告訴我們這個我們會持續來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通那目前的籌編狀態就是說還是在125億這裡\n主委我現在是特別要告訴你你是原民會的主委爭取預算是你的工作如果你在6月20號以前不把這個25億放在你的預算裡面那你就有本事讓3兆2000億裡面中央去算你有沒有這個本事你能不能答應我\n我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通因為希望這個……那你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎?你的期望我現在還只能就目前因為這個計劃補償增加了這個3萬塊之後總的經費會增加到52億\n我知道我跟你算過啦26億啦增加26億啦以前的就不要再算你就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛增加26億我現在簡單的告訴你如果你不匡列在你的預算的話那是你的失職因為柯主委已經在協商的時候告訴你了他希望在你的預算裡面編列如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億就是你失職\n我會跟會裡面跟這個院裡面一定會持續來溝通來拜託如果沒有的話你要不要辭職這26月很重要啊而且這個柯總召或者是這個吳思瑤都已經說會排擠你其他的預算啊那排擠你的預算的話就是傷害原住民嗎是你傷害原住民喔不是行政院長傷害原住民喔\n也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔!你要記得這樣子喔!尊主委你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋你要去極力爭取不是柯總召說什麼就什麼你知道嗎?我們是立法委員你是行政官員啦而且你的前老闆是誰?我的老闆是老百姓啦沒有,你的前老闆啦在屏東縣嘛攀什麼?\n他是我以前的縣長對嘛就是以前你是以前的園民局園民處處長嘛是你前老闆嘛對不對他現在是誰賴清德總統旁邊是誰秘書長對所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛對不對所以你要跟你的前老闆講不要傷害原住民我們只有25億而已而且這是我們的土地轉型正義好不好今天要做到好接著下來新的重點再給我一點時間抱歉來\n行政院5月20號他有發文要求各機關他們的預算施政重點要調整然後在施政重點當中原民會把要依據憲法法庭判決結果要儘速完成原住民的身份法的修法這是你列為第一項因為這是總統的政見那請問你要怎麼做\n這個就是說我們對平埔族的這個認定我們希望先給他一個民族先認定後面再來認定身份沒有啊你看一下105年9月27號當時台南市的市長也就是賴清德市長他講第一個原住民身份法要增訂第二條第三款平埔原住民然後讓平埔族群依法認定身份\n二、要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源,並且依據人數要編列預算,設定期程給予應有的權利。三、過渡期要建議先以民進黨不分區的立委席次,要分配一席給平埔族群主委 。\n然後呢也是列為總統政見你第一個要去解決的問題你已經盤點評估族群相關的基礎資料嗎?然後相關的資源有哪些你可以不可以簡單講上一次我就問過你這個問題今天再讓你補考一次委員我跟妳報告齁應該有什麼他的相關資源\n你講的這個第一點第二點也並不衝突沒有錯要先沒有啦沒有衝突這是賴總統講的他在做台南市長的時候他講的先認定民主再認定身份因為他已經是做台南市長了嘛現在是總統了嘛所以我把他的三項講話告訴你沒有衝突我也沒有認為我也沒有多加這是他講的話所以呢他要你盤點相關的基礎資源然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道因為你要去落實他呀\n沒有啦相關資源相關資源第二點即刻盤點評普族群相關基礎資源主委我已經上次問過你了\n好了你不要浪費我的時間預算經費要不要有社會福利教育資源要不要有傳統領域土地要不要有如果按照這樣子來講的話你113年預算來算的話只有110億當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是18675塊\n2022年原民會你們的統計平補足的人數大概是98萬人而98萬人如果以113年的110億的預算來算的話你們總共要增加183億請問一下現在連26億行政院都不要編了183億會編嗎?你要怎麼編?\n我跟委員報告因為平埔族這個身份認定是到明年的這個10月27到明年的10月27有了身份之後所以我現在告訴你你要預告我們怎麼弄啊你不能夠說這些東西出來你才要去想啊主委第一個他們到底\n最後來登記的評估組是多少人你要有預估現在原民會給我的是98萬人你為什麼還要讓他們來登記呢主委你到底有沒有準備好今天所以我再問你我再問你另外的問題增加的183億你現在告訴我的評估組人是98萬你想好要怎麼編譯了嗎有還是沒有\n那會不會排擠以後原住民的法定的這些預算?會好 會好 大家聽好了 會如果這些人他會排擠就表示原民會\n爭取預算不力,他不願意讓行政院多出183億,要在原民會裡面的預算去排擠。」第二,土地的部分依照平埔族群他們一定會有傳統領域他們也必須去增化編原保地我們目前原住民的原保地26萬公頃為了平埔族群我們要增加多少你知道嗎?\n好,你不知道40到50萬公頃你要怎麼處理\n你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理但是你要想好怎麼處理不要浪費時間沒有時間了再來主委你有沒有考慮到參政權參政權要怎麼處理雖然賴清德說議席這個這個這個所謂的民進黨的不分區他要放議席這個不會影響到整個全體的參政權但是這個平他要放在三原還是平原還是其他的方案還是\n什麼?有沒有講好?有沒有想好?立法委員的部份這個要修憲啦!那議員的部份...你不能完整講!完整講!如果修憲它會不會是一個很大的一個方向?它為什麼要修憲?它是放在平地原住民呢?還是山地原住民嗎?因為你...第三類的原住民...山地原住民、平地原住民...請旁邊的人不要給他打pass!他今天是來考試的!\n平埔的原住民他不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起好講得很好的答案就是講清楚一下平埔族是另外另類平埔族他不會在平原跟山原裡面對不對對好也就是說平埔族他們會有三席的立委是這樣的意思嗎不是那是怎樣\n跟委員報告,議員的席次一定要修憲。」好嘛,我也知道修憲嘛,所以這件事情,原民會提出了法案,最終要修憲嘛,對不對?是。好,謝謝你齁。然後議員呢?代表呢?\n一眼修法就可以一眼修法就可以好,因為沒有跟地方政府討論過你知道我們現在在修地質法的時候已經是多辛苦了嗎只是增加議員跟代表的席次在這裡的立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗所以\n你要如何落實賴總統的政見不是一個原民會說你要修法就可以啦你真的已經準備好了嗎主委你真的沒有準備好今天我問你的這個簡單的問題你都還在這邊搞不太清楚今天因為時間到了你看到了沒有我才問你幾個問題兩個問題一個是進法補償一個是你剛剛說要落實這個原住民證這不要談教育我要講\n提一下你的教育裡面還沒有講原賴總統的雙軌制度什麼是雙軌制度你沒有講清楚你今天提的這個書面報告都是以前9年前本席在教育文化委員會的時候跟我們原民會的教育處整合的平台\n你知道嗎?你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告說明裡面我有報告,剛剛的報告就是先訂立一個雙軌那什麼叫做雙軌?雙軌就是足以跟一般的教育\n那你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎?有幾所?現在民族教育還在做還沒有到大概只有到七年級啦像一些這個實驗還在實驗的當中啦那是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐嘛對不對那你要怎麼實踐?你今天沒有講啊我們目前先把基礎打好\n基礎是我們幫你打好的高金素梅九年當中跟原民會前面的主委但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西我還是沒有看到啊主委回去再準備一下好不好好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝高金召委的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.690\n郭樹梅委員上台發言謝謝主席尤其曾主委曾主委有請曾主委因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過今天是你的補考希望你好好的這個表現那另外我要再請陳副主席長陳副主席長有請\n\n00:23.615 --> 00:44.053\n主委,再提醒您,您上次知道您的業務範圍就是爭取預算、修法、立法,對不對?那現在我跟這個陳副主計長在這邊對話,請您好好聽一下。陳副主計長,我要請問你,有新制定的法案,或者是修正的法案,政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算,對不對?\n\n00:45.424 --> 00:46.305\n我們就依據那個來編列預算\n\n01:04.616 --> 01:21.465\n為了因應100年12月2日老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第4條還有第6條的修正草案還有國民年金法增訂第54條之1條的條文修正草案在立法院也三讀通過了因為它的預算增加\n\n01:22.125 --> 01:35.670\n所以行政院立刻提出預算修正案送立法院審議甚至還說如果預算仍然不足的話那麼就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應增加了163.57億\n\n01:40.553 --> 01:57.999\n聽清楚了對吧請問副組長這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後我們增加預算的案例而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出因為這幾個案子都有提出只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理對嗎\n\n01:59.600 --> 02:15.212\n跟委員報告就是說一百零零一年那個階段他是透過立法院的朝野協商結論但是他是先刪減然後這個先有一個通案刪減現在的禁法補償也是立法院修法通過的啊\n\n02:15.752 --> 02:31.280\n是,那我現在那個階段跟當時不太一樣為什麼不太一樣我們現在還處於行政院還在籌編預算的階段對,現在接下來我就要跟您講這件問題所以不要告訴我立法院在立法院通過的法案你們不可以\n\n02:32.300 --> 02:57.436\n來挪用。」就是我在總質詢的時候那你們現在中央總預算總共有三兆兩千億對不對?原民會現在也正在要籌編預算給你們嗎?被匡列預算是125億嘛那針對柯建民說他要要求原民會自己在他們的內算預算裡面去挪說其實他是\n\n02:58.357 --> 03:11.630\n逾越了我們的行政院的權限。」所以,請曾主委聽好,謝謝主席長。我們來看一下,那個副主席長,你的答詢,\n\n03:15.052 --> 03:42.650\n再更簡單一下因應法律案的通過所以增加相關預算這是一個常態嘛不會不是常態嘛所以這也是一個法律義務嘛對不對所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加了總共是163.57億可是我們現在回頭來看一下經法補償才只有26億好原民會主委還有原住民主計主任簡主任\n\n03:43.769 --> 03:47.552\n二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人\n\n04:01.181 --> 04:11.066\n對嘛,我剛剛就講了嘛,你們上面那個兩個總共增加163.57億,淨法補償只有26億,我要跟您講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別,行政院都可以編列,而原民會的26億,我們柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪,你覺得這合理嗎?好,請你休息一下\n\n04:28.005 --> 04:48.982\n請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少\n\n04:49.980 --> 05:00.086\n明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好\n\n05:02.023 --> 05:26.101\n所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對\n\n05:27.108 --> 05:34.834\n我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院\n\n05:56.823 --> 06:01.288\n我先跟委員報告,我們現在還在籌編當中啦我知道啊,你說是還是不是嘛對,現在還在籌編當中那是不是?因為立法院三讀通過啦這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊\n\n06:14.841 --> 06:27.513\n還是你已經說服了行政院長說在他的三兆裡面去增加你現在告訴我們這個我們會持續來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通那目前的籌編狀態就是說還是在125億這裡\n\n06:31.758 --> 06:51.697\n主委我現在是特別要告訴你你是原民會的主委爭取預算是你的工作如果你在6月20號以前不把這個25億放在你的預算裡面那你就有本事讓3兆2000億裡面中央去算你有沒有這個本事你能不能答應我\n\n06:53.001 --> 07:08.072\n我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通因為希望這個……那你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎?你的期望我現在還只能就目前因為這個計劃補償增加了這個3萬塊之後總的經費會增加到52億\n\n07:12.728 --> 07:36.316\n我知道我跟你算過啦26億啦增加26億啦以前的就不要再算你就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛增加26億我現在簡單的告訴你如果你不匡列在你的預算的話那是你的失職因為柯主委已經在協商的時候告訴你了他希望在你的預算裡面編列如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億就是你失職\n\n07:38.197 --> 08:01.607\n我會跟會裡面跟這個院裡面一定會持續來溝通來拜託如果沒有的話你要不要辭職這26月很重要啊而且這個柯總召或者是這個吳思瑤都已經說會排擠你其他的預算啊那排擠你的預算的話就是傷害原住民嗎是你傷害原住民喔不是行政院長傷害原住民喔\n\n08:02.327 --> 08:17.121\n也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔!你要記得這樣子喔!尊主委你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋你要去極力爭取不是柯總召說什麼就什麼你知道嗎?我們是立法委員你是行政官員啦而且你的前老闆是誰?我的老闆是老百姓啦沒有,你的前老闆啦在屏東縣嘛攀什麼?\n\n08:28.650 --> 08:54.626\n他是我以前的縣長對嘛就是以前你是以前的園民局園民處處長嘛是你前老闆嘛對不對他現在是誰賴清德總統旁邊是誰秘書長對所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛對不對所以你要跟你的前老闆講不要傷害原住民我們只有25億而已而且這是我們的土地轉型正義好不好今天要做到好接著下來新的重點再給我一點時間抱歉來\n\n08:57.870 --> 09:17.077\n行政院5月20號他有發文要求各機關他們的預算施政重點要調整然後在施政重點當中原民會把要依據憲法法庭判決結果要儘速完成原住民的身份法的修法這是你列為第一項因為這是總統的政見那請問你要怎麼做\n\n09:19.157 --> 09:43.494\n這個就是說我們對平埔族的這個認定我們希望先給他一個民族先認定後面再來認定身份沒有啊你看一下105年9月27號當時台南市的市長也就是賴清德市長他講第一個原住民身份法要增訂第二條第三款平埔原住民然後讓平埔族群依法認定身份\n\n09:44.515 --> 10:01.246\n二、要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源,並且依據人數要編列預算,設定期程給予應有的權利。三、過渡期要建議先以民進黨不分區的立委席次,要分配一席給平埔族群主委。\n\n10:03.988 --> 10:21.059\n然後呢也是列為總統政見你第一個要去解決的問題你已經盤點評估族群相關的基礎資料嗎?然後相關的資源有哪些你可以不可以簡單講上一次我就問過你這個問題今天再讓你補考一次委員我跟妳報告齁應該有什麼他的相關資源\n\n10:21.960 --> 10:51.640\n你講的這個第一點第二點也並不衝突沒有錯要先沒有啦沒有衝突這是賴總統講的他在做台南市長的時候他講的先認定民主再認定身份因為他已經是做台南市長了嘛現在是總統了嘛所以我把他的三項講話告訴你沒有衝突我也沒有認為我也沒有多加這是他講的話所以呢他要你盤點相關的基礎資源然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道因為你要去落實他呀\n\n10:52.360 --> 10:53.501\n沒有啦相關資源相關資源第二點即刻盤點評普族群相關基礎資源主委我已經上次問過你了\n\n11:15.248 --> 11:29.795\n好了你不要浪費我的時間預算經費要不要有社會福利教育資源要不要有傳統領域土地要不要有如果按照這樣子來講的話你113年預算來算的話只有110億當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是18675塊\n\n11:44.402 --> 11:51.388\n2022年原民會你們的統計平補足的人數大概是98萬人而98萬人如果以113年的110億的預算來算的話你們總共要增加183億請問一下現在連26億行政院都不要編了183億會編嗎?你要怎麼編?\n\n12:08.283 --> 12:19.712\n我跟委員報告因為平埔族這個身份認定是到明年的這個10月27到明年的10月27有了身份之後所以我現在告訴你你要預告我們怎麼弄啊你不能夠說這些東西出來你才要去想啊主委第一個他們到底\n\n12:28.138 --> 12:52.074\n最後來登記的評估組是多少人你要有預估現在原民會給我的是98萬人你為什麼還要讓他們來登記呢主委你到底有沒有準備好今天所以我再問你我再問你另外的問題增加的183億你現在告訴我的評估組人是98萬你想好要怎麼編譯了嗎有還是沒有\n\n12:53.598 --> 13:06.573\n那會不會排擠以後原住民的法定的這些預算?會好會好大家聽好了會如果這些人他會排擠就表示原民會\n\n13:09.208 --> 13:33.977\n爭取預算不力,他不願意讓行政院多出183億,要在原民會裡面的預算去排擠。」第二,土地的部分依照平埔族群他們一定會有傳統領域他們也必須去增化編原保地我們目前原住民的原保地26萬公頃為了平埔族群我們要增加多少你知道嗎?\n\n13:35.452 --> 13:38.368\n好,你不知道40到50萬公頃你要怎麼處理\n\n13:41.138 --> 14:10.558\n你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理但是你要想好怎麼處理不要浪費時間沒有時間了再來主委你有沒有考慮到參政權參政權要怎麼處理雖然賴清德說議席這個這個這個所謂的民進黨的不分區他要放議席這個不會影響到整個全體的參政權但是這個平他要放在三原還是平原還是其他的方案還是\n\n14:11.458 --> 14:27.829\n什麼?有沒有講好?有沒有想好?立法委員的部份這個要修憲啦!那議員的部份...你不能完整講!完整講!如果修憲它會不會是一個很大的一個方向?它為什麼要修憲?它是放在平地原住民呢?還是山地原住民嗎?因為你...第三類的原住民...山地原住民、平地原住民...請旁邊的人不要給他打pass!他今天是來考試的!\n\n14:38.836 --> 14:58.701\n平埔的原住民他不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起好講得很好的答案就是講清楚一下平埔族是另外另類平埔族他不會在平原跟山原裡面對不對對好也就是說平埔族他們會有三席的立委是這樣的意思嗎不是那是怎樣\n\n14:59.941 --> 15:15.267\n跟委員報告,議員的席次一定要修憲。」好嘛,我也知道修憲嘛,所以這件事情,原民會提出了法案,最終要修憲嘛,對不對?是。好,謝謝你齁。然後議員呢?代表呢?\n\n15:18.328 --> 15:23.654\n一眼修法就可以一眼修法就可以好,因為沒有跟地方政府討論過你知道我們現在在修地質法的時候已經是多辛苦了嗎只是增加議員跟代表的席次在這裡的立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗所以\n\n15:33.925 --> 15:49.373\n你要如何落實賴總統的政見不是一個原民會說你要修法就可以啦你真的已經準備好了嗎主委你真的沒有準備好今天我問你的這個簡單的問題你都還在這邊搞不太清楚今天因為時間到了你看到了沒有我才問你幾個問題兩個問題一個是進法補償一個是你剛剛說要落實這個原住民證這不要談教育我要講\n\n15:58.497 --> 16:16.527\n提一下你的教育裡面還沒有講原賴總統的雙軌制度什麼是雙軌制度你沒有講清楚你今天提的這個書面報告都是以前9年前本席在教育文化委員會的時候跟我們原民會的教育處整合的平台\n\n16:17.267 --> 16:30.827\n你知道嗎?你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告說明裡面我有報告,剛剛的報告就是先訂立一個雙軌那什麼叫做雙軌?雙軌就是足以跟一般的教育\n\n16:31.465 --> 16:53.590\n那你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎?有幾所?現在民族教育還在做還沒有到大概只有到七年級啦像一些這個實驗還在實驗的當中啦那是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐嘛對不對那你要怎麼實踐?你今天沒有講啊我們目前先把基礎打好\n\n16:54.110 --> 17:10.699\n基礎是我們幫你打好的高金素梅九年當中跟原民會前面的主委但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西我還是沒有看到啊主委回去再準備一下好不好好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝高金召委的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.69,"text":"郭樹梅委員上台發言謝謝主席尤其曾主委曾主委有請曾主委因為你上次在這邊考試沒有通過今天是你的補考希望你好好的這個表現那另外我要再請陳副主席長陳副主席長有請"},{"start":23.615,"end":44.053,"text":"主委,再提醒您,您上次知道您的業務範圍就是爭取預算、修法、立法,對不對?那現在我跟這個陳副主計長在這邊對話,請您好好聽一下。陳副主計長,我要請問你,有新制定的法案,或者是修正的法案,政府就應該要依據法案內容增加預算,對不對?"},{"start":45.424,"end":46.305,"text":"我們就依據那個來編列預算"},{"start":64.616,"end":81.465,"text":"為了因應100年12月2日老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第4條還有第6條的修正草案還有國民年金法增訂第54條之1條的條文修正草案在立法院也三讀通過了因為它的預算增加"},{"start":82.125,"end":95.67,"text":"所以行政院立刻提出預算修正案送立法院審議甚至還說如果預算仍然不足的話那麼就同意中央要特別用統籌分配稅款來支應增加了163.57億"},{"start":100.553,"end":117.999,"text":"聽清楚了對吧請問副組長這是不是因為因應條文修正案三讀通過以後我們增加預算的案例而且不管是行政院提出或立法院提出因為這幾個案子都有提出只要是三讀通過就必須這樣處理對嗎"},{"start":119.6,"end":135.212,"text":"跟委員報告就是說一百零零一年那個階段他是透過立法院的朝野協商結論但是他是先刪減然後這個先有一個通案刪減現在的禁法補償也是立法院修法通過的啊"},{"start":135.752,"end":151.28,"text":"是,那我現在那個階段跟當時不太一樣為什麼不太一樣我們現在還處於行政院還在籌編預算的階段對,現在接下來我就要跟您講這件問題所以不要告訴我立法院在立法院通過的法案你們不可以"},{"start":152.3,"end":177.436,"text":"來挪用。」就是我在總質詢的時候那你們現在中央總預算總共有三兆兩千億對不對?原民會現在也正在要籌編預算給你們嗎?被匡列預算是125億嘛那針對柯建民說他要要求原民會自己在他們的內算預算裡面去挪說其實他是"},{"start":178.357,"end":191.63,"text":"逾越了我們的行政院的權限。」所以,請曾主委聽好,謝謝主席長。我們來看一下,那個副主席長,你的答詢,"},{"start":195.052,"end":222.65,"text":"再更簡單一下因應法律案的通過所以增加相關預算這是一個常態嘛不會不是常態嘛所以這也是一個法律義務嘛 對不對所以當時我們在修訂這兩個法的時候增加了總共是163.57億可是我們現在回頭來看一下經法補償才只有26億好 原民會主委還有原住民主計主任簡主任"},{"start":223.769,"end":227.552,"text":"二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人原住民基金會、財團法人"},{"start":241.181,"end":251.066,"text":"對嘛,我剛剛就講了嘛,你們上面那個兩個總共增加163.57億,淨法補償只有26億,我要跟您講的是26億跟163.57億這麼大的一個差別,行政院都可以編列,而原民會的26億,我們柯總召卻要原民會自己去挪,你覺得這合理嗎?好,請你休息一下"},{"start":268.005,"end":288.982,"text":"請您休息一下我知道了你們必須在你們的三兆兩千億裡面去挪用我也請行政院長回去要考慮也是原民會現在你的責任了原民會主委還有簡主任你們聽到了沒有因應法律通過就必須可以增加相關預算所以我們從最簡單的開始今年原民會預算多少"},{"start":289.98,"end":300.086,"text":"明年是籌編125億好那在籌備25億中央政府總預算有多少?剛剛我也講算照2000億好"},{"start":302.023,"end":326.101,"text":"所以也就是說三兆兩千億中央也有增加一成然後原民會你們也增加一成嘛對不對按照這樣的比例來看嘛那原民會的預算目前125億五月初你們核定的是125億但是呢我知道行政院在五月二十號他曾經發文要求重新要調整喔所以六月二十號你們要重新報院對不對"},{"start":327.108,"end":334.834,"text":"我現在在籌編的狀態好在籌編也就是說有一個月的期間嘛從520一直到現在所以運算額度是可以調整的對不對所以125億不是最終的額度嘛對目前好現在來了經法補償三讀通過前125億6月4號通過了要增加26億很簡單125億加26億等於151億所以原民會你們在6月20號之前是不是會提這樣的數字給行政院"},{"start":356.823,"end":361.288,"text":"我先跟委員報告,我們現在還在籌編當中啦我知道啊,你說是還是不是嘛對,現在還在籌編當中那是不是?因為立法院三讀通過啦這個預算是在你原民會裡面啊所以你要125億加26億等於是151億啊"},{"start":374.841,"end":387.513,"text":"還是你已經說服了行政院長說在他的三兆裡面去增加你現在告訴我們這個我們會持續來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通那目前的籌編狀態就是說還是在125億這裡"},{"start":391.758,"end":411.697,"text":"主委我現在是特別要告訴你你是原民會的主委爭取預算是你的工作如果你在6月20號以前不把這個25億放在你的預算裡面那你就有本事讓3兆2000億裡面中央去算你有沒有這個本事你能不能答應我"},{"start":413.001,"end":428.072,"text":"我會盡全力來跟院裡面拜託跟溝通因為希望這個……那你現在能夠告訴我到底要編在哪裡嗎?你的期望我現在還只能就目前因為這個計劃補償增加了這個3萬塊之後總的經費會增加到52億"},{"start":432.728,"end":456.316,"text":"我知道我跟你算過啦26億啦增加26億啦以前的就不要再算你就是在以前的錢裡面增加26億嘛增加26億我現在簡單的告訴你如果你不匡列在你的預算的話那是你的失職因為柯主委已經在協商的時候告訴你了他希望在你的預算裡面編列如果我在預算書看不到你增加這26億就是你失職"},{"start":458.197,"end":481.607,"text":"我會跟會裡面跟這個院裡面一定會持續來溝通來拜託如果沒有的話你要不要辭職這26月很重要啊而且這個柯總召或者是這個吳思瑤都已經說會排擠你其他的預算啊那排擠你的預算的話就是傷害原住民嗎是你傷害原住民喔不是行政院長傷害原住民喔"},{"start":482.327,"end":497.121,"text":"也不是賴清德總統傷害原住民喔!你要記得這樣子喔!尊主委你不要習慣給自己穿小鞋你要去極力爭取不是柯總召說什麼就什麼你知道嗎?我們是立法委員你是行政官員啦而且你的前老闆是誰?我的老闆是老百姓啦沒有,你的前老闆啦在屏東縣嘛攀什麼?"},{"start":508.65,"end":534.626,"text":"他是我以前的縣長對嘛就是以前你是以前的園民局園民處處長嘛是你前老闆嘛對不對他現在是誰賴清德總統旁邊是誰秘書長對所以他會直接跟總統接近嘛對不對所以你要跟你的前老闆講不要傷害原住民我們只有25億而已而且這是我們的土地轉型正義好不好今天要做到好接著下來新的重點再給我一點時間抱歉來"},{"start":537.87,"end":557.077,"text":"行政院5月20號他有發文要求各機關他們的預算施政重點要調整然後在施政重點當中原民會把要依據憲法法庭判決結果要儘速完成原住民的身份法的修法這是你列為第一項因為這是總統的政見那請問你要怎麼做"},{"start":559.157,"end":583.494,"text":"這個就是說我們對平埔族的這個認定我們希望先給他一個民族先認定後面再來認定身份沒有啊你看一下105年9月27號當時台南市的市長也就是賴清德市長他講第一個原住民身份法要增訂第二條第三款平埔原住民然後讓平埔族群依法認定身份"},{"start":584.515,"end":601.246,"text":"二、要你即刻盤點平埔族群相關的基礎資源,並且依據人數要編列預算,設定期程給予應有的權利。三、過渡期要建議先以民進黨不分區的立委席次,要分配一席給平埔族群主委 。"},{"start":603.988,"end":621.059,"text":"然後呢也是列為總統政見你第一個要去解決的問題你已經盤點評估族群相關的基礎資料嗎?然後相關的資源有哪些你可以不可以簡單講上一次我就問過你這個問題今天再讓你補考一次委員我跟妳報告齁應該有什麼他的相關資源"},{"start":621.96,"end":651.64,"text":"你講的這個第一點第二點也並不衝突沒有錯要先沒有啦沒有衝突這是賴總統講的他在做台南市長的時候他講的先認定民主再認定身份因為他已經是做台南市長了嘛現在是總統了嘛所以我把他的三項講話告訴你沒有衝突我也沒有認為我也沒有多加這是他講的話所以呢他要你盤點相關的基礎資源然後相關資源有哪些你知不知道因為你要去落實他呀"},{"start":652.36,"end":653.501,"text":"沒有啦相關資源相關資源第二點即刻盤點評普族群相關基礎資源主委我已經上次問過你了"},{"start":675.248,"end":689.795,"text":"好了你不要浪費我的時間預算經費要不要有社會福利教育資源要不要有傳統領域土地要不要有如果按照這樣子來講的話你113年預算來算的話只有110億當時我們原住民人口只有58.9萬如果平均每一個原住民可以分享到的預算是18675塊"},{"start":704.402,"end":711.388,"text":"2022年原民會你們的統計平補足的人數大概是98萬人而98萬人如果以113年的110億的預算來算的話你們總共要增加183億請問一下現在連26億行政院都不要編了183億會編嗎?你要怎麼編?"},{"start":728.283,"end":739.712,"text":"我跟委員報告因為平埔族這個身份認定是到明年的這個10月27到明年的10月27有了身份之後所以我現在告訴你你要預告我們怎麼弄啊你不能夠說這些東西出來你才要去想啊主委第一個他們到底"},{"start":748.138,"end":772.074,"text":"最後來登記的評估組是多少人你要有預估現在原民會給我的是98萬人你為什麼還要讓他們來登記呢主委你到底有沒有準備好今天所以我再問你我再問你另外的問題增加的183億你現在告訴我的評估組人是98萬你想好要怎麼編譯了嗎有還是沒有"},{"start":773.598,"end":786.573,"text":"那會不會排擠以後原住民的法定的這些預算?會好 會好 大家聽好了 會如果這些人他會排擠就表示原民會"},{"start":789.208,"end":813.977,"text":"爭取預算不力,他不願意讓行政院多出183億,要在原民會裡面的預算去排擠。」第二,土地的部分依照平埔族群他們一定會有傳統領域他們也必須去增化編原保地我們目前原住民的原保地26萬公頃為了平埔族群我們要增加多少你知道嗎?"},{"start":815.452,"end":818.368,"text":"好,你不知道40到50萬公頃你要怎麼處理"},{"start":821.138,"end":850.558,"text":"你現在沒有辦法回答我怎麼處理但是你要想好怎麼處理不要浪費時間沒有時間了再來主委你有沒有考慮到參政權參政權要怎麼處理雖然賴清德說議席這個這個這個所謂的民進黨的不分區他要放議席這個不會影響到整個全體的參政權但是這個平他要放在三原還是平原還是其他的方案還是"},{"start":851.458,"end":867.829,"text":"什麼?有沒有講好?有沒有想好?立法委員的部份這個要修憲啦!那議員的部份...你不能完整講!完整講!如果修憲它會不會是一個很大的一個方向?它為什麼要修憲?它是放在平地原住民呢?還是山地原住民嗎?因為你...第三類的原住民...山地原住民、平地原住民...請旁邊的人不要給他打pass!他今天是來考試的!"},{"start":878.836,"end":898.701,"text":"平埔的原住民他不會跟山地原住民還有平地原住民合在一起好講得很好的答案就是講清楚一下平埔族是另外另類平埔族他不會在平原跟山原裡面對不對對好也就是說平埔族他們會有三席的立委是這樣的意思嗎不是那是怎樣"},{"start":899.941,"end":915.267,"text":"跟委員報告,議員的席次一定要修憲。」好嘛,我也知道修憲嘛,所以這件事情,原民會提出了法案,最終要修憲嘛,對不對?是。好,謝謝你齁。然後議員呢?代表呢?"},{"start":918.328,"end":923.654,"text":"一眼修法就可以一眼修法就可以好,因為沒有跟地方政府討論過你知道我們現在在修地質法的時候已經是多辛苦了嗎只是增加議員跟代表的席次在這裡的立法委員都吵得一塌糊塗所以"},{"start":933.925,"end":949.373,"text":"你要如何落實賴總統的政見不是一個原民會說你要修法就可以啦你真的已經準備好了嗎主委你真的沒有準備好今天我問你的這個簡單的問題你都還在這邊搞不太清楚今天因為時間到了你看到了沒有我才問你幾個問題兩個問題一個是進法補償一個是你剛剛說要落實這個原住民證這不要談教育我要講"},{"start":958.497,"end":976.527,"text":"提一下你的教育裡面還沒有講原賴總統的雙軌制度什麼是雙軌制度你沒有講清楚你今天提的這個書面報告都是以前9年前本席在教育文化委員會的時候跟我們原民會的教育處整合的平台"},{"start":977.267,"end":990.827,"text":"你知道嗎?你沒有把賴總統的雙軌教育制度放在你今天的報告說明裡面我有報告,剛剛的報告就是先訂立一個雙軌那什麼叫做雙軌?雙軌就是足以跟一般的教育"},{"start":991.465,"end":1013.59,"text":"那你清楚知道現在有民族教育了嗎?有幾所?現在民族教育還在做還沒有到大概只有到七年級啦像一些這個實驗還在實驗的當中啦那是不是所謂的雙軌叫實踐嘛對不對那你要怎麼實踐?你今天沒有講啊我們目前先把基礎打好"},{"start":1014.11,"end":1030.699,"text":"基礎是我們幫你打好的高金素梅九年當中跟原民會前面的主委但是你要怎麼樣落實賴總統的東西我還是沒有看到啊主委回去再準備一下好不好好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝高金召委的質詢"}]}}}}