{"id":153952,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153952","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba07a391c97da1257d88ff7e0bc1ebc5021ae5baf1b56d47734f3b915669f50d0dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"10:32:23 - 10:44:25","影片長度":"00:12:02","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T10:32:23+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T10:44:25+08:00","duration":722,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":514,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（10時32分）我們請兩位署長，消防及警政署署長，兩位政次就不用啦，因為我大概瞭解政次跟常次還是有不一樣的功能性，所以就不多請教了。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：先跟兩位說聲抱歉啦，昨天對兩位有一點不高興、動怒，但是因為昨天兩位說要請假，我在這邊先說明一下，我不同意請假主要是因為今天我們討論的事情是兩位署長底下所有的同仁，以及退休的那些學長們相關於他們的福利嘛，所以我覺得這個對他們而言是一件天大的事情啦，所以我實在是不認同兩位請假。我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說，兩位署長其實是有盡力請假，是我這邊不准啦！我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。當然我不是說兩位啦，因為我的個性是這樣，我覺得如果一個人當官想要攀附權貴的話，有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對，我反對這個年金所得替代率的調整，如果今天有人想攀附的話；但是如果我想照顧部屬，有肩膀就應該來這裡告訴大家我支持這個改革，所以我不認為逃避是一個該做的事。更何況今天國民黨甲動，國民黨為了這些警消海巡有關年金所得替代率的問題，大家是甲動一定要來這裡幫這些人謀福利，但身為署長的不來，我覺得不管用任何理由啦，我是不能接受。所以先為昨天的事情跟兩位說聲抱歉，因為我平常不是會隨便生氣的，但是遇到這個事情，我真的覺得我不太能夠接受這樣。","我先請教兩位，剛剛其實有其他委員跟兩位請教，請問一下，你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案，就年金的所得替代率我們希望修正，請問兩位支持嗎？"],["張署長榮興：我剛剛也有跟幾位委員報告過了，警察的工作的性質，是一個特殊……"],["吳委員宗憲：沒有，沒有，就說支持或不支持就好了，我想這是一個……"],["張署長榮興：我覺得只要是照顧警察的，因為我們有的單位是說有它的困難，但是我們以本署的態度，會積極協調他們各相關主管機關來辦理有關修訂的這件事情。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我先跟兩位說，為什麼我這邊也覺得這件事情一定要排上議程？我覺得對於警消或是海巡這一類的人，當然將來有可能更多……要對他們的替代率要去調整，主要是因為這些人本身就是高危險的職業，並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面，可能相對他的危險性較低。所以我們認為某程度的比照軍人其實有他的道理，更何況今天有非常多的委員有說，甚至我們現在要把警察認為是第二軍隊，之前還有人說是不是每個派出所要發一個刺針飛彈。你把警察做這樣子的認定，結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重，這一點我其實不太能夠接受。","我們看一下，過去20年有28位警察殉職，最近10年有43位消防員殉職，這個數字是很可怕，而且每一個數字代表是那個家庭的破碎，你不能夠把這問題等閒視之啊！當國家需要穩定的時候，大家都找他們；然後國家穩定了之後，大家都忘記他們，這一點我真的是很難接受啦！更何況這段時間，以員警來說，平均每年傷殘的人數是700到900人，而且像剛剛蘇委員所提到的，平均年齡也比國人少掉非常多，當然這個跟他們執勤的時間不固定都有很大關係，對健康傷害是很大，所以你動不動拿他來跟一般朝九晚五的公務員來比，說真的我不太能接受。畢竟我以前工作的經驗，我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員，我也跟警察一起出去辦案過，所以我很瞭解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬。","再來，我們看一下這段時間年金改革之後，政府總是告訴人民這樣我們可以省多少錢，但它卻沒有告訴人民帶來多嚴重的副作用，我們以這個數字來看，警察退休的年齡在110年平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲，等於我剛出來的時候，那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子，你現在到派出所去看，一堆人都滿頭白髮了，這樣子他要怎麼樣去維持我們鄰里社會上的治安？他體力上有沒有辦法負荷？這是一個很大問題。更何況年金改革之後，造成非常多公務員不願意退休，因為所得替代率的問題，結果年輕人現在沒有缺，因為公務員沒有人退休，缺開不出來，年輕人進不了公部門體系，結果相對的造成失業率可能增加。並且因為年改之後，他們在生活上面支出要縮減，一樣會造成另外一個問題，除了影響他們的生活品質之外，還有可能會造成社會上經濟也會減少，經濟減少之後小吃店之類也會受損，因為他們沒有生意做、賺不到錢，國家也會有問題啊，因為它抽不到稅金。這一連串下來，國家只告訴人民我省了多少錢，卻沒有告訴人民這樣的副作用有多少？這其實是我對國家的一些作法不是很認同的地方啦！更何況這段時間，大家拼命的在延退！","延續著剛剛羅智強委員所提到，其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年幾千億的損失，以台電來說好了，過去兩年就虧了4,000億，還要用國家的錢來補。結果依剛剛銓敘部的報告，將來如果說要提高警消這些退休所得的話，到第30年每年才增加60億，更何況現在10到19年是增加二十多億，20到29年增加四十多億，30年之後才是每年增加60億，這60億相較於現在動不動每年幾千億的損失，我真的不知道為什麼不去尊重這些警消？我是認為現在政府給我感覺是裝睡的人叫不醒啦！視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天，這是我對現在國家的感覺，更何況現在CPI變動這麼高，你拿之前的退休金讓他們生活，其實不是那麼容易啦！所以我一直在思考這樣下去要怎麼辦？","我跟兩位署長報告一件事情，我爸爸年輕的時候是警察，他是警校52期畢業的，所以我小時候是住在警察宿舍裡面，我住的警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊──桃警新村，全部都是一層樓的老建築，我小時候住在這邊。我的鄰居都是警察，都是警察局的消防隊消防員，所以我從小對於警消我就特別尊敬他們，因為他們就是我們的鄰居，或是我爸爸工作地方的同仁，所以我從當檢察官到現在我都非常尊敬，而且我都很重視這些警察或是消防人員，我覺得要保護他們的福利，我相信署長你一定也有這種認同。其實我對警察的看法是這樣，我覺得國家有難，如果今天國家財政狀況出問題，我相信這些警消會共體時艱，但是你看這一段時間，稅金還超收，超收還要發現金回去給人民，然後一堆錯誤的政策，我覺得你們好像忘了這些警消、這些人付出青春，然後拿生命保護我們，大家都忘了他們，我真的覺得不應該啦！","其實我93、94年那個時候，不好意思，主席給我一點點時間。93還94年那時候，我曾經帶隊在臺中勤美那邊辦案，然後被開槍，兩邊開了六十幾槍，當天我們是深夜辦案，我爸爸在清晨的時候看電視看到新聞以後打電話罵我罵得很兇，這就是家屬對警察同仁的擔心啦！那我當檢察官還很少會遇到這種危險，但是這是很多警察在日常會遇到的，這二、三十年來你聽到有檢察官被開槍的大概就只有我這一件而已，那時候我爸爸很生氣，他生氣不是氣我去工作，他是氣我如果被打到以後這個家要怎麼辦，所以這就是警察、消防員家屬的心情，我很能夠理解這個感覺。更何況何佩珊部長在談到勞保的時候其實也有講到，他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革，何佩珊部長都講過這種話，但是他是對勞工，那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦！所以我再請教兩位署長，你們到底支不支持這次我們國民黨這些委員所提出想要調高所得替代率的法案？"],["張署長榮興：在剛剛聽了委員的一席話之後，本署就是會跟剛剛所講的主管機關積極來協調，來支持做這樣一個能夠提高我們同仁相關福利的措施。"],["吳委員宗憲：那消防署長呢？"],["蕭署長煥章：是，感謝委員對消防這麼關心，我們對在職跟退休人員一樣都要重視，都要來照顧，謝謝。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝兩位署長，所以兩位署長也要給我們力量，也要給現職人員力量，然後給退休人員一些希望，我真的覺得兩位署長一定要做到這樣，因為你看在颱風天，我們放颱風假待在家裡，可是警消是停休，他們要到外面去保護我們，然後每次哪裡有危險，大家在逃難，可是警消卻是往逃難的反方向進去，就是越靠近危險，所以這個社會本來就應該給軍警消、海巡這些人員最高的尊敬，而不是像現在這個作法，因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命。兩位署長，不好意思，我昨天動怒了，我在這邊跟你們說聲抱歉，但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事，那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革，謝謝兩位。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：謝謝。那我們下一位請牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條\n條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(十一)委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員\n張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136301_00011"}},"transcript":{"id":"153952","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153952","tool":"pyannote","id":"153952-pyannote"},"job_id":"uurKQHaSBsRFSALr","queued_at":"2024-06-13 12:52:12","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-13 12:53:38","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153952"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:53:39","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba07a391c97da1257d88ff7e0bc1ebc50211d141634ad16f55fc4bff79263d1a9a05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:54:08","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:54:09","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:54:21","msg":"status: 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\"start\": 44.098, \"end\": 44.118, \"score\": 0.996}]}, {\"start\": 45.984, \"end\": 47.626, \"text\": \"兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 45.984, \"end\": 46.064, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 46.064, \"end\": 46.144, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 46.144, \"end\": 46.264, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 46.264, \"end\": 46.425, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 46.425, \"end\": 46.565, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 46.565, \"end\": 46.665, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 46.665, \"end\": 46.685, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 46.685, \"end\": 46.725, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 46.725, \"end\": 46.845, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 46.845, \"end\": 46.905, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 46.905, \"end\": 46.965, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"及\", 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 88.944, \"end\": 89.104, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 89.104, \"end\": 89.464, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 89.464, \"end\": 89.744, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 89.744, \"end\": 90.784, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 90.784, \"end\": 90.924, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 90.924, \"end\": 91.004, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 91.004, \"end\": 91.084, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 91.084, \"end\": 91.545, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 91.545, \"end\": 91.765, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 91.765, \"end\": 92.105, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 92.105, \"end\": 92.285, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 92.285, \"end\": 92.445, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 720.596, \"end\": 720.616, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,176 --> 00:00:30,274\n請吳宗憲委員發言我們請那個兩位署長消防及警政署署長那正次的話我想說兩位次長我覺得是正次就不用啦因為比較我大概會瞭解說正次跟長次還是有不一樣的功能性所以就不多請教了好那個\n\n2\n00:00:36,389 --> 00:00:44,118\n先跟兩位說聲道抱歉就昨天有一點對兩位有點不高興、動怒但是\n\n3\n00:00:45,984 --> 00:00:47,626\n兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的\n\n4\n00:01:05,362 --> 00:01:25,662\n相關於他們的福利。所以我覺得這個對他們也是一件天大的事情。所以我實在是不認同說兩位請假。那我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說啦,兩位署長其實是有盡力請假,是我這邊不准。那我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。\n\n5\n00:01:26,643 --> 00:01:52,311\n當然我不是說兩位因為我的個性是這樣我覺得如果一個人當官如果想要攀附權貴的話有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對年金所得替代率的調整如果今天我想攀附的話但是如果我想照顧部署的話有肩膀的話就應該來這裡告訴大家說我支持這個改革所以\n\n6\n00:01:54,355 --> 00:02:09,623\n所以我不認為說逃避是一個該做的事更何況今天國民黨假凍國民黨為了這些警消海巡的有關年金所得替代率的問題\n\n7\n00:02:10,723 --> 00:02:10,863\n二）委員\n\n8\n00:02:32,925 --> 00:02:54,021\n請教兩位好了因為剛剛其實有有有其他委員有跟兩位請教說請問一下你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案就是就這個年金的所得替代率我們希望修正請問兩位支持嗎對剛剛也跟有跟幾位委員報告過了就是警察的工作的性質\n\n9\n00:02:55,242 --> 00:02:57,023\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n10\n00:03:17,772 --> 00:03:44,906\n我先跟兩位說為什麼我這邊也覺得說這次事情一定要排上這個議程而且我覺得要對於警消或是海巡這一類的人當然將來有可能更多要對他們的這個替代率要去調整主要是因為這些人他本身就是高危險的職業並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面可能相對他的危險性較低所以\n\n11\n00:03:45,834 --> 00:03:48,956\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n12\n00:04:02,846 --> 00:04:22,736\n結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重這一點我其實不太能夠接受我們看一下其實過去20年有28位警察殉職那最近10年有43位消防員殉職這個數字是很可怕而且每一個數字我覺得代表的是那個家庭的破碎你不能夠說等閒釋之這個問題\n\n13\n00:04:25,868 --> 00:04:28,969\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例十五條條文修正三草案案案案案案案\n\n14\n00:04:50,434 --> 00:05:15,962\n年齡也比國人少少掉非常多這個當然跟他們執勤的時間不固定這個都有很大關係對健康傷害是很大所以你動不動拿他來跟一般的公務員朝九晚五的公務員來比我說真的我不太能接受畢竟我以前工作的經驗我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員我也跟警察一起出去辦案過所以我很了解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬好\n\n15\n00:05:20,427 --> 00:05:25,782\n再來我們看一下這一段時間這個年金改革之後其實\n\n16\n00:05:27,625 --> 00:05:51,923\n政府總是告訴人民一個這樣我們可以省多少錢但他卻沒有告訴人民他帶來有多嚴重的副作用我們以這個數字來看警察退休的年齡在110年他的平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲等於我剛出來的時候那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子你現在去派出所去看一堆人都滿頭白髮那這樣子的他要怎麼樣去維持到\n\n17\n00:05:52,583 --> 00:05:53,783\n條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n\n18\n00:06:15,526 --> 00:06:33,840\n因為你年改之後他們在生活上面他們的支出要縮減一樣會造成另外一個問題除了他們的生活品質影響之外他還有可能會造成社會上面他經濟也會減少經濟減少之後小吃店什麼他們也受損啊因為他們賺不到他們沒有生意做賺不到錢\n\n19\n00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:56,452\n國家也會有問題啊因為他抽不到稅金所以這一連串下來我只國家只告訴人民說我省了多少錢卻沒有告訴人民說這樣的副作用有多少這是我對於這個國家的一些做法我其實不是很認同的地方啦更何況這段時間大家拼命的在延退那延續了剛剛羅志強委員所提到\n\n20\n00:06:56,952 --> 00:07:08,501\n其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年是幾千億的損失以台電來說好了過去兩年就虧了四千億然後還要用國家的錢來補結果剛剛全序部的報告\n\n21\n00:07:15,171 --> 00:07:37,705\n將來如果說要提高警消這些的退休所得的話在到第30年每年才增加60億更何況現在10到19年是增加20多億20到29年增加40多億30年之後才是每年增加60億60億在相比較於現在動不動每年幾千億的\n\n22\n00:07:39,893 --> 00:08:07,010\n這損失我真的不知道我們為什麼不去尊重這些警消我是認為啦就是現在政府給我的感覺是裝醉人叫不行啦然後視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天這是我對現在國家的感覺更何況現在CPI變動這麼高你拿之前的那個退休金去讓他們生活其實不是那麼容易啦所以我我一直在思考說這樣下去要怎麼辦\n\n23\n00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:30,827\n那我跟兩位署長報告一件事情我爸爸年輕的時候是警察他是警校52期畢業的所以我小時候住在警察宿舍裡面我住的那警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊是那桃井新村全部都是一層樓的那個老建築我小時候住在這邊我的鄰居都是警察都是\n\n24\n00:08:31,767 --> 00:08:55,412\n警察局的消防隊都消防員所以我從小對於警消我就覺得是特別尊敬他們因為他們就是我們的鄰居或是我爸爸工作的地方所以我從當警察官到現在我都非常尊敬而且我都很重視這些警察或這些消防我覺得要保護他們的福利我相信署長你一定也有這種認同\n\n25\n00:08:57,099 --> 00:09:23,560\n那我覺得其實我對警察的看法是這樣我覺得國家有難齁如果今天國家財政狀況出問題我相信這些警消會共體事件但是你看這一段時間稅金還超收超收就還要發現金回去給人民然後一堆錯誤的政策那我覺得欸你們好像忘了這些警消這些人付出青春然後拿生命保護我們大家都忘了他們我真的覺得不應該啦齁\n\n26\n00:09:24,821 --> 00:09:25,362\n兩邊開了60幾槍。然後我爸就當天\n\n27\n00:09:40,060 --> 00:09:43,001\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n28\n00:10:00,169 --> 00:10:15,126\n所以我家我爸就說很生氣耶他氣不是氣我公主他氣是氣說你這樣子如果被打到以後這個家怎麼辦所以這就是警察、消防員他們家屬的心情啦所以我很能夠理解這個感覺啦\n\n29\n00:10:17,338 --> 00:10:40,084\n合佩山部長在談到勞保的時候,他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革。合佩山部長他都講過這種話,但是他是對勞工。那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦。所以我在請教兩位署長,你到底支不支持我們這一次國民黨\n\n30\n00:10:41,365 --> 00:10:41,886\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n\n31\n00:11:02,295 --> 00:11:03,557\n兩位組長你也要給我們力量你也要給現職的人\n\n32\n00:11:13,479 --> 00:11:15,300\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條\n\n33\n00:11:36,079 --> 00:12:00,616\n這個社會本來就應該給軍警消海巡這些人最高的尊敬而不是像現在這個做法因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命所以我希望兩位署長不好意思我昨天動怒了但是我這邊跟你們說聲抱歉但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革謝謝兩位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3176\t30274\t請吳宗憲委員發言我們請那個兩位署長消防及警政署署長那正次的話我想說兩位次長我覺得是正次就不用啦因為比較我大概會瞭解說正次跟長次還是有不一樣的功能性所以就不多請教了好那個\n36389\t44118\t先跟兩位說聲道抱歉就昨天有一點對兩位有點不高興、動怒但是\n45984\t47626\t兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的\n65362\t85662\t相關於他們的福利。所以我覺得這個對他們也是一件天大的事情。所以我實在是不認同說兩位請假。那我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說啦,兩位署長其實是有盡力請假,是我這邊不准。那我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。\n86643\t112311\t當然我不是說兩位因為我的個性是這樣我覺得如果一個人當官如果想要攀附權貴的話有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對年金所得替代率的調整如果今天我想攀附的話但是如果我想照顧部署的話有肩膀的話就應該來這裡告訴大家說我支持這個改革所以\n114355\t129623\t所以我不認為說逃避是一個該做的事更何況今天國民黨假凍國民黨為了這些警消海巡的有關年金所得替代率的問題\n130723\t130863\t二）委員\n152925\t174021\t請教兩位好了因為剛剛其實有有有其他委員有跟兩位請教說請問一下你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案就是就這個年金的所得替代率我們希望修正請問兩位支持嗎對剛剛也跟有跟幾位委員報告過了就是警察的工作的性質\n175242\t177023\t條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n197772\t224906\t我先跟兩位說為什麼我這邊也覺得說這次事情一定要排上這個議程而且我覺得要對於警消或是海巡這一類的人當然將來有可能更多要對他們的這個替代率要去調整主要是因為這些人他本身就是高危險的職業並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面可能相對他的危險性較低所以\n225834\t228956\t條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n242846\t262736\t結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重這一點我其實不太能夠接受我們看一下其實過去20年有28位警察殉職那最近10年有43位消防員殉職這個數字是很可怕而且每一個數字我覺得代表的是那個家庭的破碎你不能夠說等閒釋之這個問題\n265868\t268969\t二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例十五條條文修正三草案案案案案案案\n290434\t315962\t年齡也比國人少少掉非常多這個當然跟他們執勤的時間不固定這個都有很大關係對健康傷害是很大所以你動不動拿他來跟一般的公務員朝九晚五的公務員來比我說真的我不太能接受畢竟我以前工作的經驗我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員我也跟警察一起出去辦案過所以我很了解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬好\n320427\t325782\t再來我們看一下這一段時間這個年金改革之後其實\n327625\t351923\t政府總是告訴人民一個這樣我們可以省多少錢但他卻沒有告訴人民他帶來有多嚴重的副作用我們以這個數字來看警察退休的年齡在110年他的平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲等於我剛出來的時候那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子你現在去派出所去看一堆人都滿頭白髮那這樣子的他要怎麼樣去維持到\n352583\t353783\t條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n375526\t393840\t因為你年改之後他們在生活上面他們的支出要縮減一樣會造成另外一個問題除了他們的生活品質影響之外他還有可能會造成社會上面他經濟也會減少經濟減少之後小吃店什麼他們也受損啊因為他們賺不到他們沒有生意做賺不到錢\n394700\t416452\t國家也會有問題啊因為他抽不到稅金所以這一連串下來我只國家只告訴人民說我省了多少錢卻沒有告訴人民說這樣的副作用有多少這是我對於這個國家的一些做法我其實不是很認同的地方啦更何況這段時間大家拼命的在延退那延續了剛剛羅志強委員所提到\n416952\t428501\t其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年是幾千億的損失以台電來說好了過去兩年就虧了四千億然後還要用國家的錢來補結果剛剛全序部的報告\n435171\t457705\t將來如果說要提高警消這些的退休所得的話在到第30年每年才增加60億更何況現在10到19年是增加20多億20到29年增加40多億30年之後才是每年增加60億60億在相比較於現在動不動每年幾千億的\n459893\t487010\t這損失我真的不知道我們為什麼不去尊重這些警消我是認為啦就是現在政府給我的感覺是裝醉人叫不行啦然後視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天這是我對現在國家的感覺更何況現在CPI變動這麼高你拿之前的那個退休金去讓他們生活其實不是那麼容易啦所以我我一直在思考說這樣下去要怎麼辦\n488240\t510827\t那我跟兩位署長報告一件事情我爸爸年輕的時候是警察他是警校52期畢業的所以我小時候住在警察宿舍裡面我住的那警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊是那桃井新村全部都是一層樓的那個老建築我小時候住在這邊我的鄰居都是警察都是\n511767\t535412\t警察局的消防隊都消防員所以我從小對於警消我就覺得是特別尊敬他們因為他們就是我們的鄰居或是我爸爸工作的地方所以我從當警察官到現在我都非常尊敬而且我都很重視這些警察或這些消防我覺得要保護他們的福利我相信署長你一定也有這種認同\n537099\t563560\t那我覺得其實我對警察的看法是這樣我覺得國家有難齁如果今天國家財政狀況出問題我相信這些警消會共體事件但是你看這一段時間稅金還超收超收就還要發現金回去給人民然後一堆錯誤的政策那我覺得欸你們好像忘了這些警消這些人付出青春然後拿生命保護我們大家都忘了他們我真的覺得不應該啦齁\n564821\t565362\t兩邊開了60幾槍。然後我爸就當天\n580060\t583001\t三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n600169\t615126\t所以我家我爸就說很生氣耶他氣不是氣我公主他氣是氣說你這樣子如果被打到以後這個家怎麼辦所以這就是警察、消防員他們家屬的心情啦所以我很能夠理解這個感覺啦\n617338\t640084\t合佩山部長在談到勞保的時候,他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革。合佩山部長他都講過這種話,但是他是對勞工。那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦。所以我在請教兩位署長,你到底支不支持我們這一次國民黨\n641365\t641886\t二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n662295\t663557\t兩位組長你也要給我們力量你也要給現職的人\n673479\t675300\t條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條\n696079\t720616\t這個社會本來就應該給軍警消海巡這些人最高的尊敬而不是像現在這個做法因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命所以我希望兩位署長不好意思我昨天動怒了但是我這邊跟你們說聲抱歉但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革謝謝兩位\n","txt":"請吳宗憲委員發言我們請那個兩位署長消防及警政署署長那正次的話我想說兩位次長我覺得是正次就不用啦因為比較我大概會瞭解說正次跟長次還是有不一樣的功能性所以就不多請教了好那個\n先跟兩位說聲道抱歉就昨天有一點對兩位有點不高興、動怒但是\n兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的\n相關於他們的福利。所以我覺得這個對他們也是一件天大的事情。所以我實在是不認同說兩位請假。那我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說啦,兩位署長其實是有盡力請假,是我這邊不准。那我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。\n當然我不是說兩位因為我的個性是這樣我覺得如果一個人當官如果想要攀附權貴的話有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對年金所得替代率的調整如果今天我想攀附的話但是如果我想照顧部署的話有肩膀的話就應該來這裡告訴大家說我支持這個改革所以\n所以我不認為說逃避是一個該做的事更何況今天國民黨假凍國民黨為了這些警消海巡的有關年金所得替代率的問題\n二）委員\n請教兩位好了因為剛剛其實有有有其他委員有跟兩位請教說請問一下你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案就是就這個年金的所得替代率我們希望修正請問兩位支持嗎對剛剛也跟有跟幾位委員報告過了就是警察的工作的性質\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n我先跟兩位說為什麼我這邊也覺得說這次事情一定要排上這個議程而且我覺得要對於警消或是海巡這一類的人當然將來有可能更多要對他們的這個替代率要去調整主要是因為這些人他本身就是高危險的職業並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面可能相對他的危險性較低所以\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重這一點我其實不太能夠接受我們看一下其實過去20年有28位警察殉職那最近10年有43位消防員殉職這個數字是很可怕而且每一個數字我覺得代表的是那個家庭的破碎你不能夠說等閒釋之這個問題\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例十五條條文修正三草案案案案案案案\n年齡也比國人少少掉非常多這個當然跟他們執勤的時間不固定這個都有很大關係對健康傷害是很大所以你動不動拿他來跟一般的公務員朝九晚五的公務員來比我說真的我不太能接受畢竟我以前工作的經驗我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員我也跟警察一起出去辦案過所以我很了解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬好\n再來我們看一下這一段時間這個年金改革之後其實\n政府總是告訴人民一個這樣我們可以省多少錢但他卻沒有告訴人民他帶來有多嚴重的副作用我們以這個數字來看警察退休的年齡在110年他的平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲等於我剛出來的時候那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子你現在去派出所去看一堆人都滿頭白髮那這樣子的他要怎麼樣去維持到\n條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n因為你年改之後他們在生活上面他們的支出要縮減一樣會造成另外一個問題除了他們的生活品質影響之外他還有可能會造成社會上面他經濟也會減少經濟減少之後小吃店什麼他們也受損啊因為他們賺不到他們沒有生意做賺不到錢\n國家也會有問題啊因為他抽不到稅金所以這一連串下來我只國家只告訴人民說我省了多少錢卻沒有告訴人民說這樣的副作用有多少這是我對於這個國家的一些做法我其實不是很認同的地方啦更何況這段時間大家拼命的在延退那延續了剛剛羅志強委員所提到\n其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年是幾千億的損失以台電來說好了過去兩年就虧了四千億然後還要用國家的錢來補結果剛剛全序部的報告\n將來如果說要提高警消這些的退休所得的話在到第30年每年才增加60億更何況現在10到19年是增加20多億20到29年增加40多億30年之後才是每年增加60億60億在相比較於現在動不動每年幾千億的\n這損失我真的不知道我們為什麼不去尊重這些警消我是認為啦就是現在政府給我的感覺是裝醉人叫不行啦然後視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天這是我對現在國家的感覺更何況現在CPI變動這麼高你拿之前的那個退休金去讓他們生活其實不是那麼容易啦所以我我一直在思考說這樣下去要怎麼辦\n那我跟兩位署長報告一件事情我爸爸年輕的時候是警察他是警校52期畢業的所以我小時候住在警察宿舍裡面我住的那警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊是那桃井新村全部都是一層樓的那個老建築我小時候住在這邊我的鄰居都是警察都是\n警察局的消防隊都消防員所以我從小對於警消我就覺得是特別尊敬他們因為他們就是我們的鄰居或是我爸爸工作的地方所以我從當警察官到現在我都非常尊敬而且我都很重視這些警察或這些消防我覺得要保護他們的福利我相信署長你一定也有這種認同\n那我覺得其實我對警察的看法是這樣我覺得國家有難齁如果今天國家財政狀況出問題我相信這些警消會共體事件但是你看這一段時間稅金還超收超收就還要發現金回去給人民然後一堆錯誤的政策那我覺得欸你們好像忘了這些警消這些人付出青春然後拿生命保護我們大家都忘了他們我真的覺得不應該啦齁\n兩邊開了60幾槍。然後我爸就當天\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n所以我家我爸就說很生氣耶他氣不是氣我公主他氣是氣說你這樣子如果被打到以後這個家怎麼辦所以這就是警察、消防員他們家屬的心情啦所以我很能夠理解這個感覺啦\n合佩山部長在談到勞保的時候,他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革。合佩山部長他都講過這種話,但是他是對勞工。那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦。所以我在請教兩位署長,你到底支不支持我們這一次國民黨\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n兩位組長你也要給我們力量你也要給現職的人\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條\n這個社會本來就應該給軍警消海巡這些人最高的尊敬而不是像現在這個做法因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命所以我希望兩位署長不好意思我昨天動怒了但是我這邊跟你們說聲抱歉但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革謝謝兩位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.176 --> 00:30.274\n請吳宗憲委員發言我們請那個兩位署長消防及警政署署長那正次的話我想說兩位次長我覺得是正次就不用啦因為比較我大概會瞭解說正次跟長次還是有不一樣的功能性所以就不多請教了好那個\n\n00:36.389 --> 00:44.118\n先跟兩位說聲道抱歉就昨天有一點對兩位有點不高興、動怒但是\n\n00:45.984 --> 00:47.626\n兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的\n\n01:05.362 --> 01:25.662\n相關於他們的福利。所以我覺得這個對他們也是一件天大的事情。所以我實在是不認同說兩位請假。那我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說啦,兩位署長其實是有盡力請假,是我這邊不准。那我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。\n\n01:26.643 --> 01:52.311\n當然我不是說兩位因為我的個性是這樣我覺得如果一個人當官如果想要攀附權貴的話有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對年金所得替代率的調整如果今天我想攀附的話但是如果我想照顧部署的話有肩膀的話就應該來這裡告訴大家說我支持這個改革所以\n\n01:54.355 --> 02:09.623\n所以我不認為說逃避是一個該做的事更何況今天國民黨假凍國民黨為了這些警消海巡的有關年金所得替代率的問題\n\n02:10.723 --> 02:10.863\n二）委員\n\n02:32.925 --> 02:54.021\n請教兩位好了因為剛剛其實有有有其他委員有跟兩位請教說請問一下你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案就是就這個年金的所得替代率我們希望修正請問兩位支持嗎對剛剛也跟有跟幾位委員報告過了就是警察的工作的性質\n\n02:55.242 --> 02:57.023\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n03:17.772 --> 03:44.906\n我先跟兩位說為什麼我這邊也覺得說這次事情一定要排上這個議程而且我覺得要對於警消或是海巡這一類的人當然將來有可能更多要對他們的這個替代率要去調整主要是因為這些人他本身就是高危險的職業並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面可能相對他的危險性較低所以\n\n03:45.834 --> 03:48.956\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n04:02.846 --> 04:22.736\n結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重這一點我其實不太能夠接受我們看一下其實過去20年有28位警察殉職那最近10年有43位消防員殉職這個數字是很可怕而且每一個數字我覺得代表的是那個家庭的破碎你不能夠說等閒釋之這個問題\n\n04:25.868 --> 04:28.969\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例十五條條文修正三草案案案案案案案\n\n04:50.434 --> 05:15.962\n年齡也比國人少少掉非常多這個當然跟他們執勤的時間不固定這個都有很大關係對健康傷害是很大所以你動不動拿他來跟一般的公務員朝九晚五的公務員來比我說真的我不太能接受畢竟我以前工作的經驗我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員我也跟警察一起出去辦案過所以我很了解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬好\n\n05:20.427 --> 05:25.782\n再來我們看一下這一段時間這個年金改革之後其實\n\n05:27.625 --> 05:51.923\n政府總是告訴人民一個這樣我們可以省多少錢但他卻沒有告訴人民他帶來有多嚴重的副作用我們以這個數字來看警察退休的年齡在110年他的平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲等於我剛出來的時候那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子你現在去派出所去看一堆人都滿頭白髮那這樣子的他要怎麼樣去維持到\n\n05:52.583 --> 05:53.783\n條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員\n\n06:15.526 --> 06:33.840\n因為你年改之後他們在生活上面他們的支出要縮減一樣會造成另外一個問題除了他們的生活品質影響之外他還有可能會造成社會上面他經濟也會減少經濟減少之後小吃店什麼他們也受損啊因為他們賺不到他們沒有生意做賺不到錢\n\n06:34.700 --> 06:56.452\n國家也會有問題啊因為他抽不到稅金所以這一連串下來我只國家只告訴人民說我省了多少錢卻沒有告訴人民說這樣的副作用有多少這是我對於這個國家的一些做法我其實不是很認同的地方啦更何況這段時間大家拼命的在延退那延續了剛剛羅志強委員所提到\n\n06:56.952 --> 07:08.501\n其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年是幾千億的損失以台電來說好了過去兩年就虧了四千億然後還要用國家的錢來補結果剛剛全序部的報告\n\n07:15.171 --> 07:37.705\n將來如果說要提高警消這些的退休所得的話在到第30年每年才增加60億更何況現在10到19年是增加20多億20到29年增加40多億30年之後才是每年增加60億60億在相比較於現在動不動每年幾千億的\n\n07:39.893 --> 08:07.010\n這損失我真的不知道我們為什麼不去尊重這些警消我是認為啦就是現在政府給我的感覺是裝醉人叫不行啦然後視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天這是我對現在國家的感覺更何況現在CPI變動這麼高你拿之前的那個退休金去讓他們生活其實不是那麼容易啦所以我我一直在思考說這樣下去要怎麼辦\n\n08:08.240 --> 08:30.827\n那我跟兩位署長報告一件事情我爸爸年輕的時候是警察他是警校52期畢業的所以我小時候住在警察宿舍裡面我住的那警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊是那桃井新村全部都是一層樓的那個老建築我小時候住在這邊我的鄰居都是警察都是\n\n08:31.767 --> 08:55.412\n警察局的消防隊都消防員所以我從小對於警消我就覺得是特別尊敬他們因為他們就是我們的鄰居或是我爸爸工作的地方所以我從當警察官到現在我都非常尊敬而且我都很重視這些警察或這些消防我覺得要保護他們的福利我相信署長你一定也有這種認同\n\n08:57.099 --> 09:23.560\n那我覺得其實我對警察的看法是這樣我覺得國家有難齁如果今天國家財政狀況出問題我相信這些警消會共體事件但是你看這一段時間稅金還超收超收就還要發現金回去給人民然後一堆錯誤的政策那我覺得欸你們好像忘了這些警消這些人付出青春然後拿生命保護我們大家都忘了他們我真的覺得不應該啦齁\n\n09:24.821 --> 09:25.362\n兩邊開了60幾槍。然後我爸就當天\n\n09:40.060 --> 09:43.001\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n10:00.169 --> 10:15.126\n所以我家我爸就說很生氣耶他氣不是氣我公主他氣是氣說你這樣子如果被打到以後這個家怎麼辦所以這就是警察、消防員他們家屬的心情啦所以我很能夠理解這個感覺啦\n\n10:17.338 --> 10:40.084\n合佩山部長在談到勞保的時候,他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革。合佩山部長他都講過這種話,但是他是對勞工。那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦。所以我在請教兩位署長,你到底支不支持我們這一次國民黨\n\n10:41.365 --> 10:41.886\n二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具\n\n11:02.295 --> 11:03.557\n兩位組長你也要給我們力量你也要給現職的人\n\n11:13.479 --> 11:15.300\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條\n\n11:36.079 --> 12:00.616\n這個社會本來就應該給軍警消海巡這些人最高的尊敬而不是像現在這個做法因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命所以我希望兩位署長不好意思我昨天動怒了但是我這邊跟你們說聲抱歉但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革謝謝兩位\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.176,"end":30.274,"text":"請吳宗憲委員發言我們請那個兩位署長消防及警政署署長那正次的話我想說兩位次長我覺得是正次就不用啦因為比較我大概會瞭解說正次跟長次還是有不一樣的功能性所以就不多請教了好那個"},{"start":36.389,"end":44.118,"text":"先跟兩位說聲道抱歉就昨天有一點對兩位有點不高興、動怒但是"},{"start":45.984,"end":47.626,"text":"兩位署長你底下所有的同仁以及退休的學長們的"},{"start":65.362,"end":85.662,"text":"相關於他們的福利。所以我覺得這個對他們也是一件天大的事情。所以我實在是不認同說兩位請假。那我在這邊也是跟兩位署長的長官們說啦,兩位署長其實是有盡力請假,是我這邊不准。那我還是覺得關乎同仁的事才是最大的事情。"},{"start":86.643,"end":112.311,"text":"當然我不是說兩位因為我的個性是這樣我覺得如果一個人當官如果想要攀附權貴的話有種就來這裡告訴大家說我反對年金所得替代率的調整如果今天我想攀附的話但是如果我想照顧部署的話有肩膀的話就應該來這裡告訴大家說我支持這個改革所以"},{"start":114.355,"end":129.623,"text":"所以我不認為說逃避是一個該做的事更何況今天國民黨假凍國民黨為了這些警消海巡的有關年金所得替代率的問題"},{"start":130.723,"end":130.863,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":152.925,"end":174.021,"text":"請教兩位好了因為剛剛其實有有有其他委員有跟兩位請教說請問一下你們到底支不支持我們這次多位委員所提出來的提案就是就這個年金的所得替代率我們希望修正請問兩位支持嗎對剛剛也跟有跟幾位委員報告過了就是警察的工作的性質"},{"start":175.242,"end":177.023,"text":"條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及"},{"start":197.772,"end":224.906,"text":"我先跟兩位說為什麼我這邊也覺得說這次事情一定要排上這個議程而且我覺得要對於警消或是海巡這一類的人當然將來有可能更多要對他們的這個替代率要去調整主要是因為這些人他本身就是高危險的職業並不是說像一般我們公務員的文員方面可能相對他的危險性較低所以"},{"start":225.834,"end":228.956,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議"},{"start":242.846,"end":262.736,"text":"結果你卻沒有給他相對的尊重這一點我其實不太能夠接受我們看一下其實過去20年有28位警察殉職那最近10年有43位消防員殉職這個數字是很可怕而且每一個數字我覺得代表的是那個家庭的破碎你不能夠說等閒釋之這個問題"},{"start":265.868,"end":268.969,"text":"二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例十五條條文修正三草案案案案案案案"},{"start":290.434,"end":315.962,"text":"年齡也比國人少少掉非常多這個當然跟他們執勤的時間不固定這個都有很大關係對健康傷害是很大所以你動不動拿他來跟一般的公務員朝九晚五的公務員來比我說真的我不太能接受畢竟我以前工作的經驗我也當過一般朝九晚五的公務員我也跟警察一起出去辦案過所以我很了解這個不能夠完全相等的比擬好"},{"start":320.427,"end":325.782,"text":"再來我們看一下這一段時間這個年金改革之後其實"},{"start":327.625,"end":351.923,"text":"政府總是告訴人民一個這樣我們可以省多少錢但他卻沒有告訴人民他帶來有多嚴重的副作用我們以這個數字來看警察退休的年齡在110年他的平均退休年齡已經到56.3歲等於我剛出來的時候那時候派出所都是黑頭髮年輕小夥子你現在去派出所去看一堆人都滿頭白髮那這樣子的他要怎麼樣去維持到"},{"start":352.583,"end":353.783,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案．一）委員"},{"start":375.526,"end":393.84,"text":"因為你年改之後他們在生活上面他們的支出要縮減一樣會造成另外一個問題除了他們的生活品質影響之外他還有可能會造成社會上面他經濟也會減少經濟減少之後小吃店什麼他們也受損啊因為他們賺不到他們沒有生意做賺不到錢"},{"start":394.7,"end":416.452,"text":"國家也會有問題啊因為他抽不到稅金所以這一連串下來我只國家只告訴人民說我省了多少錢卻沒有告訴人民說這樣的副作用有多少這是我對於這個國家的一些做法我其實不是很認同的地方啦更何況這段時間大家拼命的在延退那延續了剛剛羅志強委員所提到"},{"start":416.952,"end":428.501,"text":"其實這段時間我們國家錯誤的政策造成每年是幾千億的損失以台電來說好了過去兩年就虧了四千億然後還要用國家的錢來補結果剛剛全序部的報告"},{"start":435.171,"end":457.705,"text":"將來如果說要提高警消這些的退休所得的話在到第30年每年才增加60億更何況現在10到19年是增加20多億20到29年增加40多億30年之後才是每年增加60億60億在相比較於現在動不動每年幾千億的"},{"start":459.893,"end":487.01,"text":"這損失我真的不知道我們為什麼不去尊重這些警消我是認為啦就是現在政府給我的感覺是裝醉人叫不行啦然後視而不見的人也很難期待他有良心發現的一天這是我對現在國家的感覺更何況現在CPI變動這麼高你拿之前的那個退休金去讓他們生活其實不是那麼容易啦所以我我一直在思考說這樣下去要怎麼辦"},{"start":488.24,"end":510.827,"text":"那我跟兩位署長報告一件事情我爸爸年輕的時候是警察他是警校52期畢業的所以我小時候住在警察宿舍裡面我住的那警察宿舍在桃園地院旁邊是那桃井新村全部都是一層樓的那個老建築我小時候住在這邊我的鄰居都是警察都是"},{"start":511.767,"end":535.412,"text":"警察局的消防隊都消防員所以我從小對於警消我就覺得是特別尊敬他們因為他們就是我們的鄰居或是我爸爸工作的地方所以我從當警察官到現在我都非常尊敬而且我都很重視這些警察或這些消防我覺得要保護他們的福利我相信署長你一定也有這種認同"},{"start":537.099,"end":563.56,"text":"那我覺得其實我對警察的看法是這樣我覺得國家有難齁如果今天國家財政狀況出問題我相信這些警消會共體事件但是你看這一段時間稅金還超收超收就還要發現金回去給人民然後一堆錯誤的政策那我覺得欸你們好像忘了這些警消這些人付出青春然後拿生命保護我們大家都忘了他們我真的覺得不應該啦齁"},{"start":564.821,"end":565.362,"text":"兩邊開了60幾槍。然後我爸就當天"},{"start":580.06,"end":583.001,"text":"三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議"},{"start":600.169,"end":615.126,"text":"所以我家我爸就說很生氣耶他氣不是氣我公主他氣是氣說你這樣子如果被打到以後這個家怎麼辦所以這就是警察、消防員他們家屬的心情啦所以我很能夠理解這個感覺啦"},{"start":617.338,"end":640.084,"text":"合佩山部長在談到勞保的時候,他說國家撥補就是對於年金的一種改革。合佩山部長他都講過這種話,但是他是對勞工。那你不能說對公務員反而就不在乎這個啦。所以我在請教兩位署長,你到底支不支持我們這一次國民黨"},{"start":641.365,"end":641.886,"text":"二）委員謝龍介等19人擬具"},{"start":662.295,"end":663.557,"text":"兩位組長你也要給我們力量你也要給現職的人"},{"start":673.479,"end":675.3,"text":"條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條"},{"start":696.079,"end":720.616,"text":"這個社會本來就應該給軍警消海巡這些人最高的尊敬而不是像現在這個做法因為他們是拿生命在保護我們的生命所以我希望兩位署長不好意思我昨天動怒了但是我這邊跟你們說聲抱歉但是我還是覺得今天這件事情對警消還有其他人而言是非常重要的一件事那我也希望你們繼續支持我們能夠做這樣的改革謝謝兩位"}]}}}}