{"id":153966,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153966","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba06e0a2b1dbc224aebc65fab1c545da5d04d862afa46997d4e20347047a26059635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:05:49 - 11:19:34","影片長度":"00:13:45","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部政務次長葉丙成列席就「少子化趨勢下高教應如何經營、創新及提升競爭力」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及13日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T11:05:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T11:19:34+08:00","duration":825,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":539,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時5分）主席謝謝，麻煩請葉次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["葉次長丙成：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，您現在也就任快一個月的時間，針對您的出線，一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點，因為您推出翻轉教育理念；但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音，擔憂會不會成為是以網紅流量的思維來辦教育。現在已經經過快一個月的時間，您怎麼樣來翻轉這一些教育團體對你質疑的聲浪？"],["葉次長丙成：剛上任的時候，對於很多事情我覺得大家都有些誤解，比如說大家一直談，好像我常常在談翻轉教學，我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼，跟各位及委員報告，其實我已經有七年沒有談翻轉了，所以跟委員報告，我一直有一個理念，包括之前在參加大學校長遴選的時候我也有提到，王安石式的改革是不會成功的，很多事情不是一下子畢其功於一役，亂翻，所以一開始要先瞭解，很多事情的運作是有它的原因，瞭解之後，我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變，我想這個是穩健去瞭解，再做創新。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以在這個月裡面你有沒有試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通，讓大家知道你在教育路上的一些理念、堅持或是想法？"],["葉次長丙成：有，像我們之前在提這個新五專3+2概念的時候，全教總就有來跟我討論，瞭解這個狀況。透過這樣的溝通，他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的，我想這也是我們未來要努力持續做的事情，跟更多的團體溝通，包括之前我也去國教盟跟適性教育協會協辦的論壇，跟教團、跟家長團體做更多的對話跟交流，我覺得很重要，也是我很樂意，我覺得應該要做的。"],["洪委員孟楷：一定要，不管是我們身為民意代表或是行政官員，其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的，我們要怎麼樣能夠讓未來的學子，以及相對來講所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決，我覺得這是重要的。我想請教一下，現在也看到大家開始在炒作所謂的AI浪潮，認為AI熱潮非常的熱門，但是即便看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法，說面對AI不要焦慮。但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是重理工、輕人文，有看到很多的大學部開始也在增設半導體的教育，甚至大學、政府、企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸，國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程，由高中負責研發課程，現在有10所學校開始試辦，如此會不會讓國內這幾年內的教育現況變成都是以理工，或是以半導體或甚至AI為主？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，我們認為人文是非常非常重要，像過去這兩年家長請我去演講，在談AI之後的人才圖像，我常常在談一件事情，我說AI很會解決問題，但是什麼問題值得解、什麼問題對人很重要，解了以後會創造出很多的價值，這只有人才知道，所以對人文這方面的素養其實是很重要的。也跟委員報告，我們現在看的就是，人文的重要點應該是在於我們認為每一個學生，不管你是念什麼的，不管是電機、資訊或其他，我們覺得都應該有人文這方面的薰陶及素養，所以這也是為什麼我們在專報裡面提到我們有鼓勵大學，已經有很多大學，像臺大、清大、成大都有這種彈性的學制，臺大是讓學生可以選不同的領域專長，比如說，他可以有四個領域專長，然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分，然後他可以懂一點資訊，可以有資訊的領域專長，他可能也選一個心理的領域專長、經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長，這樣子四個領域專長，他就可以拿校學士畢業，其實這樣會讓學生有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己……","也跟委員報告，剛才我前面有分享到，像之前我在臺大的時候，臺大最多學生修的輔系是社會系。所以我們看到其實這樣的概念在大學裡面，我們認為不是只有念人文科系的學生需要有人文，而是我們認為大家都應該要有，所以怎麼樣透過這個彈性學制，這是我們接下來會去推動的，希望更多大學有類似未來大學的這種校學士或是探索學習這樣的……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們現在的主導方向，不管在次長或是部長的領域上，你們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而重理工輕人文，還是會並重，是不是？"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。我們也拉回來，這就牽扯到兩個問題，其實這也是本席特別要提出來的，第一，現在看起來高等教育，就是有一些大專院校因為過去普設大學的狀況，也因此造成倒閉潮。現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史，其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制，甚至有人評估117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉。你已經上任快一個月的時間，你們有沒有針對國內的大專院校去評估，看我們到底需要多少的數額？就是整個大專院校的高等教育，我們需要的學校數量。"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，剛才的那個數據可能有媒體誤植了，就是可能會退場的那40家，不是都是高等教育或是技職，其實還涵蓋了高中職在裡面……"],["洪委員孟楷：但不管怎麼樣，高教已經30年的時間，現在我們看到一百多所的高等教育有可能陸續會有退場機制，我們現在只是想，新的政府、新的教育部，不管是部長，不管是次長，針對這個部分，也有高教改革團體認為應該要開啟高等教育國是會議，你們有沒有去評估過以臺灣2,350萬人未來少子化趨勢的情況下，到底未來這5年內我們需要多少所大專院校？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，其實我們因應到產業，產業現在遇到的挑戰是，臺灣因為少子化，新生兒只有過去的三分之一，所以現在臺灣是非常非常缺人的。所以臺灣除要扮演從以前的高等教育是要訓練自己的學生、自己作為人才的這個角色之外，我們現在賦予另外一個很重要的角色是，我們要去吸收海外的學生來臺灣，把他訓練成人才，而且還能夠讓他願意留在臺灣工作，去補足我們產業到2030年估計的三、四十萬的缺口。所以以這個角度來講……"],["洪委員孟楷：照次長的講法是，現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉、學校關閉？甚至可能還要再增校？"],["葉次長丙成：如果以現在的量能，我們在規劃來講，在2030年我們預計能夠吸收、能夠留臺的學生人數大概是21萬人，這是我們現在一個很重要的使命。所以現在的學校如果體質是好的，其實我們都認為它是有其存在的價值，因為要為臺灣去海外攬才、留才，這是我們現在非常重要……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，有那麼樂觀嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：我們現在看到在新南向……"],["洪委員孟楷：次長，應該這麼講啦！我想請教，你們已經上任快一個月的時間，有沒有考慮過應該要呼籲針對高等教育來召開國是會議，或是建議總統來召開國是會議？"],["葉次長丙成：部長的……因為我們目前……"],["洪委員孟楷：您自己的想法是什麼？"],["葉次長丙成：其實我們現在已經有很多機制是可以廣納大家對高教的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你認為不需要？"],["葉次長丙成：我們有這些大學校長會議，還有很多相關的機制，如果這些機制還不夠的話，當然我們就要再研議看有沒有要來做這樣的事情，但是目前我們其實還是就我們目前的這些機制……"],["洪委員孟楷：是嗎？因為這些機制過去就已經二、三十年了，所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題，或是說為什麼一直有人倡議，認為現在是一個里程碑，未來我們當然也希望臺灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得享譽國際，願意有其他的學子進來，但是畢竟以過去看到數字來講，是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛！也因此本席才會點出這個問題，不管你剛剛講是媒體的誤植或是大家估算的基準不同，但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉，這也是曾經報導過嘛！"],["葉次長丙成：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：另一個部分是學習歷程檔案，你之前有提過，對於學習歷程檔案，大家也認為是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性？我記得你那時候認為學習歷程檔案反而是可以讓大家相對更公平，可是也有人講到，為什麼常常會看到有人在販售學習歷程檔案？我們已經不只一次點出來，每年都點出來一樣的狀況。針對這個部分，今年來不及了，明年要怎麼樣來預防，或是說明年真的能夠讓大家知道學習歷程檔案不是用錢買、臨時抱佛腳就可以了，這要怎麼改善？"],["葉次長丙成：報告委員，我覺得一些相關的配套是我們可以再來努力的，比如說，怎麼樣讓更多同學在高一剛入學的時候能夠瞭解學習歷程到底是怎麼一回事、大家怎麼做這個東西，雖然過去我們有做一些教材，像作伙學，有手冊給每個同學，但是可能只有書面不見得夠……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有信心？因為您剛上任，今年9月高二升高三的同學、這一屆的同學在教育部的說明、思考、討論之下，有沒有信心讓他們在明年要申請學校、拿出學習歷程檔案的時候，能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買？也讓坊間意圖想要販賣的商機可以消除，而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育常態？"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，這個我們會來努力，但我也必須分享一件事情，有些時候這不只是學生的問題，有時候是家長，因為有時候是家長對這個事情的焦慮，家長也是愛子心切嘛，就覺得他花這個錢……"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊，所以次長，我現在就是以家長的角度，您可能也是家長，我不知道您的小朋友的年紀多大，抱歉！因為我沒有探詢您個人的隱私，但一樣嘛！如果有家長會有這樣的焦慮、有同學會有這樣的焦慮；有些時候是學生看到別的學生都去買；或是都有這樣的事情，回去拜託家長讓他不要輸在起跑點上；有些則是家長求好心切；有些可能是一個班級的風氣，這就有賴教育部去說明，而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後，然後告訴大家說：這個就是家長的問題、這個就是學生的問題。"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以過去沒有解決的狀況，因為我們每年差不多4月、5月來質詢的時候都會講到，而且每年4月、5月的時候，都會看到坊間有這樣的販售，一樣嘛！現在您已經上任了，新的政府、新的教育部部長、次長，我們怎麼樣能夠真的從根本來解決這個問題？在明年4月、5月的時候，不要再讓我們委員、不要再讓國會再討論這樣的議題。"],["葉次長丙成：跟委員報告，所以我們現在要做的事情，我們現在已經在規劃，在會期結束之後，因為我們之前4、5年前有所謂的國教宣講，但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情，就是每年都有新生的家長，都有新的家長……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯。"],["葉次長丙成：接下來在會期結束後，包括我自己跟張廖次長，我們都會跳下去，看怎麼樣去各地跟家長宣講……"],["洪委員孟楷：全臺宣講。"],["葉次長丙成：讓大家更瞭解這個事情是不需要焦慮的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以不只有政黨現在在規劃全臺宣講，教育部也可以，其實我覺得這是好事，這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷。我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法，我們就一起努力，希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態，讓大家用3年的時間去累積多采多姿、豐富的人生經驗，而不是高三的時候才來臨時抱佛腳，也不是做得漂漂亮亮、印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程，也不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程。所以規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明，這個計畫什麼時候可以出來？"],["葉次長丙成：我們回去再去擬，我們預計7月中會期結束之後會開始……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，也再請提供本席以及教育及文化委員會的委員一份，好嗎？"],["葉次長丙成：好，謝謝。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":334,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-16","speakers":["柯志恩","萬美玲","林倩綺","葛如鈞","葉元之","陳秀寳","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","羅廷瑋","郭昱晴","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張雅琳","賴士葆","林思銘","陳亭妃","翁曉玲","范雲","羅智強","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","吳春城"],"page_start":273,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部政務次長葉丙成列席就「少子化趨勢下高教應如何經營、創新及提升競爭力」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"153966","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153966","tool":"pyannote","id":"153966-pyannote"},"job_id":"67PwSGDNwobIALtt","queued_at":"2024-06-13 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\"所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 544.833, \"end\": 544.913, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 544.913, \"end\": 545.013, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 545.013, \"end\": 545.173, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 545.173, \"end\": 545.333, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 545.333, \"end\": 545.594, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 545.594, \"end\": 545.714, \"score\": 0.604}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 545.714, \"end\": 546.254, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 546.254, \"end\": 546.614, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 546.614, \"end\": 546.815, 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00:00:58,278\n嗯,就是,我跟你講這裡面齁,因為剛上任的時候,其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解,比如說大家一直談說,欸,好像我常常在談翻轉教學,我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼,結果跟委員報告,其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了。嗯。\n\n4\n00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:29,382\n所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨選都會提到說王安時事的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是一下子避其共一役亂翻所以我想這個一開始要先了解這些很多事情它現在運作是有它的原因的了解之後我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變我想這個是穩健的這個做去了解再做創新\n\n5\n00:01:29,602 --> 00:01:53,843\n所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的\n\n6\n00:01:54,343 --> 00:01:54,423\n主席\n\n7\n00:02:15,669 --> 00:02:38,100\n一定要,因為本期不管是我們身為民意代表或是說行政官員其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們未來的學子以及相對來講我們的所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決,我覺得這是重要所以我想請教一下,現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮\n\n8\n00:02:39,481 --> 00:03:03,618\n會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸\n\n9\n00:03:04,478 --> 00:03:22,114\n國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主\n\n10\n00:03:23,014 --> 00:03:23,214\n主席\n\n11\n00:03:44,847 --> 00:03:44,947\n主席\n\n12\n00:04:02,967 --> 00:04:06,192\n此外,我們在大學的專報提到我們有在鼓勵已經很多大學像臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生可以選擇不同的領域專長比如說它可以有四個領域專長\n\n13\n00:04:18,570 --> 00:04:46,673\n然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系\n\n14\n00:04:47,674 --> 00:04:47,694\n韓國瑜\n\n15\n00:04:58,404 --> 00:05:03,828\n所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文\n\n16\n00:05:21,722 --> 00:05:38,513\n還是會病重?是不是?好那我們也拉回來這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此這樣說這個倒閉槽\n\n17\n00:05:41,976 --> 00:06:05,557\n現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉我們現在到底有沒有已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的\n\n18\n00:06:06,118 --> 00:06:06,238\n主席主席\n\n19\n00:06:29,224 --> 00:06:46,808\n高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國是論壇啊\n\n20\n00:06:50,269 --> 00:07:10,886\n我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的\n\n21\n00:07:11,346 --> 00:07:35,603\n所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話\n\n22\n00:07:36,323 --> 00:07:42,108\n所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校\n\n23\n00:07:42,824 --> 00:07:43,264\n市長有那麼樂觀嗎?\n\n24\n00:08:14,819 --> 00:08:26,965\n市長應該這麼講啦我想請教就說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇?您自己的想法是什麼?\n\n25\n00:08:37,833 --> 00:09:04,473\n因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了\n\n26\n00:09:04,833 --> 00:09:30,613\n所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同\n\n27\n00:09:30,913 --> 00:09:48,116\n但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以\n\n28\n00:09:49,785 --> 00:10:13,503\n讓大家相對更公平可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時報佛腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善\n\n29\n00:10:13,683 --> 00:10:14,723\n有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年9月\n\n30\n00:10:43,556 --> 00:11:07,461\n高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態\n\n31\n00:11:08,063 --> 00:11:10,005\n市長我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個\n\n32\n00:11:26,943 --> 00:11:44,305\n小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切\n\n33\n00:11:45,006 --> 00:12:11,214\n那有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了\n\n34\n00:12:12,208 --> 00:12:35,190\n新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的\n\n35\n00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:35,410\n主席\n\n36\n00:12:53,326 --> 00:13:21,083\n這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以\n\n37\n00:13:22,894 --> 00:13:41,683\n規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8257\t8939\t主席謝謝麻煩請葉次長好請次長謝謝\n14284\t42996\t委員好市長針對您的出現現在也就任快一個月的時間一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點因為您推出這個翻轉教育理念但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音擔憂會不會成為是這個網紅流量的思維來辦教育那現在快一個月的時間您怎麼樣來翻轉這一些教育團體對你的質疑的聲浪\n44093\t58278\t嗯,就是,我跟你講這裡面齁,因為剛上任的時候,其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解,比如說大家一直談說,欸,好像我常常在談翻轉教學,我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼,結果跟委員報告,其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了。嗯。\n59719\t89382\t所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨選都會提到說王安時事的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是一下子避其共一役亂翻所以我想這個一開始要先了解這些很多事情它現在運作是有它的原因的了解之後我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變我想這個是穩健的這個做去了解再做創新\n89602\t113843\t所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的\n114343\t114423\t主席\n135669\t158100\t一定要,因為本期不管是我們身為民意代表或是說行政官員其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們未來的學子以及相對來講我們的所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決,我覺得這是重要所以我想請教一下,現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮\n159481\t183618\t會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸\n184478\t202114\t國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主\n203014\t203214\t主席\n224847\t224947\t主席\n242967\t246192\t此外,我們在大學的專報提到我們有在鼓勵已經很多大學像臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生可以選擇不同的領域專長比如說它可以有四個領域專長\n258570\t286673\t然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系\n287674\t287694\t韓國瑜\n298404\t303828\t所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文\n321722\t338513\t還是會病重?是不是?好 那我們也拉回來這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此這樣說這個倒閉槽\n341976\t365557\t現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉我們現在到底有沒有已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的\n366118\t366238\t主席主席\n389224\t406808\t高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國是論壇啊\n410269\t430886\t我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的\n431346\t455603\t所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話\n456323\t462108\t所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校\n462824\t463264\t市長有那麼樂觀嗎?\n494819\t506965\t市長應該這麼講啦 我想請教就說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇?您自己的想法是什麼?\n517833\t544473\t因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了\n544833\t570613\t所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同\n570913\t588116\t但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以\n589785\t613503\t讓大家相對更公平可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時報佛腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善\n613683\t614723\t有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年9月\n643556\t667461\t高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態\n668063\t670005\t市長我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個\n686943\t704305\t小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切\n705006\t731214\t那有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了\n732208\t755190\t新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的\n755230\t755410\t主席\n773326\t801083\t這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以\n802894\t821683\t規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請葉次長好請次長謝謝\n委員好市長針對您的出現現在也就任快一個月的時間一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點因為您推出這個翻轉教育理念但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音擔憂會不會成為是這個網紅流量的思維來辦教育那現在快一個月的時間您怎麼樣來翻轉這一些教育團體對你的質疑的聲浪\n嗯,就是,我跟你講這裡面齁,因為剛上任的時候,其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解,比如說大家一直談說,欸,好像我常常在談翻轉教學,我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼,結果跟委員報告,其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了。嗯。\n所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨選都會提到說王安時事的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是一下子避其共一役亂翻所以我想這個一開始要先了解這些很多事情它現在運作是有它的原因的了解之後我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變我想這個是穩健的這個做去了解再做創新\n所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的\n主席\n一定要,因為本期不管是我們身為民意代表或是說行政官員其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們未來的學子以及相對來講我們的所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決,我覺得這是重要所以我想請教一下,現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮\n會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸\n國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主\n主席\n主席\n此外,我們在大學的專報提到我們有在鼓勵已經很多大學像臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生可以選擇不同的領域專長比如說它可以有四個領域專長\n然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系\n韓國瑜\n所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文\n還是會病重?是不是?好 那我們也拉回來這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此這樣說這個倒閉槽\n現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉我們現在到底有沒有已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的\n主席主席\n高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國是論壇啊\n我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的\n所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話\n所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校\n市長有那麼樂觀嗎?\n市長應該這麼講啦 我想請教就說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇?您自己的想法是什麼?\n因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了\n所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同\n但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以\n讓大家相對更公平可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時報佛腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善\n有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年9月\n高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態\n市長我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個\n小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切\n那有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了\n新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的\n主席\n這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以\n規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.257 --> 00:08.939\n主席謝謝麻煩請葉次長好請次長謝謝\n\n00:14.284 --> 00:42.996\n委員好市長針對您的出現現在也就任快一個月的時間一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點因為您推出這個翻轉教育理念但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音擔憂會不會成為是這個網紅流量的思維來辦教育那現在快一個月的時間您怎麼樣來翻轉這一些教育團體對你的質疑的聲浪\n\n00:44.093 --> 00:58.278\n嗯,就是,我跟你講這裡面齁,因為剛上任的時候,其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解,比如說大家一直談說,欸,好像我常常在談翻轉教學,我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼,結果跟委員報告,其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了。嗯。\n\n00:59.719 --> 01:29.382\n所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨選都會提到說王安時事的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是一下子避其共一役亂翻所以我想這個一開始要先了解這些很多事情它現在運作是有它的原因的了解之後我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變我想這個是穩健的這個做去了解再做創新\n\n01:29.602 --> 01:53.843\n所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的\n\n01:54.343 --> 01:54.423\n主席\n\n02:15.669 --> 02:38.100\n一定要,因為本期不管是我們身為民意代表或是說行政官員其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們未來的學子以及相對來講我們的所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決,我覺得這是重要所以我想請教一下,現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮\n\n02:39.481 --> 03:03.618\n會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸\n\n03:04.478 --> 03:22.114\n國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主\n\n03:23.014 --> 03:23.214\n主席\n\n03:44.847 --> 03:44.947\n主席\n\n04:02.967 --> 04:06.192\n此外,我們在大學的專報提到我們有在鼓勵已經很多大學像臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生可以選擇不同的領域專長比如說它可以有四個領域專長\n\n04:18.570 --> 04:46.673\n然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系\n\n04:47.674 --> 04:47.694\n韓國瑜\n\n04:58.404 --> 05:03.828\n所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文\n\n05:21.722 --> 05:38.513\n還是會病重?是不是?好那我們也拉回來這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此這樣說這個倒閉槽\n\n05:41.976 --> 06:05.557\n現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉我們現在到底有沒有已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的\n\n06:06.118 --> 06:06.238\n主席主席\n\n06:29.224 --> 06:46.808\n高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國是論壇啊\n\n06:50.269 --> 07:10.886\n我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的\n\n07:11.346 --> 07:35.603\n所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話\n\n07:36.323 --> 07:42.108\n所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校\n\n07:42.824 --> 07:43.264\n市長有那麼樂觀嗎?\n\n08:14.819 --> 08:26.965\n市長應該這麼講啦我想請教就說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇?您自己的想法是什麼?\n\n08:37.833 --> 09:04.473\n因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了\n\n09:04.833 --> 09:30.613\n所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同\n\n09:30.913 --> 09:48.116\n但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以\n\n09:49.785 --> 10:13.503\n讓大家相對更公平可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時報佛腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善\n\n10:13.683 --> 10:14.723\n有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年9月\n\n10:43.556 --> 11:07.461\n高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態\n\n11:08.063 --> 11:10.005\n市長我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個\n\n11:26.943 --> 11:44.305\n小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切\n\n11:45.006 --> 12:11.214\n那有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了\n\n12:12.208 --> 12:35.190\n新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的\n\n12:35.230 --> 12:35.410\n主席\n\n12:53.326 --> 13:21.083\n這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以\n\n13:22.894 --> 13:41.683\n規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.257,"end":8.939,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請葉次長好請次長謝謝"},{"start":14.284,"end":42.996,"text":"委員好市長針對您的出現現在也就任快一個月的時間一開始的時候有些人認為是亮點因為您推出這個翻轉教育理念但是也看到媒體有一些教團的聲音擔憂會不會成為是這個網紅流量的思維來辦教育那現在快一個月的時間您怎麼樣來翻轉這一些教育團體對你的質疑的聲浪"},{"start":44.093,"end":58.278,"text":"嗯,就是,我跟你講這裡面齁,因為剛上任的時候,其實很多這些事情我覺得大家都有些誤解,比如說大家一直談說,欸,好像我常常在談翻轉教學,我們就要再翻轉或是幹什麼,結果跟委員報告,其實我已經有7年沒有談翻轉了。嗯。"},{"start":59.719,"end":89.382,"text":"所以其實跟委員報告我一直一個理念就是報告之前在參加大學校長臨選都會提到說王安時事的改革是不會成功的很多事情就是真的要真的不是一下子避其共一役亂翻所以我想這個一開始要先了解這些很多事情它現在運作是有它的原因的了解之後我們再看還有沒有一些地方是我們可以透過創新來做改變我想這個是穩健的這個做去了解再做創新"},{"start":89.602,"end":113.843,"text":"所以在這個月裡面有沒有也試著跟這些教育團體來做溝通讓大家知道說你的這個在教育路上的一些理念堅持或是想法有,包括像我們之前在提這個新武專3加2這個概念的時候那像全教長就來跟我這邊來討論了解這個狀況那我想這個透過這樣的溝通他們本來的一些擔心或疑慮其實就消除了蠻多的"},{"start":114.343,"end":114.423,"text":"主席"},{"start":135.669,"end":158.1,"text":"一定要,因為本期不管是我們身為民意代表或是說行政官員其實現在越來越重要的就是教育是大家的我們要怎麼樣能夠讓我們未來的學子以及相對來講我們的所有過去面臨到的問題能夠獲得一些解決,我覺得這是重要所以我想請教一下,現在也看到大家開始在炒作這所謂的AI浪潮"},{"start":159.481,"end":183.618,"text":"會認為是說AI熱潮非常的這個熱門但是即便有看到次長你在臉書上有發表看法說面對AI不要焦慮但是現在學術界好像也有一個狀況是眾理工親人文有看到很多的這個大學部開始也在增設這個半導體的教育甚至大學政府企業也將半導體的教育向下延伸"},{"start":184.478,"end":202.114,"text":"國教署也會補助高中職實施半導體的課程由高中負責研發課程現在有10所學校開始試辦那會不會再讓國內可能這幾年內的這樣的一個教育的一個現況變成是說都是以理工或是以半導體或甚至AI這樣子來為主"},{"start":203.014,"end":203.214,"text":"主席"},{"start":224.847,"end":224.947,"text":"主席"},{"start":242.967,"end":246.192,"text":"此外,我們在大學的專報提到我們有在鼓勵已經很多大學像臺大、清大、成大有這種彈性的學制讓學生可以選擇不同的領域專長比如說它可以有四個領域專長"},{"start":258.57,"end":286.673,"text":"然後每個領域專長大概就十幾到二十學分然後他可以懂一點資訊他可以有資訊的領域專長那他也可以選一個心理的領域專長跟經濟的領域專長跟社會的領域專長他這樣子四個領域專長他就可以拿校學試畢業那這樣子的話其實就讓學生覺得他有更多的彈性可以組合出他自己也跟委員報告剛才我前面有分享到就是說像之前我在台大的時候台大最多學生修的輔系是社會系"},{"start":287.674,"end":287.694,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":298.404,"end":303.828,"text":"所以在我們現在的一個主導方向不管是次長不管是現在部長的一個領域上我們還是會承諾不會因為現在的AI熱潮或是半導體熱潮而眾理公親人文"},{"start":321.722,"end":338.513,"text":"還是會病重?是不是?好 那我們也拉回來這就牽扯到兩個問題其實這也是本席這邊特別要來提出來一一是現在看起來高等教育就是有一些大專院校他其實因為過去普赦大學的狀況也因此這樣說這個倒閉槽"},{"start":341.976,"end":365.557,"text":"現在預估今年7月底會有15間大專院校走入歷史其中有13所還是專科申辦或是改制甚至有人評估說117學年會有40所大專院校倒閉我們現在到底有沒有已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有去針對我們國內的大專院校到底去評估說我們到底有多少的這個數額是需要的"},{"start":366.118,"end":366.238,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":389.224,"end":406.808,"text":"高教已經30年的一個時間那現在我們看到說一百多所的一個高等教育他有可能陸續會有這個退場機制是那我們現在只想是說新的政府新的教育部不管是部長不管是次長針對這部分也有叫高教改革團體認為是說應該要開啟高等教育國是論壇啊"},{"start":410.269,"end":430.886,"text":"我們到底有沒有去評估過說我們台灣以2350萬人未來少子化的一個趨勢的情況到底未來這五年內我們需要的是多少所大專院校跟委員報告因為其實我們現在因應到現在產業產業現在遇到的挑戰是台灣因為少子化我們現在新生的只有過去的三分之一所以我們現在台灣是非常非常缺人的"},{"start":431.346,"end":455.603,"text":"所以台灣的從以前的高等教育我們是要訓練自己的學生自己做人才這個角色之外我們現在賦予另外很重要的一個角色是我們要去吸收海外的這個學生來台灣把他訓練成人才而且還能夠讓他願意留在台灣工作去補足我們現在產業的這個到2030年估計有大概三四十萬的缺口所以以這個角度來講的話"},{"start":456.323,"end":462.108,"text":"所以趙次長的講法是現在我們的高等教育可能還不用倒閉學校關閉可能還要再增校"},{"start":462.824,"end":463.264,"text":"市長有那麼樂觀嗎?"},{"start":494.819,"end":506.965,"text":"市長應該這麼講啦 我想請教就說到底現在已經上任快一個月的時間有沒有考慮過說應該要呼籲來針對高等教育要召開國師論壇或說建議總統來召開國師論壇?您自己的想法是什麼?"},{"start":517.833,"end":544.473,"text":"因為我們其實在這個我們其實現在已經有很多的機制是可以廣納大家對這個高教的意見所以您認為不需要?所以我們就有這些大學校長會議還有很多這些機制所以如果這些機制還不夠的話那當然我們就會再研議這個有沒有要來做這樣的事情但目前我們其實還是以就我們目前這些機制是嗎?因為這些機制過去就已經二三十年了"},{"start":544.833,"end":570.613,"text":"所以本席為什麼會提出這個問題或說為什麼一直有人倡議就是認為是說現在是一個里程碑未來我們當然也希望是說台灣的辦學能夠讓海內外也覺得說享譽國際願意有其他的學子進來但是畢竟沒有那麼以過去看到的數字來講是沒有那麼樂觀的嘛因此本席才會點出來這個問題不管你剛剛講是說是媒體的物質或說大家的一個估算的一個基準不同"},{"start":570.913,"end":588.116,"text":"但是117年恐會有40所大專院校倒閉這也是曾經報導過嘛那另外另外一部分是學習歷程檔案你之前有提過就學習歷程檔案大家也認為是說是不是應該有再調整的空間跟必要性但我記得你那時候認為是學習歷程檔案反而是可以"},{"start":589.785,"end":613.503,"text":"讓大家相對更公平可是也有人講到是說為什麼會學習歷程檔案裡面常常就看到我們已經不止一次點出來了每年都點出來一樣的狀況就是學習歷程檔案是有人來做販售的針對這個部分今年來不及了明年怎麼樣來預防或說明年真的能夠讓大家知道說學習歷程檔案不是用錢買臨時報佛腳就可以了這樣怎麼改善"},{"start":613.683,"end":614.723,"text":"有沒有信心因為現在您剛上任嘛那今年9月"},{"start":643.556,"end":667.461,"text":"高二升高三的同學這一屆的同學能夠在我們教育部的說明思考討論之下能夠讓他們在明年要申請學校的時候拿出學習歷程檔案的時候有信心能夠讓同學不要再去坊間購買也不要讓坊間意圖想要購買的這些販賣的這些商機可以消除而是回歸到我們一開始推出來的教育的常態"},{"start":668.063,"end":670.005,"text":"市長我現在就是以您可能也是家長我不知道說您的這個"},{"start":686.943,"end":704.305,"text":"小朋友年紀多大啦抱歉我沒有探尋您個人隱私但一樣嘛如果說有家長會有這樣的焦慮有同學會有這樣的焦慮有些時候是學生他一看到別人學生都去買或是都有這樣的事情回去拜託家長那我不要輸在起跑點上那有些是家長求好心切"},{"start":705.006,"end":731.214,"text":"那有一些更是說可能是一個班級的一個風氣那這就有賴我們教育部去說明啊而不是教育部設計了一個規則之後然後告訴說這個就是家長的問題這個就是學生的問題所以過去沒有解決的狀況因為我們每年差不多4月5月來質詢的時候都會講到而且每年4月5月的時候都會看到坊間就有這樣的一個販售那一樣嘛現在您已經上任了"},{"start":732.208,"end":755.19,"text":"新的政府新的教育部部長次長我們怎麼樣真的能夠根本來解決這問題在明年的4月5月的時候不要再讓我們委員不要再讓國會再討論這樣的一個議題跟委員報告我們現在要做的事情我們現在已經在規劃就是說在會期結束之後因為我們之前有所謂的國教宣講四五年前但是我覺得我們忽略一件事情是每年都有新生的家長都有新的"},{"start":755.23,"end":755.41,"text":"主席"},{"start":773.326,"end":801.083,"text":"這就是本席一開始提出來的初衷我認為既然部長、次長已經有這樣的想法我們一起努力希望讓大家都能夠把學習歷程回歸到常態大家用三年的時間去累積多彩多姿豐富的人生經驗而不是高三的時候才來臨時報佛腳也不是說做得漂漂亮亮印彩色列印就是好的學習歷程不是上網填寫就是好的學習歷程所以"},{"start":802.894,"end":821.683,"text":"規劃全縣市的宣講並且說明這個計劃什麼時候可以出來我們就是好我們回去再去擬我們大概就預計7月中會期結束之後好那也再請提供本席及我們教育文化委員會委員一份好嗎謝謝好謝謝"}]}}}}