{"id":153972,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153972","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0c0c38839b5509d568ff7e0bc1ebc50214d862afa46997d4e3a001556f561b11a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"11:24:33 - 11:32:09","影片長度":"00:07:36","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T11:24:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T11:32:09+08:00","duration":456,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時24分）麻煩有請人事行政總處的李副人事長。"],["主席：麻煩請副人事長。"],["翁委員曉玲：還有銓敘部的張次長。"],["主席：請張次長。"],["翁委員曉玲：今天是針對有關於警消人員的退撫年改要進行修正，看了人事行政總處及銓敘部所做的報告說明，基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改，我還記得我之前質詢人事總處的時候，曾經問過人事總長一件事情，就是軍公教、警消、司法人員工作型態差異很大，尤其是軍公教，這三個完全是不同的領域，然後再加上警消，其實本來就應該要有不同的俸給、福利和退撫制度，也各自有各自的相關規範法規，可是為什麼每一次只要談到年改年金的時候，一定要公教合併？今天談到警消人員的問題，就凸顯出把公務人員涵蓋到警消人員，其實工作性質顯不相當，基本上差異很大，我想請問人事總處，有沒有就這部分去思考過？還有，我上次其實已經提醒過，你們到底有沒有著手去將這些不同工作類型的公務人員分開，然後各自有各自的福利及退撫保障？"],["李副人事長秉洲：跟委員報告，軍公教本來就是軍的體系就有一套，然後公教分途，教也自行有一套，那另外的公務人員的部分就是有自行一套，警消就是在我們的公務人員的範圍裡面，我們的公務人員一般用的普通法叫公務人員任用法，公務人員任用法裡面有一條是特種人事制度，像警消這方面的警察人員條例，但是身分別還是公務人員。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，這就是我們在講的，就是希望人事總處這邊可以與時俱進，要去檢討現在公務人員任用條例裡面的相關規定，明明我們就知道警消的工作性質其實是介於軍人跟一般文職公務員之間，他們的工作特性、勞務性質其實是跟一般的文職公務員是不一樣的，這也是為什麼今天警消人員希望能夠多爭取他們的一些福利，本席基本上是支持，應該要強化多保障警消人員的福利待遇及退撫，可是就可以發現，其實我們政府的思維始終還是停留在六十年前對於廣義公務員的思維，可是現在的情形已經不一樣，時代在改變，我覺得釜底抽薪的做法就是應該要將公教人員更細分，尤其是公務人員這個部分，應該要更細分。本席希望人事總處或銓敘部可以好好去檢討這個制度，不曉得有沒有可能，你們近期會提出相關的法案來進行檢討嗎？"],["張次長秋元：我來跟翁委員報告一下，其實我們現在的制度其實就是翁委員剛剛講的、翁委員期待的，現行的制度就是這樣規劃，比如說，剛才有報告，警消俸級的設計，在前端的時候就跟同等級的公務員其實是不一樣的，從警佐三階、二階、一階到警正四階，像警正四階相當於六職等，但它的俸級結構的設計是已經到達一般公務員的八職等的年功頂，它是高二個，所以當然是我們對警消的重視。"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝次長您剛剛說明，既然俸給制度已經不一樣了，退撫制度當然也應該不一樣……"],["張次長秋元：不一樣，所以他退休會多一萬塊。同等級，他跟一般公務員比，因為之前繳費就高嘛，所以是不一樣的，不一樣的。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，瞭解。那現在的情況就是說，現在退休之後的所得替代率是一樣的，在這樣一致的情況之下，會造成大家覺得不太公平。我希望這個部分其實應該還是要去做更細緻的檢討。","另外，我還想請教一個問題，我想兩位也知道，我們立法院也提出了公教人員的年改法案，預期可能也會通過，我不知道現在銓敘部和人事總處有沒有預做準備，如果我們的法案通過之後，那麼之前逐年下降的所得替代率就會停止下降，你們現在準備好了嗎？"],["張次長秋元：我們在委託精算當中，但是這個可以預期的就是對財務的衝擊會很大。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以你們現在有在做準備嘛？如果考慮到公務人員的留才和保障公務人員的辛勞等等，我覺得這樣的一個改革，基本上是有必要，有意義的。","另外，有關海巡人員，現在是分三類，有軍人，有警察，還有一般的文職人員，他們目前是不是各自適用各自的退撫制度？他們的薪資應該是依照各自的職務類型。"],["張次長秋元：跟委員報告，現在退撫只有三大塊，一個是軍人，一個是公務人員，一個是教育人員，所有的公務人員就是在同一個區塊。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是海巡署裡面屬於軍人身分的……"],["張次長秋元：軍人就是用軍人的。"],["翁委員曉玲：軍人適用軍人的退撫嘛，警察還是適用公務人員的嘛？"],["張次長秋元：警察跟一般公務人員就是適用公務人員的。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，對。那如果說，就這個部分的話，確實可能我們這次修法通過的話，要針對海巡人員這樣比較特殊的機關，它的人員性質的不同，我認為說他們的退撫制度其實還是要有所區別。"],["張次長秋元：對，我的意見跟委員有點類似，就像消防人員，剛剛蕭署長也有講到，他們也有一般公務人員，不是全部都是警察人員，這個區隔下去以後，一樣是消防人員，可能領的又不一樣，這個其實我們很難對他們做說明。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，了解，就是說，因為你們基本上是反對警消人員的年改。"],["張次長秋元：不是，我們是建議維持現制。"],["翁委員曉玲：我希望你們也能夠提出一個更積極、更有建設性的替代方案，假設你們認為這樣子的修改是不合理的話，那至少要區別出警消人員是跟一般文職公務員是不一樣的，他們可能是介於軍人跟公務員之間，那麼比較合理的所得替代率是什麼？我希望你們可以儘速提出來相關的建議方案，好不好？好，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位我們請林思銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 434.716, \"score\": 0.288}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 434.716, \"end\": 434.736, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,484 --> 00:00:20,517\n麻煩有請人事行政總署的李副司長麻煩請副司長還有權敘部的張次長好了\n\n2\n00:00:28,091 --> 00:00:46,969\n今天是針對有關於警消人員的退府年改要進行修正。看了人事行政總處以及全序部這邊所做的報告說明,基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改。\n\n3\n00:00:47,509 --> 00:01:12,800\n那麼我還記得我在之前的這個執行人事總處的時候我曾經有問過處長一件事情人事總長一件事情就是軍公教警消司法人員其實這些工作型態差異很大尤其是軍公教這三個完全是不同的領域然後再加上警消其實本來就應該要有不同的奉給福利和退府制度\n\n4\n00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,501\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．委員\n\n5\n00:01:28,750 --> 00:01:30,911\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三三草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n6\n00:01:59,116 --> 00:02:25,988\n跟委員報告軍公教本來軍就是軍的體系就一套公教分圖教也自行一套那另外的公務人員部分就是自行一套所以警消就是在我們的公務人員的範圍裡面我們公務人員一般是用的普通法叫公務人任用法公務人任用法裡面有一條是特種人事制度就是警消這方面的警察人但是他身分別還是公務人員\n\n7\n00:02:26,573 --> 00:02:45,435\n是這件事我們在講就是這個也是希望人事總書這邊可以與時俱進要去檢討現在公務人員任用條例裡面的相關規定明明我們就知道警消的工作的性質他其實是介於軍人跟公務員一般文職公務員之間那他的工作的特性他的勞務的性質\n\n8\n00:02:46,656 --> 00:03:07,550\n其實是跟一般的文職的公務員是不一樣的那麼這也是為什麼今天警消人員希望能夠多爭取他們的一些福利那本席基本上是支持應該要強化多保障警消人員的福利待遇以及他的退福可是呢就可以發現其實我們的政府的思維始終還是停留在這個可能60年前對於這種廣義公務員的這個思維可是現在的情形已經不一樣時代在改變\n\n9\n00:03:17,216 --> 00:03:25,002\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等27人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．一）委員\n\n10\n00:03:47,734 --> 00:04:11,528\n我來跟國務委員報告一下其實我們現在的制度其實就是國務委員剛剛講的國務委員期待的就是現行的制度就是這樣規劃譬如說剛剛其實有報告就是警消他的這個縫級的設計在前端的時候就跟同等級的公務員其實是不一樣的他從那個警左三階二階一階到警正四階\n\n11\n00:04:12,489 --> 00:04:13,730\n警察人員人事條例三草案案\n\n12\n00:04:34,601 --> 00:04:36,362\n三草案．立法院提出公教人員年改法案\n\n13\n00:05:03,473 --> 00:05:05,755\n二）委員余琦等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例修正第三\n\n14\n00:05:28,911 --> 00:05:30,252\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n15\n00:05:58,539 --> 00:06:25,085\n是依照各自的這個職務的類型跟委員報告現在退幅只有三大塊一個是軍人一個是公務人員一個是教育人員那所有的公務人員就是在同一個區塊但是那軍人海巡署裡面的屬於軍人身份的人他使用軍人嗎那說警察還是使用公務人員嗎警察跟一般公務人員就是使用公務人員\n\n16\n00:06:25,685 --> 00:06:51,847\n對對那如果說就這個部分的話確實可能我們這次修法如果通過的話要在這個針對像海巡人員這樣比較特殊的機關他的人員性質的不同我認為說其實還是要有所區別了他們的退伏制度我的意見跟委員有點類似就像消防人員剛剛蕭署長也有講到他沒有一般公務人員不是全部都是警察人員這個區隔下去以後會一樣是消防消防人員他可能領留不一樣\n\n17\n00:06:52,568 --> 00:06:52,708\n二）委員\n\n18\n00:07:08,712 --> 00:07:14,736\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9484\t20517\t麻煩有請人事行政總署的李副司長麻煩請副司長還有權敘部的張次長好了\n28091\t46969\t今天是針對有關於警消人員的退府年改要進行修正。看了人事行政總處以及全序部這邊所做的報告說明,基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改。\n47509\t72800\t那麼我還記得我在之前的這個執行人事總處的時候我曾經有問過處長一件事情人事總長一件事情就是軍公教警消司法人員其實這些工作型態差異很大尤其是軍公教這三個完全是不同的領域然後再加上警消其實本來就應該要有不同的奉給福利和退府制度\n73080\t74501\t條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．委員\n88750\t90911\t二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三三草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n119116\t145988\t跟委員報告軍公教本來軍就是軍的體系就一套公教分圖教也自行一套那另外的公務人員部分就是自行一套所以警消就是在我們的公務人員的範圍裡面我們公務人員一般是用的普通法叫公務人任用法公務人任用法裡面有一條是特種人事制度就是警消這方面的警察人但是他身分別還是公務人員\n146573\t165435\t是這件事我們在講就是這個也是希望人事總書這邊可以與時俱進要去檢討現在公務人員任用條例裡面的相關規定明明我們就知道警消的工作的性質他其實是介於軍人跟公務員一般文職公務員之間那他的工作的特性他的勞務的性質\n166656\t187550\t其實是跟一般的文職的公務員是不一樣的那麼這也是為什麼今天警消人員希望能夠多爭取他們的一些福利那本席基本上是支持應該要強化多保障警消人員的福利待遇以及他的退福可是呢就可以發現其實我們的政府的思維始終還是停留在這個可能60年前對於這種廣義公務員的這個思維可是現在的情形已經不一樣時代在改變\n197216\t205002\t三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等27人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．一）委員\n227734\t251528\t我來跟國務委員報告一下其實我們現在的制度其實就是國務委員剛剛講的國務委員期待的就是現行的制度就是這樣規劃譬如說剛剛其實有報告就是警消他的這個縫級的設計在前端的時候就跟同等級的公務員其實是不一樣的他從那個警左三階二階一階到警正四階\n252489\t253730\t警察人員人事條例三草案案\n274601\t276362\t三草案．立法院提出公教人員年改法案\n303473\t305755\t二）委員余琦等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例修正第三\n328911\t330252\t條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n358539\t385085\t是依照各自的這個職務的類型跟委員報告現在退幅只有三大塊一個是軍人一個是公務人員一個是教育人員那所有的公務人員就是在同一個區塊但是那軍人海巡署裡面的屬於軍人身份的人他使用軍人嗎那說警察還是使用公務人員嗎警察跟一般公務人員就是使用公務人員\n385685\t411847\t對對那如果說就這個部分的話確實可能我們這次修法如果通過的話要在這個針對像海巡人員這樣比較特殊的機關他的人員性質的不同我認為說其實還是要有所區別了他們的退伏制度我的意見跟委員有點類似就像消防人員剛剛蕭署長也有講到他沒有一般公務人員不是全部都是警察人員這個區隔下去以後會一樣是消防消防人員他可能領留不一樣\n412568\t412708\t二）委員\n428712\t434736\t條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具 ．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n","txt":"麻煩有請人事行政總署的李副司長麻煩請副司長還有權敘部的張次長好了\n今天是針對有關於警消人員的退府年改要進行修正。看了人事行政總處以及全序部這邊所做的報告說明,基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改。\n那麼我還記得我在之前的這個執行人事總處的時候我曾經有問過處長一件事情人事總長一件事情就是軍公教警消司法人員其實這些工作型態差異很大尤其是軍公教這三個完全是不同的領域然後再加上警消其實本來就應該要有不同的奉給福利和退府制度\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．委員\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例第三三草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n跟委員報告軍公教本來軍就是軍的體系就一套公教分圖教也自行一套那另外的公務人員部分就是自行一套所以警消就是在我們的公務人員的範圍裡面我們公務人員一般是用的普通法叫公務人任用法公務人任用法裡面有一條是特種人事制度就是警消這方面的警察人但是他身分別還是公務人員\n是這件事我們在講就是這個也是希望人事總書這邊可以與時俱進要去檢討現在公務人員任用條例裡面的相關規定明明我們就知道警消的工作的性質他其實是介於軍人跟公務員一般文職公務員之間那他的工作的特性他的勞務的性質\n其實是跟一般的文職的公務員是不一樣的那麼這也是為什麼今天警消人員希望能夠多爭取他們的一些福利那本席基本上是支持應該要強化多保障警消人員的福利待遇以及他的退福可是呢就可以發現其實我們的政府的思維始終還是停留在這個可能60年前對於這種廣義公務員的這個思維可是現在的情形已經不一樣時代在改變\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等27人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．一）委員\n我來跟國務委員報告一下其實我們現在的制度其實就是國務委員剛剛講的國務委員期待的就是現行的制度就是這樣規劃譬如說剛剛其實有報告就是警消他的這個縫級的設計在前端的時候就跟同等級的公務員其實是不一樣的他從那個警左三階二階一階到警正四階\n警察人員人事條例三草案案\n三草案．立法院提出公教人員年改法案\n二）委員余琦等19人擬具 «警察人員人事條例修正第三\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n是依照各自的這個職務的類型跟委員報告現在退幅只有三大塊一個是軍人一個是公務人員一個是教育人員那所有的公務人員就是在同一個區塊但是那軍人海巡署裡面的屬於軍人身份的人他使用軍人嗎那說警察還是使用公務人員嗎警察跟一般公務人員就是使用公務人員\n對對那如果說就這個部分的話確實可能我們這次修法如果通過的話要在這個針對像海巡人員這樣比較特殊的機關他的人員性質的不同我認為說其實還是要有所區別了他們的退伏制度我的意見跟委員有點類似就像消防人員剛剛蕭署長也有講到他沒有一般公務人員不是全部都是警察人員這個區隔下去以後會一樣是消防消防人員他可能領留不一樣\n二）委員\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具 ．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.484 --> 00:20.517\n麻煩有請人事行政總署的李副司長麻煩請副司長還有權敘部的張次長好了\n\n00:28.091 --> 00:46.969\n今天是針對有關於警消人員的退府年改要進行修正。看了人事行政總處以及全序部這邊所做的報告說明,基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改。\n\n00:47.509 --> 01:12.800\n那麼我還記得我在之前的這個執行人事總處的時候我曾經有問過處長一件事情人事總長一件事情就是軍公教警消司法人員其實這些工作型態差異很大尤其是軍公教這三個完全是不同的領域然後再加上警消其實本來就應該要有不同的奉給福利和退府制度\n\n01:13.080 --> 01:14.501\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．委員\n\n01:28.750 --> 01:30.911\n二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例第三三草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n01:59.116 --> 02:25.988\n跟委員報告軍公教本來軍就是軍的體系就一套公教分圖教也自行一套那另外的公務人員部分就是自行一套所以警消就是在我們的公務人員的範圍裡面我們公務人員一般是用的普通法叫公務人任用法公務人任用法裡面有一條是特種人事制度就是警消這方面的警察人但是他身分別還是公務人員\n\n02:26.573 --> 02:45.435\n是這件事我們在講就是這個也是希望人事總書這邊可以與時俱進要去檢討現在公務人員任用條例裡面的相關規定明明我們就知道警消的工作的性質他其實是介於軍人跟公務員一般文職公務員之間那他的工作的特性他的勞務的性質\n\n02:46.656 --> 03:07.550\n其實是跟一般的文職的公務員是不一樣的那麼這也是為什麼今天警消人員希望能夠多爭取他們的一些福利那本席基本上是支持應該要強化多保障警消人員的福利待遇以及他的退福可是呢就可以發現其實我們的政府的思維始終還是停留在這個可能60年前對於這種廣義公務員的這個思維可是現在的情形已經不一樣時代在改變\n\n03:17.216 --> 03:25.002\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等27人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正三草案．一）委員\n\n03:47.734 --> 04:11.528\n我來跟國務委員報告一下其實我們現在的制度其實就是國務委員剛剛講的國務委員期待的就是現行的制度就是這樣規劃譬如說剛剛其實有報告就是警消他的這個縫級的設計在前端的時候就跟同等級的公務員其實是不一樣的他從那個警左三階二階一階到警正四階\n\n04:12.489 --> 04:13.730\n警察人員人事條例三草案案\n\n04:34.601 --> 04:36.362\n三草案．立法院提出公教人員年改法案\n\n05:03.473 --> 05:05.755\n二）委員余琦等19人擬具«警察人員人事條例修正第三\n\n05:28.911 --> 05:30.252\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n05:58.539 --> 06:25.085\n是依照各自的這個職務的類型跟委員報告現在退幅只有三大塊一個是軍人一個是公務人員一個是教育人員那所有的公務人員就是在同一個區塊但是那軍人海巡署裡面的屬於軍人身份的人他使用軍人嗎那說警察還是使用公務人員嗎警察跟一般公務人員就是使用公務人員\n\n06:25.685 --> 06:51.847\n對對那如果說就這個部分的話確實可能我們這次修法如果通過的話要在這個針對像海巡人員這樣比較特殊的機關他的人員性質的不同我認為說其實還是要有所區別了他們的退伏制度我的意見跟委員有點類似就像消防人員剛剛蕭署長也有講到他沒有一般公務人員不是全部都是警察人員這個區隔下去以後會一樣是消防消防人員他可能領留不一樣\n\n06:52.568 --> 06:52.708\n二）委員\n\n07:08.712 --> 07:14.736\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、內政委員蘇清泉等19人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.484,"end":20.517,"text":"麻煩有請人事行政總署的李副司長麻煩請副司長還有權敘部的張次長好了"},{"start":28.091,"end":46.969,"text":"今天是針對有關於警消人員的退府年改要進行修正。看了人事行政總處以及全序部這邊所做的報告說明,基本上是不贊成這樣的一個修改。"},{"start":47.509,"end":72.8,"text":"那麼我還記得我在之前的這個執行人事總處的時候我曾經有問過處長一件事情人事總長一件事情就是軍公教警消司法人員其實這些工作型態差異很大尤其是軍公教這三個完全是不同的領域然後再加上警消其實本來就應該要有不同的奉給福利和退府制度"},{"start":73.08,"end":74.501,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案（事由．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．事由．委員"},{"start":88.75,"end":90.911,"text":"二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具 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