{"id":153990,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153990","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0defaa96c08c074a9560592432c08898e1d141634ad16f55feebc5b1f2304e56a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:05:06 - 12:15:10","影片長度":"00:10:04","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T12:05:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T12:15:10+08:00","duration":604,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1275,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時5分）謝謝主席。我看杜張副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來，我就請杜張副主委。"],["主席：有請杜張副主委。"],["陳委員瑩：宋處長。"],["主席：還有宋處長，謝謝。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：大家好！希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有力的擔保品這是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情，我在大院總質詢共問過3次，我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少3次的協調會。在3月9日的協調會，當時的決議希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點，但是到4月9日、一個月時間到了並沒有完成，如果說這當中因為時間關係，我可以理解接近520交接的時間，你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定，這個理由我是可以接受的，但是3月9日說一個月要完成的話，那麼4月初早就該處理好，而且整個進度就會耽誤到。因為後來我去瞭解原因，是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非，我沒有誇大喔，因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了！然後用漢人的思維，以及他自己既有的刻板印象，去扭曲本席原來立意良善的提案，因為這件事情是我們所有原住民殷殷期盼希望可以被解決的問題，現在已經遲了兩個月又3天了，我比較想要瞭解你們處裡的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題？目前是不是還有人在從中阻攔？目前進度到底是怎麼樣？請你們報告一下。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：跟委員報告，委員所講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚，但是……"],["陳委員瑩：可能處長比較清楚啦，但是我也……"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：沒有關係，我的意思是現在整個進度來講，所謂原住民保留地貸款信用保證的作業要點草案，事實上我們已經草擬出來大概四十幾點，在會裡面也已經有逐條討論，我們大概在近期可能1個月內會邀請相關的部會，再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行、有沒有什麼問題需要協調的。我想到時候還是要請委員來指導，看看這個內容的部分有沒有真正保障到原住民的權益，我想我們是朝這個方向努力。"],["陳委員瑩：所以就目前來看，你們有沒有信心去說服所有相關的部會？目前的狀況還有哪邊誰比較有問題？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：原則上這個條文在實體上很多都是作業的要點程序，在各部會來講我想因為我們之前曾經有過信貸作業要點的一個前例，我們有針對那個部分來做研修。另外就是再增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況，當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要，如果可以的話，我們可以儘可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法，我想在協調上應該問題不大。以上。"],["陳委員瑩：處長有什麼要補充嗎？"],["宋處長麗茹：跟委員報告，這個時間最主要的落差是我們這次研擬出來的要點是新修訂的要點，不是按照過去那個信用保證要點做修正，我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的標的是不一樣的。所以我們是重新研擬一個新修訂的貸款要點，最主要拖延的時間是在這裡，我想我們會更謹慎的來處理。"],["陳委員瑩：我想相關的部會有財政部、金管會跟銀行，當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通，所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道，我們可以協助大家一起來協調。然後趕快把有價值原保地可以授信貸款這件事情處理好，這樣可以造福我們很多的族人，甚至未來不管是創業，在他們自身要購屋或者房屋修繕或者一些產業的發展推動，都可以有很好的結果。謝謝。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：謝謝委員指教。"],["陳委員瑩：好，請你們回座。","我請羅處長。"],["主席：請羅處長。"],["陳委員瑩：主委，我就不請你了，但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念，因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的，不是故意的，是因為我很認真聽你們的報告。在今天「賴總統原住民政見推動規劃專題報告」裡面第7頁有特別提到強化原住民族健康服務這部分，我想先請教你一個問題，因為它的目標有提到改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情，我想請教處長，你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群平均餘命的差距比較重要？"],["羅處長赫踛：兩個都重要，尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視。"],["陳委員瑩：你回答得非常好，我快速的講一下，因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的提醒了衛福部，在105年到109年這五年間，我先給大家一個概念好了，因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉。假設原住民的平均餘命跟其他族群的差距是10歲，如果原住民平均餘命增加2歲的時候，其他族群、或者我們就講全體國人的平均餘命也增加2歲的時候，大家的平均餘命都提升了，但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛，對不對？我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊！","現在再換個角度，一樣原住民平均餘命提升2歲，但是全體國人其他族群的平均餘命減少2歲，我們中間的差距本來是10歲就變成6歲，你可以說是我們努力到我們的平均餘命跟人家差6歲嗎？你不能這樣看嘛！所以我今天要導正的觀念就是在這裡，我用一個實際的，我們看一下這個表格，這是105年到109年這五年當中，原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲，你們也有發新聞稿，比如說是因為文健站，這幾年大家很開心啦，因為我們長者平均餘命提高了將近2歲；但是我們要看全體國人的平均餘命也提高了1.32歲，所以這五年當中原住民平均餘命提高的情況並不是很單純的提高2歲，這個你們有聽懂？","另外我們再看下一個表，如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距，政府公布的資訊是109年到111年這三年當中，差距縮短了1.47歲，然後連去年的原健法三讀通過的時候，你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院，讓他們去發新聞稿，可是實際上是這麼單純嗎？好像也不是這樣啊！我們看這個表，各年齡層在這三年當中平均餘命的差距都縮小了1.5歲，可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據，這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲，所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了，而不是原住民的平均餘命上升，更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲。去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以做為依據，這是我給你們的提醒，這個是非常重要的提醒，因為這個牽扯到原住民健康實際狀況的調查，也更深深影響到未來健康政策的制定，所以我在這邊特別請羅處長出來導正這個觀念，也讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義，並不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少這麼簡單。"],["羅處長赫踛：是，委員說得很正確。"],["陳委員瑩：這樣你有明白？"],["羅處長赫踛：有聽明白。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳瑩委員的質詢，也謝謝羅處長。","今天登記的委員其實質詢都已經結束了，但是伍麗華委員跟盧縣一委員因為是原住民委員，所以我特別給他們一點時間也在這裡發言一下，就3分鐘，好不好？這樣子對於前面登記準時到的委員比較公平，照理說是不可以讓你們發言，但是我今天做召委，我就做這樣一個裁示，好不好？","現在請伍麗華委員質詢。謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我是跑過來，當時中間隔七、八個人。謝謝主席。"],["主席：下次希望助理能夠監看一下，好不好？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：不知道那七、八個人都不講。"],["主席：沒有，因為現場如果委員不在的話，其實就要注意他們可能不會發言，或者是可以打電話到我們內政委員會請議事人員回應。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：比照以前，原住民可以對原民會多一點。"],["主席：對啊，你如果準時到的話今天都講滿，但是因為你登記的時間已經過期了，我也唸完你的名字，因為是原住民委員的身分，所以我准許你們可以在登記完之後再發言，好不好？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主席。"],["主席：因為我必須要這樣講，不然以後其他的委員在這邊，召委我就很難處理，好嗎？謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我只差10秒。"],["主席：這不是差10秒的問題，好不好？謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":460,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-24","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃仁","黃捷","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳瑩","盧縣一","黃建賓","丁學忠","莊瑞雄"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會、內政部、文化部、客家委員會就「都會區原住民族、客家族群、新住\n民權益保障措施與精進方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請原住民族委員會、財團法人原\n住民族文化事業基金會、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會就「賴清德總統原住民族政見推\n動規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、邀請行政院、原住民族委員會、行政院主計總處、財政\n部就「114年度原住民族委員會預算籌編情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136101_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"153990","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153990","tool":"pyannote","id":"153990-pyannote"},"job_id":"F1itu3nOCjGys7gO","queued_at":"2024-06-13 12:44:42","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-13 12:46:07","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153990"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:46:08","msg":"downloading 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240.558, \"text\": \"這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 216.169, \"end\": 216.609, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.609, \"end\": 216.949, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.949, \"end\": 217.009, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 217.009, \"end\": 217.19, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 217.19, \"end\": 217.29, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 217.29, \"end\": 217.41, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 217.41, \"end\": 217.85, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 217.85, \"end\": 217.99, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 217.99, \"end\": 218.65, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 470.608, \"end\": 470.748, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 470.748, \"end\": 471.008, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 471.008, \"end\": 471.188, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 471.188, \"end\": 471.348, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 471.348, \"end\": 471.569, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 471.569, \"end\": 471.809, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 471.809, \"end\": 472.93, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 472.93, \"end\": 473.11, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 473.11, \"end\": 473.23, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 473.23, \"end\": 473.73, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 473.73, \"end\": 474.11, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 474.11, \"end\": 474.311, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 474.311, \"end\": 474.471, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 474.471, \"end\": 474.951, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 474.951, \"end\": 475.331, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 475.331, \"end\": 475.451, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 475.451, \"end\": 475.611, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 475.611, \"end\": 475.772, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 475.772, \"end\": 475.892, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 475.892, \"end\": 476.032, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 476.032, \"end\": 476.132, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 476.132, \"end\": 476.152, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}]}, {\"start\": 478.514, \"end\": 491.525, \"text\": \"但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 478.514, \"end\": 478.714, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 478.714, \"end\": 478.854, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 478.854, \"end\": 479.054, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 479.054, \"end\": 479.234, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 479.234, \"end\": 479.595, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 479.595, \"end\": 480.235, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 480.235, \"end\": 480.696, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 480.696, \"end\": 480.956, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 480.956, \"end\": 481.076, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 481.076, \"end\": 481.216, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 481.216, \"end\": 481.276, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 481.276, \"end\": 481.476, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 481.476, \"end\": 481.757, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 481.757, \"end\": 481.937, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 481.937, \"end\": 482.137, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 482.137, \"end\": 483.979, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 483.979, \"end\": 484.139, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 484.139, \"end\": 484.399, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 484.399, \"end\": 484.539, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 484.539, \"end\": 485.04, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 485.04, \"end\": 486.361, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 486.361, \"end\": 486.481, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 486.481, \"end\": 486.621, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 486.621, \"end\": 487.141, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.141, \"end\": 487.322, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 487.322, \"end\": 487.442, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 487.442, \"end\": 487.582, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 487.582, \"end\": 487.642, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 487.642, \"end\": 487.802, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 487.802, \"end\": 487.922, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 487.922, \"end\": 488.082, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 488.082, \"end\": 488.242, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 488.242, \"end\": 489.123, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 489.123, \"end\": 489.303, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 489.303, \"end\": 489.564, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 489.564, \"end\": 490.324, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 490.324, \"end\": 490.565, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 490.565, \"end\": 490.725, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 490.725, \"end\": 491.165, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 491.165, \"end\": 491.325, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 491.325, \"end\": 491.445, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 491.445, \"end\": 491.465, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 491.465, \"end\": 491.505, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"懂\", \"start\": 491.505, \"end\": 491.525, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 495.689, \"end\": 518.964, \"text\": \"另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 495.689, \"end\": 495.829, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 495.829, \"end\": 495.969, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 495.969, \"end\": 496.089, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 496.089, \"end\": 496.29, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 496.29, \"end\": 496.51, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 496.51, \"end\": 497.11, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 497.11, \"end\": 497.29, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 497.29, \"end\": 497.53, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 497.53, \"end\": 498.071, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 498.071, \"end\": 498.231, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 498.231, \"end\": 498.331, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 498.331, \"end\": 498.791, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 498.791, \"end\": 498.971, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 498.971, \"end\": 499.151, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 499.151, \"end\": 499.291, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 499.291, \"end\": 499.432, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 499.432, \"end\": 499.652, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 499.652, \"end\": 500.392, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 500.392, \"end\": 500.512, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 500.512, \"end\": 500.672, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 500.672, \"end\": 500.912, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 500.912, \"end\": 501.513, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 501.513, \"end\": 501.753, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 501.753, \"end\": 501.953, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 501.953, \"end\": 502.133, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 502.133, \"end\": 502.273, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 502.273, \"end\": 503.074, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 503.074, \"end\": 503.834, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 503.834, \"end\": 503.974, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 503.974, \"end\": 504.735, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 504.735, \"end\": 505.175, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 505.175, \"end\": 505.936, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 505.936, \"end\": 506.256, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 506.256, \"end\": 506.576, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 506.576, \"end\": 507.657, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 507.657, \"end\": 508.357, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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0.962}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 512.92, \"end\": 513.14, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 513.14, \"end\": 513.42, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 513.42, \"end\": 513.801, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 513.801, \"end\": 514.141, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.141, \"end\": 514.461, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 514.461, \"end\": 514.681, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 514.681, \"end\": 515.582, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 515.582, \"end\": 515.802, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 515.802, \"end\": 516.162, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 516.162, \"end\": 516.322, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 516.322, \"end\": 516.502, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 516.502, \"end\": 516.682, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 516.682, \"end\": 516.863, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 516.863, \"end\": 517.303, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 517.303, \"end\": 517.563, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 517.563, \"end\": 517.863, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 517.863, \"end\": 518.043, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 518.043, \"end\": 518.223, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 518.223, \"end\": 518.564, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 518.564, \"end\": 518.764, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 518.764, \"end\": 518.924, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 518.924, \"end\": 518.944, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"稿\", \"start\": 518.944, \"end\": 518.964, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 520.805, \"end\": 534.643, \"text\": \"可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 520.805, \"end\": 520.925, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 520.925, \"end\": 521.506, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 521.506, \"end\": 522.247, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 522.247, \"end\": 523.408, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 523.408, \"end\": 523.549, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 523.549, \"end\": 523.729, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 523.729, \"end\": 523.809, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 523.809, \"end\": 523.909, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 523.909, \"end\": 524.51, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 524.51, \"end\": 525.111, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 525.111, \"end\": 525.371, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 525.371, \"end\": 525.812, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 525.812, \"end\": 526.552, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 526.552, \"end\": 526.773, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 526.773, \"end\": 527.354, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 527.354, \"end\": 527.694, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 527.694, \"end\": 527.874, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 527.874, \"end\": 528.916, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 528.916, \"end\": 529.316, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 529.316, \"end\": 529.456, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 529.456, \"end\": 529.636, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 529.636, \"end\": 529.757, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 529.757, \"end\": 530.037, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 530.037, \"end\": 530.257, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 530.257, \"end\": 530.457, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 530.457, \"end\": 530.598, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 530.598, \"end\": 530.978, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 530.978, \"end\": 531.178, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 531.178, \"end\": 532.5, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 532.5, \"end\": 532.66, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 532.66, \"end\": 532.78, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 532.78, \"end\": 532.921, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 532.921, \"end\": 533.101, \"score\": 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598.862, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 598.862, \"end\": 598.942, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 598.942, \"end\": 598.962, \"score\": 0.013}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,754 --> 00:00:13,486\n謝謝主席我看那個副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來我就請那個杜璋副主委我們有請杜璋副主委宋處長還有宋處長謝謝委員好\n\n2\n00:00:20,772 --> 00:00:43,323\n大家好我想這個希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有利的擔保品是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情那我在這個大院裡面總共總質詢有問過三次那我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少三次的協調會\n\n3\n00:00:44,924 --> 00:01:02,145\n那在3月9號協調會當時的決議有希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點但是呢到4月9號一個月時間到了並沒有完成\n\n4\n00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:28,424\n如果說這當中因為時間我可以理解就是說接近這個520交接的時間那你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定這個理由我是可以接受的啦但是3月9號一個月完成的話呢4月初早就該處理好而且整個進度就會去耽誤到因為\n\n5\n00:01:30,351 --> 00:01:43,916\n後來我去了解原因是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非我沒有誇大喔因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了然後\n\n6\n00:01:44,756 --> 00:02:01,896\n用這個漢人的思維還有以及就是說原先大家就是說他們他自己既有的那種刻板印象去扭曲本席原來這個利益良善的提案那因為這件事情是我們所有原住民就是因應期盼希望可以被解決的問題\n\n7\n00:02:04,018 --> 00:02:19,490\n現在已經遲了兩個月又三天了我比較想要了解說你們處理的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題目前是不是還有從中有人在從中阻攔\n\n8\n00:02:21,531 --> 00:02:43,877\n目前到底這個進度到底是怎麼樣?那個是請你們報告一下我已經講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚但是可是處長比較清楚沒有關係那我的意思說那現在整個進度來講這個所謂原住民保有地的這個貸款信用保證的作業要點草案我們事實上已經草擬出來大概四十幾條四十幾點\n\n9\n00:02:46,434 --> 00:03:12,917\n那也主條的在會裡面已經有去討論了那我們是大概在近期可能我們會在一個月內再邀請相關的部會再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行然後有沒有什麼問題需要協調的那我想到時候還是要請委員來指導看看這個內容的部分有沒有是真正可以保障到原住民的權益我想我們是朝這個方向努力\n\n10\n00:03:13,362 --> 00:03:34,309\n所以就目前來看你們有沒有信心去說服所有的相關部會那目前的狀況就是還有哪邊誰比較有問題原則上我們這個條文我想在實體上它很多都是作業的這個要點的程序那在各部會來講我想因為我們之前以前曾經有過這個\n\n11\n00:03:36,169 --> 00:04:00,558\n這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎\n\n12\n00:04:03,799 --> 00:04:29,584\n各位委員報告那這個時間最主要的一個落差是我們這次研擬出來的這個要點是新修訂的這個要點也就是不是按照過去所有過去的那個信用保證的那個要點裡面去做修正我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的這個標的是不一樣的所以呢我們這次重新研擬要研擬一個新修訂的一個貸款的這個要點\n\n13\n00:04:31,534 --> 00:04:55,683\n最主要的拖延的時間是在這裡我想我們會更謹慎的來處理我想相關的部會當然有財政部、金管會跟銀行那當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道我們可以再來協助大家一起來協調然後趕快把這個原保地可以\n\n14\n00:04:56,683 --> 00:05:19,904\n有價值原保地可以受信貸款這件事情我們把它處理好這樣可以造福到我們很多的族人那甚至在未來不管是創業或者在他們自身的這個要購屋或者房屋修繕等等可以或者一些產業的發展推動都可以有很好的結果好謝謝那請謝謝委員指教是好請你們回座那我請那個羅處長\n\n15\n00:05:21,802 --> 00:05:43,858\n主委我就不請你了但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的不是故意的是因為我很認真聽你們的報告那當然在這個今天的這個賴總統的這個原住民政見的這個報告裡面呢第7頁\n\n16\n00:05:45,855 --> 00:06:12,316\n有特別提到這個強化原住民族健康服務這個部分那我想先請教你一個問題你認為因為他的目標有提到然後就是改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情我想請教處長你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群的差距平均餘命的差距比較重要\n\n17\n00:06:13,309 --> 00:06:37,120\n兩個都重要但是尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視你回答的非常好那因為我快速的講一下因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的去提醒了這個衛福部因為在這個105年到109年間呢這五年我先給大家一個概念好了因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉\n\n18\n00:06:40,402 --> 00:07:08,930\n假設這個原住民的平均餘命跟這個其他族群是差距10歲如果原住民增加平均餘命增加兩歲的時候那其他族群或者是全國我們講全國全體國人的平均餘命也增加兩歲的時候那我們大家平均餘命都提升了但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛對不對那我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊\n\n19\n00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:34,317\n那現在來再換個角度一樣原住民平均移民提升兩歲但是全體國人其他族群的平均移民減少兩歲那我們中間的差距本來十歲就變成六歲那你可以說我們努力到我們的平均移民跟人家差六歲嗎你不能這樣看嘛所以我今天要導正的\n\n20\n00:07:35,517 --> 00:07:56,152\n這個觀念就是在這裡那我用一個實際的我們看一下這個我們這個表格就是109年喔105到109年這五年當中原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲那大家都說你們有發新聞稿比如說因為文件站啦什麼我們就這幾年大家很開心啦我們長者平均餘命提高了將近兩歲\n\n21\n00:07:58,514 --> 00:08:11,525\n但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂\n\n22\n00:08:15,689 --> 00:08:38,964\n另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿\n\n23\n00:08:40,805 --> 00:08:54,643\n可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據\n\n24\n00:08:56,765 --> 00:09:16,832\n這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了而不是原住民的平均餘命上升更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲\n\n25\n00:09:19,273 --> 00:09:42,308\n那去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以作為依據這是我給你們的提醒那這個是非常重要的提醒因為這個牽扯到原住民健康的實際狀況的調查然後也更深深影響到未來健康政策的一個制定所以我在這邊特別\n\n26\n00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:58,962\n請羅處長出來導正這個觀念,讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義,不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少,就這樣子那麼簡單。」是,委員說得很正確,有聽明白。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳英委員的質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3754\t13486\t謝謝主席我看那個副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來我就請那個杜璋副主委我們有請杜璋副主委宋處長還有宋處長謝謝委員好\n20772\t43323\t大家好我想這個希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有利的擔保品是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情那我在這個大院裡面總共總質詢有問過三次那我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少三次的協調會\n44924\t62145\t那在3月9號協調會當時的決議有希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點但是呢到4月9號一個月時間到了並沒有完成\n63166\t88424\t如果說這當中因為時間我可以理解就是說接近這個520交接的時間那你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定這個理由我是可以接受的啦但是3月9號一個月完成的話呢4月初早就該處理好而且整個進度就會去耽誤到因為\n90351\t103916\t後來我去了解原因是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非我沒有誇大喔因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了然後\n104756\t121896\t用這個漢人的思維還有以及就是說原先大家就是說他們他自己既有的那種刻板印象去扭曲本席原來這個利益良善的提案那因為這件事情是我們所有原住民就是因應期盼希望可以被解決的問題\n124018\t139490\t現在已經遲了兩個月又三天了我比較想要了解說你們處理的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題目前是不是還有從中有人在從中阻攔\n141531\t163877\t目前到底這個進度到底是怎麼樣?那個是請你們報告一下我已經講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚但是可是處長比較清楚沒有關係那我的意思說那現在整個進度來講這個所謂原住民保有地的這個貸款信用保證的作業要點草案我們事實上已經草擬出來大概四十幾條四十幾點\n166434\t192917\t那也主條的在會裡面已經有去討論了那我們是大概在近期可能我們會在一個月內再邀請相關的部會再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行然後有沒有什麼問題需要協調的那我想到時候還是要請委員來指導看看這個內容的部分有沒有是真正可以保障到原住民的權益我想我們是朝這個方向努力\n193362\t214309\t所以就目前來看你們有沒有信心去說服所有的相關部會那目前的狀況就是還有哪邊誰比較有問題原則上我們這個條文我想在實體上它很多都是作業的這個要點的程序那在各部會來講我想因為我們之前以前曾經有過這個\n216169\t240558\t這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎\n243799\t269584\t各位委員報告那這個時間最主要的一個落差是我們這次研擬出來的這個要點是新修訂的這個要點也就是不是按照過去所有過去的那個信用保證的那個要點裡面去做修正我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的這個標的是不一樣的所以呢我們這次重新研擬要研擬一個新修訂的一個貸款的這個要點\n271534\t295683\t最主要的拖延的時間是在這裡我想我們會更謹慎的來處理我想相關的部會當然有財政部、金管會跟銀行那當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道我們可以再來協助大家一起來協調然後趕快把這個原保地可以\n296683\t319904\t有價值原保地可以受信貸款這件事情我們把它處理好這樣可以造福到我們很多的族人那甚至在未來不管是創業或者在他們自身的這個要購屋或者房屋修繕等等可以或者一些產業的發展推動都可以有很好的結果好謝謝那請謝謝委員指教是好請你們回座那我請那個羅處長\n321802\t343858\t主委我就不請你了但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的不是故意的是因為我很認真聽你們的報告那當然在這個今天的這個賴總統的這個原住民政見的這個報告裡面呢第7頁\n345855\t372316\t有特別提到這個強化原住民族健康服務這個部分那我想先請教你一個問題你認為因為他的目標有提到然後就是改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情我想請教處長你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群的差距平均餘命的差距比較重要\n373309\t397120\t兩個都重要但是尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視你回答的非常好那因為我快速的講一下因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的去提醒了這個衛福部因為在這個105年到109年間呢這五年我先給大家一個概念好了因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉\n400402\t428930\t假設這個原住民的平均餘命跟這個其他族群是差距10歲如果原住民增加平均餘命增加兩歲的時候那其他族群或者是全國我們講全國全體國人的平均餘命也增加兩歲的時候那我們大家平均餘命都提升了但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛對不對那我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊\n429770\t454317\t那現在來再換個角度一樣原住民平均移民提升兩歲但是全體國人其他族群的平均移民減少兩歲那我們中間的差距本來十歲就變成六歲那你可以說我們努力到我們的平均移民跟人家差六歲嗎你不能這樣看嘛所以我今天要導正的\n455517\t476152\t這個觀念就是在這裡那我用一個實際的我們看一下這個我們這個表格就是109年喔105到109年這五年當中原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲那大家都說你們有發新聞稿比如說因為文件站啦什麼我們就這幾年大家很開心啦我們長者平均餘命提高了將近兩歲\n478514\t491525\t但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂\n495689\t518964\t另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿\n520805\t534643\t可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據\n536765\t556832\t這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了而不是原住民的平均餘命上升更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲\n559273\t582308\t那去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以作為依據這是我給你們的提醒那這個是非常重要的提醒因為這個牽扯到原住民健康的實際狀況的調查然後也更深深影響到未來健康政策的一個制定所以我在這邊特別\n584870\t598962\t請羅處長出來導正這個觀念,讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義,不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少,就這樣子那麼簡單。」是,委員說得很正確,有聽明白。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳英委員的質詢。\n","txt":"謝謝主席我看那個副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來我就請那個杜璋副主委我們有請杜璋副主委宋處長還有宋處長謝謝委員好\n大家好我想這個希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有利的擔保品是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情那我在這個大院裡面總共總質詢有問過三次那我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少三次的協調會\n那在3月9號協調會當時的決議有希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點但是呢到4月9號一個月時間到了並沒有完成\n如果說這當中因為時間我可以理解就是說接近這個520交接的時間那你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定這個理由我是可以接受的啦但是3月9號一個月完成的話呢4月初早就該處理好而且整個進度就會去耽誤到因為\n後來我去了解原因是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非我沒有誇大喔因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了然後\n用這個漢人的思維還有以及就是說原先大家就是說他們他自己既有的那種刻板印象去扭曲本席原來這個利益良善的提案那因為這件事情是我們所有原住民就是因應期盼希望可以被解決的問題\n現在已經遲了兩個月又三天了我比較想要了解說你們處理的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題目前是不是還有從中有人在從中阻攔\n目前到底這個進度到底是怎麼樣?那個是請你們報告一下我已經講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚但是可是處長比較清楚沒有關係那我的意思說那現在整個進度來講這個所謂原住民保有地的這個貸款信用保證的作業要點草案我們事實上已經草擬出來大概四十幾條四十幾點\n那也主條的在會裡面已經有去討論了那我們是大概在近期可能我們會在一個月內再邀請相關的部會再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行然後有沒有什麼問題需要協調的那我想到時候還是要請委員來指導看看這個內容的部分有沒有是真正可以保障到原住民的權益我想我們是朝這個方向努力\n所以就目前來看你們有沒有信心去說服所有的相關部會那目前的狀況就是還有哪邊誰比較有問題原則上我們這個條文我想在實體上它很多都是作業的這個要點的程序那在各部會來講我想因為我們之前以前曾經有過這個\n這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎\n各位委員報告那這個時間最主要的一個落差是我們這次研擬出來的這個要點是新修訂的這個要點也就是不是按照過去所有過去的那個信用保證的那個要點裡面去做修正我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的這個標的是不一樣的所以呢我們這次重新研擬要研擬一個新修訂的一個貸款的這個要點\n最主要的拖延的時間是在這裡我想我們會更謹慎的來處理我想相關的部會當然有財政部、金管會跟銀行那當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道我們可以再來協助大家一起來協調然後趕快把這個原保地可以\n有價值原保地可以受信貸款這件事情我們把它處理好這樣可以造福到我們很多的族人那甚至在未來不管是創業或者在他們自身的這個要購屋或者房屋修繕等等可以或者一些產業的發展推動都可以有很好的結果好謝謝那請謝謝委員指教是好請你們回座那我請那個羅處長\n主委我就不請你了但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的不是故意的是因為我很認真聽你們的報告那當然在這個今天的這個賴總統的這個原住民政見的這個報告裡面呢第7頁\n有特別提到這個強化原住民族健康服務這個部分那我想先請教你一個問題你認為因為他的目標有提到然後就是改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情我想請教處長你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群的差距平均餘命的差距比較重要\n兩個都重要但是尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視你回答的非常好那因為我快速的講一下因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的去提醒了這個衛福部因為在這個105年到109年間呢這五年我先給大家一個概念好了因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉\n假設這個原住民的平均餘命跟這個其他族群是差距10歲如果原住民增加平均餘命增加兩歲的時候那其他族群或者是全國我們講全國全體國人的平均餘命也增加兩歲的時候那我們大家平均餘命都提升了但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛對不對那我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊\n那現在來再換個角度一樣原住民平均移民提升兩歲但是全體國人其他族群的平均移民減少兩歲那我們中間的差距本來十歲就變成六歲那你可以說我們努力到我們的平均移民跟人家差六歲嗎你不能這樣看嘛所以我今天要導正的\n這個觀念就是在這裡那我用一個實際的我們看一下這個我們這個表格就是109年喔105到109年這五年當中原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲那大家都說你們有發新聞稿比如說因為文件站啦什麼我們就這幾年大家很開心啦我們長者平均餘命提高了將近兩歲\n但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂\n另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿\n可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據\n這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了而不是原住民的平均餘命上升更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲\n那去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以作為依據這是我給你們的提醒那這個是非常重要的提醒因為這個牽扯到原住民健康的實際狀況的調查然後也更深深影響到未來健康政策的一個制定所以我在這邊特別\n請羅處長出來導正這個觀念,讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義,不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少,就這樣子那麼簡單。」是,委員說得很正確,有聽明白。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳英委員的質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.754 --> 00:13.486\n謝謝主席我看那個副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來我就請那個杜璋副主委我們有請杜璋副主委宋處長還有宋處長謝謝委員好\n\n00:20.772 --> 00:43.323\n大家好我想這個希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有利的擔保品是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情那我在這個大院裡面總共總質詢有問過三次那我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少三次的協調會\n\n00:44.924 --> 01:02.145\n那在3月9號協調會當時的決議有希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點但是呢到4月9號一個月時間到了並沒有完成\n\n01:03.166 --> 01:28.424\n如果說這當中因為時間我可以理解就是說接近這個520交接的時間那你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定這個理由我是可以接受的啦但是3月9號一個月完成的話呢4月初早就該處理好而且整個進度就會去耽誤到因為\n\n01:30.351 --> 01:43.916\n後來我去了解原因是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非我沒有誇大喔因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了然後\n\n01:44.756 --> 02:01.896\n用這個漢人的思維還有以及就是說原先大家就是說他們他自己既有的那種刻板印象去扭曲本席原來這個利益良善的提案那因為這件事情是我們所有原住民就是因應期盼希望可以被解決的問題\n\n02:04.018 --> 02:19.490\n現在已經遲了兩個月又三天了我比較想要了解說你們處理的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題目前是不是還有從中有人在從中阻攔\n\n02:21.531 --> 02:43.877\n目前到底這個進度到底是怎麼樣?那個是請你們報告一下我已經講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚但是可是處長比較清楚沒有關係那我的意思說那現在整個進度來講這個所謂原住民保有地的這個貸款信用保證的作業要點草案我們事實上已經草擬出來大概四十幾條四十幾點\n\n02:46.434 --> 03:12.917\n那也主條的在會裡面已經有去討論了那我們是大概在近期可能我們會在一個月內再邀請相關的部會再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行然後有沒有什麼問題需要協調的那我想到時候還是要請委員來指導看看這個內容的部分有沒有是真正可以保障到原住民的權益我想我們是朝這個方向努力\n\n03:13.362 --> 03:34.309\n所以就目前來看你們有沒有信心去說服所有的相關部會那目前的狀況就是還有哪邊誰比較有問題原則上我們這個條文我想在實體上它很多都是作業的這個要點的程序那在各部會來講我想因為我們之前以前曾經有過這個\n\n03:36.169 --> 04:00.558\n這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎\n\n04:03.799 --> 04:29.584\n各位委員報告那這個時間最主要的一個落差是我們這次研擬出來的這個要點是新修訂的這個要點也就是不是按照過去所有過去的那個信用保證的那個要點裡面去做修正我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的這個標的是不一樣的所以呢我們這次重新研擬要研擬一個新修訂的一個貸款的這個要點\n\n04:31.534 --> 04:55.683\n最主要的拖延的時間是在這裡我想我們會更謹慎的來處理我想相關的部會當然有財政部、金管會跟銀行那當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道我們可以再來協助大家一起來協調然後趕快把這個原保地可以\n\n04:56.683 --> 05:19.904\n有價值原保地可以受信貸款這件事情我們把它處理好這樣可以造福到我們很多的族人那甚至在未來不管是創業或者在他們自身的這個要購屋或者房屋修繕等等可以或者一些產業的發展推動都可以有很好的結果好謝謝那請謝謝委員指教是好請你們回座那我請那個羅處長\n\n05:21.802 --> 05:43.858\n主委我就不請你了但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的不是故意的是因為我很認真聽你們的報告那當然在這個今天的這個賴總統的這個原住民政見的這個報告裡面呢第7頁\n\n05:45.855 --> 06:12.316\n有特別提到這個強化原住民族健康服務這個部分那我想先請教你一個問題你認為因為他的目標有提到然後就是改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情我想請教處長你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群的差距平均餘命的差距比較重要\n\n06:13.309 --> 06:37.120\n兩個都重要但是尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視你回答的非常好那因為我快速的講一下因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的去提醒了這個衛福部因為在這個105年到109年間呢這五年我先給大家一個概念好了因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉\n\n06:40.402 --> 07:08.930\n假設這個原住民的平均餘命跟這個其他族群是差距10歲如果原住民增加平均餘命增加兩歲的時候那其他族群或者是全國我們講全國全體國人的平均餘命也增加兩歲的時候那我們大家平均餘命都提升了但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛對不對那我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊\n\n07:09.770 --> 07:34.317\n那現在來再換個角度一樣原住民平均移民提升兩歲但是全體國人其他族群的平均移民減少兩歲那我們中間的差距本來十歲就變成六歲那你可以說我們努力到我們的平均移民跟人家差六歲嗎你不能這樣看嘛所以我今天要導正的\n\n07:35.517 --> 07:56.152\n這個觀念就是在這裡那我用一個實際的我們看一下這個我們這個表格就是109年喔105到109年這五年當中原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲那大家都說你們有發新聞稿比如說因為文件站啦什麼我們就這幾年大家很開心啦我們長者平均餘命提高了將近兩歲\n\n07:58.514 --> 08:11.525\n但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂\n\n08:15.689 --> 08:38.964\n另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿\n\n08:40.805 --> 08:54.643\n可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據\n\n08:56.765 --> 09:16.832\n這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了而不是原住民的平均餘命上升更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲\n\n09:19.273 --> 09:42.308\n那去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以作為依據這是我給你們的提醒那這個是非常重要的提醒因為這個牽扯到原住民健康的實際狀況的調查然後也更深深影響到未來健康政策的一個制定所以我在這邊特別\n\n09:44.870 --> 09:58.962\n請羅處長出來導正這個觀念,讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義,不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少,就這樣子那麼簡單。」是,委員說得很正確,有聽明白。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳英委員的質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.754,"end":13.486,"text":"謝謝主席我看那個副主委今天都還沒有被叫上來我就請那個杜璋副主委我們有請杜璋副主委宋處長還有宋處長謝謝委員好"},{"start":20.772,"end":43.323,"text":"大家好我想這個希望推動有價值的原住民保留地可以在銀行視為有利的擔保品是我從上一屆就一直非常大力推動的事情那我在這個大院裡面總共總質詢有問過三次那我辦公室在這個會期就開過至少三次的協調會"},{"start":44.924,"end":62.145,"text":"那在3月9號協調會當時的決議有希望原民會在一個月內修正貸款的要點但是呢到4月9號一個月時間到了並沒有完成"},{"start":63.166,"end":88.424,"text":"如果說這當中因為時間我可以理解就是說接近這個520交接的時間那你們如果要等新內閣上任再做確定這個理由我是可以接受的啦但是3月9號一個月完成的話呢4月初早就該處理好而且整個進度就會去耽誤到因為"},{"start":90.351,"end":103.916,"text":"後來我去了解原因是你們處裡面有人在從中作梗甚至顛倒是非我沒有誇大喔因為這個回去傳遞的訊息真的是太誇張了然後"},{"start":104.756,"end":121.896,"text":"用這個漢人的思維還有以及就是說原先大家就是說他們他自己既有的那種刻板印象去扭曲本席原來這個利益良善的提案那因為這件事情是我們所有原住民就是因應期盼希望可以被解決的問題"},{"start":124.018,"end":139.49,"text":"現在已經遲了兩個月又三天了我比較想要了解說你們處理的同仁是不是大家都理解了這個要被解決的問題目前是不是還有從中有人在從中阻攔"},{"start":141.531,"end":163.877,"text":"目前到底這個進度到底是怎麼樣?那個是請你們報告一下我已經講那個有沒有從中阻攔這個我不是很清楚但是可是處長比較清楚沒有關係那我的意思說那現在整個進度來講這個所謂原住民保有地的這個貸款信用保證的作業要點草案我們事實上已經草擬出來大概四十幾條四十幾點"},{"start":166.434,"end":192.917,"text":"那也主條的在會裡面已經有去討論了那我們是大概在近期可能我們會在一個月內再邀請相關的部會再來看這個草案的條文是不是可行然後有沒有什麼問題需要協調的那我想到時候還是要請委員來指導看看這個內容的部分有沒有是真正可以保障到原住民的權益我想我們是朝這個方向努力"},{"start":193.362,"end":214.309,"text":"所以就目前來看你們有沒有信心去說服所有的相關部會那目前的狀況就是還有哪邊誰比較有問題原則上我們這個條文我想在實體上它很多都是作業的這個要點的程序那在各部會來講我想因為我們之前以前曾經有過這個"},{"start":216.169,"end":240.558,"text":"這個信貸的這樣的一個注意要點的一個潛力我們有有針對那個部分來做研修另外就是在增加了目前我們所看到的一些狀況那當然在信保的部分我們的保證很重要啦如果可以的話那我們可以盡可能的讓其他部會能夠同意我們的一些看法跟做法我想在協調上應該問題不大以上我想這個那處長有什麼要補充嗎"},{"start":243.799,"end":269.584,"text":"各位委員報告那這個時間最主要的一個落差是我們這次研擬出來的這個要點是新修訂的這個要點也就是不是按照過去所有過去的那個信用保證的那個要點裡面去做修正我想因為整個立場或整個要協助的這個標的是不一樣的所以呢我們這次重新研擬要研擬一個新修訂的一個貸款的這個要點"},{"start":271.534,"end":295.683,"text":"最主要的拖延的時間是在這裡我想我們會更謹慎的來處理我想相關的部會當然有財政部、金管會跟銀行那當然我們都知道其實這幾個單位有時候很不好溝通所以我希望如果中間有什麼狀況再隨時讓我們知道我們可以再來協助大家一起來協調然後趕快把這個原保地可以"},{"start":296.683,"end":319.904,"text":"有價值原保地可以受信貸款這件事情我們把它處理好這樣可以造福到我們很多的族人那甚至在未來不管是創業或者在他們自身的這個要購屋或者房屋修繕等等可以或者一些產業的發展推動都可以有很好的結果好謝謝那請謝謝委員指教是好請你們回座那我請那個羅處長"},{"start":321.802,"end":343.858,"text":"主委我就不請你了但是我請你坐在位子上好好聽一下這個概念因為這一題是我剛剛臨時加進來的不是故意的是因為我很認真聽你們的報告那當然在這個今天的這個賴總統的這個原住民政見的這個報告裡面呢第7頁"},{"start":345.855,"end":372.316,"text":"有特別提到這個強化原住民族健康服務這個部分那我想先請教你一個問題你認為因為他的目標有提到然後就是改善並提升族人平均餘命這件事情我想請教處長你認為提升族人的平均餘命比較重要還是縮短原住民和其他族群的差距平均餘命的差距比較重要"},{"start":373.309,"end":397.12,"text":"兩個都重要但是尤其是那個差距的部分其實我們也是很重視你回答的非常好那因為我快速的講一下因為同樣的事情我也很鄭重的去提醒了這個衛福部因為在這個105年到109年間呢這五年我先給大家一個概念好了因為我怕這個有小數點的數據大家會亂掉"},{"start":400.402,"end":428.93,"text":"假設這個原住民的平均餘命跟這個其他族群是差距10歲如果原住民增加平均餘命增加兩歲的時候那其他族群或者是全國我們講全國全體國人的平均餘命也增加兩歲的時候那我們大家平均餘命都提升了但是我們平均餘命的差距還是差人家10歲嘛對不對那我們長期以來努力的都是在縮短我們跟其他族群的平均餘命啊"},{"start":429.77,"end":454.317,"text":"那現在來再換個角度一樣原住民平均移民提升兩歲但是全體國人其他族群的平均移民減少兩歲那我們中間的差距本來十歲就變成六歲那你可以說我們努力到我們的平均移民跟人家差六歲嗎你不能這樣看嘛所以我今天要導正的"},{"start":455.517,"end":476.152,"text":"這個觀念就是在這裡那我用一個實際的我們看一下這個我們這個表格就是109年喔105到109年這五年當中原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲那大家都說你們有發新聞稿比如說因為文件站啦什麼我們就這幾年大家很開心啦我們長者平均餘命提高了將近兩歲"},{"start":478.514,"end":491.525,"text":"但是我們要看全體國人的平均移民也是提高1.32歲所以這五年當中原住民的平均移民提高的情況不是很單純的就是提高兩歲這個你們有聽懂"},{"start":495.689,"end":518.964,"text":"另外我們再看到這個下一個表如果我們講到原住民跟全體國人的差距政府公布的資訊是109年到111年當中這三年呢我們的這個差距縮短了1.47歲然後連這個去年的原建法三讀通過的時候呢你們跟衛福部也是拿這樣的資料給行政院讓他們去發新聞稿"},{"start":520.805,"end":534.643,"text":"可是實際上是這麼單純嗎?好像也不是這樣啊我們看這個表各年齡層在這三年當中平均與移民的差距都縮小了1.5歲那可是再看到下面的一排紅字的數據"},{"start":536.765,"end":556.832,"text":"這三年全體國人的平均餘命都下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年間縮短差距的背後是全體國人的平均餘命都下降了而不是原住民的平均餘命上升更何況其實這三年原住民的平均餘命其實是稍微減少了0.01歲"},{"start":559.273,"end":582.308,"text":"那去分析這個成果跟目前情況的時候不是單單用一個統計數據就可以作為依據這是我給你們的提醒那這個是非常重要的提醒因為這個牽扯到原住民健康的實際狀況的調查然後也更深深影響到未來健康政策的一個制定所以我在這邊特別"},{"start":584.87,"end":598.962,"text":"請羅處長出來導正這個觀念,讓大家了解平均餘命背後代表的意義,不是我們單看原住民平均餘命增加多少,就這樣子那麼簡單。」是,委員說得很正確,有聽明白。好,謝謝。好,謝謝陳英委員的質詢。"}]}}}}