{"id":153991,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153991","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba06beb7f1113a062d38ff7e0bc1ebc50211d141634ad16f55ff1956145e7c495575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"12:11:17 - 12:18:53","影片長度":"00:07:36","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T12:11:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T12:18:53+08:00","duration":456,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（12時11分）謝謝主席。請內政部馬次長、銓敘部張次長、警政署張署長及消防署蕭署長。"],["主席：麻煩各位官員上臺。"],["許委員宇甄：次長好、署長好。6月15日就是警察節，在警察節前夕我們來審查警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正案，對於退休的警消人員來說讓他們生活更有保障，我想這是對警察人員最高的一個致敬。賴總統在去年擔任副總統的時候也有針對提高警察勤務加給百分之十五來回應這些堅守崗位的員警，讓政府成為人民保母的靠山，賴總統那時候是針對我們現任的警察同仁，但是對於已經退休的警察人員我覺得也應該給予更多的保障，讓他們在退休之後可以享有安居樂業的退休生活。我想請教一下內政部次長，對於我們今天要修正的這個草案您的看法？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，其實對警消同仁我們是把他分成三個部分，一個是現職同仁的照顧，第二個是所謂的撫卹，第三個是退休。對於這三個部分我們有三個部分不同的照顧和設計，現職同仁的部分以警察來講目前已經有16項對於現職人員……"],["許委員宇甄：我現在針對的是退休警消人員。"],["馬次長士元：退休警消人員的部分，依照我們的立場，是對於退休警消同仁權益的提升我們是絕對同意的，但怎麼去提升，怎麼樣能夠合理的讓我們的措施跟國家的財政做平衡，這需要跟委員再討論。"],["許委員宇甄：所以次長原則上對於這個部分我們的修正條文是同意的，至於什麼方式，我們都可以再討論，是嗎？"],["馬次長士元：應該跟委員報告就是說，方向上我們同意也認同對於退休警消同仁的權益保障，但對於怎麼做這件事情，我們必須再有更多的社會溝通。"],["許委員宇甄：我再請教一下警政署張署長和消防署蕭副署長的看法。"],["張署長榮興：剛才很多委員也都這樣提了，就是說我們對於現職和退休都同樣會去做照顧，至於今天修的這一條，我們會跟相關單位積極的做溝通、協助，做積極的處理。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝，那蕭署長。"],["蕭署長煥章：是，感謝委員對消防的關心，在過去的一段時間，目前是有一個23項計畫、270億的經費未來會投注在消防人員的工作上。昨天院長也批示針對職業安全我們給消防人員的服務，這是現職人員的部分。對於退職人員，我們也同樣儘量以溝通協調的方式來讓退職人員能夠得到相對的一個服務。"],["許委員宇甄：我想三位對於這個部分都有共識，就是希望用協調的方式針對退休的警消人員能夠給予最大的協助。請問一下銓敘部張次長。"],["張次長秋元：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：我看銓敘部提出的報告是說提高警消等人員的退休所得替代率會引起其他人數眾多的其他公務人員的不滿。"],["張次長秋元：的確是這樣的狀態，因為大家都繳一樣的錢，本來是繳一樣的錢、然後領一樣的錢，現在這個提案會變成繳一樣的錢，然後領不一樣的錢，因為它是一個基金，是大家一起共同提撥的，就會產生不一樣的差異。"],["許委員宇甄：如果是把適用在該基金的所有其他公務人員的所得替代率提高呢？這樣不就公平了嗎？"],["張次長秋元：那樣就像剛剛黃國昌委員所講的會衝擊到基金的財務，會有更大的衝擊，這個部分還要再精算……"],["許委員宇甄：你剛剛說衝擊到基金的財務嘛。"],["張次長秋元：基金的財務，對。"],["許委員宇甄：好，我想我們大家都知道勞保基金，大家都說勞保基金可能都會破產、破產、破產，可是勞動部長針對大家詢問這個問題時，他提到他覺得沒問題，以政府的財政一定可以持續的撥補勞健保而且會逐年的增加，為什麼勞保基金可以這麼做而退撫基金卻沒辦法這麼做？"],["張次長秋元：跟委員報告，其實公務人員退撫基金政府也是在撥補，這幾年大概已經撥補了，像結餘的撥補是2,074億元，如果再加上軍人的撥補600億元，總共兩千六百多億元。"],["許委員宇甄：如果像勞動部長這樣子的話，他可以非常負責任、有guts的跟大家說勞保基金可以撥補。"],["張次長秋元：跟委員報告，現在退撫基金是朝向一個比較健康的方向在發展，公保基金已經很健康了，我們是足額提存的，然後退撫基金的部分因為大家的努力、大家的共體時艱之後，其實它是往好的方向發展。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得以公平性來說的話，既然勞保基金可以用這樣的方式，退撫基金應該銓敘部也要想辦法是不是有怎麼樣的方式。","再來請教馬次長，新式數位身分證的換發到現在因為暫停，但已經浪費納稅人十億多，現在每年還要花6,735萬來維護未來可能不會使用的設備，所以我覺得這個新的數位身分證應該趕快決定到底要不要繼續還是終止，不然每年花六千多萬撥補給未來可能用不到的，如果把這筆錢省下來撥補給警消人員退休金使用的話，是不是就可以呢？","另外，我們有很多錢都花在不該花的地方，包括之前新冠肺炎疫苗的成本比其他國家高了很多，還有錯誤的能源政策，每度電要花12塊跟綠電業者買電，導致台電到現在已經連續兩年虧損達5,460億，也是用撥補的，也是政府撥補的，所以如果這些錯誤的能源政策不要浪費這好幾千億，那請問一下，警消人員的退休金是不是就可以不要被砍了？請馬次長好好思考一下。","今天在這邊還有農業部的人員，我們之前也讓資本額50萬元的公司去買了八千多萬顆雞蛋，現在還要花好幾千萬去銷毀已經過期的雞蛋，所以如果各部會都能好好的思考這些預算怎麼好好的使用的話，不會浪費納稅人的錢的話，事實上退休警消人員的這個部分就不會付不出來了。這個部分再請馬次長能夠好好的去協調未來我們要怎麼照顧退休的警消人員。謝謝。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：下一位請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra 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\"1\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 430.76, \"end\": 430.78, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 430.78, \"end\": 430.86, \"score\": 0.581}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 430.86, \"end\": 430.88, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 430.88, \"end\": 431.001, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 431.001, \"end\": 431.021, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,213 --> 00:00:18,046\n謝謝主席我們請內政部馬次長全序部張次長警政署張署長跟消防署蕭署長麻煩\n\n2\n00:00:20,077 --> 00:00:24,020\n警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正\n\n3\n00:00:43,974 --> 00:00:47,578\n二）委員賴副總統在去年擔任副總統的時候也有針對我們的警察提高勤務加級的15%來回應這些堅守崗位讓我們的警察從政府成為人民的保姆的靠山\n\n4\n00:01:02,972 --> 00:01:05,814\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n5\n00:01:28,342 --> 00:01:52,234\n跟委員報告其實我們警消同仁我們把它分成三個部分一個就是說我們限職同仁的照顧那第二是所謂的撫恤第三個是退休那對於這三個部分我們有三個部分不同的一個照顧跟我們的設計那限職同仁的部分以警察來講我們目前已經有16項對於限職警察我現在針對的是退休的這個警消人員\n\n6\n00:01:52,814 --> 00:02:18,502\n退休警校委員的部分是依照我們的立場就是說我們對於退休警校同仁的權益的提升這個我們絕對是同意的但是怎麼去提升怎麼樣能夠合理的然後能夠讓我們的措施跟國家的財政能夠做平衡這個需要去跟委員在討論所以次長原則上對於這個部分我們的修正條例您是同意的但就是至於什麼方式我們都可以再討論是嗎\n\n7\n00:02:19,682 --> 00:02:21,824\n三草案．立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n8\n00:02:36,654 --> 00:02:52,481\n對我剛有很多委員都這樣提的就是說我們對於限職跟退休都同樣會去做照顧那至於這一些今天修了這一條我們會跟相關的單位會來積極來做溝通協助來做積極處理謝謝那蕭署長\n\n9\n00:02:58,018 --> 00:03:24,317\n感謝委員對消防的關心在過去的時間目前是有23個計畫274億的經費未來會投注在消防的工作上那昨天院長也批示一個就針對職業安全我們給消防人員的一個服務這是限制人員的部分當然對退職人員我們同樣盡量想溝通協調的方式來讓退職人員能夠得到相對的一個服務跟限制\n\n10\n00:03:24,437 --> 00:03:53,340\n所以我想三位其實對於這個部分其實都有共識就是希望用協調的方式來去針對我們退休的警消人員能夠給予他們最大的一個協助那請問一下全序部我們張次長你好你好像全序部我看你們提出的報告是說提高警消等人員的退休所得替代率會引起其他人數眾多的其他公務人員的不滿嗎這確實是這樣的狀態因為大家都繳一樣的錢\n\n11\n00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,140\n二）委員\n\n12\n00:04:13,186 --> 00:04:14,828\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法\n\n13\n00:04:41,630 --> 00:04:50,498\n而退府基金卻沒辦法這麼做。」跟委員報告,其實這個關於退府基金政府也是在撥補這幾年大概已經撥補了像捷宇的撥補是2074億那如果再加上這個軍人的撥補600億的時候也撥了2600多億\n\n14\n00:05:02,149 --> 00:05:04,691\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n\n15\n00:05:26,486 --> 00:05:47,960\n我覺得啦以公平性來說的話我覺得就是說既然這個老保基金可以用這樣的方式那我們退伍基金應該全序部也要想辦法是不是用什麼樣的方式喔那我想還有再來就是說請教這個馬次長啦就是說我們的這個新式身份數位身份證的換發到現在因為暫停嘛但是已經浪費了納稅人10億多啊那現在每年還要花6735萬來維護未來可能不會使用的這個設備啊\n\n16\n00:05:54,764 --> 00:05:59,508\n所以如果每年,既然我覺得這個數位身份證應該要趕快的來去決定說到底要不要繼續還是終止要不然每年花6千多萬再來撥補給現在可能未來都用不到的那如果把這筆錢省下來撥補給警察人員退休金使用的話是不是就可以呢?然後另外我想\n\n17\n00:06:18,105 --> 00:06:30,377\n其實我們有很多的錢都花在不該花的地方包括之前新冠肺炎疫苗的成本比其他的國家高了很多還有錯誤的能源政策我們每一度電要花12塊跟綠電業者買電所以導致台電到現在已經連續兩年虧損達5460億也是用撥補的也是政府撥補的\n\n18\n00:06:40,566 --> 00:06:42,247\n二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員\n\n19\n00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,021\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議等19人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9213\t18046\t謝謝主席我們請內政部馬次長全序部張次長警政署張署長跟消防署蕭署長麻煩\n20077\t24020\t警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正\n43974\t47578\t二）委員賴副總統在去年擔任副總統的時候也有針對我們的警察提高勤務加級的15%來回應這些堅守崗位讓我們的警察從政府成為人民的保姆的靠山\n62972\t65814\t條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n88342\t112234\t跟委員報告其實我們警消同仁我們把它分成三個部分一個就是說我們限職同仁的照顧那第二是所謂的撫恤第三個是退休那對於這三個部分我們有三個部分不同的一個照顧跟我們的設計那限職同仁的部分以警察來講我們目前已經有16項對於限職警察我現在針對的是退休的這個警消人員\n112814\t138502\t退休警校委員的部分是依照我們的立場就是說我們對於退休警校同仁的權益的提升這個我們絕對是同意的但是怎麼去提升怎麼樣能夠合理的然後能夠讓我們的措施跟國家的財政能夠做平衡這個需要去跟委員在討論所以次長原則上對於這個部分我們的修正條例您是同意的但就是至於什麼方式我們都可以再討論是嗎\n139682\t141824\t三草案．立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n156654\t172481\t對我剛有很多委員都這樣提的就是說我們對於限職跟退休都同樣會去做照顧那至於這一些今天修了這一條我們會跟相關的單位會來積極來做溝通協助來做積極處理謝謝那蕭署長\n178018\t204317\t感謝委員對消防的關心在過去的時間目前是有23個計畫274億的經費未來會投注在消防的工作上那昨天院長也批示一個就針對職業安全我們給消防人員的一個服務這是限制人員的部分當然對退職人員我們同樣盡量想溝通協調的方式來讓退職人員能夠得到相對的一個服務跟限制\n204437\t233340\t所以我想三位其實對於這個部分其實都有共識就是希望用協調的方式來去針對我們退休的警消人員能夠給予他們最大的一個協助那請問一下全序部我們張次長你好你好像全序部我看你們提出的報告是說提高警消等人員的退休所得替代率會引起其他人數眾多的其他公務人員的不滿嗎這確實是這樣的狀態因為大家都繳一樣的錢\n233840\t234140\t二）委員\n253186\t254828\t三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法\n281630\t290498\t而退府基金卻沒辦法這麼做。」跟委員報告,其實這個關於退府基金政府也是在撥補這幾年大概已經撥補了像捷宇的撥補是2074億那如果再加上這個軍人的撥補600億的時候也撥了2600多億\n302149\t304691\t二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n326486\t347960\t我覺得啦以公平性來說的話我覺得就是說既然這個老保基金可以用這樣的方式那我們退伍基金應該全序部也要想辦法是不是用什麼樣的方式喔那我想還有再來就是說請教這個馬次長啦就是說我們的這個新式身份數位身份證的換發到現在因為暫停嘛但是已經浪費了納稅人10億多啊那現在每年還要花6735萬來維護未來可能不會使用的這個設備啊\n354764\t359508\t所以如果每年,既然我覺得這個數位身份證應該要趕快的來去決定說到底要不要繼續還是終止要不然每年花6千多萬再來撥補給現在可能未來都用不到的那如果把這筆錢省下來撥補給警察人員退休金使用的話是不是就可以呢?然後另外我想\n378105\t390377\t其實我們有很多的錢都花在不該花的地方包括之前新冠肺炎疫苗的成本比其他的國家高了很多還有錯誤的能源政策我們每一度電要花12塊跟綠電業者買電所以導致台電到現在已經連續兩年虧損達5460億也是用撥補的也是政府撥補的\n400566\t402247\t二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員\n428240\t431021\t條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議等19人擬具\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請內政部馬次長全序部張次長警政署張署長跟消防署蕭署長麻煩\n警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正\n二）委員賴副總統在去年擔任副總統的時候也有針對我們的警察提高勤務加級的15%來回應這些堅守崗位讓我們的警察從政府成為人民的保姆的靠山\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n跟委員報告其實我們警消同仁我們把它分成三個部分一個就是說我們限職同仁的照顧那第二是所謂的撫恤第三個是退休那對於這三個部分我們有三個部分不同的一個照顧跟我們的設計那限職同仁的部分以警察來講我們目前已經有16項對於限職警察我現在針對的是退休的這個警消人員\n退休警校委員的部分是依照我們的立場就是說我們對於退休警校同仁的權益的提升這個我們絕對是同意的但是怎麼去提升怎麼樣能夠合理的然後能夠讓我們的措施跟國家的財政能夠做平衡這個需要去跟委員在討論所以次長原則上對於這個部分我們的修正條例您是同意的但就是至於什麼方式我們都可以再討論是嗎\n三草案．立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n對我剛有很多委員都這樣提的就是說我們對於限職跟退休都同樣會去做照顧那至於這一些今天修了這一條我們會跟相關的單位會來積極來做溝通協助來做積極處理謝謝那蕭署長\n感謝委員對消防的關心在過去的時間目前是有23個計畫274億的經費未來會投注在消防的工作上那昨天院長也批示一個就針對職業安全我們給消防人員的一個服務這是限制人員的部分當然對退職人員我們同樣盡量想溝通協調的方式來讓退職人員能夠得到相對的一個服務跟限制\n所以我想三位其實對於這個部分其實都有共識就是希望用協調的方式來去針對我們退休的警消人員能夠給予他們最大的一個協助那請問一下全序部我們張次長你好你好像全序部我看你們提出的報告是說提高警消等人員的退休所得替代率會引起其他人數眾多的其他公務人員的不滿嗎這確實是這樣的狀態因為大家都繳一樣的錢\n二）委員\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法\n而退府基金卻沒辦法這麼做。」跟委員報告,其實這個關於退府基金政府也是在撥補這幾年大概已經撥補了像捷宇的撥補是2074億那如果再加上這個軍人的撥補600億的時候也撥了2600多億\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n我覺得啦以公平性來說的話我覺得就是說既然這個老保基金可以用這樣的方式那我們退伍基金應該全序部也要想辦法是不是用什麼樣的方式喔那我想還有再來就是說請教這個馬次長啦就是說我們的這個新式身份數位身份證的換發到現在因為暫停嘛但是已經浪費了納稅人10億多啊那現在每年還要花6735萬來維護未來可能不會使用的這個設備啊\n所以如果每年,既然我覺得這個數位身份證應該要趕快的來去決定說到底要不要繼續還是終止要不然每年花6千多萬再來撥補給現在可能未來都用不到的那如果把這筆錢省下來撥補給警察人員退休金使用的話是不是就可以呢?然後另外我想\n其實我們有很多的錢都花在不該花的地方包括之前新冠肺炎疫苗的成本比其他的國家高了很多還有錯誤的能源政策我們每一度電要花12塊跟綠電業者買電所以導致台電到現在已經連續兩年虧損達5460億也是用撥補的也是政府撥補的\n二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員\n條文及增訂附表三草案．立法院第11屆第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議等19人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.213 --> 00:18.046\n謝謝主席我們請內政部馬次長全序部張次長警政署張署長跟消防署蕭署長麻煩\n\n00:20.077 --> 00:24.020\n警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正\n\n00:43.974 --> 00:47.578\n二）委員賴副總統在去年擔任副總統的時候也有針對我們的警察提高勤務加級的15%來回應這些堅守崗位讓我們的警察從政府成為人民的保姆的靠山\n\n01:02.972 --> 01:05.814\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n01:28.342 --> 01:52.234\n跟委員報告其實我們警消同仁我們把它分成三個部分一個就是說我們限職同仁的照顧那第二是所謂的撫恤第三個是退休那對於這三個部分我們有三個部分不同的一個照顧跟我們的設計那限職同仁的部分以警察來講我們目前已經有16項對於限職警察我現在針對的是退休的這個警消人員\n\n01:52.814 --> 02:18.502\n退休警校委員的部分是依照我們的立場就是說我們對於退休警校同仁的權益的提升這個我們絕對是同意的但是怎麼去提升怎麼樣能夠合理的然後能夠讓我們的措施跟國家的財政能夠做平衡這個需要去跟委員在討論所以次長原則上對於這個部分我們的修正條例您是同意的但就是至於什麼方式我們都可以再討論是嗎\n\n02:19.682 --> 02:21.824\n三草案．立法院第11會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議\n\n02:36.654 --> 02:52.481\n對我剛有很多委員都這樣提的就是說我們對於限職跟退休都同樣會去做照顧那至於這一些今天修了這一條我們會跟相關的單位會來積極來做溝通協助來做積極處理謝謝那蕭署長\n\n02:58.018 --> 03:24.317\n感謝委員對消防的關心在過去的時間目前是有23個計畫274億的經費未來會投注在消防的工作上那昨天院長也批示一個就針對職業安全我們給消防人員的一個服務這是限制人員的部分當然對退職人員我們同樣盡量想溝通協調的方式來讓退職人員能夠得到相對的一個服務跟限制\n\n03:24.437 --> 03:53.340\n所以我想三位其實對於這個部分其實都有共識就是希望用協調的方式來去針對我們退休的警消人員能夠給予他們最大的一個協助那請問一下全序部我們張次長你好你好像全序部我看你們提出的報告是說提高警消等人員的退休所得替代率會引起其他人數眾多的其他公務人員的不滿嗎這確實是這樣的狀態因為大家都繳一樣的錢\n\n03:53.840 --> 03:54.140\n二）委員\n\n04:13.186 --> 04:14.828\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法制及法\n\n04:41.630 --> 04:50.498\n而退府基金卻沒辦法這麼做。」跟委員報告,其實這個關於退府基金政府也是在撥補這幾年大概已經撥補了像捷宇的撥補是2074億那如果再加上這個軍人的撥補600億的時候也撥了2600多億\n\n05:02.149 --> 05:04.691\n二）委員蘇清泉等19人擬具:「警察人員人事條例修正草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議\n\n05:26.486 --> 05:47.960\n我覺得啦以公平性來說的話我覺得就是說既然這個老保基金可以用這樣的方式那我們退伍基金應該全序部也要想辦法是不是用什麼樣的方式喔那我想還有再來就是說請教這個馬次長啦就是說我們的這個新式身份數位身份證的換發到現在因為暫停嘛但是已經浪費了納稅人10億多啊那現在每年還要花6735萬來維護未來可能不會使用的這個設備啊\n\n05:54.764 --> 05:59.508\n所以如果每年,既然我覺得這個數位身份證應該要趕快的來去決定說到底要不要繼續還是終止要不然每年花6千多萬再來撥補給現在可能未來都用不到的那如果把這筆錢省下來撥補給警察人員退休金使用的話是不是就可以呢?然後另外我想\n\n06:18.105 --> 06:30.377\n其實我們有很多的錢都花在不該花的地方包括之前新冠肺炎疫苗的成本比其他的國家高了很多還有錯誤的能源政策我們每一度電要花12塊跟綠電業者買電所以導致台電到現在已經連續兩年虧損達5460億也是用撥補的也是政府撥補的\n\n06:40.566 --> 06:42.247\n二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員馬次長等二）委員\n\n07:08.240 --> 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