{"id":154008,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154008","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba02919d41191c7b8308ff7e0bc1ebc50211d141634ad16f55f7e7c4e88479a19625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"12:28:08 - 12:35:43","影片長度":"00:07:35","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T12:28:08+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T12:35:43+08:00","duration":455,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,15],"id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":960,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（12時28分）謝謝主席，本席請銓敘部張次長，還有警政署張署長。"],["主席：請張次長及張署長。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有消防署蕭署長。"],["主席：請蕭署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["張次長秋元：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：張次長，恭喜您高升次長，我們好像十幾年前在新竹縣議會……"],["張次長秋元：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您那時候是人事處長。"],["張次長秋元：鏡蘭秘書非常照顧，非常感謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：先恭喜您。今天想跟您討論，我們今天是談警察人事條例，內容包含警消，首先第一個就是同工同酬跟不同工不同酬，您認同吧？"],["張次長秋元：對，同工同酬，不同工不同酬。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的警消人員和一般坐辦公室的公務員……"],["張次長秋元：制度上設計是不同的，我剛剛有報告過，等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明。"],["徐委員欣瑩：您認同嘛。"],["張次長秋元：我們現制也是這樣在處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我發現你們的報告有寫，就是銓敘部的報告，他們雖然有比較高，但他們工作的危險性和勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。"],["張次長秋元：這應該是整體面的，我們是就我們人事制度的部分做了哪些事，剛才署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上、配備上、整個的執勤方式應該有更多的配套讓警消同仁能夠有更好的保障。"],["徐委員欣瑩：配備歸配備，但對於警消人員應有的照顧和福利，我們不能忽視，就是不能同等於一般公務人員。"],["張次長秋元：我們的態度是一般公務人員跟警消，警消方面我剛才已經表態過了，我非常尊敬警消的同仁夥伴。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是啊，我們都是。"],["張次長秋元：對我們來講，公務人員和警消人員，其實手心是肉、手背也是肉，我們必須要有一個衡平的對待。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你就先到這裡。公務人員有週休二日，還有國定假日、休假、加班補休，可是警消是輪班制，甚至常常出勤要熬夜，他們還支援非警勤務，最重要的是他們都是冒著生命危險在執勤，所以首先你還要瞭解到，我請兩位署長上來就是說，既然次長說薪水這麼優渥，對他們的照顧好像已經比較好了，我請警政署長和消防署長分別簡答，為什麼警消缺額的問題一直沒有辦法解決？為什麼那麼少人想要去？警消加給這麼多，可是離職這麼多，而且還有提前申請退休等等，多做幾年不是更好，領更多。"],["張次長秋元：報告委員，跟委員搶一點點時間。我們的統計，這幾年警消的退休是一個比較常態的現象，每年大概一千六百多人到1,800人，它是一個穩定的狀態，所以剛剛提到所謂退休潮等等……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這幾年人就一直不足，警消人員都不足，你聽一下警政署和消防署的聲音好不好？"],["張次長秋元：我們這端的統計資料呈現出來就是這樣的狀態，我們可以把數據提供給您。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。請署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。警察的工作不同於其他一般的公務人員，真的是非常繁重。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，危險。"],["張署長榮興：除了本身的工作之外，有危險性、不特定性而且是在輪班，生活步調紊亂，不是只有本身的工作，還有其他機關的職務協助。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，非警勤務。"],["張署長榮興：佔的非常多，所以有些在退休的考慮上可能有時候就是因為經年累月受不了，可能就是提早退休。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的立場，尤其時代的變化，我們看到警消人員都非常辛苦，當然我們警察人員更是，消防人員是有勤務的時候來協助，但是警察平常打擊犯罪等各方面非常辛苦且危險，所以我覺得給他好的退休制度、好的退休金制度，還有薪水高一點，我認為不能按照一般公務人員來看待。警政署署長有回答了，有關消防人員，蕭署長你簡單答10秒。"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員，我們消防人員去年本來要進用1,000位，考試通過300位。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個我在內政委員會問過你了，你不用講。"],["蕭署長煥章：所以未來的幾年，1,000位跟400位是同樣會進駐。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我指的是消防人員工作上的辛苦。"],["蕭署長煥章：當然消防人員工作相當辛苦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：而且危險。"],["蕭署長煥章：隨時因應勤務狀況需要出勤，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：次長，10年前警察號稱8萬大軍，現在剩下7萬，人手變少但勤務增加，加上社會變遷，他們都非常的辛苦。所以我們還是希望，如果真的要講到整體，當然我相信很多委員也有講，整個整體，我們有為的、廉能的政府，錢是絕對可以替民眾、對各行各業來想辦法，但是我也認同要合理，這個合理就在於我們大家要共同來看，我們對警消人員的照顧是不夠的，我們希望對他們能夠更好，所以這個部分也希望次長能夠重視，本席今天就特別跟你談，針對警消我們本來就不一樣。最後表達的就是有關年金改革，其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員，怎麼可以違反信賴保護原則？只是這個部分在過去，過去8年我們不談，所以……"],["張次長秋元：報告委員，經過大法官會議解釋……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你自己也是公務人員，我們就是對不起軍公教。"],["張次長秋元：我們事實上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你如果要改革，可以，但是不能溯及既往，這個是最重要的原則。今天談警察人事條例的部分，我們是針對警消的辛苦跟危險，我們一定要重視，所以他們的照顧我覺得是可以加權、可以加重的，就這樣，謝謝。"],["張次長秋元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條\n條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(十一)委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員\n張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136301_00011"}},"transcript":{"id":"154008","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154008","tool":"pyannote","id":"154008-pyannote"},"job_id":"9f82XCKZ80gjxzdN","queued_at":"2024-06-13 12:54:52","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-13 12:54:54","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154008"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:54:55","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba02919d41191c7b8308ff7e0bc1ebc50211d141634ad16f55f59150aba81ea48815ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:55:11","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:55:12","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-13 12:55:22","msg":"status: 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00:01:24,276\n同工同酬跟不同工不同酬您認同吧?對,同工同酬不同工不同酬所以我們的警消人員啊他們跟我們一般公務員做辦公室是不一樣嘛是不一樣,我剛剛有報告過等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明您認同嘛,所以\n\n4\n00:01:24,997 --> 00:01:28,480\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議等27人擬具\n\n5\n00:01:41,972 --> 00:02:09,575\n工作的危險性還有他們的這種勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。這個應該是整體面的我們是就我們這個人事制度的部分做了哪些事。那剛剛其實署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上配備上啦他整個的一個這個執勤的方式上面其實應該有更多的配套讓這個我們警消通人能夠有更好的保障。\n\n6\n00:02:09,940 --> 00:02:09,980\n二）委員\n\n7\n00:02:29,764 --> 00:02:31,746\n公務人員有週休二日還有國定假日休假加班補休\n\n8\n00:02:48,206 --> 00:02:48,346\n二）委員\n\n9\n00:03:07,725 --> 00:03:07,925\n二）委員\n\n10\n00:03:25,525 --> 00:03:44,714\n為什麼那麼少人想要去然後這個錦霄呢他加擠這麼多可是離職這麼多那而且提前申請退休等等那多做幾年不是更好領更多啊所以這一塊不用你答就是我們的統計其實這幾年錦霄的退休是一個比較常態的現象的狀態但是每年大概1600多人到1800他是一個穩定的狀態\n\n11\n00:03:54,679 --> 00:03:57,563\n這幾年穩定這幾年人就一直不足啊警消人都不足嘛所以你聽一下警政署跟消防署的聲音好不好我們可以把數據提供給你對對對對好來欸署長委員好\n\n12\n00:04:09,901 --> 00:04:10,522\n警察人員人事條例第三\n\n13\n00:04:28,603 --> 00:04:53,808\n對非警勤務所以有一些要他在退休的這個考慮上他可能有時候就是因為他今年累月他可能受不了他就可能就是提早退休我們的立場是我們警察尤其時代的變化我們看到真的警消人員都非常辛苦那當然我們警察人員更是那這個消防人員是有勤務的時候來這個\n\n14\n00:04:56,860 --> 00:05:00,761\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n15\n00:05:27,244 --> 00:05:36,627\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（\n\n16\n00:05:53,311 --> 00:06:07,142\n我們十年前警察號稱八萬大軍現在剩下七萬人手變少但勤務增加加上社會變遷他們都非常的辛苦所以我們還是希望就是說\n\n17\n00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:33,021\n如果真的要講到整體那當然我相信很多委員也有講這整個整體我們有為的連人的政府那個錢是絕對可以替我們民眾對我們各行各業來想辦法但是我也認同是要合理那這個合理就是在於我們大家要共同來看我們對警察對警消人員我們的照顧是不夠的\n\n18\n00:06:34,002 --> 00:07:01,340\n我們希望可以對他們能夠更好所以這個部分我們也希望次長這裡能夠重視我們今天本席就特別跟你特別談就是說你針對警消我們本來就不一樣那最後我表達就是說有關年金改革其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員怎麼可以違反信賴保障原則\n\n19\n00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:30,617\n只是這一個部分在過去這個這過去八年這我們不談但是所以所以這一塊就是你自己也是公務人員就我們就是對不起這個軍公教你如果要改革可以你不能溯及既往這個是最重要原則那我們今天談這個警察的這個條例這個人事條例的部分所以我們是針對警消他們的這種辛苦跟危險我們一定要重視所以他們\n\n20\n00:07:31,437 --> 00:07:32,641\n條文及增訂附表三草案案案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11501\t13343\t三草案案案案案案案案案案案案\n35998\t60666\t我們好像十幾年前在新竹縣議會,您那時候是人事處長。竟然秘書非常照顧我,非常感謝。先恭喜您,但是今天想跟您來討論,因為我們今天是談警察人事條例,包含警消,這個內容包含警消。首先第一個就是說,\n62165\t84276\t同工同酬跟不同工不同酬您認同吧?對,同工同酬不同工不同酬所以我們的警消人員啊他們跟我們一般公務員做辦公室是不一樣嘛是不一樣,我剛剛有報告過等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明您認同嘛,所以\n84997\t88480\t三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議等27人擬具\n101972\t129575\t工作的危險性還有他們的這種勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。這個應該是整體面的我們是就我們這個人事制度的部分做了哪些事。那剛剛其實署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上配備上啦他整個的一個這個執勤的方式上面其實應該有更多的配套讓這個我們警消通人能夠有更好的保障。\n129940\t129980\t二）委員\n149764\t151746\t公務人員有週休二日還有國定假日休假加班補休\n168206\t168346\t二）委員\n187725\t187925\t二）委員\n205525\t224714\t為什麼那麼少人想要去然後這個錦霄呢他加擠這麼多可是離職這麼多那而且提前申請退休等等那多做幾年不是更好領更多啊所以這一塊不用你答就是我們的統計其實這幾年錦霄的退休是一個比較常態的現象的狀態但是每年大概1600多人到1800他是一個穩定的狀態\n234679\t237563\t這幾年穩定這幾年人就一直不足啊警消人都不足嘛所以你聽一下警政署跟消防署的聲音好不好我們可以把數據提供給你對對對對好來欸署長委員好\n249901\t250522\t警察人員人事條例第三\n268603\t293808\t對非警勤務所以有一些要他在退休的這個考慮上他可能有時候就是因為他今年累月他可能受不了他就可能就是提早退休我們的立場是我們警察尤其時代的變化我們看到真的警消人員都非常辛苦那當然我們警察人員更是那這個消防人員是有勤務的時候來這個\n296860\t300761\t條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n327244\t336627\t條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（\n353311\t367142\t我們十年前警察號稱八萬大軍現在剩下七萬人手變少但勤務增加加上社會變遷他們都非常的辛苦所以我們還是希望就是說\n368260\t393021\t如果真的要講到整體那當然我相信很多委員也有講這整個整體我們有為的連人的政府那個錢是絕對可以替我們民眾對我們各行各業來想辦法但是我也認同是要合理那這個合理就是在於我們大家要共同來看我們對警察對警消人員我們的照顧是不夠的\n394002\t421340\t我們希望可以對他們能夠更好所以這個部分我們也希望次長這裡能夠重視我們今天本席就特別跟你特別談就是說你針對警消我們本來就不一樣那最後我表達就是說有關年金改革其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員怎麼可以違反信賴保障原則\n422040\t450617\t只是這一個部分在過去這個這過去八年這我們不談但是所以所以這一塊就是你自己也是公務人員就我們就是對不起這個軍公教你如果要改革可以你不能溯及既往這個是最重要原則那我們今天談這個警察的這個條例這個人事條例的部分所以我們是針對警消他們的這種辛苦跟危險我們一定要重視所以他們\n451437\t452641\t條文及增訂附表三草案案 案。\n","txt":"三草案案案案案案案案案案案案\n我們好像十幾年前在新竹縣議會,您那時候是人事處長。竟然秘書非常照顧我,非常感謝。先恭喜您,但是今天想跟您來討論,因為我們今天是談警察人事條例,包含警消,這個內容包含警消。首先第一個就是說,\n同工同酬跟不同工不同酬您認同吧?對,同工同酬不同工不同酬所以我們的警消人員啊他們跟我們一般公務員做辦公室是不一樣嘛是不一樣,我剛剛有報告過等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明您認同嘛,所以\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議等27人擬具\n工作的危險性還有他們的這種勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。這個應該是整體面的我們是就我們這個人事制度的部分做了哪些事。那剛剛其實署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上配備上啦他整個的一個這個執勤的方式上面其實應該有更多的配套讓這個我們警消通人能夠有更好的保障。\n二）委員\n公務人員有週休二日還有國定假日休假加班補休\n二）委員\n二）委員\n為什麼那麼少人想要去然後這個錦霄呢他加擠這麼多可是離職這麼多那而且提前申請退休等等那多做幾年不是更好領更多啊所以這一塊不用你答就是我們的統計其實這幾年錦霄的退休是一個比較常態的現象的狀態但是每年大概1600多人到1800他是一個穩定的狀態\n這幾年穩定這幾年人就一直不足啊警消人都不足嘛所以你聽一下警政署跟消防署的聲音好不好我們可以把數據提供給你對對對對好來欸署長委員好\n警察人員人事條例第三\n對非警勤務所以有一些要他在退休的這個考慮上他可能有時候就是因為他今年累月他可能受不了他就可能就是提早退休我們的立場是我們警察尤其時代的變化我們看到真的警消人員都非常辛苦那當然我們警察人員更是那這個消防人員是有勤務的時候來這個\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（\n我們十年前警察號稱八萬大軍現在剩下七萬人手變少但勤務增加加上社會變遷他們都非常的辛苦所以我們還是希望就是說\n如果真的要講到整體那當然我相信很多委員也有講這整個整體我們有為的連人的政府那個錢是絕對可以替我們民眾對我們各行各業來想辦法但是我也認同是要合理那這個合理就是在於我們大家要共同來看我們對警察對警消人員我們的照顧是不夠的\n我們希望可以對他們能夠更好所以這個部分我們也希望次長這裡能夠重視我們今天本席就特別跟你特別談就是說你針對警消我們本來就不一樣那最後我表達就是說有關年金改革其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員怎麼可以違反信賴保障原則\n只是這一個部分在過去這個這過去八年這我們不談但是所以所以這一塊就是你自己也是公務人員就我們就是對不起這個軍公教你如果要改革可以你不能溯及既往這個是最重要原則那我們今天談這個警察的這個條例這個人事條例的部分所以我們是針對警消他們的這種辛苦跟危險我們一定要重視所以他們\n條文及增訂附表三草案案 案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.501 --> 00:13.343\n三草案案案案案案案案案案案案\n\n00:35.998 --> 01:00.666\n我們好像十幾年前在新竹縣議會,您那時候是人事處長。竟然秘書非常照顧我,非常感謝。先恭喜您,但是今天想跟您來討論,因為我們今天是談警察人事條例,包含警消,這個內容包含警消。首先第一個就是說,\n\n01:02.165 --> 01:24.276\n同工同酬跟不同工不同酬您認同吧?對,同工同酬不同工不同酬所以我們的警消人員啊他們跟我們一般公務員做辦公室是不一樣嘛是不一樣,我剛剛有報告過等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明您認同嘛,所以\n\n01:24.997 --> 01:28.480\n三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議等27人擬具\n\n01:41.972 --> 02:09.575\n工作的危險性還有他們的這種勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。這個應該是整體面的我們是就我們這個人事制度的部分做了哪些事。那剛剛其實署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上配備上啦他整個的一個這個執勤的方式上面其實應該有更多的配套讓這個我們警消通人能夠有更好的保障。\n\n02:09.940 --> 02:09.980\n二）委員\n\n02:29.764 --> 02:31.746\n公務人員有週休二日還有國定假日休假加班補休\n\n02:48.206 --> 02:48.346\n二）委員\n\n03:07.725 --> 03:07.925\n二）委員\n\n03:25.525 --> 03:44.714\n為什麼那麼少人想要去然後這個錦霄呢他加擠這麼多可是離職這麼多那而且提前申請退休等等那多做幾年不是更好領更多啊所以這一塊不用你答就是我們的統計其實這幾年錦霄的退休是一個比較常態的現象的狀態但是每年大概1600多人到1800他是一個穩定的狀態\n\n03:54.679 --> 03:57.563\n這幾年穩定這幾年人就一直不足啊警消人都不足嘛所以你聽一下警政署跟消防署的聲音好不好我們可以把數據提供給你對對對對好來欸署長委員好\n\n04:09.901 --> 04:10.522\n警察人員人事條例第三\n\n04:28.603 --> 04:53.808\n對非警勤務所以有一些要他在退休的這個考慮上他可能有時候就是因為他今年累月他可能受不了他就可能就是提早退休我們的立場是我們警察尤其時代的變化我們看到真的警消人員都非常辛苦那當然我們警察人員更是那這個消防人員是有勤務的時候來這個\n\n04:56.860 --> 05:00.761\n條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及\n\n05:27.244 --> 05:36.627\n條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（\n\n05:53.311 --> 06:07.142\n我們十年前警察號稱八萬大軍現在剩下七萬人手變少但勤務增加加上社會變遷他們都非常的辛苦所以我們還是希望就是說\n\n06:08.260 --> 06:33.021\n如果真的要講到整體那當然我相信很多委員也有講這整個整體我們有為的連人的政府那個錢是絕對可以替我們民眾對我們各行各業來想辦法但是我也認同是要合理那這個合理就是在於我們大家要共同來看我們對警察對警消人員我們的照顧是不夠的\n\n06:34.002 --> 07:01.340\n我們希望可以對他們能夠更好所以這個部分我們也希望次長這裡能夠重視我們今天本席就特別跟你特別談就是說你針對警消我們本來就不一樣那最後我表達就是說有關年金改革其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員怎麼可以違反信賴保障原則\n\n07:02.040 --> 07:30.617\n只是這一個部分在過去這個這過去八年這我們不談但是所以所以這一塊就是你自己也是公務人員就我們就是對不起這個軍公教你如果要改革可以你不能溯及既往這個是最重要原則那我們今天談這個警察的這個條例這個人事條例的部分所以我們是針對警消他們的這種辛苦跟危險我們一定要重視所以他們\n\n07:31.437 --> 07:32.641\n條文及增訂附表三草案案案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.501,"end":13.343,"text":"三草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":35.998,"end":60.666,"text":"我們好像十幾年前在新竹縣議會,您那時候是人事處長。竟然秘書非常照顧我,非常感謝。先恭喜您,但是今天想跟您來討論,因為我們今天是談警察人事條例,包含警消,這個內容包含警消。首先第一個就是說,"},{"start":62.165,"end":84.276,"text":"同工同酬跟不同工不同酬您認同吧?對,同工同酬不同工不同酬所以我們的警消人員啊他們跟我們一般公務員做辦公室是不一樣嘛是不一樣,我剛剛有報告過等一下我可以再跟委員做比較詳細的說明您認同嘛,所以"},{"start":84.997,"end":88.48,"text":"三草案．立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議等27人擬具"},{"start":101.972,"end":129.575,"text":"工作的危險性還有他們的這種勞動性的程度跟一般公務人員就是不一樣。這個應該是整體面的我們是就我們這個人事制度的部分做了哪些事。那剛剛其實署長那邊也有說了很多在工作上配備上啦他整個的一個這個執勤的方式上面其實應該有更多的配套讓這個我們警消通人能夠有更好的保障。"},{"start":129.94,"end":129.98,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":149.764,"end":151.746,"text":"公務人員有週休二日還有國定假日休假加班補休"},{"start":168.206,"end":168.346,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":187.725,"end":187.925,"text":"二）委員"},{"start":205.525,"end":224.714,"text":"為什麼那麼少人想要去然後這個錦霄呢他加擠這麼多可是離職這麼多那而且提前申請退休等等那多做幾年不是更好領更多啊所以這一塊不用你答就是我們的統計其實這幾年錦霄的退休是一個比較常態的現象的狀態但是每年大概1600多人到1800他是一個穩定的狀態"},{"start":234.679,"end":237.563,"text":"這幾年穩定這幾年人就一直不足啊警消人都不足嘛所以你聽一下警政署跟消防署的聲音好不好我們可以把數據提供給你對對對對好來欸署長委員好"},{"start":249.901,"end":250.522,"text":"警察人員人事條例第三"},{"start":268.603,"end":293.808,"text":"對非警勤務所以有一些要他在退休的這個考慮上他可能有時候就是因為他今年累月他可能受不了他就可能就是提早退休我們的立場是我們警察尤其時代的變化我們看到真的警消人員都非常辛苦那當然我們警察人員更是那這個消防人員是有勤務的時候來這個"},{"start":296.86,"end":300.761,"text":"條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及增訂一條條文及"},{"start":327.244,"end":336.627,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（事條例修正條文及增訂附表三草案（"},{"start":353.311,"end":367.142,"text":"我們十年前警察號稱八萬大軍現在剩下七萬人手變少但勤務增加加上社會變遷他們都非常的辛苦所以我們還是希望就是說"},{"start":368.26,"end":393.021,"text":"如果真的要講到整體那當然我相信很多委員也有講這整個整體我們有為的連人的政府那個錢是絕對可以替我們民眾對我們各行各業來想辦法但是我也認同是要合理那這個合理就是在於我們大家要共同來看我們對警察對警消人員我們的照顧是不夠的"},{"start":394.002,"end":421.34,"text":"我們希望可以對他們能夠更好所以這個部分我們也希望次長這裡能夠重視我們今天本席就特別跟你特別談就是說你針對警消我們本來就不一樣那最後我表達就是說有關年金改革其實年金改革也是對不起軍公教人員怎麼可以違反信賴保障原則"},{"start":422.04,"end":450.617,"text":"只是這一個部分在過去這個這過去八年這我們不談但是所以所以這一塊就是你自己也是公務人員就我們就是對不起這個軍公教你如果要改革可以你不能溯及既往這個是最重要原則那我們今天談這個警察的這個條例這個人事條例的部分所以我們是針對警消他們的這種辛苦跟危險我們一定要重視所以他們"},{"start":451.437,"end":452.641,"text":"條文及增訂附表三草案案 案。"}]}}}}