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14:28:07","影片長度":"00:06:22","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長李孟諺列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-13","start_time":"2024-06-13T14:21:45+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-13T14:28:07+08:00","duration":382,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1151,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（14時21分）請李部長。"],["主席：請李部長。"],["李部長孟諺：委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，在交通部裡面，其實我們知道觀光的業務，也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對？"],["李部長孟諺：是。"],["洪委員申翰：我想請問部長，你知道我們今年的障礙者人數，在臺灣現在已經到多少人數了？"],["李部長孟諺：你說在……"],["洪委員申翰：障礙者，身心障礙者的人數。"],["李部長孟諺：全國的總數嗎？"],["洪委員申翰：整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了，我想問部長，你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利？"],["李部長孟諺：是。"],["洪委員申翰：應該是嘛！"],["李部長孟諺：我想相關的設施也都有儘量的要求，有無障礙設施的通行。"],["洪委員申翰：在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嘛！"],["李部長孟諺：對。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們辦公室收到很多陳情，他們來表達，不管是臺鐵的鳴日號觀光列車，或者是林鐵處的栩悅號、福森號，目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂。這讓很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者，完全沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源。而且大家都知道，我們的社會正在老齡化，未來需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多，不會少。","部長，我知道這幾個觀光列車，目前我們去查了，他們沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法，我們去查了都不算違法。臺鐵也跟我們說，是，因為並沒有違法，所以目前臺鐵並不想動，但是這些觀光列車其實都是用公務預算去興建、去建設的。部長覺得使用人民的納稅錢，但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求，部長覺得這合不合理？"],["李部長孟諺：是，我跟委員報告，其實臺鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯，另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高，儘量讓月台進出車廂……"],["洪委員申翰：是，部長，但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車……"],["李部長孟諺：我請董事長跟委員報告一下。"],["洪委員申翰：鳴日號、林鐵處的栩悅號，這都沒有啊！"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，其實剛剛委員提到的，像鳴日號，這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的。"],["洪委員申翰：是。"],["杜董事長微：如果說要把它變成無障，那幾乎整個車都要拆掉。但是也跟委員報告，我們今年開始，年底前會上線的山嵐、海風號，這個我們就已經有充分的無障設施，可以提供給身障的朋友，來做鐵道觀光旅遊之用。後面新設計的列車也都會有……"],["洪委員申翰：董事長，因為我們這邊收到的訊息是，其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久。"],["杜董事長微：是。"],["洪委員申翰：甚至也有很多去陳情的行動，可是你們現在都是說，因為這都是觀光列車，所以沒有無障礙設施，沒有違法。沒有錯，身權法上面是規定，只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位，但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具。可是我剛才問部長，我在一開始的時候問部長，障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利？"],["李部長孟諺：應該的。"],["洪委員申翰：應該嘛！所以這恐怕不是只是用有沒有違法來看待這件事情。"],["李部長孟諺：是的。"],["洪委員申翰：之前臺鐵的回復都是沒有違法，所以我們就不動。"],["杜董事長微：跟委員報告，這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這部分，我們會充分設想。"],["洪委員申翰：部長我要跟你報告，其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是臺鐵，他們其實在上路前都必須經過交通部，依據地方營民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准。但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求，車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位。其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞，這也變成我們反映相關行政部會的時候，他會說這上面並沒有規定，用這個來閃避這方面的要求。","所以部長我可不可以要求？我就只講在三個月內，是不是可以請臺鐵來評估，我們現行觀光列車來增設，或者是用其他的方式增加。不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施，也許老舊、也許新的，但總是可以找得到方案，能夠讓輪椅族可以有條件上去，跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源，這是第一點。","第二點，我們是希望能夠檢討，現在發展大眾運輸條例，以及地方營民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面，應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具，要求增設無障礙座位，直接就定到這辦法裡面，把我們法規上的漏洞給補上。部長，這應該沒有問題吧？"],["李部長孟諺：是，我們來評估鳴日號有沒有機會，三個月內評估的結果再公布。"],["洪委員申翰：三個月內好不好？這兩個部分。"],["李部長孟諺：條例的部分我們來看怎麼補它的不足。"],["洪委員申翰：條例應該是可以修吧？對不對？我們一次把它修上去以後，未來假設再有新的觀光列車，也都必須比照這個規定。我們就該把它做起來，一開始在設計端就把它做起來，這更一勞永逸啊！"],["李部長孟諺：或是看有沒有什麼樣補救辦法。"],["洪委員申翰：是，三個月的時間應該是沒有問題，那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室。"],["李部長孟諺：是。"],["洪委員申翰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪申翰委員，洪申翰委員發言完畢。","現在請林倩綺委員，林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員不在。","請廖先翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-16","speakers":["李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林沛祥","林俊憲","何欣純","陳素月","葉元之","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","許智傑","蔡其昌","魯明哲","陳俊宇","鄭天財Sra 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,288 --> 00:00:07,070\n請李部長請李部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,557 --> 00:00:39,660\n國勇好部長這個在交通部裡面其實我們知道其實觀光的業務其實也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對是那我想請問部長部長你知不知道我們今年這個障礙者的人數在台灣其實已經現在大概多少人數了\n\n3\n00:00:40,958 --> 00:00:44,601\n障礙者障礙者身心障礙障礙者\n\n4\n00:00:50,493 --> 00:01:15,420\n全國的總數整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了那我想問部長是說你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利?應該是嗎?相關的設施也都有盡量的要求有無障礙的這個設施的通行在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嗎?部長我們辦公室受到很多澄清那他們來表達\n\n5\n00:01:17,241 --> 00:01:35,862\n不管是台鐵的明日號觀光列車或者是臨鐵處的這個許悅號或者是福森號目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂那這讓我們很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者完全沒有辦法提\n\n6\n00:01:37,150 --> 00:02:03,141\n沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源而且不要說大家都知道我們的社會正在老齡化未來會有需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多不會少不然我知道這幾個觀光列車目前我們去查了他沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法我們去查了都不算違法\n\n7\n00:02:04,366 --> 00:02:20,804\n那臺鐵呢也跟我們說是因為他並沒有違法所以目前臺北並不想動但是這些觀光列車呢他其實都是用公務預算來去興建的來去建設的\n\n8\n00:02:22,930 --> 00:02:46,724\n那部長覺得使用人民的納稅權喔使用人民的納稅錢喔但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求部長覺得這合不合理是我跟委員報告齁其實台鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯那另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高盡量讓這個月台進出這個車廂但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車我請董事長\n\n9\n00:02:51,087 --> 00:03:07,461\n明日號、臨鐵許願號這都沒有跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到的像明日號這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的如果說要把它變成無帳那幾乎整個車都要拆掉\n\n10\n00:03:08,061 --> 00:03:36,626\n那但是也跟委員報告我們今年開始我們會年底前會上線的我們的山南海峰這個我們就已經有充分的無障的設施可以提供給我們無障的朋友來做這個鐵道觀光旅遊之用後面新設計的列車也都會有部長因為我們這邊收到的訊息是其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久甚至也有很多去陳情的行動可是你們現在都是說\n\n11\n00:03:38,103 --> 00:03:43,375\n我們現在因為這都是觀光列車所以沒有無障礙設施沒有違法\n\n12\n00:03:44,042 --> 00:04:11,428\n沒有錯生權法上面是規定只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具可是我剛才問部長啊我在一開始的時候問部長啊障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利應該的應該嘛所以恐怕這不是只是用說有沒有違法來看待這件事情嘛是的所以之前台鐵的回覆都是沒有違法所以我們就不動\n\n13\n00:04:13,322 --> 00:04:33,764\n我想客委員報告這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這一部分我們會充分設想不然我要跟你報告其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是台鐵他們其實在上路前都必須要經過交通部依據地方營或民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准\n\n14\n00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:56,954\n但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞這也是變成是我們相關的行政部部會的時候他會說這上面並沒有規定用這個事情來去閃避這方面的要求所以部長我可不可以要求這個\n\n15\n00:04:59,275 --> 00:05:25,141\n我們就只講在三個月內是不是可以來請臺鐵來評估我們現行觀光列車來增設或者是用其他的方式來增加不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施也許老舊也許新的但總是可以找得到方案能夠讓輪椅族有條件可以上去跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源這是第一點\n\n16\n00:05:26,206 --> 00:05:46,198\n第二點我們是希望能夠檢討現在發展大眾運輸條例以及這個地方人民以及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具要求增設無障礙座位直接就訂到這辦法裡面把我們法規上面的漏洞給補上部長這應該沒有問題吧所以我們來評估這個明日號\n\n17\n00:05:49,940 --> 00:05:51,200\n三個月的時間應該是沒有問題那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:21,527 --> 00:06:21,548\n好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6288\t7070\t請李部長請李部長\n17557\t39660\t國勇好部長這個在交通部裡面其實我們知道其實觀光的業務其實也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對是那我想請問部長部長你知不知道我們今年這個障礙者的人數在台灣其實已經現在大概多少人數了\n40958\t44601\t障礙者障礙者身心障礙障礙者\n50493\t75420\t全國的總數整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了那我想問部長是說你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利?應該是嗎?相關的設施也都有盡量的要求有無障礙的這個設施的通行在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嗎?部長我們辦公室受到很多澄清那他們來表達\n77241\t95862\t不管是台鐵的明日號觀光列車或者是臨鐵處的這個許悅號或者是福森號目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂那這讓我們很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者完全沒有辦法提\n97150\t123141\t沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源而且不要說大家都知道我們的社會正在老齡化未來會有需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多不會少不然我知道這幾個觀光列車目前我們去查了他沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法我們去查了都不算違法\n124366\t140804\t那臺鐵呢也跟我們說是因為他並沒有違法所以目前臺北並不想動但是這些觀光列車呢他其實都是用公務預算來去興建的來去建設的\n142930\t166724\t那部長覺得使用人民的納稅權喔使用人民的納稅錢喔但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求部長覺得這合不合理是我跟委員報告齁其實台鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯那另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高盡量讓這個月台進出這個車廂但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車我請董事長\n171087\t187461\t明日號、臨鐵許願號這都沒有跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到的像明日號這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的如果說要把它變成無帳那幾乎整個車都要拆掉\n188061\t216626\t那但是也跟委員報告我們今年開始我們會年底前會上線的我們的山南海峰這個我們就已經有充分的無障的設施可以提供給我們無障的朋友來做這個鐵道觀光旅遊之用後面新設計的列車也都會有部長因為我們這邊收到的訊息是其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久甚至也有很多去陳情的行動可是你們現在都是說\n218103\t223375\t我們現在因為這都是觀光列車所以沒有無障礙設施沒有違法\n224042\t251428\t沒有錯 生權法上面是規定只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具可是我剛才問部長啊我在一開始的時候問部長啊障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利應該的應該嘛所以恐怕這不是只是用說有沒有違法來看待這件事情嘛是的所以之前台鐵的回覆都是沒有違法所以我們就不動\n253322\t273764\t我想客委員報告這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這一部分我們會充分設想不然我要跟你報告其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是台鐵他們其實在上路前都必須要經過交通部依據地方營或民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准\n274665\t296954\t但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞這也是變成是我們相關的行政部部會的時候他會說這上面並沒有規定用這個事情來去閃避這方面的要求所以部長我可不可以要求這個\n299275\t325141\t我們就只講在三個月內是不是可以來請臺鐵來評估我們現行觀光列車來增設或者是用其他的方式來增加不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施也許老舊也許新的但總是可以找得到方案能夠讓輪椅族有條件可以上去跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源這是第一點\n326206\t346198\t第二點我們是希望能夠檢討現在發展大眾運輸條例以及這個地方人民以及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具要求增設無障礙座位直接就訂到這辦法裡面把我們法規上面的漏洞給補上部長這應該沒有問題吧所以我們來評估這個明日號\n349940\t351200\t三個月的時間應該是沒有問題那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室謝謝\n381527\t381548\t好\n","txt":"請李部長請李部長\n國勇好部長這個在交通部裡面其實我們知道其實觀光的業務其實也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對是那我想請問部長部長你知不知道我們今年這個障礙者的人數在台灣其實已經現在大概多少人數了\n障礙者障礙者身心障礙障礙者\n全國的總數整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了那我想問部長是說你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利?應該是嗎?相關的設施也都有盡量的要求有無障礙的這個設施的通行在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嗎?部長我們辦公室受到很多澄清那他們來表達\n不管是台鐵的明日號觀光列車或者是臨鐵處的這個許悅號或者是福森號目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂那這讓我們很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者完全沒有辦法提\n沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源而且不要說大家都知道我們的社會正在老齡化未來會有需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多不會少不然我知道這幾個觀光列車目前我們去查了他沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法我們去查了都不算違法\n那臺鐵呢也跟我們說是因為他並沒有違法所以目前臺北並不想動但是這些觀光列車呢他其實都是用公務預算來去興建的來去建設的\n那部長覺得使用人民的納稅權喔使用人民的納稅錢喔但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求部長覺得這合不合理是我跟委員報告齁其實台鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯那另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高盡量讓這個月台進出這個車廂但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車我請董事長\n明日號、臨鐵許願號這都沒有跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到的像明日號這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的如果說要把它變成無帳那幾乎整個車都要拆掉\n那但是也跟委員報告我們今年開始我們會年底前會上線的我們的山南海峰這個我們就已經有充分的無障的設施可以提供給我們無障的朋友來做這個鐵道觀光旅遊之用後面新設計的列車也都會有部長因為我們這邊收到的訊息是其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久甚至也有很多去陳情的行動可是你們現在都是說\n我們現在因為這都是觀光列車所以沒有無障礙設施沒有違法\n沒有錯 生權法上面是規定只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具可是我剛才問部長啊我在一開始的時候問部長啊障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利應該的應該嘛所以恐怕這不是只是用說有沒有違法來看待這件事情嘛是的所以之前台鐵的回覆都是沒有違法所以我們就不動\n我想客委員報告這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這一部分我們會充分設想不然我要跟你報告其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是台鐵他們其實在上路前都必須要經過交通部依據地方營或民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准\n但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞這也是變成是我們相關的行政部部會的時候他會說這上面並沒有規定用這個事情來去閃避這方面的要求所以部長我可不可以要求這個\n我們就只講在三個月內是不是可以來請臺鐵來評估我們現行觀光列車來增設或者是用其他的方式來增加不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施也許老舊也許新的但總是可以找得到方案能夠讓輪椅族有條件可以上去跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源這是第一點\n第二點我們是希望能夠檢討現在發展大眾運輸條例以及這個地方人民以及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具要求增設無障礙座位直接就訂到這辦法裡面把我們法規上面的漏洞給補上部長這應該沒有問題吧所以我們來評估這個明日號\n三個月的時間應該是沒有問題那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室謝謝\n好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.288 --> 00:07.070\n請李部長請李部長\n\n00:17.557 --> 00:39.660\n國勇好部長這個在交通部裡面其實我們知道其實觀光的業務其實也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對是那我想請問部長部長你知不知道我們今年這個障礙者的人數在台灣其實已經現在大概多少人數了\n\n00:40.958 --> 00:44.601\n障礙者障礙者身心障礙障礙者\n\n00:50.493 --> 01:15.420\n全國的總數整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了那我想問部長是說你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利?應該是嗎?相關的設施也都有盡量的要求有無障礙的這個設施的通行在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嗎?部長我們辦公室受到很多澄清那他們來表達\n\n01:17.241 --> 01:35.862\n不管是台鐵的明日號觀光列車或者是臨鐵處的這個許悅號或者是福森號目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂那這讓我們很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者完全沒有辦法提\n\n01:37.150 --> 02:03.141\n沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源而且不要說大家都知道我們的社會正在老齡化未來會有需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多不會少不然我知道這幾個觀光列車目前我們去查了他沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法我們去查了都不算違法\n\n02:04.366 --> 02:20.804\n那臺鐵呢也跟我們說是因為他並沒有違法所以目前臺北並不想動但是這些觀光列車呢他其實都是用公務預算來去興建的來去建設的\n\n02:22.930 --> 02:46.724\n那部長覺得使用人民的納稅權喔使用人民的納稅錢喔但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求部長覺得這合不合理是我跟委員報告齁其實台鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯那另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高盡量讓這個月台進出這個車廂但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車我請董事長\n\n02:51.087 --> 03:07.461\n明日號、臨鐵許願號這都沒有跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到的像明日號這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的如果說要把它變成無帳那幾乎整個車都要拆掉\n\n03:08.061 --> 03:36.626\n那但是也跟委員報告我們今年開始我們會年底前會上線的我們的山南海峰這個我們就已經有充分的無障的設施可以提供給我們無障的朋友來做這個鐵道觀光旅遊之用後面新設計的列車也都會有部長因為我們這邊收到的訊息是其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久甚至也有很多去陳情的行動可是你們現在都是說\n\n03:38.103 --> 03:43.375\n我們現在因為這都是觀光列車所以沒有無障礙設施沒有違法\n\n03:44.042 --> 04:11.428\n沒有錯生權法上面是規定只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具可是我剛才問部長啊我在一開始的時候問部長啊障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利應該的應該嘛所以恐怕這不是只是用說有沒有違法來看待這件事情嘛是的所以之前台鐵的回覆都是沒有違法所以我們就不動\n\n04:13.322 --> 04:33.764\n我想客委員報告這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這一部分我們會充分設想不然我要跟你報告其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是台鐵他們其實在上路前都必須要經過交通部依據地方營或民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准\n\n04:34.665 --> 04:56.954\n但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞這也是變成是我們相關的行政部部會的時候他會說這上面並沒有規定用這個事情來去閃避這方面的要求所以部長我可不可以要求這個\n\n04:59.275 --> 05:25.141\n我們就只講在三個月內是不是可以來請臺鐵來評估我們現行觀光列車來增設或者是用其他的方式來增加不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施也許老舊也許新的但總是可以找得到方案能夠讓輪椅族有條件可以上去跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源這是第一點\n\n05:26.206 --> 05:46.198\n第二點我們是希望能夠檢討現在發展大眾運輸條例以及這個地方人民以及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具要求增設無障礙座位直接就訂到這辦法裡面把我們法規上面的漏洞給補上部長這應該沒有問題吧所以我們來評估這個明日號\n\n05:49.940 --> 05:51.200\n三個月的時間應該是沒有問題那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室謝謝\n\n06:21.527 --> 06:21.548\n好\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.288,"end":7.07,"text":"請李部長請李部長"},{"start":17.557,"end":39.66,"text":"國勇好部長這個在交通部裡面其實我們知道其實觀光的業務其實也是交通部非常非常重要的業務範疇對不對是那我想請問部長部長你知不知道我們今年這個障礙者的人數在台灣其實已經現在大概多少人數了"},{"start":40.958,"end":44.601,"text":"障礙者障礙者身心障礙障礙者"},{"start":50.493,"end":75.42,"text":"全國的總數整體人數現在已經突破120萬人了那我想問部長是說你覺得障礙者是不是應該也可以有平等觀光的權利?應該是嗎?相關的設施也都有盡量的要求有無障礙的這個設施的通行在觀光方面應該有平等的權利嗎?部長我們辦公室受到很多澄清那他們來表達"},{"start":77.241,"end":95.862,"text":"不管是台鐵的明日號觀光列車或者是臨鐵處的這個許悅號或者是福森號目前都沒有設置無障礙車廂那這讓我們很多需要使用輪椅的障礙者完全沒有辦法提"},{"start":97.15,"end":123.141,"text":"沒有辦法體驗這些觀光資源而且不要說大家都知道我們的社會正在老齡化未來會有需要用到輪椅的長者只會越來越多不會少不然我知道這幾個觀光列車目前我們去查了他沒有無障礙的車廂目前都不算違法我們去查了都不算違法"},{"start":124.366,"end":140.804,"text":"那臺鐵呢也跟我們說是因為他並沒有違法所以目前臺北並不想動但是這些觀光列車呢他其實都是用公務預算來去興建的來去建設的"},{"start":142.93,"end":166.724,"text":"那部長覺得使用人民的納稅權喔使用人民的納稅錢喔但卻沒有考量障礙者的需求部長覺得這合不合理是我跟委員報告齁其實台鐵目前大概百分之百的車站都已經有無障礙的電梯那另外有大概七成的車站已經把月台加高盡量讓這個月台進出這個車廂但是我剛才說的是這些觀光列車我請董事長"},{"start":171.087,"end":187.461,"text":"明日號、臨鐵許願號這都沒有跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到的像明日號這都是我們之前用很舊的車廂去改造的如果說要把它變成無帳那幾乎整個車都要拆掉"},{"start":188.061,"end":216.626,"text":"那但是也跟委員報告我們今年開始我們會年底前會上線的我們的山南海峰這個我們就已經有充分的無障的設施可以提供給我們無障的朋友來做這個鐵道觀光旅遊之用後面新設計的列車也都會有部長因為我們這邊收到的訊息是其實很多障礙者跟你們陳情已久甚至也有很多去陳情的行動可是你們現在都是說"},{"start":218.103,"end":223.375,"text":"我們現在因為這都是觀光列車所以沒有無障礙設施沒有違法"},{"start":224.042,"end":251.428,"text":"沒有錯 生權法上面是規定只有大眾運輸要設計無障礙座位但你們一直說觀光列車不算大眾運輸工具可是我剛才問部長啊我在一開始的時候問部長啊障礙者該不該給他平等觀光的權利應該的應該嘛所以恐怕這不是只是用說有沒有違法來看待這件事情嘛是的所以之前台鐵的回覆都是沒有違法所以我們就不動"},{"start":253.322,"end":273.764,"text":"我想客委員報告這個往後我們尤其是觀光列車這一部分我們會充分設想不然我要跟你報告其實不管是林保署的阿里山火車或者是台鐵他們其實在上路前都必須要經過交通部依據地方營或民營及專用鐵路監督實施辦法的核准"},{"start":274.665,"end":296.954,"text":"但這個辦法裡面確實現在是沒有要求車廂設計必須規劃無障礙座位其實我認為這是我們在很多無障礙概念裡面的一個漏洞這也是變成是我們相關的行政部部會的時候他會說這上面並沒有規定用這個事情來去閃避這方面的要求所以部長我可不可以要求這個"},{"start":299.275,"end":325.141,"text":"我們就只講在三個月內是不是可以來請臺鐵來評估我們現行觀光列車來增設或者是用其他的方式來增加不管是無障礙車廂或無障礙設施也許老舊也許新的但總是可以找得到方案能夠讓輪椅族有條件可以上去跟我們一起平等享用這些觀光資源這是第一點"},{"start":326.206,"end":346.198,"text":"第二點我們是希望能夠檢討現在發展大眾運輸條例以及這個地方人民以及專用鐵路監督實施辦法裡面應該將觀光列車比照大眾交通運輸工具要求增設無障礙座位直接就訂到這辦法裡面把我們法規上面的漏洞給補上部長這應該沒有問題吧所以我們來評估這個明日號"},{"start":349.94,"end":351.2,"text":"三個月的時間應該是沒有問題那把相關的報告再給我們辦公室謝謝"},{"start":381.527,"end":381.548,"text":"好"}]}}}}