{"id":154040,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154040","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5066363fcb0c0185ee712f2bcb53250c5b353bd30599155422287167d06ffe8ddab1372d823571c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"10:40:29 - 10:56:15","影片長度":"00:15:46","會議時間":"2024-06-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第18次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-14","start_time":"2024-06-14T10:40:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-14T10:56:15+08:00","duration":946,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議","id":"院會-11-1-18","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（10時40分）謝謝主席，我是不是請一下卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：院長好。院長，我們相識二十幾年，今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員指教。"],["邱委員議瑩：本來應該是要恭喜您的啦！但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛，整個行政、立法之間的劍拔弩張，也不應該特別恭喜您。院長，我想請您看一下，對於立法院在5月28號提出國會擴權這樣的一個法案，行政院很迅速的就提出了覆議，這個大概是你們提出來的7大原因，當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個覆議案。很清楚的，這個國會擴權的法案違憲、違法，完全窒礙難行，而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果。","所以面對這樣一個窒礙難行的法案，行政院當然可以提出幾個措施，第一個當然就是覆議，這個覆議案在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會，院長，您還必須到立法院來進行說明，下個禮拜要進行表決。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是很顯然的，其實我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定，因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現，因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸全力的下指令，要顛覆國家的整個系統。行政院面對覆議案如果不過的時候，行政院未來會採取什麼樣的措施？院長，可不可以請您說明一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝委員的理解，在面對憲政機關的義務，在有違憲、窒礙難行的法案，行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟，所以剛剛誠如委員說的，也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中，但是雖千萬人吾往矣，我們有這樣的決心。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，院長，我感謝你有這樣的一個決心，雖千萬人吾往矣，但是我必須提醒，過去民進黨在執政的時期，其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難，所以院長您大概還記憶猶新，當初我們面對四大公投的時候，有整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉，包括立法委員、包括行政院的官員，甚至蘇貞昌院長，我們下鄉辦了超過一百多場的說明會，讓社會大眾很清楚地知道，這個四大公投在投什麼東西、在談什麼東西、對民眾的影響在哪裡、對國家的影響在哪裡。","面對立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案，我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面，下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明，你必須讓很多的民眾清楚，行政院不是因為我們表決不過、表決輸人家，所以我們才不執行這些法案，而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚地知道，這樣的一個擴權法案違憲、違法的地方在哪裡、對民眾的影響在哪裡。所以我在這裡很懇切地要求行政院院長，院長，如果表決不過的時候，在聲請釋憲的這個階段、這個過程裡面，行政院應該走出辦公室，應該走到市民、走到國民的面前，讓臺灣的國民很清楚地知道這一部違法、違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長，您同意我的建議嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常感謝委員的建議，我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代，大概是有三個月的期間……"],["邱委員議瑩：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：所有的聲音都跑出來，所有支持的聲音都跑出來，所有意見都跑出來，我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論。但現在這一次，跟委員報告，因為從開始提出覆議案到下禮拜五的表決，事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間，當中我們安排了相當多既定的公務行程，行政院目前兩個事情要做……"],["邱委員議瑩：院長，我沒有要求你在這禮拜以內去下鄉，我也知道你下個禮拜，幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：我談的是覆議案表決沒有過之後，很顯然它一定不會過啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：我現在心裡的準備是覆議案表決會過。"],["邱委員議瑩：院長，您跟我的政治判斷會有一點不一樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：我比較樂觀。"],["邱委員議瑩：你比較樂觀，你認為會過……"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信人類有高尚的心靈。"],["邱委員議瑩：你的樂觀來自於國民黨的良心發現嗎？但是以我們這一段時間的相處，我覺得很難啦……"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信人類有高尚的心靈，委員是正義的化身。"],["邱委員議瑩：除非「半暝吃西瓜─反症」，看有沒有辦法改變，不然是真的很困難啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：再加油、再努力。"],["邱委員議瑩：如果不過的話，院長，我覺得這個不是開玩笑的，我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣一個違憲擴權的議題。我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣一個違憲擴權的議題。它的時間不會侷限、不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明，而是你們應該利用更多、更多的機會，去讓全體的臺灣國民知道，甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣一個違法擴權法案的反對力量、反對聲音，這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去，院長，這個你應該可以做得到吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員，覆議案是總統核可之後，行政、立法兩院之間的互動，但如果是釋憲，那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知，我想那個需要告訴人民更多、更強……"],["邱委員議瑩：到那個時候你們就應該要更多的說明了嘛！對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定遵照這樣的方式、這個方向，好好的跟人民來做訴求。"],["邱委員議瑩：我認為溝通這件事情是很重要，下鄉說明是很重要，四個不同意那個時候，其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利，但是經過一百多場的說明之後，投票的結果完全是翻轉。","所以我現在要跟院長討論，最近討論最多的是國土計畫法，國土計畫法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路，但是現在多方反對的聲音，尤其是對於農地的限制，對於土地的限制，這個聲音一直不斷的出來。院長，我讓您看一下，這個是盧秀燕市長說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑，因為我們現在的農一到農五整個土地的規劃，依照現行法令的規定，民眾是不可以任意申請變更的，必須由縣市政府提出通盤檢討的計畫，才能來申請變更。依照現在國土計畫法的法條，縣市政府是可以透過每5年的國土計畫通盤檢討，來做適時的調整嘛，是不是這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：劉部長？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝邱委員的關心，確實你講的沒有錯，但是，國土計畫法的實施，保障農民的權益不變，保障合法農地使用的權益也不變。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，如果是這樣，我要更進一步請教，農一、農二、這些特定的農業區、優良的土地能不能變更？你們現在說可以，縣市政府如果提出了通盤檢討，提出了變更計畫，最後審決的單位還是在中央，有沒有可能中央把它駁回？這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長，或者是很多的縣市長，很多的農民在擔憂的地方。到底農地是不是永久被鎖死？這件事情是事實還是造謠？我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確的告訴大家，而且這是未來會發生的事情，所以大家都會擔心。","第二項，國民黨的張縣長，我不知道他講的是事實還是造謠，所以我要請教你們，國土計畫法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金，是嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：完全相反，國土計畫法是只針對2公頃以上，當他做非法變更而且讓人有重傷害或者致人於死時才有相當高的罰金，否則就是按照原來區域計畫法裡面的罰則進行。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，所以部長您看看我整理的表格到底對不對，如果依照現行的法令，現在的區域計畫法是不分情節一律罰6到30萬，未來你們是按照土地分區、分類使用，有各種不同的裁罰基準，所以反對黨的縣市長當然會拿裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講，他就跟農民講：如果你違規使用的話，你就會被罰500萬、你就會被罰天價的罰金。可是他沒有告訴農民的是，有一些不同的裁罰基準，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：當然。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以他的講話，有一部分是事實，但是大部分是造謠，您同意我的看法嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，我想跟邱委員回復一下，關於雲林縣政府的溝通，到目前為止，我們已經有請他們參加44場以上的溝通，所以雲林縣政府的農業單位跟經發單位都非常瞭解這個事實。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。第三個，這個比較嚴重，院長，這個我就需要您的回答。關於違規檢舉獎金制度，檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打，交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度，所以我們把它取消掉了，那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度，我認為它是非常不恰當的，其實行政院或者是內政部可以透過經費的撥補、人力的撥補，讓我們的人員可以加強查緝、加強清查，或者現在利用空拍機都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用，但是一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度之後，我告訴你，農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們對抗。"],["劉部長世芳：我們可以來檢討，邱委員講的沒有錯，現在其實我們有衛星影像的通報系統，它會比檢舉達人更精確，因為這個法條是在104年訂定的，所以已經不合時宜，我們可以來檢討。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分取消掉嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我始終一個想法，我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷，而不是鼓勵人民互相監控。"],["邱委員議瑩：我同意你這個看法。"],["卓院長榮泰：這句話當作我們的理念，政府應該加強公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測，所以檢舉的事項，我覺得應該再重新檢討。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，如果檢舉獎金制度願意取消的話，我希望大家可以趕快來就這個部分做法案的修訂。","我們一直談到對農地的影響，院長，請您到高雄來看看我們美濃的特定農業專區，它是一個很漂亮的地方，它的農業生產、農業產值都非常的高，我相信全臺灣有很多農業專區其實是一樣的，但是在國土計劃法裡頭，我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更？你們現在說，只要縣市政府提出來是可以，但是我對它是持保留的態度，未來不能變更的時候，或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地，我們是不是應該要給予這些農地更多的對地補貼，農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地，當它變成建地跟在實際耕作的土地價值與收入相差是非常的大的，在被劃成農一的時候，對農民來講，我們其實要給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼，讓農民覺得他們這塊地不是死地，他們不是只能靠種番茄維生、種稻子維生，我們的對地補貼、很多的補償機制是不是有辦法提高、增加呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，當被國土計畫劃為農一或農二時，未來我們農業資源的投入會更為強化，特別是在基礎環境設施，包括農水路的部分，另外，對於農地的綠色環境給付，對於栽植有機友善等耕作模式的獎勵，甚至有關於生態的獎勵、環境的獎勵，我們都會有更加碼的、比過往更高強度的部分……"],["邱委員議瑩：請問你們要怎麼加碼？你們要怎麼做？過去比如說領有某一種給付的就不可以領第二種，你們現在是要用……"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是設計堆疊式的一個獎勵。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以我領了友善耕作的補貼，我也可以領到優質的……"],["陳部長駿季：我們還有生態的、環境的……"],["邱委員議瑩：還有生態的、環境的……"],["陳部長駿季：對，因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面，純粹只是針對……"],["邱委員議瑩：這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來？我期待農業部能夠加緊腳步，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會著重在這個部分。"],["邱委員議瑩：院長，我真的覺得，國土計畫法現在如果要倉促上路，會引來非常多的怨言，我真的覺得跟民眾的溝通是非常的重要，在還沒有完整的溝通之前，我認為其實如果能夠緩一緩的話，真的事緩則圓，這個當然要請行政院能認真思考本席的建議，以上，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學，我們熱情歡迎！臺灣未來的棟梁，熱情歡迎！","接下來，我們請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":29,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-18","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-14"],"gazette_id":"1135701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135701_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"154040","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154040","tool":"pyannote","id":"154040-pyannote"},"job_id":"1eL7tfukg0HdB5BA","queued_at":"2024-06-14 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院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 352.827, \"end\": 353.027, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 353.027, \"end\": 353.228, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 353.228, \"end\": 353.588, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 353.588, \"end\": 353.768, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 353.768, \"end\": 353.928, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 353.928, \"end\": 354.509, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 354.509, \"end\": 354.79, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 354.79, \"end\": 355.771, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 355.771, \"end\": 356.111, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 356.111, \"end\": 356.812, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 356.812, \"end\": 357.173, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 357.173, 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814.446, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 814.446, \"end\": 814.586, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 814.586, \"end\": 814.766, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 814.766, \"end\": 815.107, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 815.107, \"end\": 815.247, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 815.247, \"end\": 815.387, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 815.387, \"end\": 815.527, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 815.527, \"end\": 815.627, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 815.627, \"end\": 815.928, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 815.928, \"end\": 816.148, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 816.148, \"end\": 816.388, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 816.388, \"end\": 817.49, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 817.49, \"end\": 817.79, \"score\": 0.611}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 817.79, \"end\": 818.03, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 818.03, \"end\": 818.23, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 818.23, \"end\": 818.371, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 818.371, \"end\": 818.631, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 818.631, \"end\": 818.851, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 818.851, \"end\": 818.991, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 818.991, \"end\": 819.112, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 819.112, \"end\": 819.372, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 819.372, \"end\": 820.473, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"耕\", \"start\": 820.473, \"end\": 820.734, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 820.734, \"end\": 821.294, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 821.294, \"end\": 821.414, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 821.414, \"end\": 821.655, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 821.655, \"end\": 821.875, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 821.875, \"end\": 822.396, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 822.396, \"end\": 822.576, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 822.576, \"end\": 822.836, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 822.836, \"end\": 823.056, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 823.056, \"end\": 823.657, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 823.657, \"end\": 823.857, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 823.857, \"end\": 823.998, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 823.998, \"end\": 824.138, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 824.138, \"end\": 824.258, \"score\": 0.634}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 824.258, \"end\": 824.438, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 824.438, \"end\": 824.598, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 824.598, \"end\": 824.819, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 824.819, \"end\": 824.839, \"score\": 0.639}]}, {\"start\": 825.299, \"end\": 848.369, \"text\": \"那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 825.299, \"end\": 825.519, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 825.519, \"end\": 825.819, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 825.819, \"end\": 826.48, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 826.48, \"end\": 826.68, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 826.68, \"end\": 827.16, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 827.16, \"end\": 827.78, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 827.78, \"end\": 828.1, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 828.1, \"end\": 829.461, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, 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\"end\": 844.487, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 844.487, \"end\": 844.707, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 844.707, \"end\": 844.847, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 844.847, \"end\": 845.047, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 845.047, \"end\": 845.187, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 845.187, \"end\": 845.968, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"償\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 845.968, \"end\": 846.488, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.488, \"end\": 846.608, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 846.608, \"end\": 846.668, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.668, \"end\": 846.768, \"score\": 0.598}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 846.768, \"end\": 847.108, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 847.108, \"end\": 847.428, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 847.428, \"end\": 847.609, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 847.609, \"end\": 847.929, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 847.929, \"end\": 848.109, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 848.109, \"end\": 848.349, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 848.349, \"end\": 848.369, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 849.089, \"end\": 867.634, \"text\": \"我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 849.089, \"end\": 849.309, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 849.309, \"end\": 849.649, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 849.649, \"end\": 850.369, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 850.369, \"end\": 851.07, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 851.07, \"end\": 851.47, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 851.47, \"end\": 851.59, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 851.59, \"end\": 852.57, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 852.57, \"end\": 852.81, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 852.81, \"end\": 853.19, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 853.19, \"end\": 853.35, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 853.35, \"end\": 854.03, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 854.03, \"end\": 854.45, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"惡\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 854.45, \"end\": 854.771, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 854.771, \"end\": 854.991, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 854.991, \"end\": 855.231, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 855.231, \"end\": 855.651, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 855.651, \"end\": 856.011, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 856.011, \"end\": 856.811, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 856.811, \"end\": 857.491, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 857.491, \"end\": 857.651, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 857.651, \"end\": 857.791, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 857.791, \"end\": 858.011, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 858.011, \"end\": 858.972, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 858.972, \"end\": 860.532, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 860.532, \"end\": 861.252, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 861.252, \"end\": 861.372, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 861.372, \"end\": 861.532, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 861.532, \"end\": 861.692, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 861.692, \"end\": 862.292, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 862.292, \"end\": 862.673, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 862.673, \"end\": 862.993, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 862.993, \"end\": 863.153, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 863.153, \"end\": 863.293, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 863.293, \"end\": 863.593, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 863.593, \"end\": 863.733, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 863.733, \"end\": 863.853, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 863.853, \"end\": 863.993, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 863.993, \"end\": 864.153, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 864.153, \"end\": 864.573, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 864.573, \"end\": 864.753, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 864.753, \"end\": 864.913, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 864.913, \"end\": 865.893, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 865.893, \"end\": 866.173, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 866.173, \"end\": 866.334, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 866.334, \"end\": 866.854, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 866.854, \"end\": 867.294, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 867.294, \"end\": 867.454, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 867.454, \"end\": 867.534, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 867.534, \"end\": 867.614, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 867.614, \"end\": 867.634, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 868.547, \"end\": 887.724, \"text\": \"那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 868.547, \"end\": 868.927, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 868.927, \"end\": 869.047, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 869.047, \"end\": 869.748, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"栽\"}, {\"word\": \"植\", \"start\": 869.748, \"end\": 869.968, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 869.968, \"end\": 870.449, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 870.449, \"end\": 870.969, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"膳\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 870.969, \"end\": 871.189, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 871.189, \"end\": 871.369, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"耕\", \"start\": 871.369, \"end\": 871.55, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 871.55, \"end\": 871.77, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 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00:01:51,871\n所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決\n\n6\n00:01:53,012 --> 00:02:10,526\n但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸\n\n7\n00:02:11,527 --> 00:02:12,688\n非常謝謝委員的理解\n\n8\n00:02:29,454 --> 00:02:55,585\n在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟所以剛剛陳律委員說的也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中但是雖千萬人無往矣我們有這樣的決心院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心雖千萬人無往矣\n\n9\n00:02:56,789 --> 00:03:12,004\n但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候\n\n10\n00:03:12,825 --> 00:03:35,746\n由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡\n\n11\n00:03:38,729 --> 00:03:57,802\n那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為\n\n12\n00:03:58,843 --> 00:04:17,798\n啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求\n\n13\n00:04:19,059 --> 00:04:44,162\n行政院院長,院長,如果表決不過的時候,在申請釋憲的這個階段,這個過程裡面,行政院應該走出辦公室,應該走到市民,走到國民的面前,讓台灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長您同意我的建議嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:45,182 --> 00:04:57,568\n非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來\n\n15\n00:04:58,444 --> 00:05:27,904\n我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後\n\n16\n00:05:28,544 --> 00:05:30,986\n我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。\n\n17\n00:05:52,827 --> 00:06:01,338\n再加油再努力如果不過的話院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題\n\n18\n00:06:10,129 --> 00:06:33,793\n那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧\n\n19\n00:06:34,113 --> 00:06:54,232\n好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。\n\n20\n00:06:54,793 --> 00:07:10,287\n我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以\n\n21\n00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:34,921\n我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來\n\n22\n00:07:36,968 --> 00:08:03,894\n這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出\n\n23\n00:08:04,514 --> 00:08:04,574\n是的﹖\n\n24\n00:08:28,083 --> 00:08:53,275\n謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了\n\n25\n00:08:54,275 --> 00:09:11,273\n通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死\n\n26\n00:09:11,913 --> 00:09:26,591\n這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項\n\n27\n00:09:28,940 --> 00:09:55,133\n國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你。國土計劃法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或者致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。所以,\n\n28\n00:09:58,755 --> 00:10:18,090\n來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以\n\n29\n00:10:19,997 --> 00:10:38,573\n反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話\n\n30\n00:10:41,736 --> 00:11:07,125\n她一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠。您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟邱議瑩回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請她參加44場以上的這個溝通。所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟它經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊。院長這個我就需要您的回答。違規檢舉獎金制度。\n\n31\n00:11:09,541 --> 00:11:21,548\n檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。\n\n32\n00:11:25,902 --> 00:11:52,675\n我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們打\n\n33\n00:11:53,735 --> 00:12:16,186\n我們可以來檢討現在邱議瑩講的沒有錯現在其實我們有所謂的衛星影像的通報系統他會比所謂的檢舉達人更精確那因為這個法條是在104年訂定的所以他已經不合時宜我們可以來檢討所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分把它取消掉嗎報告委員我始終一個想法\n\n34\n00:12:17,128 --> 00:12:43,905\n我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日的來就這個部分來做法案的修訂\n\n35\n00:12:45,105 --> 00:13:04,691\n當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。\n\n36\n00:13:06,551 --> 00:13:25,776\n但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。\n\n37\n00:13:26,636 --> 00:13:44,839\n我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的\n\n38\n00:13:45,299 --> 00:14:08,369\n那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?\n\n39\n00:14:09,089 --> 00:14:27,634\n我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付\n\n40\n00:14:28,547 --> 00:14:47,724\n那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵\n\n41\n00:14:51,747 --> 00:14:56,593\n對,因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面純粹只是針對……好,那這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來,我覺得期待農業部能夠加緊腳步啊。\n\n42\n00:15:08,186 --> 00:15:08,206\n謝謝,謝謝委員\n\n43\n00:15:35,507 --> 00:15:45,739\n謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學,我們熱情歡迎臺灣未來的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20436\t20737\t請委員好。\n34793\t52394\t院長好,院長我們相識二十幾年齁今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答那這個本來應該是要恭喜您的啦但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛整個行政立法之間的這個劍靶弩張\n55057\t79565\t也不應該特別恭喜您。院長我想請您看一下,這個行政院對於在立法院在5月28號提出的國會擴權的這樣的一個法案,行政院很迅速的就提出了復議。所以這個大概是你們提出來的七大原因。當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個復議案。\n80985\t95181\t很清楚的這個國會擴權的法案違憲違法完全至愛難行而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果\n96062\t111871\t所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決\n113012\t130526\t但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸\n131527\t132688\t非常謝謝委員的理解\n149454\t175585\t在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟所以剛剛陳律委員說的也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中但是雖千萬人無往矣我們有這樣的決心院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心雖千萬人無往矣\n176789\t192004\t但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候\n192825\t215746\t由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡\n218729\t237802\t那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為\n238843\t257798\t啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求\n259059\t284162\t行政院院長,院長,如果表決不過的時候,在申請釋憲的這個階段,這個過程裡面,行政院應該走出辦公室,應該走到市民,走到國民的面前,讓台灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長您同意我的建議嗎?\n285182\t297568\t非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來\n298444\t327904\t我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後\n328544\t330986\t我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。\n352827\t361338\t再加油 再努力如果 不過的話 院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題\n370129\t393793\t那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧\n394113\t414232\t好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。\n414793\t430287\t我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以\n431431\t454921\t我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來\n456968\t483894\t這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出\n484514\t484574\t是的﹖\n508083\t533275\t謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了\n534275\t551273\t通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死\n551913\t566591\t這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項\n568940\t595133\t國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你。國土計劃法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或者致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。所以,\n598755\t618090\t來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以\n619997\t638573\t反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話\n641736\t667125\t她一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠。您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟邱議瑩回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請她參加44場以上的這個溝通。所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟它經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊。院長這個我就需要您的回答。違規檢舉獎金制度。\n669541\t681548\t檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。\n685902\t712675\t我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們打\n713735\t736186\t我們可以來檢討現在邱議瑩講的沒有錯現在其實我們有所謂的衛星影像的通報系統他會比所謂的檢舉達人更精確那因為這個法條是在104年訂定的所以他已經不合時宜我們可以來檢討所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分把它取消掉嗎報告委員我始終一個想法\n737128\t763905\t我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日的來就這個部分來做法案的修訂\n765105\t784691\t當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。\n786551\t805776\t但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。\n806636\t824839\t我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的\n825299\t848369\t那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?\n849089\t867634\t我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付\n868547\t887724\t那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵\n891747\t896593\t對,因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面純粹只是針對……好,那這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來,我覺得期待農業部能夠加緊腳步啊。\n908186\t908206\t謝謝,謝謝委員\n935507\t945739\t謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學,我們熱情歡迎臺灣未來的\n","txt":"請委員好。\n院長好,院長我們相識二十幾年齁今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答那這個本來應該是要恭喜您的啦但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛整個行政立法之間的這個劍靶弩張\n也不應該特別恭喜您。院長我想請您看一下,這個行政院對於在立法院在5月28號提出的國會擴權的這樣的一個法案,行政院很迅速的就提出了復議。所以這個大概是你們提出來的七大原因。當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個復議案。\n很清楚的這個國會擴權的法案違憲違法完全至愛難行而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果\n所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決\n但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸\n非常謝謝委員的理解\n在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟所以剛剛陳律委員說的也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中但是雖千萬人無往矣我們有這樣的決心院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心雖千萬人無往矣\n但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候\n由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡\n那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為\n啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求\n行政院院長,院長,如果表決不過的時候,在申請釋憲的這個階段,這個過程裡面,行政院應該走出辦公室,應該走到市民,走到國民的面前,讓台灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長您同意我的建議嗎?\n非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來\n我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後\n我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。\n再加油 再努力如果 不過的話 院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題\n那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧\n好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。\n我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以\n我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來\n這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出\n是的﹖\n謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了\n通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死\n這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項\n國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你。國土計劃法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或者致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。所以,\n來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以\n反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話\n她一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠。您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟邱議瑩回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請她參加44場以上的這個溝通。所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟它經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊。院長這個我就需要您的回答。違規檢舉獎金制度。\n檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。\n我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們打\n我們可以來檢討現在邱議瑩講的沒有錯現在其實我們有所謂的衛星影像的通報系統他會比所謂的檢舉達人更精確那因為這個法條是在104年訂定的所以他已經不合時宜我們可以來檢討所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分把它取消掉嗎報告委員我始終一個想法\n我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日的來就這個部分來做法案的修訂\n當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。\n但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。\n我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的\n那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?\n我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付\n那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵\n對,因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面純粹只是針對……好,那這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來,我覺得期待農業部能夠加緊腳步啊。\n謝謝,謝謝委員\n謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學,我們熱情歡迎臺灣未來的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.436 --> 00:20.737\n請委員好。\n\n00:34.793 --> 00:52.394\n院長好,院長我們相識二十幾年齁今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答那這個本來應該是要恭喜您的啦但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛整個行政立法之間的這個劍靶弩張\n\n00:55.057 --> 01:19.565\n也不應該特別恭喜您。院長我想請您看一下,這個行政院對於在立法院在5月28號提出的國會擴權的這樣的一個法案,行政院很迅速的就提出了復議。所以這個大概是你們提出來的七大原因。當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個復議案。\n\n01:20.985 --> 01:35.181\n很清楚的這個國會擴權的法案違憲違法完全至愛難行而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果\n\n01:36.062 --> 01:51.871\n所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決\n\n01:53.012 --> 02:10.526\n但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸\n\n02:11.527 --> 02:12.688\n非常謝謝委員的理解\n\n02:29.454 --> 02:55.585\n在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟所以剛剛陳律委員說的也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中但是雖千萬人無往矣我們有這樣的決心院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心雖千萬人無往矣\n\n02:56.789 --> 03:12.004\n但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候\n\n03:12.825 --> 03:35.746\n由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡\n\n03:38.729 --> 03:57.802\n那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為\n\n03:58.843 --> 04:17.798\n啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求\n\n04:19.059 --> 04:44.162\n行政院院長,院長,如果表決不過的時候,在申請釋憲的這個階段,這個過程裡面,行政院應該走出辦公室,應該走到市民,走到國民的面前,讓台灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長您同意我的建議嗎?\n\n04:45.182 --> 04:57.568\n非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來\n\n04:58.444 --> 05:27.904\n我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後\n\n05:28.544 --> 05:30.986\n我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。\n\n05:52.827 --> 06:01.338\n再加油再努力如果不過的話院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題\n\n06:10.129 --> 06:33.793\n那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧\n\n06:34.113 --> 06:54.232\n好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。\n\n06:54.793 --> 07:10.287\n我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以\n\n07:11.431 --> 07:34.921\n我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來\n\n07:36.968 --> 08:03.894\n這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出\n\n08:04.514 --> 08:04.574\n是的﹖\n\n08:28.083 --> 08:53.275\n謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了\n\n08:54.275 --> 09:11.273\n通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死\n\n09:11.913 --> 09:26.591\n這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項\n\n09:28.940 --> 09:55.133\n國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你。國土計劃法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或者致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。所以,\n\n09:58.755 --> 10:18.090\n來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以\n\n10:19.997 --> 10:38.573\n反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話\n\n10:41.736 --> 11:07.125\n她一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠。您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟邱議瑩回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請她參加44場以上的這個溝通。所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟它經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊。院長這個我就需要您的回答。違規檢舉獎金制度。\n\n11:09.541 --> 11:21.548\n檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。\n\n11:25.902 --> 11:52.675\n我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們打\n\n11:53.735 --> 12:16.186\n我們可以來檢討現在邱議瑩講的沒有錯現在其實我們有所謂的衛星影像的通報系統他會比所謂的檢舉達人更精確那因為這個法條是在104年訂定的所以他已經不合時宜我們可以來檢討所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分把它取消掉嗎報告委員我始終一個想法\n\n12:17.128 --> 12:43.905\n我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日的來就這個部分來做法案的修訂\n\n12:45.105 --> 13:04.691\n當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。\n\n13:06.551 --> 13:25.776\n但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。\n\n13:26.636 --> 13:44.839\n我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的\n\n13:45.299 --> 14:08.369\n那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?\n\n14:09.089 --> 14:27.634\n我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付\n\n14:28.547 --> 14:47.724\n那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵\n\n14:51.747 --> 14:56.593\n對,因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面純粹只是針對……好,那這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來,我覺得期待農業部能夠加緊腳步啊。\n\n15:08.186 --> 15:08.206\n謝謝,謝謝委員\n\n15:35.507 --> 15:45.739\n謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學,我們熱情歡迎臺灣未來的\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.436,"end":20.737,"text":"請委員好。"},{"start":34.793,"end":52.394,"text":"院長好,院長我們相識二十幾年齁今天應該是第一次有機會站在這個臺上跟您面對面的進行詢答那這個本來應該是要恭喜您的啦但是我覺得現在整個朝野的氣氛整個行政立法之間的這個劍靶弩張"},{"start":55.057,"end":79.565,"text":"也不應該特別恭喜您。院長我想請您看一下,這個行政院對於在立法院在5月28號提出的國會擴權的這樣的一個法案,行政院很迅速的就提出了復議。所以這個大概是你們提出來的七大原因。當然行政院也特別說明為什麼你們要提出這樣的一個復議案。"},{"start":80.985,"end":95.181,"text":"很清楚的這個國會擴權的法案違憲違法完全至愛難行而且未來很有可能讓人民必須擔負著他們無法預知的後果"},{"start":96.062,"end":111.871,"text":"所以面對這樣一個至愛難行的法案行政院當然可以提出幾個措施第一個當然就是復議這個復議案會在下個禮拜我們就要開始進行所謂的全體委員會院長你還必須到立法院來進行說明下個禮拜要進行表決"},{"start":113.012,"end":130.526,"text":"但是很顯然的其實如果我們大概可以預見這個表決的結果大概已經決定因為國民黨他們不會半夜良心發現因為國民黨他們受到的指令是來自於對岸"},{"start":131.527,"end":132.688,"text":"非常謝謝委員的理解"},{"start":149.454,"end":175.585,"text":"在面對憲政機關的義務在有違憲、自在難行的法案行政機關一定是要依照憲政的秩序來提出應該有的救濟所以剛剛陳律委員說的也許我們對努力的結果現在還在進行當中但是雖千萬人無往矣我們有這樣的決心院長我感謝你有這樣的一個決心雖千萬人無往矣"},{"start":176.789,"end":192.004,"text":"但是我必須提醒啊過去民進黨在執政的時期其實我們也面臨到很多政策上面的推動困難所以院長您大概還記憶猶新當初我們面對四大公投的時候"},{"start":192.825,"end":215.746,"text":"由整個行政院團隊帶隊下鄉包括立法委員包括行政院的官員甚至蘇貞昌院長我們下鄉辦了超過100多場的說明會讓社會大眾很清楚的知道這個四大公投在投什麼東西在談什麼東西對民眾的影響在哪裡對國家的影響在哪裡"},{"start":218.729,"end":237.802,"text":"那面對到立法院通過這樣的一個違憲擴權案我其實希望行政院長、行政院的團隊也應該要出面下鄉跟民眾面對面的說明你必須讓很多的民眾清楚行政院不是因為"},{"start":238.843,"end":257.798,"text":"啊我們表決不過表決輸人家所以我們才不執行這些法案而是你必須讓很多的民眾清楚的知道這樣的一個擴權法案違憲違法的地方在哪裡對民眾的影響在哪裡所以我在這裡很懇切的要求"},{"start":259.059,"end":284.162,"text":"行政院院長,院長,如果表決不過的時候,在申請釋憲的這個階段,這個過程裡面,行政院應該走出辦公室,應該走到市民,走到國民的面前,讓台灣的國民很清楚的知道這一部違法違憲的擴權法案的不合理性。院長您同意我的建議嗎?"},{"start":285.182,"end":297.568,"text":"非常感謝委員的建議我們依稀記得四個不同意那個時代大概是有三個月的期間所有的聲音都跑出來所有支持的聲音都跑出來所有意見都跑出來"},{"start":298.444,"end":327.904,"text":"我們也知道那個時候帶動了整個社會的討論但現在這一次跟委員報告因為從開始提出復議案到下禮拜五的表決事實上只有不到一個禮拜的時間那當中我們有安排了相當多既定的公務行程行政院目前兩個事情要做我沒有要求你在這一個禮拜以內去下下我也知道你下個禮拜幾乎一整個禮拜都被綁在立法院裡頭我談的是復議案表決沒有過之後"},{"start":328.544,"end":330.986,"text":"我相信人類有高尚的心靈。我相信人類有高尚的心靈為正義的化身。"},{"start":352.827,"end":361.338,"text":"再加油 再努力如果 不過的話 院長我覺得這個不是開玩笑的我認為我們應該嚴肅的面對這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題我覺得應該要認真的去讓全體的國民知道這樣的一個違憲擴權的議題"},{"start":370.129,"end":393.793,"text":"那他的時間不會只極限說不會說我只給你一個月的時間去說明而是你們應該利用更多更多的機會去讓全體的臺灣國民知道甚至也要讓國際知道臺灣對於這樣的一個違法擴權法案的反對力量反對聲音這個我覺得都應該把它擴散出去喔好院長這個你應該可以做得到吧"},{"start":394.113,"end":414.232,"text":"好,謝謝委員。復議案是總統合可之後,行政立法兩院之間的這個互動。但是,如果是釋憲,那是全國人民對憲法再一次的認知。我想那個需要告訴人們是更多更強。我們一定遵照這樣的方式,這個方向,好好的跟人民來做訴求。"},{"start":414.793,"end":430.287,"text":"我認為溝通這件事情是很重要下鄉說明是很重要四個不同意那個時候其實很多的聲音對民進黨是相對不利但是經過一百多場的說明之後投票的結果完全是翻轉所以"},{"start":431.431,"end":454.921,"text":"我現在要跟院長您討論最近討論最多的是國土計劃法。國土計劃法按照既定的時程是要在2025年的4月就要開始準備上路但是現在呢多方反對的聲音尤其是對於農地的限制對於土地的限制這個聲音一直不斷的出來"},{"start":456.968,"end":483.894,"text":"這個院長我讓您看一下這個是盧秀燕市長他說國土計畫法上路之後農地就會被判死刑因為我們現在的農一到農五的整個土地的規劃依照現行的法令的規定民眾是不可以任意申請變更的他必須由縣市政府提出"},{"start":484.514,"end":484.574,"text":"是的﹖"},{"start":508.083,"end":533.275,"text":"謝謝邱委員的關心確實你講的沒有錯但是國土計畫法的實施第一個保障農民的權益不變保障合法的農地的使用的權益也不變好如果是這樣我要更進一步請教農一農二這些特定的農業區優秀的優良的土地能不能變更你們現在說可以縣市政府如果提出了"},{"start":534.275,"end":551.273,"text":"通盤檢討提出了變更計畫最後審決的單位還是在中央有沒有可能中央把它駁回這個就是現在國民黨的縣市長或者是很多的縣市長很多的農民在擔憂的地方到底農地是不是永久被鎖死"},{"start":551.913,"end":566.591,"text":"這件事情是事實還是造謠我沒有聽到行政單位對於這個事情很明確很明確的告訴大家而且這是未來會發生的事情喔所以大家當然先反倒去來看嘛第二項"},{"start":568.94,"end":595.133,"text":"國民黨的另外一位張縣長,我不知道他講的這個是事實還是造謠,所以我要請教你。國土計劃法針對違規使用訂定天價的罰金嗎?是嗎?完全相反,國土計劃法是針對只有兩公頃以上,它做的是非法的變更,而且呢,讓人家有重傷害或者致人於死的時候才有相當高的罰金,否則就是按照原來區域計劃法裡面的罰則進行。所以,"},{"start":598.755,"end":618.09,"text":"來部長您看看我整理的這個表到底對不對這個表對不對如果說依照現行的法令現在的區域計劃法是不分情節一律把6到30萬未來你們是按照土地分區分類的使用有各種不同的裁拔基準所以"},{"start":619.997,"end":638.573,"text":"反對黨的縣市長他當然會拿你的裁罰基準最高的500萬出來講他就跟你講說你跟農民講說如果你違規使用的話你就會被罰500萬你就會被罰天價的罰金可是他沒有告訴農民的是有一些不同的裁罰基準嘛對不對所以剛剛那個講話"},{"start":641.736,"end":667.125,"text":"她一部分是事實,但是大部分是造謠。您同意我的看法嗎?是的,我想跟邱議瑩回復一下關於雲林縣政府的溝通,到目前為止我們已經有請她參加44場以上的這個溝通。所以雲林縣政府他們的農業單位跟它經發單位都非常了解這個事實。好,第三個,這個比較嚴重啊。院長這個我就需要您的回答。違規檢舉獎金制度。"},{"start":669.541,"end":681.548,"text":"檢舉達人現在在馬路上應該是人人喊打。交通部過去的交通違規有檢舉達人的制度。所以我們把它取消掉了。那我們現在的國土計畫法裡頭還放著檢舉獎金制度。"},{"start":685.902,"end":712.675,"text":"我認為他是非常不恰當的其實行政院或者是內政部我們可以透過經費的撥補人力的撥補讓我們的人員可以加強茶器加強清茶或者是你們現在利用很多的空拍機其實都可以知道土地有沒有違規使用但是你一旦落入了檢舉達人的檢舉獎金制度的時候我告訴你農民真的是會拿鋤頭來跟你們打"},{"start":713.735,"end":736.186,"text":"我們可以來檢討現在邱議瑩講的沒有錯現在其實我們有所謂的衛星影像的通報系統他會比所謂的檢舉達人更精確那因為這個法條是在104年訂定的所以他已經不合時宜我們可以來檢討所以院長您同意把檢舉達人的這個部分把它取消掉嗎報告委員我始終一個想法"},{"start":737.128,"end":763.905,"text":"我們應該鼓勵人民互相關懷而不是鼓勵人民互相監控這句話當作我們的理念那政府應該加強的是公權力跟科技的方式來對不法或是違規的行為做檢測所以檢舉的事項我覺得應該再重新的檢討所以如果檢舉獎金制度願意來做取消的話我希望大家可以趕快早日的來就這個部分來做法案的修訂"},{"start":765.105,"end":784.691,"text":"當然我們一直談到對農地的影響,院長我如果能夠請您到高雄來看看我們美農的特定農業專區,它是一個很漂亮的地方,它的農業生產包括農業的產值都非常的高,我相信全台灣有很多的農業專區其實是一樣的。"},{"start":786.551,"end":805.776,"text":"但是在國土計畫法裡頭我剛剛問到農一、農二能不能任意變更。你們現在說只要縣市政府提出來是可以,但是我對他是持保留的態度。未來不能變更的時候或者現在已經是被劃定在農一、農二、農三的這些農地。"},{"start":806.636,"end":824.839,"text":"我們是不是應該要給予這一些農地更多更多的對地補貼我覺得農民的土地過去可能可以變成建地當你變成建地的時候跟你在持實際耕作的那個土地價值跟收入相差是非常的大的"},{"start":825.299,"end":848.369,"text":"那如何在被劃成農醫的時候對農民來講我們其實給予他更多的關懷、更多的補貼。讓農民覺得我這塊地不是私地,我不是只能靠種番茄維生、種梨花維生。我們的對地補貼、我們的很多的補償機制是不是有辦法來提高來增加呢?"},{"start":849.089,"end":867.634,"text":"我跟那個委員說明齁就是當你國土計畫被化為農業或農惡的時候那未來我們的農業的資源的投入會更為強化特別是在基礎環境設施包括農水路的部分那另外對於農地的綠色環境的一個給付"},{"start":868.547,"end":887.724,"text":"那對於它栽植有機有膳的這些耕作模式的一個獎勵甚至於有關於生態的獎勵環境的獎勵我們都會有更加碼的一個比過往更高強度的部分請問你們要怎麼加碼你們要怎麼做過去比如說有領某一種幾副的就不可以領第二種那你們現在是要用推諜式的一個獎勵"},{"start":891.747,"end":896.593,"text":"對,因為過往我們在生態的給付裡面純粹只是針對……好,那這些施行細則什麼時候可以出來,我覺得期待農業部能夠加緊腳步啊。"},{"start":908.186,"end":908.206,"text":"謝謝,謝謝委員"},{"start":935.507,"end":945.739,"text":"謝謝邱議瑩委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長的備詢。報告院會,現在在議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市成功高中同學,我們熱情歡迎臺灣未來的"}]}}}}