{"id":154045,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154045","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5066363fcb0c0185d336fcfdb71eaef95b353bd3059915546051f742c4eddec589e2bfcd57ebc68f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"14:48:37 - 15:19:34","影片長度":"00:30:57","會議時間":"2024-06-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第18次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-14","start_time":"2024-06-14T14:48:37+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-14T15:19:34+08:00","duration":1857,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議","id":"院會-11-1-18","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":60,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（14時48分）主席好，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長好。我看見您的施政方針，第一頁我覺得滿感動的，您說：將秉持誠意溝通、人民優先，展現解決問題的誠意與決心，未來哪裡有困難，您和行政單位就會到哪裡去；哪裡有問題，我們就想辦法解決問題。當然，我看到是非常高興我們有這樣一個院長，希望接下來我們的對話，您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題。","我想請問一下院長，賴清德總統在選前講過，要把苗栗變成科技大縣，因此國發會也配合推動桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的推動方案，我們在簡報中看到，苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想要問的是，我們苗栗整個產業園區擴編1,203公頃的計畫中，苗栗縣只有145.6公頃，大概只占了九分之一，我想請問院長，水、電都從苗栗送過去，那為什麼要捨近求遠呢？不提高在苗栗產業園區的面積呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於這個桃竹苗大矽谷的推動方案，這已經在跟地方政府協調當中，我們希望它能夠早日落實，具體在實現這個過程的部分，國發會有它目前的工程進度跟計畫。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們今年3月就開始有提到這個，你們也到苗栗縣縣政府去，實際上我們竹南有300公頃，還有頭份330公頃，還有後龍的330公頃，總面積是960公頃，我想請問一下目前的進度，這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告一下，有兩個點，第一個，現在這個是在明年的預算，所以我們還在院的審議當中，第二個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以苗栗有沒有機會？剛剛我講的這些有沒有辦法？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：第二點我補充說明一下，在這個計畫裡面，對於土地的使用，我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整，在整個運作過程中，如果我們要增加苗栗的土地的話，當時在整個計畫裡面是可以透過滾動式調整而增加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得是這樣啦！因為這是非常重要的一個計畫，如果可以的話，該有的土地我們儘量先把它……既然縣府都有提報了，是不是可以就把它規劃進去？以後要用也比較方便，不然到時候又要重新跑一遍，這樣不是更麻煩？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的，這個我們可以來研議。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那請院長協助，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我們談到產業園區的部分，包含了土地變更的需求，產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡，才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更為產業園區，這些都需要時間，也需要中央跟地方配合，才能創造雙贏，像這些沒有劃進去的話，以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩。","近期國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音，我也接到很多陳情，尤其對於農業縣來說，影響最大，這個不分黨派，我想很多民進黨的委員也一直為地方來發聲，尤其在苗栗縣，苗栗縣有水庫，本來開發就受到很多的限制了，現在又因為山坡地比例高，很多土地都會劃成國土保育區。舉例來說，我們卓蘭鎮壢西坪、大湖薑麻園休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊飲用水的水源保護區裡面，被劃進國土保育區之後，原有的、舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉，他們要怎麼樣申請合法？可以申請合法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天很多委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題，我們答復很多次，是不是請部長再重複一次？"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，有關於被劃為農一、農二的部分，如果從事農業的部分，其相關必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做，並不會有任何的影響……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以不會受罰就對了？"],["陳部長駿季：什麼？"],["邱委員鎮軍：就不會受罰就對了？就地合法就對了？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，合法的都沒問題，那不合法本來就是不合法，現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處，不會因為國土計畫改變了以後，非法的就一夕之間變合法。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為有些說實在的，它是在邊緣，很多農民真的非常的擔心，因為在水庫周邊的土地其實它本身的使用就已經受限了，在苗栗有五個水庫，五個水庫供應全臺灣，對全臺灣來講是非常重要的水資源，當然已經規劃到苗栗縣，因為地理位置的關係，我們當然願意來配合中央，但是我也希望，中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民設想，讓我們農民的權益不會受損，這樣好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：也請委員能夠協助地方政府，請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃編原則，儘快報上來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛？對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，就苗栗縣土地如何合理有效率的運用，在保障農民權利的前提之下，儘快核定，它報上來，我們一起做通盤的考量，再整體處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，我也接到產業界的陳情，國土計畫土地使用管制規則預告版的第八條沒有納入擴廠機制，也就是不能使用毗鄰非都土地來擴廠，這違反產業創新條例第六十五條的規定，像這兩條法就互相牴觸了，要以哪個為主？"],["陳部長駿季：如果是以新的國土計畫相關規範時，農一跟農二的管制強度是不一樣的，特別農二就是現在的一般農地才有可能有工廠，這個部分它必須要有一個總量管制及其區位引導的前提之下，然後……"],["邱委員鎮軍：總量管制是誰限制的？"],["陳部長駿季：就是縣市政府這邊，它要有一個……"],["邱委員鎮軍：縣府訂定就可以，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，縣府做一個空間規劃，然後要有一個區位的引導，再加上它有一個總量管制的前提之下，那個土地的主管機關就會針對它所報上來的計畫去做核定。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，它決定要有三個前提，第一個，它要有一個整體的空間規劃；第二個，它要有一個區位的引導，因為整個國土計畫裡面，農一到農五有不同的區位；第三個，它要有一個總量的管制。在符合這三個條件之下，會送土地主管機關裡面，然後我們會去審查。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我知道經濟部這邊也表示過，在國土計畫法的制定過程中有一再反映業界的需求，也有向我們這邊反映，但內政部這邊不接受，未來有擴廠需求的廠商就會碰到這種問題，我想這個問題是不是能夠有一個明確的說法？你剛剛講的那個其實是蠻含糊的，處理下來也是蠻……我想每個縣市的承辦人員一定聽不懂你講什麼，到時候各自解釋而導致產業發展受損，我想這是非常不好的，也希望我們這邊的兩個部會能夠儘快來溝通，這樣好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，請部長回座。","我再請教院長，主計處前兩天公布1到4月的實質薪資平均達到6.3萬元，你相信嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員一樣，我們在初期看到這樣的數字，也認為應該有一個更核實的計算方式，但是傳統上它就是用這樣計算，我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式，那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感，他是可以藉由努力改善自己。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！公布的這個讓全國人民聽到後大家都很錯愕，尤其是網軍，講了很多很多很好笑的話，說主計處是看到鬼喔！現在是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣。我覺得是這樣子啦！是影響我們機關的公信力，應該要更實質地來報導這樣的事情，因為我們有查過，有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬，47%的民眾月薪不到4萬，所以我認為這個數字是真的差太多，主計處要講一下嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這倒不是影響公信力，它有其依據，只是它是用整體的平均數來算，當然在平均數以下的很多朋友們心裡的感受不好，所以我們已經跟主計處講過，以後要如何在研究上做精進，以改善公布的方式跟內容，讓所有人看到都覺得這個數字跟他是有感情的、是接近的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！因為這個確實……"],["卓院長榮泰：這部分我請主計處說明一下。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長您這樣講就非常好，希望主計總處這邊以後能夠不要用這種方式，因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的距離非常遙遠，很多網軍也調侃，像剛剛很多的話，也有人說這是第四軍的薪水嗎？像這些問題我認為是沒有必要發生的。我們講實際一點，能夠成長我們當然是非常高興，為我們團隊所做出來的成績非常肯定，當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平，這樣好不好？"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，因為每一個行業不一樣，譬如4月份的平均薪資，住宿和餐飲業是3萬4,700元，如果是屬於美容美髮業就是3萬5,000元，製造業就是4萬4,000元，所以我們這裡也有把各種行業別……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦，怎麼加都不到6萬3,000元，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，那是總平均……"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在就不要再解釋了，那個我都有看到了，因為再講下去就沒有意思了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我只是希望以後我們公布這些數據的時候，希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況，這樣好不好？"],["陳主計長淑姿：而且前幾個月是因為有包括獎金，還有一些加班費在裡面，所以金額會偏高，是這樣子。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦，謝謝。我再請教院長，我知道現在談到錢就傷情感；談到權力，大家都快要翻臉了，國民黨最近在提要修財劃法，我相信院長你也知道，您對這件事有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：中央政府的財政跟地方政府的財政都應該做合理的規劃，在目前來看，中央政府每年從一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款對地方政府的補助，各項都是逐年在增加的，這也是在落實均衡臺灣，我想未來在現在財劃法規定的範圍裡面，我們還是會擴大對地方政府的補助。"],["邱委員鎮軍：賴清德總統在2012年當賴市長的時候有提過、在2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修財劃法。前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢，院長是說當時和現在的時空背景不一樣，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：不僅如此，也要看看當時為什麼推不下去，一定是遭遇到了很多的困難。"],["邱委員鎮軍：應該是這樣講……"],["卓院長榮泰：但這個現象今天還是存在的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，應該是這樣講啦，不是說推得下去、推不下去，您認為有沒有需要改進？這個有沒有需要調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得這個大家應該可以公開合理的對話，但是也要考慮到中央政府近年來對地方的補助是一直在增加的，而且從工建、從前瞻、從長照、從各方面的社會福利，這種增加的趨勢是不會緩下來的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我知道你們都有在做，很好啊，比如像你們之前說的，我們的長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困振興、國防的這些政策，這幾年都有在做，可是做完之後，你有沒有覺得……我們每年還超收3,000億，對不對？3,000億的錢，扣掉還債1,530億，再補台電1,000億，還有剩600億，也就是說，我們今天修這個財政收支劃分法，並不會影響到我們做剛剛講的這些長照服務、前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等，這些都不太會影響。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我請部長跟你說明，我覺得稅收的增加，一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守，但最重要的是大家、人民的努力，那這個要厚植國力，我們必須以國家的高度跟角色來看，是不是請部長答復一下？"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，部長講一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員說明，我們的稅收每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的，我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話，第一個，我們會減少舉債，像去年1,732億就沒有借錢。第二個，我們會增加還債，所以去年我們還了1,260億，剩下的錢我們就會累計到歲計賸餘，那歲計賸餘其實就會作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要，這個對財政量能的累積以及財政的韌性，是有必要這樣做的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我請問一下，您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：知道。"],["邱委員鎮軍：除了修財劃法之外，您覺得要怎麼樣才能夠幫助、解決苗栗現在的困境？"],["莊部長翠雲：苗栗縣的狀況是它的債限超過了目前公債法的規定，所以這個部分……"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實當初我們認為……"],["莊部長翠雲：其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真地在還債。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當初主計總處其實也有責任啦，你不能說當年舉債舉超過了，然後現在要地方、後來的縣長來揹，我覺得這也不公平啦，本來當時應該就要反映、應該就要制止，讓它發生當然是不好，但這個過去的事情我們不想再提，我們現在只是想問要怎麼樣來協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我先跟委員說明一下，其實苗栗縣政府也非常努力，它的一個債務還債計畫，一直是符合行政院規定的，同時有關補助的部分，其實主計總處對於苗栗縣的補助，因為它財政能力的關係，所以相對地它的補助比例會比較高。"],["邱委員鎮軍：在我看來，苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢，其實苗栗的創稅能力相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多，但是因為我們統籌分配款已經25年沒有去修改，這25年來的變化很大，其實你看，我們從以前的兩都現在到六都了，現在除了非六都的十六個縣市，甚至臺南、高雄，他們也支持財政收支劃分法的修法，這樣講啦，我們不希望看到朝野嚴重的對立，就像現在在修財劃法，我們大家都知道，我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚，萬一院版一直都不提出來，到時候三讀之後，院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎？是不是又要提釋憲？是不是又要提覆議？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們當然是希望就財劃法現在的內容做檢討，合理的討論都可以，但是委員應該知道，苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的，所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助，剛剛部長說過了，額度都比較高，而苗栗縣政府對於一些公共建設自籌的部分也相對的低，未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣的財政能力，就沒有辦法再做衡平的考量……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你只要給苗栗縣多一點，它就不會跟你要錢啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：就變成齊頭式的水平分配而已。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對不對？你只要有合理的財劃法的分配，苗栗縣就不需要每一件事情都跟中央要，這是相對的嘛！它有錢的話幹嘛跟你要呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是如果是水平分配變成一種齊頭式的，那當然這個能力就會喪失掉。"],["邱委員鎮軍：院長，我這樣講，我希望院版的出來，大家可以朝野協商，我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本就是要照單全收，我希望院版的出來之後，我們大家可以坐下來談，因為這是關乎於整個臺灣的發展，我不希望它變成政治鬥爭的一個工具，讓整個臺灣在空轉，院長，你支持這樣的說法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院現在就是依照現在的財政收支劃分辦法來做執行，那我們現在用……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你有沒有想要調整呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前在財劃法的內容當中，我們認為現在的執行，中央對地方可以做很大的幫忙跟補助，而且地方實際上也得到每年越來越多的補助，所以這個方向目前看來絕對是正確的，我們希望用這個基礎來做討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這樣怎麼會正確呢？你把錢抓在手上，高興就給、不高興就不給……"],["卓院長榮泰：這不是高不高興，我們是看地方的需求……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這樣的話每個縣市……"],["卓院長榮泰：地方的需求跟急迫性。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，我還是覺得為了臺灣的安定，因為我認為財劃法應該也是最近會來三讀，到時候搞成又要覆議、又要釋憲，對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好，我請院長三思好不好？我們再做一個調整。"],["卓院長榮泰：中央還是要有很強的財政分配的比例，比方說這次花蓮的震災，一下子拿出這麼多錢，就是中央集了很多的錢才有辦法做到的，所以應付天災地變的能力，絕對是要把它考慮在內的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好啦！我順著現在院長講到的，我再想到一件事情，前幾天洪孟楷委員在這邊問過院長，就NCC的4位委員的名單，請教您是否給予背書，你有看過，當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛！現在已經過了兩個禮拜，您看過這份名單了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然知道這個名單。"],["邱委員鎮軍：您現在是同意這份名單還是要調整？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，如果你不同意，你可以講啊！那個是可以換的，對不對？如果你覺得那不好，是不是要把名單調整過再送進來？因為他們現在停在那邊，不知道要不要審。"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得應該是照它的時間，大院可以在程序上立刻進行，對這些名單表示意見。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你到底同不同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為它已經送進來，我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡面……"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實他們在等你，他們問院長……因為我們知道520才換嘛！當然這是陳前院長他的名單，但我們尊重新的院長，因為畢竟未來還是要配合的，你今天如果有意見，其實他們都在等院長您的回復，如果您認為有問題，私下講，我們可以不要在這邊講啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，那……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你偷偷的換也可以啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是不是能夠再經過各黨團意見取得一致，我們來跟大家商量，看到底要怎麼樣來進行，因為NCC不只是單一的任務，它負責很多執照的發給等等，如果讓它停頓下來，對國家、對人民都是非常非常不適當的，所以應該在時間內就儘量完成人事的同意。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，再麻煩院長這個部分快一點。","接下來還是民生的問題，我想經濟部水利署正在研議無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫，本席看到近3年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升，有兩個區呈現倒退的情形，尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全臺倒數第4名。院長，您知道是什麼原因嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：其實在前瞻基礎建設裡面，苗栗縣得到相關自來水普及的預算也有十六億多，應該占整個前瞻預算的10%左右，應該把它落實下去執行，因為我知道水管的更替、更換等等，或是新設水管，這個都是一個相當繁複的工程，地方政府也要配合。"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實是這樣，我跟院長報告，我發現主要的原因就是自來水延管工程的物價及施工成本大幅的攀升，這是其中一個原因，但是我們政府核定的卻只有1戶60萬元，為什麼是60萬呢？我為什麼會這樣講？我們到現在普及率沒有辦法提高，是因為會沒有自來水的地區，幾乎都是比較偏遠地區，這是一定的，如果你還是以60萬元去做設定的時候，我告訴院長，您這幾年是看不到成績的。偏遠的地方，尤其是原住民等無自來水的地區，成本超過60萬的申請案件，根本就沒有辦法獲得核定，這是最主要的一個原因，我也希望院長能夠提高限制。我知道經濟部水利署好像也向行政院申請延管工程，要把每戶批准的上限調高，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在是這樣子，如果每戶超過60萬比較高的費用，可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式，至於這個是不是適足以解決目前的困難？這當然還要再仔細地去看看執行的結果如何。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了，好像要提高到80萬元1戶，希望院長能夠幫忙，讓原住民地區能夠到100萬。其實像苗栗縣，苗栗縣有5個水庫，周邊的很多居民，水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水，你知道這種情形嗎？就是因為卡在60萬元的限制之內，他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的一個水資源，而且水庫就在他家旁邊，這是多麼諷刺，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟部應該跟水利署來研究，怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式，我們來共同來討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：請院長多多幫忙，好不好？儘量讓普及率能夠提升，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外，臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山，科技島淪為垃圾島，過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收領導的國家，但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長，去年有高達171.5萬噸的事業廢棄物被送進一般的焚化爐燃燒，排擠到我們家戶垃圾的去化。加上焚化爐的屆齡整改，妥善處理率降為93%，全臺灣冒出一百多座暫存的垃圾山，光是去年一年的暫存量，就達到了84萬公噸。我們部長有講過，希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化，但是做去化就要12年，以現在的量來算的話是12年，如果沒有擴大處理，我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島。院長，我請問一下，我們政府大力推動整改以及新設垃圾處理設施，像這樣的速度，什麼時候可以把它打平，不再增加？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題，所以日前我也特別請他來就垃圾裸露、堆積的這個現象，希望他提出一個近程、中程可以解決的方式，而部長有他很精密的計算，跟他工程的計畫，是不是容許部長來向委員說明？"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，請部長說明。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實第一個垃圾要零成長，資源回收降低垃圾量是最主要的觀念，但是我們過去因為整改，大概有84萬噸沒錯，其中有七十多萬噸是裸露的，全臺灣沒有百岳啦，大概只有53座的垃圾露天的掩埋。我們目前經過盤點後，4年內會把露天的，我們會特別透過所謂的打包，還有整個用填土方式先處理，4年內大概慢慢地就可以看不到裸露的狀況。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你有地方可以倒，可以掩埋了嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：目前來看的話，因為我們的焚化爐大概要花5、6年才會正式的上來，現在的量真的不夠，焚化廠已經老了……"],["邱委員鎮軍：現階段要怎麼處理？"],["彭部長啓明：如果要把所有的垃圾清掉，真的還要再幾年的時間，但是我們先解決露天掩埋的部分。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是我們好像不能等吧？以現在的垃圾量，不光是垃圾，還有事業廢棄物等等，這些都沒地方去啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對，現在來說，我們第一個先以一般的家庭垃圾為主，但是因為我們有很多BOT的焚化爐，它也有跟事業廢棄物簽約，我們尊重過去的合約，以現在來看，我們預期未來露天的、沒有掩埋的、在外面的垃圾，大概4年內可以解決。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得是這樣，我在這邊建議，其實大家都知道垃圾要處理，但是就不要在我家旁邊設，這是目前最困難的問題，所以我希望中央能夠極力的主導，要求各縣市政府配合。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得從上到下會比較好，你也知道，縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨一般民眾的抗爭等等，這部分確實是影響了我們現在的垃圾處理量，就像我們家的要蓋房子一樣，蓋房子總是要有一個化糞池，化糞池總不能蓋到別人家去，我希望各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量，尤其在新興的產業園區或者是科學園區等等，在設置時是不是也一併把處理廠規劃在裡面？"],["彭部長啓明：對，這個是我們現在規劃的方向。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得從這個角度進去，這樣對整個事情的發展會比較好，自己的垃圾自己處理嘛！這樣在園區裡面反對的聲音自然就會下降，因為是大家的垃圾，周邊應該也不會有其他的人，我想……"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員，報告委員，其實依照地方自治法，垃圾屬於地方自治的項目，但是中央會全力協助地方，我們會一個縣市、一個縣市的跟縣市首長談這個問題，會幫助他們。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，很贊成委員的講法，如果地方政府都有基本能力處理垃圾，會解決很大的問題，中央彭部長現在提的就是53處垃圾堆積、裸露的部分，共84萬噸，要逐年完成，他剛剛說4年，我之前還要求，早一天完成就能讓我們避免滋生其他的問題，所以應該要把時程往前拉。"],["邱委員鎮軍：其實我想大部分縣市政府應該都是比較支持的……"],["彭部長啓明：這個報告委員，很多縣市政府要AI資料中心而不要垃圾焚化爐。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我講了，自己的垃圾自己處理啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們現在會鼓勵他們。"],["邱委員鎮軍：本來就應該要這樣子，把不好的都往外推，好的要留下來，哪有這種事情，對不對？希望中央有一套健全的作法，讓地方政府好配合嘛，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["邱委員鎮軍：最後一個，我想問一下，我在委員會有提過幾次，麻醉藥品「依托咪酯」遭到濫用並做成電子煙，這部分我也質詢了許多次，當然也感謝衛福部跟食藥署有儘快的規劃，已經把依托咪酯列為三級毒品。謝謝，也肯定大家的積極性，不過我們面臨新興毒品殘害的年齡一直往下降，毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度，院長，您對這個有沒有什麼想法？"],["卓院長榮泰：對的，誠如委員所說，現在任何犯罪集團跟手法，還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化，政府機關應該要趕上腳步，審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會、危害青少年的態樣……"],["邱委員鎮軍：應該要快一點……"],["卓院長榮泰：要儘速的因應，才能夠保護大家的安全。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，因為現在真的……當我們把一個毒品列為三級之後，他們又換一個名稱、換一個包裝，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：一直這樣下去，對我們的青少年危害非常的大……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以我希望行政院能夠主導相關進度，讓這樣的事情能夠儘快進入狀況、能夠管控，這樣好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們加快腳步，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","張雅琳","邱鎮軍","黃捷","廖先翔","陳冠廷","許宇甄","吳宗憲"],"page_start":29,"meetingDate":["2024-06-14"],"gazette_id":"1135701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135701_00002","1135701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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869.826, \"end\": 870.266, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 870.266, \"end\": 870.406, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 870.406, \"end\": 870.726, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 870.726, \"end\": 870.947, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 870.947, \"end\": 871.187, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"韌\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 871.187, \"end\": 871.387, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 871.387, \"end\": 871.507, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 871.507, \"end\": 871.667, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 871.667, \"end\": 871.767, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 871.767, \"end\": 871.927, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 871.927, \"end\": 872.428, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 872.428, \"end\": 872.448, \"score\": 0.863}]}, {\"start\": 873.035, \"end\": 892.56, \"text\": \"那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 873.035, \"end\": 873.395, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 873.395, \"end\": 873.495, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 873.495, \"end\": 873.575, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 873.575, \"end\": 873.815, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 873.815, \"end\": 874.035, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 874.035, \"end\": 874.115, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 874.115, \"end\": 874.235, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 874.235, \"end\": 874.475, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"苗\", \"start\": 874.475, \"end\": 874.635, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"栗\", \"start\": 874.635, \"end\": 874.896, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 882.998, \"end\": 884.098, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"苗\", \"start\": 884.098, \"end\": 884.298, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"栗\", \"start\": 884.298, \"end\": 884.638, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 884.638, \"end\": 885.278, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 885.278, \"end\": 885.438, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 885.438, \"end\": 885.618, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 885.618, \"end\": 885.758, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 885.758, \"end\": 886.178, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 886.178, \"end\": 886.379, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 886.379, \"end\": 886.479, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 886.479, \"end\": 886.959, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 886.959, \"end\": 887.239, 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\"實\"}, {\"word\": \"苗\", \"start\": 889.859, \"end\": 890.039, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"栗\", \"start\": 890.039, \"end\": 890.18, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 890.18, \"end\": 890.38, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 890.38, \"end\": 890.66, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 890.66, \"end\": 890.86, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 890.86, \"end\": 890.98, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 890.98, \"end\": 891.08, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 891.08, \"end\": 891.16, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 891.16, \"end\": 891.18, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 891.18, \"end\": 891.22, \"score\": 0.479}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 891.22, \"end\": 891.24, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 891.24, \"end\": 891.34, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 891.34, \"end\": 891.36, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 891.36, \"end\": 891.38, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 891.38, \"end\": 891.52, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 891.52, \"end\": 891.58, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 891.58, \"end\": 891.6, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 891.6, \"end\": 891.62, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 891.62, \"end\": 891.76, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 891.76, \"end\": 891.78, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"債\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 891.78, \"end\": 891.88, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 891.88, \"end\": 891.9, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 891.9, \"end\": 891.96, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 891.96, \"end\": 892.1, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 892.1, \"end\": 892.24, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 892.24, \"end\": 892.44, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 892.44, \"end\": 892.54, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 892.54, \"end\": 892.56, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 899.802, \"end\": 914.431, \"text\": \"後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 899.802, \"end\": 900.062, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 900.062, \"end\": 900.643, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 900.643, \"end\": 900.783, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 900.783, \"end\": 901.023, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 901.023, \"end\": 901.223, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 901.223, \"end\": 901.643, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 901.643, \"end\": 901.763, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 901.763, \"end\": 901.983, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 901.983, \"end\": 902.244, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 902.244, \"end\": 902.604, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 902.604, \"end\": 904.285, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 904.285, \"end\": 904.425, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 904.425, \"end\": 904.565, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 904.565, \"end\": 905.325, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 905.325, \"end\": 905.425, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 905.425, \"end\": 905.565, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 905.565, \"end\": 905.766, 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{\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 908.747, \"end\": 908.887, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 908.887, \"end\": 909.047, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 909.047, \"end\": 909.148, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 909.148, \"end\": 909.328, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 909.328, \"end\": 909.588, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 909.588, \"end\": 910.188, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 910.188, \"end\": 910.328, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 910.328, \"end\": 910.528, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 910.528, \"end\": 910.628, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 910.628, \"end\": 910.688, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 910.688, \"end\": 911.349, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 911.349, \"end\": 912.009, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 912.009, \"end\": 912.449, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 912.449, \"end\": 912.57, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"苗\", \"start\": 912.57, \"end\": 912.71, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"栗\", \"start\": 912.71, \"end\": 913.27, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 913.27, \"end\": 913.87, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 913.87, \"end\": 913.99, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 913.99, \"end\": 914.13, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 914.13, \"end\": 914.411, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 914.411, \"end\": 914.431, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 916.943, \"end\": 943.159, \"text\": \"這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 916.943, \"end\": 917.083, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 917.083, \"end\": 917.224, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 917.224, \"end\": 917.364, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 917.364, \"end\": 917.584, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 917.584, \"end\": 917.844, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 917.844, \"end\": 918.364, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 918.364, \"end\": 918.504, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 918.504, \"end\": 918.584, \"score\": 0.508}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 918.584, \"end\": 918.824, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"苗\", \"start\": 918.824, \"end\": 919.005, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"栗\", \"start\": 919.005, \"end\": 919.345, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 919.345, \"end\": 919.845, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, 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{\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1447.405, \"end\": 1448.586, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1448.586, \"end\": 1448.706, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1448.706, \"end\": 1448.847, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1448.847, \"end\": 1448.967, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 1448.967, \"end\": 1448.987, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 1452.551, \"end\": 1469.667, \"text\": \"﹚議員﹚\", \"words\": []}, {\"start\": 1470.168, \"end\": 1491.468, \"text\": \"那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1470.168, \"end\": 1470.308, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1470.308, \"end\": 1471.029, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, 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{\"word\": \"陽\", \"start\": 1811.826, \"end\": 1812.466, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 1812.466, \"end\": 1812.586, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1812.586, \"end\": 1812.927, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1812.927, \"end\": 1813.547, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 1813.547, \"end\": 1813.667, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1813.667, \"end\": 1813.867, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1813.867, \"end\": 1814.147, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1814.147, \"end\": 1814.287, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 1814.287, \"end\": 1814.367, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1814.367, \"end\": 1814.467, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 1814.467, \"end\": 1814.607, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 1814.607, \"end\": 1815.227, 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\"start\": 1821.229, \"end\": 1821.429, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 1821.429, \"end\": 1822.17, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"稱\"}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1822.17, \"end\": 1822.39, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 1822.39, \"end\": 1822.41, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"裝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 1823.11, \"end\": 1823.19, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"鎮\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1823.19, \"end\": 1823.27, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1823.27, \"end\": 1823.39, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1823.39, \"end\": 1823.55, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 1823.55, \"end\": 1824.23, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1824.23, \"end\": 1824.33, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1824.33, \"end\": 1824.43, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 1824.43, \"end\": 1824.611, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1824.611, \"end\": 1825.111, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1825.111, \"end\": 1825.231, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 1825.231, \"end\": 1825.331, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1825.331, \"end\": 1825.451, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"捷\", \"start\": 1825.451, \"end\": 1825.591, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1825.591, \"end\": 1825.611, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:19,157 --> 00:00:22,384\n主席好,我們有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。\n\n2\n00:00:31,853 --> 00:00:51,888\n議員好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得蠻感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題\n\n3\n00:00:53,589 --> 00:01:20,652\n當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案\n\n4\n00:01:21,434 --> 00:01:29,382\n我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是\n\n5\n00:01:30,868 --> 00:01:53,346\n那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨盡求遠不提高在苗栗產業園區的一個面積呢\n\n6\n00:01:57,405 --> 00:02:11,672\n國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫\n\n7\n00:02:13,077 --> 00:02:31,911\n我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來。那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃。我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:35,060 --> 00:02:47,390\n跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,\n\n9\n00:02:58,319 --> 00:02:58,859\n好的這個我們可以來研議另外\n\n10\n00:03:27,096 --> 00:03:55,003\n我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩\n\n11\n00:03:56,107 --> 00:04:21,262\n那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多陳情,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。\n\n12\n00:04:22,482 --> 00:04:44,938\n舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:47,445 --> 00:05:09,460\n今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。\n\n14\n00:05:10,541 --> 00:05:28,987\n所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有,他是合法的就沒問題。合法的都沒問題。那不合法的本來就是不合法,現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處。不會因為國土計畫改變了以後,非法的就完全一夕之間變合法。\n\n15\n00:05:31,223 --> 00:05:49,712\n因為有些說實在他是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,他本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。\n\n16\n00:05:50,722 --> 00:06:04,116\n當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好\n\n17\n00:06:04,858 --> 00:06:32,140\n那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整理的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說國土計畫土地使用管理規則裡面,\n\n18\n00:06:33,301 --> 00:06:42,011\n預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制,也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠,這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定,像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了,要以哪個為主?\n\n19\n00:06:51,843 --> 00:06:53,283\n總量管制是誰限制的?\n\n20\n00:07:12,688 --> 00:07:29,350\n就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。\n\n21\n00:07:30,331 --> 00:07:56,830\n對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有一個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫\n\n22\n00:08:11,988 --> 00:08:12,328\n請部長回去\n\n23\n00:08:44,717 --> 00:08:58,188\n主計處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字\n\n24\n00:09:00,060 --> 00:09:28,935\n我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式,但是傳統上他就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕,因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼,\n\n25\n00:09:29,628 --> 00:09:53,379\n是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多\n\n26\n00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:19,666\n這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟他是有感情是接近的\n\n27\n00:10:20,106 --> 00:10:22,191\n對阿,因為這個確實這樣講您這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊主席總處這邊能夠回去\n\n28\n00:10:27,711 --> 00:10:54,708\n以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來的成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好\n\n29\n00:10:55,421 --> 00:11:23,398\n報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們\n\n30\n00:11:24,278 --> 00:11:47,698\n公布這些數據的時候希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況這樣好不好而且還前幾個月他是因為有包括獎金還有一些加班會在裡面所以就會金額偏高是這樣子好啦好謝謝好謝謝那我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情了談到權力大家都快要翻臉了\n\n31\n00:11:49,804 --> 00:11:56,748\n國民黨最近在提修我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?\n\n32\n00:11:58,561 --> 00:11:58,781\n我們的賴清德總統在2012年\n\n33\n00:12:27,268 --> 00:12:55,075\n的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當時現在的時空背景不一樣對不對不僅如此你要看看當時為什麼推不下去一定是遭到了很多的困難應該是這樣講這個現象今天還是存在的對應該是這樣講不是說推不下去推得下去推不下去您認為有沒有需要改進\n\n34\n00:12:56,015 --> 00:12:57,236\n我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的\n\n35\n00:13:14,734 --> 00:13:29,320\n我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊\n\n36\n00:13:36,983 --> 00:14:02,965\n也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下\n\n37\n00:14:03,585 --> 00:14:32,448\n跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的\n\n38\n00:14:33,035 --> 00:14:52,560\n那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方\n\n39\n00:14:59,802 --> 00:15:14,431\n後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境\n\n40\n00:15:16,943 --> 00:15:43,159\n這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力\n\n41\n00:15:43,812 --> 00:16:10,575\n相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改\n\n42\n00:16:11,555 --> 00:16:35,495\n我希望這樣講我們不希望看到這個朝野嚴重的對立就像現在在修這個才化法我們大家都知道我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚當然這個東西萬一現在大家院板都一直不提出來三讀到時候三讀之後是不是我想院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎是不是又要提視線\n\n43\n00:16:37,978 --> 00:16:59,040\n我們當然是希望現在的裁判法我們再來做就現在的內容做檢討合理的討論都可以但是委員應該知道苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助剛剛部長說過了額度都比較高而苗栗縣政府對一些公共建設的自籌的部分也相對的低\n\n44\n00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:05,847\n未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣財政能力,就沒有辦法再做合比的考量,就變成齊同式的,水平分配而已。\n\n45\n00:17:15,097 --> 00:17:39,448\n這是相對的嘛,他有錢他幹嘛跟你要勒?當然不是齊頭式啦,因為我這樣講,我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商。我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要照單全收。我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談,因為這是關乎於整個台灣的一個發展。\n\n46\n00:17:40,309 --> 00:17:40,649\n我目前在這個\n\n47\n00:17:58,396 --> 00:18:01,118\n這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。我們是看地方的需求跟急迫性。\n\n48\n00:18:23,184 --> 00:18:46,954\n我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為財化法應該也是最近也會來煽毒那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好那我請這個院長三思好不好我們再做一個調整中央還是要有很強的財政的\n\n49\n00:18:58,025 --> 00:19:26,361\n這個能力的應付,絕對是要把他考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的市委委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書嗎?你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?\n\n50\n00:19:28,318 --> 00:19:52,930\n因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?\n\n51\n00:19:53,919 --> 00:20:18,179\n因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛。那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。\n\n52\n00:20:19,718 --> 00:20:20,118\n你脫脫這個範圍可以啊。\n\n53\n00:20:40,191 --> 00:21:08,889\n好,再麻煩院長這個部分快一點那接下來還是民生的問題我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫那本期看到是近三年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第四名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎\n\n54\n00:21:10,370 --> 00:21:11,070\n其實是這樣,我跟院長報告\n\n55\n00:21:36,704 --> 00:21:47,447\n我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的\n\n56\n00:22:35,157 --> 00:23:02,958\n行政院申請嚴管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高對吧我們現在是這樣子這個如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難這當然還要再去仔細的去看看他執行的結果如何我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了他好像要提高到80萬元一戶\n\n57\n00:23:05,071 --> 00:23:31,307\n希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民,水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。\n\n58\n00:23:33,378 --> 00:23:56,757\n應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島\n\n59\n00:23:59,494 --> 00:24:08,987\n過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬\n\n60\n00:24:30,168 --> 00:24:51,468\n那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下\n\n61\n00:24:54,330 --> 00:25:03,136\n我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平\n\n62\n00:25:04,322 --> 00:25:23,784\n報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾垃圾堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明\n\n63\n00:25:24,905 --> 00:25:41,567\n報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的那全台灣沒有百月大概只有\n\n64\n00:25:42,108 --> 00:25:45,769\n那你有地方了嗎?有地方可以掩埋了嗎?\n\n65\n00:26:01,793 --> 00:26:25,098\n目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊\n\n66\n00:26:25,598 --> 00:26:26,239\n我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議\n\n67\n00:26:48,596 --> 00:27:16,056\n就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量\n\n68\n00:27:17,073 --> 00:27:24,517\n我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的\n\n69\n00:27:45,606 --> 00:27:49,628\n謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們\n\n70\n00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:32,098\n謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分八十四萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成\n\n71\n00:28:32,698 --> 00:28:59,745\n就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的。報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?\n\n72\n00:29:00,775 --> 00:29:27,452\n希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?好,謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個\n\n73\n00:29:29,168 --> 00:29:53,064\n實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?\n\n74\n00:29:53,840 --> 00:30:22,410\n對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝\n\n75\n00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:25,611\n謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n19157\t22384\t主席好,我們有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。\n31853\t51888\t議員好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得蠻感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題\n53589\t80652\t當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案\n81434\t89382\t我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是\n90868\t113346\t那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨盡求遠不提高在苗栗產業園區的一個面積呢\n117405\t131672\t國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫\n133077\t151911\t我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來。那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃。我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?\n155060\t167390\t跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,\n178319\t178859\t好的 這個我們可以來研議另外\n207096\t235003\t我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩\n236107\t261262\t那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多陳情,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。\n262482\t284938\t舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?\n287445\t309460\t今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。\n310541\t328987\t所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有,他是合法的就沒問題。合法的都沒問題。那不合法的本來就是不合法,現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處。不會因為國土計畫改變了以後,非法的就完全一夕之間變合法。\n331223\t349712\t因為有些說實在他是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,他本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。\n350722\t364116\t當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好\n364858\t392140\t那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整理的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說國土計畫土地使用管理規則裡面,\n393301\t402011\t預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制,也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠,這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定,像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了,要以哪個為主?\n411843\t413283\t總量管制是誰限制的?\n432688\t449350\t就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。\n450331\t476830\t對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有一個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫\n478251\t491715\t﹚議員\n491988\t492328\t請部長回去\n524717\t538188\t主計處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字\n540060\t568935\t我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式,但是傳統上他就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕,因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼,\n569628\t593379\t是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多\n596200\t619666\t這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟他是有感情是接近的\n620106\t622191\t對阿,因為這個確實這樣講您這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊主席總處這邊能夠回去\n627711\t654708\t以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來的成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好\n655421\t683398\t報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們\n684278\t707698\t公布這些數據的時候希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況這樣好不好而且還前幾個月他是因為有包括獎金還有一些加班會在裡面所以就會金額偏高是這樣子好啦好謝謝好謝謝那我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情了談到權力大家都快要翻臉了\n709804\t716748\t國民黨最近在提修我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?\n718561\t718781\t我們的賴清德總統在2012年\n747268\t775075\t的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當時現在的時空背景不一樣對不對不僅如此你要看看當時為什麼推不下去一定是遭到了很多的困難應該是這樣講這個現象今天還是存在的對應該是這樣講不是說推不下去推得下去推不下去您認為有沒有需要改進\n776015\t777236\t我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的\n794734\t809320\t我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊\n816983\t842965\t也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下\n843585\t872448\t跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的\n873035\t892560\t那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方\n899802\t914431\t後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境\n916943\t943159\t這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力\n943812\t970575\t相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改\n971555\t995495\t我希望這樣講我們不希望看到這個朝野嚴重的對立就像現在在修這個才化法我們大家都知道我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚當然這個東西萬一現在大家院板都一直不提出來三讀到時候三讀之後是不是我想院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎是不是又要提視線\n997978\t1019040\t我們當然是希望現在的裁判法我們再來做就現在的內容做檢討合理的討論都可以但是委員應該知道苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助剛剛部長說過了額度都比較高而苗栗縣政府對一些公共建設的自籌的部分也相對的低\n1019600\t1025847\t未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣財政能力,就沒有辦法再做合比的考量,就變成齊同式的,水平分配而已。\n1035097\t1059448\t這是相對的嘛,他有錢他幹嘛跟你要勒?當然不是齊頭式啦,因為我這樣講,我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商。我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要照單全收。我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談,因為這是關乎於整個台灣的一個發展。\n1060309\t1060649\t我目前在這個\n1078396\t1081118\t這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。我們是看地方的需求跟急迫性。\n1103184\t1126954\t我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為財化法應該也是最近也會來煽毒那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好那我請這個院長三思好不好我們再做一個調整中央還是要有很強的財政的\n1127534\t1137483\t﹚議員\n1138025\t1166361\t這個能力的應付,絕對是要把他考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的市委委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書嗎?你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?\n1168318\t1192930\t因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?\n1193919\t1218179\t因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛。那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。\n1219718\t1220118\t你脫脫這個範圍可以啊。\n1240191\t1268889\t好,再麻煩院長這個部分快一點那接下來還是民生的問題我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫那本期看到是近三年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第四名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎\n1270370\t1271070\t其實是這樣,我跟院長報告\n1296704\t1307447\t我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的\n1307978\t1333422\t⋯⋯\n1334548\t1354838\t﹚議員﹚\n1355157\t1382958\t行政院申請嚴管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高對吧我們現在是這樣子這個如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難這當然還要再去仔細的去看看他執行的結果如何我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了他好像要提高到80萬元一戶\n1385071\t1411307\t希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民,水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。\n1413378\t1436757\t應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島\n1439494\t1448987\t過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬\n1452551\t1469667\t﹚議員﹚\n1470168\t1491468\t那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下\n1494330\t1503136\t我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平\n1504322\t1523784\t報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾垃圾堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明\n1524905\t1541567\t報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的那全台灣沒有百月大概只有\n1542108\t1545769\t那你有地方了嗎?有地方可以掩埋了嗎?\n1561793\t1585098\t目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊\n1585598\t1586239\t我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議\n1608596\t1636056\t就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量\n1637073\t1644517\t我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的\n1665606\t1669628\t謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們\n1693909\t1712098\t謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分八十四萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成\n1712698\t1739745\t就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的。報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?\n1740775\t1767452\t希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?好,謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個\n1769168\t1793064\t實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?\n1793840\t1822410\t對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝\n1823110\t1825611\t謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢\n","txt":"主席好,我們有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。\n議員好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得蠻感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題\n當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案\n我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是\n那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨盡求遠不提高在苗栗產業園區的一個面積呢\n國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫\n我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來。那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃。我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?\n跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,\n好的 這個我們可以來研議另外\n我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩\n那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多陳情,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。\n舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?\n今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。\n所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有,他是合法的就沒問題。合法的都沒問題。那不合法的本來就是不合法,現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處。不會因為國土計畫改變了以後,非法的就完全一夕之間變合法。\n因為有些說實在他是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,他本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。\n當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好\n那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整理的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說國土計畫土地使用管理規則裡面,\n預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制,也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠,這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定,像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了,要以哪個為主?\n總量管制是誰限制的?\n就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。\n對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有一個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫\n﹚議員\n請部長回去\n主計處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字\n我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式,但是傳統上他就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕,因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼,\n是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多\n這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟他是有感情是接近的\n對阿,因為這個確實這樣講您這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊主席總處這邊能夠回去\n以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來的成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好\n報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們\n公布這些數據的時候希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況這樣好不好而且還前幾個月他是因為有包括獎金還有一些加班會在裡面所以就會金額偏高是這樣子好啦好謝謝好謝謝那我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情了談到權力大家都快要翻臉了\n國民黨最近在提修我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?\n我們的賴清德總統在2012年\n的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當時現在的時空背景不一樣對不對不僅如此你要看看當時為什麼推不下去一定是遭到了很多的困難應該是這樣講這個現象今天還是存在的對應該是這樣講不是說推不下去推得下去推不下去您認為有沒有需要改進\n我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的\n我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊\n也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下\n跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的\n那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方\n後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境\n這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力\n相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改\n我希望這樣講我們不希望看到這個朝野嚴重的對立就像現在在修這個才化法我們大家都知道我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚當然這個東西萬一現在大家院板都一直不提出來三讀到時候三讀之後是不是我想院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎是不是又要提視線\n我們當然是希望現在的裁判法我們再來做就現在的內容做檢討合理的討論都可以但是委員應該知道苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助剛剛部長說過了額度都比較高而苗栗縣政府對一些公共建設的自籌的部分也相對的低\n未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣財政能力,就沒有辦法再做合比的考量,就變成齊同式的,水平分配而已。\n這是相對的嘛,他有錢他幹嘛跟你要勒?當然不是齊頭式啦,因為我這樣講,我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商。我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要照單全收。我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談,因為這是關乎於整個台灣的一個發展。\n我目前在這個\n這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。我們是看地方的需求跟急迫性。\n我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為財化法應該也是最近也會來煽毒那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好那我請這個院長三思好不好我們再做一個調整中央還是要有很強的財政的\n﹚議員\n這個能力的應付,絕對是要把他考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的市委委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書嗎?你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?\n因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?\n因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛。那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。\n你脫脫這個範圍可以啊。\n好,再麻煩院長這個部分快一點那接下來還是民生的問題我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫那本期看到是近三年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第四名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎\n其實是這樣,我跟院長報告\n我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的\n⋯⋯\n﹚議員﹚\n行政院申請嚴管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高對吧我們現在是這樣子這個如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難這當然還要再去仔細的去看看他執行的結果如何我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了他好像要提高到80萬元一戶\n希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民,水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。\n應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島\n過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬\n﹚議員﹚\n那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下\n我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平\n報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾垃圾堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明\n報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的那全台灣沒有百月大概只有\n那你有地方了嗎?有地方可以掩埋了嗎?\n目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊\n我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議\n就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量\n我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的\n謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們\n謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分八十四萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成\n就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的。報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?\n希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?好,謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個\n實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?\n對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝\n謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:19.157 --> 00:22.384\n主席好,我們有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。\n\n00:31.853 --> 00:51.888\n議員好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得蠻感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題\n\n00:53.589 --> 01:20.652\n當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案\n\n01:21.434 --> 01:29.382\n我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是\n\n01:30.868 --> 01:53.346\n那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨盡求遠不提高在苗栗產業園區的一個面積呢\n\n01:57.405 --> 02:11.672\n國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫\n\n02:13.077 --> 02:31.911\n我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來。那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃。我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?\n\n02:35.060 --> 02:47.390\n跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,\n\n02:58.319 --> 02:58.859\n好的這個我們可以來研議另外\n\n03:27.096 --> 03:55.003\n我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩\n\n03:56.107 --> 04:21.262\n那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多陳情,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。\n\n04:22.482 --> 04:44.938\n舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?\n\n04:47.445 --> 05:09.460\n今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。\n\n05:10.541 --> 05:28.987\n所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有,他是合法的就沒問題。合法的都沒問題。那不合法的本來就是不合法,現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處。不會因為國土計畫改變了以後,非法的就完全一夕之間變合法。\n\n05:31.223 --> 05:49.712\n因為有些說實在他是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,他本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。\n\n05:50.722 --> 06:04.116\n當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好\n\n06:04.858 --> 06:32.140\n那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整理的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說國土計畫土地使用管理規則裡面,\n\n06:33.301 --> 06:42.011\n預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制,也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠,這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定,像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了,要以哪個為主?\n\n06:51.843 --> 06:53.283\n總量管制是誰限制的?\n\n07:12.688 --> 07:29.350\n就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。\n\n07:30.331 --> 07:56.830\n對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有一個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫\n\n08:11.988 --> 08:12.328\n請部長回去\n\n08:44.717 --> 08:58.188\n主計處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字\n\n09:00.060 --> 09:28.935\n我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式,但是傳統上他就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕,因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼,\n\n09:29.628 --> 09:53.379\n是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多\n\n09:56.200 --> 10:19.666\n這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟他是有感情是接近的\n\n10:20.106 --> 10:22.191\n對阿,因為這個確實這樣講您這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊主席總處這邊能夠回去\n\n10:27.711 --> 10:54.708\n以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來的成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好\n\n10:55.421 --> 11:23.398\n報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們\n\n11:24.278 --> 11:47.698\n公布這些數據的時候希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況這樣好不好而且還前幾個月他是因為有包括獎金還有一些加班會在裡面所以就會金額偏高是這樣子好啦好謝謝好謝謝那我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情了談到權力大家都快要翻臉了\n\n11:49.804 --> 11:56.748\n國民黨最近在提修我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?\n\n11:58.561 --> 11:58.781\n我們的賴清德總統在2012年\n\n12:27.268 --> 12:55.075\n的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當時現在的時空背景不一樣對不對不僅如此你要看看當時為什麼推不下去一定是遭到了很多的困難應該是這樣講這個現象今天還是存在的對應該是這樣講不是說推不下去推得下去推不下去您認為有沒有需要改進\n\n12:56.015 --> 12:57.236\n我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的\n\n13:14.734 --> 13:29.320\n我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊\n\n13:36.983 --> 14:02.965\n也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下\n\n14:03.585 --> 14:32.448\n跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的\n\n14:33.035 --> 14:52.560\n那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方\n\n14:59.802 --> 15:14.431\n後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境\n\n15:16.943 --> 15:43.159\n這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力\n\n15:43.812 --> 16:10.575\n相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改\n\n16:11.555 --> 16:35.495\n我希望這樣講我們不希望看到這個朝野嚴重的對立就像現在在修這個才化法我們大家都知道我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚當然這個東西萬一現在大家院板都一直不提出來三讀到時候三讀之後是不是我想院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎是不是又要提視線\n\n16:37.978 --> 16:59.040\n我們當然是希望現在的裁判法我們再來做就現在的內容做檢討合理的討論都可以但是委員應該知道苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助剛剛部長說過了額度都比較高而苗栗縣政府對一些公共建設的自籌的部分也相對的低\n\n16:59.600 --> 17:05.847\n未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣財政能力,就沒有辦法再做合比的考量,就變成齊同式的,水平分配而已。\n\n17:15.097 --> 17:39.448\n這是相對的嘛,他有錢他幹嘛跟你要勒?當然不是齊頭式啦,因為我這樣講,我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商。我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要照單全收。我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談,因為這是關乎於整個台灣的一個發展。\n\n17:40.309 --> 17:40.649\n我目前在這個\n\n17:58.396 --> 18:01.118\n這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。我們是看地方的需求跟急迫性。\n\n18:23.184 --> 18:46.954\n我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為財化法應該也是最近也會來煽毒那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好那我請這個院長三思好不好我們再做一個調整中央還是要有很強的財政的\n\n18:58.025 --> 19:26.361\n這個能力的應付,絕對是要把他考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的市委委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書嗎?你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?\n\n19:28.318 --> 19:52.930\n因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?\n\n19:53.919 --> 20:18.179\n因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛。那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。\n\n20:19.718 --> 20:20.118\n你脫脫這個範圍可以啊。\n\n20:40.191 --> 21:08.889\n好,再麻煩院長這個部分快一點那接下來還是民生的問題我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫那本期看到是近三年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第四名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎\n\n21:10.370 --> 21:11.070\n其實是這樣,我跟院長報告\n\n21:36.704 --> 21:47.447\n我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的\n\n22:35.157 --> 23:02.958\n行政院申請嚴管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高對吧我們現在是這樣子這個如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難這當然還要再去仔細的去看看他執行的結果如何我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了他好像要提高到80萬元一戶\n\n23:05.071 --> 23:31.307\n希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民,水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。\n\n23:33.378 --> 23:56.757\n應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島\n\n23:59.494 --> 24:08.987\n過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬\n\n24:30.168 --> 24:51.468\n那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下\n\n24:54.330 --> 25:03.136\n我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平\n\n25:04.322 --> 25:23.784\n報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾垃圾堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明\n\n25:24.905 --> 25:41.567\n報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的那全台灣沒有百月大概只有\n\n25:42.108 --> 25:45.769\n那你有地方了嗎?有地方可以掩埋了嗎?\n\n26:01.793 --> 26:25.098\n目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊\n\n26:25.598 --> 26:26.239\n我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議\n\n26:48.596 --> 27:16.056\n就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量\n\n27:17.073 --> 27:24.517\n我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的\n\n27:45.606 --> 27:49.628\n謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們\n\n28:13.909 --> 28:32.098\n謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分八十四萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成\n\n28:32.698 --> 28:59.745\n就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的。報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?\n\n29:00.775 --> 29:27.452\n希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?好,謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個\n\n29:29.168 --> 29:53.064\n實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?\n\n29:53.840 --> 30:22.410\n對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝\n\n30:23.110 --> 30:25.611\n謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":19.157,"end":22.384,"text":"主席好,我們有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。"},{"start":31.853,"end":51.888,"text":"議員好我看了您的這個施政方針第一頁我覺得蠻感動的您說將秉持誠意溝通人民優先展現解決問題的誠意與決心未來哪裡有困難您和行政單位就會到哪裡去哪裡有問題我們就想辦法解決問題"},{"start":53.589,"end":80.652,"text":"當然我看到是非常的高興我們有這樣的一個院長希望接下來我們的對話您能秉持一貫的態度來解決人民跟地方的問題我想請問一下我們院長賴清德總統在選前講過要把苗栗變成科技大縣因此國發會也配合推動桃株苗大細股計畫的一個推動方案"},{"start":81.434,"end":89.382,"text":"我們看到在方案簡報中苗栗的水、電都是規劃要往新竹送對吧?是"},{"start":90.868,"end":113.346,"text":"那我想要問的就是說在苗栗我們整個產業園區擴編1203公頃的計畫中苗栗縣只有145.6公頃大概只佔了九分之一那我想請問院長就是水寄來是從苗栗水電都是從苗栗送過去那為什麼要捨盡求遠不提高在苗栗產業園區的一個面積呢"},{"start":117.405,"end":131.672,"text":"國發會關於這個桃竹苗大細股的推動方案這已經是跟地方政府在協調當中我們希望他能夠早日的落實那具體在實現這個過程國發會有他目前的工程的進度跟計畫"},{"start":133.077,"end":151.911,"text":"我們去年3月就,今年3月就開始有提到這個嘛,你們也到苗栗縣政府過來。那實際上我們竹南有300公頃,還有投奔330公頃,還有厚隆的330公頃,那總面積是960公頃。我想請問一下,那目前的進度,這些會列入這個計畫裡面嗎?"},{"start":155.06,"end":167.39,"text":"跟委員報告一下,兩個點,第一個現在這個是在明年的預算,所以我們還在院的審議當中。第二點我補充說明一下,在這個計畫裡面對於土地的使用,我們當時有一個原則是滾動式的調整,如果在整個運作過程中,"},{"start":178.319,"end":178.859,"text":"好的 這個我們可以來研議另外"},{"start":207.096,"end":235.003,"text":"我想請教這個我們談到產業園區的部分那包含了土地變更的需求產業儲備用地要納入計畫裡才能按照國土的功能區分調整為城鄉發展區第二類之三及都市計畫農業區辦理變更產業園區這些都需要時間也需要中央跟地方配合才能撞到雙贏像這些沒有劃進去的話以後後續變更就會非常的麻煩"},{"start":236.107,"end":261.262,"text":"那近期我想國土計畫很多縣市出現了很多的聲音,我也接到很多陳情,尤其對於農業縣來說影響最大。這個部分黨派,很多民進黨的委員我想也一直為地方來發聲。尤其在苗栗縣,苗栗縣有水庫,本來開發就受到很多的限制了,現在又因為山坡地比例高很多,土地都會化成這個國土保育區。"},{"start":262.482,"end":284.938,"text":"舉例來說,我們濁南鎮、麗溪坪、大湖江麻園、休閒農業區本來就是鯉魚潭水庫周邊,飲用水的水源保護區裡面。那被劃進國土保育區之後,原有的舊有農地的資材室以後萬一被檢舉,他們要怎麼樣申請合法,可以申請合法嗎?"},{"start":287.445,"end":309.46,"text":"今天很多的委員都一直很關心國土計畫法的相關問題,我們答覆很多次,是不是請部長再重複一次。我跟委員報告,就是有關於被化為農一農二的部分,那如果從事農業的部分,那從事農業它相關的必要的附屬設施都還是根據現在的規定去做,並不會有任何的一個影響。"},{"start":310.541,"end":328.987,"text":"所以他不會受法就對了?就不會受法就對了?他是就地合法就對了?沒有,他是合法的就沒問題。合法的都沒問題。那不合法的本來就是不合法,現在的規定也會去做相關的懲處。不會因為國土計畫改變了以後,非法的就完全一夕之間變合法。"},{"start":331.223,"end":349.712,"text":"因為有些說實在他是在邊緣,那很多農民他真的非常的擔心,因為其實在水庫周邊的土地,他本身的使用就已經受限了。在苗栗有五個水庫,五個水庫供應全台灣對全台灣來講是非常重要的一個水資源。"},{"start":350.722,"end":364.116,"text":"當然已經規劃到苗栗縣因為地理位置的關係我們當然是願意來配合中央但是我也希望說中央在這方面能夠多為我們農民來設想讓我們的農民的權益不會受損這樣好不好"},{"start":364.858,"end":392.14,"text":"那也請委員能夠協助地方政府,請苗栗縣政府就全國一致的劃邊原則,盡快就苗栗縣內的...苗栗縣政府還沒報上來嘛,對不對?對,盡快的就苗栗縣裡面的土地的怎麼樣合理有效率的運用,那保障農民的權利的這個前提底下,盡快核定,然後報上我們一起來這個通盤的考量,再整理的處罰。另外我也接到產業界的陳情,就是說國土計畫土地使用管理規則裡面,"},{"start":393.301,"end":402.011,"text":"預告版第8條沒有納入擴廠機制,也就是說不能使用比林非都土地的擴廠,這違反這個產業創新條例第65條的規定,像這兩條的法就互相的抵觸了,要以哪個為主?"},{"start":411.843,"end":413.283,"text":"總量管制是誰限制的?"},{"start":432.688,"end":449.35,"text":"就是縣市政府這邊,縣府做一個空間規劃,然後要有一個區位的引導,然後再加上他有一個總量管制的一個前提之下,土地的主管機關就會去做一個針對他的一個報上來的這個計畫去做一個核定。"},{"start":450.331,"end":476.83,"text":"對因為這個如果是你說現在是只要讓縣市政府自己去決定不是他決定要有三個前提就是第一個他要有一個整體的空間規劃第二個部分他要有個區位的引導因為整個國土計畫裡面他容易到農務有不同的區位然後第三個部分他要有一個總量的一個管制那在符合這三個條件之下會送那個土地主管機關裡面然後我們會去因為我知道就是說經濟部這邊也表示過國土計畫"},{"start":478.251,"end":491.715,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":491.988,"end":492.328,"text":"請部長回去"},{"start":524.717,"end":538.188,"text":"主計處前兩天公布了一到四月的實質薪資的平均達到6.3萬元,你相信嗎?跟委員一樣,我們在初期看到這樣的數字"},{"start":540.06,"end":568.935,"text":"我們也認為應該有一個更合時的計算方式,但是傳統上他就用這樣的計算,我們如果能夠把它改成中位數的計算方式來講,那麼會讓達不到這些數字的人更有感說他是可以有努力改善自己。公布這個讓全國的人民聽到大家都很錯愕,因為尤其是網軍講了很多很好笑的說主計數是看到鬼,"},{"start":569.628,"end":593.379,"text":"是粉飾太平還是怎麼樣影響我覺得這樣子是影響我們機關的公信力那應該要更實質的來報導這樣的事情因為我們有查過有68%的民眾月薪不到5萬那47%的民眾月薪不到4萬所以我想說這個數字真的是差太多"},{"start":596.2,"end":619.666,"text":"這倒不是影響公信,它有它的依據只是它是用整體的平均數來算當然在平均數以下的很多的朋友們心裡的感受不好所以我們已經跟主席講過以後要在什麼樣研究上精進的來改善這樣公佈的方式跟內容讓所有的人看到覺得這個數字跟他是有感情是接近的"},{"start":620.106,"end":622.191,"text":"對阿,因為這個確實這樣講您這樣講就是非常好,希望主席處這邊主席總處這邊能夠回去"},{"start":627.711,"end":654.708,"text":"以後不要用這種方式因為這樣會讓人家覺得我們跟人民的這個距離非常的遙遠那很多網軍也調侃剛剛很多的話也有人說這是第四軍的這個薪水嗎像這些問題這些我認為是沒有必要發生的啦那我們講實際一點那當然能夠成長我們當然是非常的高興為我們的團隊做出來的成績非常的肯定那當然也不要用這些數字來粉飾太平這樣好不好"},{"start":655.421,"end":683.398,"text":"報告委員因為他每個行業不一樣比如說他平均薪資4月份的話他如果注射和餐飲業是3萬4、4千7那如果是水美容美髮業就是3萬5那製造業就是4萬4那所以我們這裡也有把各種行業對啦怎麼加都不到6萬3啊我現在就不要再解釋啦那個我都有看到啦因為再講下去就沒有意思了那我只是希望說以後我們"},{"start":684.278,"end":707.698,"text":"公布這些數據的時候希望能夠更貼近實際的狀況這樣好不好而且還前幾個月他是因為有包括獎金還有一些加班會在裡面所以就會金額偏高是這樣子好啦好謝謝好謝謝那我再請教處長我知道現在談到錢就傷感情了談到權力大家都快要翻臉了"},{"start":709.804,"end":716.748,"text":"國民黨最近在提修我們才化法我相信院長你也知道那您對這件事有什麼看法?"},{"start":718.561,"end":718.781,"text":"我們的賴清德總統在2012年"},{"start":747.268,"end":775.075,"text":"的賴市長的時候有提過2017年當賴院長的時候也有提過要修這個才化法你前幾天我有看了一下其他委員的質詢院長是說當時現在的時空背景不一樣對不對不僅如此你要看看當時為什麼推不下去一定是遭到了很多的困難應該是這樣講這個現象今天還是存在的對應該是這樣講不是說推不下去推得下去推不下去您認為有沒有需要改進"},{"start":776.015,"end":777.236,"text":"我知道你們都有在做,比如說很好像你們之前說的"},{"start":794.734,"end":809.32,"text":"我們長照服務、前瞻計畫、因應COVID-19等等的紓困的振興、國防的這些政策這幾年都有在做可是做完之後你有沒有覺得我們每年還超收3000億啊對不對3000億的錢扣還債1530億再補台電1000億還有剩600億啊"},{"start":816.983,"end":842.965,"text":"也就是說我們今天在修這個財政收支劃分法並不會影響到我們做這些剛剛我們講的長照的服務前瞻計畫的基礎建設等等這些都不太會影響部長跟你說明我覺得稅收的增加一方面是當時我們評估的比較保守但最重要的是大家人民的努力那這個要厚植國力我們必須讓國家的高度跟角色來看是不是請部長答覆一下部長講一下"},{"start":843.585,"end":872.448,"text":"跟委員說明我們的稅收是每一塊錢都是按照法律來收的那我們的實徵數如果超過預算數的話第一個我們會減少舉債像去年1732億就沒有借錢第二個我們會增加還債所以去年我們還了1260億那剩下的錢我們就會到累計到稅計剩餘那稅計剩餘其實就作為以後年度國家施政的一個需要這個是對財政的量能的累積以及財政的韌性是有必要這樣做的"},{"start":873.035,"end":892.56,"text":"那我請問一下您知道我們苗栗縣的財政狀況除了修財化法之外您覺得苗栗要怎麼樣才能夠幫助解決苗栗現在的困境苗栗縣的狀況是他的一個他的一個債限超過了目前的公債法所以這個部分其實苗栗縣政府也非常認真的在還債主計總署其實也有責任你不能說當年舉債舉超過了然後當然現在地方"},{"start":899.802,"end":914.431,"text":"後來的現場來背我覺得這也不公平了本來當時應該就要反應應該就要制止讓它發生這個當然是不好但這個過去的事情我們不想再提我們現在只是想說怎麼樣來解協助苗栗縣解決財政的困境"},{"start":916.943,"end":943.159,"text":"這個部分我先跟委員說明一下苗栗縣其實縣政府他也非常努力那其實他的一個債務的還債計畫一直符合行政院的一個規定同時呢在那個有關補助的部分其實主計總署對於苗栗縣的補助其實因為他的財政能力的關係所以他相對的補助的比例會比較高其實在我看來苗栗縣不是沒有能力賺錢跟還錢其實苗栗的創水能力"},{"start":943.812,"end":970.575,"text":"相比財政同級的縣市要高出很多但是因為我們統統分配款已經25年了25年沒有去修改這25年的變化很大讓其實你看從我們以前的2都現在到6都了現在從剩下6都在的16個縣市甚至台南高雄他們也支持這樣的一個財政收支劃分法的一個修改"},{"start":971.555,"end":995.495,"text":"我希望這樣講我們不希望看到這個朝野嚴重的對立就像現在在修這個才化法我們大家都知道我想院長這邊也應該非常清楚當然這個東西萬一現在大家院板都一直不提出來三讀到時候三讀之後是不是我想院長您會接受到時候的那個版本嗎是不是又要提視線"},{"start":997.978,"end":1019.04,"text":"我們當然是希望現在的裁判法我們再來做就現在的內容做檢討合理的討論都可以但是委員應該知道苗栗縣的財政在全國各縣市當中是比較特殊的所以中央在對苗栗的各種補助剛剛部長說過了額度都比較高而苗栗縣政府對一些公共建設的自籌的部分也相對的低"},{"start":1019.6,"end":1025.847,"text":"未來要是中央政府喪失了這樣財政能力,就沒有辦法再做合比的考量,就變成齊同式的,水平分配而已。"},{"start":1035.097,"end":1059.448,"text":"這是相對的嘛,他有錢他幹嘛跟你要勒?當然不是齊頭式啦,因為我這樣講,我希望院板的出來大家可以朝野可以協商。我不是說我們國民黨提出來的版本我們就是要照單全收。我希望院板的出來之後我們大家可以坐下來談,因為這是關乎於整個台灣的一個發展。"},{"start":1060.309,"end":1060.649,"text":"我目前在這個"},{"start":1078.396,"end":1081.118,"text":"這樣怎麼會正確呢?你把錢抓在手上,高興就給你,不高興就不給你。我們是看地方的需求跟急迫性。"},{"start":1103.184,"end":1126.954,"text":"我還是覺得為了台灣的安定因為馬上我認為財化法應該也是最近也會來煽毒那到時候又搞成又要復議又要釋憲那對我們整個府會的關係真的會越來越不好那我請這個院長三思好不好我們再做一個調整中央還是要有很強的財政的"},{"start":1127.534,"end":1137.483,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":1138.025,"end":1166.361,"text":"這個能力的應付,絕對是要把他考慮在內的。好啦,那我順著現在院長講的話,再想到一件事情,就是說前幾天我們的洪孟楷委員在這邊來問過院長,就NCC的市委委員的名單,請教您是否給予背書嗎?你有看過,當時您回答說要檢視名單嘛,現在已經過了兩個禮拜,您看過這份名單了沒有?我當然知道這個名單。您現在呢,這個是同意這份名單還是?"},{"start":1168.318,"end":1192.93,"text":"因為現在名單已經在大院裡面了。不是,如果你不同意你可以講啊,我們那個是可以換的。對不對?如果你覺得那不好,是不是要把名單調整過再送進來?因為他們現在停在那邊,不知道要不要審。我覺得應該照他的時間,那個大院可以在程序上立刻進行,對這些名單表示意見。你到底同不同意嗎?"},{"start":1193.919,"end":1218.179,"text":"因為他已經送進來,我現在就是用這樣的名單在院裡。其實他們在等你啊,他們問院長的,因為我們知道520才換嘛。那當然這是前院長陳院長的他的名單。那當然我們尊重新的院長,因為畢竟未來還是要配合的。那你今天如果有意見,其實他們都在等院長您的回覆。如果您認為有問題私下講嘛,那我們可以不要在這邊講啊。"},{"start":1219.718,"end":1220.118,"text":"你脫脫這個範圍可以啊。"},{"start":1240.191,"end":1268.889,"text":"好,再麻煩院長這個部分快一點那接下來還是民生的問題我想經濟部水利署正在研議自來水無自來水地區供水改善第五期的計畫那本期看到是近三年自來水普及率並沒有明顯的提升有兩個區呈現倒退的這個情形尤其苗栗縣的普及率仍然是全台倒數第四名院長您知道是什麼原因嗎"},{"start":1270.37,"end":1271.07,"text":"其實是這樣,我跟院長報告"},{"start":1296.704,"end":1307.447,"text":"我認為的我發現的主要原因就是自來水沿管工程的物價及施工的成本大幅的攀升這是其中一個原因但是我們政府這個核定的"},{"start":1307.978,"end":1333.422,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":1334.548,"end":1354.838,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":1355.157,"end":1382.958,"text":"行政院申請嚴管工程每戶批准這個上限要調高對吧我們現在是這樣子這個如果每戶超過60萬的這個比較高的這個費用那可以跟鄰近地區比較便宜的來做一個併用的方式那這個是不是世足以來解決目前的困難這當然還要再去仔細的去看看他執行的結果如何我知道水利署已經有向行政院建議了他好像要提高到80萬元一戶"},{"start":1385.071,"end":1411.307,"text":"希望院長能夠幫忙,原住民地區能夠到100萬,其實像苗栗縣,其實苗栗縣有5個水庫,周邊的很多居民,水庫旁邊竟然沒有自來水,你知道這種情形嗎?就是因為他卡在這個60萬元的限制之內,他們根本沒有辦法去達成他們想要的這個水資源,而且水庫就在他家旁邊,這是多麼諷刺。"},{"start":1413.378,"end":1436.757,"text":"應該經濟部來跟水利署研究怎麼樣對人民最有利的方式我們來共同來討論請院長多多幫忙好不好盡量讓這個普及率能夠提升另外還有我想臺灣最近冒出上百座的垃圾山這個科技島淪為垃圾島"},{"start":1439.494,"end":1448.987,"text":"過去臺灣是全球垃圾處理與回收的領導的國家但近年來家庭垃圾及事業廢棄物大幅的成長去年有高達171.5萬"},{"start":1452.551,"end":1469.667,"text":"﹚議員﹚"},{"start":1470.168,"end":1491.468,"text":"那全臺灣冒出100多座暫存的這個垃圾山光是去年一年的暫存量就達到了84萬公噸我們部長有講過希望垃圾零成長的前提下去做去化但是做去化就要12年以這樣算的話以現在的量來算的話是12年那如果沒有擴大處理我們臺灣勢必會成為垃圾島那院長請問一下"},{"start":1494.33,"end":1503.136,"text":"我們政府大力推動整改及新設垃圾處理設施什麼時候像這樣的速度什麼時候可以把它打平"},{"start":1504.322,"end":1523.784,"text":"報告委員我們環境部彭部長很重視這個問題所以日前我也特別請他來就這個垃圾垃圾堆積的這個現象希望他提出一個進程中程可以解決的方式那部長有他很精密的計算跟他工程的計畫是不是容許部長來向委員說明"},{"start":1524.905,"end":1541.567,"text":"報告委員其實第一個垃圾要零成長資源回收是最主要的降低這個垃圾量是最主要的觀念但是我們現在過去因為整改大概有84萬噸沒錯那其中大概有70多萬噸是裸露的那全台灣沒有百月大概只有"},{"start":1542.108,"end":1545.769,"text":"那你有地方了嗎?有地方可以掩埋了嗎?"},{"start":1561.793,"end":1585.098,"text":"目前來看的話因為我們的掩埋場大概還要花5、6我們的焚化爐要5、6年才會正式的上來因為現在的量真的不夠因為焚化廠已經老了所以大概還要如果真的要把所有的垃圾清掉真的還要再幾年的時間但是我們先解決露天的掩埋的部分但是我們好像不能等吧以現在的垃圾量不光是垃圾還有失業廢棄物等等這些都沒地方去啊"},{"start":1585.598,"end":1586.239,"text":"我覺得這樣,我在這邊建議"},{"start":1608.596,"end":1636.056,"text":"就是說其實大家都知道垃圾要處理但是就不要在我家旁邊設這是目前最困難的問題所以我希望中央能夠來極力的主導要求各縣市政府來配合我覺得從上到下會比較好因為如果縣市政府要做的時候可能會面臨你也知道一般的民眾的抗爭什麼這個部分確實是影響了我們現在垃圾處理的量"},{"start":1637.073,"end":1644.517,"text":"我希望說各縣市自己能夠處理自己的垃圾量尤其在新興的這些產業園區或者是這些科學園區等等在設置的時候是不是也一併規劃處理廠在裡面對這個是我們現在規劃的方向我覺得從這個角度來進去這樣子對整個事情的"},{"start":1665.606,"end":1669.628,"text":"謝謝委員其實現在的依照地方自治法垃圾是屬於地方自治的項目但是我們中央會全力的來協助地方我們一個縣市一個縣市會跟我們縣市首長來談這個問題會幫助他們"},{"start":1693.909,"end":1712.098,"text":"謝謝委員很贊成委員的講法如果地方政府都有能力基本處理垃圾會解決很大很大的問題那中央彭博長現在提的就是對53處垃圾漏落的堆積漏落的這個部分八十四萬噸他逐年他剛剛說四年我日前還要求說早一天完成"},{"start":1712.698,"end":1739.745,"text":"就讓我們可以避免自身其他的問題,所以應該把時程往前拉。其實各縣市政府,我想大部分應該都是比較支持的。報告委員,很多的縣市政府是要AI這個資料中心,不要垃圾焚化爐。那你的,所以我講啊,自己的垃圾自己處理啊。對,我們現在會鼓勵他。這個本來就應該要這樣子啊。你不能說把不好的往外推,好的要留下來,哪有這種事情,對不對?"},{"start":1740.775,"end":1767.452,"text":"希望就是中央您有一套健全的一個做法讓地方政府好配合嗎?好不好?好,謝謝委員那最後一個我想問一下就是我們在這個我在委員會我有問有提過幾次就是麻醉藥品依託民意值遭到濫用然後做成電子菸這個部分呢我們也質詢了許多次那當然也感謝我們衛福部跟這個"},{"start":1769.168,"end":1793.064,"text":"實要署這邊有來盡快的規劃,已經把伊托米子列為三級的毒品。謝謝,我們也肯定大家的積極性。不過我們面臨新興毒品,財難的年齡一直往下降。那毒品審議的進度趕不上毒品變化的速度。我想院長您對這個有沒有什麼想法?"},{"start":1793.84,"end":1822.41,"text":"對的,陳副委員所說的現在任何犯罪的集團跟手法還有毒品都朝向迅速的多樣化那政府機關應該要趕上這個腳步所以這個審議的過程應該要吸取更多目前在危害社會危害青少年的這樣太陽緊速的來因應才能夠保護大家的安全對,因為你真的現在他們就是說我們當列一個毒品我們把它列為三級之後他們又換一個名稱換一個包裝"},{"start":1823.11,"end":1825.611,"text":"謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢,也謝謝卓院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第39號黃捷委員質詢"}]}}}}