{"id":154049,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154049","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5066363fcb0c0185039242207f153aa95b353bd3059915546a63521c4604b1fc86e46e02d761d5dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"16:35:11 - 17:05:27","影片長度":"00:30:16","會議時間":"2024-06-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第18次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-14","start_time":"2024-06-14T16:35:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-14T17:05:27+08:00","duration":1816,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議","id":"院會-11-1-18","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（16時34分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：院長好。院長，我想請教一下，因為我們的財劃法已經25年都沒有修正了，其實地方首長大家都叫苦連天，尤其是現在中央跟地方的權限也有很大的改變，以前在精省前，中央跟地方的財政比例大概是6比4，現在大概是7.5比2.5，所以為了因應中央跟地方功能的改變，其實應該同步調整中央跟地方的財政分配，才能達到財政公平，而且能夠真正實施地方自治的理想。我想請問一下院長，您認為財劃法修正是財政問題，還是政治問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：它一直是一個財政的問題，但是它牽扯到政治很多的角力，所以我常常說，垂直分配與水平分配這確實是一個難題，否則不可能推動好幾次到最後都停下來，就是因為在分配上，大家對於自己應該得到的這些財政資助，每個縣市計算的方式是不同的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長認為，既是財政問題，也是政治問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該是財政問題，它背後有政治的因素。"],["許委員宇甄：到底是財政問題還是政治問題，等等給你答案。在2012年的時候，當時的賴清德市長，他曾經講過升格五都之後，其實很多人口都往中北部去發展，升格之後，很多的問題是升格只做一半，而且相關的配套法案，包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同通過。當時賴清德市長，也就是我們現在的賴總統，就跟當時的行政院長陳冲說，一定要拿出非過不可的決心。還有包括在2012年，當時民進黨主席蘇貞昌也說，縣市長在編列預算的時候，事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷待哺的孩子，可是米缸卻是空的，甚至他說他在編預算的時候，常常半夜都睡不著覺，醒來是冒冷汗，我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的心聲。在2017年12月的時候，當時的行政院長，也就是我們現在的賴總統，他開記者會說，他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案，但是6年過去了，到目前都還沒有處理。由剛剛我講的這些來看的話，其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。請問院長，現在賴清德總統已經當選了，他過去主張修訂財劃法，請問賴清德總統主張的是芭樂票還是竹竿票？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員說明，過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡，我們都記得，但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去？無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去，就是因為剛剛說的，在分配上，每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算，所以造成到最後都是停下來，歷次都是這個樣子，所以我們今天要回頭看的是，為什麼會產生這樣的困難及各縣市的不同，但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款來幫助地方，達到衡平地方初步的目的。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，你剛剛有提到垂直分配跟水平分配的關係，所以沒有辦法一直達到財劃法修正的目標，我跟您講一下，目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本，這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財劃法修正草案，您可以看一下我們這個財劃法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分，就增加的比例來說，縣市增最多的有宜蘭縣、新竹縣、基隆市、彰化縣、金馬、嘉義縣市，還有屏東縣都是增加三倍以上，而苗栗縣、澎湖縣跟南投縣增加2.5倍以上，雲林縣、花東增加兩倍以上，新竹市也有1.5倍，六都中新北增加1.3倍，臺北增加0.6倍，臺南跟高雄在六都中的增幅是居於中間，並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距，六都的比例也從61.76%降到49%，可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距，也解決了您剛剛所提到的有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題，所以我想請教一下院長，我們可以看到國民黨版的財劃法修正有三大重點，第一個是公平，讓各縣市政府都能夠獲得最妥善的預算。第二個是直接有效，可以照顧全國2,350萬人民。第三個可以讓整體施政和國家發展都能夠逐步向前，國民黨的版本我們看到的只有地方之福，請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版的話，是不是可以共同支持國民黨的版本，讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時的支票，與達成民進黨擔任在野黨時的理想，院長，您覺得呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，委員，現在的財劃法精神就是朝向公平、有效和促進地方發展的原則去做，已經相當多年了，但是貴黨所提出的這個版本，我看起來是本來已經多的還會更多，本來已經少的也不見得再多，臺北、新北就是很多。"],["許委員宇甄：沒有喔！我剛剛已經講了……"],["卓院長榮泰：除了比例之外，它的數目、金額是很大的……"],["許委員宇甄：六都本來是61.76%，現在降到49%，也就是六都其實很願意讓利給其他缺乏財政的縣市，所以目前國民黨版的版本大概是這樣。如果院長對修訂後的分配數有疑義的話，請問行政院什麼時候可以提出對案的版本進行討論？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛跟委員報告過，現在的現行版本、規定、辦法就是朝向您現在說的更公平、更有效而且促進地方發展，我們是用一般補助款、統籌分配稅款和計劃型補助來衡平地方發展，這已經行之多年。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，如果現在75%在中央是你覺得最好的方法，這樣的話，各縣市原則上不會提出這些問題，所以院長，我覺得我們其實要面對、正視。"],["卓院長榮泰：也不能否認前瞻基礎建設、長照、公建及很多社會福利，中央其實補助地方非常非常多。"],["許委員宇甄：但是很多都是中央開支票、地方買單的也很多。"],["卓院長榮泰：受惠的是人民。"],["許委員宇甄：所以這個部分我覺得可能影響到我們還要看看現在院長是誰，要受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助，有的地方可能就是嗷嗷待哺，真的是米缸空了，卻沒有辦法得到相對的補助。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們相信臺灣是一個法制國家，我們希望大家都能夠看到這一點。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得有一定的公式和標準的話，應該比較能夠有公平、有效的財富分配方式，當然，如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話，國民黨黨團的版本通過之後，請問行政院會不會提覆議？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是假設性的問題，我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方、照顧到人民，中央不會站在中央為利益的考量上作為任何的出發點，這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話。"],["許委員宇甄：其實已經溝通那麼多年，大部分的縣市都覺得地方財源是不夠的，這表示財劃法的修正回到精省前的六比四是有非常大的空間，請院長要好好的跟財政部協調出一套最好的方式。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明一下目前的情況。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：我現在不用部長說明，謝謝，因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了。我再請院長看一下，現在有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常嚴重，包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東，請教院長，你知道農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於農業縣人口的流失，經濟的多面向發展，還有人口老化問題都是一個原因、因素。"],["許委員宇甄：其實農業縣會有這樣的問題，主要是因為它的財政收入不足，很多青壯人口在地方上沒有得到更好的發展和工作機會，所以他當然會想要到外縣市，甚至到六都去，如果要改善農業縣人口外移的情況，其實我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的。","另外，我再請教一下院長，要就教幾個國土計畫法上路之後所衍生的問題，在104年12月國土計畫法立法通過之後，為了確保國人的糧食安全，政府也規劃全國宜維護農地的面積大概是81萬公頃，這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎，更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障，這些農地因為不能夠隨意變更，所以影響農民的權益也甚鉅，加上受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理補償，連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展，恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口加速外流，剛剛提到已經外流非常嚴重、外漂非常嚴重。因為國土計畫法對農業的衝擊很大，現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分提出很多現在的問題，希望能夠來改善，為了讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備，也讓這些縣市可以有充分跟農民溝通的機會。請問一下院長，我們的國土計畫法是不是能夠展延兩年，讓這個計畫能夠推動地更為順利，不會引起民怨？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在正在國土計畫法的程序當中，預計明年要上路，在今年6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫，以目前來看，只有三個縣市。"],["許委員宇甄：三個，對。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們經過跟各縣市一一地詢問之後，剛剛內政部劉部長已經說過了，她所掌握的……"],["許委員宇甄：有四個縣市，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：可能會有四個縣市沒有辦法報上來。"],["許委員宇甄：那是不是可以請問一下劉部長，是哪……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果到那個時候，我們再來做考量，怎麼樣讓大家齊步地向前走。"],["許委員宇甄：所以表示院長覺得展延是有空間的，因為還要聽聽各縣市的意見嘛！請問一下部長，有哪四個縣市現在是會有問題，其他的都沒有問題嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：包括您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的，但是我也要跟委員報告，我們到目前為止，辦了44場說明會，雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況，我們也願意協助它，希望也是在6月底之前，可以把國土功能分區計畫表送到內政部做審查。"],["許委員宇甄：我想雲林縣政府，誠如您剛剛講的，就是有很多窒礙難行的問題沒有辦法解決，也沒有辦法讓農民理解國土計畫法對他們造成的損失，跟未來是不是能對他們有所補償，所以一直沒有辦法做有效溝通。您可以看一下，現在這個國土計畫法的……"],["劉部長世芳：就我知道的，農民的權益並沒有改變。"],["許委員宇甄：您可以看一下，現在雲林縣在之前提報的農一大概是6萬839公頃，占全國比例最高；農一加農二是8萬7,480公頃，加起來也是全國最高。但是您可以看到雲林縣並不是農地面積最高的縣市，最高的應該是屏東縣，第二高的是臺南市，為什麼大部分的縣市為了發展地方，會儘量保留自己的彈性，而目前申報最多的是雲林縣，當然這八萬多公頃，將來土地只能從事農業工作，可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展。所以院長，在這一次我們看到農一、農二的劃設標準並不一致，現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本，把台糖地跟公有地劃為農一，私有地劃為農二，這樣雲林縣的農業面積就可以從6萬0,839公頃減為5,836公頃，這樣跟屏東縣的劃設標準一致，請問院長跟部長支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我今天答復很多委員的垂詢，這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的，不會獨厚哪一個縣市，但執行劃分細部的部分，請部長來說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我想跟委員報告，我們在農一到農五本身劃設的原則是全國一致性的，但是同樣的，縣市政府也會根據當地發展跟規劃做一些調整，在每一次縣市國土審議委員會，農業部都會派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。以目前來講，所有的國土規劃都是原來的法定農地，已經劃為農一、農二的部分，對農民而言，只要你從事農業是完全沒有影響，而且會有更多後續的農業資源投入。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，剛剛我請教的是，既然全國的標準應該是一致的，所以雲林縣是不是可以比照屏東縣的方式，重新調整農一、農二？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說過了，有全國一致性的標準，但是各縣市政府會參照他們相關的產業需求，我們也會提供專業意見……"],["許委員宇甄：我們雲林縣原則上就是可以來做一些調整，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會提供專業意見，如果它劃設的比例，我舉個例子，像雲林縣也有一些劃為國保的部分，我們會……"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分是不是事後請部長可以把相關的資料給我，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會來協助。"],["許委員宇甄：我另外再請教一下院長，在2017年屏東縣長潘孟安表示，四十多年前的區域計畫法實施的時候，屏東被劃定為農業區，從此判了屏東死刑，這對屏東來說很不公平，潘孟安也不滿地說新北市的農地只有6,000公頃，屏東卻超過8萬公頃，憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉，新北市的土地就能被充分利用，完全不公平！我想以這個邏輯來說，對雲林縣來說，可能更為不公平，所以在國土計畫法實施之後，農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲？這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損，影響農業縣市的發展？所以從明年開始，是不是可以把農林漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準，並制定補償農業縣市的方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，各縣市尤其是農業用地，雖然有各個縣市不同的特色或區域性的條件，但是我是認為，地方首長如果用心就能夠把地方帶到農業再生、地方創新的這個程度裡面來，我覺得潘縣長在這裡也許是成為一個模範，他自己努力的成果，值得大家來學習。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，我給您看幾個數據，您就可以知道為什麼沒辦法說因為縣市長用不用心，您可以看一下從業人口，我們可以看到，以農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異，臺灣的平均是一年94萬，雲林縣只有67萬，低於平均的27萬，跟臺北市的落差更高達58.3萬，所以這個部分的話，我們就看到農業縣的收入偏低，所以對於農民而言，很多都會想說我在地方上討不到生活、沒有工作機會，我會移到六都，所以國土計畫法實施之後，對於農民來說事實上更加不公平。另外院長，我再給您看另外一個數據，您剛剛有提到的，不管是做什麼農業發展等等的，您可以看一下，竹科只有1,375公頃，就創造了1兆4,000億的產值，而雲林縣的8萬8,000公頃只能創造850億元的產值，由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差。所以院長，農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農一優良農地，但投入什麼資源、金額跟方式都沒有說清楚。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，未來針對農一、農二及農業的資源，第一個就是我們會以彰顯農民保護農地，確保我們糧食安全的角度，所以我們會對於環境的對地綠色給付的部分，然後用堆疊制的方式，包括生態給付，包括種植的時候對環境友善的部分也會提高……"],["許委員宇甄：這些我想都要充分地讓農民瞭解，他們才能夠針對國土計畫法實施之後，能夠給予更多的協助……"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們會加強宣導。"],["許委員宇甄：讓他們更加瞭解。當然我想您可以再看一下，請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：農地？"],["許委員宇甄：對，一公頃大概多少錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：各個地方應該不一樣吧？"],["許委員宇甄：對，但平均來說。"],["卓院長榮泰：平均來講……"],["許委員宇甄：我告訴院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：3到50萬應該有吧？"],["許委員宇甄：平均一公頃的農地大概是1,500萬，但是事實上很多就像你剛剛講的，越北部的農地面積可能就更高，我有做了一個試算，現在我們看到的是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬5,936元，這是農地，如果你種稻的話。但你們看一下下一張，如果您是把原來的農地賣掉，因為地方的不同，如果是一公頃1,500萬的話，你把它拿去買臺灣10年的公債跟美國10年的公債，大概可以是24萬到66萬，當然如果你的農地是8,000萬的話，那就是更多。所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說，如果你是農民的話，你會選擇要種水稻，還是乾脆賣地買公債呢？針對這個部分，為了照顧因政策受損的農民，行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的農地給予對地補償？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經在做了……"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在在做的就是對地給付的部分……"],["許委員宇甄：OK，那是不是可以再把相關的資料給本席？"],["陳部長駿季：對地給付的部分，在從事農業的部分，我們會有個堆疊式的……"],["許委員宇甄：好，如果已經在做的話，我想是金額的問題，因為現在的對地補償我聽好像只有1萬，相對地很低。"],["陳部長駿季：一年1萬，對。"],["許委員宇甄：相對地很低，希望能夠提高對地補償。另外再請教一下院長，我們現在可以看到，全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口占比超過20%，依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東，我們可以看到現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同，所以對老人福利也有很多不一樣的照顧，目前有65歲以上老人健保補助的，大概除了六都之外，只有幾個財政比較好的縣市，還有12個縣市沒有補助，因為現在的財劃法還沒修訂，所以農業縣的自主財源不足，請問院長，我們是不是能由中央統一辦理老人健保的補助？請問院長是否同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們現在對中低收入、70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家都有一些補助，但是如果全面用這樣的標準來看，則必須考慮到政府的財政負擔。"],["許委員宇甄：這幾年其實政府都超徵幾千億，老人健保的部分大概幾百億，我覺得對於老人的照顧真的非常重要，希望不要同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命。","另外，再請教院長有關電力的問題，我們現在的核電，今年7月核三的1號機就要停止運轉了，明年5月核三的2號機也會停轉，大家很擔心缺失的6到7%電力到底要用什麼電力來補足，之前部長本來有提過核能也是一個選項，但現在因為時空背景不同，所以又改變了，雖然只有短短的一個禮拜，但時空背景就相對不同了，現在大家都很疑慮，到底要用什麼電力來補足？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，在時空背景下，但是我沒有改變，可能是我之前的報告不夠精準，不過我跟委員在這裡再報告一次，我們的電是夠的。"],["許委員宇甄：怎麼夠？您的配比、總電量跟能源配比，目前的狀況如何？"],["郭部長智輝：我們從2023年到2030年為止，大概會下來700萬千瓦，但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電，所以這些基載的電是夠的，我們大概餘額210萬千瓦，如果我們做一些比較寬裕的假設，同時有三個機組降下來的話……"],["許委員宇甄：因為我們現在很多能源燃料99%都是靠進口，如果我們從海上進口，因為天候的關係，又可能像之前大陸軍演的關係，也沒辦法進到國內來，這樣就可能造成缺電的問題，所以這部分的能源配比是不是應該更多元化，也可以設法減少對進口的依賴？院長是不是同意？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，我們現在這部分有綠電，我們用風電跟光電以及儲電來彌補，另外一方面，我們也要從現在開始大力推廣節能減碳的ESCO方法。"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，今年的電力夠用嗎？因為我知道你們風電跟光電的發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標。"],["郭部長智輝：所以那只是一個備載的部分，我們基載的部分還是一樣，我剛才跟您報告過了，我們大概這四年會上來910萬千瓦的電，它是夠的，我們也根據市場上的調查，包括現在AI可能會使用的……"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛講到AI，因為現在各縣市都在爭取AI產業到臺灣來投資，可是如果以現在這樣來看的話，核能除役之後，對於爭取AI產業到臺灣，你們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：我們的估計是這樣，過去我們大概用成長1.8%計算，我們因為AI而把它調到大概2.92%的成長方式，所以我們的估計應該是精準的。"],["許委員宇甄：這部分我知道部長很有信心，但是外界不管是國外、國內，甚至是黃仁勳執行長其實都有這樣的疑慮，所以希望政府要拿出方法，讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的、我們真正能夠發展AI產業，否則的話，錯誤的能源政策沒辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩。接下來我要請教……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，沒有錯誤的能源政策，我們是多元的能源政策，而且我們現在啟動第二次的能源轉型。"],["許委員宇甄：如果是多元的能源政策，是不是也可以把非核家園這個限制臺灣能源多元性的鐵籠拔除？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在就是發展多元的綠能，而且讓所有新的機組能夠上來發電。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝部長。接下來我要請教院長的是社會住宅的問題，我們可以看到賴清德總統他在競選的時候，有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶，但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，您看一下，現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶，包租代管25萬戶及租金補貼50萬戶，這樣子的戶數是對的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們努力的目標。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那您可以看得到租金補貼的部分，其實內政部到113年5月15號止就已經核定了52萬2,660戶了，也就是說其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了，那是不是代表租金補貼的50萬戶，其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI達標了，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有討論過，請部長來說明。"],["劉部長世芳：我想委員講的沒有錯，因為租金補貼是比較快速，跟所謂直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣，所以確實是達到52萬戶以上。"],["許委員宇甄：那就是說其實這個政策訂定等於是前任就完成了，並不是現在才完成嘛！也不是你們努力的目標嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：因為全部社宅及租屋政策是一個package。"],["許委員宇甄：再看一下您剛剛的社宅部分，您可以看到這個統計表，我們現在看到的這是蔡政府時代的，您剛剛的25萬社宅，12萬戶是蔡政府的，13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成，對不對？可是事實上到現在，蔡政府任內還有2萬4,509戶是在規劃中的，部長，是嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我不曉得你講的是哪個item，但是……"],["許委員宇甄：就是在規劃中的有2萬4,509戶。"],["劉部長世芳：對，我們的估計是到年底之前，儘量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。"],["許委員宇甄：那就是原來的這12萬戶……"],["劉部長世芳：因為我想……"],["許委員宇甄：以25萬戶來講，另外還有13萬戶的話，你們要在7年內要達到，這樣有辦法做到嗎？因為過去的8年其實也只完成大概不到10萬戶嘛！未來有可能再完成這麼多戶數嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝許委員的關心，我們未來會改採取多元的取得土地，尤其是國、公有土地，然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作，看它是不是也願意投入興建，用這樣多元方向的話，在短時間內，也不是短時間，7年之內完成連同蔡政府總統期間在內的話，大概總共25萬戶還是我們的目標。"],["許委員宇甄：以目前看來的話，要達到這樣的目標，其實相當的不容易。所以是不是……"],["劉部長世芳：我們現在的目標就是希望直轄市、縣市政府跟中央是一半、一半……"],["許委員宇甄：因為可能現在也都是把前任的計算基礎納進來，真正是不是能夠達到，而且現在訂定的目標看起來是蠻高的，這個部分真的要請部長要好好的用心……"],["劉部長世芳：我們會努力，謝謝你！"],["許委員宇甄：不要讓社宅跳票。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們很珍惜過去8年所累積的經驗，會讓我們在這個基礎上知道該往哪個方向去走，剛剛部長所說，用更多元的資金的尋求，公部門、私部門，以及盤點整個……"],["許委員宇甄：因為我們是不希望說講得很響亮啦……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會朝向這個目標……"],["許委員宇甄：就是百萬的租屋，結果……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經有過去的經驗……"],["許委員宇甄：現在事實上我們看到的，要嘛就是已經做到的，然後要嘛就是還遠遠落後的，我們希望這部分還是能夠好好地來處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會累積過去8年的經驗，讓我們繼續在這個基礎上往前走。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝院長。另外還要再請教您有關NFT的部分，我們之前在內政委員會審查詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案的時候，本席有提到周杰倫的「無聊猿」NFT，因為詐騙被騙了千萬，這樣NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮，但是我們從詐犯條例裡面看來並沒有規範到這一塊，當時我就問行政院打詐辦公室是由哪一個主管機關來負責的，打詐辦公室回復是無人可管，請問一下院長，到底NFT的主管機關是誰？"],["卓院長榮泰：新型的、多樣化的這種金融行為，我們請金管會主委回答。"],["許委員宇甄：所以是金管會當主管機關嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，報告委員，這件事情在前幾天由林政務委員負責這個案子的協調，過去行政院就已經指定具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。"],["許委員宇甄：好，NFT如果是屬於金管會的話，因為到目前為止都還沒有專責機構，院長是不是能夠指定金管會當主管機關？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經是金管會主管了。"],["許委員宇甄：好，我們就把它放進打詐專法來規範，不要讓大家覺得NFT是可以用詐騙的方式來進行，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，委員，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第43位吳宗憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","張雅琳","邱鎮軍","黃捷","廖先翔","陳冠廷","許宇甄","吳宗憲"],"page_start":29,"meetingDate":["2024-06-14"],"gazette_id":"1135701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135701_00002","1135701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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\"農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 727.425, \"end\": 727.605, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 727.605, \"end\": 728.025, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 728.025, \"end\": 728.385, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 728.385, \"end\": 729.926, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 729.926, \"end\": 730.646, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 730.646, \"end\": 730.886, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 730.886, \"end\": 731.106, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 731.106, \"end\": 731.266, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 731.266, \"end\": 731.466, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": 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735.588, \"end\": 735.728, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 735.728, \"end\": 736.248, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 736.248, \"end\": 736.408, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 736.408, \"end\": 736.908, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 736.908, \"end\": 737.208, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 737.208, \"end\": 737.508, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 737.508, \"end\": 738.788, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 738.788, \"end\": 739.209, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 739.209, \"end\": 739.389, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 739.389, \"end\": 739.569, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 739.569, \"end\": 739.969, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 739.969, \"end\": 740.149, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"屏\", \"start\": 740.149, \"end\": 741.789, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 741.789, \"end\": 741.929, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 741.929, \"end\": 742.049, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 742.049, \"end\": 742.189, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 742.189, \"end\": 742.35, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 742.35, \"end\": 742.51, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 742.51, \"end\": 742.77, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 742.77, \"end\": 743.15, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 743.15, \"end\": 743.81, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 743.81, \"end\": 744.33, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 744.33, \"end\": 746.251, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 746.251, \"end\": 746.391, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 746.391, \"end\": 746.411, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 746.411, \"end\": 746.591, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 746.591, \"end\": 746.791, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 746.791, \"end\": 746.891, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 746.891, \"end\": 747.351, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 747.351, \"end\": 747.651, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 747.651, \"end\": 747.911, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 747.911, \"end\": 748.291, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 748.291, \"end\": 748.491, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 748.491, \"end\": 748.711, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 748.711, \"end\": 749.212, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 749.212, \"end\": 749.432, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 749.432, \"end\": 749.592, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 749.592, \"end\": 749.812, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 749.812, \"end\": 749.912, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 749.912, \"end\": 749.992, \"score\": 0.474}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 749.992, \"end\": 750.452, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"壇\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 750.452, \"end\": 750.992, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 750.992, \"end\": 751.132, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 751.132, \"end\": 751.332, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 751.332, \"end\": 751.592, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 751.592, \"end\": 751.992, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 751.992, \"end\": 752.172, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 752.172, \"end\": 752.312, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 752.312, \"end\": 752.493, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 752.493, \"end\": 753.053, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"雲\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 753.053, \"end\": 753.073, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}]}, {\"start\": 754.333, \"end\": 774.099, \"text\": \"當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 754.333, \"end\": 755.493, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 755.493, \"end\": 755.653, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 755.653, \"end\": 756.014, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 756.014, \"end\": 756.574, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 756.574, \"end\": 756.734, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 756.734, \"end\": 756.874, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 756.874, \"end\": 756.974, 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{\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 768.237, \"end\": 768.597, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"屏\", \"start\": 768.597, \"end\": 769.117, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 769.117, \"end\": 769.257, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 769.257, \"end\": 769.517, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 769.517, \"end\": 769.958, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 769.958, \"end\": 770.398, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 770.398, \"end\": 770.618, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"塘\", \"start\": 770.618, \"end\": 770.858, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 770.858, \"end\": 771.078, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 771.078, \"end\": 771.378, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 771.378, \"end\": 771.618, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 771.618, \"end\": 771.858, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 771.858, \"end\": 772.358, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 772.358, \"end\": 773.058, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 773.058, \"end\": 773.519, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 773.519, \"end\": 773.679, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 773.679, \"end\": 773.879, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 773.879, \"end\": 774.059, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 774.059, \"end\": 774.079, \"score\": 0.24}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 774.079, \"end\": 774.099, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 775.199, \"end\": 799.441, \"text\": \"那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 775.199, \"end\": 775.639, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"雲\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 775.639, \"end\": 776.0, 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\"我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1036.724, \"end\": 1036.884, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1036.884, \"end\": 1037.044, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1037.044, \"end\": 1037.405, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1037.405, \"end\": 1037.745, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1037.745, \"end\": 1037.885, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1037.885, \"end\": 1038.345, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 1038.345, \"end\": 1039.546, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1039.546, \"end\": 1039.746, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 1039.746, \"end\": 1039.886, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 1039.886, \"end\": 1040.106, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 1040.106, \"end\": 1040.226, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1040.226, \"end\": 1040.427, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1040.427, \"end\": 1040.567, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1040.567, \"end\": 1040.727, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1040.727, \"end\": 1041.828, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1041.828, \"end\": 1042.508, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1042.508, \"end\": 1042.628, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1042.628, \"end\": 1044.429, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"彰\"}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1044.429, \"end\": 1044.77, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1044.77, \"end\": 1045.43, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1045.43, \"end\": 1046.151, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": 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\"會\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 1049.153, \"end\": 1049.393, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 1049.393, \"end\": 1049.993, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1049.993, \"end\": 1050.153, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 1050.153, \"end\": 1050.554, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 1050.554, \"end\": 1050.914, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1050.914, \"end\": 1051.054, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1051.054, \"end\": 1051.194, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1051.194, \"end\": 1051.314, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 1051.314, \"end\": 1051.454, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1051.454, \"end\": 1051.554, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1051.554, \"end\": 1051.835, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"堆\", \"start\": 1051.835, \"end\": 1052.215, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"疊\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 1052.215, \"end\": 1052.335, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1052.335, \"end\": 1052.475, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1052.475, \"end\": 1052.655, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 1052.655, \"end\": 1052.815, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 1052.815, \"end\": 1052.955, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 1052.955, \"end\": 1053.075, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1053.075, \"end\": 1053.216, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1053.216, \"end\": 1053.336, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 1053.336, \"end\": 1053.896, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"付\", \"start\": 1053.896, \"end\": 1054.396, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 1054.396, \"end\": 1054.557, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 1054.557, \"end\": 1054.697, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1054.697, \"end\": 1055.317, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"植\", \"start\": 1055.317, \"end\": 1055.517, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1055.517, \"end\": 1055.757, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 1055.757, \"end\": 1055.917, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"友\", \"start\": 1055.917, \"end\": 1056.118, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 1056.118, \"end\": 1056.138, \"score\": 0.773}]}, {\"start\": 1058.258, \"end\": 1081.383, \"text\": \"這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 1058.258, \"end\": 1058.478, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1058.478, \"end\": 1058.758, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1058.758, \"end\": 1058.838, \"score\": 0.748}, 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{\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1062.999, \"end\": 1063.539, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 1063.539, \"end\": 1063.759, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1063.759, \"end\": 1063.999, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1063.999, \"end\": 1064.479, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1064.479, \"end\": 1065.02, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 1065.02, \"end\": 1065.22, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 1065.22, \"end\": 1065.4, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1065.4, \"end\": 1065.58, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1065.58, \"end\": 1066.26, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 1066.26, \"end\": 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0.99}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 1077.302, \"end\": 1077.702, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1077.702, \"end\": 1077.842, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 1077.842, \"end\": 1077.942, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1077.942, \"end\": 1078.042, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 1078.042, \"end\": 1079.322, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 1079.322, \"end\": 1079.602, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1079.602, \"end\": 1079.762, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1079.762, \"end\": 1080.142, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1080.142, \"end\": 1080.322, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1080.322, \"end\": 1080.602, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 1080.602, \"end\": 1080.962, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1080.962, \"end\": 1081.123, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 1081.123, \"end\": 1081.363, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 1081.363, \"end\": 1081.383, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 1086.076, \"end\": 1106.194, \"text\": \"三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1086.076, \"end\": 1086.296, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1086.296, \"end\": 1086.497, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 1086.497, \"end\": 1086.637, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 1086.637, \"end\": 1087.277, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1087.277, \"end\": 1087.658, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 1087.658, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"卡\", \"start\": 1249.675, \"end\": 1249.915, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1249.915, \"end\": 1250.036, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1250.036, \"end\": 1250.256, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 1250.256, \"end\": 1250.276, \"score\": 0.682}]}, {\"start\": 1251.597, \"end\": 1273.652, \"text\": \"另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 1251.597, \"end\": 1251.757, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1251.757, \"end\": 1251.977, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 1251.977, \"end\": 1252.577, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 1252.577, \"end\": 1252.757, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1252.757, \"end\": 1252.837, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1252.837, \"end\": 1253.478, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1253.478, 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1274.993, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1274.993, \"end\": 1275.013, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1275.013, \"end\": 1275.033, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 1275.033, \"end\": 1275.053, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1275.053, \"end\": 1275.153, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 1275.153, \"end\": 1275.273, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 1275.273, \"end\": 1275.293, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"景\", \"start\": 1275.293, \"end\": 1275.333, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1275.333, \"end\": 1275.413, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1275.413, \"end\": 1275.433, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1275.433, \"end\": 1275.474, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1275.474, \"end\": 1275.594, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1275.594, \"end\": 1275.654, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 1275.654, \"end\": 1275.674, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"變\"}]}, {\"start\": 1303.188, \"end\": 1330.462, \"text\": \"但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1303.188, \"end\": 1303.308, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1303.308, \"end\": 1303.408, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1303.408, \"end\": 1303.528, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1303.528, \"end\": 1303.668, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1303.668, \"end\": 1303.808, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1303.808, \"end\": 1304.709, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1304.709, \"end\": 1304.849, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 1304.849, \"end\": 1304.989, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1304.989, \"end\": 1305.309, 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0.965}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1325.699, \"end\": 1325.839, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1325.839, \"end\": 1325.959, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1325.959, \"end\": 1326.359, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1326.359, \"end\": 1328.2, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 1328.2, \"end\": 1328.441, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"瓦\", \"start\": 1328.441, \"end\": 1328.601, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1328.601, \"end\": 1329.561, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1329.561, \"end\": 1329.661, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1329.661, \"end\": 1329.901, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 1329.901, \"end\": 1330.061, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 1330.061, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 1417.184, \"end\": 1417.204, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 1417.204, \"end\": 1417.325, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 1417.325, \"end\": 1417.345, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1417.345, \"end\": 1417.405, \"score\": 0.1}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1417.405, \"end\": 1417.425, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 1417.425, \"end\": 1417.605, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1417.605, \"end\": 1417.705, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1417.705, \"end\": 1417.725, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1417.725, \"end\": 1417.745, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1417.745, \"end\": 1417.825, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1417.825, \"end\": 1417.865, \"score\": 0.05}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1417.865, \"end\": 1417.885, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 1417.885, \"end\": 1418.005, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1418.005, \"end\": 1418.025, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1418.025, \"end\": 1418.066, \"score\": 0.036}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1418.066, \"end\": 1418.086, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 1418.086, \"end\": 1418.206, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1418.206, \"end\": 1418.226, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"廚\"}, {\"word\": \"藝\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1418.226, \"end\": 1418.306, \"score\": 0.258}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1418.306, \"end\": 1418.326, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 1418.326, \"end\": 1418.346, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 1418.346, \"end\": 1418.566, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 1418.566, \"end\": 1418.586, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 1418.586, \"end\": 1418.666, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1418.666, \"end\": 1418.686, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1418.686, \"end\": 1418.706, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 1418.706, \"end\": 1418.726, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 1427.857, \"end\": 1445.392, \"text\": \"您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1427.857, \"end\": 1428.238, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1428.238, \"end\": 1428.518, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 1428.518, \"end\": 1428.778, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 1428.778, \"end\": 1429.919, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1429.919, \"end\": 1430.119, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 1430.119, \"end\": 1430.56, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1430.56, \"end\": 1430.78, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1430.78, \"end\": 1430.92, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 1430.92, \"end\": 1431.3, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1431.3, \"end\": 1431.741, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1431.741, \"end\": 1431.961, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1431.961, \"end\": 1432.061, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1432.061, \"end\": 1432.401, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1432.401, \"end\": 1432.561, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1432.561, \"end\": 1432.761, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1432.761, \"end\": 1432.922, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1432.922, \"end\": 1433.522, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1433.522, \"end\": 1433.662, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 1433.662, \"end\": 1435.704, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1435.704, \"end\": 1436.084, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1436.084, \"end\": 1436.204, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1436.204, \"end\": 1436.404, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1436.404, \"end\": 1437.225, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1437.225, \"end\": 1437.405, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1437.405, \"end\": 1437.645, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1437.645, \"end\": 1437.946, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 1437.946, \"end\": 1438.086, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 1438.086, \"end\": 1438.326, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1438.326, \"end\": 1438.426, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1438.426, \"end\": 1438.466, \"score\": 0.408}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1438.466, \"end\": 1438.646, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 1438.646, \"end\": 1438.786, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 1438.786, \"end\": 1439.187, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1439.187, \"end\": 1439.447, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1439.447, \"end\": 1439.567, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 1439.567, \"end\": 1440.848, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1440.848, \"end\": 1441.248, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1441.248, \"end\": 1441.789, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1441.789, \"end\": 1442.049, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 1442.049, \"end\": 1442.85, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1442.85, \"end\": 1442.97, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1442.97, \"end\": 1443.831, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1443.831, \"end\": 1444.031, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1444.031, \"end\": 1444.171, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 1444.171, \"end\": 1444.872, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1444.872, \"end\": 1445.032, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 1445.032, \"end\": 1445.232, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 1445.232, \"end\": 1445.372, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1445.372, \"end\": 1445.392, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1446.564, \"end\": 1468.541, \"text\": \"我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1446.564, \"end\": 1446.644, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 1446.644, \"end\": 1447.265, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1447.265, \"end\": 1447.445, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1447.445, \"end\": 1448.245, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1448.245, \"end\": 1448.365, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 1448.365, \"end\": 1448.465, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1448.465, \"end\": 1448.626, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1448.626, \"end\": 1448.946, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1448.946, \"end\": 1449.066, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1449.066, \"end\": 1449.266, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 1449.266, \"end\": 1449.506, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 1449.506, \"end\": 1449.887, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1449.887, \"end\": 1450.127, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1450.127, \"end\": 1450.847, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1450.847, \"end\": 1451.128, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 1451.128, \"end\": 1451.788, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1451.788, \"end\": 1451.888, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 1451.888, \"end\": 1452.048, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1452.048, \"end\": 1452.509, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 1452.509, \"end\": 1453.069, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 1453.069, \"end\": 1453.269, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 1453.269, \"end\": 1455.131, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 1455.131, \"end\": 1455.751, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"勳\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 1455.751, \"end\": 1456.271, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1456.271, \"end\": 1456.472, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 1456.472, \"end\": 1456.772, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1456.772, \"end\": 1457.012, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1457.012, \"end\": 1457.232, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1457.232, \"end\": 1457.392, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 1457.392, \"end\": 1458.193, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1458.193, \"end\": 1458.293, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1458.293, \"end\": 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1465.038, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 1465.038, \"end\": 1465.719, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 1465.719, \"end\": 1465.959, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1465.959, \"end\": 1466.559, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1466.559, \"end\": 1466.68, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1466.68, \"end\": 1466.8, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 1466.8, \"end\": 1466.98, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 1466.98, \"end\": 1467.18, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 1467.18, \"end\": 1467.68, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1467.68, \"end\": 1467.78, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1467.78, \"end\": 1468.161, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1468.161, \"end\": 1468.361, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1472.123, \"end\": 1472.283, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 1472.283, \"end\": 1472.443, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1472.443, \"end\": 1472.543, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1472.543, \"end\": 1472.724, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 1472.724, \"end\": 1472.744, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 1472.744, \"end\": 1472.824, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 1472.824, \"end\": 1473.044, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1473.044, \"end\": 1473.464, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1473.464, \"end\": 1473.684, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1473.684, \"end\": 1473.884, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1473.884, \"end\": 1473.904, \"score\": 0.143}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1473.904, 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1787.839, \"end\": 1788.079, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 1788.079, \"end\": 1788.199, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1788.199, \"end\": 1788.219, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:05,904\n好,院長我想請教一下,因為我們才化法已經25年都沒有修正了。\n\n2\n00:00:06,328 --> 00:00:31,856\n所以其實地方的這個首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精審前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方\n\n3\n00:00:32,335 --> 00:00:59,444\n的這個財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想喔那我想請問一下院長喔您認為才化法喔修正是財政問題還是政治問題他一直是一個財政的問題但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配的確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動\n\n4\n00:01:00,097 --> 00:01:00,717\n我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長\n\n5\n00:01:25,203 --> 00:01:49,856\n他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心\n\n6\n00:01:51,557 --> 00:02:20,403\n還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統\n\n7\n00:02:21,503 --> 00:02:38,596\n他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。\n\n8\n00:02:39,897 --> 00:02:42,198\n各位委員說明,這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得。\n\n9\n00:03:00,049 --> 00:03:25,783\n我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟\n\n10\n00:03:27,104 --> 00:03:52,422\n院長您剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說\n\n11\n00:03:53,303 --> 00:03:54,164\n新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍。\n\n12\n00:04:15,447 --> 00:04:38,287\n台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長\n\n13\n00:04:40,305 --> 00:04:51,860\n我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。\n\n14\n00:04:52,967 --> 00:05:17,492\n第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方支付那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨\n\n15\n00:05:22,693 --> 00:05:44,347\n民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想,院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,現在的才化法的精神,我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。但是貴黨所提出的這個版本我看下去就是本來已經多的還會更多,本來已經少的也不見得再多。沒有喔,你看到我們剛剛已經講,六都本來是61.76%,現在降到49%,也就是說六都其實\n\n16\n00:06:18,445 --> 00:06:26,733\n一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以...長照、延展、封建也不能否認\n\n17\n00:06:40,945 --> 00:06:41,566\n目前院長是誰?\n\n18\n00:06:59,238 --> 00:07:25,505\n那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是嗷嗷逮捕真的是米缸空了而且沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後\n\n19\n00:07:29,669 --> 00:07:37,468\n請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民\n\n20\n00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:59,716\n那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式\n\n21\n00:08:05,277 --> 00:08:30,778\n請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長\n\n22\n00:08:34,978 --> 00:08:49,837\n農業線人口的流失經濟的多面向的發展還有人口老化問題都是一個原因因素其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話我想主要就是因為他的財政收入\n\n23\n00:09:06,594 --> 00:09:33,348\n我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎\n\n24\n00:09:34,738 --> 00:10:00,713\n更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重\n\n25\n00:10:01,933 --> 00:10:30,854\n請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨\n\n26\n00:10:31,496 --> 00:10:54,769\n我們現在正在國土計畫法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是\n\n27\n00:10:57,932 --> 00:11:01,133\n您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他\n\n28\n00:11:28,241 --> 00:11:42,311\n希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計畫表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做\n\n29\n00:11:42,793 --> 00:11:45,614\n您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那\n\n30\n00:12:07,425 --> 00:12:33,073\n農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣\n\n31\n00:12:34,333 --> 00:12:54,099\n當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二\n\n32\n00:12:55,199 --> 00:13:19,441\n那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明\n\n33\n00:13:22,003 --> 00:13:45,876\n我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一致性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,\n\n34\n00:13:47,529 --> 00:13:53,413\n市長,剛剛我請教就是說,是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的...\n\n35\n00:14:13,285 --> 00:14:33,235\n我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些\n\n36\n00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:59,636\n我另外再請教一下院長,就是在2017年的時候,屏東縣長潘孟安表示,40多年前的區域計劃法實施的時候,屏東被劃定為農業區,從此判了屏東死刑。這對屏東來說很不公平。那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃,屏東卻超過8萬公頃。\n\n37\n00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:22,339\n憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損影響農業縣市的發展所以\n\n38\n00:15:25,101 --> 00:15:37,715\n從明年開始是否可以把農民漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準並制定補償農民的農業縣市的方案。報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地\n\n39\n00:15:39,264 --> 00:15:40,104\n您可以看一下我們的這個\n\n40\n00:16:06,190 --> 00:16:29,683\n雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個\n\n41\n00:16:30,763 --> 00:16:33,064\n您剛有提到的不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個您可以看一下\n\n42\n00:16:50,919 --> 00:17:16,404\n竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚\n\n43\n00:17:16,724 --> 00:17:36,138\n我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善\n\n44\n00:17:38,258 --> 00:18:01,383\n這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。\n\n45\n00:18:06,076 --> 00:18:26,194\n三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬\n\n46\n00:18:27,475 --> 00:18:42,927\n五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嘛如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債\n\n47\n00:18:43,787 --> 00:19:08,919\n與美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償\n\n48\n00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:19,003\n我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有1萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。那另外再請教一下院長,就是我們現在可以看到,\n\n49\n00:19:36,147 --> 00:19:56,539\n全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比,超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是,現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張,目前能夠有\n\n50\n00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:58,361\n請問院長是否同意?\n\n51\n00:20:21,216 --> 00:20:50,276\n議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要我希望不要是因為生活在臺灣但同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命\n\n52\n00:20:51,597 --> 00:21:13,652\n另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說\n\n53\n00:21:14,873 --> 00:21:15,674\n報告委員,我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變\n\n54\n00:21:43,188 --> 00:22:10,462\n但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的\n\n55\n00:22:12,264 --> 00:22:25,334\n那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個機組降下來的話\n\n56\n00:22:26,175 --> 00:22:42,568\n因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題\n\n57\n00:22:43,749 --> 00:23:02,481\n所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴?是的,我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們\n\n58\n00:23:04,122 --> 00:23:28,955\n您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標所以那只是一個備載的部分所以我們積載的部分還是一樣我剛才跟你們報告過了我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電它是夠的這個我們根據這個市場上面的這一些調查\n\n59\n00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:38,726\n包括現在的AI可能會使用的對,剛剛講到AI因為現在大家事實上都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話核能廚藝之後對於爭取AI的產業到台灣來\n\n60\n00:23:47,857 --> 00:24:05,392\n您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的\n\n61\n00:24:06,564 --> 00:24:28,541\n我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩\n\n62\n00:24:31,483 --> 00:24:34,144\n接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是\n\n63\n00:25:01,394 --> 00:25:24,673\n賴清德總統在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶,但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策。院長您看一下,現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶,包租代管25萬戶,跟租金50萬戶,\n\n64\n00:25:26,544 --> 00:25:26,944\n這樣子的這個互數是對的嗎?\n\n65\n00:25:31,554 --> 00:25:56,254\n這是我們努力的目標。好,那您可以看得到我們那個租金補貼的部分,其實內政部到113年5月15號指,就已經核定了52萬2660戶了。也就是說,其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了。那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶,其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了?\n\n66\n00:25:57,755 --> 00:26:22,685\n我們有討論過,請部長來說明。是,我想委員講得沒有錯,因為租金補貼它是比較快速,跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣。所以呢,它確實是達到52萬戶以上。對,那就是說這個,其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎?並不是現在才完成。因為它全部是社宅的租屋政策。也不是你們努力的目標嗎?它是一個package。\n\n67\n00:26:23,425 --> 00:26:46,792\n那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎\n\n68\n00:26:53,972 --> 00:27:08,122\n我不曉得你講的是哪個item。就是在規劃中的有24509戶。我們的估計是到年底之前,盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。對,那就是原來的12萬戶。那25萬戶,就還有另外13萬戶的話,你們要在8年內,也就是7年內要達到,這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶。\n\n69\n00:27:22,112 --> 00:27:38,308\n謝謝許委員的關心。我們未來會採取多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地。然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建。那用這樣多元的方向的話,在短時間內,也就是說\n\n70\n00:27:39,329 --> 00:27:39,369\n﹚主席\n\n71\n00:28:21,997 --> 00:28:22,157\n謝謝,謝謝余院長\n\n72\n00:28:44,079 --> 00:29:00,631\n另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩\n\n73\n00:29:05,754 --> 00:29:06,154\n新型的多樣化\n\n74\n00:29:27,805 --> 00:29:45,997\n金管會會當主管機關嗎?這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調。我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。\n\n75\n00:29:46,878 --> 00:29:48,219\n謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備選。接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t5904\t好,院長我想請教一下,因為我們才化法已經25年都沒有修正了。\n6328\t31856\t所以其實地方的這個首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精審前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方\n32335\t59444\t的這個財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想喔那我想請問一下院長喔您認為才化法喔修正是財政問題還是政治問題他一直是一個財政的問題但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配的確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動\n60097\t60717\t我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長\n85203\t109856\t他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心\n111557\t140403\t還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統\n141503\t158596\t他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。\n159897\t162198\t各位委員說明,這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得。\n180049\t205783\t我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟\n207104\t232422\t院長您剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說\n233303\t234164\t新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍。\n255447\t278287\t台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長\n280305\t291860\t我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。\n292967\t317492\t第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方支付那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨\n322693\t344347\t民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想,院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,現在的才化法的精神,我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。但是貴黨所提出的這個版本我看下去就是本來已經多的還會更多,本來已經少的也不見得再多。沒有喔,你看到我們剛剛已經講,六都本來是61.76%,現在降到49%,也就是說六都其實\n350811\t377568\t議員﹚\n378445\t386733\t一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以...長照、延展、封建也不能否認\n400945\t401566\t目前院長是誰?\n419238\t445505\t那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是嗷嗷逮捕真的是米缸空了而且沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後\n449669\t457468\t請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民\n458291\t479716\t那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式\n485277\t510778\t請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長\n514978\t529837\t農業線人口的流失經濟的多面向的發展還有人口老化問題都是一個原因因素其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話我想主要就是因為他的財政收入\n531237\t546374\t﹗\n546594\t573348\t我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎\n574738\t600713\t更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重\n601933\t630854\t請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨\n631496\t654769\t我們現在正在國土計畫法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是\n657932\t661133\t您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他\n688241\t702311\t希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計畫表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做\n702793\t705614\t您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那\n727425\t753073\t農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣\n754333\t774099\t當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二\n775199\t799441\t那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明\n802003\t825876\t我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一致性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,\n827529\t833413\t市長,剛剛我請教就是說,是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的...\n853285\t873235\t我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些\n879360\t899636\t我另外再請教一下院長,就是在2017年的時候,屏東縣長潘孟安表示,40多年前的區域計劃法實施的時候,屏東被劃定為農業區,從此判了屏東死刑。這對屏東來說很不公平。那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃,屏東卻超過8萬公頃。\n903039\t922339\t憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損影響農業縣市的發展所以\n925101\t937715\t從明年開始是否可以把農民漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準並制定補償農民的農業縣市的方案。報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地\n939264\t940104\t您可以看一下我們的這個\n966190\t989683\t雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個\n990763\t993064\t您剛有提到的不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個您可以看一下\n1010919\t1036404\t竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚\n1036724\t1056138\t我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善\n1058258\t1081383\t這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。\n1086076\t1106194\t三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬\n1107475\t1122927\t五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嘛如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債\n1123787\t1148919\t與美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償\n1152401\t1159003\t我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有1萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。那另外再請教一下院長,就是我們現在可以看到,\n1176147\t1196539\t全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比,超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是,現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張,目前能夠有\n1197840\t1198361\t請問院長是否同意?\n1221216\t1250276\t議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要我希望不要是因為生活在臺灣但同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命\n1251597\t1273652\t另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說\n1274873\t1275674\t報告委員,我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變\n1303188\t1330462\t但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的\n1332264\t1345334\t那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個機組降下來的話\n1346175\t1362568\t因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題\n1363749\t1382481\t所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴?是的,我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們\n1384122\t1408955\t您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標所以那只是一個備載的部分所以我們積載的部分還是一樣我剛才跟你們報告過了我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電它是夠的這個我們根據這個市場上面的這一些調查\n1410476\t1418726\t包括現在的AI可能會使用的對,剛剛講到AI因為現在大家事實上都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話核能廚藝之後對於爭取AI的產業到台灣來\n1427857\t1445392\t您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的\n1446564\t1468541\t我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩\n1471483\t1474144\t接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是\n1501394\t1524673\t賴清德總統在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶,但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策。院長您看一下,現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶,包租代管25萬戶,跟租金50萬戶,\n1526544\t1526944\t這樣子的這個互數是對的嗎?\n1531554\t1556254\t這是我們努力的目標。好,那您可以看得到我們那個租金補貼的部分,其實內政部到113年5月15號指,就已經核定了52萬2660戶了。也就是說,其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了。那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶,其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了?\n1557755\t1582685\t我們有討論過,請部長來說明。是,我想委員講得沒有錯,因為租金補貼它是比較快速,跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣。所以呢,它確實是達到52萬戶以上。對,那就是說這個,其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎?並不是現在才完成。因為它全部是社宅的租屋政策。也不是你們努力的目標嗎?它是一個package。\n1583425\t1606792\t那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎\n1613972\t1628122\t我不曉得你講的是哪個item。就是在規劃中的有24509戶。我們的估計是到年底之前,盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。對,那就是原來的12萬戶。那25萬戶,就還有另外13萬戶的話,你們要在8年內,也就是7年內要達到,這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶。\n1642112\t1658308\t謝謝許委員的關心。我們未來會採取多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地。然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建。那用這樣多元的方向的話,在短時間內,也就是說\n1659329\t1659369\t﹚主席\n1681101\t1701852\t﹚議員\n1701997\t1702157\t謝謝,謝謝余院長\n1724079\t1740631\t另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩\n1745754\t1746154\t新型的多樣化\n1767805\t1785997\t金管會會當主管機關嗎?這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調。我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。\n1786878\t1788219\t謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備選。接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員\n","txt":"好,院長我想請教一下,因為我們才化法已經25年都沒有修正了。\n所以其實地方的這個首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精審前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方\n的這個財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想喔那我想請問一下院長喔您認為才化法喔修正是財政問題還是政治問題他一直是一個財政的問題但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配的確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動\n我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長\n他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心\n還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統\n他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。\n各位委員說明,這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得。\n我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟\n院長您剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說\n新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍。\n台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長\n我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。\n第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方支付那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨\n民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想,院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,現在的才化法的精神,我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。但是貴黨所提出的這個版本我看下去就是本來已經多的還會更多,本來已經少的也不見得再多。沒有喔,你看到我們剛剛已經講,六都本來是61.76%,現在降到49%,也就是說六都其實\n議員﹚\n一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以...長照、延展、封建也不能否認\n目前院長是誰?\n那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是嗷嗷逮捕真的是米缸空了而且沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後\n請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民\n那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式\n請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長\n農業線人口的流失經濟的多面向的發展還有人口老化問題都是一個原因因素其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話我想主要就是因為他的財政收入\n﹗\n我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎\n更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重\n請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨\n我們現在正在國土計畫法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是\n您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他\n希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計畫表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做\n您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那\n農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣\n當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二\n那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明\n我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一致性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,\n市長,剛剛我請教就是說,是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的...\n我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些\n我另外再請教一下院長,就是在2017年的時候,屏東縣長潘孟安表示,40多年前的區域計劃法實施的時候,屏東被劃定為農業區,從此判了屏東死刑。這對屏東來說很不公平。那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃,屏東卻超過8萬公頃。\n憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損影響農業縣市的發展所以\n從明年開始是否可以把農民漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準並制定補償農民的農業縣市的方案。報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地\n您可以看一下我們的這個\n雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個\n您剛有提到的不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個您可以看一下\n竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚\n我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善\n這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。\n三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬\n五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嘛如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債\n與美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償\n我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有1萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。那另外再請教一下院長,就是我們現在可以看到,\n全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比,超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是,現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張,目前能夠有\n請問院長是否同意?\n議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要我希望不要是因為生活在臺灣但同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命\n另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說\n報告委員,我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變\n但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的\n那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個機組降下來的話\n因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題\n所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴?是的,我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們\n您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標所以那只是一個備載的部分所以我們積載的部分還是一樣我剛才跟你們報告過了我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電它是夠的這個我們根據這個市場上面的這一些調查\n包括現在的AI可能會使用的對,剛剛講到AI因為現在大家事實上都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話核能廚藝之後對於爭取AI的產業到台灣來\n您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的\n我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩\n接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是\n賴清德總統在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶,但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策。院長您看一下,現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶,包租代管25萬戶,跟租金50萬戶,\n這樣子的這個互數是對的嗎?\n這是我們努力的目標。好,那您可以看得到我們那個租金補貼的部分,其實內政部到113年5月15號指,就已經核定了52萬2660戶了。也就是說,其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了。那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶,其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了?\n我們有討論過,請部長來說明。是,我想委員講得沒有錯,因為租金補貼它是比較快速,跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣。所以呢,它確實是達到52萬戶以上。對,那就是說這個,其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎?並不是現在才完成。因為它全部是社宅的租屋政策。也不是你們努力的目標嗎?它是一個package。\n那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎\n我不曉得你講的是哪個item。就是在規劃中的有24509戶。我們的估計是到年底之前,盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。對,那就是原來的12萬戶。那25萬戶,就還有另外13萬戶的話,你們要在8年內,也就是7年內要達到,這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶。\n謝謝許委員的關心。我們未來會採取多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地。然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建。那用這樣多元的方向的話,在短時間內,也就是說\n﹚主席\n﹚議員\n謝謝,謝謝余院長\n另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩\n新型的多樣化\n金管會會當主管機關嗎?這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調。我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。\n謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備選。接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:05.904\n好,院長我想請教一下,因為我們才化法已經25年都沒有修正了。\n\n00:06.328 --> 00:31.856\n所以其實地方的這個首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精審前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方\n\n00:32.335 --> 00:59.444\n的這個財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想喔那我想請問一下院長喔您認為才化法喔修正是財政問題還是政治問題他一直是一個財政的問題但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配的確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動\n\n01:00.097 --> 01:00.717\n我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長\n\n01:25.203 --> 01:49.856\n他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心\n\n01:51.557 --> 02:20.403\n還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統\n\n02:21.503 --> 02:38.596\n他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。\n\n02:39.897 --> 02:42.198\n各位委員說明,這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得。\n\n03:00.049 --> 03:25.783\n我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟\n\n03:27.104 --> 03:52.422\n院長您剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說\n\n03:53.303 --> 03:54.164\n新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍。\n\n04:15.447 --> 04:38.287\n台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長\n\n04:40.305 --> 04:51.860\n我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。\n\n04:52.967 --> 05:17.492\n第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方支付那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨\n\n05:22.693 --> 05:44.347\n民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想,院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,現在的才化法的精神,我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。但是貴黨所提出的這個版本我看下去就是本來已經多的還會更多,本來已經少的也不見得再多。沒有喔,你看到我們剛剛已經講,六都本來是61.76%,現在降到49%,也就是說六都其實\n\n06:18.445 --> 06:26.733\n一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以...長照、延展、封建也不能否認\n\n06:40.945 --> 06:41.566\n目前院長是誰?\n\n06:59.238 --> 07:25.505\n那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是嗷嗷逮捕真的是米缸空了而且沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後\n\n07:29.669 --> 07:37.468\n請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民\n\n07:38.291 --> 07:59.716\n那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式\n\n08:05.277 --> 08:30.778\n請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長\n\n08:34.978 --> 08:49.837\n農業線人口的流失經濟的多面向的發展還有人口老化問題都是一個原因因素其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話我想主要就是因為他的財政收入\n\n09:06.594 --> 09:33.348\n我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎\n\n09:34.738 --> 10:00.713\n更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重\n\n10:01.933 --> 10:30.854\n請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨\n\n10:31.496 --> 10:54.769\n我們現在正在國土計畫法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是\n\n10:57.932 --> 11:01.133\n您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他\n\n11:28.241 --> 11:42.311\n希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計畫表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做\n\n11:42.793 --> 11:45.614\n您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那\n\n12:07.425 --> 12:33.073\n農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣\n\n12:34.333 --> 12:54.099\n當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二\n\n12:55.199 --> 13:19.441\n那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明\n\n13:22.003 --> 13:45.876\n我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一致性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,\n\n13:47.529 --> 13:53.413\n市長,剛剛我請教就是說,是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的...\n\n14:13.285 --> 14:33.235\n我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些\n\n14:39.360 --> 14:59.636\n我另外再請教一下院長,就是在2017年的時候,屏東縣長潘孟安表示,40多年前的區域計劃法實施的時候,屏東被劃定為農業區,從此判了屏東死刑。這對屏東來說很不公平。那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃,屏東卻超過8萬公頃。\n\n15:03.039 --> 15:22.339\n憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損影響農業縣市的發展所以\n\n15:25.101 --> 15:37.715\n從明年開始是否可以把農民漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準並制定補償農民的農業縣市的方案。報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地\n\n15:39.264 --> 15:40.104\n您可以看一下我們的這個\n\n16:06.190 --> 16:29.683\n雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個\n\n16:30.763 --> 16:33.064\n您剛有提到的不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個您可以看一下\n\n16:50.919 --> 17:16.404\n竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚\n\n17:16.724 --> 17:36.138\n我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善\n\n17:38.258 --> 18:01.383\n這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。\n\n18:06.076 --> 18:26.194\n三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬\n\n18:27.475 --> 18:42.927\n五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嘛如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債\n\n18:43.787 --> 19:08.919\n與美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償\n\n19:12.401 --> 19:19.003\n我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有1萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。那另外再請教一下院長,就是我們現在可以看到,\n\n19:36.147 --> 19:56.539\n全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比,超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是,現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張,目前能夠有\n\n19:57.840 --> 19:58.361\n請問院長是否同意?\n\n20:21.216 --> 20:50.276\n議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要我希望不要是因為生活在臺灣但同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命\n\n20:51.597 --> 21:13.652\n另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說\n\n21:14.873 --> 21:15.674\n報告委員,我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變\n\n21:43.188 --> 22:10.462\n但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的\n\n22:12.264 --> 22:25.334\n那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個機組降下來的話\n\n22:26.175 --> 22:42.568\n因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題\n\n22:43.749 --> 23:02.481\n所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴?是的,我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們\n\n23:04.122 --> 23:28.955\n您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標所以那只是一個備載的部分所以我們積載的部分還是一樣我剛才跟你們報告過了我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電它是夠的這個我們根據這個市場上面的這一些調查\n\n23:30.476 --> 23:38.726\n包括現在的AI可能會使用的對,剛剛講到AI因為現在大家事實上都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話核能廚藝之後對於爭取AI的產業到台灣來\n\n23:47.857 --> 24:05.392\n您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的\n\n24:06.564 --> 24:28.541\n我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩\n\n24:31.483 --> 24:34.144\n接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是\n\n25:01.394 --> 25:24.673\n賴清德總統在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶,但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策。院長您看一下,現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶,包租代管25萬戶,跟租金50萬戶,\n\n25:26.544 --> 25:26.944\n這樣子的這個互數是對的嗎?\n\n25:31.554 --> 25:56.254\n這是我們努力的目標。好,那您可以看得到我們那個租金補貼的部分,其實內政部到113年5月15號指,就已經核定了52萬2660戶了。也就是說,其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了。那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶,其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了?\n\n25:57.755 --> 26:22.685\n我們有討論過,請部長來說明。是,我想委員講得沒有錯,因為租金補貼它是比較快速,跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣。所以呢,它確實是達到52萬戶以上。對,那就是說這個,其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎?並不是現在才完成。因為它全部是社宅的租屋政策。也不是你們努力的目標嗎?它是一個package。\n\n26:23.425 --> 26:46.792\n那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎\n\n26:53.972 --> 27:08.122\n我不曉得你講的是哪個item。就是在規劃中的有24509戶。我們的估計是到年底之前,盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。對,那就是原來的12萬戶。那25萬戶,就還有另外13萬戶的話,你們要在8年內,也就是7年內要達到,這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶。\n\n27:22.112 --> 27:38.308\n謝謝許委員的關心。我們未來會採取多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地。然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建。那用這樣多元的方向的話,在短時間內,也就是說\n\n27:39.329 --> 27:39.369\n﹚主席\n\n28:21.997 --> 28:22.157\n謝謝,謝謝余院長\n\n28:44.079 --> 29:00.631\n另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩\n\n29:05.754 --> 29:06.154\n新型的多樣化\n\n29:27.805 --> 29:45.997\n金管會會當主管機關嗎?這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調。我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。\n\n29:46.878 --> 29:48.219\n謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備選。接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":5.904,"text":"好,院長我想請教一下,因為我們才化法已經25年都沒有修正了。"},{"start":6.328,"end":31.856,"text":"所以其實地方的這個首長大家都叫苦連天尤其是在這個現在的我們中央跟地方的這個權限也有很大的一個改變以前在精審前的話我們其實大概比中央跟地方的產業比例大概是6比4那現在的話大概是7.5比2.5所以為了因應中央跟地方的功能的改變其實應該同步調整中央跟地方"},{"start":32.335,"end":59.444,"text":"的這個財政分配才能達到財政公平而且能夠真正實施地方自治的一個理想喔那我想請問一下院長喔您認為才化法喔修正是財政問題還是政治問題他一直是一個財政的問題但是他牽扯到政治在很多的角力所以我常常說隨時分配水平分配的確實是一個難題否則不可能再推動"},{"start":60.097,"end":60.717,"text":"我想在2012年的時候當時的賴清德市長"},{"start":85.203,"end":109.856,"text":"他曾經講過升格五都之後其實很多的人口都往中北部去發展那其實升格之後很多的問題是升格只做一半而且相關的配套法案包括財政收支劃分法跟公債法並沒有隨同的通過當時賴清德市長也就像我們的賴總統就跟當時的行政院長陳聰說一定要拿出非過不可的決心"},{"start":111.557,"end":140.403,"text":"還有包括在2012年當時的我們的民進黨的這個主席蘇貞昌也說他說縣市長在編列預算的時候事實上就很像是看著嗷嗷逮捕的孩子可是米缸卻是空的甚至他說他在編預算的時候常常半夜都睡不著覺醒來是滿冒冷汗那我相信這也是現在很多縣市長的一個心聲那在2017年的12月的時候當時的行政院長也就是我們現在的賴總統"},{"start":141.503,"end":158.596,"text":"他開記者會說他會在2018年提出財政收支劃分法的修正草案,但是6年過去了,到目前都還沒有處理。我想其實由剛我講的這些來看的話,其實財劃法修訂就是一個政治問題。"},{"start":159.897,"end":162.198,"text":"各位委員說明,這個過去歷史上這麼多次努力的痕跡我們都記得。"},{"start":180.049,"end":205.783,"text":"我們都記得但是為什麼沒有辦法落實下去無論執政黨是哪一黨都沒有辦法落實下去就是因為剛剛說的在分配上每個縣市都有各自不同的盤算所以造成在到最後都是停下來那歷史都是這個樣子所以我們今天要回頭看的是為什麼會產生這樣的困難各縣市的不同但是中央政府是用一般的補助款跟"},{"start":207.104,"end":232.422,"text":"院長您剛有提到嘛因為垂直分配跟水平分配的關係所以沒有辦法一直達到這個財化法修正的這個目標嘛那我跟您講一下目前我們國民黨團有提出一個版本這是國民黨邀請16個縣市所制定出來的財化法的一個修正的一個草案您可以看一下我們這個財化法的修正版本沒有藍綠之分就增加的比例來說"},{"start":233.303,"end":234.164,"text":"新竹市1.5倍、六都中新北增加1.3倍、台北增加0.6倍。"},{"start":255.447,"end":278.287,"text":"台南跟高雄在六都中的征服是居中間並沒有獨厚國民黨執政縣市的差距六都的這個比例也從61.76降到49%可以說是最能平衡城鄉差距也解決了您剛剛所提到的這個有關垂直分配跟水平分配的問題所以我想請教一下院長"},{"start":280.305,"end":291.86,"text":"我們可以看到國民黨版的財化法的修正有三大的重點。第一個是公平,讓各縣市的政府都能夠有最妥善的預算。"},{"start":292.967,"end":317.492,"text":"第二個是直接有效可以照顧全國2350萬的人民第三個可以讓整體的施政和國家發展都能夠逐步的向前那國民黨的這個版本呢我們看到的就是只有地方支付那請問行政院如果沒有辦法提出院版來的話是不是可以共同來支持我們的國民黨版的這個版本讓我們一起來幫賴總統實現他當院長時候的這個支票與達成在野黨"},{"start":322.693,"end":344.347,"text":"民進黨擔任在野黨的時候的理想,院長您覺得呢?對不起委員,現在的才化法的精神,我們就是朝向公平有效跟促進地方發展的原則去做,已經相當多年了。但是貴黨所提出的這個版本我看下去就是本來已經多的還會更多,本來已經少的也不見得再多。沒有喔,你看到我們剛剛已經講,六都本來是61.76%,現在降到49%,也就是說六都其實"},{"start":350.811,"end":377.568,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":378.445,"end":386.733,"text":"一般的補助款跟統籌分配稅款跟計劃型的補助來橫屏地方的發展。這已經行之多年。那我們可以...長照、延展、封建也不能否認"},{"start":400.945,"end":401.566,"text":"目前院長是誰?"},{"start":419.238,"end":445.505,"text":"那要看到受到院長關愛的眼神才有可能得到更多的補助那有的地方可能就是嗷嗷逮捕真的是米缸空了而且沒有辦法得到相對的補助所以我覺得有一定的公式跟標準我覺得有一定的公式跟標準的話應該就比較能夠有這樣子的一個公平有效的一個財務分配的方式那當然如果行政院沒有辦法提出院版的話那如果我們的這個國民黨團的這個版本這個通過之後"},{"start":449.669,"end":457.468,"text":"請問行政院會不會提復議?這是假設性的問題我們現在認為現行的版本是能夠照顧到地方照顧到人民"},{"start":458.291,"end":479.716,"text":"那中央不會用在站在中央為利益的考量上來做任何的觸發點這一點我們希望能夠再經過合理的對話那我想其實已經溝通那麼多年那其實大部分的縣市都覺得地方的財源是不夠的所以說這個部分的話表示財化法的修正回到精神前的6比4是有非常大的空間請院長要這個好好的跟我們的這個財政部這邊來去協調出一條最好的一個方式"},{"start":485.277,"end":510.778,"text":"請部長說明一下我現在不用部長說明謝謝因為剛剛院長已經大概有說明了那我再請院長看一下我們現在這個有幾個傳統的農業縣人口流失非常的嚴重包括苗栗、彰化、南投、雲林、嘉義、屏東那您知道這個農業縣的人口流失嚴重主要是因為什麼請教院長"},{"start":514.978,"end":529.837,"text":"農業線人口的流失經濟的多面向的發展還有人口老化問題都是一個原因因素其實農業線會有這樣的一個問題的話我想主要就是因為他的財政收入"},{"start":531.237,"end":546.374,"text":"﹗"},{"start":546.594,"end":573.348,"text":"我覺得修正財政收支劃分法才是最重要的另外我再請教一下院長要就較幾個國土計劃法上路之後所衍生的問題在104年12月國土計劃法立法通過之後為了確保國人的糧食安全政府也規劃全國移回戶農地的面積大概是81萬公頃這些土地不僅是生產糧食的基礎"},{"start":574.738,"end":600.713,"text":"更是維護國人食物安全的重要保障那這些農地因為不能夠隨意的變更所以影響農民的權益也甚巨加上這個受規範的縣市也沒有獲得合理的補償所以連帶影響農業縣市未來的發展恐怕也會造成農業縣市人口的加速的外流剛剛已經提到已經這個外流非常嚴重外漂非常嚴重"},{"start":601.933,"end":630.854,"text":"請問一下院長因為國土計劃法對農業的衝擊很大那現在有一些縣市也針對這個部分其實也提出很多的這個現在的問題希望能夠來改善所以會讓農業縣市有更長的時間準備也讓這些縣市有充分的可以跟這個農民溝通的一個機會請問一下我們的國土計劃法是不是能夠展延兩年讓這個計劃能夠推動得更為順利不會引起民怨"},{"start":631.496,"end":654.769,"text":"我們現在正在國土計畫法的這個程序當中預計明年要上路那今年的6月底希望各縣市能夠報上來各縣市的計畫那現在目前來看是只有三個縣市但是我們經過跟各縣市一一的詢問之後啊剛剛我們內政部劉部長已經說過了有四個縣市嗎?可能會有四個縣市是"},{"start":657.932,"end":661.133,"text":"您所關心的雲林縣是有困擾的但是我也要跟那個委員報告我們到目前為止辦了44場的這個說明會那雲林縣政府裡面的相關單位都非常清楚這個狀況我們也願意協助他"},{"start":688.241,"end":702.311,"text":"希望也是在6月底之前可以把這個國土功能分析計畫表送到我們內政部來做審查。因為我想雲林縣政府陳榮英剛剛講的就是很多有治案難行的問題沒有辦法解決也沒有辦法跟農民做"},{"start":702.793,"end":705.614,"text":"您可以看一下我們現在這個國土計劃法的這個您可以看一下我們現在雲林縣在之前提報的農醫是大概60839公頃占全國比例最高那"},{"start":727.425,"end":753.073,"text":"農一加農二是87,480公頃加起來也是全國最高但是您可以看到雲林縣它並不是農地面積最高的縣市最高的應該是屏東縣第二高的是台南市那為什麼這個大部分的我想縣市就為了發展地方盡量保留自己的壇心而目前申報最多的是雲林縣"},{"start":754.333,"end":774.099,"text":"當然這8萬多公頃的話將來土地只能從事農業的工作可能會影響雲林縣未來的發展所以院長在這一次我們看到農一農二的話設標準並不一致所以現在雲林縣打算參考屏東縣的版本把台塘地跟公有地化為農一私有地化為農二"},{"start":775.199,"end":799.441,"text":"那這樣雲林縣的這個農業面積就可以從60839公頃減為5836公頃那這樣子請問一下跟屏東縣的這個化射標準一致那請問院長跟部長支持嗎今天答覆很多委員的隨詢就是這種劃分的標準是全國各縣市一致的不會獨厚哪一個縣市但是這個劃分的細部的這個執行請部長來說明"},{"start":802.003,"end":825.876,"text":"我想跟委員報告,就是我們在農醫到農務本身的化設的原則是全國一致性的。但是同樣的縣市政府也會根據他當地的一個發展跟他的一個規劃,他會做一些調整。那每一次的縣市的國土的一個審議委員會的話,我想農業部都有派員去表達我們的專業意見跟提醒。那以現在目前來講,"},{"start":827.529,"end":833.413,"text":"市長,剛剛我請教就是說,是不是既然是全國的標準應該是一致的嗎?所以雲林縣是不是可以比照這個屏東縣的方式把這個農業農業重新的..."},{"start":853.285,"end":873.235,"text":"我剛才有說過了就是全國一致性的一個標準但是各縣市政府他會參照他們的相關的一個產業的需求那我們也會提供一個專業的意見我們會提供專業的意見如果說他畫的比例我舉個例子有一些像雲林縣也有有一些"},{"start":879.36,"end":899.636,"text":"我另外再請教一下院長,就是在2017年的時候,屏東縣長潘孟安表示,40多年前的區域計劃法實施的時候,屏東被劃定為農業區,從此判了屏東死刑。這對屏東來說很不公平。那潘孟安也不滿的說新北市的農地只有6000公頃,屏東卻超過8萬公頃。"},{"start":903.039,"end":922.339,"text":"憑什麼屏東只能作為糧倉新北市的土地就能被充分利用完全不公平那我想以這個邏輯來說對雲林縣來說可能更為不公平啊所以說在國土計劃法實施之後農民農地農用算不算是特別犧牲這樣會不會導致農民的權益受損影響農業縣市的發展所以"},{"start":925.101,"end":937.715,"text":"從明年開始是否可以把農民漁牧產值納入縣市補助經費的分配標準並制定補償農民的農業縣市的方案。報告委員各縣市尤其是農業用地"},{"start":939.264,"end":940.104,"text":"您可以看一下我們的這個"},{"start":966.19,"end":989.683,"text":"雲林這個從業人口我們可以看到就是以這個農業縣跟工商業的都市人民的可支配所得的差異臺灣的平均是一年是94萬雲林縣則67萬低於平均的27萬跟台北市的落差更高達58.3萬所以這個部分的話我們就看到就是農業縣的收入偏低所以呢對於這個"},{"start":990.763,"end":993.064,"text":"您剛有提到的不管是做什麼農業發展或什麼農業的這個您可以看一下"},{"start":1010.919,"end":1036.404,"text":"竹科它只有1375公頃就創造了1兆4千億的產值而雲林縣的88000公頃只能創造855億元的一個產值這就是由這個數字就可以看到區域發展的失衡跟落差所以說院長這個農業部也有說會優先投入農政資源於農醫、優蘭農地但投入什麼資源金額跟方式都沒有說清楚"},{"start":1036.724,"end":1056.138,"text":"我跟委員報告就是未來農業的次元第一個就是我們會以就是彰顯農民保護農地確保我們糧食安全的一個角度所以我們會對於環境的對綠綠色給付的部分然後用堆疊制的方式包括他的生態給付包括他種植的時候友善"},{"start":1058.258,"end":1081.383,"text":"這些的話我想都要充分的讓農民了解,他們才能夠針對國際計畫法實施之後,能夠給予更多的這個協助,讓他們更加了解。那當然我想您可以再看一下,其實請問院長知不知道我們現在的農地一公頃大概多少錢?農地?對,一公頃大概多少錢?各個地方應該不一樣吧?對,在平均來說。"},{"start":1086.076,"end":1106.194,"text":"三到五十萬應該有吧?平均一公頃的農地大概是一千五百萬啦但是呢事實上很多我們的這個比如越北部就像你剛講的越北部他的這個農地面積可能就更高那我有做了一個試算就是現在我們看到是農地每公頃的收入大概是12萬"},{"start":1107.475,"end":1122.927,"text":"五千九百三十六這是農地如果你種到的話但你們看一下下一張如果您是把這個原來的農地如果是因為地方的不同嘛如果是供請一千五百萬你把它拿去買台灣十年的公債"},{"start":1123.787,"end":1148.919,"text":"與美國10年的公債大概可以是24萬到66萬當然如果你買到的農地是8千萬的話那就就更多所以你就可以看到以這個數據來說如果你是農民的話你會選擇要種水稻還是乾脆賣地買公債呢所以說希望這個部分為了照顧這個因政策受損的農民行政院能否針對受限制且有實際耕作的這個農地給予對地補償"},{"start":1152.401,"end":1159.003,"text":"我們現在在做的就是對地幾戶的部分,對地幾戶的部分在從事農業的部分,我們會有個對別式。因為現在的對地補償好像只有1萬吧,相對的很低,那希望能夠提高這個對地補償。那另外再請教一下院長,就是我們現在可以看到,"},{"start":1176.147,"end":1196.539,"text":"全臺灣有6個縣市的老年人口的占比,超過20%,依序是嘉義、臺北、南投、雲林、基隆、屏東。那我們可以看到的是,現在這些縣市因為財政狀況的不同,所以說很多對老人福利都有不一樣的照顧。我們可以看到下一張,目前能夠有"},{"start":1197.84,"end":1198.361,"text":"請問院長是否同意?"},{"start":1221.216,"end":1250.276,"text":"議員報告我們現在對中低收入70歲以上以及65歲以上的老人家我們都有一些補助但是如果全面的用這樣的標準來看那必須考慮到政府的財政負擔我想這幾年其實政府都超徵了幾千億所以對於這個老人健保的部分這大概幾百億我覺得對於老人照顧真的非常重要我希望不要是因為生活在臺灣但同樣生活在臺灣卻同卡不同命"},{"start":1251.597,"end":1273.652,"text":"另外再請教一下我們的院長有關電力的問題。因為其實現在核電在今年的7月核三一號機就要停止運轉了。在明年的5月核三二號機也會停轉。請問一下我們現在其實大家都很擔心說"},{"start":1274.873,"end":1275.674,"text":"報告委員,我想我時空背景但是我沒有改變"},{"start":1303.188,"end":1330.462,"text":"但是可能是我這個之前的報告不夠精準不過我跟這個委員在這裡再報告一次我們的電是夠的怎麼夠您的這個配比然後總電量跟能源配比我們現在到2023年到2030年為止我們大概會下來700萬千瓦但是我們會上來910萬千瓦的電所以這些基載的電是夠的"},{"start":1332.264,"end":1345.334,"text":"那如果有一些這個我們大概有210萬千瓦但是我們如果做一些比較寬裕的這個假設同時有三個機組降下來的話"},{"start":1346.175,"end":1362.568,"text":"因為我們現在很多的這個能源燃料99%都是靠進口嘛那如果說因為我們現在如果是從海上進口因為天候的關係可能因為像之前大陸軍演的關係可能就也沒有辦法這個進到國內來那這樣子的話就可能造成會有缺電的問題"},{"start":1363.749,"end":1382.481,"text":"所以說這個部分我們這個能源配比是不是應該要多於更多文化那也可以設法減少對進口的依賴?是的,我們現在這個這一部分的我們有綠電在我們用風電跟光電以及除電來彌補另外一方面呢我們"},{"start":1384.122,"end":1408.955,"text":"您請問一下今年的電力夠用嗎?因為我知道你們的風電跟光電其實發電量好像都沒有達到目前的目標所以那只是一個備載的部分所以我們積載的部分還是一樣我剛才跟你們報告過了我們大概這個4年會上來914萬千瓦的電它是夠的這個我們根據這個市場上面的這一些調查"},{"start":1410.476,"end":1418.726,"text":"包括現在的AI可能會使用的對,剛剛講到AI因為現在大家事實上都在爭取AI產業到台灣來投資可是如果以現在這樣子的看來的話核能廚藝之後對於爭取AI的產業到台灣來"},{"start":1427.857,"end":1445.392,"text":"您們有信心臺灣不會缺電嗎?我們的估計是這樣的就是過去我們用成長大概1.8%的這樣的一個成長那我們因為AI所以我們把它調到大概2.92%的這個成長方式所以這個我們的估計應該是精準的"},{"start":1446.564,"end":1468.541,"text":"我想這個部分我知道部長很有信心但是外界不管是國外、國內甚至黃仁勳執行長他其實都有這樣的疑慮所以希望政府要拿出來這樣子的一個讓我們看到臺灣是不缺電的我們真正能夠發展AI產業否則的話錯誤的能源政策沒有辦法帶領臺灣在AI產業上走得更穩"},{"start":1471.483,"end":1474.144,"text":"接下來我要請教院長是社會住宅的問題就是我們可以看到就是"},{"start":1501.394,"end":1524.673,"text":"賴清德總統在競選的時候有高喊要興建社宅百萬戶,但是我們現在看到的好像是變成百萬租屋的家戶政策。院長您看一下,現在賴總統的社會住宅25萬戶,包租代管25萬戶,跟租金50萬戶,"},{"start":1526.544,"end":1526.944,"text":"這樣子的這個互數是對的嗎?"},{"start":1531.554,"end":1556.254,"text":"這是我們努力的目標。好,那您可以看得到我們那個租金補貼的部分,其實內政部到113年5月15號指,就已經核定了52萬2660戶了。也就是說,其實在你們賴總統就職前就已經有超過50萬戶的租金補貼了。那是不是代表我們這個租金補貼的50萬戶,其實你們還沒上任就已經KPI就達標了?"},{"start":1557.755,"end":1582.685,"text":"我們有討論過,請部長來說明。是,我想委員講得沒有錯,因為租金補貼它是比較快速,跟所謂的直接興建的社會住宅比較不一樣。所以呢,它確實是達到52萬戶以上。對,那就是說這個,其實你這個政策訂定的其實是等於前任的就完成了嗎?並不是現在才完成。因為它全部是社宅的租屋政策。也不是你們努力的目標嗎?它是一個package。"},{"start":1583.425,"end":1606.792,"text":"那您再看一下您剛講的這個社宅的部分喔您可以看到就是我們的這個統計表您可以往下一張就是我們現在看到的就是這是蔡政府時代的您當的25萬社宅是12萬戶是蔡政府的13萬戶是接下來賴政府你們要達成對不對可是事實上到現在蔡政府的任內還有24509戶是在規劃中的部長是嗎"},{"start":1613.972,"end":1628.122,"text":"我不曉得你講的是哪個item。就是在規劃中的有24509戶。我們的估計是到年底之前,盡量可以達到10萬戶到12萬戶。對,那就是原來的12萬戶。那25萬戶,就還有另外13萬戶的話,你們要在8年內,也就是7年內要達到,這樣有辦法做到嗎?因為過去的8年其實也只完成了大概不到10萬戶。"},{"start":1642.112,"end":1658.308,"text":"謝謝許委員的關心。我們未來會採取多元的取得土地,尤其是國公有的土地。然後我們也會跟民間企業一起來合作,他是不是也願意投入興建。那用這樣多元的方向的話,在短時間內,也就是說"},{"start":1659.329,"end":1659.369,"text":"﹚主席"},{"start":1681.101,"end":1701.852,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":1701.997,"end":1702.157,"text":"謝謝,謝謝余院長"},{"start":1724.079,"end":1740.631,"text":"另外還要再請教您一個有關NFT的部分我們之前在內政委員會在審查詐欺犯罪違害防治條例草案的時候本席有提到就是周杰倫的一個NFT的無聊員因為詐騙被騙了千萬那這樣的NFT的詐騙其實也層出不窮但是我們從我們的這個詐煩"},{"start":1745.754,"end":1746.154,"text":"新型的多樣化"},{"start":1767.805,"end":1785.997,"text":"金管會會當主管機關嗎?這件事情我們在前幾天由林鄭委員負責這個案子的協調。我們在過去行政院就已經指定了具有投資跟支付性質的NFT是屬於金管會主管。"},{"start":1786.878,"end":1788.219,"text":"謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。謝謝卓院長的備選。接下來我們請登記第43位吳宗憲委員"}]}}}}