{"id":154055,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154055","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/730d19f328ad3b923a33350a692a916fafafc43ba26a35056824d40b1933d675a515b23fefa1fd695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:08:18 - 10:20:23","影片長度":"00:12:05","會議時間":"2024-06-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、邀請國防部報告「海空戰力提升計畫採購進度及執行成效」，並備質詢。\n二、邀請國防部報告「國防部機密專案預算需求」，並備質詢。【報告秘密，詢答「先秘密、後公開」】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-17","start_time":"2024-06-17T10:08:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-17T10:20:23+08:00","duration":725,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第28次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":28,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-28"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":294,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時8分）謝謝主席，麻煩請顧部長。"],["主席：請部長，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：馬委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長，您上任以後其實有放寬了很多對於我們國軍的一些管制，還有管理、訓練等等，不過我們剛剛看到一則消息，就是有一個海軍的上兵跳船並說不想當兵了，這一則新聞不曉得部長看到了沒？"],["顧部長立雄：海軍有跟我報告了，詳細的狀況……"],["馬委員文君：目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣？"],["顧部長立雄：他自己已經游上岸了，然後……"],["馬委員文君：你知道為什麼嗎？這個應該算是志願役的，因為義務役才剛是第一天，所以不可能。以志願役來說，他過去應該也接受過訓練，發生這樣的事情，有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月，我們也積極的輔導他，其實他平常表現的部分都還算正常，但是有一些個人的小問題，我們單位也積極在輔導他。目前的實際狀況，我們要再看一下，已經跟他做輔訪，可能對他未來繼續服役，還有一些需要跟家裡面、跟單位再做溝通。"],["馬委員文君：因為已經上船四年多，老實說，他不想當兵或者發生這樣的跳船事件，這個非常嚴重，尤其會影響整個國軍的形象，所以要儘速釐清到底是什麼樣的問題，然後因為距離比較近，他還可以游回來，那如果發生在其他的狀況底下，是不是又會造成很多自傷或者其他的狀況？所以對這個部分要儘速處理，有沒有可能是刻意為之？根據你們目前掌握的訊息，這是因為他個人的因素嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：對，應該是個人因素，有關於未來服役還有他跟家裡面的互動這個部分，之後還要詳細再跟他做輔導跟確切的瞭解。"],["馬委員文君：已經四年多了，對這個部分我們還是希望透過心輔。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是。"],["馬委員文君：接下來我們請教部長，部長，在最近您說不用回報，或者像刺槍術其他這些部分都放寬以後，如果不要回報，在發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐？"],["顧部長立雄：我們希望讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律，這個是比較重要。"],["馬委員文君：對，所以要不要連坐？在過去是因為長官怕你有時候在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況，上面的人可能還要接受懲處，那既然部長要放寬，然後他又不需要回報，那這個部分需不需要一併的考量？因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定，也沒有人管他，在發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候，那要不要連坐？因為這是在外面發生的，當部長在放鬆這個的時候有沒有一併的考量這個問題？"],["顧部長立雄：是，我個人不贊成這樣的一種連坐方式，我想是不是請次長說明？"],["劉次長沛智：委員好，我是聯一次長，跟委員報告，我們整個休假是著重自主的管理，然後遇到有事情……"],["馬委員文君：沒有，你簡單說明就好了，因為你們現在放寬了嘛！"],["劉次長沛智：對，那重點事情一定要回報，我們現在是透過……"],["馬委員文君：所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況？"],["劉次長沛智：就是他在外面遇到車禍，或者是家庭有發生很大的糾紛，這些重大事情都要跟部裡面來做回報，那我們協助來處理。那我們現在的重點就是我們在離營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做……"],["馬委員文君：沒關係，我們現在只是提出來，就是當你在修正一個管理方式或政策的時候，你應該要一併的考量，今天他如果去唱KTV然後在那裡跟人家鬥毆，這樣才要回報，可是當他去一些場合的時候並沒有發生問題，像昨天有一個軍人去釣蝦場，我們也不知道原因是什麼，可是他就被刺死了！所以對於一些相關的問題，我們希望你對是否要連坐也一併的去考量，今天因為時間的關係……"],["劉次長沛智：是，很簡單地跟委員報告，就是我們一定要做離營宣教，只要幹部宣教了，我們就不會做連坐的相關處分，接下來就是他要自主管理的部分，以上報告。"],["馬委員文君：好，就這個部分，我們希望也都要一併加以考量。部長，因為我們現在還是有刺刀，那刺刀術不進行訓練，像其他國家其實還有一些戰鬥相關的、比較先進的……"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我一再的強調，傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥兩者是不同的，也就是說，我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術，現在包括槍械、包括身上所配的刺刀、包括隨手可得的任何武器、包括進行搏擊，這些都是屬於近戰格鬥的項目，這個部分我們都要維持住。"],["馬委員文君：還是會維持嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["馬委員文君：因為其實大家在聽到部長這樣說的時候，大家都會覺得說：欸！只講了前半段，後半段沒了，要不然還以為刺刀要拿來削水果。"],["顧部長立雄：因為我一直在強調傳統的刺槍術就是在那邊……我們都當過兵，我們都知道傳統的這個……"],["馬委員文君：好，就這個部分，我們當然希望它還是要完整，因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有國家的大環境其實是有風險的，我們怎麼樣加強或者更嚴謹，因為你又把法令限縮得更嚴重，可是好像在管理或其他的訓練又更鬆散。"],["顧部長立雄：就是一個實戰化、具有實用性的訓練。"],["馬委員文君：好，我們贊成與時俱進。","接下來我想要請教部長，因為剛剛有特別提到，而且在今天的報告裡面有說我們在對美採購武器裝備上面延宕的只有3案，可是這個跟我們的理解其實有非常嚴重的差距，因為去年4月蔡前總統在接見美國眾議院外委會主席的時候所講的第一句話就是：我的武器呢？其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的第一封發價書，因為包括美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面都很清楚的寫到，臺灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況，其實美方他們當時也講過，而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在臺灣的記者會中也提到，我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯高機動性多管火箭系統等等，其實那時候有高達220億美元都是延遲的，如果到目前為止，它應該算時間更長了。你不能因為把它的期程往後延，比如說，魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候，告訴大家說因為我們急需，可是它從5年變成10年，那延長到10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎？現在交貨的那個時間就沒有延宕的意思嗎？美國國、政、軍界的智庫都承認對臺軍售都有延宕，我們希望你們在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息，因為它不只3案，而且我們對美的軍售也不只18案，光是翻開預算書就看到至少有25案以上。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員簡單報告一下，就是在知會國會的程序走完了之後，那大家都希望能儘快拿到武器，可是就這一方面我們確實看到他們軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長，所以所有的國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕。但是我們最後拿到第一版發價書的時候，確實和我們原來預期的建案整規書是有落差，所以大家的印象都會覺得那他第一版的發價書……"],["馬委員文君：部長，因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了，所以我們是按我們自己的預算去看的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，那個是……"],["馬委員文君：那這個部分對我們來說就是延宕，比如說，你現在說兵凶戰危，可能很快會發生什麼樣的狀況，你從5年延到10年，你從3年延到8年，其實對我們來說都是延宕，而且到目前為止，連一個都還沒有到手。美國也很清楚地講是因為俄烏戰爭、因為疫情的關係所以延宕了，這個理由其實我們可以接受，可是對我們來說，這對我們的國防安全影響甚鉅，所以這個部分應該要據理力爭，而不是他說什麼就是什麼，而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有3案。"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒有幫他粉飾，但是委員的指教是對的，我們一定要跟他據理力爭，就是那個發價書跟他知會國會的時間，最後我們整規書的部分要跟這個發價書的期程不能夠落差太大，這一點我們一定要跟他進行溝通。"],["馬委員文君：好，部長，因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的，而不是說用其他的方式然後去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係，我就跟主席借一些時間，目前站在部長旁邊的這一位，應該很快在7月份要去接中科院的院長，是不是？媒體已經有報導了。"],["顧部長立雄：應該是。"],["馬委員文君：在今天的報告裡面有說中科院在張院長的帶領之下，尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚中科院，不管在武器裝備、在很多的研發、在各方面的計畫進程都非常的好，而且甚至還超前，那既然這麼好，為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我非常非常的肯定張院長過去相關的作為跟努力，現在我想我們還會借重他，所以我們會借重他，讓他到他在中科院裡面應該在的位置。"],["馬委員文君：好，部長，你好像不容易在這裡講清楚理由，我只是我覺得報告裡面寫的跟你在用人的狀況……"],["顧部長立雄：他還是會被我們所重用。"],["馬委員文君：未來其實還有很多要做，我們希望中科院有其存在的目的還有價值，還特別讓它法人化，有一個很重要的因素就是它不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合、延續，像當時我們飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["馬委員文君：所以我們不希望到時候可能把它弄得跟民間大家沒有辦法環環相扣，甚至把很多人力資源、很多人才、研發技術全部都把它打散掉了，這個我們以後可能還有時間再來討論。"],["顧部長立雄：好，我高度期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們。"],["馬委員文君：可是你把他擔任院長的職務拿掉啦！"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，他還會有一個更高的……"],["主席（王委員定宇）：謝謝。至少我們剛剛確認張忠誠還會有工作。","各位請回，謝謝。接下來進行詢答的委員徐巧芯委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-28","speakers":["王定宇","林楚茵","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","徐巧芯","沈伯洋","羅美玲","洪申翰","張啓楷","賴士葆","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","羅智強","李坤城","陳冠廷","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 707.29, \"end\": 707.31, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 707.31, \"end\": 707.35, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"巧\", \"start\": 707.35, \"end\": 707.431, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"欣\", \"start\": 707.431, \"end\": 707.451, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 707.451, \"end\": 707.471, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,351 --> 00:00:00,511\n請故部長請部長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:10,340 --> 00:00:29,198\n部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒\n\n3\n00:00:33,861 --> 00:00:59,118\n海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題\n\n4\n00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:17,768\n報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月。那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們也單位積極在輔導他。\n\n5\n00:01:22,232 --> 00:01:35,839\n最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看的已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船4年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來\n\n6\n00:01:48,646 --> 00:02:01,185\n如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止?\n\n7\n00:02:03,793 --> 00:02:13,202\n這是他個人的因素就是對應該是個人因素有關於未來服役跟他跟家裡面的這個互動這個部分那後面要實際上要跟詳細再跟他做輔導已經4年多然後他說他這個部分我們還是希望透過心服那接下來我們請教部長\n\n8\n00:02:22,290 --> 00:02:33,328\n因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐?\n\n9\n00:02:38,951 --> 00:02:51,854\n我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量\n\n10\n00:03:02,116 --> 00:03:24,733\n因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候也沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會\n\n11\n00:03:25,914 --> 00:03:41,559\n委員好,我是聯誼次長,跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的...沒有,簡單說就好了,因為你現在放寬了嘛對,然後重點事情一定要回報所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍\n\n12\n00:03:42,779 --> 00:04:01,670\n﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個\n\n13\n00:04:02,210 --> 00:04:02,890\n所以跟委員報告是\n\n14\n00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:45,815\n很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們\n\n15\n00:04:46,616 --> 00:05:08,297\n部長,因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦,那你刺刀術你不訓練,那總是像其他國外,它還有一些戰鬥,一些相關的,比較先進的。跟委員報告,我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥,這兩個是不同的,也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術。\n\n16\n00:05:10,219 --> 00:05:20,165\n﹏現在有包括槍械﹏包括身上所配的刺刀﹏包括隨手可得的任何武器﹏包括跟他進行搏擊﹏這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目﹏這個不如我們都要維持﹏還是會維持﹏因為其實大家聽到﹏\n\n17\n00:05:27,970 --> 00:05:38,456\n議員說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺相術就在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是\n\n18\n00:05:52,183 --> 00:05:52,323\n有說我們在對美採購的\n\n19\n00:06:41,058 --> 00:06:45,860\n其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的\n\n20\n00:07:08,571 --> 00:07:14,039\n在台灣的記者會也提到因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯、高機動多管火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概\n\n21\n00:07:25,394 --> 00:07:28,855\n如果以目前為止,它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候告訴大家說因為我們急需可是它從5年變成10年那你10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎?\n\n22\n00:07:46,900 --> 00:08:09,257\n他現在交貨的那個就沒有延宕的意思嗎所以美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息因為他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上\n\n23\n00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:28,308\n跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國衛的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到它軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕\n\n24\n00:08:30,569 --> 00:08:43,724\n但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長\n\n25\n00:08:45,526 --> 00:08:55,274\n因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手\n\n26\n00:09:08,704 --> 00:09:14,491\n所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案\n\n27\n00:09:28,687 --> 00:09:43,609\n我沒有幫他吻事但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他據理力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們要\n\n28\n00:09:43,869 --> 00:10:03,685\n市長,因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的,而不是說用其他的方式去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係,我就一點點跟主席接一些時間,因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長,是不是?媒體已經有報導了。\n\n29\n00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:37,239\n應該是因為今天的報告裡面就是說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉\n\n30\n00:10:38,684 --> 00:10:52,486\n跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定張院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會\n\n31\n00:10:54,508 --> 00:11:09,473\n拜訪他到這個：他應該有在有的位置在中科院裏面：部長你好像不容易在這裡講清楚只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用的狀況還有未來：他還是會被我們所重用未來其實還有很多\n\n32\n00:11:10,513 --> 00:11:22,646\n我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的\n\n33\n00:11:26,049 --> 00:11:26,469\n我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們\n\n34\n00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:47,471\n接下來進行詢答委員徐巧欣委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n351\t511\t請故部長請部長謝謝\n10340\t29198\t部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒\n33861\t59118\t海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題\n60710\t77768\t報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月。那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們也單位積極在輔導他。\n82232\t95839\t最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看的已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船4年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來\n108646\t121185\t如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止?\n123793\t133202\t這是他個人的因素就是對應該是個人因素有關於未來服役跟他跟家裡面的這個互動這個部分那後面要實際上要跟詳細再跟他做輔導已經4年多然後他說他這個部分我們還是希望透過心服那接下來我們請教部長\n142290\t153328\t因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐?\n158951\t171854\t我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量\n182116\t204733\t因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候也沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會\n205914\t221559\t委員好,我是聯誼次長,跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的...沒有,簡單說就好了,因為你現在放寬了嘛對,然後重點事情一定要回報所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍\n222779\t241670\t﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個\n242210\t242890\t所以跟委員報告是\n270300\t285815\t很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們\n286616\t308297\t部長,因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦,那你刺刀術你不訓練,那總是像其他國外,它還有一些戰鬥,一些相關的,比較先進的。跟委員報告,我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥,這兩個是不同的,也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術。\n310219\t320165\t﹏現在有包括槍械﹏包括身上所配的刺刀﹏包括隨手可得的任何武器﹏包括跟他進行搏擊﹏這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目﹏這個不如我們都要維持﹏還是會維持﹏因為其實大家聽到﹏\n327970\t338456\t議員說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺相術就在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是\n352183\t352323\t有說我們在對美採購的\n382005\t400435\t⋯⋯⋯⋯\n401058\t405860\t其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的\n428571\t434039\t在台灣的記者會也提到因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯、高機動多管火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概\n445394\t448855\t如果以目前為止,它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候告訴大家說因為我們急需可是它從5年變成10年那你10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎?\n466900\t489257\t他現在交貨的那個就沒有延宕的意思嗎所以美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息因為他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上\n490880\t508308\t跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國衛的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到它軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕\n510569\t523724\t但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長\n525526\t535274\t因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手\n548704\t554491\t所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案\n568687\t583609\t我沒有幫他吻事但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他據理力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們要\n583869\t603685\t市長,因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的,而不是說用其他的方式去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係,我就一點點跟主席接一些時間,因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長,是不是?媒體已經有報導了。\n613509\t637239\t應該是因為今天的報告裡面就是說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉\n638684\t652486\t跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定張院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會\n654508\t669473\t拜訪他到這個：他應該有在有的位置在中科院裏面：部長你好像不容易在這裡講清楚只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用的狀況還有未來：他還是會被我們所重用未來其實還有很多\n670513\t682646\t我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的\n686049\t686469\t我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們\n707110\t707471\t接下來進行詢答委員徐巧欣委員\n","txt":"請故部長請部長謝謝\n部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒\n海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題\n報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月。那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們也單位積極在輔導他。\n最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看的已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船4年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來\n如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止?\n這是他個人的因素就是對應該是個人因素有關於未來服役跟他跟家裡面的這個互動這個部分那後面要實際上要跟詳細再跟他做輔導已經4年多然後他說他這個部分我們還是希望透過心服那接下來我們請教部長\n因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐?\n我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量\n因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候也沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會\n委員好,我是聯誼次長,跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的...沒有,簡單說就好了,因為你現在放寬了嘛對,然後重點事情一定要回報所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍\n﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個\n所以跟委員報告是\n很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們\n部長,因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦,那你刺刀術你不訓練,那總是像其他國外,它還有一些戰鬥,一些相關的,比較先進的。跟委員報告,我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥,這兩個是不同的,也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術。\n﹏現在有包括槍械﹏包括身上所配的刺刀﹏包括隨手可得的任何武器﹏包括跟他進行搏擊﹏這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目﹏這個不如我們都要維持﹏還是會維持﹏因為其實大家聽到﹏\n議員說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺相術就在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是\n有說我們在對美採購的\n⋯⋯⋯⋯\n其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的\n在台灣的記者會也提到因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯、高機動多管火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概\n如果以目前為止,它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候告訴大家說因為我們急需可是它從5年變成10年那你10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎?\n他現在交貨的那個就沒有延宕的意思嗎所以美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息因為他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上\n跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國衛的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到它軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕\n但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長\n因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手\n所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案\n我沒有幫他吻事但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他據理力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們要\n市長,因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的,而不是說用其他的方式去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係,我就一點點跟主席接一些時間,因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長,是不是?媒體已經有報導了。\n應該是因為今天的報告裡面就是說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉\n跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定張院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會\n拜訪他到這個：他應該有在有的位置在中科院裏面：部長你好像不容易在這裡講清楚只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用的狀況還有未來：他還是會被我們所重用未來其實還有很多\n我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的\n我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們\n接下來進行詢答委員徐巧欣委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.351 --> 00:00.511\n請故部長請部長謝謝\n\n00:10.340 --> 00:29.198\n部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒\n\n00:33.861 --> 00:59.118\n海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題\n\n01:00.710 --> 01:17.768\n報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月。那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們也單位積極在輔導他。\n\n01:22.232 --> 01:35.839\n最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看的已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船4年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來\n\n01:48.646 --> 02:01.185\n如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止?\n\n02:03.793 --> 02:13.202\n這是他個人的因素就是對應該是個人因素有關於未來服役跟他跟家裡面的這個互動這個部分那後面要實際上要跟詳細再跟他做輔導已經4年多然後他說他這個部分我們還是希望透過心服那接下來我們請教部長\n\n02:22.290 --> 02:33.328\n因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐?\n\n02:38.951 --> 02:51.854\n我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量\n\n03:02.116 --> 03:24.733\n因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候也沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會\n\n03:25.914 --> 03:41.559\n委員好,我是聯誼次長,跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的...沒有,簡單說就好了,因為你現在放寬了嘛對,然後重點事情一定要回報所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍\n\n03:42.779 --> 04:01.670\n﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個\n\n04:02.210 --> 04:02.890\n所以跟委員報告是\n\n04:30.300 --> 04:45.815\n很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們\n\n04:46.616 --> 05:08.297\n部長,因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦,那你刺刀術你不訓練,那總是像其他國外,它還有一些戰鬥,一些相關的,比較先進的。跟委員報告,我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥,這兩個是不同的,也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術。\n\n05:10.219 --> 05:20.165\n﹏現在有包括槍械﹏包括身上所配的刺刀﹏包括隨手可得的任何武器﹏包括跟他進行搏擊﹏這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目﹏這個不如我們都要維持﹏還是會維持﹏因為其實大家聽到﹏\n\n05:27.970 --> 05:38.456\n議員說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺相術就在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是\n\n05:52.183 --> 05:52.323\n有說我們在對美採購的\n\n06:41.058 --> 06:45.860\n其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的\n\n07:08.571 --> 07:14.039\n在台灣的記者會也提到因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯、高機動多管火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概\n\n07:25.394 --> 07:28.855\n如果以目前為止,它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候告訴大家說因為我們急需可是它從5年變成10年那你10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎?\n\n07:46.900 --> 08:09.257\n他現在交貨的那個就沒有延宕的意思嗎所以美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息因為他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上\n\n08:10.880 --> 08:28.308\n跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國衛的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到它軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕\n\n08:30.569 --> 08:43.724\n但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長\n\n08:45.526 --> 08:55.274\n因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手\n\n09:08.704 --> 09:14.491\n所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案\n\n09:28.687 --> 09:43.609\n我沒有幫他吻事但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他據理力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們要\n\n09:43.869 --> 10:03.685\n市長,因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的,而不是說用其他的方式去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係,我就一點點跟主席接一些時間,因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長,是不是?媒體已經有報導了。\n\n10:13.509 --> 10:37.239\n應該是因為今天的報告裡面就是說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉\n\n10:38.684 --> 10:52.486\n跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定張院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會\n\n10:54.508 --> 11:09.473\n拜訪他到這個：他應該有在有的位置在中科院裏面：部長你好像不容易在這裡講清楚只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用的狀況還有未來：他還是會被我們所重用未來其實還有很多\n\n11:10.513 --> 11:22.646\n我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的\n\n11:26.049 --> 11:26.469\n我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們\n\n11:47.110 --> 11:47.471\n接下來進行詢答委員徐巧欣委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.351,"end":0.511,"text":"請故部長請部長謝謝"},{"start":10.34,"end":29.198,"text":"部長您上任以後其實有放寬了很多的一些對於我們國軍的一些管制還有包括管理訓練等等不過我們剛剛看到一則消息就是有一個海軍的上兵他跳船說不想當兵了這個新聞部長不曉得看到了沒"},{"start":33.861,"end":59.118,"text":"海軍有跟我報告了那他目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣已經上岸他自己游上岸了知道為什麼嗎因為你今天這個應該算是志願役的因為義務役才剛第一天不可能所以以志願役他過去其實應該也接受過訓練那發生這樣的事情有沒有初步掌握是什麼樣的問題"},{"start":60.71,"end":77.768,"text":"報告委員,他是108年上船到現在將近快4年7個月到8個月。那我們也積極的輔導他,那他其實平常表現的部分都還算正常,但是有一些個人一些的一個小問題,那我們也單位積極在輔導他。"},{"start":82.232,"end":95.839,"text":"最近的話目前的實際狀況我們要再看的已經跟他做服訪可能對他的未來的繼續服役他有一些需要再跟家裡面跟單位再做溝通因為已經上船4年多老實說你說他不想當兵或者發生這樣跳船的事件這個非常嚴重尤其對於整個國軍的形象所以儘速可以釐清到底是什麼樣的問題然後因為他是比較近還可以有回來"},{"start":108.646,"end":121.185,"text":"如果發生在其他的狀況底下是不是又會有造成很多智商或者什麼其他的狀況這個部分競速有沒有可能是刻意為止?"},{"start":123.793,"end":133.202,"text":"這是他個人的因素就是對應該是個人因素有關於未來服役跟他跟家裡面的這個互動這個部分那後面要實際上要跟詳細再跟他做輔導已經4年多然後他說他這個部分我們還是希望透過心服那接下來我們請教部長"},{"start":142.29,"end":153.328,"text":"因為部長我們最近在您說不用回報或者像刺槍術啊其他的這些部分都放寬以後那如果不要回報發生重大問題的時候還要不要連坐?"},{"start":158.951,"end":171.854,"text":"我們希望我們讓官兵能夠掌握他自己的自律這個是比較重要所以要不要連坐因為過去是因為長官就是怕說你有時候你在外面發生了什麼樣的狀況那上面的可能還要接受懲處那既然你要放寬然後他又不需要回報那這個部分需不需要一併的考量"},{"start":182.116,"end":204.733,"text":"因為他如果在外面都必須自律然後自己去做決定的時候也沒有人管他發生問題或者發生重大案件的時候那要不要連坐因為在外面發生我個人是部長有沒有一併的考量因為當你在放鬆這個的時候我個人不贊成這樣子的一種連坐的方式我想是不是特別所以連坐還是會"},{"start":205.914,"end":221.559,"text":"委員好,我是聯誼次長,跟委員報告我們整個休假在著重自主的管理然後遇到有事情的...沒有,簡單說就好了,因為你現在放寬了嘛對,然後重點事情一定要回報所謂的重點事情大概是什麼樣的狀況就是說他在外面遇到車禍"},{"start":222.779,"end":241.67,"text":" ﹏或是說發生跟家庭有很大糾紛﹏這些重大的事情還要跟部的來做回報﹏那我們協助來處理﹏那我們現在的重點就是在理營宣教﹏我們在理營宣教的時候會跟所有的官兵弟兄講清楚哪些可以做﹏沒關係,因為我們現在只是提出來就是說當你在修正一個"},{"start":242.21,"end":242.89,"text":"所以跟委員報告是"},{"start":270.3,"end":285.815,"text":"很簡單跟委員報告就是你宣教我們一定要宣教只要幹部宣教了我們就不會做連做相關的處分那接下來他就是自主管理的部分以上報告好就這個部分我們希望他都是有一併的一些考量因為我們"},{"start":286.616,"end":308.297,"text":"部長,因為我們現在還是有刺刀啦,那你刺刀術你不訓練,那總是像其他國外,它還有一些戰鬥,一些相關的,比較先進的。跟委員報告,我一再的強調傳統的刺槍術跟近戰的格鬥,這兩個是不同的,也就是說我們要去除的是表演性質的刺槍術。"},{"start":310.219,"end":320.165,"text":" ﹏現在有包括槍械﹏包括身上所配的刺刀﹏包括隨手可得的任何武器﹏包括跟他進行搏擊﹏這個都屬於近戰格鬥的項目﹏這個不如我們都要維持﹏還是會維持﹏因為其實大家聽到﹏"},{"start":327.97,"end":338.456,"text":"議員說出來的時候大家都會覺得說只講了前半段後半段沒了不然還以為刺刀要拿來消水因為我一直一直在強調說你傳統的刺相術就在那邊這個我們都當過兵我們都知道傳統的這個就這個部分我們當然還是希望他還是要有一個完整的因為畢竟我們現在整個政策還有現在國家的大環境其實是"},{"start":352.183,"end":352.323,"text":"有說我們在對美採購的"},{"start":382.005,"end":400.435,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":401.058,"end":405.86,"text":"其實我們所有的延宕並不是像剛剛講的說第一封的發架書因為有很多包括我們在美國國防新聞週刊還有華爾街日報的報導裡面其實都很清楚的寫到台灣軍方向美國下單採購的武器裝備面臨延遲交貨的狀況這個美方其實他們當時也講過而且包括AIT的處長在最後一次在台的"},{"start":428.571,"end":434.039,"text":"在台灣的記者會也提到因為我們不管是刺針飛彈、魚叉飛彈、重型魚雷、海馬斯、高機動多管火箭系統等等其實它那時候高達220億美元都是延遲的所以其實大概"},{"start":445.394,"end":448.855,"text":"如果以目前為止,它應該算時間更長了你不能因為把它的期程往後延比如說魚叉飛彈那時候用戰備急需在編預算的時候告訴大家說因為我們急需可是它從5年變成10年那你10年就變成它沒有延宕的意思嗎?"},{"start":466.9,"end":489.257,"text":"他現在交貨的那個就沒有延宕的意思嗎所以美國的國政軍界智庫都承認對台軍售都有延宕我們希望在國會的時候是給大家更正確的訊息因為他不只3案而且我們對美軍售也不只18案少說光從預算書翻開至少25案以上"},{"start":490.88,"end":508.308,"text":"跟委員報告簡單報告一下就是說智慧國衛的程序完之後那大家都希望盡快的拿到武器可是就這方面我們確實是看到它軍售的交貨期程明顯的拉長所以才所有的這個國會議員或者是媒體跟智庫都會把這種現象視為延宕"},{"start":510.569,"end":523.724,"text":"但是呢我們最後拿到這個第一版的發價書的時候他確實就我們原來預期的一件案的整歸數是有落差所以大家都會印象上會覺得說那他的第一版的發價書部長"},{"start":525.526,"end":535.274,"text":"因為我們在編預算的時候他已經把期程寫出來了所以我們是按我們自己的預算上面下去看的那這個部分對我們來說它就是延宕比如說你現在說兵凶戰危很快可能會發生什麼樣的狀況你從5年延到10年你從3年延到8年其實對我們來說都是延宕而且到目前為止連一個都還沒有到手"},{"start":548.704,"end":554.491,"text":"所以因為美國也很清楚的講到說因為俄烏戰爭因為疫情的關係所以他延宕這個理由其實我們是可以接受可是對我們來說對我們的國防安全影響甚具這個部分應該要據理力爭而不是他說什麼就什麼而且我們在這裡還幫他粉飾說我們延宕的只有三案"},{"start":568.687,"end":583.609,"text":"我沒有幫他吻事但是委員的指教是對的我們一定要跟他據理力爭就是說那個發家書跟他智慧國會那最後我們整歸師的部分要跟這個發家書的這個期程不能夠落差太大這一點我們要"},{"start":583.869,"end":603.685,"text":"市長,因為我們希望給我們看的報告是正確的,而不是說用其他的方式去做一些轉換。因為時間的關係,我就一點點跟主席接一些時間,因為目前站在部長旁邊的這一位很快應該7月份想要去接中科院的院長,是不是?媒體已經有報導了。"},{"start":613.509,"end":637.239,"text":"應該是因為今天的報告裡面就是說中科院在張院長的帶領之下尤其我們的蔡前總統其實也一直稱讚說我們中科院不管在武器裝備在很多的研發不管在各方面的一個計畫進程都非常的好而且甚至還超前那既然這麼好為什麼他第二任的任期還有一年半就要把他換掉"},{"start":638.684,"end":652.486,"text":"跟委員報告我想我非常非常的肯定張院長的過去的相關的這個作為跟努力那現在我想他還會我們還會借重他所以我們會"},{"start":654.508,"end":669.473,"text":"拜訪他到這個：他應該有在有的位置在中科院裏面：部長你好像不容易在這裡講清楚只是因為我覺得說報告跟你在用的狀況還有未來：他還是會被我們所重用未來其實還有很多"},{"start":670.513,"end":682.646,"text":"我們希望中科院存在的目的還有價值還特別給他法人化很重要的一個因素是因為他不管是研發人才還有核心技術都可以整合延續當時我們的飛彈的經驗就是這樣來的"},{"start":686.049,"end":686.469,"text":"我高度的期待張院長繼續在中科院幫忙我們"},{"start":707.11,"end":707.471,"text":"接下來進行詢答委員徐巧欣委員"}]}}}}