{"id":154084,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154084","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/237480b52e5f529a7405374fdefd70aa84a337f76c37b5ea00e1aec3d2490a34b5c97df5e7f71b625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"16:33:29 - 16:49:14","影片長度":"00:15:45","會議時間":"2024-06-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第18次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月18日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-18","start_time":"2024-06-18T16:33:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-18T16:49:14+08:00","duration":945,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議","id":"院會-11-1-18","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":320,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（16時33分）謝謝院長，首先請卓院長。"],["主席：再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：何委員好。"],["何委員欣純：卓院長好。首先先跟你加油，還有很多很大的挑戰在面前。"],["卓院長榮泰：大家加油！"],["何委員欣純：對於這一次的國會擴權法案，政院已經提出覆議，明天立法院就要進行質詢，不知道卓院長的期待如何？因為之前你曾經指出你比較樂觀。"],["卓院長榮泰：我必須樂觀啊！因為我相信每個委員都是經過選民選上來的，應該都有民主的DNA，都有民主的嚮往，希望透過民主的程序，再讓大院來討論、審視每一個我們認為窒礙難行的條文內容，我覺得這就是一個民主的機會，再次的審視，再次有機會重新看看能不能讓社會也接受，我們來執行起來也沒有窒礙難行。"],["何委員欣純：你說過要透過這個過程讓人民好好知道、理解，民主最寶貴的地方也就在這裡。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["何委員欣純：所以我也希望接下來這兩天立法院有關覆議案的質詢能夠順利，我也希望禮拜五的覆議案能夠成功。"],["卓院長榮泰：還要加油！"],["何委員欣純：我們還必須要再加油，因為還有很大的挑戰在面前。我為什麼會提到這個？因為在國會擴權法案通過之後，監察院也發出嚴正聲明，表示這個法案違反權力分立，也違反目前五權憲法的架構。行政院提出覆議的理由也有提到，這一次國會擴權，啟動調查或依照其他相關法條裡面的要求，會變成清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍，也就是我剛剛說的，這一次的國會擴權法案挑戰了目前五權憲法的權力分立原則……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["何委員欣純：破壞了這樣的原則，所以行政院覆議的理由有提到這件事。我請教院長，你會建議監察院也去釋憲嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這當然是監察院的憲法職權，五院的體制要維持下去，每個院的職責要非常清楚，而且互相的搭配，互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責，但是我們還有司法權、監察權，各司不同的憲法職務，尤其是司法權，任何人都不是法官，只有法官、檢察官才是司法官，他們所做的事情就單純是司法人該做的事情，而不是拿到這裡用表決的方式，決定一個人該不該被移送或一個人該不該被處罰鍰，這不是用表決的方式來達成的。"],["何委員欣純：還有一個人能不能請律師，這個也很重要，這關乎人權。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["何委員欣純：我的意思是說，對於這一次的覆議案，當然我們希望樂觀看待它能夠過關，這是人民的意志，人民成功展現相當大的民意。如果不能過關，接下來的下一步就是釋憲，當然啦，行政院有權力，至於監察院，你剛剛說了，本於其職責，那是它的權責，是不是要提出釋憲，我覺得多方提出釋憲也不失為一個實踐臺灣民主的過程，對不對？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：也表示我們在遵守憲法、捍衛憲法，維護這個五院體制。"],["何委員欣純：好，謝謝。院長，我們還必須要再加油。","接下來我關心的是之前其他委員也曾經關心過的，不僅僅是人要有食安，寵物也有食安，寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的注目，過去曾經有狗飼料出問題，最近則是貓飼料出問題，院長你知道這件事嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，大家把寵物當成生活的陪伴，對於他們的照顧就應該要多一點，所以我們認為動保法裡面的專章要儘快的……"],["何委員欣純：對，你曾經回答說未來動保法要有專章來規定寵物的管理，現在還沒有動保法專章，行政院院版還沒有送到立院，年底嘛，對不對？在還沒有的情況之下，現在貓飼料出問題了，我們如何管？上一次所謂的倍力跟貓侍都出現了飼料上的危機，有飼主反映貓咪吃完後出現低血鉀或身體不適等狀況，這個事件是不是請陳部長能簡單報告一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們應該有行政措施可以救濟。"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員關心有關於寵物食品的議題，未來我們對於整個食品會有專法，專法包括整個食品從進口以後的追溯，整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理。現階段，我們現在針對有關於飼料本身的病源、微生物及有害物質，有一個鑑定方法跟標準……"],["何委員欣純：有一個鑑定的方法、有標準？"],["陳部長駿季：對，有這樣的標準的話，我們就會查核，過往一年大概只查100件左右，從今年開始，現在就已經開始了，我們會加倍到300到500件，到現在為止已經抽了大概一百十多件，到目前為止……"],["何委員欣純：所以要加倍抽檢、抽查？"],["陳部長駿季：大概3倍。"],["何委員欣純：3倍以上，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["何委員欣純：請問一下，我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件，你們如何處理？第二個，聽說飼主自行檢驗飼料，有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃麴毒素，這個有相關法規嗎？有相關標準嗎？我們可以處理嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有標準，但是因為您說的那個部分是他在FB……"],["何委員欣純：有去瞭解嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有去瞭解，但是他在FB裡面只是PO說有檢測到本身，因為這都有相關的最低容許量。我也跟委員報告，我們檢測了一百多件，所有相關的寵物飼料食品都沒有超過任何的安全標準。"],["何委員欣純：到目前為止，你們抽檢的都沒有超過？"],["陳部長駿季：對，原來那些疑似引起低血鉀症的飼料經過我們的檢查，他的飼料也沒問題，我們也召開了專家會議，專家會議說……"],["何委員欣純：你們檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果，第一個當然要公告周知，第二個，你們有跟這位飼主聯繫嗎？有去查清楚、弄清楚雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡嗎？因為我們官方這邊檢驗出來是說沒有問題，但是飼主卻說有問題。如果我們沒有辦法把它釐清楚、說明清楚的話，資訊的落差或者是檢驗結果不一樣，會造成所有貓飼主們人心惶惶，讓大家不安心，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解，我跟委員說明，針對當初那個飼主本身的低血鉀報告正本，我們召開了專家會議，專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能，他們的結論是有可能是因為飼料造成，因為飼料裡面鉀的含量是有超過標準的，但是相對的還有其他的原因，所以綜合判斷低血鉀症是由非常多因素造成的，不能完全歸責於某一……"],["何委員欣純：不能歸責於可能是飼料出問題，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["何委員欣純：我覺得對這個部分應該要更用力的說明跟澄清。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們……"],["何委員欣純：必須要讓飼主們安心，因為在現今臺灣社會，我相信不分年齡層，關於寵物這個議題，我們在動保法等相關法律的規範，每一條生命都是無價的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["何委員欣純：所以我們也希望我們的政府能夠積極、有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理寵物產業，包括牠的食品，包括其他附屬的一些東西。我覺得這個問題已經談了好多年，政府可不可以加快腳步？"],["陳部長駿季：對，這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章，特別去做相關的規範。"],["何委員欣純：部長，我要提醒你，本來說要有一個寵物的管理專法，在你兩年前成立寵物管理科的時候就在講了，可是拖了兩年，到現在發現不行了，我們等不到專法，那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責……"],["陳部長駿季：專章。"],["何委員欣純：但是你又說要到年底，可不可以儘快？"],["陳部長駿季：會儘快。"],["何委員欣純：因為要趁這個機會建立相關的寵物管理制度，包括牠的食品、相關的附屬產品，我覺得這關乎千千萬萬在養寵物的人。"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解。"],["何委員欣純：大家都非常關心我們寵物的健康跟相關的事務，所以這個很重要，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們在下個會期一定會提出來。"],["何委員欣純：在下個會期提出？"],["陳部長駿季：一定會提出來。"],["何委員欣純：你說下個會期會提出來，我們就等著您提出來，我們好好的來討論。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["何委員欣純：因為根據我們農業部的報告，寵物相關產業的產值高達五、六百億，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["何委員欣純：而且相關的從業人員也很多，養寵物的人更多，甚至臺灣在這一方面，就我知道的，在中小企業裡面就寵物相關產品的產業鏈也非常的完整，如果我們可以制定好寵物管理的專章，也把管理的制度建置好，那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌，然後協助這些廠商外銷出口？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進，在法源的部分會努力。"],["何委員欣純：好，部長，再拜託你好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好，沒問題。"],["何委員欣純：接下來我要問院長，講到產業，最近大家都在談AI、半導體，真的是很夯、很好喔！尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業，但是我還是必須跟院長請命，傳產、中小企業不管是業者或是勞工朋友都很辛苦，都在努力生存。我上次也跟你提過，這兩年多以來傳統產業的景氣一直很不好，甚至到今年年底會不會好，大家也不知道，看不到春天。這部分，我們政府有什麼樣的因應機制？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道委員所在的選區─臺中我們傳產的重鎮，其中也不乏很多隱形冠軍在裡面……"],["何委員欣純：對。也很多。"],["卓院長榮泰：他們支撐了臺灣很長時間的經濟發展。現在我們朝高科技發展的情況底下，我們一直講說數位轉型也不能忽略了這些中小微企業跟傳統產業，我們對高科技的很多補助是因應高科技整個快速發展，但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力，甚至把數位科技引進傳產的管理上面來，這一點我想國發會、國科會，還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。"],["何委員欣純：院長，你講得很好，但是我要提醒一件事情，不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，瞭解，那需要很多的投入。"],["何委員欣純：我們要非常仔細的去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自臺中的選區，臺中市的機械業、汽車五金零件、手工具零件，還有工具機等等，並不是它的每一個製程裡面的每一個環節都可以數位化、自動化，在不行的情況之下，我們政府又該如何去幫忙他們？所以，我認為數位化是一個趨勢，智能化是一個趨勢，但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起，那不是我們政府用喊的就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們，也要公司、工廠有資本、有能力再投入，這個投入是一筆錢，這一筆錢要如何再由政府來協助他們，這個才是重點。","第一個是資源的成本問題；第二個，人的問題。在傳產各行各業的每一個製程裡面，我也希望自動化、智能化，但是系統整合的人在哪裡？我們有沒有去盤點過？我們過去常常在喊，要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化，所以要工業4.0，但是我不知道部長跟主委知不知道，全臺灣這麼多的中小企業裡面，傳統產業的各行各業，甚至加工體系的每一個環節裡面，到底有多少可以如您所說的可以做得到？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請主委回答。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告一下，這幾個企業我最近都開始在接觸，以工具機來講，它最大的困境是規模小，很多在10億以下，它面對國外在國際競爭的時候遇到困難，所以我們現在從幾個方面著手。第一個是從效率面，它的資本效率方面，我們希望協助他們成立控股公司，就是公司可以保留原樣，但是在後臺運作可控股。我舉個例子，很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點，它有兩萬多顆螺絲，但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲，是因為它們不懂得效率去共用零件，所以我們就會協助它共用零件，然後共用採購、共用資本。另外，在創新創意方面，我們會引導創新創業的人才，進到這個地方來幫忙它做自動化的部分。這個是由國發基金……"],["何委員欣純：主委，我知道政府有這些措施，但是我要求你去盤點一下，政府的措施到底有幫助到多少你所說的中小企業？以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話，有多少間公司，而這些公司在整體的比例又是占多少？我為什麼會提醒你這一點？我這個頁面最重要的一句話，中小企業數百萬家，中小企業傳統產業照顧在地的就業人口、在地的勞工超過九百萬人，這些人背後都代表一個家庭，這些家庭都仰賴這些在地的傳統產業、中小企業甚至微型加工廠、微型產業，我希望政府要照顧得到他們，看得到他們。拜託。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。也跟委員報告，我跟他們有約，這個會期一結束，我們就會在中部開始密集的接觸，做進一步的盤點。"],["何委員欣純：好。謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第55號陳玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":200,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","廖偉翔","林楚茵","陳超明","王世堅","李彥秀","陳雪生","蔡易餘","林岱樺","林沛祥","牛煦庭","何欣純","陳玉珍","陳菁徽"],"page_start":105,"meetingDate":["2024-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1135701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135701_00004","1135701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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00:01:47,372\n成功這個我們還必須要再加油因為還有很大的挑戰在面前那為什麼會提到這個因為在這個國會擴權法案通過之後監察院也發出嚴正的聲明說這個法案是違反了這個權利分立也違反了目前的五權憲法的一個架構\n\n6\n00:02:00,956 --> 00:02:07,165\n那所以在我們行政院提出副議的理由有提到這一次的國會擴選裡面有關的一些包括啟動調查或者是啟發相關的一些法條裡面的要求\n\n7\n00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:40,050\n會變成是如果清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍也就是我剛剛說的這一次國會擴權法案是挑戰了目前的五權憲法權力分立的原則破壞了這樣子的原則所以在我們行政院的復議的理由有提到這件事那我請教院長你會建議監察院也去提事線嗎\n\n8\n00:02:41,432 --> 00:03:02,313\n當然是監察院的憲法職權,但是五院的體制要維持下去,就是每個院的職責要非常的清楚,而且互相的搭配,互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責,但是我們還有司法權、監察權各司不同的憲法的職務,尤其是司法權。\n\n9\n00:03:22,096 --> 00:03:22,116\n﹚國務委員\n\n10\n00:03:40,257 --> 00:03:41,839\n也表示我們在遵守憲法,捍衛憲法,維護這個五院體制。\n\n11\n00:03:59,301 --> 00:04:27,796\n好謝謝院長這個我們還必須要再加油接下來我關心的是之前其他委員曾經也關心過的這個不僅僅是人要有食安那寵物也有食安那寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的一個注目那過去曾經有狗的飼料出問題那現在最近有貓的飼料出問題院長你知道這一件事對不對\n\n12\n00:04:28,855 --> 00:04:43,900\n對我覺得這個對寵物大家把他當作生活的陪伴對他的照顧應該要多一點所以我們認為這個動保法裡面的專章啊對你曾經回答說我們未來動保法的專章要來談這個寵物的管理嘛那現在在還沒有動保法的專章\n\n13\n00:04:45,380 --> 00:05:06,844\n行政院院板還沒送到立法院嘛年底嘛對不對那還沒有的情況之下那現在貓飼料出問題了我們如何管上一次所謂的貝利跟這個貓飼都出現了這個飼料上的一個危機那有市主就反映貓咪吃完之後出現的這個低血價或者是身體不適等這個狀況那這個事件是不是請我們陳部長可以來簡單檢調報告一下\n\n14\n00:05:12,285 --> 00:05:37,533\n非常謝謝委員關心這個有關於寵物食品的議題那現在跟我們整個的未來的食品會有一個專法專法包括整個食品的從進口以後的追溯整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理那現階段我們現在有針對有關於飼料本身的這些病原及微生物還有它有害物質有一個鑑定的方法有一個鑑定的方法有標準\n\n15\n00:05:38,213 --> 00:05:52,402\n對,然後有這樣的標準的話我們就會查核那過往我們大概一年只查100件左右我們現在今年開始就已經開始我們會加倍到300件到500件那到現在為止已經抽了大概110多件\n\n16\n00:05:52,987 --> 00:06:21,537\n所以要加倍抽檢大概三倍大概三倍三倍以上對不對那請問一下那我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件那我們如何處理那第二個聽說事主自行的去檢驗飼料有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃毒橘素那這個有相關的法規嗎有相關的標準嗎我們可以處理嗎我們有標準但是因為您說的那個部分是他大概有去了解嗎沒有\n\n17\n00:06:21,977 --> 00:06:22,858\n目前為止你抽驗的抽檢的都沒有超過?\n\n18\n00:06:44,751 --> 00:07:02,249\n對那原來那個低血症的那些飼料的部分經我們檢查他的飼料也沒問題那我們也召開了專家會議那專家會議說那你有就這個你們的檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果有第一個當然要公告了公告周知第二個\n\n19\n00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:14,565\n有跟這位這個事主有聯繫嗎?有去查清楚弄清楚這雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡?因為我們這邊官方檢驗出來是說沒有問題。但是事主\n\n20\n00:07:18,630 --> 00:07:21,891\n我跟委員說明就是他當初那個事主本身的低血鉀正本那我們開了專家會議那專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能因為他的結論說\n\n21\n00:07:46,900 --> 00:08:08,403\n因為飾料有可能造成但是飾料裡面的甲它的含量是有超過標準的所以相對還有其他的原因那綜合的判斷說低血甲症它是由非常多的因素而造成的不能完全規則於某一種不能規則於就是可能是飾料出問題是不是那我覺得這個部分我覺得應該要\n\n22\n00:08:09,404 --> 00:08:15,509\n我相信不分年齡層那寵物呢這個議題或是這個在動保法裡面我們相關法律規範的這個每一條生命都是無價的\n\n23\n00:08:31,302 --> 00:08:49,892\n所以我們也希望這個寵物產業在我們政府能夠積極有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理包括他的食品包括他其他的附屬的一些東西我覺得這個已經談了好多年了我希望政府可不可以加快腳步\n\n24\n00:08:50,512 --> 00:09:14,545\n對這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章來特別去做相關的規範。部長我要提醒你喔本來說是要寵物的一個管理專法在你兩年前成立的這個寵物管理科的時候就在講了拖了兩年到現在呢發現不行了我們等不到專法那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責的篇幅\n\n25\n00:09:17,046 --> 00:09:44,993\n但是呢你又說要到年底那我希望呢可不可以盡快盡快因為呢趁這個機會把相關的這個寵物的一個管理制度包括他的食品相關的東西附屬產品我覺得這個是關乎了很多千千萬萬在養寵物的人這個我們人民大家是非常關心我們的寵物的這個健康跟相關的一個事務啦所以這很重要啦好不好\n\n26\n00:09:45,594 --> 00:09:46,857\n我們在下個會期一定會提出\n\n27\n00:09:50,652 --> 00:10:18,755\n下個會期提出我們就等著您提出我們好好的來討論因為據說寵物的這個相關的這個產業的產值高達五六百億這個也是看我們農業部的報告的是不是而且相關的從業人員也很多養寵物的人更多甚至台灣在這一方面就我知道的中小企業裡面就寵物的相關產品的一個產業鏈也非常的完整\n\n28\n00:10:19,255 --> 00:10:33,588\n那如果說我們可以把這個寵物管理的這個專章如果制定好管理的制度也把它建制好那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌協助這些廠商外銷出口\n\n29\n00:10:34,304 --> 00:10:40,989\n對,我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進。是不是?好,部長再拜託你好不好講。接下來我要問院長,講到產業,我們最近大家都在談AI半導體很好,尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業,但是我必須還是要跟院長請命,\n\n30\n00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:57,501\n我知道委員所在的選區臺中\n\n31\n00:11:26,135 --> 00:11:26,195\n﹚主席\n\n32\n00:11:49,963 --> 00:12:00,513\n因應高科技整個發展的快速但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力甚至把科技引進數位引進到這個傳產的管理上面來那這一點我想\n\n33\n00:12:02,244 --> 00:12:23,659\n國發會、國科會、還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。來,院長,你講得很好。但是我要提醒一件事情。不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化。我們要非常仔細地去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自的選區台中。台中市的這個機械業、汽車、五金融、\n\n34\n00:12:45,323 --> 00:13:05,773\n我認為數位化是一個趨勢,智能化是一個趨勢,但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起,那不是政府用花就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們,也要公司、工廠他們有資本、有能力再投入,這投入是一筆錢,這一筆錢如何再由政府來協助他們,這個才是重點。第一個是\n\n35\n00:13:14,117 --> 00:13:37,837\n之遠的成本的問題。第二個,人的問題。各行各業在傳產的每一個製程裡面,我也希望自動化、智能化。但是呢,系統整合的人在哪裡?我們有沒有去盤點過?我們過去常常在喊要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化,所以呢要工業4.0。但是,\n\n36\n00:13:39,739 --> 00:13:40,099\n我請主委回答\n\n37\n00:13:59,315 --> 00:14:23,564\n跟委員報告一下,因為這些企業我最近都開始有在接觸以工具機來講,它最大的困境是規模小,很多在10億以下它面對國際競爭的時候,它遇到困難所以我們現在從幾個方面,第一個是從效率面它的資本效率,就是我們希望協助他們成立控股公司就是公司可以保留原樣,但是在後台運作可控股我舉個例子\n\n38\n00:14:24,264 --> 00:14:46,787\n很多大廠、很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點它有2萬多顆螺絲但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲是因為他們不懂得效率去共用零件那我們就會協助他共用零件然後共用採購共用資本另外我們在創新創業會引導創新創業的人才進到這個地方來幫忙做它的自動化的部分\n\n39\n00:14:47,447 --> 00:15:14,640\n主委我知道政府有這些措施但是我會要求你去盤點一下政府的這些措施到底呢有幫助到多少的中小企業您所說的以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話有多少間公司而這些的公司的在整體的比例又是佔多少我會提醒你這一點是什麼我這個頁面最重要的一句話中小企業數百萬家就業人口因為中小企業傳統產業照顧\n\n40\n00:15:16,561 --> 00:15:17,682\n我希望政府要照顧得到他們\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13291\t18662\t好謝謝院長我們是不是首先先請我們卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n29355\t55760\t陳委員好卓院長好首先先跟你加油還有很多很大的挑戰在面前那我想這一次的國會擴權法案我們政院已經提出副議那明天立法院就要進行質詢不知道卓院長的期待如何因為之前你曾經指出你比較樂觀我必須樂觀因為我相信每個委員都是經過選民選上來的\n58119\t81254\t應該都有民主的DNA,都有民主的向往,那希望透過民主的程序再讓大院來討論、審視每一個我們認為自愛難行的條文的內容。我覺得這就是一個民主的機會,再次的審視,那再次的能夠有機會重新再看看能不能讓社會也接受,那我們來執行起來也沒有自愛難行。\n82008\t99349\t你說過要透過這個過程讓人民好好的知道、理解。民主最寶貴的地方也就是在這裡。所以我也希望接下來兩天的立法院有關復議案的質詢能夠順利。我也希望禮拜五的復議案能夠\n100430\t107372\t成功這個我們還必須要再加油因為還有很大的挑戰在面前那為什麼會提到這個因為在這個國會擴權法案通過之後監察院也發出嚴正的聲明說這個法案是違反了這個權利分立也違反了目前的五權憲法的一個架構\n120956\t127165\t那所以在我們行政院提出副議的理由有提到這一次的國會擴選裡面有關的一些包括啟動調查或者是啟發相關的一些法條裡面的要求\n136196\t160050\t會變成是如果清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍也就是我剛剛說的這一次國會擴權法案是挑戰了目前的五權憲法權力分立的原則破壞了這樣子的原則所以在我們行政院的復議的理由有提到這件事那我請教院長你會建議監察院也去提事線嗎\n161432\t182313\t當然是監察院的憲法職權,但是五院的體制要維持下去,就是每個院的職責要非常的清楚,而且互相的搭配,互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責,但是我們還有司法權、監察權各司不同的憲法的職務,尤其是司法權。\n183592\t202056\t⋯⋯⋯\n202096\t202116\t﹚國務委員\n220257\t221839\t也表示我們在遵守憲法,捍衛憲法,維護這個五院體制。\n239301\t267796\t好謝謝院長這個我們還必須要再加油接下來我關心的是之前其他委員曾經也關心過的這個不僅僅是人要有食安那寵物也有食安那寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的一個注目那過去曾經有狗的飼料出問題那現在最近有貓的飼料出問題院長你知道這一件事對不對\n268855\t283900\t對我覺得這個對寵物大家把他當作生活的陪伴對他的照顧應該要多一點所以我們認為這個動保法裡面的專章啊對你曾經回答說我們未來動保法的專章要來談這個寵物的管理嘛那現在在還沒有動保法的專章\n285380\t306844\t行政院院板還沒送到立法院嘛年底嘛對不對那還沒有的情況之下那現在貓飼料出問題了我們如何管上一次所謂的貝利跟這個貓飼都出現了這個飼料上的一個危機那有市主就反映貓咪吃完之後出現的這個低血價或者是身體不適等這個狀況那這個事件是不是請我們陳部長可以來簡單檢調報告一下\n312285\t337533\t非常謝謝委員關心這個有關於寵物食品的議題那現在跟我們整個的未來的食品會有一個專法專法包括整個食品的從進口以後的追溯整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理那現階段我們現在有針對有關於飼料本身的這些病原及微生物還有它有害物質有一個鑑定的方法有一個鑑定的方法有標準\n338213\t352402\t對,然後有這樣的標準的話我們就會查核那過往我們大概一年只查100件左右我們現在今年開始就已經開始我們會加倍到300件到500件那到現在為止已經抽了大概110多件\n352987\t381537\t所以要加倍抽檢大概三倍大概三倍三倍以上對不對那請問一下那我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件那我們如何處理那第二個聽說事主自行的去檢驗飼料有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃毒橘素那這個有相關的法規嗎有相關的標準嗎我們可以處理嗎我們有標準但是因為您說的那個部分是他大概有去了解嗎沒有\n381977\t382858\t目前為止你抽驗的抽檢的都沒有超過?\n404751\t422249\t對那原來那個低血症的那些飼料的部分經我們檢查他的飼料也沒問題那我們也召開了專家會議那專家會議說那你有就這個你們的檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果有第一個當然要公告了公告周知第二個\n423050\t434565\t有跟這位這個事主有聯繫嗎?有去查清楚弄清楚這雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡?因為我們這邊官方檢驗出來是說沒有問題。但是事主\n438630\t441891\t我跟委員說明就是他當初那個事主本身的低血鉀正本那我們開了專家會議那專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能因為他的結論說\n466900\t488403\t因為飾料有可能造成但是飾料裡面的甲它的含量是有超過標準的所以相對還有其他的原因那綜合的判斷說低血甲症它是由非常多的因素而造成的不能完全規則於某一種不能規則於就是可能是飾料出問題是不是那我覺得這個部分我覺得應該要\n489404\t495509\t我相信不分年齡層那寵物呢這個議題或是這個在動保法裡面我們相關法律規範的這個每一條生命都是無價的\n511302\t529892\t所以我們也希望這個寵物產業在我們政府能夠積極有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理包括他的食品包括他其他的附屬的一些東西我覺得這個已經談了好多年了我希望政府可不可以加快腳步\n530512\t554545\t對這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章來特別去做相關的規範。部長我要提醒你喔本來說是要寵物的一個管理專法在你兩年前成立的這個寵物管理科的時候就在講了拖了兩年到現在呢發現不行了我們等不到專法那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責的篇幅\n557046\t584993\t但是呢你又說要到年底那我希望呢可不可以盡快盡快因為呢趁這個機會把相關的這個寵物的一個管理制度包括他的食品相關的東西附屬產品我覺得這個是關乎了很多千千萬萬在養寵物的人這個我們人民大家是非常關心我們的寵物的這個健康跟相關的一個事務啦所以這很重要啦好不好\n585594\t586857\t我們在下個會期一定會提出\n590652\t618755\t下個會期提出我們就等著您提出我們好好的來討論因為據說寵物的這個相關的這個產業的產值高達五六百億這個也是看我們農業部的報告的是不是而且相關的從業人員也很多養寵物的人更多甚至台灣在這一方面就我知道的中小企業裡面就寵物的相關產品的一個產業鏈也非常的完整\n619255\t633588\t那如果說我們可以把這個寵物管理的這個專章如果制定好管理的制度也把它建制好那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌協助這些廠商外銷出口\n634304\t640989\t對,我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進。是不是?好,部長再拜託你好不好講。接下來我要問院長,講到產業,我們最近大家都在談AI半導體很好,尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業,但是我必須還是要跟院長請命,\n656220\t657501\t我知道委員所在的選區臺中\n686135\t686195\t﹚主席\n709963\t720513\t因應高科技整個發展的快速但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力甚至把科技引進數位引進到這個傳產的管理上面來那這一點我想\n722244\t743659\t國發會、國科會、還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。來,院長,你講得很好。但是我要提醒一件事情。不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化。我們要非常仔細地去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自的選區台中。台中市的這個機械業、汽車、五金融、\n744360\t764002\t﹚\n765323\t785773\t我認為數位化是一個趨勢,智能化是一個趨勢,但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起,那不是政府用花就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們,也要公司、工廠他們有資本、有能力再投入,這投入是一筆錢,這一筆錢如何再由政府來協助他們,這個才是重點。第一個是\n794117\t817837\t之遠的成本的問題。第二個,人的問題。各行各業在傳產的每一個製程裡面,我也希望自動化、智能化。但是呢,系統整合的人在哪裡?我們有沒有去盤點過?我們過去常常在喊要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化,所以呢要工業4.0。但是,\n819739\t820099\t我請主委回答\n839315\t863564\t跟委員報告一下,因為這些企業我最近都開始有在接觸以工具機來講,它最大的困境是規模小,很多在10億以下它面對國際競爭的時候,它遇到困難所以我們現在從幾個方面,第一個是從效率面它的資本效率,就是我們希望協助他們成立控股公司就是公司可以保留原樣,但是在後台運作可控股我舉個例子\n864264\t886787\t很多大廠、很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點它有2萬多顆螺絲但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲是因為他們不懂得效率去共用零件那我們就會協助他共用零件然後共用採購共用資本另外我們在創新創業會引導創新創業的人才進到這個地方來幫忙做它的自動化的部分\n887447\t914640\t主委我知道政府有這些措施但是我會要求你去盤點一下政府的這些措施到底呢有幫助到多少的中小企業您所說的以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話有多少間公司而這些的公司的在整體的比例又是佔多少我會提醒你這一點是什麼我這個頁面最重要的一句話中小企業數百萬家就業人口因為中小企業傳統產業照顧\n916561\t917682\t我希望政府要照顧得到他們\n","txt":"好謝謝院長我們是不是首先先請我們卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n陳委員好卓院長好首先先跟你加油還有很多很大的挑戰在面前那我想這一次的國會擴權法案我們政院已經提出副議那明天立法院就要進行質詢不知道卓院長的期待如何因為之前你曾經指出你比較樂觀我必須樂觀因為我相信每個委員都是經過選民選上來的\n應該都有民主的DNA,都有民主的向往,那希望透過民主的程序再讓大院來討論、審視每一個我們認為自愛難行的條文的內容。我覺得這就是一個民主的機會,再次的審視,那再次的能夠有機會重新再看看能不能讓社會也接受,那我們來執行起來也沒有自愛難行。\n你說過要透過這個過程讓人民好好的知道、理解。民主最寶貴的地方也就是在這裡。所以我也希望接下來兩天的立法院有關復議案的質詢能夠順利。我也希望禮拜五的復議案能夠\n成功這個我們還必須要再加油因為還有很大的挑戰在面前那為什麼會提到這個因為在這個國會擴權法案通過之後監察院也發出嚴正的聲明說這個法案是違反了這個權利分立也違反了目前的五權憲法的一個架構\n那所以在我們行政院提出副議的理由有提到這一次的國會擴選裡面有關的一些包括啟動調查或者是啟發相關的一些法條裡面的要求\n會變成是如果清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍也就是我剛剛說的這一次國會擴權法案是挑戰了目前的五權憲法權力分立的原則破壞了這樣子的原則所以在我們行政院的復議的理由有提到這件事那我請教院長你會建議監察院也去提事線嗎\n當然是監察院的憲法職權,但是五院的體制要維持下去,就是每個院的職責要非常的清楚,而且互相的搭配,互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責,但是我們還有司法權、監察權各司不同的憲法的職務,尤其是司法權。\n⋯⋯⋯\n﹚國務委員\n也表示我們在遵守憲法,捍衛憲法,維護這個五院體制。\n好謝謝院長這個我們還必須要再加油接下來我關心的是之前其他委員曾經也關心過的這個不僅僅是人要有食安那寵物也有食安那寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的一個注目那過去曾經有狗的飼料出問題那現在最近有貓的飼料出問題院長你知道這一件事對不對\n對我覺得這個對寵物大家把他當作生活的陪伴對他的照顧應該要多一點所以我們認為這個動保法裡面的專章啊對你曾經回答說我們未來動保法的專章要來談這個寵物的管理嘛那現在在還沒有動保法的專章\n行政院院板還沒送到立法院嘛年底嘛對不對那還沒有的情況之下那現在貓飼料出問題了我們如何管上一次所謂的貝利跟這個貓飼都出現了這個飼料上的一個危機那有市主就反映貓咪吃完之後出現的這個低血價或者是身體不適等這個狀況那這個事件是不是請我們陳部長可以來簡單檢調報告一下\n非常謝謝委員關心這個有關於寵物食品的議題那現在跟我們整個的未來的食品會有一個專法專法包括整個食品的從進口以後的追溯整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理那現階段我們現在有針對有關於飼料本身的這些病原及微生物還有它有害物質有一個鑑定的方法有一個鑑定的方法有標準\n對,然後有這樣的標準的話我們就會查核那過往我們大概一年只查100件左右我們現在今年開始就已經開始我們會加倍到300件到500件那到現在為止已經抽了大概110多件\n所以要加倍抽檢大概三倍大概三倍三倍以上對不對那請問一下那我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件那我們如何處理那第二個聽說事主自行的去檢驗飼料有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃毒橘素那這個有相關的法規嗎有相關的標準嗎我們可以處理嗎我們有標準但是因為您說的那個部分是他大概有去了解嗎沒有\n目前為止你抽驗的抽檢的都沒有超過?\n對那原來那個低血症的那些飼料的部分經我們檢查他的飼料也沒問題那我們也召開了專家會議那專家會議說那你有就這個你們的檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果有第一個當然要公告了公告周知第二個\n有跟這位這個事主有聯繫嗎?有去查清楚弄清楚這雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡?因為我們這邊官方檢驗出來是說沒有問題。但是事主\n我跟委員說明就是他當初那個事主本身的低血鉀正本那我們開了專家會議那專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能因為他的結論說\n因為飾料有可能造成但是飾料裡面的甲它的含量是有超過標準的所以相對還有其他的原因那綜合的判斷說低血甲症它是由非常多的因素而造成的不能完全規則於某一種不能規則於就是可能是飾料出問題是不是那我覺得這個部分我覺得應該要\n我相信不分年齡層那寵物呢這個議題或是這個在動保法裡面我們相關法律規範的這個每一條生命都是無價的\n所以我們也希望這個寵物產業在我們政府能夠積極有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理包括他的食品包括他其他的附屬的一些東西我覺得這個已經談了好多年了我希望政府可不可以加快腳步\n對這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章來特別去做相關的規範。部長我要提醒你喔本來說是要寵物的一個管理專法在你兩年前成立的這個寵物管理科的時候就在講了拖了兩年到現在呢發現不行了我們等不到專法那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責的篇幅\n但是呢你又說要到年底那我希望呢可不可以盡快盡快因為呢趁這個機會把相關的這個寵物的一個管理制度包括他的食品相關的東西附屬產品我覺得這個是關乎了很多千千萬萬在養寵物的人這個我們人民大家是非常關心我們的寵物的這個健康跟相關的一個事務啦所以這很重要啦好不好\n我們在下個會期一定會提出\n下個會期提出我們就等著您提出我們好好的來討論因為據說寵物的這個相關的這個產業的產值高達五六百億這個也是看我們農業部的報告的是不是而且相關的從業人員也很多養寵物的人更多甚至台灣在這一方面就我知道的中小企業裡面就寵物的相關產品的一個產業鏈也非常的完整\n那如果說我們可以把這個寵物管理的這個專章如果制定好管理的制度也把它建制好那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌協助這些廠商外銷出口\n對,我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進。是不是?好,部長再拜託你好不好講。接下來我要問院長,講到產業,我們最近大家都在談AI半導體很好,尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業,但是我必須還是要跟院長請命,\n我知道委員所在的選區臺中\n﹚主席\n因應高科技整個發展的快速但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力甚至把科技引進數位引進到這個傳產的管理上面來那這一點我想\n國發會、國科會、還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。來,院長,你講得很好。但是我要提醒一件事情。不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化。我們要非常仔細地去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自的選區台中。台中市的這個機械業、汽車、五金融、\n﹚\n我認為數位化是一個趨勢,智能化是一個趨勢,但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起,那不是政府用花就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們,也要公司、工廠他們有資本、有能力再投入,這投入是一筆錢,這一筆錢如何再由政府來協助他們,這個才是重點。第一個是\n之遠的成本的問題。第二個,人的問題。各行各業在傳產的每一個製程裡面,我也希望自動化、智能化。但是呢,系統整合的人在哪裡?我們有沒有去盤點過?我們過去常常在喊要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化,所以呢要工業4.0。但是,\n我請主委回答\n跟委員報告一下,因為這些企業我最近都開始有在接觸以工具機來講,它最大的困境是規模小,很多在10億以下它面對國際競爭的時候,它遇到困難所以我們現在從幾個方面,第一個是從效率面它的資本效率,就是我們希望協助他們成立控股公司就是公司可以保留原樣,但是在後台運作可控股我舉個例子\n很多大廠、很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點它有2萬多顆螺絲但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲是因為他們不懂得效率去共用零件那我們就會協助他共用零件然後共用採購共用資本另外我們在創新創業會引導創新創業的人才進到這個地方來幫忙做它的自動化的部分\n主委我知道政府有這些措施但是我會要求你去盤點一下政府的這些措施到底呢有幫助到多少的中小企業您所說的以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話有多少間公司而這些的公司的在整體的比例又是佔多少我會提醒你這一點是什麼我這個頁面最重要的一句話中小企業數百萬家就業人口因為中小企業傳統產業照顧\n我希望政府要照顧得到他們\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.291 --> 00:18.662\n好謝謝院長我們是不是首先先請我們卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:29.355 --> 00:55.760\n陳委員好卓院長好首先先跟你加油還有很多很大的挑戰在面前那我想這一次的國會擴權法案我們政院已經提出副議那明天立法院就要進行質詢不知道卓院長的期待如何因為之前你曾經指出你比較樂觀我必須樂觀因為我相信每個委員都是經過選民選上來的\n\n00:58.119 --> 01:21.254\n應該都有民主的DNA,都有民主的向往,那希望透過民主的程序再讓大院來討論、審視每一個我們認為自愛難行的條文的內容。我覺得這就是一個民主的機會,再次的審視,那再次的能夠有機會重新再看看能不能讓社會也接受,那我們來執行起來也沒有自愛難行。\n\n01:22.008 --> 01:39.349\n你說過要透過這個過程讓人民好好的知道、理解。民主最寶貴的地方也就是在這裡。所以我也希望接下來兩天的立法院有關復議案的質詢能夠順利。我也希望禮拜五的復議案能夠\n\n01:40.430 --> 01:47.372\n成功這個我們還必須要再加油因為還有很大的挑戰在面前那為什麼會提到這個因為在這個國會擴權法案通過之後監察院也發出嚴正的聲明說這個法案是違反了這個權利分立也違反了目前的五權憲法的一個架構\n\n02:00.956 --> 02:07.165\n那所以在我們行政院提出副議的理由有提到這一次的國會擴選裡面有關的一些包括啟動調查或者是啟發相關的一些法條裡面的要求\n\n02:16.196 --> 02:40.050\n會變成是如果清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍也就是我剛剛說的這一次國會擴權法案是挑戰了目前的五權憲法權力分立的原則破壞了這樣子的原則所以在我們行政院的復議的理由有提到這件事那我請教院長你會建議監察院也去提事線嗎\n\n02:41.432 --> 03:02.313\n當然是監察院的憲法職權,但是五院的體制要維持下去,就是每個院的職責要非常的清楚,而且互相的搭配,互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責,但是我們還有司法權、監察權各司不同的憲法的職務,尤其是司法權。\n\n03:22.096 --> 03:22.116\n﹚國務委員\n\n03:40.257 --> 03:41.839\n也表示我們在遵守憲法,捍衛憲法,維護這個五院體制。\n\n03:59.301 --> 04:27.796\n好謝謝院長這個我們還必須要再加油接下來我關心的是之前其他委員曾經也關心過的這個不僅僅是人要有食安那寵物也有食安那寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的一個注目那過去曾經有狗的飼料出問題那現在最近有貓的飼料出問題院長你知道這一件事對不對\n\n04:28.855 --> 04:43.900\n對我覺得這個對寵物大家把他當作生活的陪伴對他的照顧應該要多一點所以我們認為這個動保法裡面的專章啊對你曾經回答說我們未來動保法的專章要來談這個寵物的管理嘛那現在在還沒有動保法的專章\n\n04:45.380 --> 05:06.844\n行政院院板還沒送到立法院嘛年底嘛對不對那還沒有的情況之下那現在貓飼料出問題了我們如何管上一次所謂的貝利跟這個貓飼都出現了這個飼料上的一個危機那有市主就反映貓咪吃完之後出現的這個低血價或者是身體不適等這個狀況那這個事件是不是請我們陳部長可以來簡單檢調報告一下\n\n05:12.285 --> 05:37.533\n非常謝謝委員關心這個有關於寵物食品的議題那現在跟我們整個的未來的食品會有一個專法專法包括整個食品的從進口以後的追溯整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理那現階段我們現在有針對有關於飼料本身的這些病原及微生物還有它有害物質有一個鑑定的方法有一個鑑定的方法有標準\n\n05:38.213 --> 05:52.402\n對,然後有這樣的標準的話我們就會查核那過往我們大概一年只查100件左右我們現在今年開始就已經開始我們會加倍到300件到500件那到現在為止已經抽了大概110多件\n\n05:52.987 --> 06:21.537\n所以要加倍抽檢大概三倍大概三倍三倍以上對不對那請問一下那我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件那我們如何處理那第二個聽說事主自行的去檢驗飼料有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃毒橘素那這個有相關的法規嗎有相關的標準嗎我們可以處理嗎我們有標準但是因為您說的那個部分是他大概有去了解嗎沒有\n\n06:21.977 --> 06:22.858\n目前為止你抽驗的抽檢的都沒有超過?\n\n06:44.751 --> 07:02.249\n對那原來那個低血症的那些飼料的部分經我們檢查他的飼料也沒問題那我們也召開了專家會議那專家會議說那你有就這個你們的檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果有第一個當然要公告了公告周知第二個\n\n07:03.050 --> 07:14.565\n有跟這位這個事主有聯繫嗎?有去查清楚弄清楚這雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡?因為我們這邊官方檢驗出來是說沒有問題。但是事主\n\n07:18.630 --> 07:21.891\n我跟委員說明就是他當初那個事主本身的低血鉀正本那我們開了專家會議那專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能因為他的結論說\n\n07:46.900 --> 08:08.403\n因為飾料有可能造成但是飾料裡面的甲它的含量是有超過標準的所以相對還有其他的原因那綜合的判斷說低血甲症它是由非常多的因素而造成的不能完全規則於某一種不能規則於就是可能是飾料出問題是不是那我覺得這個部分我覺得應該要\n\n08:09.404 --> 08:15.509\n我相信不分年齡層那寵物呢這個議題或是這個在動保法裡面我們相關法律規範的這個每一條生命都是無價的\n\n08:31.302 --> 08:49.892\n所以我們也希望這個寵物產業在我們政府能夠積極有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理包括他的食品包括他其他的附屬的一些東西我覺得這個已經談了好多年了我希望政府可不可以加快腳步\n\n08:50.512 --> 09:14.545\n對這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章來特別去做相關的規範。部長我要提醒你喔本來說是要寵物的一個管理專法在你兩年前成立的這個寵物管理科的時候就在講了拖了兩年到現在呢發現不行了我們等不到專法那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責的篇幅\n\n09:17.046 --> 09:44.993\n但是呢你又說要到年底那我希望呢可不可以盡快盡快因為呢趁這個機會把相關的這個寵物的一個管理制度包括他的食品相關的東西附屬產品我覺得這個是關乎了很多千千萬萬在養寵物的人這個我們人民大家是非常關心我們的寵物的這個健康跟相關的一個事務啦所以這很重要啦好不好\n\n09:45.594 --> 09:46.857\n我們在下個會期一定會提出\n\n09:50.652 --> 10:18.755\n下個會期提出我們就等著您提出我們好好的來討論因為據說寵物的這個相關的這個產業的產值高達五六百億這個也是看我們農業部的報告的是不是而且相關的從業人員也很多養寵物的人更多甚至台灣在這一方面就我知道的中小企業裡面就寵物的相關產品的一個產業鏈也非常的完整\n\n10:19.255 --> 10:33.588\n那如果說我們可以把這個寵物管理的這個專章如果制定好管理的制度也把它建制好那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌協助這些廠商外銷出口\n\n10:34.304 --> 10:40.989\n對,我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進。是不是?好,部長再拜託你好不好講。接下來我要問院長,講到產業,我們最近大家都在談AI半導體很好,尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業,但是我必須還是要跟院長請命,\n\n10:56.220 --> 10:57.501\n我知道委員所在的選區臺中\n\n11:26.135 --> 11:26.195\n﹚主席\n\n11:49.963 --> 12:00.513\n因應高科技整個發展的快速但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力甚至把科技引進數位引進到這個傳產的管理上面來那這一點我想\n\n12:02.244 --> 12:23.659\n國發會、國科會、還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。來,院長,你講得很好。但是我要提醒一件事情。不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化。我們要非常仔細地去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自的選區台中。台中市的這個機械業、汽車、五金融、\n\n12:45.323 --> 13:05.773\n我認為數位化是一個趨勢,智能化是一個趨勢,但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起,那不是政府用花就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們,也要公司、工廠他們有資本、有能力再投入,這投入是一筆錢,這一筆錢如何再由政府來協助他們,這個才是重點。第一個是\n\n13:14.117 --> 13:37.837\n之遠的成本的問題。第二個,人的問題。各行各業在傳產的每一個製程裡面,我也希望自動化、智能化。但是呢,系統整合的人在哪裡?我們有沒有去盤點過?我們過去常常在喊要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化,所以呢要工業4.0。但是,\n\n13:39.739 --> 13:40.099\n我請主委回答\n\n13:59.315 --> 14:23.564\n跟委員報告一下,因為這些企業我最近都開始有在接觸以工具機來講,它最大的困境是規模小,很多在10億以下它面對國際競爭的時候,它遇到困難所以我們現在從幾個方面,第一個是從效率面它的資本效率,就是我們希望協助他們成立控股公司就是公司可以保留原樣,但是在後台運作可控股我舉個例子\n\n14:24.264 --> 14:46.787\n很多大廠、很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點它有2萬多顆螺絲但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲是因為他們不懂得效率去共用零件那我們就會協助他共用零件然後共用採購共用資本另外我們在創新創業會引導創新創業的人才進到這個地方來幫忙做它的自動化的部分\n\n14:47.447 --> 15:14.640\n主委我知道政府有這些措施但是我會要求你去盤點一下政府的這些措施到底呢有幫助到多少的中小企業您所說的以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話有多少間公司而這些的公司的在整體的比例又是佔多少我會提醒你這一點是什麼我這個頁面最重要的一句話中小企業數百萬家就業人口因為中小企業傳統產業照顧\n\n15:16.561 --> 15:17.682\n我希望政府要照顧得到他們\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.291,"end":18.662,"text":"好謝謝院長我們是不是首先先請我們卓院長再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":29.355,"end":55.76,"text":"陳委員好卓院長好首先先跟你加油還有很多很大的挑戰在面前那我想這一次的國會擴權法案我們政院已經提出副議那明天立法院就要進行質詢不知道卓院長的期待如何因為之前你曾經指出你比較樂觀我必須樂觀因為我相信每個委員都是經過選民選上來的"},{"start":58.119,"end":81.254,"text":"應該都有民主的DNA,都有民主的向往,那希望透過民主的程序再讓大院來討論、審視每一個我們認為自愛難行的條文的內容。我覺得這就是一個民主的機會,再次的審視,那再次的能夠有機會重新再看看能不能讓社會也接受,那我們來執行起來也沒有自愛難行。"},{"start":82.008,"end":99.349,"text":"你說過要透過這個過程讓人民好好的知道、理解。民主最寶貴的地方也就是在這裡。所以我也希望接下來兩天的立法院有關復議案的質詢能夠順利。我也希望禮拜五的復議案能夠"},{"start":100.43,"end":107.372,"text":"成功這個我們還必須要再加油因為還有很大的挑戰在面前那為什麼會提到這個因為在這個國會擴權法案通過之後監察院也發出嚴正的聲明說這個法案是違反了這個權利分立也違反了目前的五權憲法的一個架構"},{"start":120.956,"end":127.165,"text":"那所以在我們行政院提出副議的理由有提到這一次的國會擴選裡面有關的一些包括啟動調查或者是啟發相關的一些法條裡面的要求"},{"start":136.196,"end":160.05,"text":"會變成是如果清查政府弊案屬於監察院或司法機關的職權範圍也就是我剛剛說的這一次國會擴權法案是挑戰了目前的五權憲法權力分立的原則破壞了這樣子的原則所以在我們行政院的復議的理由有提到這件事那我請教院長你會建議監察院也去提事線嗎"},{"start":161.432,"end":182.313,"text":"當然是監察院的憲法職權,但是五院的體制要維持下去,就是每個院的職責要非常的清楚,而且互相的搭配,互相不去踩線。行政院對立法院負責,但是我們還有司法權、監察權各司不同的憲法的職務,尤其是司法權。"},{"start":183.592,"end":202.056,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":202.096,"end":202.116,"text":"﹚國務委員"},{"start":220.257,"end":221.839,"text":"也表示我們在遵守憲法,捍衛憲法,維護這個五院體制。"},{"start":239.301,"end":267.796,"text":"好謝謝院長這個我們還必須要再加油接下來我關心的是之前其他委員曾經也關心過的這個不僅僅是人要有食安那寵物也有食安那寵物的食安在現階段受到廣泛的一個注目那過去曾經有狗的飼料出問題那現在最近有貓的飼料出問題院長你知道這一件事對不對"},{"start":268.855,"end":283.9,"text":"對我覺得這個對寵物大家把他當作生活的陪伴對他的照顧應該要多一點所以我們認為這個動保法裡面的專章啊對你曾經回答說我們未來動保法的專章要來談這個寵物的管理嘛那現在在還沒有動保法的專章"},{"start":285.38,"end":306.844,"text":"行政院院板還沒送到立法院嘛年底嘛對不對那還沒有的情況之下那現在貓飼料出問題了我們如何管上一次所謂的貝利跟這個貓飼都出現了這個飼料上的一個危機那有市主就反映貓咪吃完之後出現的這個低血價或者是身體不適等這個狀況那這個事件是不是請我們陳部長可以來簡單檢調報告一下"},{"start":312.285,"end":337.533,"text":"非常謝謝委員關心這個有關於寵物食品的議題那現在跟我們整個的未來的食品會有一個專法專法包括整個食品的從進口以後的追溯整個系統要有完整的追溯才能夠處理那現階段我們現在有針對有關於飼料本身的這些病原及微生物還有它有害物質有一個鑑定的方法有一個鑑定的方法有標準"},{"start":338.213,"end":352.402,"text":"對,然後有這樣的標準的話我們就會查核那過往我們大概一年只查100件左右我們現在今年開始就已經開始我們會加倍到300件到500件那到現在為止已經抽了大概110多件"},{"start":352.987,"end":381.537,"text":"所以要加倍抽檢大概三倍大概三倍三倍以上對不對那請問一下那我剛剛講的那個已經發生的事件那我們如何處理那第二個聽說事主自行的去檢驗飼料有驗出三聚氰胺跟黃毒橘素那這個有相關的法規嗎有相關的標準嗎我們可以處理嗎我們有標準但是因為您說的那個部分是他大概有去了解嗎沒有"},{"start":381.977,"end":382.858,"text":"目前為止你抽驗的抽檢的都沒有超過?"},{"start":404.751,"end":422.249,"text":"對那原來那個低血症的那些飼料的部分經我們檢查他的飼料也沒問題那我們也召開了專家會議那專家會議說那你有就這個你們的檢驗的結果跟專家會議的結果有第一個當然要公告了公告周知第二個"},{"start":423.05,"end":434.565,"text":"有跟這位這個事主有聯繫嗎?有去查清楚弄清楚這雙方之間的落差到底在哪裡?因為我們這邊官方檢驗出來是說沒有問題。但是事主"},{"start":438.63,"end":441.891,"text":"我跟委員說明就是他當初那個事主本身的低血鉀正本那我們開了專家會議那專家會議沒有辦法排除任何的可能因為他的結論說"},{"start":466.9,"end":488.403,"text":"因為飾料有可能造成但是飾料裡面的甲它的含量是有超過標準的所以相對還有其他的原因那綜合的判斷說低血甲症它是由非常多的因素而造成的不能完全規則於某一種不能規則於就是可能是飾料出問題是不是那我覺得這個部分我覺得應該要"},{"start":489.404,"end":495.509,"text":"我相信不分年齡層那寵物呢這個議題或是這個在動保法裡面我們相關法律規範的這個每一條生命都是無價的"},{"start":511.302,"end":529.892,"text":"所以我們也希望這個寵物產業在我們政府能夠積極有效甚至能夠更專業的來管理包括他的食品包括他其他的附屬的一些東西我覺得這個已經談了好多年了我希望政府可不可以加快腳步"},{"start":530.512,"end":554.545,"text":"對這也是為什麼我們要在動保法裡面有一個寵物食品的專章來特別去做相關的規範。部長我要提醒你喔本來說是要寵物的一個管理專法在你兩年前成立的這個寵物管理科的時候就在講了拖了兩年到現在呢發現不行了我們等不到專法那你說要在動保法裡面有一個專責的篇幅"},{"start":557.046,"end":584.993,"text":"但是呢你又說要到年底那我希望呢可不可以盡快盡快因為呢趁這個機會把相關的這個寵物的一個管理制度包括他的食品相關的東西附屬產品我覺得這個是關乎了很多千千萬萬在養寵物的人這個我們人民大家是非常關心我們的寵物的這個健康跟相關的一個事務啦所以這很重要啦好不好"},{"start":585.594,"end":586.857,"text":"我們在下個會期一定會提出"},{"start":590.652,"end":618.755,"text":"下個會期提出我們就等著您提出我們好好的來討論因為據說寵物的這個相關的這個產業的產值高達五六百億這個也是看我們農業部的報告的是不是而且相關的從業人員也很多養寵物的人更多甚至台灣在這一方面就我知道的中小企業裡面就寵物的相關產品的一個產業鏈也非常的完整"},{"start":619.255,"end":633.588,"text":"那如果說我們可以把這個寵物管理的這個專章如果制定好管理的制度也把它建制好那我們是不是甚至可以進一步的跟國際接軌協助這些廠商外銷出口"},{"start":634.304,"end":640.989,"text":"對,我們就是朝這樣的一個目標去前進。是不是?好,部長再拜託你好不好講。接下來我要問院長,講到產業,我們最近大家都在談AI半導體很好,尤其我們部長也是來自相關的產業,但是我必須還是要跟院長請命,"},{"start":656.22,"end":657.501,"text":"我知道委員所在的選區臺中"},{"start":686.135,"end":686.195,"text":"﹚主席"},{"start":709.963,"end":720.513,"text":"因應高科技整個發展的快速但是回頭來我們要讓傳產不會失去它的競爭力甚至把科技引進數位引進到這個傳產的管理上面來那這一點我想"},{"start":722.244,"end":743.659,"text":"國發會、國科會、還有我們經濟部都有很多的作為。來,院長,你講得很好。但是我要提醒一件事情。不是所有的傳統產業、中小企業都能夠數位化、高科技化。我們要非常仔細地去盤點。你剛剛提到我來自的選區台中。台中市的這個機械業、汽車、五金融、"},{"start":744.36,"end":764.002,"text":"﹚"},{"start":765.323,"end":785.773,"text":"我認為數位化是一個趨勢,智能化是一個趨勢,但是那是要稍有規模以上的公司、工廠才可能負擔得起,那不是政府用花就有辦法做到的。我們政府要協助他們,也要公司、工廠他們有資本、有能力再投入,這投入是一筆錢,這一筆錢如何再由政府來協助他們,這個才是重點。第一個是"},{"start":794.117,"end":817.837,"text":"之遠的成本的問題。第二個,人的問題。各行各業在傳產的每一個製程裡面,我也希望自動化、智能化。但是呢,系統整合的人在哪裡?我們有沒有去盤點過?我們過去常常在喊要讓傳統產業邁向高科技、數位化,所以呢要工業4.0。但是,"},{"start":819.739,"end":820.099,"text":"我請主委回答"},{"start":839.315,"end":863.564,"text":"跟委員報告一下,因為這些企業我最近都開始有在接觸以工具機來講,它最大的困境是規模小,很多在10億以下它面對國際競爭的時候,它遇到困難所以我們現在從幾個方面,第一個是從效率面它的資本效率,就是我們希望協助他們成立控股公司就是公司可以保留原樣,但是在後台運作可控股我舉個例子"},{"start":864.264,"end":886.787,"text":"很多大廠、很多螺絲廠我們進去盤點它有2萬多顆螺絲但是一個機器用不了那麼多螺絲是因為他們不懂得效率去共用零件那我們就會協助他共用零件然後共用採購共用資本另外我們在創新創業會引導創新創業的人才進到這個地方來幫忙做它的自動化的部分"},{"start":887.447,"end":914.64,"text":"主委我知道政府有這些措施但是我會要求你去盤點一下政府的這些措施到底呢有幫助到多少的中小企業您所說的以你剛剛講的工具機為主的話有多少間公司而這些的公司的在整體的比例又是佔多少我會提醒你這一點是什麼我這個頁面最重要的一句話中小企業數百萬家就業人口因為中小企業傳統產業照顧"},{"start":916.561,"end":917.682,"text":"我希望政府要照顧得到他們"}]}}}}