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\"text\": \"當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 146.355, \"end\": 147.076, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 147.076, \"end\": 147.236, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 147.236, \"end\": 147.376, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 147.376, \"end\": 147.536, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 147.536, \"end\": 147.857, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 147.857, \"end\": 148.217, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.217, \"end\": 148.517, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 148.517, \"end\": 149.078, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 149.078, \"end\": 149.878, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 149.878, \"end\": 150.439, \"score\": 0.935}, 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214.432, \"end\": 239.705, \"text\": \"國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 214.432, \"end\": 214.653, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"革\", \"start\": 214.653, \"end\": 215.253, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 215.253, \"end\": 216.193, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 216.193, \"end\": 216.333, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 216.333, \"end\": 216.453, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 216.453, \"end\": 216.613, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 216.613, \"end\": 216.794, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 216.794, \"end\": 217.214, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 217.214, \"end\": 217.334, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 217.334, \"end\": 217.474, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 596.054, \"end\": 596.074, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 596.074, \"end\": 596.194, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 596.194, \"end\": 596.214, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 596.214, \"end\": 596.234, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 605.16, \"end\": 605.34, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 605.34, \"end\": 605.46, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 605.46, \"end\": 605.921, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 605.921, \"end\": 606.041, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 606.041, \"end\": 606.181, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 606.181, \"end\": 606.201, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,910 --> 00:00:03,571\n謝謝主席。我們事實有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。王國勇好。\n\n2\n00:00:16,035 --> 00:00:40,575\n主委院長好院長我先請教你你剛剛在回答的時候有提到說你是支持國會改革的對不對當然是的好那但是你在上午回答這個有委員質詢的時候你這次提出來的覆議案又是所有的條文你通通都覆議沒有一條是你認同的你不覺得這樣子是蠻矛盾的嗎\n\n3\n00:00:41,055 --> 00:01:06,876\n在這次通過的版本裡面真的沒有一個條文它是可以落實的嗎?每一個條文都必須提出覆議嗎?請委員能夠體諒我們這個是最整部法案整部的法案提出覆議希望重新檢測內部因為像剛剛提到的這個它就有條文之間矛盾之處所以我們就整部法案但不需要全部都提覆議啊第一個本席要就教你的\n\n4\n00:01:07,637 --> 00:01:22,344\n就是有關於聽證權的部分我們可以看到世界各國我們覺得它相較是民主進步的國家包括美國、德國、法國、英國他們其實都有所謂的聽證調查權\n\n5\n00:01:24,685 --> 00:01:46,910\n那在這個部分今天中華民國我們在國會可以邁出改革的地步讓國會擁有聽證調查權我個人認為這樣的改革是跟世界接軌是往前邁進但是連這個部分行政院都要提出復議難道院長你不認同國會應該擁有聽證調查權嗎\n\n6\n00:01:50,051 --> 00:02:16,403\n其他國家有的國會的設計是沒有質詢權而有聽證權所以聽證權就幾乎是代表了國會議員對官員或是一般關係人或是社會上重要的關係人他們對他的一種互動的關係所以有這樣的設計那台灣我們自己我們在人事同意權上面有類似這樣的一個行為但是無論如何他的執行要參照4至585號裡面的規定他應該在特定的範圍之內\n\n7\n00:02:17,744 --> 00:02:21,573\n舉行他的聽證,他的裡面的這個調查調閱聽證的這個過程都要受到憲法這個設置的上的規定\n\n8\n00:02:26,355 --> 00:02:48,035\n當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的\n\n9\n00:02:48,715 --> 00:02:48,895\n王育敏\n\n10\n00:03:03,712 --> 00:03:33,272\n所謂的這個聽證會我想大家從各大媒體裡面都可以看到美國國會召開聽證會的過程多麼的嚴謹不管你是企業或是個人跟這個案子重大案子相關的人你到了這個聽證會你就必須做真實的陳述我想這樣子才可以達到真的去追求真相然後幫人民把關的目的那這個部分我們可以看到在民意支持度的部分\n\n11\n00:03:34,432 --> 00:03:59,705\n國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼\n\n12\n00:04:00,325 --> 00:04:29,028\n代表人民他希望國會是有實權的國會希望人民的國會是可以代表人民真正去監督政府而這樣子的一個民意我希望這個執政黨不要忽視這樣的一個民意今天剛剛有這個民進黨的委員說青鳥他代表青鳥在這個國會這邊要表達他們的聲音但是這個社會不只只有青鳥的聲音\n\n13\n00:04:30,389 --> 00:04:56,906\n這個社會是多元的聲音而從這樣的民調我們看出來是超過將近六成的民眾其實是支持的而這樣子的一個支持我們可以看到在2016年國會改革在民進黨相關的委員都有提出相關的法案包括我們在座的國防部部長顧立雄部長其實也有提出相關的法案我們現在已經是\n\n14\n00:04:58,087 --> 00:05:17,705\n作為外交部部長的林佳雄部長其實針對國會改革也都有提出過自己的意見跟看法過去的民進黨我覺得很敢在一些的意見主張上面提出自己的看法我認為這是一個進步的價值但是不要因為換了位置而換了腦袋\n\n15\n00:05:18,866 --> 00:05:38,663\n就是過去主張國會改革有它的這個正當性包括蔡英文總統都認為國會應該擁有完整的聽證調查權才能落實完整這樣的制度但是怎麼會因為現在是在野黨提出之後通過之後就全盤否定了這樣的一個國會改革\n\n16\n00:05:39,844 --> 00:05:41,204\n一個立法的過程應該有多種的因素\n\n17\n00:06:05,237 --> 00:06:16,864\n這一個部分院長先讓我講完齁我還要讓你看一下現在您的搭檔您的副院長鄭麗君副院長過去她擔任立法委員的時候我很認同她講的齁她說要讓立委有更完備的職權包括聽證權與調查權\n\n18\n00:06:24,622 --> 00:06:40,045\n另外一個他提到了就是如我們要讓國會立委職權更行完備而不是像缺了牙的老虎否則弱勢的國會要如何監督政府\n\n19\n00:06:40,866 --> 00:07:10,090\n這是鄭麗君副院長在擔任立法委員的時候他在公聽會上面一再強調一定要讓國會擁有聽證權與調查權我覺得他當時講的這個話應該是發自內心的話我不知道他現在立場改變了我希望他沒有這個是大家認為要讓國會賦予他更完整的權利而今天在座的林佳龍部長他當時其實也提到了\n\n20\n00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:31,479\n就是如果做任何隱匿或虛偽的證實就必須要負刑法上的責任這個是當時林佳龍立法委員他現在是部長當時的主張這個跟國民黨的主張都沒有任何的背離另外一個是現在的監察委員\n\n21\n00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:34,151\n法律強制性結論也有法律強制性\n\n22\n00:07:48,979 --> 00:08:10,948\n他一直覺得台灣沒有辦法召開聽證會這個立法委員呢這個就像狗吠火車一樣立法權對上行政權如果沒有任何的這個監督力的話他說我們只是立法委員只是可以叫得比較大聲但是火車還是開走了\n\n23\n00:08:11,588 --> 00:08:28,660\n這樣的形容很貼切很傳神這個是為什麼立法院這一次的國會改革必須賦予國會議員擁有聽證權跟調查權因為唯有這樣子才可以落實真正的監督\n\n24\n00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:47,172\n但是本席真的覺得非常的遺憾在關鍵的這一些聽證權、調查權上面現在被抹黑、被誤解、被造謠然後被說成這個是對人民權益的侵害會對多數的人民產生這個\n\n25\n00:08:49,493 --> 00:09:12,893\n這個權益上面的侵害我覺得這些通通都是背離事實的一個說法今天國會改革我想是讓立法權他的監督權可以更完整這個絕對不是要去凌駕行政權沒有在我們目前的權力分立裡面事實上這個卓院長過去也擔任過立法委員\n\n26\n00:09:13,373 --> 00:09:35,380\n你現在要擔任院長其實你應該深刻體認到行政權真的是獨大行政權擁有很多的資源其實真的很多民意代表你只能說一說而已對於行政院沒有辦法造成實質的約束力你心裡應該非常的清楚有擔任過民意代表跟擔任過政務官的一定明白這個道理\n\n27\n00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:56,234\n而今天只是強化了國會的監督權力但是要變成整個社會付出這麼大的社會成本互相對抗今天立法院變成什麼樣子周遭都交通管制還要連續三天還要一再的號召這個社會動員大家來到這裡這個真的是現在執政團隊想要的嗎現在太多的國家的問題需要去解決\n\n28\n00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,201\n謝謝王委員下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n910\t3571\t謝謝主席。我們事實有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。王國勇好。\n16035\t40575\t主委院長好 院長我先請教你 你剛剛在回答的時候有提到說你是支持國會改革的對不對當然 是的好 那但是你在上午回答這個有委員質詢的時候你這次提出來的覆議案又是所有的條文你通通都覆議 沒有一條是你認同的你不覺得這樣子是蠻矛盾的嗎\n41055\t66876\t在這次通過的版本裡面真的沒有一個條文它是可以落實的嗎?每一個條文都必須提出覆議嗎?請委員能夠體諒我們這個是最整部法案整部的法案提出覆議希望重新檢測內部因為像剛剛提到的這個它就有條文之間矛盾之處所以我們就整部法案但不需要全部都提覆議啊第一個本席要就教你的\n67637\t82344\t就是有關於聽證權的部分我們可以看到世界各國我們覺得它相較是民主進步的國家包括美國、德國、法國、英國他們其實都有所謂的聽證調查權\n84685\t106910\t那在這個部分今天中華民國我們在國會可以邁出改革的地步讓國會擁有聽證調查權我個人認為這樣的改革是跟世界接軌是往前邁進但是連這個部分行政院都要提出復議難道院長你不認同國會應該擁有聽證調查權嗎\n110051\t136403\t其他國家有的國會的設計是沒有質詢權而有聽證權所以聽證權就幾乎是代表了國會議員對官員或是一般關係人或是社會上重要的關係人他們對他的一種互動的關係所以有這樣的設計那台灣我們自己我們在人事同意權上面有類似這樣的一個行為但是無論如何他的執行要參照4至585號裡面的規定他應該在特定的範圍之內\n137744\t141573\t舉行他的聽證,他的裡面的這個調查調閱聽證的這個過程都要受到憲法這個設置的上的規定\n146355\t168035\t當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的\n168715\t168895\t王育敏\n183712\t213272\t所謂的這個聽證會我想大家從各大媒體裡面都可以看到美國國會召開聽證會的過程多麼的嚴謹不管你是企業或是個人跟這個案子重大案子相關的人你到了這個聽證會你就必須做真實的陳述我想這樣子才可以達到真的去追求真相然後幫人民把關的目的那這個部分我們可以看到在民意支持度的部分\n214432\t239705\t國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼\n240325\t269028\t代表人民他希望國會是有實權的國會希望人民的國會是可以代表人民真正去監督政府而這樣子的一個民意我希望這個執政黨不要忽視這樣的一個民意今天剛剛有這個民進黨的委員說青鳥他代表青鳥在這個國會這邊要表達他們的聲音但是這個社會不只只有青鳥的聲音\n270389\t296906\t這個社會是多元的聲音而從這樣的民調我們看出來是超過將近六成的民眾其實是支持的而這樣子的一個支持我們可以看到在2016年國會改革在民進黨相關的委員都有提出相關的法案包括我們在座的國防部部長顧立雄部長其實也有提出相關的法案我們現在已經是\n298087\t317705\t作為外交部部長的林佳雄部長其實針對國會改革也都有提出過自己的意見跟看法過去的民進黨我覺得很敢在一些的意見主張上面提出自己的看法我認為這是一個進步的價值但是不要因為換了位置而換了腦袋\n318866\t338663\t就是過去主張國會改革有它的這個正當性包括蔡英文總統都認為國會應該擁有完整的聽證調查權才能落實完整這樣的制度但是怎麼會因為現在是在野黨提出之後通過之後就全盤否定了這樣的一個國會改革\n339844\t341204\t一個立法的過程應該有多種的因素\n365237\t376864\t這一個部分院長先讓我講完齁我還要讓你看一下現在您的搭檔您的副院長鄭麗君副院長過去她擔任立法委員的時候我很認同她講的齁她說要讓立委有更完備的職權包括聽證權與調查權\n384622\t400045\t另外一個他提到了就是如我們要讓國會立委職權更行完備而不是像缺了牙的老虎否則弱勢的國會要如何監督政府\n400866\t430090\t這是鄭麗君副院長在擔任立法委員的時候他在公聽會上面一再強調一定要讓國會擁有聽證權與調查權我覺得他當時講的這個話應該是發自內心的話我不知道他現在立場改變了我希望他沒有這個是大家認為要讓國會賦予他更完整的權利而今天在座的林佳龍部長他當時其實也提到了\n430490\t451479\t就是如果做任何隱匿或虛偽的證實就必須要負刑法上的責任這個是當時林佳龍立法委員他現在是部長當時的主張這個跟國民黨的主張都沒有任何的背離另外一個是現在的監察委員\n452910\t454151\t法律強制性結論也有法律強制性\n468979\t490948\t他一直覺得台灣沒有辦法召開聽證會這個立法委員呢這個就像狗吠火車一樣立法權對上行政權如果沒有任何的這個監督力的話他說我們只是立法委員只是可以叫得比較大聲但是火車還是開走了\n491588\t508660\t這樣的形容很貼切很傳神這個是為什麼立法院這一次的國會改革必須賦予國會議員擁有聽證權跟調查權因為唯有這樣子才可以落實真正的監督\n509580\t527172\t但是本席真的覺得非常的遺憾在關鍵的這一些聽證權、調查權上面現在被抹黑、被誤解、被造謠然後被說成這個是對人民權益的侵害會對多數的人民產生這個\n529493\t552893\t這個權益上面的侵害我覺得這些通通都是背離事實的一個說法今天國會改革我想是讓立法權他的監督權可以更完整這個絕對不是要去凌駕行政權沒有在我們目前的權力分立裡面事實上這個卓院長過去也擔任過立法委員\n553373\t575380\t你現在要擔任院長其實你應該深刻體認到行政權真的是獨大行政權擁有很多的資源其實真的很多民意代表你只能說一說而已對於行政院沒有辦法造成實質的約束力你心裡應該非常的清楚有擔任過民意代表跟擔任過政務官的一定明白這個道理\n575720\t596234\t而今天只是強化了國會的監督權力但是要變成整個社會付出這麼大的社會成本互相對抗今天立法院變成什麼樣子周遭都交通管制還要連續三天還要一再的號召這個社會動員大家來到這裡這個真的是現在執政團隊想要的嗎現在太多的國家的問題需要去解決\n605160\t606201\t謝謝王委員下一位我們請\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我們事實有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。王國勇好。\n主委院長好 院長我先請教你 你剛剛在回答的時候有提到說你是支持國會改革的對不對當然 是的好 那但是你在上午回答這個有委員質詢的時候你這次提出來的覆議案又是所有的條文你通通都覆議 沒有一條是你認同的你不覺得這樣子是蠻矛盾的嗎\n在這次通過的版本裡面真的沒有一個條文它是可以落實的嗎?每一個條文都必須提出覆議嗎?請委員能夠體諒我們這個是最整部法案整部的法案提出覆議希望重新檢測內部因為像剛剛提到的這個它就有條文之間矛盾之處所以我們就整部法案但不需要全部都提覆議啊第一個本席要就教你的\n就是有關於聽證權的部分我們可以看到世界各國我們覺得它相較是民主進步的國家包括美國、德國、法國、英國他們其實都有所謂的聽證調查權\n那在這個部分今天中華民國我們在國會可以邁出改革的地步讓國會擁有聽證調查權我個人認為這樣的改革是跟世界接軌是往前邁進但是連這個部分行政院都要提出復議難道院長你不認同國會應該擁有聽證調查權嗎\n其他國家有的國會的設計是沒有質詢權而有聽證權所以聽證權就幾乎是代表了國會議員對官員或是一般關係人或是社會上重要的關係人他們對他的一種互動的關係所以有這樣的設計那台灣我們自己我們在人事同意權上面有類似這樣的一個行為但是無論如何他的執行要參照4至585號裡面的規定他應該在特定的範圍之內\n舉行他的聽證,他的裡面的這個調查調閱聽證的這個過程都要受到憲法這個設置的上的規定\n當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的\n王育敏\n所謂的這個聽證會我想大家從各大媒體裡面都可以看到美國國會召開聽證會的過程多麼的嚴謹不管你是企業或是個人跟這個案子重大案子相關的人你到了這個聽證會你就必須做真實的陳述我想這樣子才可以達到真的去追求真相然後幫人民把關的目的那這個部分我們可以看到在民意支持度的部分\n國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼\n代表人民他希望國會是有實權的國會希望人民的國會是可以代表人民真正去監督政府而這樣子的一個民意我希望這個執政黨不要忽視這樣的一個民意今天剛剛有這個民進黨的委員說青鳥他代表青鳥在這個國會這邊要表達他們的聲音但是這個社會不只只有青鳥的聲音\n這個社會是多元的聲音而從這樣的民調我們看出來是超過將近六成的民眾其實是支持的而這樣子的一個支持我們可以看到在2016年國會改革在民進黨相關的委員都有提出相關的法案包括我們在座的國防部部長顧立雄部長其實也有提出相關的法案我們現在已經是\n作為外交部部長的林佳雄部長其實針對國會改革也都有提出過自己的意見跟看法過去的民進黨我覺得很敢在一些的意見主張上面提出自己的看法我認為這是一個進步的價值但是不要因為換了位置而換了腦袋\n就是過去主張國會改革有它的這個正當性包括蔡英文總統都認為國會應該擁有完整的聽證調查權才能落實完整這樣的制度但是怎麼會因為現在是在野黨提出之後通過之後就全盤否定了這樣的一個國會改革\n一個立法的過程應該有多種的因素\n這一個部分院長先讓我講完齁我還要讓你看一下現在您的搭檔您的副院長鄭麗君副院長過去她擔任立法委員的時候我很認同她講的齁她說要讓立委有更完備的職權包括聽證權與調查權\n另外一個他提到了就是如我們要讓國會立委職權更行完備而不是像缺了牙的老虎否則弱勢的國會要如何監督政府\n這是鄭麗君副院長在擔任立法委員的時候他在公聽會上面一再強調一定要讓國會擁有聽證權與調查權我覺得他當時講的這個話應該是發自內心的話我不知道他現在立場改變了我希望他沒有這個是大家認為要讓國會賦予他更完整的權利而今天在座的林佳龍部長他當時其實也提到了\n就是如果做任何隱匿或虛偽的證實就必須要負刑法上的責任這個是當時林佳龍立法委員他現在是部長當時的主張這個跟國民黨的主張都沒有任何的背離另外一個是現在的監察委員\n法律強制性結論也有法律強制性\n他一直覺得台灣沒有辦法召開聽證會這個立法委員呢這個就像狗吠火車一樣立法權對上行政權如果沒有任何的這個監督力的話他說我們只是立法委員只是可以叫得比較大聲但是火車還是開走了\n這樣的形容很貼切很傳神這個是為什麼立法院這一次的國會改革必須賦予國會議員擁有聽證權跟調查權因為唯有這樣子才可以落實真正的監督\n但是本席真的覺得非常的遺憾在關鍵的這一些聽證權、調查權上面現在被抹黑、被誤解、被造謠然後被說成這個是對人民權益的侵害會對多數的人民產生這個\n這個權益上面的侵害我覺得這些通通都是背離事實的一個說法今天國會改革我想是讓立法權他的監督權可以更完整這個絕對不是要去凌駕行政權沒有在我們目前的權力分立裡面事實上這個卓院長過去也擔任過立法委員\n你現在要擔任院長其實你應該深刻體認到行政權真的是獨大行政權擁有很多的資源其實真的很多民意代表你只能說一說而已對於行政院沒有辦法造成實質的約束力你心裡應該非常的清楚有擔任過民意代表跟擔任過政務官的一定明白這個道理\n而今天只是強化了國會的監督權力但是要變成整個社會付出這麼大的社會成本互相對抗今天立法院變成什麼樣子周遭都交通管制還要連續三天還要一再的號召這個社會動員大家來到這裡這個真的是現在執政團隊想要的嗎現在太多的國家的問題需要去解決\n謝謝王委員下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.910 --> 00:03.571\n謝謝主席。我們事實有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。王國勇好。\n\n00:16.035 --> 00:40.575\n主委院長好院長我先請教你你剛剛在回答的時候有提到說你是支持國會改革的對不對當然是的好那但是你在上午回答這個有委員質詢的時候你這次提出來的覆議案又是所有的條文你通通都覆議沒有一條是你認同的你不覺得這樣子是蠻矛盾的嗎\n\n00:41.055 --> 01:06.876\n在這次通過的版本裡面真的沒有一個條文它是可以落實的嗎?每一個條文都必須提出覆議嗎?請委員能夠體諒我們這個是最整部法案整部的法案提出覆議希望重新檢測內部因為像剛剛提到的這個它就有條文之間矛盾之處所以我們就整部法案但不需要全部都提覆議啊第一個本席要就教你的\n\n01:07.637 --> 01:22.344\n就是有關於聽證權的部分我們可以看到世界各國我們覺得它相較是民主進步的國家包括美國、德國、法國、英國他們其實都有所謂的聽證調查權\n\n01:24.685 --> 01:46.910\n那在這個部分今天中華民國我們在國會可以邁出改革的地步讓國會擁有聽證調查權我個人認為這樣的改革是跟世界接軌是往前邁進但是連這個部分行政院都要提出復議難道院長你不認同國會應該擁有聽證調查權嗎\n\n01:50.051 --> 02:16.403\n其他國家有的國會的設計是沒有質詢權而有聽證權所以聽證權就幾乎是代表了國會議員對官員或是一般關係人或是社會上重要的關係人他們對他的一種互動的關係所以有這樣的設計那台灣我們自己我們在人事同意權上面有類似這樣的一個行為但是無論如何他的執行要參照4至585號裡面的規定他應該在特定的範圍之內\n\n02:17.744 --> 02:21.573\n舉行他的聽證,他的裡面的這個調查調閱聽證的這個過程都要受到憲法這個設置的上的規定\n\n02:26.355 --> 02:48.035\n當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的\n\n02:48.715 --> 02:48.895\n王育敏\n\n03:03.712 --> 03:33.272\n所謂的這個聽證會我想大家從各大媒體裡面都可以看到美國國會召開聽證會的過程多麼的嚴謹不管你是企業或是個人跟這個案子重大案子相關的人你到了這個聽證會你就必須做真實的陳述我想這樣子才可以達到真的去追求真相然後幫人民把關的目的那這個部分我們可以看到在民意支持度的部分\n\n03:34.432 --> 03:59.705\n國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼\n\n04:00.325 --> 04:29.028\n代表人民他希望國會是有實權的國會希望人民的國會是可以代表人民真正去監督政府而這樣子的一個民意我希望這個執政黨不要忽視這樣的一個民意今天剛剛有這個民進黨的委員說青鳥他代表青鳥在這個國會這邊要表達他們的聲音但是這個社會不只只有青鳥的聲音\n\n04:30.389 --> 04:56.906\n這個社會是多元的聲音而從這樣的民調我們看出來是超過將近六成的民眾其實是支持的而這樣子的一個支持我們可以看到在2016年國會改革在民進黨相關的委員都有提出相關的法案包括我們在座的國防部部長顧立雄部長其實也有提出相關的法案我們現在已經是\n\n04:58.087 --> 05:17.705\n作為外交部部長的林佳雄部長其實針對國會改革也都有提出過自己的意見跟看法過去的民進黨我覺得很敢在一些的意見主張上面提出自己的看法我認為這是一個進步的價值但是不要因為換了位置而換了腦袋\n\n05:18.866 --> 05:38.663\n就是過去主張國會改革有它的這個正當性包括蔡英文總統都認為國會應該擁有完整的聽證調查權才能落實完整這樣的制度但是怎麼會因為現在是在野黨提出之後通過之後就全盤否定了這樣的一個國會改革\n\n05:39.844 --> 05:41.204\n一個立法的過程應該有多種的因素\n\n06:05.237 --> 06:16.864\n這一個部分院長先讓我講完齁我還要讓你看一下現在您的搭檔您的副院長鄭麗君副院長過去她擔任立法委員的時候我很認同她講的齁她說要讓立委有更完備的職權包括聽證權與調查權\n\n06:24.622 --> 06:40.045\n另外一個他提到了就是如我們要讓國會立委職權更行完備而不是像缺了牙的老虎否則弱勢的國會要如何監督政府\n\n06:40.866 --> 07:10.090\n這是鄭麗君副院長在擔任立法委員的時候他在公聽會上面一再強調一定要讓國會擁有聽證權與調查權我覺得他當時講的這個話應該是發自內心的話我不知道他現在立場改變了我希望他沒有這個是大家認為要讓國會賦予他更完整的權利而今天在座的林佳龍部長他當時其實也提到了\n\n07:10.490 --> 07:31.479\n就是如果做任何隱匿或虛偽的證實就必須要負刑法上的責任這個是當時林佳龍立法委員他現在是部長當時的主張這個跟國民黨的主張都沒有任何的背離另外一個是現在的監察委員\n\n07:32.910 --> 07:34.151\n法律強制性結論也有法律強制性\n\n07:48.979 --> 08:10.948\n他一直覺得台灣沒有辦法召開聽證會這個立法委員呢這個就像狗吠火車一樣立法權對上行政權如果沒有任何的這個監督力的話他說我們只是立法委員只是可以叫得比較大聲但是火車還是開走了\n\n08:11.588 --> 08:28.660\n這樣的形容很貼切很傳神這個是為什麼立法院這一次的國會改革必須賦予國會議員擁有聽證權跟調查權因為唯有這樣子才可以落實真正的監督\n\n08:29.580 --> 08:47.172\n但是本席真的覺得非常的遺憾在關鍵的這一些聽證權、調查權上面現在被抹黑、被誤解、被造謠然後被說成這個是對人民權益的侵害會對多數的人民產生這個\n\n08:49.493 --> 09:12.893\n這個權益上面的侵害我覺得這些通通都是背離事實的一個說法今天國會改革我想是讓立法權他的監督權可以更完整這個絕對不是要去凌駕行政權沒有在我們目前的權力分立裡面事實上這個卓院長過去也擔任過立法委員\n\n09:13.373 --> 09:35.380\n你現在要擔任院長其實你應該深刻體認到行政權真的是獨大行政權擁有很多的資源其實真的很多民意代表你只能說一說而已對於行政院沒有辦法造成實質的約束力你心裡應該非常的清楚有擔任過民意代表跟擔任過政務官的一定明白這個道理\n\n09:35.720 --> 09:56.234\n而今天只是強化了國會的監督權力但是要變成整個社會付出這麼大的社會成本互相對抗今天立法院變成什麼樣子周遭都交通管制還要連續三天還要一再的號召這個社會動員大家來到這裡這個真的是現在執政團隊想要的嗎現在太多的國家的問題需要去解決\n\n10:05.160 --> 10:06.201\n謝謝王委員下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.91,"end":3.571,"text":"謝謝主席。我們事實有請卓院長。請卓院長備選。王國勇好。"},{"start":16.035,"end":40.575,"text":"主委院長好 院長我先請教你 你剛剛在回答的時候有提到說你是支持國會改革的對不對當然 是的好 那但是你在上午回答這個有委員質詢的時候你這次提出來的覆議案又是所有的條文你通通都覆議 沒有一條是你認同的你不覺得這樣子是蠻矛盾的嗎"},{"start":41.055,"end":66.876,"text":"在這次通過的版本裡面真的沒有一個條文它是可以落實的嗎?每一個條文都必須提出覆議嗎?請委員能夠體諒我們這個是最整部法案整部的法案提出覆議希望重新檢測內部因為像剛剛提到的這個它就有條文之間矛盾之處所以我們就整部法案但不需要全部都提覆議啊第一個本席要就教你的"},{"start":67.637,"end":82.344,"text":"就是有關於聽證權的部分我們可以看到世界各國我們覺得它相較是民主進步的國家包括美國、德國、法國、英國他們其實都有所謂的聽證調查權"},{"start":84.685,"end":106.91,"text":"那在這個部分今天中華民國我們在國會可以邁出改革的地步讓國會擁有聽證調查權我個人認為這樣的改革是跟世界接軌是往前邁進但是連這個部分行政院都要提出復議難道院長你不認同國會應該擁有聽證調查權嗎"},{"start":110.051,"end":136.403,"text":"其他國家有的國會的設計是沒有質詢權而有聽證權所以聽證權就幾乎是代表了國會議員對官員或是一般關係人或是社會上重要的關係人他們對他的一種互動的關係所以有這樣的設計那台灣我們自己我們在人事同意權上面有類似這樣的一個行為但是無論如何他的執行要參照4至585號裡面的規定他應該在特定的範圍之內"},{"start":137.744,"end":141.573,"text":"舉行他的聽證,他的裡面的這個調查調閱聽證的這個過程都要受到憲法這個設置的上的規定"},{"start":146.355,"end":168.035,"text":"當然在立法院裡面我們通過的聽證調查權也不是漫無目的他有設定範圍立法委員也沒有那麼閒一定是針對人民重大關心的議題才會去召開相關的聽證會立法院也不是365天通通都在開會會把一些不重要的"},{"start":168.715,"end":168.895,"text":"王育敏"},{"start":183.712,"end":213.272,"text":"所謂的這個聽證會我想大家從各大媒體裡面都可以看到美國國會召開聽證會的過程多麼的嚴謹不管你是企業或是個人跟這個案子重大案子相關的人你到了這個聽證會你就必須做真實的陳述我想這樣子才可以達到真的去追求真相然後幫人民把關的目的那這個部分我們可以看到在民意支持度的部分"},{"start":214.432,"end":239.705,"text":"國會改革其實民意支持度一直都是高的無論是在這個法案的審議之前所做的民調或是這個法案已經通過之後最新的台灣民意基金會他所提到的各項支持的比例你都可以看到立法院召開聽證會是將近六成的民眾這麼高的民意他們是支持的這個代表什麼"},{"start":240.325,"end":269.028,"text":"代表人民他希望國會是有實權的國會希望人民的國會是可以代表人民真正去監督政府而這樣子的一個民意我希望這個執政黨不要忽視這樣的一個民意今天剛剛有這個民進黨的委員說青鳥他代表青鳥在這個國會這邊要表達他們的聲音但是這個社會不只只有青鳥的聲音"},{"start":270.389,"end":296.906,"text":"這個社會是多元的聲音而從這樣的民調我們看出來是超過將近六成的民眾其實是支持的而這樣子的一個支持我們可以看到在2016年國會改革在民進黨相關的委員都有提出相關的法案包括我們在座的國防部部長顧立雄部長其實也有提出相關的法案我們現在已經是"},{"start":298.087,"end":317.705,"text":"作為外交部部長的林佳雄部長其實針對國會改革也都有提出過自己的意見跟看法過去的民進黨我覺得很敢在一些的意見主張上面提出自己的看法我認為這是一個進步的價值但是不要因為換了位置而換了腦袋"},{"start":318.866,"end":338.663,"text":"就是過去主張國會改革有它的這個正當性包括蔡英文總統都認為國會應該擁有完整的聽證調查權才能落實完整這樣的制度但是怎麼會因為現在是在野黨提出之後通過之後就全盤否定了這樣的一個國會改革"},{"start":339.844,"end":341.204,"text":"一個立法的過程應該有多種的因素"},{"start":365.237,"end":376.864,"text":"這一個部分院長先讓我講完齁我還要讓你看一下現在您的搭檔您的副院長鄭麗君副院長過去她擔任立法委員的時候我很認同她講的齁她說要讓立委有更完備的職權包括聽證權與調查權"},{"start":384.622,"end":400.045,"text":"另外一個他提到了就是如我們要讓國會立委職權更行完備而不是像缺了牙的老虎否則弱勢的國會要如何監督政府"},{"start":400.866,"end":430.09,"text":"這是鄭麗君副院長在擔任立法委員的時候他在公聽會上面一再強調一定要讓國會擁有聽證權與調查權我覺得他當時講的這個話應該是發自內心的話我不知道他現在立場改變了我希望他沒有這個是大家認為要讓國會賦予他更完整的權利而今天在座的林佳龍部長他當時其實也提到了"},{"start":430.49,"end":451.479,"text":"就是如果做任何隱匿或虛偽的證實就必須要負刑法上的責任這個是當時林佳龍立法委員他現在是部長當時的主張這個跟國民黨的主張都沒有任何的背離另外一個是現在的監察委員"},{"start":452.91,"end":454.151,"text":"法律強制性結論也有法律強制性"},{"start":468.979,"end":490.948,"text":"他一直覺得台灣沒有辦法召開聽證會這個立法委員呢這個就像狗吠火車一樣立法權對上行政權如果沒有任何的這個監督力的話他說我們只是立法委員只是可以叫得比較大聲但是火車還是開走了"},{"start":491.588,"end":508.66,"text":"這樣的形容很貼切很傳神這個是為什麼立法院這一次的國會改革必須賦予國會議員擁有聽證權跟調查權因為唯有這樣子才可以落實真正的監督"},{"start":509.58,"end":527.172,"text":"但是本席真的覺得非常的遺憾在關鍵的這一些聽證權、調查權上面現在被抹黑、被誤解、被造謠然後被說成這個是對人民權益的侵害會對多數的人民產生這個"},{"start":529.493,"end":552.893,"text":"這個權益上面的侵害我覺得這些通通都是背離事實的一個說法今天國會改革我想是讓立法權他的監督權可以更完整這個絕對不是要去凌駕行政權沒有在我們目前的權力分立裡面事實上這個卓院長過去也擔任過立法委員"},{"start":553.373,"end":575.38,"text":"你現在要擔任院長其實你應該深刻體認到行政權真的是獨大行政權擁有很多的資源其實真的很多民意代表你只能說一說而已對於行政院沒有辦法造成實質的約束力你心裡應該非常的清楚有擔任過民意代表跟擔任過政務官的一定明白這個道理"},{"start":575.72,"end":596.234,"text":"而今天只是強化了國會的監督權力但是要變成整個社會付出這麼大的社會成本互相對抗今天立法院變成什麼樣子周遭都交通管制還要連續三天還要一再的號召這個社會動員大家來到這裡這個真的是現在執政團隊想要的嗎現在太多的國家的問題需要去解決"},{"start":605.16,"end":606.201,"text":"謝謝王委員下一位我們請"}]}}}}