{"id":154128,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154128","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ceaf6abec8b4a6dfbb0352f3269255a9dd1cafa7fa6f2715c7a85f0884a927b485483616c827c295ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"14:41:48 - 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是用政治力侵入民間，甚至逾越了司法！"],["主席：接下來請吳宗憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"全院委員會-11-1-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳昭姿","王定宇","徐巧芯","黃珊珊","賴惠員","葉元之","莊瑞雄","林德福","黃捷","王育敏","郭國文","柯志恩","李坤城","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","黃健豪","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","王世堅","吳宗憲","陳俊宇","謝衣鳯","沈伯洋","翁曉玲"],"page_start":301,"meetingDate":["2024-06-20"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00007","1136001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議紀錄","content":"審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十\n一條之一條文等覆議案","agenda_id":"1136001_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"154128","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154128","tool":"pyannote","id":"154128-pyannote"},"job_id":"MKh96YyCKJVcQLew","queued_at":"2024-06-20 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367.09, \"end\": 367.21, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 367.21, \"end\": 367.45, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 367.45, \"end\": 368.57, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.57, \"end\": 368.751, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 368.751, \"end\": 369.431, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 369.431, \"end\": 369.751, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 369.751, \"end\": 370.071, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 370.071, \"end\": 370.491, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 370.491, \"end\": 370.732, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 370.732, \"end\": 371.572, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 371.572, \"end\": 371.712, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 371.712, \"end\": 371.912, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 371.912, \"end\": 372.452, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 372.452, \"end\": 373.213, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 373.213, \"end\": 373.353, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 373.353, \"end\": 373.453, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 373.453, \"end\": 373.553, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 373.553, \"end\": 373.653, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 373.653, \"end\": 373.753, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 373.753, \"end\": 374.113, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 374.113, \"end\": 374.393, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 374.393, \"end\": 374.493, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 374.493, \"end\": 375.514, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"飛\"}, {\"word\": \"撲\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 375.514, \"end\": 375.654, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"野\", \"start\": 375.654, \"end\": 375.714, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 375.714, \"end\": 375.894, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 375.894, \"end\": 376.334, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"摸\", \"start\": 376.334, \"end\": 376.434, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 376.434, \"end\": 376.495, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 376.495, \"end\": 376.615, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"屁\", \"start\": 376.615, \"end\": 376.755, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"股\", \"start\": 376.755, \"end\": 376.775, \"score\": 0.146}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 377.862, \"end\": 399.586, \"text\": \"難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", 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{\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 382.547, \"end\": 382.687, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"逃\", \"start\": 382.687, \"end\": 383.909, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 383.909, \"end\": 384.049, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 384.049, \"end\": 384.149, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 384.149, \"end\": 384.449, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 384.449, \"end\": 385.671, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 385.671, \"end\": 386.071, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"鞭\", \"start\": 386.071, \"end\": 386.632, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"拒\", \"start\": 386.632, \"end\": 387.453, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 387.453, \"end\": 387.833, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 387.833, \"end\": 388.013, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 388.013, \"end\": 388.233, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 388.233, \"end\": 388.394, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 388.394, \"end\": 388.594, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 388.594, \"end\": 389.074, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 389.074, \"end\": 389.214, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 389.214, \"end\": 389.515, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 389.515, \"end\": 389.955, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"器\", \"start\": 389.955, \"end\": 390.095, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 390.095, \"end\": 390.556, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 390.556, \"end\": 392.178, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 392.178, \"end\": 392.338, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", 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\"分\", \"start\": 395.862, \"end\": 395.982, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 395.982, \"end\": 397.003, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 397.003, \"end\": 397.724, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 397.724, \"end\": 398.304, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 398.304, \"end\": 398.625, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 398.625, \"end\": 399.025, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 399.025, \"end\": 399.145, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 399.145, \"end\": 399.245, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 399.245, \"end\": 399.325, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 399.325, \"end\": 399.566, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 399.566, \"end\": 399.586, \"score\": 0.585}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 400.689, \"end\": 422.609, \"text\": \"報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 400.689, \"end\": 400.809, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 400.809, \"end\": 401.41, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 401.41, \"end\": 401.75, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 401.75, \"end\": 401.89, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 401.89, \"end\": 402.13, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 402.13, \"end\": 402.471, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 402.471, \"end\": 402.991, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 402.991, \"end\": 403.191, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 403.191, \"end\": 403.332, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 403.332, \"end\": 403.652, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 403.652, \"end\": 404.112, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 404.112, \"end\": 404.833, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 404.833, \"end\": 404.973, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 404.973, \"end\": 405.313, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 405.313, \"end\": 405.433, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 405.433, \"end\": 405.714, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 405.714, \"end\": 406.134, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 406.134, \"end\": 406.274, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 406.274, \"end\": 406.695, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 406.695, \"end\": 406.895, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 406.895, \"end\": 407.075, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 407.075, \"end\": 407.535, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 407.535, \"end\": 407.876, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 407.876, \"end\": 408.096, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 408.096, \"end\": 409.497, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 409.497, \"end\": 409.797, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 409.797, \"end\": 409.918, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 409.918, \"end\": 409.958, \"score\": 0.513}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 409.958, \"end\": 410.198, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 410.198, \"end\": 410.378, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 410.378, \"end\": 410.498, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.498, \"end\": 411.139, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"揮\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 411.139, \"end\": 411.259, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 411.259, \"end\": 411.519, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 411.519, \"end\": 411.739, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 411.739, \"end\": 411.899, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 411.899, \"end\": 412.1, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 412.1, \"end\": 412.24, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 412.24, \"end\": 412.5, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"恭\", \"start\": 412.5, \"end\": 412.76, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 412.76, \"end\": 413.321, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 413.321, \"end\": 413.621, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 413.621, \"end\": 414.162, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 414.162, \"end\": 414.322, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 414.322, \"end\": 414.442, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 414.442, \"end\": 416.424, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 416.424, \"end\": 416.744, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 416.744, \"end\": 417.124, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 417.124, \"end\": 417.264, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 417.264, \"end\": 417.825, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 417.825, \"end\": 418.225, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 418.225, \"end\": 418.325, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 418.325, \"end\": 418.465, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 418.465, \"end\": 418.866, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 418.866, \"end\": 419.066, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 419.066, \"end\": 419.166, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 419.166, \"end\": 419.306, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"恭\", \"start\": 419.306, \"end\": 419.526, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"喜\", \"start\": 419.526, \"end\": 420.067, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 420.067, \"end\": 420.287, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 420.287, \"end\": 420.567, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.567, \"end\": 420.788, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 420.788, \"end\": 420.908, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 420.908, \"end\": 421.168, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 421.168, \"end\": 421.368, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 421.368, \"end\": 422.089, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 422.089, \"end\": 422.229, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 422.229, \"end\": 422.329, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 422.329, \"end\": 422.469, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 422.469, \"end\": 422.589, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 422.589, \"end\": 422.609, \"score\": 0.996}]}, {\"start\": 424.072, \"end\": 431.152, \"text\": \"絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 424.072, \"end\": 424.212, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 424.212, \"end\": 424.473, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"授\", \"start\": 424.473, \"end\": 425.015, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 425.015, \"end\": 425.155, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 425.155, \"end\": 425.316, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 425.316, \"end\": 426.459, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 426.459, \"end\": 426.599, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 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0.937}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"拳\", \"start\": 602.758, \"end\": 603.438, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 603.438, \"end\": 603.618, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 603.618, \"end\": 603.758, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 603.758, \"end\": 603.898, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 603.898, \"end\": 604.298, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 604.298, \"end\": 604.499, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 604.499, \"end\": 604.659, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 604.659, \"end\": 604.679, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"養\"}]}, {\"start\": 605.376, \"end\": 623.391, \"text\": \"我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 605.376, \"end\": 605.476, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 605.476, \"end\": 605.696, \"score\": 0.997}, 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\"start\": 616.506, \"end\": 616.746, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 616.746, \"end\": 616.906, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 616.906, \"end\": 617.246, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 617.246, \"end\": 617.346, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 617.346, \"end\": 617.927, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 617.927, \"end\": 618.127, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 618.127, \"end\": 618.507, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 618.507, \"end\": 618.647, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 618.647, \"end\": 618.868, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 618.868, \"end\": 619.448, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 619.448, \"end\": 619.608, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 619.608, \"end\": 620.149, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 620.149, \"end\": 620.289, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 620.289, \"end\": 620.389, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 620.389, \"end\": 620.689, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 620.689, \"end\": 620.849, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 620.849, \"end\": 621.029, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 621.029, \"end\": 621.25, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 621.25, \"end\": 622.03, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 622.03, \"end\": 622.27, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 622.27, \"end\": 622.531, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 622.531, \"end\": 622.711, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 622.711, \"end\": 623.031, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 623.031, \"end\": 623.311, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 623.311, \"end\": 623.371, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 623.371, \"end\": 623.391, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,537 --> 00:00:11,859\n好謝謝主席喔卓院長有請請卓院長備詢院長又是一天辛苦了喔這個有沒有關注國際的政治情勢應該多少會掌握對不對這兩天比較少好沒關係喔這最近的大新聞法國的國民議會啊最近馬克宏總統決定要解散國會重新改選請問院長知不知道原因是什麼\n\n2\n00:00:38,519 --> 00:01:03,044\n這跟選舉的結果有關哪個選舉的結果執政黨跟在野黨之間的變化執政黨跟在野黨的變化對,歐洲議會的選舉剛剛結束那有一點爆冷門也不見得是爆冷門就是說這個法國的極右勢力在歐洲議會選舉的選票支持度大幅的成長甚至壓過了執政黨的聯盟這個接近一倍之多所以\n\n3\n00:01:04,325 --> 00:01:20,275\n這個馬克宏認知他那個脆弱多數的國會他作為執政黨的領袖他們的執政聯盟在國會是脆弱的多數恐怕沒有辦法在新的民意的情況之下繼續來服眾所以說即便很多的評論員認為這樣子的一個決策是一場政治的豪賭\n\n4\n00:01:21,556 --> 00:01:32,382\n很有可能讓法國在1997年之後再次出現以前的所謂的左右共治這樣子一個分治政府的一個形態即便有這麼大的一個風險這個馬克宏總統也非得要讓國會的結構跟政府的結構來貼合新的名義\n\n5\n00:01:39,005 --> 00:02:05,745\n因為他認知新的民意產生了,跟現在的結構已經不一樣了。如果他不去做國會的調整,連帶做內閣的重新改組,未來可能會導致法國的憲政僵局。這樣主席跟您剛剛的回答其實精神上是一樣的,所以這說法我可以接受的。那這是人家的民主實踐,是人家的民主精神。我們國家的制度跟法國的第五共和若干的相似,但是差異就在於我們的立法院並沒有隔奎的同意權。\n\n6\n00:02:06,565 --> 00:02:35,384\n所以國會的解散恐怕是換不到內閣像樣的該組人家法國是國會解散內閣一定是全部重組因為法國的國會是有格規的同意權他是整個政府執政跟在野的重新洗牌重新決定但我國不一樣啊對不對總統可以隨時的來做指派我們也無從自會也願意尊重其實這本身就是行政權跟立法權不對等的其中一種樣態也就是因為這樣倒戈跟解散國會一直在中華民國沒有什麼具體的實踐\n\n7\n00:02:36,945 --> 00:02:58,298\n所以回到主軸如果要檢視中華民國的民意脈動跟變化我們還是要回到定期選舉對不對每兩年一次的地方選舉四年一次的地方選舉跟中央的選舉我請教院長如果民進黨之前八年的執政沒有背離民意的話那為什麼會輸掉國會的多數呢院長要回答一下嗎\n\n8\n00:02:59,397 --> 00:03:25,983\n但是民進黨在八年的執政之後賴清德總統繼續掌握中央的執政權這個也是一個不爭的事實當然是不爭的事實阿我非常同意所以您今天站在這個地方嘛對不對這個問題阿我曾經問過陳建仁前院長他花了三分鐘的時間大內宣並沒有回答本席的問題今天因為時間有限我們就不多做探討但本席提供我的觀察本席在2024年的選舉阿我能夠有幸承讓打敗的對手\n\n9\n00:03:26,403 --> 00:03:47,424\n是忠誠的貫徹執政黨意志、民進黨的前幹事長鄭運鵬委員。他背了很多執政的包袱。我在選戰最有力的號召就是強力的監督。就是關切採購的弊案、詐騙的橫行、分配的失衡、政府失靈等等的問題。在2024激烈的選戰中,最後本席得到了人民的認可。\n\n10\n00:03:48,425 --> 00:04:09,224\n新民意的期待其實啊這麼國會結構從民進黨的絕對多數變成現在的三黨不過半難道不是新民意要求民進黨收斂鋒芒要求行政權有所節制更希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這樣才能讓我們的政治更乾淨\n\n11\n00:04:10,205 --> 00:04:31,953\n院長其實我們剛剛所講的新民意的期待也就是這一次國會改革國會正常化這個法案最大的正當性最新的民意調查顯示台灣的社會普遍這個肯定行政院提出覆議案的正當權利所以這是為什麼您今天站在這個地方我們開了兩天的全院委員會\n\n12\n00:04:32,853 --> 00:04:52,904\n按照程序來進行表決這件事情我們非常非常的尊重也非常同意因為這是憲法賦予行政院的正當權利但同時我要請這個院長看一下大家對於法案的內容其實支持都大於反對立法院聽證會支持59.6%公務員藐視國會罪57.5人事同意權行使53.9低的也有49.3等等都高於反對的民意對不對\n\n13\n00:05:02,652 --> 00:05:26,287\n這其實就是呼應本席剛剛所講的新民意期待的是什麼新民意期待的是民進黨執政不能太傲慢我們要稍微收臉鋒芒要稍微有所節制希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這是為什麼我們今天肯定國會改革正常化修法的正當性再來我要跟院長討論法案修正的過程\n\n14\n00:05:27,248 --> 00:05:45,738\n委員會、審查、公聽會、黨團協商基本上都是全程直播公開透明在法案審查期間一場專案報告一場委員會審查三場公聽會一次委員會協商四次院長主持黨團協商以及5月17、21、24、28四天長達八十個小時的馬拉松式二讀逐條討論逐條表決\n\n15\n00:05:52,402 --> 00:06:16,775\n這件事情難免各說各話大家都用自己片面的立場去認為我們認為充分討論了執政端可能認為根本沒有討論這件事情只能可受公平但我要提醒院長我們不要忘記之所以在二讀會的逐條討論沒有辦法多一點時間讓大家各說幾件難道不是第一天執政黨的委員飛撲在野黨的委員還摸人家屁股嗎\n\n16\n00:06:17,862 --> 00:06:39,586\n難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:40,689 --> 00:07:02,609\n報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票\n\n18\n00:07:04,072 --> 00:07:11,152\n絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚\n\n19\n00:07:11,854 --> 00:07:34,697\n我們看起來人民並沒有那麼在乎這樣如果對覆議案有比較多的人支持那內容有不同的表示正好回到立法院好好的來看內容所以我不反對我剛剛都講本席也支持我們覆議案在這個地方把話講清楚但我要請你看民意調查針對內容法條的內容大部分的民意其實是贊成的好那\n\n20\n00:07:35,731 --> 00:07:46,625\n其實剛剛院長也有講所謂的停止討論這個問題沒辦法前面衝突太多大家保護主席台難免做意識攻防但是每一個條文也都有發言吧\n\n21\n00:07:47,349 --> 00:08:06,349\n每一個條文發言的內容其實也要可受公平不是嗎在每一個逐條停止發言前的討論我們聽到的大部分是針對黃國昌委員的攻擊針對傅坤祺委員的攻擊甚至針對韓國瑜院長的辱罵這難道是健康的討論嗎這件事我們就各說各話交給人民來做公平\n\n22\n00:08:06,829 --> 00:08:30,550\n院長,即使不管政策也好、法案也好都不應該以片面的解讀來做全盤的否定意見不合就舉手表決,或者是投票表決民進黨的綠能政策造成綠能蟑螂橫行甚至在賴總統的故鄉台南引發了八十八槍等重大治安事件但我們也不會因為這樣就全盤否定政府去發展太陽光電的正當性\n\n23\n00:08:31,531 --> 00:08:47,100\n縱有饒恕事但是對的事、好的事、簡單的事我們還是可以願意支持的因為凡事總有個比例原則如果我們因為饒恕事就否決政策、否決法案那麼整個政府不管是誰執政都將寸步難行更何況院長\n\n24\n00:08:48,181 --> 00:09:04,826\n這一部《立法院職權行使法》尚未上路我們的內容不應該被斷章取義也不該被惡意推定其實剛剛早上的答詢很多委員都舉出了具體的例子國會的聽證調查權的行使必須建立在社會關注的重大公共議題\n\n25\n00:09:05,766 --> 00:09:32,112\n如果國會隨心所欲忽略正當性忽略內容的專業性不只不會在內部的討論中達成共識腐爛行使權力的國會議員更會遭到民意的反噬舉個例子給您聽美國的國會曾經針對臉書還有TikTok召開聽證尋答過程中國會議員提出了不專業的荒唐問題反過頭來被民意羞辱的案例比比皆是這就是最好的證明\n\n26\n00:09:32,792 --> 00:09:47,468\n剛剛我們談綠能政策已經具體發生弊案我們尚且不會否定政策方向的正確性今天國會改革的法案尚未上路也希望執政黨不要用片面跟惡意推定的方式否定這部法案的正當性\n\n27\n00:09:48,109 --> 00:10:04,679\n本期非常清楚在這個場合不免又是各說各話政治法案針鋒相對立場自始不同我們各自代表不同的民意但院長當意見不合我們是不是應該數人頭而不是數拳頭這是基本的民主素養\n\n28\n00:10:05,376 --> 00:10:23,391\n我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7537\t11859\t好 謝謝主席喔 卓院長有請請卓院長備詢院長 又是一天 辛苦了喔這個 有沒有關注國際的政治情勢應該多少會掌握對不對這兩天比較少好 沒關係喔 這最近的大新聞法國的國民議會啊最近馬克宏總統決定要解散國會 重新改選請問院長知不知道原因是什麼\n38519\t63044\t這跟選舉的結果有關哪個選舉的結果執政黨跟在野黨之間的變化執政黨跟在野黨的變化對,歐洲議會的選舉剛剛結束那有一點爆冷門也不見得是爆冷門就是說這個法國的極右勢力在歐洲議會選舉的選票支持度大幅的成長甚至壓過了執政黨的聯盟這個接近一倍之多所以\n64325\t80275\t這個馬克宏認知他那個脆弱多數的國會他作為執政黨的領袖他們的執政聯盟在國會是脆弱的多數恐怕沒有辦法在新的民意的情況之下繼續來服眾所以說即便很多的評論員認為這樣子的一個決策是一場政治的豪賭\n81556\t92382\t很有可能讓法國在1997年之後再次出現以前的所謂的左右共治這樣子一個分治政府的一個形態即便有這麼大的一個風險這個馬克宏總統也非得要讓國會的結構跟政府的結構來貼合新的名義\n99005\t125745\t因為他認知新的民意產生了,跟現在的結構已經不一樣了。如果他不去做國會的調整,連帶做內閣的重新改組,未來可能會導致法國的憲政僵局。這樣主席跟您剛剛的回答其實精神上是一樣的,所以這說法我可以接受的。那這是人家的民主實踐,是人家的民主精神。我們國家的制度跟法國的第五共和若干的相似,但是差異就在於我們的立法院並沒有隔奎的同意權。\n126565\t155384\t所以國會的解散恐怕是換不到內閣像樣的該組人家法國是國會解散內閣一定是全部重組因為法國的國會是有格規的同意權他是整個政府執政跟在野的重新洗牌重新決定但我國不一樣啊 對不對總統可以隨時的來做指派我們也無從自會也願意尊重其實這本身就是行政權跟立法權不對等的其中一種樣態也就是因為這樣倒戈跟解散國會一直在中華民國沒有什麼具體的實踐\n156945\t178298\t所以回到主軸如果要檢視中華民國的民意脈動跟變化我們還是要回到定期選舉對不對每兩年一次的地方選舉四年一次的地方選舉跟中央的選舉我請教院長如果民進黨之前八年的執政沒有背離民意的話那為什麼會輸掉國會的多數呢院長要回答一下嗎\n179397\t205983\t但是民進黨在八年的執政之後賴清德總統繼續掌握中央的執政權這個也是一個不爭的事實當然是不爭的事實阿我非常同意所以您今天站在這個地方嘛對不對這個問題阿我曾經問過陳建仁前院長他花了三分鐘的時間大內宣並沒有回答本席的問題今天因為時間有限我們就不多做探討但本席提供我的觀察本席在2024年的選舉阿我能夠有幸承讓打敗的對手\n206403\t227424\t是忠誠的貫徹執政黨意志、民進黨的前幹事長鄭運鵬委員。他背了很多執政的包袱。我在選戰最有力的號召就是強力的監督。就是關切採購的弊案、詐騙的橫行、分配的失衡、政府失靈等等的問題。在2024激烈的選戰中,最後本席得到了人民的認可。\n228425\t249224\t新民意的期待其實啊這麼國會結構從民進黨的絕對多數變成現在的三黨不過半難道不是新民意要求民進黨收斂鋒芒要求行政權有所節制更希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這樣才能讓我們的政治更乾淨\n250205\t271953\t院長其實我們剛剛所講的新民意的期待也就是這一次國會改革國會正常化這個法案最大的正當性最新的民意調查顯示台灣的社會普遍這個肯定行政院提出覆議案的正當權利所以這是為什麼您今天站在這個地方我們開了兩天的全院委員會\n272853\t292904\t按照程序來進行表決這件事情我們非常非常的尊重也非常同意因為這是憲法賦予行政院的正當權利但同時我要請這個院長看一下大家對於法案的內容其實支持都大於反對立法院聽證會支持59.6%公務員藐視國會罪57.5人事同意權行使53.9低的也有49.3等等都高於反對的民意對不對\n302652\t326287\t這其實就是呼應本席剛剛所講的新民意期待的是什麼新民意期待的是民進黨執政不能太傲慢我們要稍微收臉鋒芒要稍微有所節制希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這是為什麼我們今天肯定國會改革正常化修法的正當性再來我要跟院長討論法案修正的過程\n327248\t345738\t委員會、審查、公聽會、黨團協商基本上都是全程直播公開透明在法案審查期間一場專案報告一場委員會審查三場公聽會一次委員會協商四次院長主持黨團協商以及5月17、21、24、28四天長達八十個小時的馬拉松式二讀逐條討論逐條表決\n352402\t376775\t這件事情難免各說各話大家都用自己片面的立場去認為我們認為充分討論了執政端可能認為根本沒有討論這件事情只能可受公平但我要提醒院長我們不要忘記之所以在二讀會的逐條討論沒有辦法多一點時間讓大家各說幾件難道不是第一天執政黨的委員飛撲在野黨的委員還摸人家屁股嗎\n377862\t399586\t難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?\n400689\t422609\t報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票\n424072\t431152\t絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚\n431854\t454697\t我們看起來人民並沒有那麼在乎這樣如果對覆議案有比較多的人支持那內容有不同的表示正好回到立法院好好的來看內容所以我不反對我剛剛都講本席也支持我們覆議案在這個地方把話講清楚但我要請你看民意調查針對內容法條的內容大部分的民意其實是贊成的好那\n455731\t466625\t其實剛剛院長也有講所謂的停止討論這個問題沒辦法前面衝突太多大家保護主席台難免做意識攻防但是每一個條文也都有發言吧\n467349\t486349\t每一個條文發言的內容其實也要可受公平不是嗎在每一個逐條停止發言前的討論我們聽到的大部分是針對黃國昌委員的攻擊針對傅坤祺委員的攻擊甚至針對韓國瑜院長的辱罵這難道是健康的討論嗎這件事我們就各說各話交給人民來做公平\n486829\t510550\t院長,即使不管政策也好、法案也好都不應該以片面的解讀來做全盤的否定意見不合就舉手表決,或者是投票表決民進黨的綠能政策造成綠能蟑螂橫行甚至在賴總統的故鄉台南引發了八十八槍等重大治安事件但我們也不會因為這樣就全盤否定政府去發展太陽光電的正當性\n511531\t527100\t縱有饒恕事但是對的事、好的事、簡單的事我們還是可以願意支持的因為凡事總有個比例原則如果我們因為饒恕事就否決政策、否決法案那麼整個政府不管是誰執政都將寸步難行更何況院長\n528181\t544826\t這一部《立法院職權行使法》尚未上路我們的內容不應該被斷章取義也不該被惡意推定其實剛剛早上的答詢很多委員都舉出了具體的例子國會的聽證調查權的行使必須建立在社會關注的重大公共議題\n545766\t572112\t如果國會隨心所欲忽略正當性忽略內容的專業性不只不會在內部的討論中達成共識腐爛行使權力的國會議員更會遭到民意的反噬舉個例子給您聽美國的國會曾經針對臉書還有TikTok召開聽證尋答過程中國會議員提出了不專業的荒唐問題反過頭來被民意羞辱的案例比比皆是這就是最好的證明\n572792\t587468\t剛剛我們談綠能政策已經具體發生弊案我們尚且不會否定政策方向的正確性今天國會改革的法案尚未上路也希望執政黨不要用片面跟惡意推定的方式否定這部法案的正當性\n588109\t604679\t本期非常清楚在這個場合不免又是各說各話政治法案針鋒相對立場自始不同我們各自代表不同的民意但院長當意見不合我們是不是應該數人頭而不是數拳頭這是基本的民主素養\n605376\t623391\t我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席喔 卓院長有請請卓院長備詢院長 又是一天 辛苦了喔這個 有沒有關注國際的政治情勢應該多少會掌握對不對這兩天比較少好 沒關係喔 這最近的大新聞法國的國民議會啊最近馬克宏總統決定要解散國會 重新改選請問院長知不知道原因是什麼\n這跟選舉的結果有關哪個選舉的結果執政黨跟在野黨之間的變化執政黨跟在野黨的變化對,歐洲議會的選舉剛剛結束那有一點爆冷門也不見得是爆冷門就是說這個法國的極右勢力在歐洲議會選舉的選票支持度大幅的成長甚至壓過了執政黨的聯盟這個接近一倍之多所以\n這個馬克宏認知他那個脆弱多數的國會他作為執政黨的領袖他們的執政聯盟在國會是脆弱的多數恐怕沒有辦法在新的民意的情況之下繼續來服眾所以說即便很多的評論員認為這樣子的一個決策是一場政治的豪賭\n很有可能讓法國在1997年之後再次出現以前的所謂的左右共治這樣子一個分治政府的一個形態即便有這麼大的一個風險這個馬克宏總統也非得要讓國會的結構跟政府的結構來貼合新的名義\n因為他認知新的民意產生了,跟現在的結構已經不一樣了。如果他不去做國會的調整,連帶做內閣的重新改組,未來可能會導致法國的憲政僵局。這樣主席跟您剛剛的回答其實精神上是一樣的,所以這說法我可以接受的。那這是人家的民主實踐,是人家的民主精神。我們國家的制度跟法國的第五共和若干的相似,但是差異就在於我們的立法院並沒有隔奎的同意權。\n所以國會的解散恐怕是換不到內閣像樣的該組人家法國是國會解散內閣一定是全部重組因為法國的國會是有格規的同意權他是整個政府執政跟在野的重新洗牌重新決定但我國不一樣啊 對不對總統可以隨時的來做指派我們也無從自會也願意尊重其實這本身就是行政權跟立法權不對等的其中一種樣態也就是因為這樣倒戈跟解散國會一直在中華民國沒有什麼具體的實踐\n所以回到主軸如果要檢視中華民國的民意脈動跟變化我們還是要回到定期選舉對不對每兩年一次的地方選舉四年一次的地方選舉跟中央的選舉我請教院長如果民進黨之前八年的執政沒有背離民意的話那為什麼會輸掉國會的多數呢院長要回答一下嗎\n但是民進黨在八年的執政之後賴清德總統繼續掌握中央的執政權這個也是一個不爭的事實當然是不爭的事實阿我非常同意所以您今天站在這個地方嘛對不對這個問題阿我曾經問過陳建仁前院長他花了三分鐘的時間大內宣並沒有回答本席的問題今天因為時間有限我們就不多做探討但本席提供我的觀察本席在2024年的選舉阿我能夠有幸承讓打敗的對手\n是忠誠的貫徹執政黨意志、民進黨的前幹事長鄭運鵬委員。他背了很多執政的包袱。我在選戰最有力的號召就是強力的監督。就是關切採購的弊案、詐騙的橫行、分配的失衡、政府失靈等等的問題。在2024激烈的選戰中,最後本席得到了人民的認可。\n新民意的期待其實啊這麼國會結構從民進黨的絕對多數變成現在的三黨不過半難道不是新民意要求民進黨收斂鋒芒要求行政權有所節制更希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這樣才能讓我們的政治更乾淨\n院長其實我們剛剛所講的新民意的期待也就是這一次國會改革國會正常化這個法案最大的正當性最新的民意調查顯示台灣的社會普遍這個肯定行政院提出覆議案的正當權利所以這是為什麼您今天站在這個地方我們開了兩天的全院委員會\n按照程序來進行表決這件事情我們非常非常的尊重也非常同意因為這是憲法賦予行政院的正當權利但同時我要請這個院長看一下大家對於法案的內容其實支持都大於反對立法院聽證會支持59.6%公務員藐視國會罪57.5人事同意權行使53.9低的也有49.3等等都高於反對的民意對不對\n這其實就是呼應本席剛剛所講的新民意期待的是什麼新民意期待的是民進黨執政不能太傲慢我們要稍微收臉鋒芒要稍微有所節制希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這是為什麼我們今天肯定國會改革正常化修法的正當性再來我要跟院長討論法案修正的過程\n委員會、審查、公聽會、黨團協商基本上都是全程直播公開透明在法案審查期間一場專案報告一場委員會審查三場公聽會一次委員會協商四次院長主持黨團協商以及5月17、21、24、28四天長達八十個小時的馬拉松式二讀逐條討論逐條表決\n這件事情難免各說各話大家都用自己片面的立場去認為我們認為充分討論了執政端可能認為根本沒有討論這件事情只能可受公平但我要提醒院長我們不要忘記之所以在二讀會的逐條討論沒有辦法多一點時間讓大家各說幾件難道不是第一天執政黨的委員飛撲在野黨的委員還摸人家屁股嗎\n難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?\n報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票\n絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚\n我們看起來人民並沒有那麼在乎這樣如果對覆議案有比較多的人支持那內容有不同的表示正好回到立法院好好的來看內容所以我不反對我剛剛都講本席也支持我們覆議案在這個地方把話講清楚但我要請你看民意調查針對內容法條的內容大部分的民意其實是贊成的好那\n其實剛剛院長也有講所謂的停止討論這個問題沒辦法前面衝突太多大家保護主席台難免做意識攻防但是每一個條文也都有發言吧\n每一個條文發言的內容其實也要可受公平不是嗎在每一個逐條停止發言前的討論我們聽到的大部分是針對黃國昌委員的攻擊針對傅坤祺委員的攻擊甚至針對韓國瑜院長的辱罵這難道是健康的討論嗎這件事我們就各說各話交給人民來做公平\n院長,即使不管政策也好、法案也好都不應該以片面的解讀來做全盤的否定意見不合就舉手表決,或者是投票表決民進黨的綠能政策造成綠能蟑螂橫行甚至在賴總統的故鄉台南引發了八十八槍等重大治安事件但我們也不會因為這樣就全盤否定政府去發展太陽光電的正當性\n縱有饒恕事但是對的事、好的事、簡單的事我們還是可以願意支持的因為凡事總有個比例原則如果我們因為饒恕事就否決政策、否決法案那麼整個政府不管是誰執政都將寸步難行更何況院長\n這一部《立法院職權行使法》尚未上路我們的內容不應該被斷章取義也不該被惡意推定其實剛剛早上的答詢很多委員都舉出了具體的例子國會的聽證調查權的行使必須建立在社會關注的重大公共議題\n如果國會隨心所欲忽略正當性忽略內容的專業性不只不會在內部的討論中達成共識腐爛行使權力的國會議員更會遭到民意的反噬舉個例子給您聽美國的國會曾經針對臉書還有TikTok召開聽證尋答過程中國會議員提出了不專業的荒唐問題反過頭來被民意羞辱的案例比比皆是這就是最好的證明\n剛剛我們談綠能政策已經具體發生弊案我們尚且不會否定政策方向的正確性今天國會改革的法案尚未上路也希望執政黨不要用片面跟惡意推定的方式否定這部法案的正當性\n本期非常清楚在這個場合不免又是各說各話政治法案針鋒相對立場自始不同我們各自代表不同的民意但院長當意見不合我們是不是應該數人頭而不是數拳頭這是基本的民主素養\n我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.537 --> 00:11.859\n好謝謝主席喔卓院長有請請卓院長備詢院長又是一天辛苦了喔這個有沒有關注國際的政治情勢應該多少會掌握對不對這兩天比較少好沒關係喔這最近的大新聞法國的國民議會啊最近馬克宏總統決定要解散國會重新改選請問院長知不知道原因是什麼\n\n00:38.519 --> 01:03.044\n這跟選舉的結果有關哪個選舉的結果執政黨跟在野黨之間的變化執政黨跟在野黨的變化對,歐洲議會的選舉剛剛結束那有一點爆冷門也不見得是爆冷門就是說這個法國的極右勢力在歐洲議會選舉的選票支持度大幅的成長甚至壓過了執政黨的聯盟這個接近一倍之多所以\n\n01:04.325 --> 01:20.275\n這個馬克宏認知他那個脆弱多數的國會他作為執政黨的領袖他們的執政聯盟在國會是脆弱的多數恐怕沒有辦法在新的民意的情況之下繼續來服眾所以說即便很多的評論員認為這樣子的一個決策是一場政治的豪賭\n\n01:21.556 --> 01:32.382\n很有可能讓法國在1997年之後再次出現以前的所謂的左右共治這樣子一個分治政府的一個形態即便有這麼大的一個風險這個馬克宏總統也非得要讓國會的結構跟政府的結構來貼合新的名義\n\n01:39.005 --> 02:05.745\n因為他認知新的民意產生了,跟現在的結構已經不一樣了。如果他不去做國會的調整,連帶做內閣的重新改組,未來可能會導致法國的憲政僵局。這樣主席跟您剛剛的回答其實精神上是一樣的,所以這說法我可以接受的。那這是人家的民主實踐,是人家的民主精神。我們國家的制度跟法國的第五共和若干的相似,但是差異就在於我們的立法院並沒有隔奎的同意權。\n\n02:06.565 --> 02:35.384\n所以國會的解散恐怕是換不到內閣像樣的該組人家法國是國會解散內閣一定是全部重組因為法國的國會是有格規的同意權他是整個政府執政跟在野的重新洗牌重新決定但我國不一樣啊對不對總統可以隨時的來做指派我們也無從自會也願意尊重其實這本身就是行政權跟立法權不對等的其中一種樣態也就是因為這樣倒戈跟解散國會一直在中華民國沒有什麼具體的實踐\n\n02:36.945 --> 02:58.298\n所以回到主軸如果要檢視中華民國的民意脈動跟變化我們還是要回到定期選舉對不對每兩年一次的地方選舉四年一次的地方選舉跟中央的選舉我請教院長如果民進黨之前八年的執政沒有背離民意的話那為什麼會輸掉國會的多數呢院長要回答一下嗎\n\n02:59.397 --> 03:25.983\n但是民進黨在八年的執政之後賴清德總統繼續掌握中央的執政權這個也是一個不爭的事實當然是不爭的事實阿我非常同意所以您今天站在這個地方嘛對不對這個問題阿我曾經問過陳建仁前院長他花了三分鐘的時間大內宣並沒有回答本席的問題今天因為時間有限我們就不多做探討但本席提供我的觀察本席在2024年的選舉阿我能夠有幸承讓打敗的對手\n\n03:26.403 --> 03:47.424\n是忠誠的貫徹執政黨意志、民進黨的前幹事長鄭運鵬委員。他背了很多執政的包袱。我在選戰最有力的號召就是強力的監督。就是關切採購的弊案、詐騙的橫行、分配的失衡、政府失靈等等的問題。在2024激烈的選戰中,最後本席得到了人民的認可。\n\n03:48.425 --> 04:09.224\n新民意的期待其實啊這麼國會結構從民進黨的絕對多數變成現在的三黨不過半難道不是新民意要求民進黨收斂鋒芒要求行政權有所節制更希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這樣才能讓我們的政治更乾淨\n\n04:10.205 --> 04:31.953\n院長其實我們剛剛所講的新民意的期待也就是這一次國會改革國會正常化這個法案最大的正當性最新的民意調查顯示台灣的社會普遍這個肯定行政院提出覆議案的正當權利所以這是為什麼您今天站在這個地方我們開了兩天的全院委員會\n\n04:32.853 --> 04:52.904\n按照程序來進行表決這件事情我們非常非常的尊重也非常同意因為這是憲法賦予行政院的正當權利但同時我要請這個院長看一下大家對於法案的內容其實支持都大於反對立法院聽證會支持59.6%公務員藐視國會罪57.5人事同意權行使53.9低的也有49.3等等都高於反對的民意對不對\n\n05:02.652 --> 05:26.287\n這其實就是呼應本席剛剛所講的新民意期待的是什麼新民意期待的是民進黨執政不能太傲慢我們要稍微收臉鋒芒要稍微有所節制希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這是為什麼我們今天肯定國會改革正常化修法的正當性再來我要跟院長討論法案修正的過程\n\n05:27.248 --> 05:45.738\n委員會、審查、公聽會、黨團協商基本上都是全程直播公開透明在法案審查期間一場專案報告一場委員會審查三場公聽會一次委員會協商四次院長主持黨團協商以及5月17、21、24、28四天長達八十個小時的馬拉松式二讀逐條討論逐條表決\n\n05:52.402 --> 06:16.775\n這件事情難免各說各話大家都用自己片面的立場去認為我們認為充分討論了執政端可能認為根本沒有討論這件事情只能可受公平但我要提醒院長我們不要忘記之所以在二讀會的逐條討論沒有辦法多一點時間讓大家各說幾件難道不是第一天執政黨的委員飛撲在野黨的委員還摸人家屁股嗎\n\n06:17.862 --> 06:39.586\n難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?\n\n06:40.689 --> 07:02.609\n報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票\n\n07:04.072 --> 07:11.152\n絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚\n\n07:11.854 --> 07:34.697\n我們看起來人民並沒有那麼在乎這樣如果對覆議案有比較多的人支持那內容有不同的表示正好回到立法院好好的來看內容所以我不反對我剛剛都講本席也支持我們覆議案在這個地方把話講清楚但我要請你看民意調查針對內容法條的內容大部分的民意其實是贊成的好那\n\n07:35.731 --> 07:46.625\n其實剛剛院長也有講所謂的停止討論這個問題沒辦法前面衝突太多大家保護主席台難免做意識攻防但是每一個條文也都有發言吧\n\n07:47.349 --> 08:06.349\n每一個條文發言的內容其實也要可受公平不是嗎在每一個逐條停止發言前的討論我們聽到的大部分是針對黃國昌委員的攻擊針對傅坤祺委員的攻擊甚至針對韓國瑜院長的辱罵這難道是健康的討論嗎這件事我們就各說各話交給人民來做公平\n\n08:06.829 --> 08:30.550\n院長,即使不管政策也好、法案也好都不應該以片面的解讀來做全盤的否定意見不合就舉手表決,或者是投票表決民進黨的綠能政策造成綠能蟑螂橫行甚至在賴總統的故鄉台南引發了八十八槍等重大治安事件但我們也不會因為這樣就全盤否定政府去發展太陽光電的正當性\n\n08:31.531 --> 08:47.100\n縱有饒恕事但是對的事、好的事、簡單的事我們還是可以願意支持的因為凡事總有個比例原則如果我們因為饒恕事就否決政策、否決法案那麼整個政府不管是誰執政都將寸步難行更何況院長\n\n08:48.181 --> 09:04.826\n這一部《立法院職權行使法》尚未上路我們的內容不應該被斷章取義也不該被惡意推定其實剛剛早上的答詢很多委員都舉出了具體的例子國會的聽證調查權的行使必須建立在社會關注的重大公共議題\n\n09:05.766 --> 09:32.112\n如果國會隨心所欲忽略正當性忽略內容的專業性不只不會在內部的討論中達成共識腐爛行使權力的國會議員更會遭到民意的反噬舉個例子給您聽美國的國會曾經針對臉書還有TikTok召開聽證尋答過程中國會議員提出了不專業的荒唐問題反過頭來被民意羞辱的案例比比皆是這就是最好的證明\n\n09:32.792 --> 09:47.468\n剛剛我們談綠能政策已經具體發生弊案我們尚且不會否定政策方向的正確性今天國會改革的法案尚未上路也希望執政黨不要用片面跟惡意推定的方式否定這部法案的正當性\n\n09:48.109 --> 10:04.679\n本期非常清楚在這個場合不免又是各說各話政治法案針鋒相對立場自始不同我們各自代表不同的民意但院長當意見不合我們是不是應該數人頭而不是數拳頭這是基本的民主素養\n\n10:05.376 --> 10:23.391\n我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.537,"end":11.859,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔 卓院長有請請卓院長備詢院長 又是一天 辛苦了喔這個 有沒有關注國際的政治情勢應該多少會掌握對不對這兩天比較少好 沒關係喔 這最近的大新聞法國的國民議會啊最近馬克宏總統決定要解散國會 重新改選請問院長知不知道原因是什麼"},{"start":38.519,"end":63.044,"text":"這跟選舉的結果有關哪個選舉的結果執政黨跟在野黨之間的變化執政黨跟在野黨的變化對,歐洲議會的選舉剛剛結束那有一點爆冷門也不見得是爆冷門就是說這個法國的極右勢力在歐洲議會選舉的選票支持度大幅的成長甚至壓過了執政黨的聯盟這個接近一倍之多所以"},{"start":64.325,"end":80.275,"text":"這個馬克宏認知他那個脆弱多數的國會他作為執政黨的領袖他們的執政聯盟在國會是脆弱的多數恐怕沒有辦法在新的民意的情況之下繼續來服眾所以說即便很多的評論員認為這樣子的一個決策是一場政治的豪賭"},{"start":81.556,"end":92.382,"text":"很有可能讓法國在1997年之後再次出現以前的所謂的左右共治這樣子一個分治政府的一個形態即便有這麼大的一個風險這個馬克宏總統也非得要讓國會的結構跟政府的結構來貼合新的名義"},{"start":99.005,"end":125.745,"text":"因為他認知新的民意產生了,跟現在的結構已經不一樣了。如果他不去做國會的調整,連帶做內閣的重新改組,未來可能會導致法國的憲政僵局。這樣主席跟您剛剛的回答其實精神上是一樣的,所以這說法我可以接受的。那這是人家的民主實踐,是人家的民主精神。我們國家的制度跟法國的第五共和若干的相似,但是差異就在於我們的立法院並沒有隔奎的同意權。"},{"start":126.565,"end":155.384,"text":"所以國會的解散恐怕是換不到內閣像樣的該組人家法國是國會解散內閣一定是全部重組因為法國的國會是有格規的同意權他是整個政府執政跟在野的重新洗牌重新決定但我國不一樣啊 對不對總統可以隨時的來做指派我們也無從自會也願意尊重其實這本身就是行政權跟立法權不對等的其中一種樣態也就是因為這樣倒戈跟解散國會一直在中華民國沒有什麼具體的實踐"},{"start":156.945,"end":178.298,"text":"所以回到主軸如果要檢視中華民國的民意脈動跟變化我們還是要回到定期選舉對不對每兩年一次的地方選舉四年一次的地方選舉跟中央的選舉我請教院長如果民進黨之前八年的執政沒有背離民意的話那為什麼會輸掉國會的多數呢院長要回答一下嗎"},{"start":179.397,"end":205.983,"text":"但是民進黨在八年的執政之後賴清德總統繼續掌握中央的執政權這個也是一個不爭的事實當然是不爭的事實阿我非常同意所以您今天站在這個地方嘛對不對這個問題阿我曾經問過陳建仁前院長他花了三分鐘的時間大內宣並沒有回答本席的問題今天因為時間有限我們就不多做探討但本席提供我的觀察本席在2024年的選舉阿我能夠有幸承讓打敗的對手"},{"start":206.403,"end":227.424,"text":"是忠誠的貫徹執政黨意志、民進黨的前幹事長鄭運鵬委員。他背了很多執政的包袱。我在選戰最有力的號召就是強力的監督。就是關切採購的弊案、詐騙的橫行、分配的失衡、政府失靈等等的問題。在2024激烈的選戰中,最後本席得到了人民的認可。"},{"start":228.425,"end":249.224,"text":"新民意的期待其實啊這麼國會結構從民進黨的絕對多數變成現在的三黨不過半難道不是新民意要求民進黨收斂鋒芒要求行政權有所節制更希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這樣才能讓我們的政治更乾淨"},{"start":250.205,"end":271.953,"text":"院長其實我們剛剛所講的新民意的期待也就是這一次國會改革國會正常化這個法案最大的正當性最新的民意調查顯示台灣的社會普遍這個肯定行政院提出覆議案的正當權利所以這是為什麼您今天站在這個地方我們開了兩天的全院委員會"},{"start":272.853,"end":292.904,"text":"按照程序來進行表決這件事情我們非常非常的尊重也非常同意因為這是憲法賦予行政院的正當權利但同時我要請這個院長看一下大家對於法案的內容其實支持都大於反對立法院聽證會支持59.6%公務員藐視國會罪57.5人事同意權行使53.9低的也有49.3等等都高於反對的民意對不對"},{"start":302.652,"end":326.287,"text":"這其實就是呼應本席剛剛所講的新民意期待的是什麼新民意期待的是民進黨執政不能太傲慢我們要稍微收臉鋒芒要稍微有所節制希望立法權發揮強而有力的監督力量這是為什麼我們今天肯定國會改革正常化修法的正當性再來我要跟院長討論法案修正的過程"},{"start":327.248,"end":345.738,"text":"委員會、審查、公聽會、黨團協商基本上都是全程直播公開透明在法案審查期間一場專案報告一場委員會審查三場公聽會一次委員會協商四次院長主持黨團協商以及5月17、21、24、28四天長達八十個小時的馬拉松式二讀逐條討論逐條表決"},{"start":352.402,"end":376.775,"text":"這件事情難免各說各話大家都用自己片面的立場去認為我們認為充分討論了執政端可能認為根本沒有討論這件事情只能可受公平但我要提醒院長我們不要忘記之所以在二讀會的逐條討論沒有辦法多一點時間讓大家各說幾件難道不是第一天執政黨的委員飛撲在野黨的委員還摸人家屁股嗎"},{"start":377.862,"end":399.586,"text":"難道不是部分的委員搶奪議事人員的文件奪門而逃嗎?難道不是執政黨黨團的黨鞭拒絕簽署大家回位置使用表決器的協商結論嗎?我們在二讀會八十個小時的過程中沒有辦法充分的來對話這些問題院長難道執政黨沒有一些責任嗎?"},{"start":400.689,"end":422.609,"text":"報告委員在審查的過程當中我早上有提過最常聽到的兩句話就是條文保留跟停止討論這個讓委員沒有辦法充分的發揮第二點容許我向委員恭喜委員能夠經過民意的選擇投下一票來讓你當選立法委員都值得恭喜但是我們都必須清楚當初的那一票"},{"start":424.072,"end":431.152,"text":"絕對不是授權立法委員創設自己的權力對行政權、司法權、監察權的侵害這個我們要搞清楚"},{"start":431.854,"end":454.697,"text":"我們看起來人民並沒有那麼在乎這樣如果對覆議案有比較多的人支持那內容有不同的表示正好回到立法院好好的來看內容所以我不反對我剛剛都講本席也支持我們覆議案在這個地方把話講清楚但我要請你看民意調查針對內容法條的內容大部分的民意其實是贊成的好那"},{"start":455.731,"end":466.625,"text":"其實剛剛院長也有講所謂的停止討論這個問題沒辦法前面衝突太多大家保護主席台難免做意識攻防但是每一個條文也都有發言吧"},{"start":467.349,"end":486.349,"text":"每一個條文發言的內容其實也要可受公平不是嗎在每一個逐條停止發言前的討論我們聽到的大部分是針對黃國昌委員的攻擊針對傅坤祺委員的攻擊甚至針對韓國瑜院長的辱罵這難道是健康的討論嗎這件事我們就各說各話交給人民來做公平"},{"start":486.829,"end":510.55,"text":"院長,即使不管政策也好、法案也好都不應該以片面的解讀來做全盤的否定意見不合就舉手表決,或者是投票表決民進黨的綠能政策造成綠能蟑螂橫行甚至在賴總統的故鄉台南引發了八十八槍等重大治安事件但我們也不會因為這樣就全盤否定政府去發展太陽光電的正當性"},{"start":511.531,"end":527.1,"text":"縱有饒恕事但是對的事、好的事、簡單的事我們還是可以願意支持的因為凡事總有個比例原則如果我們因為饒恕事就否決政策、否決法案那麼整個政府不管是誰執政都將寸步難行更何況院長"},{"start":528.181,"end":544.826,"text":"這一部《立法院職權行使法》尚未上路我們的內容不應該被斷章取義也不該被惡意推定其實剛剛早上的答詢很多委員都舉出了具體的例子國會的聽證調查權的行使必須建立在社會關注的重大公共議題"},{"start":545.766,"end":572.112,"text":"如果國會隨心所欲忽略正當性忽略內容的專業性不只不會在內部的討論中達成共識腐爛行使權力的國會議員更會遭到民意的反噬舉個例子給您聽美國的國會曾經針對臉書還有TikTok召開聽證尋答過程中國會議員提出了不專業的荒唐問題反過頭來被民意羞辱的案例比比皆是這就是最好的證明"},{"start":572.792,"end":587.468,"text":"剛剛我們談綠能政策已經具體發生弊案我們尚且不會否定政策方向的正確性今天國會改革的法案尚未上路也希望執政黨不要用片面跟惡意推定的方式否定這部法案的正當性"},{"start":588.109,"end":604.679,"text":"本期非常清楚在這個場合不免又是各說各話政治法案針鋒相對立場自始不同我們各自代表不同的民意但院長當意見不合我們是不是應該數人頭而不是數拳頭這是基本的民主素養"},{"start":605.376,"end":623.391,"text":"我想不管是2024的選舉結果或者是最新的民意調查誰是多數誰是少數清楚明白本席同意透過覆議案的程序充分答詢再行表決但最後我要說民主不是民進黨做主請行政院拿出民主風範接受投票結果以上謝謝"}]}}}}