{"id":154165,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154165","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63224dc0dd2f91fb2a03269d93d135854c867c7a3ae89c54fca685e446a57a38b6542863091eb3de5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"09:03:33 - 09:19:11","影片長度":"00:15:38","會議時間":"2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）\n二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）\n三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-25","start_time":"2024-06-25T09:03:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-25T09:19:11+08:00","duration":938,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議","id":"院會-11-1-19","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":19,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（9時3分）謝謝主席，請行政院卓院長跟內政部劉部長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢，還有內政部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長好，部長好。院長，一開始來跟你討論幾個客觀數字，近五年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人，但臺中市逆勢增加4.6萬人。我們來看的話，其實臺中市的人口從不少縣市移入，包含周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入，以及來自全國各地，包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人。我們看到前五名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄中，新北、臺北、高雄移入的人口是9,282人，彰化、南投移入的是1萬1,000多人，所以整體來講可以肯定，臺中市的人口增加可能跟本身推動很多重大建設，還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係。","今天我特別提到臺中市的人口成長，第一個，因為臺中市人口逐漸增加，所以有很多重大建設也都需要中央來幫忙，所以今天第一點，我要感謝行政院推動永續提升行人安全計畫，在前幾週核定，臺中的確拿到非常多的經費，核定五億多的經費，我想這個第一個感謝。第二個要拜託，一樣的邏輯，臺中市有這麼多的移入人口，全國在減少，但臺中在增加，尤其在我個人的選區裡面增加比例是最高的情況下，我們當然要拜託這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面，行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中？因為這麼多人移入，我也特別重視行人安全。我們可以看到，尤其是人口結構上來講，很多都是所謂年輕家庭，年輕家庭就會有小孩，其實小孩的問題最擔心的就是他的通學步道、他的行人安全，這些都是很多年輕家庭最重視的生活細節，這個雖然沒有很政治，但都是人民最關心的民生問題。所以我想問行政院跟內政部，在接下來二階段，也是所謂的永續提升行人安全計畫裡面，是不是能夠繼續來支持，讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝黃委員的關心，對於行人安全的永續計畫，本來就沒有政黨的差別，臺中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的都市，行人安全計畫裡面，我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多，包括在黃委員的選區裡面有相當多的計畫，未來如果有需求的話，我們會用滾動式的方式繼續增加這方面的補助。目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部，尤其以我們的國土管理署為主，所以我們要到地方政府來做會勘，包括在校園的安全、行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善，屬於硬體設備改善的部分，都是由國土管理署跟臺中市政府一起來合作、來改善。我們很希望在短期之內就能達成這樣的目標，像目前行政院已經核定全臺灣大概有799處，我想臺中市的比例算相當地高，尤其是六都裡面，所以我們來繼續加油。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，謝謝，也拜託院長，因為臺中現在第一個當然是推動大眾運輸，這在交通業務質詢的時候我會來拜託，也會來要求，但是大眾運輸做完之後，最重要的就是最後一哩路要怎麼走完？怎麼從大眾運輸的節點走到他家裡面？這個就需要很完善的道路安全、行人安全系統。當然，臺灣在這件事情上面，這幾年開始關注，其他先進國家做這些事情做了很多年，我們現在才開始要做，要做多久？不知道。但是我拜託，按照人口比例、按照城市發展的結構來看，臺中應該是行政院協助做行人安全的重點城市，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，剛剛部長所說的，全國易肇事路口799處，我已經要求他三個月內要完成半數，到年底之前要全數完成，其中如果在委員的臺中大都會區裡面有重要的路口，也請委員指示，我們能夠列為這個順序來辦理，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長、謝謝部長。談完行人安全，我也來談一下房價的問題。先提供幾個客觀數字，全國六都，包含新竹縣市的房價所得比逐年……當然每年這個數字……如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右，其實全國的房價所得比上漲非常、非常多，我想這也是一個客觀的事實。當然政府一直說要打房，我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房，但是我們可以看到房價卻是越打越高，從當初的房地合一稅上路之後，我們包含政府，大家都期待房價會因為房地合一稅上路之後而有明顯地下降，即使沒有下降，至少持平，但是不只沒有持平，從這個數字可以看到，曲線圖是快速地在成長。","其實我認為大家推動相關的政策，本意、立意都是良善的，但是今天為什麼打房會越打越高？我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考，就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房？因為你打房，我想最核心的問題是你今天在跟資本市場對做，當然理論上來講，我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具、工具，這是理論上，但實際上臺灣社會的現狀裡面，房價為什麼會越打越高？我覺得是因為某種程度上變成是資本市場資金轉進的方向，所以你不斷地推動更多的政策，其實某種程度上是在跟資本市場來對做。所以居住正義的問題要怎麼解決？接下來要繼續跟院長和部長討論。在討論之前，我想先請問部長跟院長，除了打房、打壓房價之外，你們覺得還有什麼樣的政策角度可以解決高房價問題？"],["劉部長世芳：我先回應好嗎？"],["黃委員健豪：可以，兩位都可以回答。"],["劉部長世芳：我想大家都知道，不只房地合一稅，其實比較重要的是平均地權，在我們修改之後，對於房地或房價是有一波稍微緩和的效果，但是大家也知道，房價越打越高有很多因素，大概第一個，臺灣的經濟現在真的非常暢旺；另外就是大部分臺灣居民會覺得房子不是只有自己住，有的人覺得房子可以拿來當成投資生財的工具。其實所謂的打炒房，目前政府的方向大概會以這個為主。","我跟委員報告，我想委員也是年輕人，一定非常關心現在所謂的新青安貸款，新青安貸款是一個相當不錯的政策，我們是為了年輕人、為了剛入社會的這些人可以用比較平價的方式取得房子，我們的立意良善，所以包括中央銀行、財政部、金管會，還有內政部，大家都有一致的立場，希望協助年輕人可以很快速取得平價居住的房子，但是有的人，包括一些不肖業者，甚至網紅，卻把它當成炒作的工具，利用人頭戶，或是利用相關條件裡面的部分……"],["黃委員健豪：部長，抱歉，我打斷一下，其實我認為政府推動政策都是立意良善……"],["劉部長世芳：是，謝謝支持。"],["黃委員健豪：但這是自由資本市場，你們提出政策之後，當然大家會想盡辦法，我剛剛也提到，如果他們把房子視為資本工具，當政府推出各項政策丟到市場時，當然它很有可能馬上變成另外一項投機炒作的工具……"],["劉部長世芳：是，所以有檢討的空間。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，房價高高低低有很多因素，建築、土地成本，還有就是群聚形成，譬如科技園區、高科技工業區等等都有可能；另外就是都會區的形成，像臺中都會區一形成之後，就往都會區集中。"],["黃委員健豪：沒錯。"],["卓院長榮泰：我也認為打是要打不法，我們打擊犯罪、打擊毒品才叫打，房子本身沒有罪，所以應該正名，此後就是打炒房，有炒房的行為我們絕對打，但是房屋的價值，一方面是社會、市場的成本，一方面政府用公共政策把它平抑下去，所以不是打房，是打炒房。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長，既然談到公共政策，我要提的是除了打房之外，因為房價現階段就還是這個價格，所以政府的邏輯或政府出發的政策角度，應該是讓年輕人、讓多數的國民有權利、有地方可以住，是吧？我們的共識是不是這樣子？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["黃委員健豪：好，如果這個是共識的話，我們看一下社會住宅的問題。臺灣很多的理論都說社會住宅基本存量是5%，我想這個數字是參考日本的數字，所以是5%，其實各先進國家，不管美國、新加坡，甚至是韓國，亞洲國家當然數量相對比較低，歐洲國家、社會福利比較好的國家，它的比率比較高，但5%是現在社會的共識。回到臺灣現在的狀況來看，針對全國社會住宅興辦進度的狀況，今年年初我也曾經詢問過前院長這個問題，唯一更動的標準只是那時候是1月底，而現在是5月31日的達成數。到目前為止，全國實際由中央興建社宅而可以入住的有三萬多戶，這個比率跟本來預計要達到的十二萬戶還是有一定程度的差距。後來2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策……我們放眼到現階段，因為現在已經是2024年了，過去的事情，當然我們就檢討完，但是我們現在要放眼2025年到2032年，目標是要達到一百萬戶，這一百萬戶裡面，二十五萬戶那時候是說要直接興建，二十五萬戶包租代管，以及五十萬戶的租金補貼，原先的政策是不是這樣子？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們的百萬租屋社會住宅政策確實是朝著這三個方向，就是直接興建社會住宅、包租代管，還有租金補貼，其中租金補貼的部分，已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標。"],["黃委員健豪：這個我等一下會提到，的確，我覺得你們租金補貼的目標放的太低了一點，所以現在達到了。好，我要提出的是，今天我們講的這一百萬戶，現在已經改了，在新總統上任之後，把本來的這百萬社宅目標改成了八年百萬租屋之家庭支持計畫。我要跟部長也跟院長提醒一件事情，租屋是什麼意思？其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題，今天你補貼民眾去租屋，的確可以解決他短期的問題，但他的房子是從哪裡來？他要去哪裡租？不就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎？你推動了新青安政策，同時又推動了各項政策，如果我是個有點資本的人，我當然去買房子，我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人，反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸，那我當然可以有恃無恐繼續買房啊！所以我今天要講的是，如果今天政府推動的百萬社宅真的是由政府興建或者是民間投資興建，我當然支持，但如果用成租屋補貼的話，我想這跟社宅的定義有一定程度的落差。院長，你怎麼看？"],["劉部長世芳：我來回應好嗎？黃委員的觀察非常正確，但是我們在過去一段時間以來，是要解決剛剛進入就業市場年輕人的問題，我們期待租金補貼過了一段時間以後，可能他家戶的經濟所得增加了，就有可能去外面買一般的房子，不需要再經過租金補貼的部分或是包租代管，我們是從這個觀點切進去的。所謂興建社宅的部分，黃委員您的說法非常正確，我們未來興建社會住宅，不會是只有公務機關，譬如像內政部或者是臺中市政府，我們也鼓勵企業界按照住宅法的規定，它可以直接興建社會住宅。如果直接興建社會住宅，對於企業未來要進用新人或者是留住這些人的話，其實幫助會非常大。同時未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造鎮，也就是說，社會住宅的興建，不要把它放在山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方，它是有很好的生活機能在，所以朝著小造鎮來發展的話，興建社會住宅的社會功能性，對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會幫助就會非常大，所以我們未來會多元及多管齊下來鼓勵企業界，甚至內政部以外的其他部會，譬如說國防部也可以，或者是其他單位一起來興建社會住宅。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長，我聽到了關鍵，其實在之前的質詢我也提過相關的概念，現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建，包含住都中心也好、各地方政府也好，都是由政府出資出土地來興建，但是明明住宅法裡面就有鼓勵民間興辦的相關規定，到底提供什麼獎勵，針對細節的部分，我覺得內政部可以跟大家一起來思考，但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場，大家賺那麼多錢，大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會？我想如果能夠鼓勵民間興辦，讓多數的國民有權利能夠住得起房子……其實住的地方不一定是用買的，他可以用長期租屋的形式，透過政府的政策，他有機會在年輕的時候、在還沒有穩定財政的時候，他能夠有地方、有去處。政府鼓勵民間興辦社會住宅，是未來下一個階段社會住宅興建的政策目標嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是，委員的觀察非常正確，在住宅法第十九條裡面，確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地，譬如像新北市政府已經用BOT的方式，在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅，所以未來臺中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話，站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持。"],["黃委員健豪：院長呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的指教，從剛剛委員提供的那個表格當中，我們都看得出來現在的量還是不夠的，量還要提升，當然興建是一個方式，但短期之內釋放出比較多的閒置餘屋，讓它出租也是一個方式，至於跟民間合作，這個就是委員所提到，我們未來也希望朝這個方向一起來努力，讓民間能夠投入，跟政府公私部門共同來合力，我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長，謝謝部長，針對居住正義的問題，就如剛剛所提到，除了打之外，更重要的是讓人民有地方住，這才是這個政策最重要的核心，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝委員。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝院長，下一位請黃仁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":90,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-19","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃健豪","黃仁","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra 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\"、\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 56.267, \"end\": 56.447, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 56.447, \"end\": 56.827, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 56.827, \"end\": 57.007, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 57.007, \"end\": 57.227, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 57.227, \"end\": 57.247, \"score\": 0.005}]}, {\"start\": 57.987, \"end\": 62.751, \"text\": \"臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 57.987, \"end\": 58.107, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 58.107, \"end\": 58.247, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 58.247, \"end\": 58.307, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 58.307, \"end\": 58.487, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 58.487, \"end\": 59.028, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 59.028, \"end\": 59.048, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": 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62.731, \"end\": 62.751, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}]}, {\"start\": 78.203, \"end\": 101.328, \"text\": \"今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 78.203, \"end\": 78.323, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 78.323, \"end\": 78.463, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 78.463, \"end\": 78.603, \"score\": 0.564}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 78.603, \"end\": 78.743, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 78.743, \"end\": 78.963, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 78.963, \"end\": 79.143, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 79.143, \"end\": 79.683, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 79.683, \"end\": 79.843, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 79.843, 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{\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 99.888, \"end\": 100.468, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 100.468, \"end\": 100.568, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 100.568, \"end\": 101.008, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 101.008, \"end\": 101.088, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 101.088, \"end\": 101.308, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 101.308, \"end\": 101.328, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}]}, {\"start\": 102.068, \"end\": 127.734, \"text\": \"那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 102.068, \"end\": 102.168, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 102.168, \"end\": 102.268, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 102.268, \"end\": 102.348, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", 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\"所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 714.938, \"end\": 714.978, \"score\": 0.518}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 714.978, \"end\": 715.018, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 715.018, \"end\": 715.118, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 715.118, \"end\": 715.178, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 715.178, \"end\": 715.219, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 715.219, \"end\": 715.339, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 715.339, \"end\": 715.539, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 715.539, \"end\": 716.821, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 716.821, \"end\": 716.981, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 716.981, \"end\": 717.181, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 717.181, \"end\": 717.342, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 717.342, 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\"start\": 727.235, \"end\": 728.177, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 728.177, \"end\": 728.477, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 728.477, \"end\": 728.537, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 728.537, \"end\": 728.697, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 728.697, \"end\": 728.798, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 728.798, \"end\": 728.818, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 728.818, \"end\": 728.918, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 728.918, \"end\": 729.118, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 729.118, \"end\": 729.579, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 729.579, \"end\": 729.819, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 729.819, \"end\": 729.879, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 729.879, \"end\": 730.039, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 730.039, \"end\": 730.059, \"score\": 0.995}]}, {\"start\": 731.318, \"end\": 749.956, \"text\": \"我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 731.318, \"end\": 732.559, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 732.559, \"end\": 733.159, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 733.159, \"end\": 733.44, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 733.44, \"end\": 734.04, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 734.04, \"end\": 734.22, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 734.22, \"end\": 734.321, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 734.321, \"end\": 734.481, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 734.481, \"end\": 734.621, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 734.621, \"end\": 735.342, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 735.342, \"end\": 735.482, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 735.482, \"end\": 735.602, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 735.602, \"end\": 735.882, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 735.882, \"end\": 736.663, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 736.663, \"end\": 736.783, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 736.783, \"end\": 736.903, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 736.903, \"end\": 737.424, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 737.424, \"end\": 737.724, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 737.724, \"end\": 737.824, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 737.824, \"end\": 738.064, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 738.064, \"end\": 739.406, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 739.406, \"end\": 739.646, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 739.646, \"end\": 739.906, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 739.906, \"end\": 740.066, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 740.066, \"end\": 740.507, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 740.507, \"end\": 740.787, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 740.787, \"end\": 741.067, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 741.067, \"end\": 741.187, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 741.187, \"end\": 741.568, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"輕\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 741.568, \"end\": 742.048, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 742.048, \"end\": 742.308, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 742.308, \"end\": 742.468, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 742.468, \"end\": 742.669, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 742.669, \"end\": 742.969, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 742.969, \"end\": 743.109, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 743.109, \"end\": 743.75, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 743.75, \"end\": 743.83, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 743.83, \"end\": 743.91, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 743.91, \"end\": 744.41, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 744.41, \"end\": 744.53, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 744.53, \"end\": 744.671, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 744.671, \"end\": 744.811, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 744.811, \"end\": 744.931, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 744.931, \"end\": 745.111, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 745.111, \"end\": 745.491, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 745.491, \"end\": 746.252, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 746.252, \"end\": 746.432, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 746.432, \"end\": 746.572, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 746.572, \"end\": 746.753, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 746.753, \"end\": 746.933, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 746.933, \"end\": 747.353, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 747.353, \"end\": 747.493, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 747.493, \"end\": 747.934, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 747.934, \"end\": 748.114, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 748.114, \"end\": 748.274, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 748.274, \"end\": 748.454, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 748.454, \"end\": 748.655, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 748.655, \"end\": 749.275, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"買\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 749.275, \"end\": 749.415, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 749.415, \"end\": 749.555, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 749.555, \"end\": 749.696, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"房\", \"start\": 749.696, \"end\": 749.936, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 749.936, \"end\": 749.956, \"score\": 0.907}]}, {\"start\": 750.256, \"end\": 750.436, \"text\": \"新建社會住宅\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 750.256, \"end\": 750.276, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 750.276, \"end\": 750.376, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 750.376, \"end\": 750.396, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 750.396, \"end\": 750.416, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 750.416, \"end\": 750.436, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 771.195, \"end\": 799.945, \"text\": \"那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 771.195, \"end\": 771.355, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 771.355, \"end\": 771.455, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 771.455, \"end\": 771.595, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 771.595, \"end\": 771.695, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 771.695, \"end\": 772.515, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 772.515, \"end\": 772.716, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 772.716, \"end\": 772.996, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 772.996, \"end\": 773.136, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 773.136, \"end\": 773.456, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 773.456, \"end\": 773.656, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": 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00:00:57,247\n議員長這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實你看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄\n\n3\n00:00:57,987 --> 00:01:02,751\n臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係\n\n4\n00:01:18,203 --> 00:01:41,328\n今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝\n\n5\n00:01:42,068 --> 00:02:07,734\n那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全\n\n6\n00:02:08,354 --> 00:02:23,234\n那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節\n\n7\n00:02:24,355 --> 00:02:42,902\n這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程\n\n8\n00:02:46,099 --> 00:03:08,596\n謝謝黃委員的關心。我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別。那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢,行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多,包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫。那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助。\n\n9\n00:03:09,276 --> 00:03:36,209\n目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經合訂全台灣大概有799處\n\n10\n00:03:37,950 --> 00:03:43,356\n我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油\n\n11\n00:03:44,670 --> 00:04:13,389\n好部長謝謝也謝謝拜託院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家對重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做\n\n12\n00:04:13,789 --> 00:04:16,072\n報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數．\n\n13\n00:04:32,472 --> 00:04:35,373\n謝謝院長、謝謝部長。台灣市民安全我們來談一下我們的房價問題。也是先提供幾個客觀數字。\n\n14\n00:04:50,134 --> 00:05:05,991\n我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實\n\n15\n00:05:07,556 --> 00:05:27,072\n當然政府一直說要打房,當然我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房,但是我們可以看到房價越打越高。房價越打越高我們看到從當初房地合一稅上路之後,我們包含政府大家都期待說房價因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降,但是\n\n16\n00:05:28,613 --> 00:05:52,344\n因為說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。\n\n17\n00:05:53,044 --> 00:06:11,157\n因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場\n\n18\n00:06:12,057 --> 00:06:24,347\n（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理�\n\n19\n00:06:44,493 --> 00:07:01,387\n我想大家都知道不只是這個房地合一稅其實比較重要是平均地權我們修改之後那對於這個房地或是房價他是有一波稍微緩和的效果但是大家也都知道這個房價越打越高其中有很多因素大概第一個臺灣的經濟現在真的是非常的暢旺\n\n20\n00:07:03,789 --> 00:07:03,909\n﹚黃健豪﹚黃健豪\n\n21\n00:07:28,735 --> 00:07:29,015\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n\n22\n00:07:57,003 --> 00:08:26,477\n或是所謂利用這個條件裡面的部分。我打斷一下我還是提到其實我認為政府推動的政策都是良利良善但是因為這個自由資本市場所以你提出來之後當然大家會想盡辦法委員提到因為如果房子他本身把它視為資本的工具的時候政府推動各項政策他丟到市場上去當然他很有可能馬上就變成另外一項投機炒作的工具了是所以有檢討的空間跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素\n\n23\n00:08:27,290 --> 00:08:52,902\n建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打\n\n24\n00:08:54,443 --> 00:09:12,956\n但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的\n\n25\n00:09:13,436 --> 00:09:13,616\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n\n26\n00:09:36,727 --> 00:09:40,131\n韓國、亞洲國家、歐洲國家社會福利比較好的國家比例比較高,但是我想這個5%是現在社會的共識,那如果回到台灣現在的狀況來講,\n\n27\n00:09:53,388 --> 00:10:16,533\n在這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距啊\n\n28\n00:10:17,193 --> 00:10:28,401\n那這個從這個後來的2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子\n\n29\n00:10:44,880 --> 00:11:10,005\n2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租代管還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放得有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天那邊講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢\n\n30\n00:11:10,985 --> 00:11:35,946\n把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫。那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情。租屋是什麼意思?其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題。今天你補貼民眾去租屋,他的確解決他短期的問題啊。但他的房子去從哪裡來?他去哪裡租?他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎?\n\n31\n00:11:36,803 --> 00:11:54,017\n那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房。\n\n32\n00:11:54,938 --> 00:12:10,059\n所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看\n\n33\n00:12:11,318 --> 00:12:29,956\n我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子\n\n34\n00:12:30,256 --> 00:12:30,436\n新建社會住宅\n\n35\n00:12:51,195 --> 00:13:19,945\n那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大\n\n36\n00:13:20,345 --> 00:13:37,342\n所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅。好部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說\n\n37\n00:13:38,663 --> 00:14:00,495\n國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建的,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢,\n\n38\n00:14:01,676 --> 00:14:27,849\n大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來\n\n39\n00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:52,731\n這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持\n\n40\n00:14:54,102 --> 00:15:22,567\n院長謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來\n\n41\n00:15:23,411 --> 00:15:30,394\n好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住增益的問題就提到了,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住啊。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3919\t12243\t好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院左院長跟內政部劉部長。請左院長備詢和內政部部長備詢。黃委員好。委員長好。部長好。\n29322\t57247\t議員長 這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實你看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄\n57987\t62751\t臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係\n78203\t101328\t今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝\n102068\t127734\t那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全\n128354\t143234\t那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節\n144355\t162902\t這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程\n166099\t188596\t謝謝黃委員的關心。我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別。那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢,行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多,包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫。那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助。\n189276\t216209\t目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經合訂全台灣大概有799處\n217950\t223356\t我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油\n224670\t253389\t好部長謝謝也謝謝拜託院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家對重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做\n253789\t256072\t報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數．\n272472\t275373\t謝謝院長、謝謝部長。 台灣市民安全我們來談一下我們的房價問題。 也是先提供幾個客觀數字。\n290134\t305991\t我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實\n307556\t327072\t當然政府一直說要打房,當然我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房,但是我們可以看到房價越打越高。 房價越打越高我們看到從當初房地合一稅上路之後,我們包含政府大家都期待說房價因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降,但是\n328613\t352344\t因為說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。\n353044\t371157\t因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場\n372057\t384347\t（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理�\n404493\t421387\t我想大家都知道不只是這個房地合一稅其實比較重要是平均地權我們修改之後那對於這個房地或是房價他是有一波稍微緩和的效果但是大家也都知道這個房價越打越高其中有很多因素大概第一個臺灣的經濟現在真的是非常的暢旺\n423789\t423909\t﹚黃健豪﹚黃健豪\n448735\t449015\t﹚黃健豪﹚\n477003\t506477\t或是所謂利用這個條件裡面的部分。 我打斷一下我還是提到其實我認為政府推動的政策都是良利良善但是因為這個自由資本市場所以你提出來之後當然大家會想盡辦法委員提到因為如果房子他本身把它視為資本的工具的時候政府推動各項政策他丟到市場上去當然他很有可能馬上就變成另外一項投機炒作的工具了是所以有檢討的空間跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素\n507290\t532902\t建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打\n534443\t552956\t但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的\n553436\t553616\t﹚黃健豪﹚\n576727\t580131\t韓國、亞洲國家、歐洲國家社會福利比較好的國家比例比較高,但是我想這個5%是現在社會的共識,那如果回到台灣現在的狀況來講,\n593388\t616533\t在這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距啊\n617193\t628401\t那這個從這個後來的2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子\n644880\t670005\t2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租代管還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放得有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天那邊講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢\n670985\t695946\t把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫。那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情。租屋是什麼意思?其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題。今天你補貼民眾去租屋,他的確解決他短期的問題啊。但他的房子去從哪裡來?他去哪裡租?他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎?\n696803\t714017\t那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房。\n714938\t730059\t所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看\n731318\t749956\t我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子\n750256\t750436\t新建社會住宅\n771195\t799945\t那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大\n800345\t817342\t所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅。好部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說\n818663\t840495\t國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建的,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢,\n841676\t867849\t大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來\n869189\t892731\t這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持\n894102\t922567\t院長謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來\n923411\t930394\t好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住增益的問題就提到了,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住啊。\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院左院長跟內政部劉部長。請左院長備詢和內政部部長備詢。黃委員好。委員長好。部長好。\n議員長 這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實你看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄\n臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係\n今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝\n那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全\n那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節\n這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程\n謝謝黃委員的關心。我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別。那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢,行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多,包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫。那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助。\n目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經合訂全台灣大概有799處\n我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油\n好部長謝謝也謝謝拜託院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家對重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做\n報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數．\n謝謝院長、謝謝部長。 台灣市民安全我們來談一下我們的房價問題。 也是先提供幾個客觀數字。\n我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實\n當然政府一直說要打房,當然我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房,但是我們可以看到房價越打越高。 房價越打越高我們看到從當初房地合一稅上路之後,我們包含政府大家都期待說房價因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降,但是\n因為說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。\n因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場\n（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理�\n我想大家都知道不只是這個房地合一稅其實比較重要是平均地權我們修改之後那對於這個房地或是房價他是有一波稍微緩和的效果但是大家也都知道這個房價越打越高其中有很多因素大概第一個臺灣的經濟現在真的是非常的暢旺\n﹚黃健豪﹚黃健豪\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n或是所謂利用這個條件裡面的部分。 我打斷一下我還是提到其實我認為政府推動的政策都是良利良善但是因為這個自由資本市場所以你提出來之後當然大家會想盡辦法委員提到因為如果房子他本身把它視為資本的工具的時候政府推動各項政策他丟到市場上去當然他很有可能馬上就變成另外一項投機炒作的工具了是所以有檢討的空間跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素\n建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打\n但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n韓國、亞洲國家、歐洲國家社會福利比較好的國家比例比較高,但是我想這個5%是現在社會的共識,那如果回到台灣現在的狀況來講,\n在這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距啊\n那這個從這個後來的2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子\n2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租代管還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放得有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天那邊講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢\n把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫。那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情。租屋是什麼意思?其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題。今天你補貼民眾去租屋,他的確解決他短期的問題啊。但他的房子去從哪裡來?他去哪裡租?他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎?\n那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房。\n所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看\n我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子\n新建社會住宅\n那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大\n所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅。好部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說\n國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建的,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢,\n大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來\n這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持\n院長謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來\n好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住增益的問題就提到了,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住啊。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.919 --> 00:12.243\n好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院左院長跟內政部劉部長。請左院長備詢和內政部部長備詢。黃委員好。委員長好。部長好。\n\n00:29.322 --> 00:57.247\n議員長這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實你看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄\n\n00:57.987 --> 01:02.751\n臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係\n\n01:18.203 --> 01:41.328\n今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝\n\n01:42.068 --> 02:07.734\n那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全\n\n02:08.354 --> 02:23.234\n那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節\n\n02:24.355 --> 02:42.902\n這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程\n\n02:46.099 --> 03:08.596\n謝謝黃委員的關心。我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別。那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢,行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多,包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫。那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助。\n\n03:09.276 --> 03:36.209\n目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經合訂全台灣大概有799處\n\n03:37.950 --> 03:43.356\n我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油\n\n03:44.670 --> 04:13.389\n好部長謝謝也謝謝拜託院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家對重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做\n\n04:13.789 --> 04:16.072\n報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數．\n\n04:32.472 --> 04:35.373\n謝謝院長、謝謝部長。台灣市民安全我們來談一下我們的房價問題。也是先提供幾個客觀數字。\n\n04:50.134 --> 05:05.991\n我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實\n\n05:07.556 --> 05:27.072\n當然政府一直說要打房,當然我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房,但是我們可以看到房價越打越高。房價越打越高我們看到從當初房地合一稅上路之後,我們包含政府大家都期待說房價因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降,但是\n\n05:28.613 --> 05:52.344\n因為說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。\n\n05:53.044 --> 06:11.157\n因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場\n\n06:12.057 --> 06:24.347\n（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理�\n\n06:44.493 --> 07:01.387\n我想大家都知道不只是這個房地合一稅其實比較重要是平均地權我們修改之後那對於這個房地或是房價他是有一波稍微緩和的效果但是大家也都知道這個房價越打越高其中有很多因素大概第一個臺灣的經濟現在真的是非常的暢旺\n\n07:03.789 --> 07:03.909\n﹚黃健豪﹚黃健豪\n\n07:28.735 --> 07:29.015\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n\n07:57.003 --> 08:26.477\n或是所謂利用這個條件裡面的部分。我打斷一下我還是提到其實我認為政府推動的政策都是良利良善但是因為這個自由資本市場所以你提出來之後當然大家會想盡辦法委員提到因為如果房子他本身把它視為資本的工具的時候政府推動各項政策他丟到市場上去當然他很有可能馬上就變成另外一項投機炒作的工具了是所以有檢討的空間跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素\n\n08:27.290 --> 08:52.902\n建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打\n\n08:54.443 --> 09:12.956\n但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的\n\n09:13.436 --> 09:13.616\n﹚黃健豪﹚\n\n09:36.727 --> 09:40.131\n韓國、亞洲國家、歐洲國家社會福利比較好的國家比例比較高,但是我想這個5%是現在社會的共識,那如果回到台灣現在的狀況來講,\n\n09:53.388 --> 10:16.533\n在這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距啊\n\n10:17.193 --> 10:28.401\n那這個從這個後來的2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子\n\n10:44.880 --> 11:10.005\n2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租代管還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放得有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天那邊講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢\n\n11:10.985 --> 11:35.946\n把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫。那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情。租屋是什麼意思?其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題。今天你補貼民眾去租屋,他的確解決他短期的問題啊。但他的房子去從哪裡來?他去哪裡租?他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎?\n\n11:36.803 --> 11:54.017\n那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房。\n\n11:54.938 --> 12:10.059\n所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看\n\n12:11.318 --> 12:29.956\n我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子\n\n12:30.256 --> 12:30.436\n新建社會住宅\n\n12:51.195 --> 13:19.945\n那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大\n\n13:20.345 --> 13:37.342\n所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅。好部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說\n\n13:38.663 --> 14:00.495\n國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建的,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢,\n\n14:01.676 --> 14:27.849\n大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來\n\n14:29.189 --> 14:52.731\n這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持\n\n14:54.102 --> 15:22.567\n院長謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來\n\n15:23.411 --> 15:30.394\n好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住增益的問題就提到了,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住啊。\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.919,"end":12.243,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請行政院左院長跟內政部劉部長。請左院長備詢和內政部部長備詢。黃委員好。委員長好。部長好。"},{"start":29.322,"end":57.247,"text":"議員長 這個一開始來跟討論幾個客觀數字啊我想近5年臺灣的總人口減少了16.8萬人但臺中市逆勢的增加4.6萬人那如果我們來看的話其實臺中市不少縣市的名字都移入包含說周邊的彰化縣、南投縣也都移入那全國來自全國各地包含新北、臺北、高雄也都分別移入了許多人喔那所以其實你看到說這個前5名的彰化、新北、南投、臺北、高雄"},{"start":57.987,"end":62.751,"text":"臺中市的人口增加可能跟這個本身有很多重大建設推動還有跟中部的共同生活圈逐漸成形有關係"},{"start":78.203,"end":101.328,"text":"今天為什麼特別提到這個臺中市的人口成長?第一個就是說因為臺中市人口逐漸增加所以有很多的這個重大建設也都需要這個中央的來幫忙所以今天第一點我要來感謝我們行政院包括說推動這個永續提升行政安全計畫在前幾週來核定讓臺中的確拿到了非常多的經費5億多的經費核定我想這個第一個感謝"},{"start":102.068,"end":127.734,"text":"那第二個要拜託就是說一樣的邏輯臺中是有這麼多的移入人口全國在減少但臺中在增加尤其是在我個人的選區裡面它的增加比例是最高的情況下面我們當然要拜託說這個永續提升行人安全計畫在下一個階段裡面行政院跟內政部是不是可以同意繼續來支持臺中因為我想這個這麼多人移入那我想我也特別重視我們這個行人安全"},{"start":128.354,"end":143.234,"text":"那這麼多人一路可以看到說尤其是人口結構上來講他很多都是所謂年輕家庭年輕家庭他就會有小孩那小孩的問題其實就是最擔心就是說他通學步道他的行人安全我想都是很多年輕家庭最重視的一個生活上的細節"},{"start":144.355,"end":162.902,"text":"這個雖然沒有很政治但是我想都是人民最關心的民生問題所以我想問一下我們行政院跟內政部在接下來二階段也是所謂的行人永續提升永續提升的行人安全計畫裡面是不是能夠繼續來支持讓臺中能夠申請更多的經費來做相關人行道的工程"},{"start":166.099,"end":188.596,"text":"謝謝黃委員的關心。我想對於行人的安全的永續計畫本來就沒有政黨的差別。那對於台中市是一個新興而且發展非常快的這個都市呢,行人安全計畫裡面我們當然第一階段已經公布了相當多,包括黃委員在你的選區裡面也相當多這個計畫。那未來如果有需求的話我們用滾動式的方式會繼續增加這方面的補助。"},{"start":189.276,"end":216.209,"text":"目前為止行人安全的永續提升計畫大概就是交通部跟內政部尤其是我們的國土管理署為主所以我們要到地方政府來做會刊包括在校園的安全或是行人的安全或者是行人道上面的鋪面改善屬於硬體設備改善的部分都是由國土管理署跟我們台中市政府一起來合作來改善我們很希望在短期之內就達成這樣的目標像目前行政院已經合訂全台灣大概有799處"},{"start":217.95,"end":223.356,"text":"我想台中市的這個比例算相當的高尤其是六都裡面所以我們來繼續加油"},{"start":224.67,"end":253.389,"text":"好部長謝謝也謝謝拜託院長因為我想台中現在對第一個當然推動大宗運輸這在交通業務質詢的時候會來拜託也會來這個來要求但是這個交通大宗運輸做完之後大家對重要的就是所謂最後一里路怎麼走完怎麼從這個大宗運輸的節點走到他家裡面這個就需要很完善的這個道路安全行人安全系統當然台灣在這件事情上面這幾年開始關注那其他先進國家他做這件事情做了很多年那我們現在開始做"},{"start":253.789,"end":256.072,"text":"報告委員．剛剛部長所說的全國依照是路口799處．我已經要求他3個月內要完成半數．"},{"start":272.472,"end":275.373,"text":"謝謝院長、謝謝部長。 台灣市民安全我們來談一下我們的房價問題。 也是先提供幾個客觀數字。"},{"start":290.134,"end":305.991,"text":"我想這個全國六都包含新竹縣市的這個房價所得比我想逐年當然每年這個數字那如果我們從2023年Q4往前回推10年左右其實全國的房價所得比的這個比例上漲了非常非常多我想這也是一個客觀的事實"},{"start":307.556,"end":327.072,"text":"當然政府一直說要打房,當然我們也知道政府做了很多行動來打房,但是我們可以看到房價越打越高。 房價越打越高我們看到從當初房地合一稅上路之後,我們包含政府大家都期待說房價因為房地合一稅上路之後能夠有明顯的下降,但是"},{"start":328.613,"end":352.344,"text":"因為說不只下降,至少持平嘛,但是不只沒有持平啊,你看這個數字它的曲線圖它是快速的在成長。那其實我認為大家推動相關的政策本意利益都是良善的,但是我想今天為什麼打房會越打越高,我想提供觀點給院長跟部長來思考啊,就是到底有沒有需要去推動政策來打房。"},{"start":353.044,"end":371.157,"text":"因為你打房我想最核心的問題是說你今天是在跟資本市場對坐當然理論上來講我們希望房子不應該是資本市場的玩具工具這是理論上但實際上台灣現狀社會裡面來講它的這個房價為什麼越打越高就是因為它我覺得變成某種程度上變成這個資本市場"},{"start":372.057,"end":384.347,"text":"（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月25日下午1時50分為處理�"},{"start":404.493,"end":421.387,"text":"我想大家都知道不只是這個房地合一稅其實比較重要是平均地權我們修改之後那對於這個房地或是房價他是有一波稍微緩和的效果但是大家也都知道這個房價越打越高其中有很多因素大概第一個臺灣的經濟現在真的是非常的暢旺"},{"start":423.789,"end":423.909,"text":"﹚黃健豪﹚黃健豪"},{"start":448.735,"end":449.015,"text":"﹚黃健豪﹚"},{"start":477.003,"end":506.477,"text":"或是所謂利用這個條件裡面的部分。 我打斷一下我還是提到其實我認為政府推動的政策都是良利良善但是因為這個自由資本市場所以你提出來之後當然大家會想盡辦法委員提到因為如果房子他本身把它視為資本的工具的時候政府推動各項政策他丟到市場上去當然他很有可能馬上就變成另外一項投機炒作的工具了是所以有檢討的空間跟委員報告房價的高高低低很多因素"},{"start":507.29,"end":532.902,"text":"建築土地成本還有就是群聚形成科技園區高科技工業區等等他都有可能另外就是都會區的形成像台中都會區一形成之後就往都會區來集中沒錯我也很認為打是打不法我們打擊犯罪打擊毒品才叫打防他本身沒有罪所以我們應該證明此後我們就是打草防有草防的行為我們絕對打"},{"start":534.443,"end":552.956,"text":"但是房屋它的價值一方面是社會市場的成本一方面政府要用公共的政策來把它平抑下去而不是打房是打炒房好謝謝院長既然談到公共政策我要提出說除了打房之外因為房價現在就還是這個價格現階段所以政府的"},{"start":553.436,"end":553.616,"text":"﹚黃健豪﹚"},{"start":576.727,"end":580.131,"text":"韓國、亞洲國家、歐洲國家社會福利比較好的國家比例比較高,但是我想這個5%是現在社會的共識,那如果回到台灣現在的狀況來講,"},{"start":593.388,"end":616.533,"text":"在這個全國社會住宅新辦的進度的這個狀況來講我今年初的時候那時候前院長在的時候我也問過這問題那只是唯一的跟動的標準是那時候是1月底那現在是5月31的這個數字到目前為止全國這實際這個中央來興建的社宅可以入住的3萬多戶我想這個比例跟本來預計的要達到這個12萬戶還是一定程度的這個差距啊"},{"start":617.193,"end":628.401,"text":"那這個從這個後來的2025年到2032年的社會住宅政策裡面我們放眼到這個現階段現在2024的過去的事情當然我們就檢討完但是我們現在放眼2025到2032目標要達到100萬戶100萬戶裡面有25萬戶那時候說要直接興建25萬戶要包租代管也50萬戶的租金補貼原先的政策是不是長這樣子"},{"start":644.88,"end":670.005,"text":"2025到2032我們的百萬租屋這個社會住宅政策確實是朝著三個方向就是直接興建社會住宅然後包租代管還有租金補貼其中租金補貼的部分已經遠遠超過原來預期的目標這個我等一下會提到的確我覺得你這個租金補貼的目標放得有點太低了一點現在達到了好那我要提出說今年今天那邊講這100萬戶的裡面25現在已經改了因為現在這個我想新總統上來之後呢"},{"start":670.985,"end":695.946,"text":"把這個本來的百萬社宅目標改成了這個八年這個百萬租屋之家庭的支持計畫。那我要跟部長也跟院長來提醒一件事情。租屋是什麼意思?其實一樣就會回到資本市場的問題。今天你補貼民眾去租屋,他的確解決他短期的問題啊。但他的房子去從哪裡來?他去哪裡租?他不是就是要跟人家買的房子租嗎?"},{"start":696.803,"end":714.017,"text":"那你同時又推動了新清安政策,同時又推動了各項政策,那如果我是個有點資本的人,我當然去買房子,我繼續租給這些還買不起房子的人,因為反正他會拿政府的租屋補貼來補貼我房子的房貸,那我當然可以有失誤可能繼續買房。"},{"start":714.938,"end":730.059,"text":"所以我今天要講的是說如果今天真的政府推動是百萬社宅是由政府來興建或者民間投資興建我當然支持但是如果用成豬補貼的話我想這跟社宅的定義會有一定程度的落差院長你怎麼看"},{"start":731.318,"end":749.956,"text":"我想黃委員的這個觀察非常的正確但是我們在過去一段時間以來是要解決剛剛進入我們的那個就業市場的年輕人我們期待他租金補貼過了一段時間以後他可能家戶的這個經濟所的增加了就有可能去外面買一般的房子"},{"start":750.256,"end":750.436,"text":"新建社會住宅"},{"start":771.195,"end":799.945,"text":"那如果直接興建社會住宅對於企業要未來要禁用新人或者是留住這些人的話其實幫助會非常大那同時呢未來我們興建社會住宅會朝著所謂的小造陣也就是說呢社會住宅的興建不要把它放在什麼山邊或是水邊非常偏僻的地方它是有個很好的一個生活的這個機能在所以朝著這個小造陣來發展的話呢興建社會住宅那它的社會功能性對於幫忙年輕族群進入社會呢幫助就會非常大"},{"start":800.345,"end":817.342,"text":"所以我們未來會多元跟多管齊下來來鼓勵企業界甚至內政部以外的其他部會比如說國防部也可以或是其他的單位一起來興建這個社會住宅。好部長謝謝我聽到了這個關鍵就其實過去在之前的這個質詢我也提過相關的概念就是說"},{"start":818.663,"end":840.495,"text":"國現在的社會住宅基本上全都是由政府來興建的,就包含說住住中心也好,各地方政府也好,都是由政府出資出土地來興建,但是明明住宅法裡面就有相關的這個鼓勵民間興辦,包含提供什麼獎勵,當然細節我覺得不可以跟大家一起來思考,但是我覺得的確你應該把這個壓力轉嫁出去給資本市場,就大家賺了這麼多錢,"},{"start":841.676,"end":867.849,"text":"大家到底要怎麼樣回饋給社會我想如果能夠讓民間鼓勵民間新辦那讓多數的國民還有權利能夠住得起房子這個住他不一定是買啊他可以長期的租租的情勢嘛那再透過政府的政策他有機會在年輕的時候在還沒有這個穩定財政的時候他能夠有地方能去處所以如果政府的這個這個新辦社出來使用的新辦社出來能夠鼓勵民間新辦是未來"},{"start":869.189,"end":892.731,"text":"這個下一個階段社會住宅的新建的這個政策目標嗎?是,我想委員觀察得非常正確在住宅法第19條裡面確實有提到民間可以自行運用土地像譬如說新北市政府已經用BOT的方式在中和跟三重處理所謂的青年社會住宅所以未來台中市政府如果要朝著這方面來發展或是發揮的話我想我們站在內政部的立場一定會來鼓勵跟多多支持"},{"start":894.102,"end":922.567,"text":"院長謝謝委員的指教剛剛委員那個表格當中我們都看得出來我們在量還是不夠的量還提升但短期之內興建是一個方式但是用比較多的漁屋釋放出來讓他出租也是一個方式但是跟民間合作這個就是委員所提到我們未來要朝這個方向也需要一起來努力讓民間能夠來投入跟政府公司部門共同來合力我們才有辦法在一定的時間把量增加出來"},{"start":923.411,"end":930.394,"text":"好,謝謝院長、謝謝部長。我想這個居住增益的問題就提到了,除了打之外,更重要的是讓人民有地方住啊。"}]}}}}