{"id":154169,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154169","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63224dc0dd2f91fb76e1b926d9cdcffe4c867c7a3ae89c54664f2be01c033e41230bd05d888952235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"10:23:48 - 10:40:17","影片長度":"00:16:29","會議時間":"2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）\n二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）\n三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-25","start_time":"2024-06-25T10:23:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-25T10:40:17+08:00","duration":989,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議","id":"院會-11-1-19","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":213,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（10時24分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：卓院長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：伍委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：院長好，很高興在這邊見到您。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我要先跟您說聲感謝，因為在您擔任黨主席時徵召我參選立委，讓我今天得以有機會站在這個地方，在此跟您說聲感謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：那是我們借重原住民族朋友們對您的敬重，發揮您的長才、為國家服務，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我會繼續努力。我要跟院長說明一下，我先自我介紹，我的族名叫做Saidhai Tahovecahe，目前我是被編定在魯凱族，我先是臺灣原住民，再來是中華民國的國民，我愛我的族人，我熱愛這片土地，我愛我的國家，為了原住民族的權益，為了國家的權益，我會捍衛到底。請教一下院長，您認為我是不是台獨分子？"],["卓院長榮泰：你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們知道中國在21日召開了一個懲戒台獨的記者會，如果依照這個定義，我們大概有八成五的國人都會落入台獨分子，而且有可能入罪、而且心生恐懼，請教一下院長，您的態度如何？"],["卓院長榮泰：先請主委答一下，好不好？謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：伍委員您好，謝謝您。中國大陸推出這22條的意見，我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話，都可能被列為台獨，所以應該是超過你剛剛所說的八成人數。不過，我們要強調，北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權，它的法律，它的規範，包括它這22條的意見，對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力。我們要特別強調，政府會全力來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利，請大家不要擔心。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我們的心並無二致，我們一起努力。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，這個事情我的態度是這樣子的，政府有責任保護所有國民的安全，所以在中華民國境內，我們所有的國人當然會受到政府最好的保障。而我們國人也會外出啊！我希望拿中華民國護照的所有國人，去到每一個國家，既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出，就應該得到當地國政府全力的保護中華民國國民、持有這個護照的國民的人身安全。第三，如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊，去做各種訪問或者工商的往來，確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下，否則政府透過陸委會、透過海基會能夠做的，現在對方的態度是消極的，所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮、慎重的考慮。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝院長。我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土啦！","我在這裡其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係，原住民族跟土地的關係，就跟母親的臍帶一樣，真的是密不可分，很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情，像我們很著名的印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言，非常的感人，他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情；我們排灣族也會說，土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子；泰雅族也會說土地是血、山林是家，所以很多人很難瞭解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係，特別是昨天下午，總統賴清德他公布了這一次引起原住民族高度重視的禁伐補償條例的修正。院長，是不是這代表著明年1月1號開始，我們就可以適用新的辦法？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，剛剛我有答復過，我再跟委員報告一次，我覺得禁伐補償的金額，從3萬調整到6萬，整個經費從26億調到52億，這個占據原住民族今年度跟明年度概算的40%……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：您會不會支持？是不是明年就會開始？明年會不會適用這個新辦法？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個單一政策實使用一個部會預算的40%，這個在過去是少見的，現在傷腦筋的是，如何用其他的再扣掉法定支出之外的，剩下十幾%的百分比，能夠照顧到所有原住民該做的事情，這是現在傷腦筋的。所以我要請原民會曾主委，也一定要深入去看看如何處理這個事情，但是政府的預算、整個中央政府總預算的額度是相當有限的，就是在這個額度裡面。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起，我們是不是可以確保這個新制上路？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是依法行政必須要做的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，那就是依法行政，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政措施怎麼來處理，我們會研究出來。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，一定是合法的，依法行政的，謝謝院長。其實我會這樣講的原因還有一個，您看一下這則新聞。這是幾年前臺東縣議會所爆發的激辯，有一位議員直接提案刪除原民會撥補給原民處2,200萬元禁伐補償金的追加預算，他的理由是什麼呢？他說漢人承租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權，原住民在保留地租5年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢？幾十年來，原住民的土地沒有所有權，只有他項權利，但因為政府制度的改變，讓我們在5年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說，他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分？事實是什麼？外交官的孩子也可以加分，僑生也可以加分，科技人才子女也可以加分，軍人和身心障礙者都可以加分。在這個地方我要特別提到，在聯合國原住民族權利宣言、在我們的原基法中，政府承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這些政府承認的原住民固有主權，包括狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。但國家點滴式的福利餵養，有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突。在這邊我要特別跟院長說，其實我們始終都很清楚，原住民自治和原住民族教育是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助污名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這地方做施政報告，您提到政府將落實原基法，俾利原住民族自治推動；您也提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片，因為您這段話跟我們賴總統的政見一模一樣。","（播放影片）"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：2002年前總統陳水扁正式在國家文件上簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定；2005年我們有了原基法；2016年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉；2024年我們的賴總統宣布，要推動原住民族由下而上的自治，這個單位叫做部落公法人。我要跟院長說明，原基法有這樣的法源、法條，部落要設置部落會議，部落經原民會主管機關核定為公法人。但是院長您知道嗎？目前我們的部落會議具有法律效力，不過原民會核定、認可的740個部落卻沒有公法人地位！我要跟院長說明，推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。先不要談自治，因為沒有公法人，我們不能談自治。","我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人？第一，以亞泥利益分享回饋金來講，到底要存在哪裡？由於沒有部落公法人，只好找一個協會，存在協會裡；蘭嶼的核廢料補償金有這麼多錢，到底要存在哪裡？沒有部落公法人，只好設立一個基金會存起來。但是這些協會、這些基金會，甚至是合作社、公司，難道可以代表部落全體嗎？當林業署在推動狩獵自主管理時到底要跟誰簽？為此，我們還得成立一個獵人協會，然後由理事長來簽。有很多法令，如礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等，都說要跟部落進行諮商，但那些利益分享，到底我們要跟誰簽？真正要簽的是部落會議主席，但我們跟理事長簽、跟鄉長簽、跟很多人簽，就是部落主席不能簽，因為他沒有法律地位！部落辦的這些公共事務，像文健站、互助教保中心，我們只好成立一個協會來承辦；我們的部落公共事業有溫泉、有地熱，很多人要跟我們合作開發，而我們只能找一個合作公司來合作開發，甚至這些不能代表部落的群體會造成部落的分裂。","更重要的是，我們的土地到底要登記給誰？以這16年來講，國產署已經移交給原民會的原保地有4,667公頃，因為沒有部落公法人，部落不能沒有公有土地，造成我們這些新增劃編回來的土地都變成了私有土地，這下子我們的土地零碎化了、私有化了，但是我們的原保條例還沒有出來。我是想要跟院長說，部落要有土地才是自治的基礎，要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人，更不可能推動所謂的部落自治，未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地，如果沒有原保條例處理我們部落遷居所需的土地，我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地。甚至在我們原基法裡面都有傳統智慧創作保護，我們未來也有生物多樣性的知識，像那一些保種計畫，我們都會有權利，我們都會有權利金，甚至是未來的森林碳匯，我們的森林驗證，我們都沒有部落公法人可以處理，我們不知道該怎麼辦，所以我在這邊特別要拜託院長，有部落公法人，我們的部落就會自主的發展成為一個自治實體，未來自治要怎麼走、部落要跟誰自治、它的自治事項是什麼，這個都不用政府煩惱，但是一定要從部落公法人開始。","我這邊有一個短短的影片，這是一個老人家，是一位國民黨的大老，做過校長、鄉長、議員，他在過世的三天前只交付我一個任務，請聽一下。","（播放影片）"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：院長，這個八十幾歲的老人家，國民黨的大老，他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好，因為我們都很清楚的知道，要擺脫國家福利補助的污名，只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育，所以我希望院長可以責成原民會在兩個月內提出，第一個是去處理部落公法人設置條例，法律位階，在這個之前呢，希望可以擬定草案，辦理全國分區座談會，更重要的是，如果我們懷疑它有潛在的風險，我希望可以擬定一個3年期的部落公法人沙盒計畫，選定地點來辦理。院長可以嗎？一句話就好。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話，我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的。您提到這個議題，我想原民會一定會針對每個部落、民族的政經文化的差異及人口多少的差異，再跟大家積極的溝通。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝院長。","另外一個是教育的問題，我今天希望能夠得到你的肯認，因為您也說了，政府即將逐步推動雙軌教育，我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚地說明，我現在要跟您說，其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校，而且是由中央原住民的主管機關，也就是原民會來規劃原住民族學校的設立事項。其實在2018年召開過公聽會，2022年立法院也曾經排審，但是重點莫衷一是、沒有共識，因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼，但是我們從聯合國的宣言可以看到，所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育。我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭看毛利族怎麼做，我們看到了他們有幼兒園的沉浸學校等等，可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套，我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦，但是到現在都沒有結果。我要講的是，其實有決心有什麼做不到？","我們來看一下教育部113年的預算，編在我們的民族教育跟語言的預算是6.44億，原民會113年編在我們這些語言的預算是7.12億，我們原住民族教育經費，教育部法定預算六十四億多。我想說的是，我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎？我希望我們的原民會就比照目前在科學園區設立的這些學校，其實很簡單，我也可以來協助，我很希望一樣，我們有一個試辦點，我們就開始來做，因為我們是在跟時間賽跑，我們現在還有老師，學校的老師、正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學，我希望至少我們來做。","主委，您是排灣族，最多最多會講族語的老師，我們來做，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我們試著看看，想辦法來做試辦，是不是在來義那邊可以先來試辦看看。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，很好，我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績。院長，希望您一起來支持，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：再請委員指教，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai 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\"text\": \"否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 217.148, \"end\": 217.948, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 217.948, \"end\": 218.169, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 218.169, \"end\": 219.089, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 219.089, \"end\": 219.669, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 219.669, \"end\": 219.95, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 219.95, \"end\": 220.17, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 220.17, \"end\": 220.35, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 220.35, \"end\": 220.87, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 220.87, \"end\": 221.23, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 221.23, \"end\": 221.43, \"score\": 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\"我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 930.47, \"end\": 930.57, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 930.57, \"end\": 930.95, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 930.95, \"end\": 931.131, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 931.131, \"end\": 931.731, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 931.731, \"end\": 932.612, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 932.612, \"end\": 932.812, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 932.812, \"end\": 932.932, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 932.932, \"end\": 933.212, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 933.212, \"end\": 933.412, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 933.412, \"end\": 933.553, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 933.553, \"end\": 933.753, 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948.905, \"end\": 949.125, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 949.125, \"end\": 949.225, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 949.225, \"end\": 949.385, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 949.385, \"end\": 949.505, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"賽\"}, {\"word\": \"跑\", \"start\": 949.505, \"end\": 949.525, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 950.666, \"end\": 978.633, \"text\": \"我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 950.666, \"end\": 951.106, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 951.106, \"end\": 951.406, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 951.406, \"end\": 951.546, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 951.546, \"end\": 952.286, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 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\"員\"}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 984.373, \"end\": 984.615, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"a\", \"start\": 984.615, \"end\": 984.896, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 984.896, \"end\": 984.997, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"d\", \"start\": 984.997, \"end\": 985.178, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"h\", \"start\": 985.178, \"end\": 985.459, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"a\", \"start\": 985.459, \"end\": 985.701, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"i\", \"start\": 985.701, \"end\": 985.882, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 985.882, \"end\": 985.902, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,078 --> 00:00:15,479\n謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。\n\n2\n00:00:42,045 --> 00:01:08,377\n我是我們借重您在原住民族當中的朋友裡面﹖對你的敬重﹖發揮你的長才為國家來服務。謝謝。我會繼續努力。那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做SaidhaiTahoveca那我目前是被編定在盧凱族那我先是台灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人\n\n3\n00:01:09,059 --> 00:01:09,460\n你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。\n\n4\n00:01:27,654 --> 00:01:28,835\n．伍麗華SaidhaiTahoveca\n\n5\n00:01:53,243 --> 00:02:12,398\n委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調\n\n6\n00:02:14,278 --> 00:02:30,413\n北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權﹖他的法律﹖他的規範和包括他的22條的意見﹖對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力﹖\n\n7\n00:02:31,776 --> 00:02:49,205\n我們要特別強調我們政府會全力的來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利。請大家不要擔心。我們的心並無二致,我們一起努力。那在這裡呢?\n\n8\n00:02:49,205 --> 00:02:57,330\n這個事情我的態度是這樣政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在\n\n9\n00:02:58,493 --> 00:03:23,629\n中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全\n\n10\n00:03:24,517 --> 00:03:36,282\n第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊﹖去做各種的訪問﹖或者工商的往來﹖確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下﹖\n\n11\n00:03:37,148 --> 00:04:02,522\n否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣\n\n12\n00:04:03,763 --> 00:04:10,102\n真的是一個密不可分那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情像我們很著名的\n\n13\n00:04:11,314 --> 00:04:40,323\n印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言非常的感人他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次\n\n14\n00:04:40,883 --> 00:04:53,901\n引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正。院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法?\n\n15\n00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:03,906\n報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個額金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度\n\n16\n00:05:12,192 --> 00:05:14,994\n您說會不會支持是不是明年就會開始（伍麗華Said\n\n17\n00:05:30,196 --> 00:05:33,439\n我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路\n\n18\n00:06:00,218 --> 00:06:02,679\n這是幾年前在臺東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除\n\n19\n00:06:24,625 --> 00:06:26,350\n原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算﹖\n\n20\n00:06:30,987 --> 00:06:57,427\n那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼?\n\n21\n00:06:58,408 --> 00:07:13,711\n外交官的孩子也可以加分。喬森也可以加分。科技人才子女也可以加分。軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國援助民族的權利宣言在我們的援基法\n\n22\n00:07:14,191 --> 00:07:30,057\n其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。\n\n23\n00:07:31,998 --> 00:07:46,375\n但是國家點滴式的福利未養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育\n\n24\n00:07:46,875 --> 00:08:12,933\n是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助無名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告。您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。\n\n25\n00:08:14,002 --> 00:08:19,784\n賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。\n\n26\n00:08:35,911 --> 00:08:51,771\n二零零二年呢我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。二零零五年我們有了原基法。二零一六年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。\n\n27\n00:08:53,072 --> 00:09:07,683\n2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議\n\n28\n00:09:08,704 --> 00:09:30,637\n部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。\n\n29\n00:09:31,718 --> 00:09:49,815\n先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會\n\n30\n00:09:51,196 --> 00:10:06,241\n藍宇的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎\n\n31\n00:10:07,681 --> 00:10:28,111\n當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖\n\n32\n00:10:29,432 --> 00:10:55,235\n真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司\n\n33\n00:10:56,175 --> 00:11:05,979\n來合作開發甚至這一些不能代表部落的群體他會造成部落的分裂更重要的是我們的土地到底要登記給誰以這16年來講國產署他已經移交給原民會員保地4667公頃\n\n34\n00:11:12,742 --> 00:11:13,403\n我是想要跟院長說﹖\n\n35\n00:11:29,682 --> 00:11:52,276\n部落要有土地才是自治的基礎,要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人,更不可能推動所謂的部落自治,那未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地,如果沒有這個元寶條例,處理我們部落遷居所需的土地,我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地,甚至是我們原基法裡面,我們都有了傳統智慧創作保護,\n\n36\n00:12:43,534 --> 00:12:46,575\n院長這個八十幾歲的老人家國民黨的大佬\n\n37\n00:13:08,544 --> 00:13:30,911\n他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案\n\n38\n00:13:46,562 --> 00:14:16,026\n報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育\n\n39\n00:14:16,485 --> 00:14:43,280\n我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼\n\n40\n00:14:43,780 --> 00:15:00,632\n但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的曾經學校等等\n\n41\n00:15:01,112 --> 00:15:28,689\n可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多\n\n42\n00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:49,525\n我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑\n\n43\n00:15:50,666 --> 00:16:18,633\n我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好\n\n44\n00:16:24,232 --> 00:16:25,902\n謝謝吳委員Saidhai的質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12078\t15479\t謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。\n42045\t68377\t我是我們借重您在原住民族當中的朋友裡面﹖對你的敬重﹖發揮你的長才為國家來服務。謝謝。我會繼續努力。那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做Saidhai Tahoveca那我目前是被編定在盧凱族那我先是台灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人\n69059\t69460\t你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。\n87654\t88835\t．伍麗華Saidhai Tahoveca\n113243\t132398\t委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調\n134278\t150413\t北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權﹖他的法律﹖他的規範和包括他的22條的意見﹖對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力﹖\n151776\t169205\t我們要特別強調我們政府會全力的來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利。請大家不要擔心。我們的心並無二致,我們一起努力。那在這裡呢?\n169205\t177330\t這個事情我的態度是這樣政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在\n178493\t203629\t中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全\n204517\t216282\t第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊﹖去做各種的訪問﹖或者工商的往來﹖確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下﹖\n217148\t242522\t否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣\n243763\t250102\t真的是一個密不可分那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情像我們很著名的\n251314\t280323\t印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言非常的感人他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次\n280883\t293901\t引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正。 院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法?\n295960\t303906\t報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個額金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度\n312192\t314994\t您說會不會支持是不是明年就會開始（伍麗華Said\n330196\t333439\t我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路\n360218\t362679\t這是幾年前在臺東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除\n384625\t386350\t原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算﹖\n390987\t417427\t那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼?\n418408\t433711\t外交官的孩子也可以加分。 喬森也可以加分。科技人才子女也可以加分。軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。 所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國援助民族的權利宣言在我們的援基法\n434191\t450057\t其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。\n451998\t466375\t但是國家點滴式的福利未養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育\n466875\t492933\t是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助無名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告。您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。\n494002\t499784\t賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。\n515911\t531771\t二零零二年呢我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。二零零五年我們有了原基法。二零一六年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。\n533072\t547683\t2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議\n548704\t570637\t部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。\n571718\t589815\t先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會\n591196\t606241\t藍宇的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎\n607681\t628111\t當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖\n629432\t655235\t真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司\n656175\t665979\t來合作開發甚至這一些不能代表部落的群體他會造成部落的分裂更重要的是我們的土地到底要登記給誰以這16年來講國產署他已經移交給原民會員保地4667公頃\n672742\t673403\t我是想要跟院長說﹖\n689682\t712276\t部落要有土地才是自治的基礎,要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人,更不可能推動所謂的部落自治,那未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地,如果沒有這個元寶條例,處理我們部落遷居所需的土地,我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地,甚至是我們原基法裡面,我們都有了傳統智慧創作保護,\n713217\t732654\t﹏﹏﹏\n732654\t762654\t﹏﹏\n763534\t766575\t院長 這個八十幾歲的老人家國民黨的大佬\n788544\t810911\t他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案\n811391\t826220\t﹗﹗﹗\n826562\t856026\t報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育\n856485\t883280\t我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼\n883780\t900632\t但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的曾經學校等等\n901112\t928689\t可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多\n930470\t949525\t我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑\n950666\t978633\t我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好\n984232\t985902\t謝謝吳委員Saidhai的質詢。\n","txt":"謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。\n我是我們借重您在原住民族當中的朋友裡面﹖對你的敬重﹖發揮你的長才為國家來服務。謝謝。我會繼續努力。那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做Saidhai Tahoveca那我目前是被編定在盧凱族那我先是台灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人\n你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。\n．伍麗華Saidhai Tahoveca\n委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調\n北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權﹖他的法律﹖他的規範和包括他的22條的意見﹖對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力﹖\n我們要特別強調我們政府會全力的來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利。請大家不要擔心。我們的心並無二致,我們一起努力。那在這裡呢?\n這個事情我的態度是這樣政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在\n中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全\n第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊﹖去做各種的訪問﹖或者工商的往來﹖確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下﹖\n否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣\n真的是一個密不可分那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情像我們很著名的\n印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言非常的感人他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次\n引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正。 院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法?\n報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個額金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度\n您說會不會支持是不是明年就會開始（伍麗華Said\n我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路\n這是幾年前在臺東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除\n原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算﹖\n那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼?\n外交官的孩子也可以加分。 喬森也可以加分。科技人才子女也可以加分。軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。 所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國援助民族的權利宣言在我們的援基法\n其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。\n但是國家點滴式的福利未養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育\n是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助無名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告。您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。\n賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。\n二零零二年呢我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。二零零五年我們有了原基法。二零一六年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。\n2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議\n部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。\n先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會\n藍宇的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎\n當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖\n真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司\n來合作開發甚至這一些不能代表部落的群體他會造成部落的分裂更重要的是我們的土地到底要登記給誰以這16年來講國產署他已經移交給原民會員保地4667公頃\n我是想要跟院長說﹖\n部落要有土地才是自治的基礎,要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人,更不可能推動所謂的部落自治,那未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地,如果沒有這個元寶條例,處理我們部落遷居所需的土地,我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地,甚至是我們原基法裡面,我們都有了傳統智慧創作保護,\n﹏﹏﹏\n﹏﹏\n院長 這個八十幾歲的老人家國民黨的大佬\n他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案\n﹗﹗﹗\n報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育\n我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼\n但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的曾經學校等等\n可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多\n我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑\n我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好\n謝謝吳委員Saidhai的質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.078 --> 00:15.479\n謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。\n\n00:42.045 --> 01:08.377\n我是我們借重您在原住民族當中的朋友裡面﹖對你的敬重﹖發揮你的長才為國家來服務。謝謝。我會繼續努力。那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做SaidhaiTahoveca那我目前是被編定在盧凱族那我先是台灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人\n\n01:09.059 --> 01:09.460\n你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。\n\n01:27.654 --> 01:28.835\n．伍麗華SaidhaiTahoveca\n\n01:53.243 --> 02:12.398\n委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調\n\n02:14.278 --> 02:30.413\n北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權﹖他的法律﹖他的規範和包括他的22條的意見﹖對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力﹖\n\n02:31.776 --> 02:49.205\n我們要特別強調我們政府會全力的來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利。請大家不要擔心。我們的心並無二致,我們一起努力。那在這裡呢?\n\n02:49.205 --> 02:57.330\n這個事情我的態度是這樣政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在\n\n02:58.493 --> 03:23.629\n中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全\n\n03:24.517 --> 03:36.282\n第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊﹖去做各種的訪問﹖或者工商的往來﹖確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下﹖\n\n03:37.148 --> 04:02.522\n否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣\n\n04:03.763 --> 04:10.102\n真的是一個密不可分那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情像我們很著名的\n\n04:11.314 --> 04:40.323\n印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言非常的感人他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次\n\n04:40.883 --> 04:53.901\n引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正。院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法?\n\n04:55.960 --> 05:03.906\n報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個額金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度\n\n05:12.192 --> 05:14.994\n您說會不會支持是不是明年就會開始（伍麗華Said\n\n05:30.196 --> 05:33.439\n我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路\n\n06:00.218 --> 06:02.679\n這是幾年前在臺東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除\n\n06:24.625 --> 06:26.350\n原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算﹖\n\n06:30.987 --> 06:57.427\n那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼?\n\n06:58.408 --> 07:13.711\n外交官的孩子也可以加分。喬森也可以加分。科技人才子女也可以加分。軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國援助民族的權利宣言在我們的援基法\n\n07:14.191 --> 07:30.057\n其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。\n\n07:31.998 --> 07:46.375\n但是國家點滴式的福利未養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育\n\n07:46.875 --> 08:12.933\n是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助無名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告。您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。\n\n08:14.002 --> 08:19.784\n賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。\n\n08:35.911 --> 08:51.771\n二零零二年呢我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。二零零五年我們有了原基法。二零一六年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。\n\n08:53.072 --> 09:07.683\n2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議\n\n09:08.704 --> 09:30.637\n部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。\n\n09:31.718 --> 09:49.815\n先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會\n\n09:51.196 --> 10:06.241\n藍宇的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎\n\n10:07.681 --> 10:28.111\n當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖\n\n10:29.432 --> 10:55.235\n真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司\n\n10:56.175 --> 11:05.979\n來合作開發甚至這一些不能代表部落的群體他會造成部落的分裂更重要的是我們的土地到底要登記給誰以這16年來講國產署他已經移交給原民會員保地4667公頃\n\n11:12.742 --> 11:13.403\n我是想要跟院長說﹖\n\n11:29.682 --> 11:52.276\n部落要有土地才是自治的基礎,要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人,更不可能推動所謂的部落自治,那未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地,如果沒有這個元寶條例,處理我們部落遷居所需的土地,我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地,甚至是我們原基法裡面,我們都有了傳統智慧創作保護,\n\n12:43.534 --> 12:46.575\n院長這個八十幾歲的老人家國民黨的大佬\n\n13:08.544 --> 13:30.911\n他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案\n\n13:46.562 --> 14:16.026\n報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育\n\n14:16.485 --> 14:43.280\n我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼\n\n14:43.780 --> 15:00.632\n但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的曾經學校等等\n\n15:01.112 --> 15:28.689\n可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多\n\n15:30.470 --> 15:49.525\n我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑\n\n15:50.666 --> 16:18.633\n我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好\n\n16:24.232 --> 16:25.902\n謝謝吳委員Saidhai的質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.078,"end":15.479,"text":"謝謝主席。有請卓院長。卓院長請備詢。委員好。院長好。很高興在這邊見到您。我要先跟您說聲感謝。因為您在擔任黨主席的時候徵召我參選立委。我得以今天有機會站在這個地方,在這邊跟您說聲感謝。"},{"start":42.045,"end":68.377,"text":"我是我們借重您在原住民族當中的朋友裡面﹖對你的敬重﹖發揮你的長才為國家來服務。謝謝。我會繼續努力。那我要跟院長說明一下我先自我介紹我的族名叫做Saidhai Tahoveca那我目前是被編定在盧凱族那我先是台灣原住民再來是中華民國的國民我愛我的族人"},{"start":69.059,"end":69.46,"text":"你是熱愛中華民國臺灣的國家的主人。"},{"start":87.654,"end":88.835,"text":"．伍麗華Saidhai Tahoveca"},{"start":113.243,"end":132.398,"text":"委員你好,謝謝您中國大陸推出這22條的意見我想只要不是中共所定義的統一的話都可能被列為台獨所以應該是超過你剛所說的八成的人數不過我們要強調"},{"start":134.278,"end":150.413,"text":"北京當局對我國並沒有任何的司法管轄權﹖他的法律﹖他的規範和包括他的22條的意見﹖對於我們國人都沒有任何的拘束力﹖"},{"start":151.776,"end":169.205,"text":"我們要特別強調我們政府會全力的來捍衛我們國人的安全與權利。請大家不要擔心。我們的心並無二致,我們一起努力。那在這裡呢?"},{"start":169.205,"end":177.33,"text":"這個事情我的態度是這樣政府有責任保護所有國民的安全所以在"},{"start":178.493,"end":203.629,"text":"中華民國境內我們所有的國人當然受到政府最好的保障那我們有國人也會外出我希望拿中華民國護照的所有的國人去到每一個國家既然這本護照能夠在當地國自由的進出就應該得到當地國政府權利的保護中華民國國民持有這個護照的國民的人身安全"},{"start":204.517,"end":216.282,"text":"第三、如果我們要到中國大陸去旅遊﹖去做各種的訪問﹖或者工商的往來﹖確實你要先注意到自己的安全能不能在你有效的管控底下﹖"},{"start":217.148,"end":242.522,"text":"否則政府透過陸委會透過海基會能夠做的現在對方的態度是消極的所以我很希望國人能夠慎重的考慮啊慎重的考慮謝謝院長我此生還沒有踏入過中國的國土那我在這裡呢其實是要提到我們跟土地的關係其實原住民族跟土地的關係就跟母親的期待一樣"},{"start":243.763,"end":250.102,"text":"真的是一個密不可分那很多人很難理解原住民對土地的感情像我們很著名的"},{"start":251.314,"end":280.323,"text":"印第安酋長西雅圖他的那一篇宣言非常的感人他們跟土地就像家人一樣的感情我們排灣族也會說土地不會拒絕任何一顆種子泰雅族也會說土地是血山林是家所以很多人很難了解原住民跟土地的感情跟關係特別是昨天的下午總統賴清德他公布了這一次"},{"start":280.883,"end":293.901,"text":"引起大家原住民族人高度重視的進法補償條例的修正。 院長是不是這代表著明年的1月1號開始我們就可以試用新的辦法?"},{"start":295.96,"end":303.906,"text":"報告委員剛剛我有答覆過我再跟委員報告一次我覺得從進法補償的這個金額從3萬調整到6萬整個額金費從26億調到52億這個佔據原住民族今年度"},{"start":312.192,"end":314.994,"text":"您說會不會支持是不是明年就會開始（伍麗華Said"},{"start":330.196,"end":333.439,"text":"我們族人要聽的是確保總統公告明年的1月1號起我們是不是可以確保這個心智上路"},{"start":360.218,"end":362.679,"text":"這是幾年前在臺東縣議會爆發一個畸變有一位議員呢他直接提案刪除"},{"start":384.625,"end":386.35,"text":"原民會撥補給原民處2200萬元的禁法補償金的追加預算﹖"},{"start":390.987,"end":417.427,"text":"那他的理由是什麼呢?他說漢人曾租國有地幾十年也拿不到所有權,原住民在保留地五年就可以取得。事實是什麼呢?幾十年來,原住民的土地沒有所有權,只有他向權利。因為政府制度的改變,讓我們在五年之後就可以被承認權利。也有人說,他說為什麼原住民考試可以加分?事實是什麼?"},{"start":418.408,"end":433.711,"text":"外交官的孩子也可以加分。 喬森也可以加分。科技人才子女也可以加分。軍人身心障礙者都可以加分。 所以在這個地方我要特別提到在我們的聯合國援助民族的權利宣言在我們的援基法"},{"start":434.191,"end":450.057,"text":"其實政府是承認原住民族的土地跟自然資源。我們原本可以根據這一些政府承認原住民的固有主權,包括我們的狩獵、水源、溫泉、能源等等,來發展我們的社會組織、文化、經濟。"},{"start":451.998,"end":466.375,"text":"但是國家點滴式的福利未養有意無意的擴大了社會的對立跟衝突我特別要在這邊跟院長說其實我們始終都很清楚原住民自治、原住民族的教育"},{"start":466.875,"end":492.933,"text":"是我們擺脫國家社會福利補助無名的唯一途徑。我很高興您在5月31日來這個地方做施政報告。您有提到說政府將落實原基法必立原住民族自治推動。您也有提到政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系。我們來看一段影片因為您這段話跟我們的賴總統的政見一模一樣。"},{"start":494.002,"end":499.784,"text":"賴清德講到原民自治,強調由下而上推動,首先就是確立部落公法人的法律地位。"},{"start":515.911,"end":531.771,"text":"二零零二年呢我們前總統陳水扁正式的國家文件簽署了與原住民的新夥伴關係協定。二零零五年我們有了原基法。二零一六年前總統蔡英文代表國家跟原住民道歉。"},{"start":533.072,"end":547.683,"text":"2024年我們的賴總統宣布要推動原住民族由下而上的自治這個單位叫做部落公法人我要跟院長說明原基法有這樣的一個法源法條部落要設置部落會議"},{"start":548.704,"end":570.637,"text":"部落經原民會主管機關合定為公法人,但是院長你知道嗎?我們的部落會議目前具有法律效力,但是我們原民會合定認可的這些740個部落卻沒有公法人的地位。我要跟院長說明,推動部落公法人是原住民自治很重要的基礎。"},{"start":571.718,"end":589.815,"text":"先不要談自治沒有公法人我們不能談自治那我要跟您說明為什麼要推動部落公法人第一個以我們的雅尼利益分享回饋金來講到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好找一個協會存在協會"},{"start":591.196,"end":606.241,"text":"藍宇的核廢料補償金這麼多錢到底要存在哪裡沒有部落公法人只好設立一個基金會存起來但是這些協會這些基金會甚至是合作社公司難道可以代表部落全體嗎"},{"start":607.681,"end":628.111,"text":"當我們的林業署在推動狩獵自主管理﹖我們到底要跟誰簽﹖我們還得成立一個獵人協會﹖然後由理事長來簽﹖我們的很多的法令﹖礦業法、水利法、再生能源條例等等都說要跟部落進行諮商﹖但是我們的那些利益分享到底我們要跟誰簽﹖"},{"start":629.432,"end":655.235,"text":"真正要簽的是部落會議主席但是我們跟理事長簽跟鄉長簽跟很多的人簽就是部落主席不能簽因為他沒有法律地位我們部落辦的這些公共事務像文件站互助教保中心我們只好成立一個協會來承辦我們的部落公共事業有溫泉有地熱很多人要跟我們合作開發我們只能找一個合作公司"},{"start":656.175,"end":665.979,"text":"來合作開發甚至這一些不能代表部落的群體他會造成部落的分裂更重要的是我們的土地到底要登記給誰以這16年來講國產署他已經移交給原民會員保地4667公頃"},{"start":672.742,"end":673.403,"text":"我是想要跟院長說﹖"},{"start":689.682,"end":712.276,"text":"部落要有土地才是自治的基礎,要不然我們沒有辦法推動部落公法人,更不可能推動所謂的部落自治,那未來包括我們的永久屋這些土地,如果沒有這個元寶條例,處理我們部落遷居所需的土地,我們永遠沒有辦法取得土地,甚至是我們原基法裡面,我們都有了傳統智慧創作保護,"},{"start":713.217,"end":732.654,"text":"﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":732.654,"end":762.654,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":763.534,"end":766.575,"text":"院長 這個八十幾歲的老人家國民黨的大佬"},{"start":788.544,"end":810.911,"text":"他勉勵我只要做到這一項就好因為我們都很清楚知道要擺脫國家福利補助的汙名只能透過我們的自治跟我們的教育所以我希望院長可以責成原名會兩個月內第一個去處理部落公法人的設置條例法律未接那在這個之前希望可以擬定草案"},{"start":811.391,"end":826.22,"text":"﹗﹗﹗"},{"start":826.562,"end":856.026,"text":"報告委員很感動剛剛那段影片的那一句話我終於知道委員在這個工作上是一直會持續下去的您提到這個議題我想原民會一定會針對每個部落民族他的政經文化的差異人口多少的差異再跟大家積極的溝通謝謝院長那另外一個教育的問題我也覺得我今天一定希望能夠得到你的一個肯認因為您也說了政府也即將逐步推動雙軌的教育"},{"start":856.485,"end":883.28,"text":"我們的賴總統也在他的政見當中很清楚的說明那我現在要跟您說其實原教法已經有法源說要做原住民族學校而且是由中央原住民的主管機關也就是原民會來規劃原住民族的學校的設立事項其實在2018年召開過公聽會2022年立法院也曾經排審但是重點末中一事沒有共識因為大家根本不知道原住民族學校是什麼"},{"start":883.78,"end":900.632,"text":"但是我們從聯合國的宣言我們可以看到所謂的原住民族學校就是以自己的語言和教學方法來提供教育我們看到這些年很多人都去紐西蘭去看毛利族怎麼做但是我們看到他們有了幼兒園的曾經學校等等"},{"start":901.112,"end":928.689,"text":"可是我們的國家截至目前都是做半套我也曾經質詢過很多次要求要試辦但是到現在都沒有結果我要講的是其實有決心有什麼做不到我們來看一下教育部113年的預算編載我們的民族教育跟語言6.44億元民會113年編載我們這些語言7.12億我們的原住民族教育經費教育部法定預算64億多"},{"start":930.47,"end":949.525,"text":"我想說的是我們難道沒有辦法做一個原住民族學校嗎?我希望我們的園民會我們就比照像這些科學園區設立的學校其實很簡單我也可以來協助那我很希望說一樣我們有一個示範點我們就開始來做因為我們是在跟時間賽跑"},{"start":950.666,"end":978.633,"text":"我們現在還有老師學校的老師正式的教師還有辦法用自己的語言來進行雙語教學我希望至少我們來做那主委您是臺灣族最多最多會講主語的老師我們來做好不好對很好我相信這個一定是賴總統非常棒的一個政績那院長希望您一起來支持好不好"},{"start":984.232,"end":985.902,"text":"謝謝吳委員Saidhai的質詢。"}]}}}}