{"id":154184,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154184","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63224dc0dd2f91fb3ce47a42ec97f7334c867c7a3ae89c5402ac479e6c663ba98184ff050374ff9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"16:02:33 - 16:18:31","影片長度":"00:15:58","會議時間":"2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）\n二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）\n三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 \n四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-25","start_time":"2024-06-25T16:02:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-25T16:18:31+08:00","duration":958,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第19次會議","id":"院會-11-1-19","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":364,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（16時3分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：院長好，賴清德總統昨天已經表明，針對藍白國會擴權的惡法，會向憲法法庭聲請釋憲及暫時處分，以守護國家的憲政體系，也深化臺灣的民主，守護人民的權利。其實不只總統，行政院還有立法院的民進黨黨團、監察院也都有表態要聲請釋憲，然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前，民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查，請問院長，你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為？那依行政院的立場，要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮，接下來包括立法院民進黨黨團，所以，我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下，讓大法官的憲法法庭作最後裁定之後，這個法到底可行不可行、違憲不違憲，那時候才會確定下來。在此之前，我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提、為優先，應該按捺不動，不要去碰觸將來可能違憲的事情，否則任何一個國人、任何一個民意代表牽涉到違憲的情況之下，他的責任是沒有辦法去比擬的。"],["林委員宜瑾：瞭解。"],["卓院長榮泰：那行政院未來會依照憲政機關的角色跟我們應該有的職責，我們會研擬，但今天這個法案昨天總統剛剛簽過，還沒有正式生效，我們必須生效之後才有下一步的動作。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。","再來，要跟院長討論，中國最近說要嚴懲臺獨分子，不但可以進行缺席審判，最重還可以判到死刑。我想在臺灣每個人都是臺獨分子，每個人也可以都不是臺獨分子，怎麼說呢？首先，只要生活在臺灣，我想每一個人每一天都對臺灣主權獨立的事實做出肯定。舉例而言，我們國人5月才剛繳完稅，如果按照中國的標準，這無非是出資贊助臺灣獨立武裝組織。再來，臺灣獨立本來就是一個事實，就像美國獨立一樣，如果有人說要嚴懲美國的獨立分子，我想就要坐時光機飛到1776年。我想請教卓院長的是，依據中國的標準，你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪，然後對於中國的放話，你有什麼樣的回應？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為它對我們沒有司法管轄權，所以我不認為我背任何死罪，我活著為臺灣就好了……"],["林委員宜瑾：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以一個不民主而且法制不完備的政權，透過它的法制不完備來侵犯臺灣的民主，這是天大的笑話！"],["林委員宜瑾：真的！"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我說行政院的立場是保護在國內的國民，也希望我們去到國外的人，因為你有這張護照，你去到當地國，你可以進出，當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由，但是去到大陸，不管你做任何的訪問或是往來，你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己，因為它現在對我們是非常消極的，但是手段是非常惡毒的，你必須能夠保護自己，否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，因為就如同您說的，中國無權恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁，可是一旦踏入中國，或者踏入跟中國友好而且簽有司法引渡條約的國家，我想我們就不可不慎。","接下來要跟院長討論的就是立委赴中納管的問題，也就是沈伯洋委員首先提出的，本席和多位民進黨委員也有後續提出，像本席的案子，今天又在國民黨與民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了，這個案子就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案。","在我們的提案中有規範，與國家秘密、國家安全相關的人員如果要前往中國，就必須要行前申請，經過審查，而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人員有接觸，還要申報他接觸的狀況、交往的情形及內容。當然我們很清楚知道，我們的提案是以保護臺灣國家安全的立場為出發點，在中國無所不用其極地打壓臺灣主權與國人安全的狀態之下，為了維護國人的安全，立委及牽涉國家秘密的人員赴中納管的規範，我覺得就相當的重要。實際上，我國立委赴中交流有極高的機率是因為民選公職的身分會涉及臺獨，就像中國現在宣示的這種處罰條款，最終會羅織很多莫名的罪狀，會送辦，所以請問院長，如果在這樣的狀況之下，我國欠缺對立委赴中納管的規範，是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮？如果真的有立委在中國遭到羅織罪狀的時候，肯定會進一步升高臺灣與中國兩國的衝突，院長，你怎麼看？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，也許換一個角度來看，立委是國會議員，也是國家重要的政治工作者，他去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方，如果能夠讓政府提早知道，或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的機制，我們也會比較有能力知道他的行蹤，能夠預先知道他的危險性，從這個角度來看，是不是可以支持這個，而且這不是一種管理的方式……"],["林委員宜瑾：是，是保護。"],["卓院長榮泰：這只是讓大家掌握更多的國家資源，以及重要人士進出國門的狀態，如果他去到一些安全的國家，我們甚至都不須要對他有任何的瞭解，但是去到特殊的地方、不安全的地方、對人身有威脅的地方，我想政府和人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產。"],["林委員宜瑾：是。另外，跟院長說明，5月29日本席在內政委員會質詢立委赴中納管這個問題的時候，那時候梁文傑副主委的回應是說，就陸委會的立場而言，前往中國需接受審查的人員，在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員，但是長久以來，立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員。梁副主委有強調，他說，針對立法院長期違規的這件事情，陸委會曾經行文立法院，立法院從來沒有回復。從監察院，到地方法院，到全國各機關人員，都會接受赴中的審查，可是唯獨立法院不遵守。","在這個質詢之後，陸委會梁副主委也進一步透過書面回答，他說，實務上，正副總統、除了立法院之外的四院院長、政務官、地方首長及其機關內所涉及國家安全利益跟機密業務的人員，其實都依兩岸人民關係條例第九條跟國家機密保護法第二十六條的相關規定，會提列名冊送交內政部移民署來做赴中列管，但立法院接觸機密的立法委員跟職員，迄今從來沒有提過相關的名冊。","根據兩岸人民關係條例，違反第九條第四項規定要處兩百萬以上一千萬以下的罰鍰，請問院長，對於立法院知法犯法的行為，開罰了嗎？該如何嚴格執法，讓立法院可以遵守這個規範？"],["卓院長榮泰：或許在過去的執行過程當中，我必須承認可能並沒有在這個重點上去做任何的處理，但是我是尊重大院裡面對未來修法的過程，但是還是希望要經過民主的討論、公開的討論。現在重要的人士去到中國大陸，我們都覺得對他的人身安全確實很擔心，我這兩天就很擔心王前院長，我希望他安全的回來，告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全。如果這個是一個過程的話，那我們希望，能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障，這個才是重要的。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，再來要跟院長談到中正紀念堂轉型的問題，利用國家資源強迫全民納稅紀念獨裁者，這件極度不合理的事情，我從大學時期就一路反對到現在，在教文委員會裡面，包括李永得部長、史哲部長及現在的李遠部長也都被我質詢過這一題，在院會我也跟蘇貞昌院長討論過，即促轉會提出任務總結報告後，各部會轉型正義工作的交接狀況。根據促轉會的總結報告，我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長討論過，在中正紀念堂轉型的過程中，有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的，就是撤離三軍儀隊，又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體，改駐守在升旗臺那裡，把原先對獨裁者的崇拜，轉換成對國家的效忠。","6月11號顧部長回答邱志偉委員質詢的時候，您個人的看法有說，儀隊是可以移到自由廣場進行操練，也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議，不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是，第一、落實這項作為的時間？第二、上一次針對這項議題的詢答，卓院長也有提到，如果三軍儀隊駐守在忠烈祠，這樣代表的是我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬，造成的爭議就不會像駐防在中正紀念堂那麼大。換句話說，三軍儀隊為什麼駐防，駐防背後的意義跟論述非常的重要，所以我們現在回頭來請教，三軍儀隊如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場，它代表的意義是什麼？國防部賦予它操練的意義是什麼？是觀光嗎？部長先回答。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，有關三軍儀隊要如何進行操演現在是文化部在主管，我們國防部跟文化部應該已經經過兩、三次的協調，有將我們的主張傳達給文化部，也就是說，將三軍儀隊從……"],["林委員宜瑾：離開堂體。"],["顧部長立雄：移到自由廣場來進行操演，大概已經協調的差不多，到底什麼時候來執行這件事情，可能最後要由文化部做最後的拍板。"],["林委員宜瑾：所以是文化部主導嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們國防部是完全配合。"],["林委員宜瑾：國防部完全配合文化部，所以是文化部在規劃？"],["顧部長立雄：就把三軍儀隊的操演移到自由廣場。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。院長，拜託，時間不要再拖了，我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟它的意義，社會上還是存在不同的看法，現在國防部跟文化部就是在找尋一個大家最能夠接受、共識最高的方式，同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知，但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種儀隊的表演，代表國家的一種軍隊文化。"],["林委員宜瑾：對國家的效忠，對，沒錯！假設有共識的話，拜託這件事情要儘速處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["林委員宜瑾：最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假的議題。院長，其實這個議題本席追了很久，我在2020選第一次立委的時候，就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面，當上立委之後，我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情，後來陳建仁院長上任後，我也一直跟他倡議。對於勞動節放假這個議題，本席不斷地跟中央真的是耳提面命，好不容易在今年陳建仁院長有說要好好地來研議，可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的狀況，他是說很快就會有答案，當然很遺憾，今年的五一還是沒看到放假，理由是時間太倉促，因為通常今年的假期都是去年6月30日前會公布今年的行事曆，表示明年的行事曆會在今年6月30日公布。所以我想請問院長的是，這件事情到底有沒有譜？就是明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事。"],["卓院長榮泰：確實如委員所說，明年的行事曆，現在在行政院裡面正在循一定的程序往上來處理，我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解，我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假，但是其他也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的，這個我們從長來規劃，因為現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了，比過去又多了幾天，在這樣的情況底下，我們必須考慮到勞雇雙方的關係，還有整個社會其他層面的影響，但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理，我們就用一種全新的感覺去說，這個到底對社會的好處是什麼……"],["林委員宜瑾：因為院長，其實這個假日對產業的衝擊最小，因為產業本來就放假，反而是軍公教不放假，假設是一個公立學校，老師、學生都要去上課，可是裡面的工友、裡面的廚工卻因為他們要上課而跟著要加班，他本來是應該要放假的，我們用公保、勞保來分，公保是不放假的，勞保是放假的，一個場所，我們政府機關也一樣，有很多是勞保，有很多是公保，所以放假很不一致。而假日對於家庭來說，就是所謂全家享天倫之樂的一個很好的規劃假期，所以這件事情，再請院長明年公布五一勞動節放假，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再繼續研究，謝謝委員指教。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來登記第5號王定宇委員的質詢改書面質詢。"],["委員王定宇書面質詢：","質詢提綱：","一、中國快艇長驅直入淡水河口，如何亡羊補牢？","二、陸軍裝訓部「坑子口訓場整建案」進度？","三、我漁民陸續目擊中國094核潛艦等共艦現身臺灣海峽","四、國防部「漢光40號」實兵操演，今年與往年不同之處？","五、拜登再度表態不排除動用武力保衛臺灣，美國戰略模糊轉向？","六、中懲臺獨，我國人民於外國安全？","七、中國制裁臺灣人的思想自由？建請國安單位應研擬反制措施","八、中國利用統戰活動蒐集我國民個資與生物資料之目的？","九、嚴查中國官媒新華社來臺製播帶狀政論節目乙事","（註：一至四為國防部主管業務、五至六為外交部主管業務、七至九為國安局主管業務）","一、中國快艇長驅直入淡水河口，如何亡羊補牢？","2024年6月9日一艘中國籍快艇「鴻津號」駛入淡水河，經雷達站隊員在9日上午9時44分，於6海浬處偵測到該艘快艇，竟誤判是我國籍漁船準備入港，因此沒有向上通報並攔截圍捕，當日9時52分僅通知守望哨隊員監控該船，10時15分再次通報淡二守望哨，直到10時20分，八里守望哨才確認非我國籍船，該快艇於10時25分擦撞我國八里淡水交通渡船，10時54分安檢所才前往淡水漁人碼頭查處，將中國籍男子逮捕送辦。","2024年6月13日國防部召開記者會，海軍司令部中將參謀長邱俊榮表示海上事務均由海軍和海巡共同聯繫應處，然而海上目標掌握有難度，海軍的岸置雷達其實無法發現那麼小的快艇。國防部應就此事件積極研討如何補強我方雷達偵蒐極限、及未來類似樣態的標準處理程序，並加強與海巡署的聯合監偵、資訊通報及聯繫作業。","二、陸軍裝訓部「坑子口訓場整建案」進度？","2024年3月25日，立法院外交及國防委員會召集委員王定宇率隊考察陸軍裝訓部坑子口訓練場，行程中聽取簡報、瞭解各項設施預算需求及預期完工年份、研討各項戰術、射擊課目訓練需求。","其中固定靶臺、高架管線地下化工程、機槍射擊陣地、訓場道路等4工項預計2027年至2031年執行，本席建請國防部研議此4工項應併入第一期執行，以利訓練科目之完整並在最短的時間內達成新式裝備訓練需求。","三、我漁民陸續目擊中國094核潛艦等共艦現身臺灣海峽","2024年6月18日我國澎湖漁民清晨出海捕撈小管，在海上作業時目擊中國「晉級」094型飛彈核潛艦浮於海面，6月20日又有我國漁民在距離澎湖花嶼西南約40海裡左右的「澎湖南淺」漁場，發現中國海軍舷號153的052C型飛彈驅逐艦「西安艦」。","根據2019年1月15日國防部核定並實施的「中華民國籍漁船目標通傳報暨獎勵作法」，凡本國籍漁船在外海作業或航行期間，發現外國船艦後立即拍攝照片，並通報目標位置、舷號、艦型，只要不重複、偽冒通報，協助海軍完成不明目標辨識，可依目標傳報類型來核發獎勵金。依據該辦法，距離臺灣本島24海浬內，發現中國軍艦可領3萬元、中國公務船舶2萬元，他國籍軍用艦船、公務及科研船舶都是2萬元。若是在24海浬外，發現中國及其他國籍軍用艦船、公務船、科研船舶，則可領取1萬元。根據國防部提供本席最新資料顯示，至2019年獎勵辦法實施起，2022年開始通報數驟降，請國防部說明相關原因，另本席建請國防部研議是否提高獎金額度、放寬通報目標限制、放寬獎勵對象等精進措施。","四、國防部「漢光40號」實兵操演，今年與往年不同之處？","2024年7月22日至26日國防部將舉行「漢光40號」實兵操演，根據媒體報導，今年漢光演習驗證「去中心化」指管是這次漢光演習重點之一，主要是驗證聯兵旅層級以下部隊的應變戰力，各級指揮部及執行操演任務的基層營連長幹部可視部隊任務狀況，下達狀況演練的指令。除此之外，夜間訓練亦為今年重點，並取消由三軍統帥親自視導的大型火力展示項目，轉而貼近戰場的實況。在不涉及機敏的前提下，請國防部簡述今年漢光實兵操演與往年最大不同之處為何，及與往年不同的原因為何。","五、拜登再度表態不排除動用武力保衛臺灣，美國戰略模糊轉向？","美國總統拜登（Joe Biden）日前接受「時代雜誌」（TIME）專訪時表示，「若中國試圖片面改變現狀，美方不會不保護（defend）臺灣，因此美方也持續提供臺灣能力以及與區域盟邦協商」；此外，拜登總統並表示，如果中國侵臺，「不會排除動用美國武力（Not ruling out using US military force）」。","自拜登出任美國總統以來，已數度公開表態，若中國侵犯臺灣，美國部隊將會出面防衛臺灣，此是否代表美國對臺之戰略模糊政策的轉變？則此又會對印太區域安全如何造成影響？","六、中國推懲治「臺獨」頑固分子「意見」，我國人於國外恐遭殃？","中國國臺辦日前聯合多個部委召開有關「懲戒臺獨」的記者會，發布22條懲治「臺獨」頑固分子的「意見」，羅列犯分裂國家罪、煽動分裂國家罪的行為，最高可判處死刑，甚至終身追責，且可缺席審判。","儘管國際法上有政治良心犯不引渡等之原則，然中國相關人權及司法紀錄劣跡斑斑，近年不斷透過內國刑事管轄權的域外適用打壓反對意見，於實踐上更多有羅織入罪之例，國人前往與中國友好之國家恐有遭入罪引渡之風險。爰此，本席建請外交部提供國人相關高風險國家列表參閱，並說明我國應如何協助國人應處相關情況。","七、中國制裁臺灣人的思想自由？建請國安單位應研擬反制措施","在賴清德總統就職滿月之際，中國動用公安、檢察、司法、國安等四大刀把子，聯合公布《關於依法懲治「台獨」頑固分子分裂國家、煽動分裂國家犯罪的意見》，將「台獨頑固分子」定罪量刑，甚至准用「缺席審判」。中國展現對臺施壓，足見意圖以法律制裁威嚇台灣人民的思想及言論自由。爰此，本席建請國安單位應研議反制措施。","八、中國利用統戰活動蒐集我國民個資與生物資料之目的？","近期中國統戰活動因疫後如雨後春筍般湧現，接下來將進入暑期的「校園統戰」旺季。中國更進一步鼓勵我退休軍人、警察、公務人員、教師及學生至中國辦理「居住證」、手機門號、銀行帳號，以直接或間接方式蒐集我國民個資與生物資料。此是否與中國大力發展人工智慧（AI）結合生物資料庫有關？另外，中國蒐集我國民個資是否為操弄台灣輿論、介入選舉等做準備？本席建請國安單位應關注此事並強化相關規範，以防範中國取得臺灣人個資及生物資料。","九、嚴查中國官媒新華社參與製播臺灣帶狀政論節目乙事","有媒體報導披露，中國國台辦今年年初接觸臺灣多家電視台，以「在中國商業利益」條件交換製作帶狀政論節目，欲「精準傳達」中國官方預期的效果，此外，更指出有中國官媒新華社駐台記者負責盯場，逐一提醒來賓或節目標題、CG是否有照腳本走。","中國在臺灣境內利誘電視業者製播帶狀政論節目，操弄臺灣輿論方向，並以此攻擊執政政府，此為混合戰的延伸。爰此，本席要求國安單位務必徹查此事，嚴查相關人員及其金流，倘若有違法事宜，應移送相關主管機關依法處理。"],["主席：再接下來請登記第6號陳永康委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":90,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-19","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","黃健豪","黃仁","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra 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\"好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 274.736, \"end\": 274.976, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 274.976, \"end\": 275.197, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 275.197, \"end\": 275.337, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 275.337, \"end\": 275.537, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 275.537, \"end\": 275.677, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 275.677, \"end\": 275.977, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 275.977, \"end\": 276.498, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 276.498, \"end\": 276.598, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 276.598, \"end\": 277.499, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 277.499, \"end\": 277.779, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": 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\"序\", \"start\": 290.47, \"end\": 290.61, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 290.61, \"end\": 290.95, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 290.95, \"end\": 291.11, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"封\", \"start\": 291.11, \"end\": 291.591, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"殺\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 291.591, \"end\": 291.731, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 291.731, \"end\": 292.752, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 292.752, \"end\": 293.613, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 293.613, \"end\": 293.713, \"score\": 0.517}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 293.713, \"end\": 293.853, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 293.853, \"end\": 294.193, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 294.193, \"end\": 294.393, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 294.393, \"end\": 294.533, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 294.533, \"end\": 295.294, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 295.294, \"end\": 295.414, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 295.414, \"end\": 295.534, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 295.534, \"end\": 295.714, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 295.714, \"end\": 295.915, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 295.915, \"end\": 296.495, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 296.495, \"end\": 296.575, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 296.575, \"end\": 296.695, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 296.695, \"end\": 296.795, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 296.795, \"end\": 296.916, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 296.916, \"end\": 297.016, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 297.016, \"end\": 297.176, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 297.176, \"end\": 297.316, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 297.316, \"end\": 298.737, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 298.737, \"end\": 299.037, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 299.037, \"end\": 299.298, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 299.298, \"end\": 299.318, \"score\": 0.42}]}, {\"start\": 299.958, \"end\": 328.267, \"text\": \"國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 299.958, \"end\": 300.158, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 300.158, \"end\": 300.358, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 300.358, \"end\": 300.598, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 300.598, \"end\": 300.938, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, 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\"在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 807.566, \"end\": 807.746, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 807.746, \"end\": 807.926, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 807.926, \"end\": 808.787, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 808.787, \"end\": 808.967, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 808.967, \"end\": 809.187, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 809.187, \"end\": 810.327, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 810.327, \"end\": 811.528, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 811.528, \"end\": 811.748, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 811.748, \"end\": 811.968, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 811.968, \"end\": 812.108, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 812.108, \"end\": 812.468, \"score\": 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 948.125, \"end\": 948.165, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 948.165, \"end\": 948.305, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 948.305, \"end\": 948.325, \"score\": 0.228}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,329\n麻煩再請卓院長備詢。\n\n2\n00:00:36,394 --> 00:00:55,581\n林委員好院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統\n\n3\n00:00:57,061 --> 00:01:19,922\n行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲\n\n4\n00:01:21,341 --> 00:01:26,586\n謝謝委員。就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院\n\n5\n00:01:27,608 --> 00:01:53,948\n都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團、民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提\n\n6\n00:01:56,770 --> 00:01:56,790\n好﹖\n\n7\n00:02:24,580 --> 00:02:46,397\n那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天\n\n8\n00:02:46,977 --> 00:02:47,177\n﹚林宜瑾\n\n9\n00:03:17,097 --> 00:03:44,545\n根據中國的標準,你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪,然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應?因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權,所以我不認為我背任何死罪,我活著為台灣就好了。所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權,透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主,這是天大的笑話。所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民,\n\n10\n00:03:45,825 --> 00:04:14,714\n也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行\n\n11\n00:04:16,005 --> 00:04:33,816\n對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入,您都說就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。\n\n12\n00:04:34,736 --> 00:04:59,318\n好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密\n\n13\n00:04:59,958 --> 00:05:28,267\n國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委\n\n14\n00:05:29,247 --> 00:05:29,267\n請問院長﹖\n\n15\n00:05:55,333 --> 00:06:14,318\n如果在這樣的狀況之下我國欠缺對立委附中納管的規範那是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮那如果是有真的有立委在中國遭到羅茲罪狀的時候那肯定會進一步升高臺灣跟中國兩國的衝突那院長你怎麼看\n\n16\n00:06:15,910 --> 00:06:34,321\n謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者。他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力\n\n17\n00:06:34,821 --> 00:06:35,121\n﹚林宜瑾\n\n18\n00:06:57,225 --> 00:07:05,972\n但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產\n\n19\n00:07:07,583 --> 00:07:34,270\n另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委附中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例\n\n20\n00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:57,008\n所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員,那梁副主委有強調,他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情,陸委會曾經行文立法院,那立法院從來沒有回覆,那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查,可是唯獨立法院不遵守。\n\n21\n00:07:58,309 --> 00:08:11,538\n在質詢之後,梁副主委、陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答,他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政府官、地方首長、\n\n22\n00:08:12,739 --> 00:08:13,539\n（6月21日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n23\n00:08:37,631 --> 00:08:55,623\n所以根據兩岸人民關係條例違反第9條第4項規定要處200萬以上1000萬以下的罰款那請問院長對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開罰了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範\n\n24\n00:08:57,073 --> 00:08:57,333\n王前院長\n\n25\n00:09:22,205 --> 00:09:34,046\n我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的\n\n26\n00:09:34,326 --> 00:09:55,684\n好,那再來跟院長談到中正經驗談個轉型的問題喔。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費,紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面喔,包括李永德部長,史哲部長,現在的李遠部長,也都被我質詢過這一題。\n\n27\n00:09:57,145 --> 00:10:21,222\n那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體\n\n28\n00:10:24,264 --> 00:10:52,873\n改駐所在升旗台那裡（6月11日姑部長有回答邱志偉委員答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些要作為的時間\n\n29\n00:10:54,173 --> 00:11:23,763\n第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答．昨天院長也有提到說．如果三軍一隊駐守在忠烈祠．那這種代表的是．他對我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬．那造成的爭議．就不會像住房在忠正建堂那麼大．換句話說．三軍一隊為什麼住房．住房的背後的意義．跟論述非常的重要．所以我們現在才再回頭來請教．那三軍一隊．如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場．那它的代表的意義是什麼．\n\n30\n00:11:24,963 --> 00:11:44,850\n國防部附以操練的意義是什麼?是觀光嗎?部長先回答。跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。我們國防部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。\n\n31\n00:11:46,691 --> 00:12:08,908\n就有將我們的主張傳達給文化部,也就是說將三軍儀隊從離開場地到自由廣場來進行操演。大概已經協調差不多,到底是什麼時候來執行這件事情,可能最後要由文化部做一個最後的排版。所以是文化部主導嗎?\n\n32\n00:12:08,908 --> 00:12:11,129\n我們國防部是完全配合。\n\n33\n00:12:12,933 --> 00:12:17,868\n國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃（就把這一隊的操演移到自由廣場（好\n\n34\n00:12:19,548 --> 00:12:46,286\n院長拜託這個時間不要再拖了我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的那我們現在跟國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種\n\n35\n00:12:46,966 --> 00:13:02,198\n一對的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久\n\n36\n00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:26,866\n我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央耳提面面那好不容易在去年\n\n37\n00:13:27,566 --> 00:13:53,716\n在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30\n\n38\n00:13:55,317 --> 00:14:22,934\n前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那\n\n39\n00:14:24,835 --> 00:14:49,727\n我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響\n\n40\n00:14:50,307 --> 00:15:17,017\n但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理,我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的...因為院長,這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小,因為本來就放假,產業本來就放假,反而是軍公教不放假,這個假設是一個學校的話,一個公立學校,那老師學生都要去上課,可是由裡面的工友,裡面的雛工,\n\n41\n00:15:17,897 --> 00:15:20,098\n所以我想這件事情要請院長\n\n42\n00:15:47,605 --> 00:15:48,325\n我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t329\t麻煩再請卓院長備詢。\n36394\t55581\t林委員好院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統\n57061\t79922\t行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲\n81341\t86586\t謝謝委員。 就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院\n87608\t113948\t都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團、民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提\n116770\t116790\t好﹖\n144580\t166397\t那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天\n166977\t167177\t﹚林宜瑾\n197097\t224545\t根據中國的標準,你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪,然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應?因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權,所以我不認為我背任何死罪,我活著為台灣就好了。所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權,透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主,這是天大的笑話。所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民,\n225825\t254714\t也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行\n256005\t273816\t對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入,您都說就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。\n274736\t299318\t好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密\n299958\t328267\t國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委\n329247\t329267\t請問院長﹖\n355333\t374318\t如果在這樣的狀況之下我國欠缺對立委附中納管的規範那是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮那如果是有真的有立委在中國遭到羅茲罪狀的時候那肯定會進一步升高臺灣跟中國兩國的衝突那院長你怎麼看\n375910\t394321\t謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者。他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力\n394821\t395121\t﹚林宜瑾\n417225\t425972\t但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產\n427583\t454270\t另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委附中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例\n455530\t477008\t所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員,那梁副主委有強調,他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情,陸委會曾經行文立法院,那立法院從來沒有回覆,那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查,可是唯獨立法院不遵守。\n478309\t491538\t在質詢之後,梁副主委、陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答,他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政府官、地方首長、\n492739\t493539\t（6月21日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n517631\t535623\t所以根據兩岸人民關係條例違反第9條第4項規定要處200萬以上1000萬以下的罰款那請問院長對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開罰了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範\n537073\t537333\t王前院長\n562205\t574046\t我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的\n574326\t595684\t好,那再來跟院長談到中正經驗談個轉型的問題喔。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費,紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面喔,包括李永德部長,史哲部長,現在的李遠部長,也都被我質詢過這一題。\n597145\t621222\t那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體\n624264\t652873\t改駐所在升旗台那裡（6月11日姑部長有回答邱志偉委員答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些要作為的時間\n654173\t683763\t第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答．昨天院長也有提到說．如果三軍一隊駐守在忠烈祠．那這種代表的是．他對我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬．那造成的爭議．就不會像住房在忠正建堂那麼大．換句話說．三軍一隊為什麼住房．住房的背後的意義．跟論述非常的重要．所以我們現在才再回頭來請教．那三軍一隊．如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場．那它的代表的意義是什麼．\n684963\t704850\t國防部附以操練的意義是什麼?是觀光嗎?部長先回答。跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。我們國防部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。\n706691\t728908\t就有將我們的主張傳達給文化部,也就是說將三軍儀隊從離開場地到自由廣場來進行操演。大概已經協調差不多,到底是什麼時候來執行這件事情,可能最後要由文化部做一個最後的排版。 所以是文化部主導嗎?\n728908\t731129\t我們國防部是完全配合。\n732933\t737868\t國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃（就把這一隊的操演移到自由廣場（好\n739548\t766286\t院長拜託這個時間不要再拖了我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的那我們現在跟國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種\n766966\t782198\t一對的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久\n784420\t806866\t我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央耳提面面那好不容易在去年\n807566\t833716\t在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30\n835317\t862934\t前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那\n864835\t889727\t我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響\n890307\t917017\t但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理,我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的...因為院長,這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小,因為本來就放假,產業本來就放假,反而是軍公教不放假,這個假設是一個學校的話,一個公立學校,那老師學生都要去上課,可是由裡面的工友,裡面的雛工,\n917897\t920098\t所以我想這件事情要請院長\n947605\t948325\t我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。\n","txt":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。\n林委員好院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統\n行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲\n謝謝委員。 就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院\n都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團、民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提\n好﹖\n那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天\n﹚林宜瑾\n根據中國的標準,你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪,然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應?因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權,所以我不認為我背任何死罪,我活著為台灣就好了。所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權,透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主,這是天大的笑話。所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民,\n也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行\n對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入,您都說就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。\n好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密\n國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委\n請問院長﹖\n如果在這樣的狀況之下我國欠缺對立委附中納管的規範那是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮那如果是有真的有立委在中國遭到羅茲罪狀的時候那肯定會進一步升高臺灣跟中國兩國的衝突那院長你怎麼看\n謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者。他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力\n﹚林宜瑾\n但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產\n另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委附中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例\n所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員,那梁副主委有強調,他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情,陸委會曾經行文立法院,那立法院從來沒有回覆,那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查,可是唯獨立法院不遵守。\n在質詢之後,梁副主委、陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答,他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政府官、地方首長、\n（6月21日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n所以根據兩岸人民關係條例違反第9條第4項規定要處200萬以上1000萬以下的罰款那請問院長對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開罰了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範\n王前院長\n我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的\n好,那再來跟院長談到中正經驗談個轉型的問題喔。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費,紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面喔,包括李永德部長,史哲部長,現在的李遠部長,也都被我質詢過這一題。\n那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體\n改駐所在升旗台那裡（6月11日姑部長有回答邱志偉委員答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些要作為的時間\n第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答．昨天院長也有提到說．如果三軍一隊駐守在忠烈祠．那這種代表的是．他對我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬．那造成的爭議．就不會像住房在忠正建堂那麼大．換句話說．三軍一隊為什麼住房．住房的背後的意義．跟論述非常的重要．所以我們現在才再回頭來請教．那三軍一隊．如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場．那它的代表的意義是什麼．\n國防部附以操練的意義是什麼?是觀光嗎?部長先回答。跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。我們國防部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。\n就有將我們的主張傳達給文化部,也就是說將三軍儀隊從離開場地到自由廣場來進行操演。大概已經協調差不多,到底是什麼時候來執行這件事情,可能最後要由文化部做一個最後的排版。 所以是文化部主導嗎?\n我們國防部是完全配合。\n國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃（就把這一隊的操演移到自由廣場（好\n院長拜託這個時間不要再拖了我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的那我們現在跟國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種\n一對的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久\n我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央耳提面面那好不容易在去年\n在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30\n前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那\n我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響\n但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理,我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的...因為院長,這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小,因為本來就放假,產業本來就放假,反而是軍公教不放假,這個假設是一個學校的話,一個公立學校,那老師學生都要去上課,可是由裡面的工友,裡面的雛工,\n所以我想這件事情要請院長\n我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.329\n麻煩再請卓院長備詢。\n\n00:36.394 --> 00:55.581\n林委員好院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統\n\n00:57.061 --> 01:19.922\n行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲\n\n01:21.341 --> 01:26.586\n謝謝委員。就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院\n\n01:27.608 --> 01:53.948\n都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團、民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提\n\n01:56.770 --> 01:56.790\n好﹖\n\n02:24.580 --> 02:46.397\n那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天\n\n02:46.977 --> 02:47.177\n﹚林宜瑾\n\n03:17.097 --> 03:44.545\n根據中國的標準,你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪,然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應?因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權,所以我不認為我背任何死罪,我活著為台灣就好了。所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權,透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主,這是天大的笑話。所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民,\n\n03:45.825 --> 04:14.714\n也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行\n\n04:16.005 --> 04:33.816\n對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入,您都說就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。\n\n04:34.736 --> 04:59.318\n好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密\n\n04:59.958 --> 05:28.267\n國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委\n\n05:29.247 --> 05:29.267\n請問院長﹖\n\n05:55.333 --> 06:14.318\n如果在這樣的狀況之下我國欠缺對立委附中納管的規範那是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮那如果是有真的有立委在中國遭到羅茲罪狀的時候那肯定會進一步升高臺灣跟中國兩國的衝突那院長你怎麼看\n\n06:15.910 --> 06:34.321\n謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者。他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力\n\n06:34.821 --> 06:35.121\n﹚林宜瑾\n\n06:57.225 --> 07:05.972\n但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產\n\n07:07.583 --> 07:34.270\n另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委附中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例\n\n07:35.530 --> 07:57.008\n所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員,那梁副主委有強調,他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情,陸委會曾經行文立法院,那立法院從來沒有回覆,那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查,可是唯獨立法院不遵守。\n\n07:58.309 --> 08:11.538\n在質詢之後,梁副主委、陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答,他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政府官、地方首長、\n\n08:12.739 --> 08:13.539\n（6月21日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。\n\n08:37.631 --> 08:55.623\n所以根據兩岸人民關係條例違反第9條第4項規定要處200萬以上1000萬以下的罰款那請問院長對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開罰了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範\n\n08:57.073 --> 08:57.333\n王前院長\n\n09:22.205 --> 09:34.046\n我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的\n\n09:34.326 --> 09:55.684\n好,那再來跟院長談到中正經驗談個轉型的問題喔。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費,紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面喔,包括李永德部長,史哲部長,現在的李遠部長,也都被我質詢過這一題。\n\n09:57.145 --> 10:21.222\n那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體\n\n10:24.264 --> 10:52.873\n改駐所在升旗台那裡（6月11日姑部長有回答邱志偉委員答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些要作為的時間\n\n10:54.173 --> 11:23.763\n第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答．昨天院長也有提到說．如果三軍一隊駐守在忠烈祠．那這種代表的是．他對我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬．那造成的爭議．就不會像住房在忠正建堂那麼大．換句話說．三軍一隊為什麼住房．住房的背後的意義．跟論述非常的重要．所以我們現在才再回頭來請教．那三軍一隊．如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場．那它的代表的意義是什麼．\n\n11:24.963 --> 11:44.850\n國防部附以操練的意義是什麼?是觀光嗎?部長先回答。跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。我們國防部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。\n\n11:46.691 --> 12:08.908\n就有將我們的主張傳達給文化部,也就是說將三軍儀隊從離開場地到自由廣場來進行操演。大概已經協調差不多,到底是什麼時候來執行這件事情,可能最後要由文化部做一個最後的排版。所以是文化部主導嗎?\n\n12:08.908 --> 12:11.129\n我們國防部是完全配合。\n\n12:12.933 --> 12:17.868\n國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃（就把這一隊的操演移到自由廣場（好\n\n12:19.548 --> 12:46.286\n院長拜託這個時間不要再拖了我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的那我們現在跟國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種\n\n12:46.966 --> 13:02.198\n一對的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久\n\n13:04.420 --> 13:26.866\n我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央耳提面面那好不容易在去年\n\n13:27.566 --> 13:53.716\n在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30\n\n13:55.317 --> 14:22.934\n前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那\n\n14:24.835 --> 14:49.727\n我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響\n\n14:50.307 --> 15:17.017\n但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理,我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的...因為院長,這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小,因為本來就放假,產業本來就放假,反而是軍公教不放假,這個假設是一個學校的話,一個公立學校,那老師學生都要去上課,可是由裡面的工友,裡面的雛工,\n\n15:17.897 --> 15:20.098\n所以我想這件事情要請院長\n\n15:47.605 --> 15:48.325\n我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.329,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"},{"start":36.394,"end":55.581,"text":"林委員好院長好賴清德總統昨天已經表明針對藍白國會擴權的惡法會向憲法法庭申請釋憲及暫時處分以守護國家的憲政體系也深化台灣的民主守護人民的權利那其實不只總統"},{"start":57.061,"end":79.922,"text":"行政院還有立法院的民進黨團還有監察院也都有表態要申請釋憲那然而我想在違憲疑慮都還沒有獲得釐清之前民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱要立刻啟動國會聽證調查那請問院長你怎麼看民眾黨這樣的作為那依行政院的立場要對在野黨有什麼樣的呼籲"},{"start":81.341,"end":86.586,"text":"謝謝委員。 就是因為包括總統府、行政院跟監察院"},{"start":87.608,"end":113.948,"text":"都提出了對這個法案違憲的一些疑慮所以都有接下來的包括立法院黨團、民進黨黨團所以我們想應該在維持憲政秩序穩定的狀態底下應該讓大法官的憲法法庭做最後裁定之後這個法到底可行不可行違憲不違憲那時候才會確定下來在此之前我認為所有的憲政機關都應該以穩定憲政為前提"},{"start":116.77,"end":116.79,"text":"好﹖"},{"start":144.58,"end":166.397,"text":"那再來要跟院長討論就是說中國最近說要嚴懲台獨份子那不但可以進行缺席審判那最重要還可以辦到死刑那我想在臺灣每個人都是台獨份子每個人也可以都不是台獨份子怎麼說呢首先只是生活在臺灣只要生活在臺灣我想每一個人每一天"},{"start":166.977,"end":167.177,"text":"﹚林宜瑾"},{"start":197.097,"end":224.545,"text":"根據中國的標準,你覺得你自己背了幾條死罪,然後對於中國的放話你有什麼樣的回應?因為他對我們沒有司法管轄權,所以我不認為我背任何死罪,我活著為台灣就好了。所以一個不民主而且法治不完備的政權,透過他的法治不完備來侵犯台灣的民主,這是天大的笑話。所以我說行政院的立場保護在國內的國民,"},{"start":225.825,"end":254.714,"text":"也希望我們去到國外的人因為你有這張護照你必須去到當地國因為你可以進出他就必須當地國政府必須保障你的人身自由但是要去到大陸不管你做任何的訪問或是往來你必須清楚知道有沒有能力保護你自己因為他現在對我們是非常消極的但是手段是非常惡毒的你必須能夠保護自己否則我們真的勸全國的國人應該三思而後行"},{"start":256.005,"end":273.816,"text":"對,因為就是如同您說的,中國無權來恣意對我國國民進行所謂的制裁。那可是一旦踏入,您都說就像踏入中國一樣,或者踏入比他跟中國友好而且親友司法引渡條例的這個國家,那我想我們就不可不慎了。"},{"start":274.736,"end":299.318,"text":"好那接下來要跟院長討論就是說立委附中納管的問題也就是沈博洋委員首先提出的那本席跟多位民進黨委員也有後續提出那像我本席的案子今天又在國民黨跟民眾黨聯手之下在程序委員會被封殺了好那這個條例就是兩岸人民關係條例的修正案那在我們的提案中有規範與國家秘密"},{"start":299.958,"end":328.267,"text":"國家安全相關人員若要前往中國就必須要行前申請經過審查而且在中國如果跟黨政軍相關人有接觸還要申報他接觸的這個狀況交往的情形跟內容那當然我們很清楚知道我們的提案是以台灣保護台灣國家安全的立場為出發點那在中國無所不用其極的打壓台灣的主權跟國人安全的狀態之下我想為了維護國人的安全立委"},{"start":329.247,"end":329.267,"text":"請問院長﹖"},{"start":355.333,"end":374.318,"text":"如果在這樣的狀況之下我國欠缺對立委附中納管的規範那是不是會造成立委人身安全的疑慮那如果是有真的有立委在中國遭到羅茲罪狀的時候那肯定會進一步升高臺灣跟中國兩國的衝突那院長你怎麼看"},{"start":375.91,"end":394.321,"text":"謝謝委員,也許換一個角度來看,立委是國會議員,也是國家重要的政治工作者。他要去到一個我們認為不是安全的地方,如果讓政府能夠提早事先知道,或是國會裡面有一套自我管理的這個權利,我們也會比較有能力"},{"start":394.821,"end":395.121,"text":"﹚林宜瑾"},{"start":417.225,"end":425.972,"text":"但是去到特殊的地方不安全的地方對人生有威脅的地方我想政府跟人民都有這樣的義務來保障國家重要的資產"},{"start":427.583,"end":454.27,"text":"另外跟院長說明5月29日本席在內政委員會有質詢立委附中納管這個問題的時候那時候梁文傑副主委他的回應是說就立委會的立場而言前往中國接受虛數審查的人員在現行兩岸人民關係條例裡面其實就有包括立法院的人員但是長久以來立法院都沒有按照兩岸人民關係條例"},{"start":455.53,"end":477.008,"text":"所要求去提列那些前往中國的人員,那梁副主委有強調,他說針對立法院長期違規的這件事情,陸委會曾經行文立法院,那立法院從來沒有回覆,那從經察院到地方法院到全國各機關人員都會接受附中的審查,可是唯獨立法院不遵守。"},{"start":478.309,"end":491.538,"text":"在質詢之後,梁副主委、陸委會也進一步透過書面的回答,他說實務上政府總統除了立法院之外的四院院長、政府官、地方首長、"},{"start":492.739,"end":493.539,"text":"（6月21日．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。．8時50分為處理臨時提案時間。"},{"start":517.631,"end":535.623,"text":"所以根據兩岸人民關係條例違反第9條第4項規定要處200萬以上1000萬以下的罰款那請問院長對於立法院知法犯法的行為這個開罰了嗎那該如何要嚴格執法讓立法院可以遵守這個規範"},{"start":537.073,"end":537.333,"text":"王前院長"},{"start":562.205,"end":574.046,"text":"我希望他安全的回來告訴我們將來如何保護自己的安全如果這個是一個過程的話那我們希望說能夠促進大家更有效的對自己人身安全的顧慮跟保障這個才是重要的"},{"start":574.326,"end":595.684,"text":"好,那再來跟院長談到中正經驗談個轉型的問題喔。利用國家資源,然後強迫全民浪費,紀念獨裁者,這件極度不合理的事情,我從大學時期就一路反對到現在。在教育委員會裡面喔,包括李永德部長,史哲部長,現在的李遠部長,也都被我質詢過這一題。"},{"start":597.145,"end":621.222,"text":"那我想在院會我也跟孫昌院長討論過就是促轉會提出任務總結報告後各部會的轉型正義的工作的交接狀況那根據促轉會的總結報告我進一步有在院會跟陳建仁院長有討論過在中正進黨的轉型的過程中有一件事情是此時此刻我們就可以做的就是撤離三軍儀隊又或者至少讓三軍儀隊離開堂體"},{"start":624.264,"end":652.873,"text":"改駐所在升旗台那裡（6月11日姑部長有回答邱志偉委員答詢的時候您個人的看法有說一對是可以移到自由廣場進行操練也等於說回應了本席長期的倡議那不過今天想要進一步跟院長跟部長請教的是第一若使這些要作為的時間"},{"start":654.173,"end":683.763,"text":"第二,就是上一次針對這項議題的詢答．昨天院長也有提到說．如果三軍一隊駐守在忠烈祠．那這種代表的是．他對我們對壯烈犧牲官兵的尊敬．那造成的爭議．就不會像住房在忠正建堂那麼大．換句話說．三軍一隊為什麼住房．住房的背後的意義．跟論述非常的重要．所以我們現在才再回頭來請教．那三軍一隊．如果真的移往所謂的自由廣場．那它的代表的意義是什麼．"},{"start":684.963,"end":704.85,"text":"國防部附以操練的意義是什麼?是觀光嗎?部長先回答。跟委員報告,因為三菁儀殿現在有關他要如何進行操演,現在是文化部在主管。我們國防部已經跟文化部已經經過,我不曉得應該有一兩三次的協調。"},{"start":706.691,"end":728.908,"text":"就有將我們的主張傳達給文化部,也就是說將三軍儀隊從離開場地到自由廣場來進行操演。大概已經協調差不多,到底是什麼時候來執行這件事情,可能最後要由文化部做一個最後的排版。 所以是文化部主導嗎?"},{"start":728.908,"end":731.129,"text":"我們國防部是完全配合。"},{"start":732.933,"end":737.868,"text":"國防部完全配合文化部,所以文化部在規劃（就把這一隊的操演移到自由廣場（好"},{"start":739.548,"end":766.286,"text":"院長拜託這個時間不要再拖了我期待下一個會期的質詢就不要再質詢這個議題了我們都應該承認中正紀念堂的定義跟他的意義社會上還是存在不同的看法的那我們現在跟國防部跟文化部就是在掃尋一個大家最能夠接受共識最高的方式同樣表達我們對國家過去歷史的一個認知但是也讓更多的民眾可以在更寬廣的地方看得到這種"},{"start":766.966,"end":782.198,"text":"一對的表演代表國家的一種軍隊文化對國家的效忠對沒錯好那拜託這件事情儘速處理假設有共識的話那另外我想最後要跟院長探討五一勞動節全國一致性放假這個議題喔院長其實這個議題本身做了很久"},{"start":784.42,"end":806.866,"text":"我在2020選第一次立委的時候就把這個議題放進我的政見裡面那當上立委之後我就馬上跟當時的蘇貞昌院長提議這件事情那後來陳建仁院長上任我也一直跟他倡議那我想對於勞動解放假這個議題本席不斷的跟中央耳提面面那好不容易在去年"},{"start":807.566,"end":833.716,"text":"在今年陳建仁院長有說好好的要來研議那可能會有一些共識要作為全國性一致放假的這個狀況那我想很快就會有答案他是這樣說當然很遺憾今年的午1還是沒看到放假那理由是說時間太倉促因為我們通常都是今年的這個假期都是去年的6月30"},{"start":835.317,"end":862.934,"text":"前會公布今年的行事曆那表示明年的行事曆今年6月30號會公布那所以好我想要請問院長的是這件事情到底有沒有譜就是說明年五一勞動節全面放假這件事確實如委員所說這個明年的行事曆現在在行政院裡面他正在尋一定的程序在往上來處理那"},{"start":864.835,"end":889.727,"text":"我們對於勞工的尊重跟理解我們五一勞動節是勞工有放假但是其他的也有類似這樣的單一職業別或類別的假期是沒有放假的那這個我們從常來規劃因為我們現在全國一年當中的放假日已經達到117天了117天比過去又多了幾天所以在這樣的情況底下我們必須考慮到勞僱雙方的關係還有整個社會其他層面的影響"},{"start":890.307,"end":917.017,"text":"但是現在既然這個案已經在院內裡面在處理,我們就用一種全新的感覺去感覺說這個到底對社會的...因為院長,這個假日是對這個產業衝擊最小,因為本來就放假,產業本來就放假,反而是軍公教不放假,這個假設是一個學校的話,一個公立學校,那老師學生都要去上課,可是由裡面的工友,裡面的雛工,"},{"start":917.897,"end":920.098,"text":"所以我想這件事情要請院長"},{"start":947.605,"end":948.325,"text":"我們再繼續研究,謝謝委員指教,謝謝。"}]}}}}