{"id":154220,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154220","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd15efa3bbc04f59a81309e96bb53525717ee23585586e40b3adbd0472593671f0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳永康","委員發言時間":"09:52:17 - 10:04:42","影片長度":"00:12:25","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條、第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員賴士葆等21人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員羅智強等24人分別擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T09:52:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:04:42+08:00","duration":745,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":171,"blocks":[["陳委員永康：（9時52分）主席好。因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經質詢過院長跟部長，今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考，所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將。"],["主席：請梅總長。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：委員好。"],["陳委員永康：總長好。過去我們同事多年，互動學習累積經驗，個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶，今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任，在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責來看，所以我今天不是質詢，理論上，我做出的是建言，不涉及到你的指揮管制。","很高興看到這次的漢光40號裡面，第一次導入了所謂的接戰規則或者戰務令，我們不管這個ROE（Rules of  Engagement）叫做接戰或是交戰或是戰務令，我先把這個背景向您說。第一次國軍把ROE導入是劉和謙前參謀總長在民國67年把這個觀念導進來，當時有中美協防條約，沒有斷交，所以我們在協防司令部會提供很充足的文件，這麼多年以來，因為中間就失去在過去ROE上面的研析，過去很多同仁沿用一個字叫「SOP」，我想總長也瞭解，這是標準作業程序，是行政流程的責任擔當，但是從上到下一個版本，那ROE就有不同了，這張圖其實在您剛才回答前面委員時所講的，很多觀念你已經講進去了，這邊僅供參考。","我們在這邊問政，對國軍作建言的時候，我們通常是目的、方法、手段，適員、作法、建議。我們這邊提供一個建議，要培育國軍熟稔戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員，藉由常態化戰場的訓練，官兵將交戰或接戰準則深植人心。我在這邊向各位報告，這個是2019年北約版的ROE，這本書已經提供了，現在在法律司，我也希望大家能夠深入研究，能夠導入到我們不同的層級裡面，這個是需要在課程中間上，而不是只有漢光演習才用，所以也建議國防大學或者國軍的法治教育要把這個納入課程。","這一次您提到要去中心化，我們在想定、反想定裡面都有授權，就是剛剛您講的基層，我們設定了目標、方法、手段以及建議，現在建議裡面事項就產生，就是當我們在做作戰區的時候，有一個想定的前提，第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼臺統統失效，要靠國軍的微波載臺以及目前我們的衛星，但是中興二號快到期，中興五號的功能還有待展示驗證。低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約，我強烈建議要跟所謂的數發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬，這個要及早定義。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：是。"],["陳委員永康：而不是等事件發生了再做討論，所以我們的目的是要強化戰場的指軌作業能力，這種條件下，光纖是不是仍然有效？國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足？另外就是原有的我們特殊裝備，比方講現在PRC-77，我們講的37C，剛才是因為講到後備，PRC-77已經太老了，37C是不是已經全部部署？這個我們內部要做檢討。","我們需要的就是提升網路的韌性，這邊要特別強調，即便未來低軌衛星可以納入國軍，但是因為整體分配不在我們這邊，所以限制因素乃至於部分未來使用的無人機也要靠這個的話，要及早規劃，納入想定。我們在兵推的時候，反想定裡面可以先把限制因素強化，就表示我有redundancy或者是哪裡不足的部分，我們即便現在在推40，41的時候，我們哪些部分要再強化？","無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家可以看到，烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機，而且大部分用大疆，可是因為幅員廣大，鄉鎮之間距離30公里、城鎮之間100公里，所以在這個連接的道路上，不是烏軍就是俄軍，看到就打，誤擊的機率很低，但是到了以哈戰爭中間，無人機的使用就比較低了，以色列用無人機完全是結合AI，而不是單兵用個人的眼睛去看、識別，所以未來的無人機對AI的導入，可是AI導入以後，又涉及到武裝衝突法、戰務令，這裡面就涉及到指揮官。我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官、第5艦的司令開會提出，他們特別強調，人在鏈路中間，in the loop、on the loop還有完全授權out of loop，這個要及早定義。","我們來看一下北斗系統，北斗是雙向指管，現在所有解放軍的車輛、單兵，甚至到排級，都可以手機接受，但是我們還沒到這個位，未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的使用工具，但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道，它先向國際衛星聯盟登記了，未來短期內、10年內要160個軌道平面、1萬顆衛星。","在俄烏戰爭中間，美方Starlink協助它是4萬6,000個點，每一個點就是一個接收站，周圍的人的手機就要靠過去，1個月要800萬美金，所以我們要有它的好處就要有備援的鈔票，這個要規劃進去，這個圖請做參考。","中國大陸火箭軍也考慮到北斗會被干擾掉或是地面控制站被破壞，於是它利用八縱八橫的光纖，再配合無人機的中繼，這個就是將來我們可以做參考，local不管用浮升器、用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項。反想定就是對方……這個是去年8月4號的投彈軌跡，再加上它的……很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施，到時候功能可能就不完整，甚至部分功能就沒有了，這個時候在我們的運用規劃，就是剛剛你講的權責下授、任務瞭解、授權、責任承擔，這個都是在ROE裡面會define清楚，但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握。這張圖昨天展示過了，就是要模擬彈道，希望在解釋的時候讓國人、國軍有個瞭解。這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習，也就是2024A的利劍，總長請看這上面是臺灣的防空識別區圖，在海峽中線以東，空軍有4個訓練空域，但是我們國防部做簡報的這個圖，就是講我們把中共拒止在24浬以外，並不是用它的圖，可是這個圖上面只有3個訓練空域，我跟你講這張圖是舊圖。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：舊的。"],["陳委員永康：GNC的老版本，我建議圖不只是電子化，還要更新版本，有些要從國外買過來，有些是用我們自己的圖，這個就是套上去，在同一個時間，我們要顯示的不只是中共演習或者我們漢光演習，在下面圖看周遭的海上動態、看民航機的動態，這個要全天限制，你看它的商船、民航機有沒有受到影響，做一個判斷的客觀參考。像這是民航圖，中線以東是4個訓練空域，套上這是今天早上中共的干擾，也就是共同圖像，雖然是數化圖，但是要經過GIS校正、重複套疊，對長官來講，可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。這是5月18號從水面通過的，我特別講，要把金馬外島附近的水下深度圖做校正，因為大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機，所以它的船必然要避開浮航，就是潛艦。事實上，臺灣西海岸未來八年以內會有1,000個離岸風機，這個離岸風機對兩棲登陸是最大的障礙，這個可以做參考，也要標註出來，所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在，即便是少數的紅色，它的規模也只能容納營級的登陸，所以你在演練、假設這個情境發生，部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做，這些都是反想定，每一個想定都很重要，不是會不會發生，而是想定跟想定中間的時間關聯性要把它做出來。","像這個圖是一個示意，臺灣北部這邊是所有的海堤工程、建設工程，根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了，左邊這是外航的想定，這是外面的報告，要把這些圖套上衛星圖、套上我們現在的作戰圖，你的作戰想定就比較合理化，甚至在對面的導彈攻擊、模擬。最後，我們把整個想定過程排解出來，紅軍有紅軍的做法，藍軍有藍軍的做法，雖然紅軍沒有實兵，但演練的科目並不代表每個科目都要，而是互動關係找出來，於此同時要瞭解社會的堅韌性，也就是當時是不是已經比方從D-Day到D+3，民間完全是斷水斷電，國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性，如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電，而只有國軍演練，這個就脫鉤了。以上提供總長做參考，總長有沒有什麼回應？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：報告委員，我們今年其實就是朝向不管您剛才提到的這些想定，然後第二個聯動性，還有所謂這些的連續，其實我們會有這些改變就是要讓國軍能夠突破、能夠進步，更結合實戰，您剛才所提供的這些資訊，我們都會很好的去做一個分析，納入我們非常重要的資訊參考，謝謝您提供這些資訊。"],["陳委員永康：謝謝總長，我最後再用30秒講這個CUES，現在國軍都在用，但是我建議一定要用英文版，不要把它翻成中文。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：是。"],["陳委員永康：即便是在演習期間，我們在臺海周遭巡弋，也可能碰到友好國家的軍艦通過，還是要靠這個CUES，這是我在任內向美方爭取同意供應的，而且是非機密版，它是根據1972年的海上避碰規則以及UNCLOS、1982年聯合國海洋法公約第二十九條，這些東西我希望我們的艦隊官兵能夠充分使用。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：是，瞭解。"],["陳委員永康：好，謝謝。"],["梅參謀總長家樹：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請黃國昌委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-29","speakers":["馬文君","賴士葆","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","黃國昌","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","林憶君","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","吳沛憶","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢；二、審查\n本院委員馬文君等 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{\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 734.764, \"end\": 735.264, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 735.264, \"end\": 735.564, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 735.564, \"end\": 735.764, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 735.764, \"end\": 736.244, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 736.244, \"end\": 736.524, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 736.524, \"end\": 736.705, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 736.705, \"end\": 737.125, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 737.125, \"end\": 737.625, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 737.625, \"end\": 737.645, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,245 --> 00:00:20,300\n主席好因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經邀請這個院長跟部長已經質詢過那麼今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將請梅總長\n\n2\n00:00:30,442 --> 00:00:54,898\n總統好過去我們同事多年互動學習累積經驗個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責所以我今天的不是質詢理論上我做出是建言不涉及到你的指揮管制\n\n3\n00:00:55,913 --> 00:00:56,814\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n4\n00:01:17,386 --> 00:01:29,098\n三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n\n5\n00:01:30,677 --> 00:01:47,128\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇\n\n6\n00:01:54,114 --> 00:02:01,568\n這張圖其實在您剛才的回答前任委員前面講的很多觀念你已經講進去了這邊僅供參考\n\n7\n00:02:04,728 --> 00:02:30,188\n下面我們在這邊問政對國軍作建言的時候我們通常是目的方法、手段、誓言做法、建議那麼我們這邊提供一個建議要培育國軍熟人戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員藉由常態化戰場的訓練官兵將交戰或是接戰準則深植人心我這邊在這邊向各位報告這個是2019年\n\n8\n00:02:32,790 --> 00:02:43,734\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王�\n\n9\n00:02:56,598 --> 00:03:18,477\n那這一次您提到的要去中心化我們在反想定裡面都有授權就是剛剛您講的基層我們設定了目標方法手段以及建議現在建議裡面事項就產生就是當我們在做作戰區的時候有一個想定的前提第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼台通通失效\n\n10\n00:03:19,218 --> 00:03:34,710\n要靠國軍的微波載台以及目前我們的衛星但是中興二號快到期中興五號的功能還有待要展示、驗證那低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約我強烈建議\n\n11\n00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:55,121\n要跟這個所謂速發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬這個要及早定義而不是等事件發生了再做討論所以我們目的是要強化戰場的指揮作業能力那這種條件下就是光纖是不是仍然有效國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足\n\n12\n00:03:58,143 --> 00:04:13,215\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n\n13\n00:04:26,704 --> 00:04:46,193\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王�\n\n14\n00:04:54,538 --> 00:05:14,186\n無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家看到烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機而且大部分用大漿可是因為幅員廣大這個鄉鎮之間距離30公里城鎮之間100公里所以在這個連接的道路上不是烏軍就是俄軍看到就打誤擊的機率很低\n\n15\n00:05:15,103 --> 00:05:36,051\n但是到了以哈戰爭中間無人機的使用就比較低了那麼以色列用無人機完全是結合AI而不是單兵用眼睛個人去看識別所以未來的無人機對AI的導入可是AI導入以後又涉及到的武裝衝突法戰務令這裡面就涉及到指揮官\n\n16\n00:05:37,291 --> 00:05:49,520\n我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官第五屆的司令開會提出他們特別強調在這個人吶在這個鏈路中間intheloopontheloop還有完全授權outofloop這個要及早定義\n\n17\n00:05:51,684 --> 00:06:16,394\n那我們來看一下這個北斗系統北斗是雙向指管他現在已經所有他的解放軍的車輛單兵甚至到排級都可以手機接受但是我們還沒到這個位未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的一個使用工具但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道他先向國際衛星聯盟登記了未來短期內10年內要160個軌道平面1萬顆衛星\n\n18\n00:06:21,172 --> 00:06:41,545\n那麼在俄烏戰爭中間,美方啊,這個Starlink協助它是46000個點那每一個點就是一個接收站,但周圍的人手機就要靠過去,一個月要800萬美金所以我們這個要有它的好處,就要有備援的鈔票,這個要規劃進去,這個圖請做參考\n\n19\n00:06:46,483 --> 00:07:04,865\n中國大陸這個火箭軍的他也考慮到他可能被北斗會被干擾掉或者地面控制站破壞於是他利用八重八橫的光纖再配合無人機的中繼那這個就是將來我們可以做參考local不管用伏身器用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項\n\n20\n00:07:08,271 --> 00:07:34,893\n那反響定就是對方這個是去年8月4號的投擔軌跡再加上他的很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施可能到時候功能可能就不完整甚至部分功能就沒有了那這個時候在我們的運用規劃就剛剛你講的權責下售、任務了解、授權、責任承擔這個都是在ROE裡面會defend清楚了但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握\n\n21\n00:07:38,102 --> 00:07:56,795\n這張圖昨天展示過了就是要模擬彈道那希望在解釋的時候對國人、貴國軍的有個瞭解這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習就是這個2024利劍2024A的利劍總長請看這上面這個是台灣的防空識別區的圖這邊有四個在海峽中線以東空軍有四個訓練空域\n\n22\n00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:24,090\n但是我們國防部做了簡報的這個圖就是講我們把中共拒止在24里外並不是用他的圖可是這個圖上面只有三個訓練空隱我跟你講這張圖是舊圖GNC的這個老版本我建議圖不只是電子化\n\n23\n00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:52,528\n要更新版本有些是要從國外買過來有些是請我們自己的圖那這個就是套上去在這個同一個時間我們要顯示到就是說不只是中共演習或者我們漢光王演習在周遭下面圖看海上的動態看民航機的動態這個要全天限制你看他的商船民航機有沒有受到影響做你一個判斷的客觀參考像這個是民航圖\n\n24\n00:08:53,905 --> 00:09:11,179\n中縣以東市4個訓練空域,套上這是今天早上中共干擾的,就是說共同圖像,雖然是數畫的圖,但是要經過GIS校正,重複套疊,對長官來講可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。\n\n25\n00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:25,116\n這次5月18號從水面通過我特別講要把金馬外島附近的水下的深度圖要做校正因為在大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機\n\n26\n00:09:26,590 --> 00:09:41,247\n所以他的船必然要避開扶航就是潛艦那事實上臺灣的西海岸未來8年以內會有1000個離岸風機這個離岸風機是對兩溪登陸是最大的障礙這個可以做參考也要標註出來\n\n27\n00:09:44,946 --> 00:10:10,655\n所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在即便是少數的紅色它的規模也只能容納迎擊的登陸所以你在演練假設這個情境發生部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做這個都是反想定這個每一個想定都很重要不是會不會發生而是想定跟想定中間的時間的關聯性要把它做出來像這個圖是一個示意台灣北部\n\n28\n00:10:13,073 --> 00:10:41,288\n這裏是所有的海堤工程建設工程根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了所以左邊的這個是外航的想定這是外面的報告要把這些圖套上衛星圖套上我們現在作案圖那你的作戰想定就比較合理化那甚至在對面這個導彈的攻擊模擬那最後就是說我們把一個整個的想定過程排解出來\n\n29\n00:10:42,689 --> 00:11:11,134\n紅軍有紅軍的做法藍軍難做雖然紅軍沒有實兵但是你演練的科目並不代表每個科目多要但是互動關係找出來在這個同時要了解社會的堅韌性就是當時是不是已經比方講從D隊到D加3完全民間是斷水斷電國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電而只有國軍演練這個就脫鉤了以上提供總長做參考\n\n30\n00:11:12,294 --> 00:11:38,472\n總長有沒有什麼回應?委員我們今年其實就是朝向的就是不管您剛才提到的這些的想定然後第二個聯動性還有所謂的這些的連續其實我們會有這些的改變其實就是讓國軍能夠突破能夠進步更結合實戰那您剛才所提供的這些資訊我們都會很好的去做一個分析納入我們非常重要的一個資訊的參考謝謝您提供的這些資訊\n\n31\n00:11:40,458 --> 00:11:55,703\n最後再問三十兩下,這個CUSE現在國民都在用,但是我建議一定要用英文,不要把它翻成中國語,即便是在演習期間,我們在台海遇到群議,也可能碰到友好國家和軍隊的通過,\n\n32\n00:11:58,237 --> 00:12:17,645\n在任內一方征服同意、共同負面,而且是非機密的。那麼他是根據1972年南韓共同當選,以及Conclause1982年,就是聯合國海洋法公約的第29條,這些東西我希望我們鑒定官方的負責。是,了解,是,是,謝偉。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4245\t20300\t主席好因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經邀請這個院長跟部長已經質詢過那麼今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將請梅總長\n30442\t54898\t總統好過去我們同事多年互動學習累積經驗個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責所以我今天的不是質詢理論上我做出是建言不涉及到你的指揮管制\n55913\t56814\t二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n77386\t89098\t三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n90677\t107128\t委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇\n114114\t121568\t這張圖其實在您剛才的回答前任委員前面講的很多觀念你已經講進去了這邊僅供參考\n124728\t150188\t下面我們在這邊問政對國軍作建言的時候我們通常是目的方法、手段、誓言做法、建議那麼我們這邊提供一個建議要培育國軍熟人戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員藉由常態化戰場的訓練官兵將交戰或是接戰準則深植人心我這邊在這邊向各位報告這個是2019年\n152790\t163734\t二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王�\n176598\t198477\t那這一次您提到的要去中心化我們在反想定裡面都有授權就是剛剛您講的基層我們設定了目標方法手段以及建議現在建議裡面事項就產生就是當我們在做作戰區的時候有一個想定的前提第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼台通通失效\n199218\t214710\t要靠國軍的微波載台以及目前我們的衛星但是中興二號快到期中興五號的功能還有待要展示、驗證那低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約我強烈建議\n215410\t235121\t要跟這個所謂速發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬這個要及早定義而不是等事件發生了再做討論所以我們目的是要強化戰場的指揮作業能力那這種條件下就是光纖是不是仍然有效國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足\n238143\t253215\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n266704\t286193\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王�\n294538\t314186\t無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家看到烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機而且大部分用大漿可是因為幅員廣大這個鄉鎮之間距離30公里城鎮之間100公里所以在這個連接的道路上不是烏軍就是俄軍看到就打誤擊的機率很低\n315103\t336051\t但是到了以哈戰爭中間無人機的使用就比較低了那麼以色列用無人機完全是結合AI而不是單兵用眼睛個人去看識別所以未來的無人機對AI的導入可是AI導入以後又涉及到的武裝衝突法戰務令這裡面就涉及到指揮官\n337291\t349520\t我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官第五屆的司令開會提出他們特別強調在這個人吶在這個鏈路中間in the loop on the loop還有完全授權out of loop這個要及早定義\n351684\t376394\t那我們來看一下這個北斗系統北斗是雙向指管他現在已經所有他的解放軍的車輛單兵甚至到排級都可以手機接受但是我們還沒到這個位未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的一個使用工具但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道他先向國際衛星聯盟登記了未來短期內10年內要160個軌道平面1萬顆衛星\n381172\t401545\t那麼在俄烏戰爭中間,美方啊,這個Starlink協助它是46000個點那每一個點就是一個接收站,但周圍的人手機就要靠過去,一個月要800萬美金所以我們這個要有它的好處,就要有備援的鈔票,這個要規劃進去,這個圖請做參考\n406483\t424865\t中國大陸這個火箭軍的他也考慮到他可能被北斗會被干擾掉或者地面控制站破壞於是他利用八重八橫的光纖再配合無人機的中繼那這個就是將來我們可以做參考local不管用伏身器用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項\n428271\t454893\t那反響定就是對方這個是去年8月4號的投擔軌跡再加上他的很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施可能到時候功能可能就不完整甚至部分功能就沒有了那這個時候在我們的運用規劃就剛剛你講的權責下售、任務了解、授權、責任承擔這個都是在ROE裡面會defend清楚了但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握\n458102\t476795\t這張圖昨天展示過了就是要模擬彈道那希望在解釋的時候對國人、貴國軍的有個瞭解這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習就是這個2024利劍2024A的利劍總長請看這上面這個是台灣的防空識別區的圖這邊有四個在海峽中線以東空軍有四個訓練空域\n486820\t504090\t但是我們國防部做了簡報的這個圖就是講我們把中共拒止在24里外並不是用他的圖可是這個圖上面只有三個訓練空隱我跟你講這張圖是舊圖GNC的這個老版本我建議圖不只是電子化\n504870\t532528\t要更新版本有些是要從國外買過來有些是請我們自己的圖那這個就是套上去在這個同一個時間我們要顯示到就是說不只是中共演習或者我們漢光王演習在周遭下面圖看海上的動態看民航機的動態這個要全天限制你看他的商船民航機有沒有受到影響做你一個判斷的客觀參考像這個是民航圖\n533905\t551179\t中縣以東市4個訓練空域,套上這是今天早上中共干擾的,就是說共同圖像,雖然是數畫的圖,但是要經過GIS校正,重複套疊,對長官來講可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。\n552470\t565116\t這次5月18號從水面通過我特別講要把金馬外島附近的水下的深度圖要做校正因為在大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機\n566590\t581247\t所以他的船必然要避開扶航就是潛艦那事實上臺灣的西海岸未來8年以內會有1000個離岸風機這個離岸風機是對兩溪登陸是最大的障礙這個可以做參考也要標註出來\n584946\t610655\t所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在即便是少數的紅色它的規模也只能容納迎擊的登陸所以你在演練假設這個情境發生部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做這個都是反想定這個每一個想定都很重要不是會不會發生而是想定跟想定中間的時間的關聯性要把它做出來像這個圖是一個示意台灣北部\n613073\t641288\t這裏是所有的海堤工程建設工程根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了所以左邊的這個是外航的想定這是外面的報告要把這些圖套上衛星圖套上我們現在作案圖那你的作戰想定就比較合理化那甚至在對面這個導彈的攻擊模擬那最後就是說我們把一個整個的想定過程排解出來\n642689\t671134\t紅軍有紅軍的做法藍軍難做雖然紅軍沒有實兵但是你演練的科目並不代表每個科目多要但是互動關係找出來在這個同時要了解社會的堅韌性就是當時是不是已經比方講從D隊到D加3完全民間是斷水斷電國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電而只有國軍演練這個就脫鉤了以上提供總長做參考\n672294\t698472\t總長有沒有什麼回應?委員我們今年其實就是朝向的就是不管您剛才提到的這些的想定然後第二個聯動性還有所謂的這些的連續其實我們會有這些的改變其實就是讓國軍能夠突破能夠進步更結合實戰那您剛才所提供的這些資訊我們都會很好的去做一個分析納入我們非常重要的一個資訊的參考謝謝您提供的這些資訊\n700458\t715703\t最後再問三十兩下,這個CUSE現在國民都在用,但是我建議一定要用英文,不要把它翻成中國語,即便是在演習期間,我們在台海遇到群議,也可能碰到友好國家和軍隊的通過,\n718237\t737645\t在任內一方征服同意、共同負面,而且是非機密的。那麼他是根據1972年南韓共同當選,以及Conclause1982年,就是聯合國海洋法公約的第29條,這些東西我希望我們鑒定官方的負責。是,了解,是,是,謝偉。\n","txt":"主席好因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經邀請這個院長跟部長已經質詢過那麼今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將請梅總長\n總統好過去我們同事多年互動學習累積經驗個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責所以我今天的不是質詢理論上我做出是建言不涉及到你的指揮管制\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇\n這張圖其實在您剛才的回答前任委員前面講的很多觀念你已經講進去了這邊僅供參考\n下面我們在這邊問政對國軍作建言的時候我們通常是目的方法、手段、誓言做法、建議那麼我們這邊提供一個建議要培育國軍熟人戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員藉由常態化戰場的訓練官兵將交戰或是接戰準則深植人心我這邊在這邊向各位報告這個是2019年\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王�\n那這一次您提到的要去中心化我們在反想定裡面都有授權就是剛剛您講的基層我們設定了目標方法手段以及建議現在建議裡面事項就產生就是當我們在做作戰區的時候有一個想定的前提第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼台通通失效\n要靠國軍的微波載台以及目前我們的衛星但是中興二號快到期中興五號的功能還有待要展示、驗證那低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約我強烈建議\n要跟這個所謂速發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬這個要及早定義而不是等事件發生了再做討論所以我們目的是要強化戰場的指揮作業能力那這種條件下就是光纖是不是仍然有效國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王�\n無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家看到烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機而且大部分用大漿可是因為幅員廣大這個鄉鎮之間距離30公里城鎮之間100公里所以在這個連接的道路上不是烏軍就是俄軍看到就打誤擊的機率很低\n但是到了以哈戰爭中間無人機的使用就比較低了那麼以色列用無人機完全是結合AI而不是單兵用眼睛個人去看識別所以未來的無人機對AI的導入可是AI導入以後又涉及到的武裝衝突法戰務令這裡面就涉及到指揮官\n我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官第五屆的司令開會提出他們特別強調在這個人吶在這個鏈路中間in the loop on the loop還有完全授權out of loop這個要及早定義\n那我們來看一下這個北斗系統北斗是雙向指管他現在已經所有他的解放軍的車輛單兵甚至到排級都可以手機接受但是我們還沒到這個位未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的一個使用工具但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道他先向國際衛星聯盟登記了未來短期內10年內要160個軌道平面1萬顆衛星\n那麼在俄烏戰爭中間,美方啊,這個Starlink協助它是46000個點那每一個點就是一個接收站,但周圍的人手機就要靠過去,一個月要800萬美金所以我們這個要有它的好處,就要有備援的鈔票,這個要規劃進去,這個圖請做參考\n中國大陸這個火箭軍的他也考慮到他可能被北斗會被干擾掉或者地面控制站破壞於是他利用八重八橫的光纖再配合無人機的中繼那這個就是將來我們可以做參考local不管用伏身器用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項\n那反響定就是對方這個是去年8月4號的投擔軌跡再加上他的很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施可能到時候功能可能就不完整甚至部分功能就沒有了那這個時候在我們的運用規劃就剛剛你講的權責下售、任務了解、授權、責任承擔這個都是在ROE裡面會defend清楚了但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握\n這張圖昨天展示過了就是要模擬彈道那希望在解釋的時候對國人、貴國軍的有個瞭解這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習就是這個2024利劍2024A的利劍總長請看這上面這個是台灣的防空識別區的圖這邊有四個在海峽中線以東空軍有四個訓練空域\n但是我們國防部做了簡報的這個圖就是講我們把中共拒止在24里外並不是用他的圖可是這個圖上面只有三個訓練空隱我跟你講這張圖是舊圖GNC的這個老版本我建議圖不只是電子化\n要更新版本有些是要從國外買過來有些是請我們自己的圖那這個就是套上去在這個同一個時間我們要顯示到就是說不只是中共演習或者我們漢光王演習在周遭下面圖看海上的動態看民航機的動態這個要全天限制你看他的商船民航機有沒有受到影響做你一個判斷的客觀參考像這個是民航圖\n中縣以東市4個訓練空域,套上這是今天早上中共干擾的,就是說共同圖像,雖然是數畫的圖,但是要經過GIS校正,重複套疊,對長官來講可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。\n這次5月18號從水面通過我特別講要把金馬外島附近的水下的深度圖要做校正因為在大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機\n所以他的船必然要避開扶航就是潛艦那事實上臺灣的西海岸未來8年以內會有1000個離岸風機這個離岸風機是對兩溪登陸是最大的障礙這個可以做參考也要標註出來\n所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在即便是少數的紅色它的規模也只能容納迎擊的登陸所以你在演練假設這個情境發生部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做這個都是反想定這個每一個想定都很重要不是會不會發生而是想定跟想定中間的時間的關聯性要把它做出來像這個圖是一個示意台灣北部\n這裏是所有的海堤工程建設工程根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了所以左邊的這個是外航的想定這是外面的報告要把這些圖套上衛星圖套上我們現在作案圖那你的作戰想定就比較合理化那甚至在對面這個導彈的攻擊模擬那最後就是說我們把一個整個的想定過程排解出來\n紅軍有紅軍的做法藍軍難做雖然紅軍沒有實兵但是你演練的科目並不代表每個科目多要但是互動關係找出來在這個同時要了解社會的堅韌性就是當時是不是已經比方講從D隊到D加3完全民間是斷水斷電國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電而只有國軍演練這個就脫鉤了以上提供總長做參考\n總長有沒有什麼回應?委員我們今年其實就是朝向的就是不管您剛才提到的這些的想定然後第二個聯動性還有所謂的這些的連續其實我們會有這些的改變其實就是讓國軍能夠突破能夠進步更結合實戰那您剛才所提供的這些資訊我們都會很好的去做一個分析納入我們非常重要的一個資訊的參考謝謝您提供的這些資訊\n最後再問三十兩下,這個CUSE現在國民都在用,但是我建議一定要用英文,不要把它翻成中國語,即便是在演習期間,我們在台海遇到群議,也可能碰到友好國家和軍隊的通過,\n在任內一方征服同意、共同負面,而且是非機密的。那麼他是根據1972年南韓共同當選,以及Conclause1982年,就是聯合國海洋法公約的第29條,這些東西我希望我們鑒定官方的負責。是,了解,是,是,謝偉。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.245 --> 00:20.300\n主席好因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經邀請這個院長跟部長已經質詢過那麼今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將請梅總長\n\n00:30.442 --> 00:54.898\n總統好過去我們同事多年互動學習累積經驗個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責所以我今天的不是質詢理論上我做出是建言不涉及到你的指揮管制\n\n00:55.913 --> 00:56.814\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n01:17.386 --> 01:29.098\n三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n\n01:30.677 --> 01:47.128\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇\n\n01:54.114 --> 02:01.568\n這張圖其實在您剛才的回答前任委員前面講的很多觀念你已經講進去了這邊僅供參考\n\n02:04.728 --> 02:30.188\n下面我們在這邊問政對國軍作建言的時候我們通常是目的方法、手段、誓言做法、建議那麼我們這邊提供一個建議要培育國軍熟人戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員藉由常態化戰場的訓練官兵將交戰或是接戰準則深植人心我這邊在這邊向各位報告這個是2019年\n\n02:32.790 --> 02:43.734\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王�\n\n02:56.598 --> 03:18.477\n那這一次您提到的要去中心化我們在反想定裡面都有授權就是剛剛您講的基層我們設定了目標方法手段以及建議現在建議裡面事項就產生就是當我們在做作戰區的時候有一個想定的前提第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼台通通失效\n\n03:19.218 --> 03:34.710\n要靠國軍的微波載台以及目前我們的衛星但是中興二號快到期中興五號的功能還有待要展示、驗證那低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約我強烈建議\n\n03:35.410 --> 03:55.121\n要跟這個所謂速發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬這個要及早定義而不是等事件發生了再做討論所以我們目的是要強化戰場的指揮作業能力那這種條件下就是光纖是不是仍然有效國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足\n\n03:58.143 --> 04:13.215\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n\n04:26.704 --> 04:46.193\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王�\n\n04:54.538 --> 05:14.186\n無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家看到烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機而且大部分用大漿可是因為幅員廣大這個鄉鎮之間距離30公里城鎮之間100公里所以在這個連接的道路上不是烏軍就是俄軍看到就打誤擊的機率很低\n\n05:15.103 --> 05:36.051\n但是到了以哈戰爭中間無人機的使用就比較低了那麼以色列用無人機完全是結合AI而不是單兵用眼睛個人去看識別所以未來的無人機對AI的導入可是AI導入以後又涉及到的武裝衝突法戰務令這裡面就涉及到指揮官\n\n05:37.291 --> 05:49.520\n我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官第五屆的司令開會提出他們特別強調在這個人吶在這個鏈路中間intheloopontheloop還有完全授權outofloop這個要及早定義\n\n05:51.684 --> 06:16.394\n那我們來看一下這個北斗系統北斗是雙向指管他現在已經所有他的解放軍的車輛單兵甚至到排級都可以手機接受但是我們還沒到這個位未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的一個使用工具但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道他先向國際衛星聯盟登記了未來短期內10年內要160個軌道平面1萬顆衛星\n\n06:21.172 --> 06:41.545\n那麼在俄烏戰爭中間,美方啊,這個Starlink協助它是46000個點那每一個點就是一個接收站,但周圍的人手機就要靠過去,一個月要800萬美金所以我們這個要有它的好處,就要有備援的鈔票,這個要規劃進去,這個圖請做參考\n\n06:46.483 --> 07:04.865\n中國大陸這個火箭軍的他也考慮到他可能被北斗會被干擾掉或者地面控制站破壞於是他利用八重八橫的光纖再配合無人機的中繼那這個就是將來我們可以做參考local不管用伏身器用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項\n\n07:08.271 --> 07:34.893\n那反響定就是對方這個是去年8月4號的投擔軌跡再加上他的很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施可能到時候功能可能就不完整甚至部分功能就沒有了那這個時候在我們的運用規劃就剛剛你講的權責下售、任務了解、授權、責任承擔這個都是在ROE裡面會defend清楚了但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握\n\n07:38.102 --> 07:56.795\n這張圖昨天展示過了就是要模擬彈道那希望在解釋的時候對國人、貴國軍的有個瞭解這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習就是這個2024利劍2024A的利劍總長請看這上面這個是台灣的防空識別區的圖這邊有四個在海峽中線以東空軍有四個訓練空域\n\n08:06.820 --> 08:24.090\n但是我們國防部做了簡報的這個圖就是講我們把中共拒止在24里外並不是用他的圖可是這個圖上面只有三個訓練空隱我跟你講這張圖是舊圖GNC的這個老版本我建議圖不只是電子化\n\n08:24.870 --> 08:52.528\n要更新版本有些是要從國外買過來有些是請我們自己的圖那這個就是套上去在這個同一個時間我們要顯示到就是說不只是中共演習或者我們漢光王演習在周遭下面圖看海上的動態看民航機的動態這個要全天限制你看他的商船民航機有沒有受到影響做你一個判斷的客觀參考像這個是民航圖\n\n08:53.905 --> 09:11.179\n中縣以東市4個訓練空域,套上這是今天早上中共干擾的,就是說共同圖像,雖然是數畫的圖,但是要經過GIS校正,重複套疊,對長官來講可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。\n\n09:12.470 --> 09:25.116\n這次5月18號從水面通過我特別講要把金馬外島附近的水下的深度圖要做校正因為在大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機\n\n09:26.590 --> 09:41.247\n所以他的船必然要避開扶航就是潛艦那事實上臺灣的西海岸未來8年以內會有1000個離岸風機這個離岸風機是對兩溪登陸是最大的障礙這個可以做參考也要標註出來\n\n09:44.946 --> 10:10.655\n所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在即便是少數的紅色它的規模也只能容納迎擊的登陸所以你在演練假設這個情境發生部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做這個都是反想定這個每一個想定都很重要不是會不會發生而是想定跟想定中間的時間的關聯性要把它做出來像這個圖是一個示意台灣北部\n\n10:13.073 --> 10:41.288\n這裏是所有的海堤工程建設工程根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了所以左邊的這個是外航的想定這是外面的報告要把這些圖套上衛星圖套上我們現在作案圖那你的作戰想定就比較合理化那甚至在對面這個導彈的攻擊模擬那最後就是說我們把一個整個的想定過程排解出來\n\n10:42.689 --> 11:11.134\n紅軍有紅軍的做法藍軍難做雖然紅軍沒有實兵但是你演練的科目並不代表每個科目多要但是互動關係找出來在這個同時要了解社會的堅韌性就是當時是不是已經比方講從D隊到D加3完全民間是斷水斷電國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電而只有國軍演練這個就脫鉤了以上提供總長做參考\n\n11:12.294 --> 11:38.472\n總長有沒有什麼回應?委員我們今年其實就是朝向的就是不管您剛才提到的這些的想定然後第二個聯動性還有所謂的這些的連續其實我們會有這些的改變其實就是讓國軍能夠突破能夠進步更結合實戰那您剛才所提供的這些資訊我們都會很好的去做一個分析納入我們非常重要的一個資訊的參考謝謝您提供的這些資訊\n\n11:40.458 --> 11:55.703\n最後再問三十兩下,這個CUSE現在國民都在用,但是我建議一定要用英文,不要把它翻成中國語,即便是在演習期間,我們在台海遇到群議,也可能碰到友好國家和軍隊的通過,\n\n11:58.237 --> 12:17.645\n在任內一方征服同意、共同負面,而且是非機密的。那麼他是根據1972年南韓共同當選,以及Conclause1982年,就是聯合國海洋法公約的第29條,這些東西我希望我們鑒定官方的負責。是,了解,是,是,謝偉。\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.245,"end":20.3,"text":"主席好因為昨天下午在大院質詢的時候已經邀請這個院長跟部長已經質詢過那麼今天很多的細節是提供參謀本部做一個參考所以我這邊請參謀總長梅上將請梅總長"},{"start":30.442,"end":54.898,"text":"總統好過去我們同事多年互動學習累積經驗個人一直很珍惜那段過去留下來的記憶今天看您承受這麼大的擔當跟責任在這邊以總長在軍事的指揮權責所以我今天的不是質詢理論上我做出是建言不涉及到你的指揮管制"},{"start":55.913,"end":56.814,"text":"二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":77.386,"end":89.098,"text":"三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委"},{"start":90.677,"end":107.128,"text":"委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇"},{"start":114.114,"end":121.568,"text":"這張圖其實在您剛才的回答前任委員前面講的很多觀念你已經講進去了這邊僅供參考"},{"start":124.728,"end":150.188,"text":"下面我們在這邊問政對國軍作建言的時候我們通常是目的方法、手段、誓言做法、建議那麼我們這邊提供一個建議要培育國軍熟人戰爭法、武裝衝突法跟國際人道等法務人員藉由常態化戰場的訓練官兵將交戰或是接戰準則深植人心我這邊在這邊向各位報告這個是2019年"},{"start":152.79,"end":163.734,"text":"二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王鴻薇等22人、委員王�"},{"start":176.598,"end":198.477,"text":"那這一次您提到的要去中心化我們在反想定裡面都有授權就是剛剛您講的基層我們設定了目標方法手段以及建議現在建議裡面事項就產生就是當我們在做作戰區的時候有一個想定的前提第一個就是所有中華電信的中繼台通通失效"},{"start":199.218,"end":214.71,"text":"要靠國軍的微波載台以及目前我們的衛星但是中興二號快到期中興五號的功能還有待要展示、驗證那低軌衛星尤其是跟OneWeb簽的合約我強烈建議"},{"start":215.41,"end":235.121,"text":"要跟這個所謂速發部跟NCC強調國軍需要的通訊頻段頻寬這個要及早定義而不是等事件發生了再做討論所以我們目的是要強化戰場的指揮作業能力那這種條件下就是光纖是不是仍然有效國軍的機動通訊車數量足不足"},{"start":238.143,"end":253.215,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、"},{"start":266.704,"end":286.193,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員王�"},{"start":294.538,"end":314.186,"text":"無人機在俄烏戰爭中大家看到烏克蘭跟俄國相互用無人機而且大部分用大漿可是因為幅員廣大這個鄉鎮之間距離30公里城鎮之間100公里所以在這個連接的道路上不是烏軍就是俄軍看到就打誤擊的機率很低"},{"start":315.103,"end":336.051,"text":"但是到了以哈戰爭中間無人機的使用就比較低了那麼以色列用無人機完全是結合AI而不是單兵用眼睛個人去看識別所以未來的無人機對AI的導入可是AI導入以後又涉及到的武裝衝突法戰務令這裡面就涉及到指揮官"},{"start":337.291,"end":349.52,"text":"我曾經跟中東的美軍指揮官第五屆的司令開會提出他們特別強調在這個人吶在這個鏈路中間in the loop on the loop還有完全授權out of loop這個要及早定義"},{"start":351.684,"end":376.394,"text":"那我們來看一下這個北斗系統北斗是雙向指管他現在已經所有他的解放軍的車輛單兵甚至到排級都可以手機接受但是我們還沒到這個位未來的低軌衛星可能是一個重要的一個使用工具但是中國大陸現在已經在搶軌道他先向國際衛星聯盟登記了未來短期內10年內要160個軌道平面1萬顆衛星"},{"start":381.172,"end":401.545,"text":"那麼在俄烏戰爭中間,美方啊,這個Starlink協助它是46000個點那每一個點就是一個接收站,但周圍的人手機就要靠過去,一個月要800萬美金所以我們這個要有它的好處,就要有備援的鈔票,這個要規劃進去,這個圖請做參考"},{"start":406.483,"end":424.865,"text":"中國大陸這個火箭軍的他也考慮到他可能被北斗會被干擾掉或者地面控制站破壞於是他利用八重八橫的光纖再配合無人機的中繼那這個就是將來我們可以做參考local不管用伏身器用無人機做中繼通訊是一個選項"},{"start":428.271,"end":454.893,"text":"那反響定就是對方這個是去年8月4號的投擔軌跡再加上他的很可能我們地面通訊基礎設施可能到時候功能可能就不完整甚至部分功能就沒有了那這個時候在我們的運用規劃就剛剛你講的權責下售、任務了解、授權、責任承擔這個都是在ROE裡面會defend清楚了但是我們還是需要由中央指揮的一個備援模式要能夠掌握"},{"start":458.102,"end":476.795,"text":"這張圖昨天展示過了就是要模擬彈道那希望在解釋的時候對國人、貴國軍的有個瞭解這張圖我特別來解釋利劍演習就是這個2024利劍2024A的利劍總長請看這上面這個是台灣的防空識別區的圖這邊有四個在海峽中線以東空軍有四個訓練空域"},{"start":486.82,"end":504.09,"text":"但是我們國防部做了簡報的這個圖就是講我們把中共拒止在24里外並不是用他的圖可是這個圖上面只有三個訓練空隱我跟你講這張圖是舊圖GNC的這個老版本我建議圖不只是電子化"},{"start":504.87,"end":532.528,"text":"要更新版本有些是要從國外買過來有些是請我們自己的圖那這個就是套上去在這個同一個時間我們要顯示到就是說不只是中共演習或者我們漢光王演習在周遭下面圖看海上的動態看民航機的動態這個要全天限制你看他的商船民航機有沒有受到影響做你一個判斷的客觀參考像這個是民航圖"},{"start":533.905,"end":551.179,"text":"中縣以東市4個訓練空域,套上這是今天早上中共干擾的,就是說共同圖像,雖然是數畫的圖,但是要經過GIS校正,重複套疊,對長官來講可以有一個更客觀的判斷方法。"},{"start":552.47,"end":565.116,"text":"這次5月18號從水面通過我特別講要把金馬外島附近的水下的深度圖要做校正因為在大陸沿岸現在都是離岸風機"},{"start":566.59,"end":581.247,"text":"所以他的船必然要避開扶航就是潛艦那事實上臺灣的西海岸未來8年以內會有1000個離岸風機這個離岸風機是對兩溪登陸是最大的障礙這個可以做參考也要標註出來"},{"start":584.946,"end":610.655,"text":"所以這個海灘過去的紅色現在都不存在即便是少數的紅色它的規模也只能容納迎擊的登陸所以你在演練假設這個情境發生部隊上來城鎮作戰如何做這個都是反想定這個每一個想定都很重要不是會不會發生而是想定跟想定中間的時間的關聯性要把它做出來像這個圖是一個示意台灣北部"},{"start":613.073,"end":641.288,"text":"這裏是所有的海堤工程建設工程根本已經沒有一個大規模的登機了所以左邊的這個是外航的想定這是外面的報告要把這些圖套上衛星圖套上我們現在作案圖那你的作戰想定就比較合理化那甚至在對面這個導彈的攻擊模擬那最後就是說我們把一個整個的想定過程排解出來"},{"start":642.689,"end":671.134,"text":"紅軍有紅軍的做法藍軍難做雖然紅軍沒有實兵但是你演練的科目並不代表每個科目多要但是互動關係找出來在這個同時要了解社會的堅韌性就是當時是不是已經比方講從D隊到D加3完全民間是斷水斷電國軍在想定過程中間要結合社會堅韌性如果社會堅韌性斷水斷電而只有國軍演練這個就脫鉤了以上提供總長做參考"},{"start":672.294,"end":698.472,"text":"總長有沒有什麼回應?委員我們今年其實就是朝向的就是不管您剛才提到的這些的想定然後第二個聯動性還有所謂的這些的連續其實我們會有這些的改變其實就是讓國軍能夠突破能夠進步更結合實戰那您剛才所提供的這些資訊我們都會很好的去做一個分析納入我們非常重要的一個資訊的參考謝謝您提供的這些資訊"},{"start":700.458,"end":715.703,"text":"最後再問三十兩下,這個CUSE現在國民都在用,但是我建議一定要用英文,不要把它翻成中國語,即便是在演習期間,我們在台海遇到群議,也可能碰到友好國家和軍隊的通過,"},{"start":718.237,"end":737.645,"text":"在任內一方征服同意、共同負面,而且是非機密的。那麼他是根據1972年南韓共同當選,以及Conclause1982年,就是聯合國海洋法公約的第29條,這些東西我希望我們鑒定官方的負責。是,了解,是,是,謝偉。"}]}}}}