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10:14:05","影片長度":"00:09:09","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條、第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員賴士葆等21人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員羅智強等24人分別擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:04:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:14:05+08:00","duration":549,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":196,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（10時4分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。在2017年的時候，立法院因為使用中國製的太陽能逆變器，它叫做inverter，基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分，裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitor unit，也就是遠端可以看發電的數量。這件事情後來被披露了以後，我們執政黨的蔡易餘立委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會，說禁用中國的逆變器，要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機，到目前為止，國防部是不是有一個清楚的政策立場，在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者逆變器禁用中國製的產品？"],["顧部長立雄：我們本部在契約書裡面有特別增訂不得使用陸製品的一個條文。"],["黃委員國昌：這是統一的，在每一份契約裡面都有這樣的規定嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，因為我接到檢舉，我們國家注資30億，我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東，號稱綠能國家隊的聯合再生，他們承接國防部非常多光電招租的案子，也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電，基本上推動再生能源，我們都支持，但是在我們軍事要塞裡面做太陽光電模組的這件事情是不是會用到中國製產品、有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要，因為這個事不是今天才發生。我接到的檢舉是說，在陸軍蘭陽地區指揮部的光電標租案裡面，得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司，叫做永梁公司，這家公司當初在競標的時候承諾要使用國內領導品牌的變流器，結果沒想到跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套，實際做的是另外一套，實際做的是哪一套？","如同剛剛部長所說的，在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用大陸地區的產品，但我接到的檢舉是在蘭陽地區指揮部裡面，所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品，因為這個檢舉很嚴重，所以我昨天特別跑去蘭陽指揮部現勘，也非常感謝我們蘭陽指揮部的弟兄，很辛苦！昨天太陽很大，陪我在那邊看，結果我看到的、部長您現在看到的就是所謂的逆變器，旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫made in China、大剌剌的就寫made in China，這讓我們非常困惑、非常狐疑。當初這個東西在裝的時候，契約書已經載明不可以做這件事情，他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定，甚至是契約上面的要求，做了這件事情，而且毫不避諱的就在產品上面的貼紙寫著made in 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in China，我的困惑在於人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩，就是made in China，我們驗收怎麼會通過？但請部長不要誤會我的意思，我沒有意思要去追究蘭陽指揮部弟兄們的責任，因為我知道他們很辛苦，這些光電產品未必也是他們所熟悉的，但是，是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環？譬如說，要求廠商出具原產地證明，沒有出具這個東西的話，驗收不會通過，因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話，應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況，是不是可以請一併檢討驗收程序，未來不要讓這個不肖廠商有上下其手的空間？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會一併來檢討委員所指教的這樣子的……就是說有這樣的要求，我們會來一併納入檢討。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-29","speakers":["馬文君","賴士葆","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","黃國昌","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","林憶君","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","吳沛憶","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢；二、審查\n本院委員馬文君等 21 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,750 --> 00:00:01,912\n謝謝主席,馬上有請部長。請部長。是,黃雲齁。\n\n2\n00:00:12,297 --> 00:00:33,063\n部長,在2017年的時候,立法院因為使用了中國製的太陽能力變氣,它叫做Inverter,基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分。那裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitorunit,也就是遠端,可以看它發電的數量。\n\n3\n00:00:35,124 --> 00:00:54,364\n這件事情後來被披露了以後後來被披露了以後我們執政黨的立委參與議委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會說禁用中國的逆變器要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機\n\n4\n00:00:56,305 --> 00:01:18,706\n當目前為止,國防部是不是有個清楚的政策立場在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者是逆變器禁用中國製的產品?我們本部在區議員署裡面特別有鎮定不得使用陸製品的一個條文這個是統一的,在每一份企業裡面都有這樣的規定嗎?是\n\n5\n00:01:21,550 --> 00:01:46,044\n因為我接到檢舉我們國家注資30億我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東號稱綠能國家隊的聯合戰神他們承接了國防部非常多光電招租的案子也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電那基本上\n\n6\n00:01:47,421 --> 00:02:04,930\n推動再生能源我們都支持但是在我們的軍事要塞裡面去做太陽光電的模組這件事情事實是會用到中國製的產品有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要因為這個事不是今天才發生\n\n7\n00:02:06,294 --> 00:02:30,370\n但我接到的檢舉是說我們在陸軍南洋地區的指揮部光電的標出案裡面得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司叫做永良公司那這家公司呢當初在競標的時候說他要承諾使用國內領導品牌的變流器結果沒想到\n\n8\n00:02:31,741 --> 00:02:39,300\n去跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套實際做的是另外一套實際做的是哪一套\n\n9\n00:02:41,496 --> 00:03:06,113\n如同剛剛部長所說的在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用暴露地區的產品但我接到的檢舉是在南洋地區的指揮部裡面所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品那因為這個檢舉很嚴重所以我昨天特別跑去南洋指揮部那邊去現看\n\n10\n00:03:07,154 --> 00:03:33,036\n來非常感謝我們南洋指揮部的弟兄很辛苦昨天太陽很大陪我在那邊看結果看到的現在部長啊您看到的就是所謂的逆變器旁邊貼的貼紙旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫的MadeinChina大剌剌的就寫的MadeinChina這個讓我們非常的困惑非常的狐疑是\n\n11\n00:03:34,017 --> 00:03:49,309\n當初這個東西在裝的時候契約書已經載明了不可以做這件事情他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定甚至是契約上面的要求做了這件事情而且毫不避諱的\n\n12\n00:03:50,310 --> 00:04:08,193\n就在產品上面的貼紙就寫了MadeinChina這件事情我昨天去南洋指揮部玩了以後我有跟現場主持會議的指揮官說麻煩這件事情請他昨天回去的時候要跟部裡邊報告部長有沒有收到這樣的訊息\n\n13\n00:04:09,481 --> 00:04:35,932\n跟委員報告有,我們有,就我現在得到的訊息就是說,這一個逆變企業或者變流企業,它是德國一個叫SMA的公司品牌,但是是在大陸組裝的。那麼現在確認它有,我約使用的這一個大概是44個。那我們會一約要求陳上要在一個月內將這些錄製品拆除,更換符合這個契約的這個規範的一個產品。\n\n14\n00:04:38,833 --> 00:04:46,298\n這就是我今天把這件事情在質詢的時候請部長注意因為對於後續的處理這件事情\n\n15\n00:04:47,549 --> 00:05:08,488\n這家廠商是惡劣至極啊明明就知道不可以這樣做他還是決定這樣做但我們如果今天國防部在主張權力的時候只是把這個置義萬為胡作非為的廠商只是叫他更換完部長你覺得對這個廠商會有任何嚇阻的效力嗎\n\n16\n00:05:10,910 --> 00:05:30,591\n我們會按照那個合約條款的這個內容那我到現在為止沒有清楚的看到合約條款的內容那我們一方面就他這個要改進那我們也會清查有沒有類案的這個情形有類似案件的這些情形我們都會來全面的清查\n\n17\n00:05:31,581 --> 00:05:54,590\n因為部長是非常優秀的法律人特別拜託部長回去看我們國防部的契約因為如果在我們國防部的契約裡面對於這一種無視國防部的政策無視契約條款根本置義萬為的廠商我們如果定的契約法律效果只是被抓到了以後\n\n18\n00:05:55,710 --> 00:06:19,119\n換回來就好了我必須要說不會有任何嚇阻的效果以後他就繼續這樣幹因為如同剛剛部長所點出來的如同剛剛部長所點出來的這家廠商他是不是被欺騙所以才去用中國的逆變器不是他從頭到尾就知道他用的是中國的逆變器而且用的範圍\n\n19\n00:06:20,646 --> 00:06:38,527\n我再跟部長報告一下用的範圍恐怕不是只有南洋指揮部因為到目前為止我所收集到的資訊包括了我們在高雄的海軍艦隊指揮部包括了國防大學包括了三軍總醫院松山分區\n\n20\n00:06:39,828 --> 00:07:08,399\n這家廠商非常厲害國防部非常多的隱屈全部都有他們的案子他們可以這樣置義妄為無視規定如果我們最後國防部所謂的依照契約辦理只是要求他換過來的話恐怕是沒有辦法真正的二組未來有類似不肖的廠商一樣化葫蘆反正我就先用被抓到了以後再換回來就好了\n\n21\n00:07:09,139 --> 00:07:21,731\n部長是不是可以承諾嚴肅的檢討目前契約的規範是不是只能夠要求他換還是應該要採取更嚴厲追溯法律責任的行動\n\n22\n00:07:22,999 --> 00:07:46,417\n我們會來檢視相關合約的這個整個內容有沒有類似有一些相關的這個就是說我們要和約定的相關的內容來處理那另外我們也會全面清查國軍所有的這些太陽光電的這個設置營區是不是有使用錄製品的設備部長最後一點提醒就好了因為這個東西是驗收通過的\n\n23\n00:07:47,418 --> 00:08:14,471\n今年二月驗收通過的我昨天在現場的時候其實我很困惑因為我一看到那個機繩旁邊的貼紙就寫MadeinChina我的困惑在於說人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩就是MadeinChina我們驗收怎麼會通過但請部長不要誤會我的意思我沒有意思要去追究我們蘭陽指揮部弟兄他們的責任因為我知道\n\n24\n00:08:15,455 --> 00:08:30,752\n他們很辛苦光電這些產品未必也是他們所熟悉的但是是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環譬如說要求那個廠商出具原產地的證明\n\n25\n00:08:31,974 --> 00:08:58,735\n沒有出具這個東西的話驗收不會通過因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況是不是可以請驗收的程序一併檢討未來不要讓這個不肖的廠商有上下棘手的空間我們會一併來檢討這個委員所指教的這樣子的一個就是說有這樣的要求我們會來一併納入檢討\n\n26\n00:09:00,265 --> 00:09:02,609\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n750\t1912\t謝謝主席,馬上有請部長。請部長。是,黃雲齁。\n12297\t33063\t部長,在2017年的時候,立法院因為使用了中國製的太陽能力變氣,它叫做Inverter,基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分。那裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitor unit,也就是遠端,可以看它發電的數量。\n35124\t54364\t這件事情後來被披露了以後後來被披露了以後我們執政黨的立委參與議委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會說禁用中國的逆變器要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機\n56305\t78706\t當目前為止,國防部是不是有個清楚的政策立場在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者是逆變器禁用中國製的產品?我們本部在區議員署裡面特別有鎮定不得使用陸製品的一個條文這個是統一的,在每一份企業裡面都有這樣的規定嗎?是\n81550\t106044\t因為我接到檢舉我們國家注資30億我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東號稱綠能國家隊的聯合戰神他們承接了國防部非常多光電招租的案子也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電那基本上\n107421\t124930\t推動再生能源我們都支持但是在我們的軍事要塞裡面去做太陽光電的模組這件事情事實是會用到中國製的產品有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要因為這個事不是今天才發生\n126294\t150370\t但我接到的檢舉是說我們在陸軍南洋地區的指揮部光電的標出案裡面得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司叫做永良公司那這家公司呢當初在競標的時候說他要承諾使用國內領導品牌的變流器結果沒想到\n151741\t159300\t去跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套實際做的是另外一套實際做的是哪一套\n161496\t186113\t如同剛剛部長所說的在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用暴露地區的產品但我接到的檢舉是在南洋地區的指揮部裡面所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品那因為這個檢舉很嚴重所以我昨天特別跑去南洋指揮部那邊去現看\n187154\t213036\t來非常感謝我們南洋指揮部的弟兄很辛苦昨天太陽很大陪我在那邊看結果看到的現在部長啊您看到的就是所謂的逆變器旁邊貼的貼紙旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫的Made in China大剌剌的就寫的Made in China這個讓我們非常的困惑非常的狐疑是\n214017\t229309\t當初這個東西在裝的時候契約書已經載明了不可以做這件事情他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定甚至是契約上面的要求做了這件事情而且毫不避諱的\n230310\t248193\t就在產品上面的貼紙就寫了Made in China這件事情我昨天去南洋指揮部玩了以後我有跟現場主持會議的指揮官說麻煩這件事情請他昨天回去的時候要跟部裡邊報告部長有沒有收到這樣的訊息\n249481\t275932\t跟委員報告有,我們有,就我現在得到的訊息就是說,這一個逆變企業或者變流企業,它是德國一個叫SMA的公司品牌,但是是在大陸組裝的。那麼現在確認它有,我約使用的這一個大概是44個。那我們會一約要求陳上要在一個月內將這些錄製品拆除,更換符合這個契約的這個規範的一個產品。\n278833\t286298\t這就是我今天把這件事情在質詢的時候請部長注意因為對於後續的處理這件事情\n287549\t308488\t這家廠商是惡劣至極啊明明就知道不可以這樣做他還是決定這樣做但我們如果今天國防部在主張權力的時候只是把這個置義萬為胡作非為的廠商只是叫他更換完部長你覺得對這個廠商會有任何嚇阻的效力嗎\n310910\t330591\t我們會按照那個合約條款的這個內容那我到現在為止沒有清楚的看到合約條款的內容那我們一方面就他這個要改進那我們也會清查有沒有類案的這個情形有類似案件的這些情形我們都會來全面的清查\n331581\t354590\t因為部長是非常優秀的法律人特別拜託部長回去看我們國防部的契約因為如果在我們國防部的契約裡面對於這一種無視國防部的政策無視契約條款根本置義萬為的廠商我們如果定的契約法律效果只是被抓到了以後\n355710\t379119\t換回來就好了我必須要說不會有任何嚇阻的效果以後他就繼續這樣幹因為如同剛剛部長所點出來的如同剛剛部長所點出來的這家廠商他是不是被欺騙所以才去用中國的逆變器不是他從頭到尾就知道他用的是中國的逆變器而且用的範圍\n380646\t398527\t我再跟部長報告一下用的範圍恐怕不是只有南洋指揮部因為到目前為止我所收集到的資訊包括了我們在高雄的海軍艦隊指揮部包括了國防大學包括了三軍總醫院松山分區\n399828\t428399\t這家廠商非常厲害國防部非常多的隱屈全部都有他們的案子他們可以這樣置義妄為無視規定如果我們最後國防部所謂的依照契約辦理只是要求他換過來的話恐怕是沒有辦法真正的二組未來有類似不肖的廠商一樣化葫蘆反正我就先用被抓到了以後再換回來就好了\n429139\t441731\t部長是不是可以承諾嚴肅的檢討目前契約的規範是不是只能夠要求他換還是應該要採取更嚴厲追溯法律責任的行動\n442999\t466417\t我們會來檢視相關合約的這個整個內容有沒有類似有一些相關的這個就是說我們要和約定的相關的內容來處理那另外我們也會全面清查國軍所有的這些太陽光電的這個設置營區是不是有使用錄製品的設備部長最後一點提醒就好了因為這個東西是驗收通過的\n467418\t494471\t今年二月驗收通過的我昨天在現場的時候其實我很困惑因為我一看到那個機繩旁邊的貼紙就寫Made in China我的困惑在於說人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩就是Made in China我們驗收怎麼會通過但請部長不要誤會我的意思我沒有意思要去追究我們蘭陽指揮部弟兄他們的責任因為我知道\n495455\t510752\t他們很辛苦光電這些產品未必也是他們所熟悉的但是是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環譬如說要求那個廠商出具原產地的證明\n511974\t538735\t沒有出具這個東西的話驗收不會通過因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況是不是可以請驗收的程序一併檢討未來不要讓這個不肖的廠商有上下棘手的空間我們會一併來檢討這個委員所指教的這樣子的一個就是說有這樣的要求我們會來一併納入檢討\n540265\t542609\t委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,馬上有請部長。請部長。是,黃雲齁。\n部長,在2017年的時候,立法院因為使用了中國製的太陽能力變氣,它叫做Inverter,基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分。那裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitor unit,也就是遠端,可以看它發電的數量。\n這件事情後來被披露了以後後來被披露了以後我們執政黨的立委參與議委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會說禁用中國的逆變器要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機\n當目前為止,國防部是不是有個清楚的政策立場在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者是逆變器禁用中國製的產品?我們本部在區議員署裡面特別有鎮定不得使用陸製品的一個條文這個是統一的,在每一份企業裡面都有這樣的規定嗎?是\n因為我接到檢舉我們國家注資30億我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東號稱綠能國家隊的聯合戰神他們承接了國防部非常多光電招租的案子也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電那基本上\n推動再生能源我們都支持但是在我們的軍事要塞裡面去做太陽光電的模組這件事情事實是會用到中國製的產品有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要因為這個事不是今天才發生\n但我接到的檢舉是說我們在陸軍南洋地區的指揮部光電的標出案裡面得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司叫做永良公司那這家公司呢當初在競標的時候說他要承諾使用國內領導品牌的變流器結果沒想到\n去跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套實際做的是另外一套實際做的是哪一套\n如同剛剛部長所說的在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用暴露地區的產品但我接到的檢舉是在南洋地區的指揮部裡面所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品那因為這個檢舉很嚴重所以我昨天特別跑去南洋指揮部那邊去現看\n來非常感謝我們南洋指揮部的弟兄很辛苦昨天太陽很大陪我在那邊看結果看到的現在部長啊您看到的就是所謂的逆變器旁邊貼的貼紙旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫的Made in China大剌剌的就寫的Made in China這個讓我們非常的困惑非常的狐疑是\n當初這個東西在裝的時候契約書已經載明了不可以做這件事情他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定甚至是契約上面的要求做了這件事情而且毫不避諱的\n就在產品上面的貼紙就寫了Made in China這件事情我昨天去南洋指揮部玩了以後我有跟現場主持會議的指揮官說麻煩這件事情請他昨天回去的時候要跟部裡邊報告部長有沒有收到這樣的訊息\n跟委員報告有,我們有,就我現在得到的訊息就是說,這一個逆變企業或者變流企業,它是德國一個叫SMA的公司品牌,但是是在大陸組裝的。那麼現在確認它有,我約使用的這一個大概是44個。那我們會一約要求陳上要在一個月內將這些錄製品拆除,更換符合這個契約的這個規範的一個產品。\n這就是我今天把這件事情在質詢的時候請部長注意因為對於後續的處理這件事情\n這家廠商是惡劣至極啊明明就知道不可以這樣做他還是決定這樣做但我們如果今天國防部在主張權力的時候只是把這個置義萬為胡作非為的廠商只是叫他更換完部長你覺得對這個廠商會有任何嚇阻的效力嗎\n我們會按照那個合約條款的這個內容那我到現在為止沒有清楚的看到合約條款的內容那我們一方面就他這個要改進那我們也會清查有沒有類案的這個情形有類似案件的這些情形我們都會來全面的清查\n因為部長是非常優秀的法律人特別拜託部長回去看我們國防部的契約因為如果在我們國防部的契約裡面對於這一種無視國防部的政策無視契約條款根本置義萬為的廠商我們如果定的契約法律效果只是被抓到了以後\n換回來就好了我必須要說不會有任何嚇阻的效果以後他就繼續這樣幹因為如同剛剛部長所點出來的如同剛剛部長所點出來的這家廠商他是不是被欺騙所以才去用中國的逆變器不是他從頭到尾就知道他用的是中國的逆變器而且用的範圍\n我再跟部長報告一下用的範圍恐怕不是只有南洋指揮部因為到目前為止我所收集到的資訊包括了我們在高雄的海軍艦隊指揮部包括了國防大學包括了三軍總醫院松山分區\n這家廠商非常厲害國防部非常多的隱屈全部都有他們的案子他們可以這樣置義妄為無視規定如果我們最後國防部所謂的依照契約辦理只是要求他換過來的話恐怕是沒有辦法真正的二組未來有類似不肖的廠商一樣化葫蘆反正我就先用被抓到了以後再換回來就好了\n部長是不是可以承諾嚴肅的檢討目前契約的規範是不是只能夠要求他換還是應該要採取更嚴厲追溯法律責任的行動\n我們會來檢視相關合約的這個整個內容有沒有類似有一些相關的這個就是說我們要和約定的相關的內容來處理那另外我們也會全面清查國軍所有的這些太陽光電的這個設置營區是不是有使用錄製品的設備部長最後一點提醒就好了因為這個東西是驗收通過的\n今年二月驗收通過的我昨天在現場的時候其實我很困惑因為我一看到那個機繩旁邊的貼紙就寫Made in China我的困惑在於說人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩就是Made in China我們驗收怎麼會通過但請部長不要誤會我的意思我沒有意思要去追究我們蘭陽指揮部弟兄他們的責任因為我知道\n他們很辛苦光電這些產品未必也是他們所熟悉的但是是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環譬如說要求那個廠商出具原產地的證明\n沒有出具這個東西的話驗收不會通過因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況是不是可以請驗收的程序一併檢討未來不要讓這個不肖的廠商有上下棘手的空間我們會一併來檢討這個委員所指教的這樣子的一個就是說有這樣的要求我們會來一併納入檢討\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.750 --> 00:01.912\n謝謝主席,馬上有請部長。請部長。是,黃雲齁。\n\n00:12.297 --> 00:33.063\n部長,在2017年的時候,立法院因為使用了中國製的太陽能力變氣,它叫做Inverter,基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分。那裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitorunit,也就是遠端,可以看它發電的數量。\n\n00:35.124 --> 00:54.364\n這件事情後來被披露了以後後來被披露了以後我們執政黨的立委參與議委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會說禁用中國的逆變器要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機\n\n00:56.305 --> 01:18.706\n當目前為止,國防部是不是有個清楚的政策立場在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者是逆變器禁用中國製的產品?我們本部在區議員署裡面特別有鎮定不得使用陸製品的一個條文這個是統一的,在每一份企業裡面都有這樣的規定嗎?是\n\n01:21.550 --> 01:46.044\n因為我接到檢舉我們國家注資30億我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東號稱綠能國家隊的聯合戰神他們承接了國防部非常多光電招租的案子也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電那基本上\n\n01:47.421 --> 02:04.930\n推動再生能源我們都支持但是在我們的軍事要塞裡面去做太陽光電的模組這件事情事實是會用到中國製的產品有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要因為這個事不是今天才發生\n\n02:06.294 --> 02:30.370\n但我接到的檢舉是說我們在陸軍南洋地區的指揮部光電的標出案裡面得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司叫做永良公司那這家公司呢當初在競標的時候說他要承諾使用國內領導品牌的變流器結果沒想到\n\n02:31.741 --> 02:39.300\n去跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套實際做的是另外一套實際做的是哪一套\n\n02:41.496 --> 03:06.113\n如同剛剛部長所說的在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用暴露地區的產品但我接到的檢舉是在南洋地區的指揮部裡面所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品那因為這個檢舉很嚴重所以我昨天特別跑去南洋指揮部那邊去現看\n\n03:07.154 --> 03:33.036\n來非常感謝我們南洋指揮部的弟兄很辛苦昨天太陽很大陪我在那邊看結果看到的現在部長啊您看到的就是所謂的逆變器旁邊貼的貼紙旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫的MadeinChina大剌剌的就寫的MadeinChina這個讓我們非常的困惑非常的狐疑是\n\n03:34.017 --> 03:49.309\n當初這個東西在裝的時候契約書已經載明了不可以做這件事情他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定甚至是契約上面的要求做了這件事情而且毫不避諱的\n\n03:50.310 --> 04:08.193\n就在產品上面的貼紙就寫了MadeinChina這件事情我昨天去南洋指揮部玩了以後我有跟現場主持會議的指揮官說麻煩這件事情請他昨天回去的時候要跟部裡邊報告部長有沒有收到這樣的訊息\n\n04:09.481 --> 04:35.932\n跟委員報告有,我們有,就我現在得到的訊息就是說,這一個逆變企業或者變流企業,它是德國一個叫SMA的公司品牌,但是是在大陸組裝的。那麼現在確認它有,我約使用的這一個大概是44個。那我們會一約要求陳上要在一個月內將這些錄製品拆除,更換符合這個契約的這個規範的一個產品。\n\n04:38.833 --> 04:46.298\n這就是我今天把這件事情在質詢的時候請部長注意因為對於後續的處理這件事情\n\n04:47.549 --> 05:08.488\n這家廠商是惡劣至極啊明明就知道不可以這樣做他還是決定這樣做但我們如果今天國防部在主張權力的時候只是把這個置義萬為胡作非為的廠商只是叫他更換完部長你覺得對這個廠商會有任何嚇阻的效力嗎\n\n05:10.910 --> 05:30.591\n我們會按照那個合約條款的這個內容那我到現在為止沒有清楚的看到合約條款的內容那我們一方面就他這個要改進那我們也會清查有沒有類案的這個情形有類似案件的這些情形我們都會來全面的清查\n\n05:31.581 --> 05:54.590\n因為部長是非常優秀的法律人特別拜託部長回去看我們國防部的契約因為如果在我們國防部的契約裡面對於這一種無視國防部的政策無視契約條款根本置義萬為的廠商我們如果定的契約法律效果只是被抓到了以後\n\n05:55.710 --> 06:19.119\n換回來就好了我必須要說不會有任何嚇阻的效果以後他就繼續這樣幹因為如同剛剛部長所點出來的如同剛剛部長所點出來的這家廠商他是不是被欺騙所以才去用中國的逆變器不是他從頭到尾就知道他用的是中國的逆變器而且用的範圍\n\n06:20.646 --> 06:38.527\n我再跟部長報告一下用的範圍恐怕不是只有南洋指揮部因為到目前為止我所收集到的資訊包括了我們在高雄的海軍艦隊指揮部包括了國防大學包括了三軍總醫院松山分區\n\n06:39.828 --> 07:08.399\n這家廠商非常厲害國防部非常多的隱屈全部都有他們的案子他們可以這樣置義妄為無視規定如果我們最後國防部所謂的依照契約辦理只是要求他換過來的話恐怕是沒有辦法真正的二組未來有類似不肖的廠商一樣化葫蘆反正我就先用被抓到了以後再換回來就好了\n\n07:09.139 --> 07:21.731\n部長是不是可以承諾嚴肅的檢討目前契約的規範是不是只能夠要求他換還是應該要採取更嚴厲追溯法律責任的行動\n\n07:22.999 --> 07:46.417\n我們會來檢視相關合約的這個整個內容有沒有類似有一些相關的這個就是說我們要和約定的相關的內容來處理那另外我們也會全面清查國軍所有的這些太陽光電的這個設置營區是不是有使用錄製品的設備部長最後一點提醒就好了因為這個東西是驗收通過的\n\n07:47.418 --> 08:14.471\n今年二月驗收通過的我昨天在現場的時候其實我很困惑因為我一看到那個機繩旁邊的貼紙就寫MadeinChina我的困惑在於說人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩就是MadeinChina我們驗收怎麼會通過但請部長不要誤會我的意思我沒有意思要去追究我們蘭陽指揮部弟兄他們的責任因為我知道\n\n08:15.455 --> 08:30.752\n他們很辛苦光電這些產品未必也是他們所熟悉的但是是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環譬如說要求那個廠商出具原產地的證明\n\n08:31.974 --> 08:58.735\n沒有出具這個東西的話驗收不會通過因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況是不是可以請驗收的程序一併檢討未來不要讓這個不肖的廠商有上下棘手的空間我們會一併來檢討這個委員所指教的這樣子的一個就是說有這樣的要求我們會來一併納入檢討\n\n09:00.265 --> 09:02.609\n委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.75,"end":1.912,"text":"謝謝主席,馬上有請部長。請部長。是,黃雲齁。"},{"start":12.297,"end":33.063,"text":"部長,在2017年的時候,立法院因為使用了中國製的太陽能力變氣,它叫做Inverter,基本上是直流電轉換成交流電的一個太陽光電模組當中必備的部分。那裡面幾乎都有內嵌monitor unit,也就是遠端,可以看它發電的數量。"},{"start":35.124,"end":54.364,"text":"這件事情後來被披露了以後後來被披露了以後我們執政黨的立委參與議委跟前立委陳柏惟做了一個非常重要的記者會說禁用中國的逆變器要不然會有嚴重的紅色危機"},{"start":56.305,"end":78.706,"text":"當目前為止,國防部是不是有個清楚的政策立場在國防部重要的軍事要塞所使用的光電或者是逆變器禁用中國製的產品?我們本部在區議員署裡面特別有鎮定不得使用陸製品的一個條文這個是統一的,在每一份企業裡面都有這樣的規定嗎?是"},{"start":81.55,"end":106.044,"text":"因為我接到檢舉我們國家注資30億我們的國發會跟耀華玻璃是第一大股東號稱綠能國家隊的聯合戰神他們承接了國防部非常多光電招租的案子也就是用我們國防部包括很多軍事要塞的土地、屋頂做太陽能光電那基本上"},{"start":107.421,"end":124.93,"text":"推動再生能源我們都支持但是在我們的軍事要塞裡面去做太陽光電的模組這件事情事實是會用到中國製的產品有沒有國安危機這件事情就變得很重要因為這個事不是今天才發生"},{"start":126.294,"end":150.37,"text":"但我接到的檢舉是說我們在陸軍南洋地區的指揮部光電的標出案裡面得標的就是我們綠能國家隊的子公司叫做永良公司那這家公司呢當初在競標的時候說他要承諾使用國內領導品牌的變流器結果沒想到"},{"start":151.741,"end":159.3,"text":"去跟國防部爭取標案的時候說一套實際做的是另外一套實際做的是哪一套"},{"start":161.496,"end":186.113,"text":"如同剛剛部長所說的在租賃契約書裡面已經白紙黑字寫不可以使用暴露地區的產品但我接到的檢舉是在南洋地區的指揮部裡面所有用的逆變器都是中國製的產品那因為這個檢舉很嚴重所以我昨天特別跑去南洋指揮部那邊去現看"},{"start":187.154,"end":213.036,"text":"來非常感謝我們南洋指揮部的弟兄很辛苦昨天太陽很大陪我在那邊看結果看到的現在部長啊您看到的就是所謂的逆變器旁邊貼的貼紙旁邊貼的貼紙大剌剌的就寫的Made in China大剌剌的就寫的Made in China這個讓我們非常的困惑非常的狐疑是"},{"start":214.017,"end":229.309,"text":"當初這個東西在裝的時候契約書已經載明了不可以做這件事情他們還是無視於國防部相關的規定甚至是契約上面的要求做了這件事情而且毫不避諱的"},{"start":230.31,"end":248.193,"text":"就在產品上面的貼紙就寫了Made in China這件事情我昨天去南洋指揮部玩了以後我有跟現場主持會議的指揮官說麻煩這件事情請他昨天回去的時候要跟部裡邊報告部長有沒有收到這樣的訊息"},{"start":249.481,"end":275.932,"text":"跟委員報告有,我們有,就我現在得到的訊息就是說,這一個逆變企業或者變流企業,它是德國一個叫SMA的公司品牌,但是是在大陸組裝的。那麼現在確認它有,我約使用的這一個大概是44個。那我們會一約要求陳上要在一個月內將這些錄製品拆除,更換符合這個契約的這個規範的一個產品。"},{"start":278.833,"end":286.298,"text":"這就是我今天把這件事情在質詢的時候請部長注意因為對於後續的處理這件事情"},{"start":287.549,"end":308.488,"text":"這家廠商是惡劣至極啊明明就知道不可以這樣做他還是決定這樣做但我們如果今天國防部在主張權力的時候只是把這個置義萬為胡作非為的廠商只是叫他更換完部長你覺得對這個廠商會有任何嚇阻的效力嗎"},{"start":310.91,"end":330.591,"text":"我們會按照那個合約條款的這個內容那我到現在為止沒有清楚的看到合約條款的內容那我們一方面就他這個要改進那我們也會清查有沒有類案的這個情形有類似案件的這些情形我們都會來全面的清查"},{"start":331.581,"end":354.59,"text":"因為部長是非常優秀的法律人特別拜託部長回去看我們國防部的契約因為如果在我們國防部的契約裡面對於這一種無視國防部的政策無視契約條款根本置義萬為的廠商我們如果定的契約法律效果只是被抓到了以後"},{"start":355.71,"end":379.119,"text":"換回來就好了我必須要說不會有任何嚇阻的效果以後他就繼續這樣幹因為如同剛剛部長所點出來的如同剛剛部長所點出來的這家廠商他是不是被欺騙所以才去用中國的逆變器不是他從頭到尾就知道他用的是中國的逆變器而且用的範圍"},{"start":380.646,"end":398.527,"text":"我再跟部長報告一下用的範圍恐怕不是只有南洋指揮部因為到目前為止我所收集到的資訊包括了我們在高雄的海軍艦隊指揮部包括了國防大學包括了三軍總醫院松山分區"},{"start":399.828,"end":428.399,"text":"這家廠商非常厲害國防部非常多的隱屈全部都有他們的案子他們可以這樣置義妄為無視規定如果我們最後國防部所謂的依照契約辦理只是要求他換過來的話恐怕是沒有辦法真正的二組未來有類似不肖的廠商一樣化葫蘆反正我就先用被抓到了以後再換回來就好了"},{"start":429.139,"end":441.731,"text":"部長是不是可以承諾嚴肅的檢討目前契約的規範是不是只能夠要求他換還是應該要採取更嚴厲追溯法律責任的行動"},{"start":442.999,"end":466.417,"text":"我們會來檢視相關合約的這個整個內容有沒有類似有一些相關的這個就是說我們要和約定的相關的內容來處理那另外我們也會全面清查國軍所有的這些太陽光電的這個設置營區是不是有使用錄製品的設備部長最後一點提醒就好了因為這個東西是驗收通過的"},{"start":467.418,"end":494.471,"text":"今年二月驗收通過的我昨天在現場的時候其實我很困惑因為我一看到那個機繩旁邊的貼紙就寫Made in China我的困惑在於說人家就已經大剌剌的也不遮掩就是Made in China我們驗收怎麼會通過但請部長不要誤會我的意思我沒有意思要去追究我們蘭陽指揮部弟兄他們的責任因為我知道"},{"start":495.455,"end":510.752,"text":"他們很辛苦光電這些產品未必也是他們所熟悉的但是是不是在驗收的SOP上少了關鍵的一環譬如說要求那個廠商出具原產地的證明"},{"start":511.974,"end":538.735,"text":"沒有出具這個東西的話驗收不會通過因為我相信如果當初驗收的SOP有這個要求的話應該不會出現這麼離譜的狀況是不是可以請驗收的程序一併檢討未來不要讓這個不肖的廠商有上下棘手的空間我們會一併來檢討這個委員所指教的這樣子的一個就是說有這樣的要求我們會來一併納入檢討"},{"start":540.265,"end":542.609,"text":"委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員"}]}}}}