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10:16:09","影片長度":"00:10:29","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長就「面對國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層之因應作為」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月26日及6月27日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:05:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:16:09+08:00","duration":629,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":353,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時5分）謝謝主席，請連次長。"],["主席：我們再請連次長。"],["連次長錦漳：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：謝謝連次長。想請教你的是，去年4月12日大陸商務部特別宣布，依據臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制，進行貿易壁壘調查，調查結果就是，因為2002年1月份我們加入世貿組織，到現在我們對大陸部分產品採取單方面的限制進口措施，在這種情況下，大陸認為沒有必要再給臺灣單方面讓利，所以大陸商務部的調查結果就是兩岸確實有貿易的一些障礙，所以大陸在去年12月就開始取消ECFA早收清單臺灣產品的關稅減免，今年5月又特別將134項產品的優惠稅率都取消，而這次賴清德總統上任之後，我們並沒有看到兩岸破冰的契機，所以ECFA對臺灣的關稅減免會不會在賴清德總統任內完全歸零？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，其實我們不做這種假設，但我們是用一個比較完整的分析，就是從去年開始，在去年初的時候，我們針對大陸有這樣的動作，就把它假設為萬一它全部把我們取消的時候，我們對產業要怎麼來協助它度過這個難關……"],["呂委員玉玲：對！是的！尤其是傳統產業！因為我們出口的大部分都是屬於半導體產品，都是電子零件的部分，傳統產業雖然在出口上大概只占2%，但是你要怎麼樣協助他們？你有什麼規劃？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，其實從去年開始，像鋼鐵、機械、自行車、紡織，還有石化等等，我們就一個、一個為他們量身定做……"],["呂委員玉玲：怎麼量身定做？"],["連次長錦漳：我們有為他們量身定做說，萬一這個完全取消的時候，我們要怎麼脫離紅色供應鏈，或是怎麼脫離對大陸的依賴，我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：怎麼樣脫離？講具體一點吧！"],["連次長錦漳：譬如說機械，我們要協助它去拓展其他市場，要拓展其他市場一定要技術提升，在技術提升的部分，我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：次長，其實最重要的是，這些產業他們自己都知道，技術怎麼提升？最重要的目標是我們會開拓其他市場，這是一定的。那麼其他市場的競爭力在哪裡？就是有沒有減免關稅嘛！能減免關稅，成本就不會過高，這樣才有競爭力啊！有競爭力才能維護他們在整個市場的公司營運，是不是這樣子？"],["連次長錦漳：對、對、對。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這才是重點。關稅的減免是重點，這樣他們才有競爭力，對不對？你認同嘛？"],["連次長錦漳：我們針對這部分就是，我除了提升你的競爭力之外，譬如說它要到泰國，在它到泰國要落地的那一刻，我們去幫它、協助它，可以在它落地的時候，怎麼讓它進到那個市場，這一部分我們去做一些協助。"],["呂委員玉玲：次長，也就是說，目前我們簽署FTA的國家只有8個，那是不是要有區域的或者是兩國的簽約，才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低？"],["連次長錦漳：對，關稅減低是這樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：這是很重要的，所以你要朝這個方面去做啊！是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：對、對、對，這個我們也努力在做，但是另外一部分是說，還沒有簽雙邊FTA的，我們有另外一個方式來協助他們。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以出口的關稅非常重要，你要幫他們找出路啊！是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：有、有、有。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這個部分你必須積極來做，也可以開放一些大陸產品進來，對於比較沒有限制的產品，如果能夠釋出善意，讓兩岸關係舒緩的話，我們在ECFA的方面才不會把所有的關稅減免歸零，是不是？這些都要努力，要多方面、多元地努力，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來本席想請問的是，因為現在大陸已經提出取消ECFA的關稅優惠，這就是一個國際上的訊號──臺灣有貿易壁壘的情形，這對我們申請加入CPTPP而言，會不會在所有的會員國裡面碰到更多的阻礙呢？"],["連次長錦漳：這件事情跟我們申請加入CPTPP應該是兩回事。"],["呂委員玉玲：可是會員國會認為我們貿易壁壘的情形這麼嚴重啊！"],["連次長錦漳：因為我們跟大陸是特殊的關係，所以一般國際在談這個的時候……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是CPTPP是會員國制的嘛！既然是會員國制，有一個會員國不同意，我們就進不去了啊！"],["連次長錦漳：因為大陸現在還不是它的會員國……"],["呂委員玉玲：我不是說大陸，而是說其他國家！因為我們會讓國際有這個訊息，認為我們臺灣有貿易壁壘的情形。"],["連次長錦漳：我們跟其他國家沒有貿易壁壘。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你還是要繼續努力嘛！"],["連次長錦漳：對，我們會繼續努力！"],["呂委員玉玲：你這麼有自信，你要繼續努力。"],["連次長錦漳：對！"],["呂委員玉玲：所以現在進入CPTPP的情況怎麼樣？我們已經申請了，有進度嗎？"],["連次長錦漳：這個是目前行政院那邊……"],["呂委員玉玲：還在努力嘛？所以會員國還是有阻礙，還沒有全部的會員國都同意嘛？是不是？"],["連次長錦漳：我們會來努力、我們會來努力。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這種現象你要小心地應對，好好地規劃。"],["連次長錦漳：好、好。"],["呂委員玉玲：對大陸多釋出、像一些產品上可以免於有這麼多的限制，這樣大家能夠互動的話，貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了。"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來本席想請問有關國營事業的人力問題、回到正題裡面。在國營事業和公營事業裡面，我們針對60歲到65歲，因為60歲到65歲就要退休了，在這5年會有人力缺口，這種情形台電公司有2,613人、中油公司有2,818人、台糖公司有616人、台水公司有655人，統計下來，未來5年退休的人力缺口將近有6,700人。本席要講的就是，因為人力你們沒有補足，都有缺口、都有人力不足，而現在要考公營事業、國營事業的人又減少，在這種人力不足的情況之下，你怎麼去做呢？"],["連次長錦漳：跟委員報告，我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱人員，所以我們的進用會從員級、工級還有約聘僱這幾個方向來進行，還有我們目前也在跟一些鄰近的高職合作，如果他一畢業……"],["呂委員玉玲：產業合作？"],["連次長錦漳：對，產學合作。我們四大公司都有在跟鄰近的高職合作，合作之後，他如果畢業……"],["呂委員玉玲：這不是根本解決問題的方式！尤其是你們人力不足包括巡檢人員、技術人員，你知道，桃園一直在進步，桃園每次跳電，強靭電網、配送電的電網都沒有辦法做好，巡檢人員不足，所以趕不上我們城市的進步，現在人力一下子缺口這麼大，而我們桃園還是一直在進步，你們的人力還是繼續有缺口啊！"],["連次長錦漳：我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：你用產學合作，這不是根本的方法！"],["連次長錦漳：產學合作只是其中一種方式，主要還是從招聘著手，一年差不多會招聘八、九百個。剛才講到巡檢人力，我們目前還是會透過一些數位科技來做協助、輔助，這一部分台電已經針對優先順序在安排、在做處理了。"],["呂委員玉玲：本席會這麼提，就是因為我們人力不足，你都靠其他地方來支援，就是從新北、苗栗、新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援，可是新北不足79人、桃園不足35人、新竹不足19人、苗栗不足15人，在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話，未來又有什麼產學合作，沒有根本解決的方法！尤其是現在在招考方面，國營事業和公營事業招考的人數也減少了，招考人數減少之後，你提高了整個鑑別的門檻，讓他們能夠進來，這樣子素質會不會變得更低啊？是不是這樣子？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們整體的用人數量一直在增加，就像前段時間台電大概是兩萬六，一直增加到兩萬七……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，因為城市進步了，所以用人會增加，但是報考的人數是減少的，你的錄取率又提高，那本席是擔心未來的品質、素質跟鑑別度都下降了。"],["王總經理耀庭：所以我們在新進員工的薪水部分，也做……"],["呂委員玉玲：你薪水調高了，可是你的環境有沒有改善呢？你跟民間公司競爭，想要民間的人才很難，因為民間的公司整個環境都有改善，那公營事業都沒有改善啊！"],["王總經理耀庭：是，我們在……"],["呂委員玉玲：你調整薪水，你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的公司比。"],["呂委員玉玲：是啊！這個就是競爭人力的問題啊！"],["王總經理耀庭：但是在住宿條件方面，我們都會提供宿舍，儘量滿足當地的……"],["呂委員玉玲：整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善。"],["連次長錦漳：福利我們有在做改善。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你要積極，本席提醒你，未來這五年你的缺口會更大，所以你整體的……不能靠產學了，我聽到你講產學，我就很擔心了。我們實質的技術人員、人力、人才才是最重要的，好不好？"],["連次長錦漳：好。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請陳亭妃委員詢答，在楊瓊瓔委員詢答結束之後，我們休息3分鐘，人性管理，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":234,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-17","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 622.588, \"end\": 622.708, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 622.708, \"end\": 622.728, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 624.914, \"end\": 625.195, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 625.195, \"end\": 625.215, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:11,515\n我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝主席請連次長我們再請連次長\n\n2\n00:00:19,312 --> 00:00:21,095\n臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制進行了貿易壁壘的這個調查\n\n3\n00:00:34,716 --> 00:00:34,736\n﹚呂玲\n\n4\n00:00:58,231 --> 00:00:58,251\n﹚呂玲\n\n5\n00:01:20,586 --> 00:01:44,095\n在這一次我們賴清德總統上任之後我們並沒有看到兩岸的破冰的這個契機所以這個ECFA在這個清單裡面所有的我們的關稅減免上會不會影響到我們未來的話會完全的這個就是所有的這個在賴清德總統這個任內可不可能就完全歸零了\n\n6\n00:01:44,995 --> 00:01:48,958\n根委員報告其實我們不做這種假設但是我們是用一個比較完整的一個分析就是說我們從去年開始在去年初的時候我們針對大陸有這樣的動作我們就把它假設說萬一它全部給我們取消的時候我們對產業我們要怎麼來協助它過過這個難關我們對產業尤其是傳產業因為大部分出口的部分的話都是屬於半導體的產品的電子零件的部分\n\n7\n00:02:13,815 --> 00:02:40,781\n我們傳統產業雖然說在這個出口上大概只有佔了2%而已但是你要怎麼樣協助他們你有什麼規劃跟委員報告其實從去年開始我們就跟像鋼鐵機械自行車紡織還有石化等等我們就一個一個為他們量身訂做什麼量身訂做我們有跟他們量身訂做說萬一這個完全取消的時候我們要怎麼去脫離紅色工業或怎麼去脫離對大陸的依賴\n\n8\n00:02:42,541 --> 00:02:44,502\n市長其實最重要的這些產業他們自己都知道技術怎麼提升最重要的目標我們會開拓其他市場這一定的那其他市場的競爭力在哪裡就是\n\n9\n00:03:06,570 --> 00:03:07,791\n我們針對這一部分就是說我除了提升你這樣的一個競爭力之外\n\n10\n00:03:26,986 --> 00:03:36,632\n那你要到比如說好他要到泰國那到泰國那個那一要落地的那一剎那我們去幫他協助他可以在那落地的時候怎麼去讓他進到那個市場這一部分我們去做一些協定也就是說現在我們的簽署FTA的這個國家目前只有8個那你是不是就是屬於區域的或是兩國的這種簽證的話簽約的話才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低\n\n11\n00:03:58,085 --> 00:04:13,519\n對關稅檢定是這樣對對對對是不是這個我們也努力在做但是另外一部分是說還沒有再簽雙邊的FTA之外我們有另外一個方式來解決所以出口的關稅是非常重要你要幫他們找出路啊對是不是有有有好所以這個你必須要積極來做了因為我們有有有\n\n12\n00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:14,620\n好﹗好\n\n13\n00:04:36,007 --> 00:04:45,919\n接下來本席想請問的是因為現在大陸已經提出了這個ECFA的這個取消之後的話那未來的話在國際上他就會認為說我們現在的話這個\n\n14\n00:04:51,189 --> 00:04:51,969\n會不會碰到更多阻礙\n\n15\n00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,141\n可是現在GPTPP是會員國製的嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:24,904 --> 00:05:36,834\n會員國資的話那有一個會員國不同意我們就進不去的阿是不是我不說大陸其他國家因為我們讓國際會有這個訊息認為說我們台灣有這個貿易壁壘的情形阿所以你還是要繼續努力嗎你這麼有自信你要繼續努力所以現在CPTPP的進駐的情況怎麼樣我們已經申請了那有進駐嗎\n\n17\n00:05:49,652 --> 00:06:10,441\n這個是我們目前還在努力嘛所以會員國還是有阻礙嘛還沒全部的會員國都同意嘛所以這種現象你要小心的應對好好的規劃對大陸的多釋出像一些產品上可以免有這麼多的限制這樣只要大家能夠互動的話貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了\n\n18\n00:06:11,681 --> 00:06:21,303\n那接下來我們想請問的就是國營事業的人力問題回到正題裡面現在國營事業跟公營的事業臺電的話我們在針對這60歲到65歲因為60歲到65歲就要退休了在這5年情形或人力的缺口情形臺電的大概有2613人中油有2818人還有台糖有6\n\n19\n00:06:39,167 --> 00:06:39,187\n跟\n\n20\n00:07:06,704 --> 00:07:30,067\n委員報告我們除了禁用那個因為我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱的所以這種禁用的會從原籍公籍還有約聘僱這幾個方向來禁用還有我們目前也在跟一些高職的學校鄰近的高職學校去做合作那如果他一畢業產業合作對產學合作我們四大公司都有在跟\n\n21\n00:07:30,908 --> 00:07:31,951\n這不是根本的解決問題的方式啊\n\n22\n00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:39,140\n你這個人力還是繼續有缺口啊\n\n23\n00:08:05,470 --> 00:08:10,115\n您用產學合作不是根本的方法?不是說產學合作是其中一種方式主要還是從招聘這一部分來一年差不多有八九百位會去招聘那剛才講那個巡檢人力我們目前還是會透過一些世衛科技來做協助補助那這一部分我們台電已經\n\n24\n00:08:23,969 --> 00:08:45,829\n正對那些優先順序已經在安排在做處理本席會這麼提就是因為我們人力不足你都靠其他地方來支援就從新北苗栗新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援現在你不足的看新北不足的人79人桃園不足有35人新竹是19人苗栗也15人都在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話\n\n25\n00:08:47,918 --> 00:09:04,628\n那現在未來你的用什麼產學合作沒有根本解決方法那尤其是現在在招考方面現在我們國營事業跟公營的事業招考的人數也是減少了所以你的招考的人數減少之後你提高了這個這個整個這個鑑別的這個門檻讓他們都能夠進來這樣子你的數值會不會變得更低啊\n\n26\n00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:35,085\n是不是這樣子?跟委員報告齁,我們整體的用人數量一直在增加齁,就像前段時間臺電大概是兩萬六對,因為你的程式進步了嘛,所以用人會增加但是招考,考來報考的人數是減少的,那你那個入取率又提高,那我們本期是擔心你未來的這個品質素質上跟你的鑑別度的話都會下降了\n\n27\n00:09:35,605 --> 00:09:55,148\n所以我們在新進員工的薪水的部分也做得比較高你薪水調高了可是你的環境有沒有改善呢?你跟民間公司的話競爭民間的人才你很難因為民間公司整個環境都有改善那你本身公營事業都沒有這樣改善啦你調整薪水你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎?\n\n28\n00:09:56,029 --> 00:10:22,728\n當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的這個就是競爭的人力的問題但是在住宿條件方面我們都提供宿舍盡量滿足當地的整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善所以你要積極本席提醒你未來這5年你的缺口會更大所以你整體的不能靠產學了我聽到你講產學我就擔心了我們要實質的技術人員人力人才才是最重要的好不好好\n\n29\n00:10:24,914 --> 00:10:25,215\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t11515\t我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝主席 請連次長我們再請連次長\n19312\t21095\t臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制進行了貿易壁壘的這個調查\n34716\t34736\t﹚呂玲\n58231\t58251\t﹚呂玲\n80586\t104095\t在這一次我們賴清德總統上任之後我們並沒有看到兩岸的破冰的這個契機所以這個ECFA在這個清單裡面所有的我們的關稅減免上會不會影響到我們未來的話會完全的這個就是所有的這個在賴清德總統這個任內可不可能就完全歸零了\n104995\t108958\t根委員報告其實我們不做這種假設但是我們是用一個比較完整的一個分析就是說我們從去年開始在去年初的時候我們針對大陸有這樣的動作我們就把它假設說萬一它全部給我們取消的時候我們對產業我們要怎麼來協助它過過這個難關我們對產業尤其是傳產業因為大部分出口的部分的話都是屬於半導體的產品的電子零件的部分\n133815\t160781\t我們傳統產業雖然說在這個出口上大概只有佔了2%而已但是你要怎麼樣協助他們你有什麼規劃跟委員報告其實從去年開始我們就跟像鋼鐵機械自行車紡織還有石化等等我們就一個一個為他們量身訂做什麼量身訂做我們有跟他們量身訂做說萬一這個完全取消的時候我們要怎麼去脫離紅色工業或怎麼去脫離對大陸的依賴\n162541\t164502\t市長其實最重要的這些產業他們自己都知道技術怎麼提升最重要的目標我們會開拓其他市場這一定的那其他市場的競爭力在哪裡就是\n186570\t187791\t我們針對這一部分就是說我除了提升你這樣的一個競爭力之外\n206986\t216632\t那你要到比如說好他要到泰國那到泰國那個那一要落地的那一剎那我們去幫他協助他可以在那落地的時候怎麼去讓他進到那個市場這一部分我們去做一些協定也就是說現在我們的簽署FTA的這個國家目前只有8個那你是不是就是屬於區域的或是兩國的這種簽證的話簽約的話才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低\n238085\t253519\t對關稅檢定是這樣對對對對是不是這個我們也努力在做但是另外一部分是說還沒有再簽雙邊的FTA之外我們有另外一個方式來解決所以出口的關稅是非常重要你要幫他們找出路啊對是不是有有有好所以這個你必須要積極來做了因為我們有有有\n254480\t254620\t好﹗好\n276007\t285919\t接下來本席想請問的是因為現在大陸已經提出了這個ECFA的這個取消之後的話那未來的話在國際上他就會認為說我們現在的話這個\n291189\t291969\t會不會碰到更多阻礙\n307560\t308141\t可是現在GPTPP是會員國製的嗎?\n324904\t336834\t會員國資的話那有一個會員國不同意我們就進不去的阿是不是我不說大陸其他國家因為我們讓國際會有這個訊息認為說我們台灣有這個貿易壁壘的情形阿所以你還是要繼續努力嗎你這麼有自信你要繼續努力所以現在CPTPP的進駐的情況怎麼樣我們已經申請了那有進駐嗎\n349652\t370441\t這個是我們目前還在努力嘛所以會員國還是有阻礙嘛還沒全部的會員國都同意嘛所以這種現象你要小心的應對好好的規劃對大陸的多釋出像一些產品上可以免有這麼多的限制這樣只要大家能夠互動的話貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了\n371681\t381303\t那接下來我們想請問的就是國營事業的人力問題回到正題裡面現在國營事業跟公營的事業臺電的話我們在針對這60歲到65歲因為60歲到65歲就要退休了在這5年情形或人力的缺口情形臺電的大概有2613人中油有2818人還有台糖有6\n399167\t399187\t跟\n426704\t450067\t委員報告我們除了禁用那個因為我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱的所以這種禁用的會從原籍公籍還有約聘僱這幾個方向來禁用還有我們目前也在跟一些高職的學校鄰近的高職學校去做合作那如果他一畢業產業合作對產學合作我們四大公司都有在跟\n450908\t451951\t這不是根本的解決問題的方式啊\n458240\t459140\t你這個人力還是繼續有缺口啊\n485470\t490115\t您用產學合作不是根本的方法?不是說產學合作是其中一種方式主要還是從招聘這一部分來一年差不多有八九百位會去招聘那剛才講那個巡檢人力我們目前還是會透過一些世衛科技來做協助補助那這一部分我們台電已經\n503969\t525829\t正對那些優先順序已經在安排在做處理本席會這麼提就是因為我們人力不足你都靠其他地方來支援就從新北苗栗新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援現在你不足的看新北不足的人79人桃園不足有35人新竹是19人苗栗也15人都在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話\n527918\t544628\t那現在未來你的用什麼產學合作沒有根本解決方法那尤其是現在在招考方面現在我們國營事業跟公營的事業招考的人數也是減少了所以你的招考的人數減少之後你提高了這個這個整個這個鑑別的這個門檻讓他們都能夠進來這樣子你的數值會不會變得更低啊\n550990\t575085\t是不是這樣子?跟委員報告齁,我們整體的用人數量一直在增加齁,就像前段時間臺電大概是兩萬六對,因為你的程式進步了嘛,所以用人會增加但是招考,考來報考的人數是減少的,那你那個入取率又提高,那我們本期是擔心你未來的這個品質素質上跟你的鑑別度的話都會下降了\n575605\t595148\t所以我們在新進員工的薪水的部分也做得比較高你薪水調高了可是你的環境有沒有改善呢?你跟民間公司的話競爭民間的人才你很難因為民間公司整個環境都有改善那你本身公營事業都沒有這樣改善啦你調整薪水你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎?\n596029\t622728\t當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的這個就是競爭的人力的問題但是在住宿條件方面我們都提供宿舍盡量滿足當地的整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善所以你要積極本席提醒你未來這5年你的缺口會更大所以你整體的不能靠產學了我聽到你講產學我就擔心了我們要實質的技術人員人力人才才是最重要的好不好好\n624914\t625215\t主席\n","txt":"我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝主席 請連次長我們再請連次長\n臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制進行了貿易壁壘的這個調查\n﹚呂玲\n﹚呂玲\n在這一次我們賴清德總統上任之後我們並沒有看到兩岸的破冰的這個契機所以這個ECFA在這個清單裡面所有的我們的關稅減免上會不會影響到我們未來的話會完全的這個就是所有的這個在賴清德總統這個任內可不可能就完全歸零了\n根委員報告其實我們不做這種假設但是我們是用一個比較完整的一個分析就是說我們從去年開始在去年初的時候我們針對大陸有這樣的動作我們就把它假設說萬一它全部給我們取消的時候我們對產業我們要怎麼來協助它過過這個難關我們對產業尤其是傳產業因為大部分出口的部分的話都是屬於半導體的產品的電子零件的部分\n我們傳統產業雖然說在這個出口上大概只有佔了2%而已但是你要怎麼樣協助他們你有什麼規劃跟委員報告其實從去年開始我們就跟像鋼鐵機械自行車紡織還有石化等等我們就一個一個為他們量身訂做什麼量身訂做我們有跟他們量身訂做說萬一這個完全取消的時候我們要怎麼去脫離紅色工業或怎麼去脫離對大陸的依賴\n市長其實最重要的這些產業他們自己都知道技術怎麼提升最重要的目標我們會開拓其他市場這一定的那其他市場的競爭力在哪裡就是\n我們針對這一部分就是說我除了提升你這樣的一個競爭力之外\n那你要到比如說好他要到泰國那到泰國那個那一要落地的那一剎那我們去幫他協助他可以在那落地的時候怎麼去讓他進到那個市場這一部分我們去做一些協定也就是說現在我們的簽署FTA的這個國家目前只有8個那你是不是就是屬於區域的或是兩國的這種簽證的話簽約的話才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低\n對關稅檢定是這樣對對對對是不是這個我們也努力在做但是另外一部分是說還沒有再簽雙邊的FTA之外我們有另外一個方式來解決所以出口的關稅是非常重要你要幫他們找出路啊對是不是有有有好所以這個你必須要積極來做了因為我們有有有\n好﹗好\n接下來本席想請問的是因為現在大陸已經提出了這個ECFA的這個取消之後的話那未來的話在國際上他就會認為說我們現在的話這個\n會不會碰到更多阻礙\n可是現在GPTPP是會員國製的嗎?\n會員國資的話那有一個會員國不同意我們就進不去的阿是不是我不說大陸其他國家因為我們讓國際會有這個訊息認為說我們台灣有這個貿易壁壘的情形阿所以你還是要繼續努力嗎你這麼有自信你要繼續努力所以現在CPTPP的進駐的情況怎麼樣我們已經申請了那有進駐嗎\n這個是我們目前還在努力嘛所以會員國還是有阻礙嘛還沒全部的會員國都同意嘛所以這種現象你要小心的應對好好的規劃對大陸的多釋出像一些產品上可以免有這麼多的限制這樣只要大家能夠互動的話貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了\n那接下來我們想請問的就是國營事業的人力問題回到正題裡面現在國營事業跟公營的事業臺電的話我們在針對這60歲到65歲因為60歲到65歲就要退休了在這5年情形或人力的缺口情形臺電的大概有2613人中油有2818人還有台糖有6\n跟\n委員報告我們除了禁用那個因為我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱的所以這種禁用的會從原籍公籍還有約聘僱這幾個方向來禁用還有我們目前也在跟一些高職的學校鄰近的高職學校去做合作那如果他一畢業產業合作對產學合作我們四大公司都有在跟\n這不是根本的解決問題的方式啊\n你這個人力還是繼續有缺口啊\n您用產學合作不是根本的方法?不是說產學合作是其中一種方式主要還是從招聘這一部分來一年差不多有八九百位會去招聘那剛才講那個巡檢人力我們目前還是會透過一些世衛科技來做協助補助那這一部分我們台電已經\n正對那些優先順序已經在安排在做處理本席會這麼提就是因為我們人力不足你都靠其他地方來支援就從新北苗栗新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援現在你不足的看新北不足的人79人桃園不足有35人新竹是19人苗栗也15人都在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話\n那現在未來你的用什麼產學合作沒有根本解決方法那尤其是現在在招考方面現在我們國營事業跟公營的事業招考的人數也是減少了所以你的招考的人數減少之後你提高了這個這個整個這個鑑別的這個門檻讓他們都能夠進來這樣子你的數值會不會變得更低啊\n是不是這樣子?跟委員報告齁,我們整體的用人數量一直在增加齁,就像前段時間臺電大概是兩萬六對,因為你的程式進步了嘛,所以用人會增加但是招考,考來報考的人數是減少的,那你那個入取率又提高,那我們本期是擔心你未來的這個品質素質上跟你的鑑別度的話都會下降了\n所以我們在新進員工的薪水的部分也做得比較高你薪水調高了可是你的環境有沒有改善呢?你跟民間公司的話競爭民間的人才你很難因為民間公司整個環境都有改善那你本身公營事業都沒有這樣改善啦你調整薪水你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎?\n當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的這個就是競爭的人力的問題但是在住宿條件方面我們都提供宿舍盡量滿足當地的整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善所以你要積極本席提醒你未來這5年你的缺口會更大所以你整體的不能靠產學了我聽到你講產學我就擔心了我們要實質的技術人員人力人才才是最重要的好不好好\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:11.515\n我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝主席請連次長我們再請連次長\n\n00:19.312 --> 00:21.095\n臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制進行了貿易壁壘的這個調查\n\n00:34.716 --> 00:34.736\n﹚呂玲\n\n00:58.231 --> 00:58.251\n﹚呂玲\n\n01:20.586 --> 01:44.095\n在這一次我們賴清德總統上任之後我們並沒有看到兩岸的破冰的這個契機所以這個ECFA在這個清單裡面所有的我們的關稅減免上會不會影響到我們未來的話會完全的這個就是所有的這個在賴清德總統這個任內可不可能就完全歸零了\n\n01:44.995 --> 01:48.958\n根委員報告其實我們不做這種假設但是我們是用一個比較完整的一個分析就是說我們從去年開始在去年初的時候我們針對大陸有這樣的動作我們就把它假設說萬一它全部給我們取消的時候我們對產業我們要怎麼來協助它過過這個難關我們對產業尤其是傳產業因為大部分出口的部分的話都是屬於半導體的產品的電子零件的部分\n\n02:13.815 --> 02:40.781\n我們傳統產業雖然說在這個出口上大概只有佔了2%而已但是你要怎麼樣協助他們你有什麼規劃跟委員報告其實從去年開始我們就跟像鋼鐵機械自行車紡織還有石化等等我們就一個一個為他們量身訂做什麼量身訂做我們有跟他們量身訂做說萬一這個完全取消的時候我們要怎麼去脫離紅色工業或怎麼去脫離對大陸的依賴\n\n02:42.541 --> 02:44.502\n市長其實最重要的這些產業他們自己都知道技術怎麼提升最重要的目標我們會開拓其他市場這一定的那其他市場的競爭力在哪裡就是\n\n03:06.570 --> 03:07.791\n我們針對這一部分就是說我除了提升你這樣的一個競爭力之外\n\n03:26.986 --> 03:36.632\n那你要到比如說好他要到泰國那到泰國那個那一要落地的那一剎那我們去幫他協助他可以在那落地的時候怎麼去讓他進到那個市場這一部分我們去做一些協定也就是說現在我們的簽署FTA的這個國家目前只有8個那你是不是就是屬於區域的或是兩國的這種簽證的話簽約的話才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低\n\n03:58.085 --> 04:13.519\n對關稅檢定是這樣對對對對是不是這個我們也努力在做但是另外一部分是說還沒有再簽雙邊的FTA之外我們有另外一個方式來解決所以出口的關稅是非常重要你要幫他們找出路啊對是不是有有有好所以這個你必須要積極來做了因為我們有有有\n\n04:14.480 --> 04:14.620\n好﹗好\n\n04:36.007 --> 04:45.919\n接下來本席想請問的是因為現在大陸已經提出了這個ECFA的這個取消之後的話那未來的話在國際上他就會認為說我們現在的話這個\n\n04:51.189 --> 04:51.969\n會不會碰到更多阻礙\n\n05:07.560 --> 05:08.141\n可是現在GPTPP是會員國製的嗎?\n\n05:24.904 --> 05:36.834\n會員國資的話那有一個會員國不同意我們就進不去的阿是不是我不說大陸其他國家因為我們讓國際會有這個訊息認為說我們台灣有這個貿易壁壘的情形阿所以你還是要繼續努力嗎你這麼有自信你要繼續努力所以現在CPTPP的進駐的情況怎麼樣我們已經申請了那有進駐嗎\n\n05:49.652 --> 06:10.441\n這個是我們目前還在努力嘛所以會員國還是有阻礙嘛還沒全部的會員國都同意嘛所以這種現象你要小心的應對好好的規劃對大陸的多釋出像一些產品上可以免有這麼多的限制這樣只要大家能夠互動的話貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了\n\n06:11.681 --> 06:21.303\n那接下來我們想請問的就是國營事業的人力問題回到正題裡面現在國營事業跟公營的事業臺電的話我們在針對這60歲到65歲因為60歲到65歲就要退休了在這5年情形或人力的缺口情形臺電的大概有2613人中油有2818人還有台糖有6\n\n06:39.167 --> 06:39.187\n跟\n\n07:06.704 --> 07:30.067\n委員報告我們除了禁用那個因為我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱的所以這種禁用的會從原籍公籍還有約聘僱這幾個方向來禁用還有我們目前也在跟一些高職的學校鄰近的高職學校去做合作那如果他一畢業產業合作對產學合作我們四大公司都有在跟\n\n07:30.908 --> 07:31.951\n這不是根本的解決問題的方式啊\n\n07:38.240 --> 07:39.140\n你這個人力還是繼續有缺口啊\n\n08:05.470 --> 08:10.115\n您用產學合作不是根本的方法?不是說產學合作是其中一種方式主要還是從招聘這一部分來一年差不多有八九百位會去招聘那剛才講那個巡檢人力我們目前還是會透過一些世衛科技來做協助補助那這一部分我們台電已經\n\n08:23.969 --> 08:45.829\n正對那些優先順序已經在安排在做處理本席會這麼提就是因為我們人力不足你都靠其他地方來支援就從新北苗栗新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援現在你不足的看新北不足的人79人桃園不足有35人新竹是19人苗栗也15人都在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話\n\n08:47.918 --> 09:04.628\n那現在未來你的用什麼產學合作沒有根本解決方法那尤其是現在在招考方面現在我們國營事業跟公營的事業招考的人數也是減少了所以你的招考的人數減少之後你提高了這個這個整個這個鑑別的這個門檻讓他們都能夠進來這樣子你的數值會不會變得更低啊\n\n09:10.990 --> 09:35.085\n是不是這樣子?跟委員報告齁,我們整體的用人數量一直在增加齁,就像前段時間臺電大概是兩萬六對,因為你的程式進步了嘛,所以用人會增加但是招考,考來報考的人數是減少的,那你那個入取率又提高,那我們本期是擔心你未來的這個品質素質上跟你的鑑別度的話都會下降了\n\n09:35.605 --> 09:55.148\n所以我們在新進員工的薪水的部分也做得比較高你薪水調高了可是你的環境有沒有改善呢?你跟民間公司的話競爭民間的人才你很難因為民間公司整個環境都有改善那你本身公營事業都沒有這樣改善啦你調整薪水你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎?\n\n09:56.029 --> 10:22.728\n當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的這個就是競爭的人力的問題但是在住宿條件方面我們都提供宿舍盡量滿足當地的整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善所以你要積極本席提醒你未來這5年你的缺口會更大所以你整體的不能靠產學了我聽到你講產學我就擔心了我們要實質的技術人員人力人才才是最重要的好不好好\n\n10:24.914 --> 10:25.215\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":11.515,"text":"我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝主席 請連次長我們再請連次長"},{"start":19.312,"end":21.095,"text":"臺灣對於大陸的貿易限制進行了貿易壁壘的這個調查"},{"start":34.716,"end":34.736,"text":"﹚呂玲"},{"start":58.231,"end":58.251,"text":"﹚呂玲"},{"start":80.586,"end":104.095,"text":"在這一次我們賴清德總統上任之後我們並沒有看到兩岸的破冰的這個契機所以這個ECFA在這個清單裡面所有的我們的關稅減免上會不會影響到我們未來的話會完全的這個就是所有的這個在賴清德總統這個任內可不可能就完全歸零了"},{"start":104.995,"end":108.958,"text":"根委員報告其實我們不做這種假設但是我們是用一個比較完整的一個分析就是說我們從去年開始在去年初的時候我們針對大陸有這樣的動作我們就把它假設說萬一它全部給我們取消的時候我們對產業我們要怎麼來協助它過過這個難關我們對產業尤其是傳產業因為大部分出口的部分的話都是屬於半導體的產品的電子零件的部分"},{"start":133.815,"end":160.781,"text":"我們傳統產業雖然說在這個出口上大概只有佔了2%而已但是你要怎麼樣協助他們你有什麼規劃跟委員報告其實從去年開始我們就跟像鋼鐵機械自行車紡織還有石化等等我們就一個一個為他們量身訂做什麼量身訂做我們有跟他們量身訂做說萬一這個完全取消的時候我們要怎麼去脫離紅色工業或怎麼去脫離對大陸的依賴"},{"start":162.541,"end":164.502,"text":"市長其實最重要的這些產業他們自己都知道技術怎麼提升最重要的目標我們會開拓其他市場這一定的那其他市場的競爭力在哪裡就是"},{"start":186.57,"end":187.791,"text":"我們針對這一部分就是說我除了提升你這樣的一個競爭力之外"},{"start":206.986,"end":216.632,"text":"那你要到比如說好他要到泰國那到泰國那個那一要落地的那一剎那我們去幫他協助他可以在那落地的時候怎麼去讓他進到那個市場這一部分我們去做一些協定也就是說現在我們的簽署FTA的這個國家目前只有8個那你是不是就是屬於區域的或是兩國的這種簽證的話簽約的話才能夠讓他們的關稅可以減低"},{"start":238.085,"end":253.519,"text":"對關稅檢定是這樣對對對對是不是這個我們也努力在做但是另外一部分是說還沒有再簽雙邊的FTA之外我們有另外一個方式來解決所以出口的關稅是非常重要你要幫他們找出路啊對是不是有有有好所以這個你必須要積極來做了因為我們有有有"},{"start":254.48,"end":254.62,"text":"好﹗好"},{"start":276.007,"end":285.919,"text":"接下來本席想請問的是因為現在大陸已經提出了這個ECFA的這個取消之後的話那未來的話在國際上他就會認為說我們現在的話這個"},{"start":291.189,"end":291.969,"text":"會不會碰到更多阻礙"},{"start":307.56,"end":308.141,"text":"可是現在GPTPP是會員國製的嗎?"},{"start":324.904,"end":336.834,"text":"會員國資的話那有一個會員國不同意我們就進不去的阿是不是我不說大陸其他國家因為我們讓國際會有這個訊息認為說我們台灣有這個貿易壁壘的情形阿所以你還是要繼續努力嗎你這麼有自信你要繼續努力所以現在CPTPP的進駐的情況怎麼樣我們已經申請了那有進駐嗎"},{"start":349.652,"end":370.441,"text":"這個是我們目前還在努力嘛所以會員國還是有阻礙嘛還沒全部的會員國都同意嘛所以這種現象你要小心的應對好好的規劃對大陸的多釋出像一些產品上可以免有這麼多的限制這樣只要大家能夠互動的話貿易壁壘的情形就會減少了"},{"start":371.681,"end":381.303,"text":"那接下來我們想請問的就是國營事業的人力問題回到正題裡面現在國營事業跟公營的事業臺電的話我們在針對這60歲到65歲因為60歲到65歲就要退休了在這5年情形或人力的缺口情形臺電的大概有2613人中油有2818人還有台糖有6"},{"start":399.167,"end":399.187,"text":"跟"},{"start":426.704,"end":450.067,"text":"委員報告我們除了禁用那個因為我們也會聘用當地的一些約聘僱的所以這種禁用的會從原籍公籍還有約聘僱這幾個方向來禁用還有我們目前也在跟一些高職的學校鄰近的高職學校去做合作那如果他一畢業產業合作對產學合作我們四大公司都有在跟"},{"start":450.908,"end":451.951,"text":"這不是根本的解決問題的方式啊"},{"start":458.24,"end":459.14,"text":"你這個人力還是繼續有缺口啊"},{"start":485.47,"end":490.115,"text":"您用產學合作不是根本的方法?不是說產學合作是其中一種方式主要還是從招聘這一部分來一年差不多有八九百位會去招聘那剛才講那個巡檢人力我們目前還是會透過一些世衛科技來做協助補助那這一部分我們台電已經"},{"start":503.969,"end":525.829,"text":"正對那些優先順序已經在安排在做處理本席會這麼提就是因為我們人力不足你都靠其他地方來支援就從新北苗栗新竹那邊調人力來我們桃園支援現在你不足的看新北不足的人79人桃園不足有35人新竹是19人苗栗也15人都在不足的情況下調配來桃園的話"},{"start":527.918,"end":544.628,"text":"那現在未來你的用什麼產學合作沒有根本解決方法那尤其是現在在招考方面現在我們國營事業跟公營的事業招考的人數也是減少了所以你的招考的人數減少之後你提高了這個這個整個這個鑑別的這個門檻讓他們都能夠進來這樣子你的數值會不會變得更低啊"},{"start":550.99,"end":575.085,"text":"是不是這樣子?跟委員報告齁,我們整體的用人數量一直在增加齁,就像前段時間臺電大概是兩萬六對,因為你的程式進步了嘛,所以用人會增加但是招考,考來報考的人數是減少的,那你那個入取率又提高,那我們本期是擔心你未來的這個品質素質上跟你的鑑別度的話都會下降了"},{"start":575.605,"end":595.148,"text":"所以我們在新進員工的薪水的部分也做得比較高你薪水調高了可是你的環境有沒有改善呢?你跟民間公司的話競爭民間的人才你很難因為民間公司整個環境都有改善那你本身公營事業都沒有這樣改善啦你調整薪水你的薪水比得上民間公司嗎?"},{"start":596.029,"end":622.728,"text":"當然薪水沒辦法跟一些特別大的這個就是競爭的人力的問題但是在住宿條件方面我們都提供宿舍盡量滿足當地的整體的工作環境還是要獲得改善所以你要積極本席提醒你未來這5年你的缺口會更大所以你整體的不能靠產學了我聽到你講產學我就擔心了我們要實質的技術人員人力人才才是最重要的好不好好"},{"start":624.914,"end":625.215,"text":"主席"}]}}}}