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\"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 263.447, \"end\": 263.467, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 263.467, \"end\": 263.567, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 263.567, \"end\": 263.587, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 263.587, \"end\": 263.647, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 263.647, \"end\": 263.687, \"score\": 0.485}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 263.687, \"end\": 263.707, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 263.707, \"end\": 263.787, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 263.787, \"end\": 263.827, \"score\": 0.225}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 263.827, \"end\": 263.847, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 647.388, \"end\": 647.528, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 647.528, \"end\": 647.608, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 647.608, \"end\": 647.848, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 647.848, \"end\": 648.028, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 648.028, \"end\": 648.208, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 648.208, \"end\": 648.348, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 648.348, \"end\": 648.829, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 648.829, \"end\": 649.109, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 649.109, \"end\": 649.129, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,156 --> 00:00:04,322\n謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。請顧部長。\n\n2\n00:00:13,123 --> 00:00:36,302\n是林委員好部長好我想今天還有非常多的媒體在場您剛進來的時候很多媒體都在針對好像今天有評論報導講說您來委員會備詢然後連參謀總長都一起來了所以說您這個這樣的動作遭受到質疑不過本席看了一下今天其實我們的討論事項的議程就是國防部長率領參謀總長來報告漢光四十號演習嗎\n\n3\n00:00:40,305 --> 00:00:55,093\n我們也都知道這個國會擴權法案目前復議也失敗了所以是在釋憲當中那麼這是主席所排定的這個議程所以您真的覺得這個議程當中有不適合但是不好意思說嗎還是說其實您覺得是OK的\n\n4\n00:00:57,034 --> 00:01:12,403\n因為我覺得既然這是議程當中那麼主席會議也要求的話您也就必須要率領這個參謀總長來出席嗎?那麼您個人怎麼來看這個題目?因為我感覺像覺得這個報導從頭到尾都沒有提到一個關鍵就是這樣子如果沒到參謀總長來參謀總長可能藐視國會啊\n\n5\n00:01:15,769 --> 00:01:30,847\n跟委員報告第一個應該要跟國會來接受到國會來接受質詢的基本上應該還是國防部部長那但是大法官四十四六一號解釋確實有一個所謂列席備詢的一個\n\n6\n00:01:31,628 --> 00:01:55,014\n規定,那他就是在解釋參謀總長有沒有練習備詢的義務。那我查了461號解釋,他確實有這樣子的一個練習備詢的一個義務存在。但是當然就涉及國防機密的事項,當然就可以不回答。當然我也是如此,就涉及到國家安全的這些機密的這個\n\n7\n00:01:57,755 --> 00:02:13,526\n事項我們當然都不能夠在這個公開的場合加以回答那所以基於這樣的一個考量那又是涉及到漢光那因為漢光進入實兵驗證之後呢這一個統裁部是由這個參謀總長來負責所以我想我們認為那就就這個主題來講那就請參謀總長來列席備詢\n\n8\n00:02:19,997 --> 00:02:39,110\n好,謝謝部長清楚的說明,因為我想這個有的時候,這個因果關係還是要搞清楚,如果說是立法院的要求,那麼對於國防委員會的尊重,我相信部長也會依照這個方式來進行溝通。那麼我也不希望說,好像質詢還沒有開始,但是這個參謀總長是不是要來,然後就完全的\n\n9\n00:02:42,552 --> 00:02:44,275\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n10\n00:02:59,736 --> 00:03:15,726\n本席對於這個你們今天在報告當中特別提到的是接下來會以就是不必要的一種所謂的展示性的這個演習的部分我們就把它盡量的避免或減少但是我想部長你也知道如果以俄烏戰爭的發展連中共的共軍將領都說接下來\n\n11\n00:03:20,069 --> 00:03:21,170\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n12\n00:03:42,177 --> 00:04:02,535\n這一次有特別將這個認知戰的部分給納入進來那因為認知戰的部分我們現在如果要進一步講是應該講說是一個戰略溝通的機制也就是說他要對內展現國防的防衛作戰力量來建立全民的信心那對外\n\n13\n00:04:03,235 --> 00:04:20,184\n也要傳達我國建立防衛的決心那爭取國際社會的關注跟支持那對敵要想辦法削弱他們的這個對台動武的決心瓦解敵軍的戰鬥的意志這些等等都會都是在我們這一次這一個陣戰\n\n14\n00:04:23,447 --> 00:04:31,254\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24\n\n15\n00:04:52,165 --> 00:04:57,648\n確實如果一旦發出假訊息說這個ATM沒有現金那麼銀行會發生擠兌社會就會進行一種動盪那麼台灣跟中國之間我們知道漢光演習也就是預設預警中國對於台灣的這種侵害戰爭的發動那麼他有可能會不會就從金融因為兩岸之間的金融的交流也是非常頻繁的\n\n16\n00:05:17,256 --> 00:05:40,697\n那麼我想要就教部長的就是過去因為您曾經也擔過金管會的主委啦所以我會拿這一題來講的原因是因為金融業的部分必須要跟央行跟金管會有做一些溝通跟交流過去我一再提醒的是我在財政委員會要求央行或金管會做這個部分的時候他們的回應當然都是說他們有一些內部的演練跟操練\n\n17\n00:05:42,478 --> 00:05:47,982\n但是如果以俄烏戰爭來講為什麼在俄烏戰爭底下銀行可以奇蹟似的可以生還系統可以如期的運作那就是他們在2021年底知道俄羅斯有意圖入侵的時候就採取了一些措施包括烏克蘭的央行跟銀行業都有展開過壓力測試所以我在這裡要提醒的是部長有沒有可能考慮\n\n18\n00:06:05,256 --> 00:06:27,802\n把金融跟網路跟銀行相關的就像您所說的認知作戰已經包含進來的時候有沒有可能進一步的是找央行找金管會甚至於數發部來做一個整體的漢光金融演習的相關的演練不一定放到這一次的四十號的漢光演習但是未來有沒有可能有加入的可能因為\n\n19\n00:06:28,882 --> 00:06:40,348\n現在的作戰恐怕不是只是我們看到的這些槍、炮、彈藥實體型的傷害式的作戰。金融的傷害其實可能更無形而且更需要關注。\n\n20\n00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:55,973\n跟委員報告因為我在國安會待過這一個部分我們在國安會的時候就這個相關的涉及到特別是涉及到全社會防衛任性的這一塊我們將各種\n\n21\n00:07:01,254 --> 00:07:02,035\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n22\n00:07:20,452 --> 00:07:45,632\n也在做相關的一些兵推要做相關的兵推然後另外也要加強他們的金融相關的韌性就我的理解是如此那至於他這個整個部分要不要納入漢光的這個部分因為我們現在有這個明安、萬安、彭新、志強這個部分那還有其他的這個整個的部分在屬於這個權動署他們所規劃的\n\n23\n00:07:50,636 --> 00:08:06,165\n他們是作為一個秘書單位,現在總統也成立說要成立全民社會防衛委員會,那相關的這樣子的\n\n24\n00:08:11,536 --> 00:08:32,229\n全社會防衛的這個韌性或者國家韌性的建構是非常重要的一環那我想哪一些部分可以納入到這個漢光的兵推的作為一個演練的一個部分呢這個部分可能我們還要做跨部會的一個協調特別如果涉及到\n\n25\n00:08:33,229 --> 00:08:50,306\n國安層級的那可能要由國安會那甚至是跟行政院那邊要做一些協調那本部的立場應該是站在要配應該來配合來實施做這樣子的一個演練\n\n26\n00:08:51,431 --> 00:09:12,460\n好我想因為以部長的經歷啦從金管會到國安會再到現在的這個國防部當中本席會在這裡提出建議跟建言就是很多的戰爭的一開始恐怕現在不會是第一顆炸彈可能會是第一個錯假訊息倒是我就像您所說的剛剛我特別提醒的金融漢光演習從金融系統\n\n27\n00:09:14,621 --> 00:09:22,024\n的謠言或者是金融系統的損壞造成社會的動盪就如同每一次我們漢光演習只要演習完之後中共都會幫我們免費出一些認知戰的假想啦比如說會講說漢光演習之後蔡英文就要落跑了啦又或者是說像這一次漢光演習之前就開始放消息說啊這個有內部消息舉出要取消什麼紅金時兵演練啊然後會有一些這個冒充軍職的假訊息出來啊\n\n28\n00:09:43,433 --> 00:09:46,056\n那麼所以說對於漢光演習來講本席在這裡會比較提醒的就是認知戰的補強包括有沒有第一時間有成立這種所謂錯假訊息的反制的機構那這個部分剛剛其實部長已經有回應了\n\n29\n00:10:00,171 --> 00:10:22,122\n那在最後的質詢的時間我只是提醒部長這裡是不是可以把包括金融的面、網路面跟科技面就如您所說的可能還要更高層級來做一個大規模的開會跟演練那麼相關的如果有進度跟報告的話是不是可以來私下跟我們委員會或者是相關的一個部分有些進展讓我們知道\n\n30\n00:10:22,864 --> 00:10:44,785\n就漢光的演習在軍事面這一塊要不要再擴大到全社會防衛是一個可以討論的啦但是這不是國防部應該一個部會可以做成決定的應該還要跨部會來做相關的檢討我想我從國安會出身我理解這個部分的重要性\n\n31\n00:10:45,786 --> 00:10:49,129\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3156\t4322\t謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。請顧部長。\n13123\t36302\t是林委員好部長好我想今天還有非常多的媒體在場您剛進來的時候很多媒體都在針對好像今天有評論報導講說您來委員會備詢然後連參謀總長都一起來了所以說您這個這樣的動作遭受到質疑不過本席看了一下今天其實我們的討論事項的議程就是國防部長率領參謀總長來報告漢光四十號演習嗎\n40305\t55093\t我們也都知道這個國會擴權法案目前復議也失敗了所以是在釋憲當中那麼這是主席所排定的這個議程所以您真的覺得這個議程當中有不適合但是不好意思說嗎還是說其實您覺得是OK的\n57034\t72403\t因為我覺得既然這是議程當中那麼主席會議也要求的話您也就必須要率領這個參謀總長來出席嗎?那麼您個人怎麼來看這個題目?因為我感覺像覺得這個報導從頭到尾都沒有提到一個關鍵就是這樣子如果沒到參謀總長來參謀總長可能藐視國會啊\n75769\t90847\t跟委員報告第一個應該要跟國會來接受到國會來接受質詢的基本上應該還是國防部部長那但是大法官四十四六一號解釋確實有一個所謂列席備詢的一個\n91628\t115014\t規定,那他就是在解釋參謀總長有沒有練習備詢的義務。那我查了461號解釋,他確實有這樣子的一個練習備詢的一個義務存在。但是當然就涉及國防機密的事項,當然就可以不回答。當然我也是如此,就涉及到國家安全的這些機密的這個\n117755\t133526\t事項我們當然都不能夠在這個公開的場合加以回答那所以基於這樣的一個考量那又是涉及到漢光那因為漢光進入實兵驗證之後呢這一個統裁部是由這個參謀總長來負責所以我想我們認為那就就這個主題來講那就請參謀總長來列席備詢\n139997\t159110\t好,謝謝部長清楚的說明,因為我想這個有的時候,這個因果關係還是要搞清楚,如果說是立法院的要求,那麼對於國防委員會的尊重,我相信部長也會依照這個方式來進行溝通。那麼我也不希望說,好像質詢還沒有開始,但是這個參謀總長是不是要來,然後就完全的\n162552\t164275\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n179736\t195726\t本席對於這個你們今天在報告當中特別提到的是接下來會以就是不必要的一種所謂的展示性的這個演習的部分我們就把它盡量的避免或減少但是我想部長你也知道如果以俄烏戰爭的發展連中共的共軍將領都說接下來\n200069\t201170\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n222177\t242535\t這一次有特別將這個認知戰的部分給納入進來那因為認知戰的部分我們現在如果要進一步講是應該講說是一個戰略溝通的機制也就是說他要對內展現國防的防衛作戰力量來建立全民的信心那對外\n243235\t260184\t也要傳達我國建立防衛的決心那爭取國際社會的關注跟支持那對敵要想辦法削弱他們的這個對台動武的決心瓦解敵軍的戰鬥的意志這些等等都會都是在我們這一次這一個陣戰\n263447\t271254\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24\n292165\t297648\t確實如果一旦發出假訊息說這個ATM沒有現金那麼銀行會發生擠兌社會就會進行一種動盪那麼台灣跟中國之間我們知道漢光演習也就是預設預警中國對於台灣的這種侵害戰爭的發動那麼他有可能會不會就從金融因為兩岸之間的金融的交流也是非常頻繁的\n317256\t340697\t那麼我想要就教部長的就是過去因為您曾經也擔過金管會的主委啦所以我會拿這一題來講的原因是因為金融業的部分必須要跟央行跟金管會有做一些溝通跟交流過去我一再提醒的是我在財政委員會要求央行或金管會做這個部分的時候他們的回應當然都是說他們有一些內部的演練跟操練\n342478\t347982\t但是如果以俄烏戰爭來講為什麼在俄烏戰爭底下銀行可以奇蹟似的可以生還系統可以如期的運作那就是他們在2021年底知道俄羅斯有意圖入侵的時候就採取了一些措施包括烏克蘭的央行跟銀行業都有展開過壓力測試所以我在這裡要提醒的是部長有沒有可能考慮\n365256\t387802\t把金融跟網路跟銀行相關的就像您所說的認知作戰已經包含進來的時候有沒有可能進一步的是找央行找金管會甚至於數發部來做一個整體的漢光金融演習的相關的演練不一定放到這一次的四十號的漢光演習但是未來有沒有可能有加入的可能因為\n388882\t400348\t現在的作戰恐怕不是只是我們看到的這些槍、炮、彈藥實體型的傷害式的作戰。金融的傷害其實可能更無形而且更需要關注。\n401139\t415973\t跟委員報告因為我在國安會待過這一個部分我們在國安會的時候就這個相關的涉及到特別是涉及到全社會防衛任性的這一塊我們將各種\n421254\t422035\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n440452\t465632\t也在做相關的一些兵推要做相關的兵推然後另外也要加強他們的金融相關的韌性就我的理解是如此那至於他這個整個部分要不要納入漢光的這個部分因為我們現在有這個明安、萬安、彭新、志強這個部分那還有其他的這個整個的部分在屬於這個權動署他們所規劃的\n470636\t486165\t他們是作為一個秘書單位,現在總統也成立說要成立全民社會防衛委員會,那相關的這樣子的\n491536\t512229\t全社會防衛的這個韌性或者國家韌性的建構是非常重要的一環那我想哪一些部分可以納入到這個漢光的兵推的作為一個演練的一個部分呢這個部分可能我們還要做跨部會的一個協調特別如果涉及到\n513229\t530306\t國安層級的那可能要由國安會那甚至是跟行政院那邊要做一些協調那本部的立場應該是站在要配應該來配合來實施做這樣子的一個演練\n531431\t552460\t好我想因為以部長的經歷啦從金管會到國安會再到現在的這個國防部當中本席會在這裡提出建議跟建言就是很多的戰爭的一開始恐怕現在不會是第一顆炸彈可能會是第一個錯假訊息倒是我就像您所說的剛剛我特別提醒的金融漢光演習從金融系統\n554621\t562024\t的謠言或者是金融系統的損壞造成社會的動盪就如同每一次我們漢光演習只要演習完之後中共都會幫我們免費出一些認知戰的假想啦比如說會講說漢光演習之後蔡英文就要落跑了啦又或者是說像這一次漢光演習之前就開始放消息說啊這個有內部消息舉出要取消什麼紅金時兵演練啊然後會有一些這個冒充軍職的假訊息出來啊\n583433\t586056\t那麼所以說對於漢光演習來講本席在這裡會比較提醒的就是認知戰的補強包括有沒有第一時間有成立這種所謂錯假訊息的反制的機構那這個部分剛剛其實部長已經有回應了\n600171\t622122\t那在最後的質詢的時間我只是提醒部長這裡是不是可以把包括金融的面、網路面跟科技面就如您所說的可能還要更高層級來做一個大規模的開會跟演練那麼相關的如果有進度跟報告的話是不是可以來私下跟我們委員會或者是相關的一個部分有些進展讓我們知道\n622864\t644785\t就漢光的演習在軍事面這一塊要不要再擴大到全社會防衛是一個可以討論的啦但是這不是國防部應該一個部會可以做成決定的應該還要跨部會來做相關的檢討我想我從國安會出身我理解這個部分的重要性\n645786\t649129\t二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n","txt":"謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。請顧部長。\n是林委員好部長好我想今天還有非常多的媒體在場您剛進來的時候很多媒體都在針對好像今天有評論報導講說您來委員會備詢然後連參謀總長都一起來了所以說您這個這樣的動作遭受到質疑不過本席看了一下今天其實我們的討論事項的議程就是國防部長率領參謀總長來報告漢光四十號演習嗎\n我們也都知道這個國會擴權法案目前復議也失敗了所以是在釋憲當中那麼這是主席所排定的這個議程所以您真的覺得這個議程當中有不適合但是不好意思說嗎還是說其實您覺得是OK的\n因為我覺得既然這是議程當中那麼主席會議也要求的話您也就必須要率領這個參謀總長來出席嗎?那麼您個人怎麼來看這個題目?因為我感覺像覺得這個報導從頭到尾都沒有提到一個關鍵就是這樣子如果沒到參謀總長來參謀總長可能藐視國會啊\n跟委員報告第一個應該要跟國會來接受到國會來接受質詢的基本上應該還是國防部部長那但是大法官四十四六一號解釋確實有一個所謂列席備詢的一個\n規定,那他就是在解釋參謀總長有沒有練習備詢的義務。那我查了461號解釋,他確實有這樣子的一個練習備詢的一個義務存在。但是當然就涉及國防機密的事項,當然就可以不回答。當然我也是如此,就涉及到國家安全的這些機密的這個\n事項我們當然都不能夠在這個公開的場合加以回答那所以基於這樣的一個考量那又是涉及到漢光那因為漢光進入實兵驗證之後呢這一個統裁部是由這個參謀總長來負責所以我想我們認為那就就這個主題來講那就請參謀總長來列席備詢\n好,謝謝部長清楚的說明,因為我想這個有的時候,這個因果關係還是要搞清楚,如果說是立法院的要求,那麼對於國防委員會的尊重,我相信部長也會依照這個方式來進行溝通。那麼我也不希望說,好像質詢還沒有開始,但是這個參謀總長是不是要來,然後就完全的\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n本席對於這個你們今天在報告當中特別提到的是接下來會以就是不必要的一種所謂的展示性的這個演習的部分我們就把它盡量的避免或減少但是我想部長你也知道如果以俄烏戰爭的發展連中共的共軍將領都說接下來\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n這一次有特別將這個認知戰的部分給納入進來那因為認知戰的部分我們現在如果要進一步講是應該講說是一個戰略溝通的機制也就是說他要對內展現國防的防衛作戰力量來建立全民的信心那對外\n也要傳達我國建立防衛的決心那爭取國際社會的關注跟支持那對敵要想辦法削弱他們的這個對台動武的決心瓦解敵軍的戰鬥的意志這些等等都會都是在我們這一次這一個陣戰\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24\n確實如果一旦發出假訊息說這個ATM沒有現金那麼銀行會發生擠兌社會就會進行一種動盪那麼台灣跟中國之間我們知道漢光演習也就是預設預警中國對於台灣的這種侵害戰爭的發動那麼他有可能會不會就從金融因為兩岸之間的金融的交流也是非常頻繁的\n那麼我想要就教部長的就是過去因為您曾經也擔過金管會的主委啦所以我會拿這一題來講的原因是因為金融業的部分必須要跟央行跟金管會有做一些溝通跟交流過去我一再提醒的是我在財政委員會要求央行或金管會做這個部分的時候他們的回應當然都是說他們有一些內部的演練跟操練\n但是如果以俄烏戰爭來講為什麼在俄烏戰爭底下銀行可以奇蹟似的可以生還系統可以如期的運作那就是他們在2021年底知道俄羅斯有意圖入侵的時候就採取了一些措施包括烏克蘭的央行跟銀行業都有展開過壓力測試所以我在這裡要提醒的是部長有沒有可能考慮\n把金融跟網路跟銀行相關的就像您所說的認知作戰已經包含進來的時候有沒有可能進一步的是找央行找金管會甚至於數發部來做一個整體的漢光金融演習的相關的演練不一定放到這一次的四十號的漢光演習但是未來有沒有可能有加入的可能因為\n現在的作戰恐怕不是只是我們看到的這些槍、炮、彈藥實體型的傷害式的作戰。金融的傷害其實可能更無形而且更需要關注。\n跟委員報告因為我在國安會待過這一個部分我們在國安會的時候就這個相關的涉及到特別是涉及到全社會防衛任性的這一塊我們將各種\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n也在做相關的一些兵推要做相關的兵推然後另外也要加強他們的金融相關的韌性就我的理解是如此那至於他這個整個部分要不要納入漢光的這個部分因為我們現在有這個明安、萬安、彭新、志強這個部分那還有其他的這個整個的部分在屬於這個權動署他們所規劃的\n他們是作為一個秘書單位,現在總統也成立說要成立全民社會防衛委員會,那相關的這樣子的\n全社會防衛的這個韌性或者國家韌性的建構是非常重要的一環那我想哪一些部分可以納入到這個漢光的兵推的作為一個演練的一個部分呢這個部分可能我們還要做跨部會的一個協調特別如果涉及到\n國安層級的那可能要由國安會那甚至是跟行政院那邊要做一些協調那本部的立場應該是站在要配應該來配合來實施做這樣子的一個演練\n好我想因為以部長的經歷啦從金管會到國安會再到現在的這個國防部當中本席會在這裡提出建議跟建言就是很多的戰爭的一開始恐怕現在不會是第一顆炸彈可能會是第一個錯假訊息倒是我就像您所說的剛剛我特別提醒的金融漢光演習從金融系統\n的謠言或者是金融系統的損壞造成社會的動盪就如同每一次我們漢光演習只要演習完之後中共都會幫我們免費出一些認知戰的假想啦比如說會講說漢光演習之後蔡英文就要落跑了啦又或者是說像這一次漢光演習之前就開始放消息說啊這個有內部消息舉出要取消什麼紅金時兵演練啊然後會有一些這個冒充軍職的假訊息出來啊\n那麼所以說對於漢光演習來講本席在這裡會比較提醒的就是認知戰的補強包括有沒有第一時間有成立這種所謂錯假訊息的反制的機構那這個部分剛剛其實部長已經有回應了\n那在最後的質詢的時間我只是提醒部長這裡是不是可以把包括金融的面、網路面跟科技面就如您所說的可能還要更高層級來做一個大規模的開會跟演練那麼相關的如果有進度跟報告的話是不是可以來私下跟我們委員會或者是相關的一個部分有些進展讓我們知道\n就漢光的演習在軍事面這一塊要不要再擴大到全社會防衛是一個可以討論的啦但是這不是國防部應該一個部會可以做成決定的應該還要跨部會來做相關的檢討我想我從國安會出身我理解這個部分的重要性\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.156 --> 00:04.322\n謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。請顧部長。\n\n00:13.123 --> 00:36.302\n是林委員好部長好我想今天還有非常多的媒體在場您剛進來的時候很多媒體都在針對好像今天有評論報導講說您來委員會備詢然後連參謀總長都一起來了所以說您這個這樣的動作遭受到質疑不過本席看了一下今天其實我們的討論事項的議程就是國防部長率領參謀總長來報告漢光四十號演習嗎\n\n00:40.305 --> 00:55.093\n我們也都知道這個國會擴權法案目前復議也失敗了所以是在釋憲當中那麼這是主席所排定的這個議程所以您真的覺得這個議程當中有不適合但是不好意思說嗎還是說其實您覺得是OK的\n\n00:57.034 --> 01:12.403\n因為我覺得既然這是議程當中那麼主席會議也要求的話您也就必須要率領這個參謀總長來出席嗎?那麼您個人怎麼來看這個題目?因為我感覺像覺得這個報導從頭到尾都沒有提到一個關鍵就是這樣子如果沒到參謀總長來參謀總長可能藐視國會啊\n\n01:15.769 --> 01:30.847\n跟委員報告第一個應該要跟國會來接受到國會來接受質詢的基本上應該還是國防部部長那但是大法官四十四六一號解釋確實有一個所謂列席備詢的一個\n\n01:31.628 --> 01:55.014\n規定,那他就是在解釋參謀總長有沒有練習備詢的義務。那我查了461號解釋,他確實有這樣子的一個練習備詢的一個義務存在。但是當然就涉及國防機密的事項,當然就可以不回答。當然我也是如此,就涉及到國家安全的這些機密的這個\n\n01:57.755 --> 02:13.526\n事項我們當然都不能夠在這個公開的場合加以回答那所以基於這樣的一個考量那又是涉及到漢光那因為漢光進入實兵驗證之後呢這一個統裁部是由這個參謀總長來負責所以我想我們認為那就就這個主題來講那就請參謀總長來列席備詢\n\n02:19.997 --> 02:39.110\n好,謝謝部長清楚的說明,因為我想這個有的時候,這個因果關係還是要搞清楚,如果說是立法院的要求,那麼對於國防委員會的尊重,我相信部長也會依照這個方式來進行溝通。那麼我也不希望說,好像質詢還沒有開始,但是這個參謀總長是不是要來,然後就完全的\n\n02:42.552 --> 02:44.275\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n02:59.736 --> 03:15.726\n本席對於這個你們今天在報告當中特別提到的是接下來會以就是不必要的一種所謂的展示性的這個演習的部分我們就把它盡量的避免或減少但是我想部長你也知道如果以俄烏戰爭的發展連中共的共軍將領都說接下來\n\n03:20.069 --> 03:21.170\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n03:42.177 --> 04:02.535\n這一次有特別將這個認知戰的部分給納入進來那因為認知戰的部分我們現在如果要進一步講是應該講說是一個戰略溝通的機制也就是說他要對內展現國防的防衛作戰力量來建立全民的信心那對外\n\n04:03.235 --> 04:20.184\n也要傳達我國建立防衛的決心那爭取國際社會的關注跟支持那對敵要想辦法削弱他們的這個對台動武的決心瓦解敵軍的戰鬥的意志這些等等都會都是在我們這一次這一個陣戰\n\n04:23.447 --> 04:31.254\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24\n\n04:52.165 --> 04:57.648\n確實如果一旦發出假訊息說這個ATM沒有現金那麼銀行會發生擠兌社會就會進行一種動盪那麼台灣跟中國之間我們知道漢光演習也就是預設預警中國對於台灣的這種侵害戰爭的發動那麼他有可能會不會就從金融因為兩岸之間的金融的交流也是非常頻繁的\n\n05:17.256 --> 05:40.697\n那麼我想要就教部長的就是過去因為您曾經也擔過金管會的主委啦所以我會拿這一題來講的原因是因為金融業的部分必須要跟央行跟金管會有做一些溝通跟交流過去我一再提醒的是我在財政委員會要求央行或金管會做這個部分的時候他們的回應當然都是說他們有一些內部的演練跟操練\n\n05:42.478 --> 05:47.982\n但是如果以俄烏戰爭來講為什麼在俄烏戰爭底下銀行可以奇蹟似的可以生還系統可以如期的運作那就是他們在2021年底知道俄羅斯有意圖入侵的時候就採取了一些措施包括烏克蘭的央行跟銀行業都有展開過壓力測試所以我在這裡要提醒的是部長有沒有可能考慮\n\n06:05.256 --> 06:27.802\n把金融跟網路跟銀行相關的就像您所說的認知作戰已經包含進來的時候有沒有可能進一步的是找央行找金管會甚至於數發部來做一個整體的漢光金融演習的相關的演練不一定放到這一次的四十號的漢光演習但是未來有沒有可能有加入的可能因為\n\n06:28.882 --> 06:40.348\n現在的作戰恐怕不是只是我們看到的這些槍、炮、彈藥實體型的傷害式的作戰。金融的傷害其實可能更無形而且更需要關注。\n\n06:41.139 --> 06:55.973\n跟委員報告因為我在國安會待過這一個部分我們在國安會的時候就這個相關的涉及到特別是涉及到全社會防衛任性的這一塊我們將各種\n\n07:01.254 --> 07:02.035\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n07:20.452 --> 07:45.632\n也在做相關的一些兵推要做相關的兵推然後另外也要加強他們的金融相關的韌性就我的理解是如此那至於他這個整個部分要不要納入漢光的這個部分因為我們現在有這個明安、萬安、彭新、志強這個部分那還有其他的這個整個的部分在屬於這個權動署他們所規劃的\n\n07:50.636 --> 08:06.165\n他們是作為一個秘書單位,現在總統也成立說要成立全民社會防衛委員會,那相關的這樣子的\n\n08:11.536 --> 08:32.229\n全社會防衛的這個韌性或者國家韌性的建構是非常重要的一環那我想哪一些部分可以納入到這個漢光的兵推的作為一個演練的一個部分呢這個部分可能我們還要做跨部會的一個協調特別如果涉及到\n\n08:33.229 --> 08:50.306\n國安層級的那可能要由國安會那甚至是跟行政院那邊要做一些協調那本部的立場應該是站在要配應該來配合來實施做這樣子的一個演練\n\n08:51.431 --> 09:12.460\n好我想因為以部長的經歷啦從金管會到國安會再到現在的這個國防部當中本席會在這裡提出建議跟建言就是很多的戰爭的一開始恐怕現在不會是第一顆炸彈可能會是第一個錯假訊息倒是我就像您所說的剛剛我特別提醒的金融漢光演習從金融系統\n\n09:14.621 --> 09:22.024\n的謠言或者是金融系統的損壞造成社會的動盪就如同每一次我們漢光演習只要演習完之後中共都會幫我們免費出一些認知戰的假想啦比如說會講說漢光演習之後蔡英文就要落跑了啦又或者是說像這一次漢光演習之前就開始放消息說啊這個有內部消息舉出要取消什麼紅金時兵演練啊然後會有一些這個冒充軍職的假訊息出來啊\n\n09:43.433 --> 09:46.056\n那麼所以說對於漢光演習來講本席在這裡會比較提醒的就是認知戰的補強包括有沒有第一時間有成立這種所謂錯假訊息的反制的機構那這個部分剛剛其實部長已經有回應了\n\n10:00.171 --> 10:22.122\n那在最後的質詢的時間我只是提醒部長這裡是不是可以把包括金融的面、網路面跟科技面就如您所說的可能還要更高層級來做一個大規模的開會跟演練那麼相關的如果有進度跟報告的話是不是可以來私下跟我們委員會或者是相關的一個部分有些進展讓我們知道\n\n10:22.864 --> 10:44.785\n就漢光的演習在軍事面這一塊要不要再擴大到全社會防衛是一個可以討論的啦但是這不是國防部應該一個部會可以做成決定的應該還要跨部會來做相關的檢討我想我從國安會出身我理解這個部分的重要性\n\n10:45.786 --> 10:49.129\n二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.156,"end":4.322,"text":"謝謝主席。主席有請顧部長。請顧部長。"},{"start":13.123,"end":36.302,"text":"是林委員好部長好我想今天還有非常多的媒體在場您剛進來的時候很多媒體都在針對好像今天有評論報導講說您來委員會備詢然後連參謀總長都一起來了所以說您這個這樣的動作遭受到質疑不過本席看了一下今天其實我們的討論事項的議程就是國防部長率領參謀總長來報告漢光四十號演習嗎"},{"start":40.305,"end":55.093,"text":"我們也都知道這個國會擴權法案目前復議也失敗了所以是在釋憲當中那麼這是主席所排定的這個議程所以您真的覺得這個議程當中有不適合但是不好意思說嗎還是說其實您覺得是OK的"},{"start":57.034,"end":72.403,"text":"因為我覺得既然這是議程當中那麼主席會議也要求的話您也就必須要率領這個參謀總長來出席嗎?那麼您個人怎麼來看這個題目?因為我感覺像覺得這個報導從頭到尾都沒有提到一個關鍵就是這樣子如果沒到參謀總長來參謀總長可能藐視國會啊"},{"start":75.769,"end":90.847,"text":"跟委員報告第一個應該要跟國會來接受到國會來接受質詢的基本上應該還是國防部部長那但是大法官四十四六一號解釋確實有一個所謂列席備詢的一個"},{"start":91.628,"end":115.014,"text":"規定,那他就是在解釋參謀總長有沒有練習備詢的義務。那我查了461號解釋,他確實有這樣子的一個練習備詢的一個義務存在。但是當然就涉及國防機密的事項,當然就可以不回答。當然我也是如此,就涉及到國家安全的這些機密的這個"},{"start":117.755,"end":133.526,"text":"事項我們當然都不能夠在這個公開的場合加以回答那所以基於這樣的一個考量那又是涉及到漢光那因為漢光進入實兵驗證之後呢這一個統裁部是由這個參謀總長來負責所以我想我們認為那就就這個主題來講那就請參謀總長來列席備詢"},{"start":139.997,"end":159.11,"text":"好,謝謝部長清楚的說明,因為我想這個有的時候,這個因果關係還是要搞清楚,如果說是立法院的要求,那麼對於國防委員會的尊重,我相信部長也會依照這個方式來進行溝通。那麼我也不希望說,好像質詢還沒有開始,但是這個參謀總長是不是要來,然後就完全的"},{"start":162.552,"end":164.275,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":179.736,"end":195.726,"text":"本席對於這個你們今天在報告當中特別提到的是接下來會以就是不必要的一種所謂的展示性的這個演習的部分我們就把它盡量的避免或減少但是我想部長你也知道如果以俄烏戰爭的發展連中共的共軍將領都說接下來"},{"start":200.069,"end":201.17,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":222.177,"end":242.535,"text":"這一次有特別將這個認知戰的部分給納入進來那因為認知戰的部分我們現在如果要進一步講是應該講說是一個戰略溝通的機制也就是說他要對內展現國防的防衛作戰力量來建立全民的信心那對外"},{"start":243.235,"end":260.184,"text":"也要傳達我國建立防衛的決心那爭取國際社會的關注跟支持那對敵要想辦法削弱他們的這個對台動武的決心瓦解敵軍的戰鬥的意志這些等等都會都是在我們這一次這一個陣戰"},{"start":263.447,"end":271.254,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24"},{"start":292.165,"end":297.648,"text":"確實如果一旦發出假訊息說這個ATM沒有現金那麼銀行會發生擠兌社會就會進行一種動盪那麼台灣跟中國之間我們知道漢光演習也就是預設預警中國對於台灣的這種侵害戰爭的發動那麼他有可能會不會就從金融因為兩岸之間的金融的交流也是非常頻繁的"},{"start":317.256,"end":340.697,"text":"那麼我想要就教部長的就是過去因為您曾經也擔過金管會的主委啦所以我會拿這一題來講的原因是因為金融業的部分必須要跟央行跟金管會有做一些溝通跟交流過去我一再提醒的是我在財政委員會要求央行或金管會做這個部分的時候他們的回應當然都是說他們有一些內部的演練跟操練"},{"start":342.478,"end":347.982,"text":"但是如果以俄烏戰爭來講為什麼在俄烏戰爭底下銀行可以奇蹟似的可以生還系統可以如期的運作那就是他們在2021年底知道俄羅斯有意圖入侵的時候就採取了一些措施包括烏克蘭的央行跟銀行業都有展開過壓力測試所以我在這裡要提醒的是部長有沒有可能考慮"},{"start":365.256,"end":387.802,"text":"把金融跟網路跟銀行相關的就像您所說的認知作戰已經包含進來的時候有沒有可能進一步的是找央行找金管會甚至於數發部來做一個整體的漢光金融演習的相關的演練不一定放到這一次的四十號的漢光演習但是未來有沒有可能有加入的可能因為"},{"start":388.882,"end":400.348,"text":"現在的作戰恐怕不是只是我們看到的這些槍、炮、彈藥實體型的傷害式的作戰。金融的傷害其實可能更無形而且更需要關注。"},{"start":401.139,"end":415.973,"text":"跟委員報告因為我在國安會待過這一個部分我們在國安會的時候就這個相關的涉及到特別是涉及到全社會防衛任性的這一塊我們將各種"},{"start":421.254,"end":422.035,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":440.452,"end":465.632,"text":"也在做相關的一些兵推要做相關的兵推然後另外也要加強他們的金融相關的韌性就我的理解是如此那至於他這個整個部分要不要納入漢光的這個部分因為我們現在有這個明安、萬安、彭新、志強這個部分那還有其他的這個整個的部分在屬於這個權動署他們所規劃的"},{"start":470.636,"end":486.165,"text":"他們是作為一個秘書單位,現在總統也成立說要成立全民社會防衛委員會,那相關的這樣子的"},{"start":491.536,"end":512.229,"text":"全社會防衛的這個韌性或者國家韌性的建構是非常重要的一環那我想哪一些部分可以納入到這個漢光的兵推的作為一個演練的一個部分呢這個部分可能我們還要做跨部會的一個協調特別如果涉及到"},{"start":513.229,"end":530.306,"text":"國安層級的那可能要由國安會那甚至是跟行政院那邊要做一些協調那本部的立場應該是站在要配應該來配合來實施做這樣子的一個演練"},{"start":531.431,"end":552.46,"text":"好我想因為以部長的經歷啦從金管會到國安會再到現在的這個國防部當中本席會在這裡提出建議跟建言就是很多的戰爭的一開始恐怕現在不會是第一顆炸彈可能會是第一個錯假訊息倒是我就像您所說的剛剛我特別提醒的金融漢光演習從金融系統"},{"start":554.621,"end":562.024,"text":"的謠言或者是金融系統的損壞造成社會的動盪就如同每一次我們漢光演習只要演習完之後中共都會幫我們免費出一些認知戰的假想啦比如說會講說漢光演習之後蔡英文就要落跑了啦又或者是說像這一次漢光演習之前就開始放消息說啊這個有內部消息舉出要取消什麼紅金時兵演練啊然後會有一些這個冒充軍職的假訊息出來啊"},{"start":583.433,"end":586.056,"text":"那麼所以說對於漢光演習來講本席在這裡會比較提醒的就是認知戰的補強包括有沒有第一時間有成立這種所謂錯假訊息的反制的機構那這個部分剛剛其實部長已經有回應了"},{"start":600.171,"end":622.122,"text":"那在最後的質詢的時間我只是提醒部長這裡是不是可以把包括金融的面、網路面跟科技面就如您所說的可能還要更高層級來做一個大規模的開會跟演練那麼相關的如果有進度跟報告的話是不是可以來私下跟我們委員會或者是相關的一個部分有些進展讓我們知道"},{"start":622.864,"end":644.785,"text":"就漢光的演習在軍事面這一塊要不要再擴大到全社會防衛是一個可以討論的啦但是這不是國防部應該一個部會可以做成決定的應該還要跨部會來做相關的檢討我想我從國安會出身我理解這個部分的重要性"},{"start":645.786,"end":649.129,"text":"二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2二、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"}]}}}}