{"id":154232,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154232","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd10fda8c764a90cdcf08df44dd9bf560a2ee23585586e40b3af0a2f51fd5bd8c715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"10:14:42 - 10:26:24","影片長度":"00:11:42","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議、本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人、委員顏寬恒等20人分別擬具「所得稅法部分條文修正草案」等3案。\n【6月26日及27日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:14:42+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:26:24+08:00","duration":702,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":398,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時14分）謝謝召委，我可不可以請部長？"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長好，我相信這段時間，無論是媒體、平面，大家都在討論新青安政策，剛才寬恒委員同樣地也是就新青安政策在做持續地討論。但是房價愈打愈高，這個數字擺在那邊，這是事實，雖然前一陣子央行升息為了抑制通膨，也希望藉這個機會可以打一點房價，不要讓房價愈打愈高，但是事實呈現出來的結果，大家都把房價愈打愈高歸咎在你的新青安政策，你覺得是這樣嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告……"],["李委員彥秀：你個人感受是這樣嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我個人不這麼全然認為，第一個，房屋價格波動的因素相當眾多，譬如說股市的熱絡、資金的充沛，還有市場的利率，還有地區產業的發展……"],["李委員彥秀：我同意，部長，你剛剛講的幾件事……"],["莊部長翠雲：還有公共建設的到位，我想這種因素是非常多的。"],["李委員彥秀：我同意啦，因為前幾天我質詢的時候，我也講說其實股市很好，大家口袋的錢比較多，臺灣熱錢也不少，所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上，但是相對地，政府的政策工具是什麼？當然，你不能說全然沒有關係，你也絕對是逃不掉的，你大概也同意我的說法……"],["莊部長翠雲：不能說「全然」沒有關係。"],["李委員彥秀：歸咎幾大原因，新青安政策確實也是……我們政府本來抑制房價，但是你的這個政策……當然我們政策的目標不是這樣，但是呈現出來的結果，它也是其中的原因之一。我們就來看，3月份的時候，政府到目前為止，新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶，核准的金額達到1.9兆。2月份將近有4,000戶申請新青安，3月份有6,440戶，4月份有6,879戶，到5月份越來越高，就是說目前新青安政策，我們對外好像工具手段不斷地丟出來，但是申請的人越來越多，有8,476戶，達到了635.9億，創下新高。部長，6月份到目前為止總共有多少新青安？6月部分的數字還是很高嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，您剛剛提的42萬戶或者45萬戶，還有金額1兆8,000億，是算99年……因為青安貸款從99年12月就開始了，所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億，可是目前貸款餘額是8,996億。換言之，青年朋友們貸了青安貸款以後，他其實也一直在還，換言之也還了一兆多，新青安是去年8月1號開始……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，借了錢當然要還，這不是我的重點，我現在只是問你說，我們6月份申請的戶數跟金額有多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，到6月份這邊我沒有統計數字，5月份有數字，也就是各月份……"],["李委員彥秀：5月份的我有，6月份是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：6月份我目前手上還沒有統計。"],["李委員彥秀：來，誰可以告訴我？你們這兩天不是行政院在跨部會討論嗎？你們有沒有數字跟趨勢嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這樣好不好？因為今天……我們到月底才會做統計。"],["李委員彥秀：今天沒有數字？"],["莊部長翠雲：今天沒有數據，我們會後再提供給委員。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我為什麼要問6月份？我問 6月份有我的目的，就是我們現在對新青安政策已經在檢討，對外看起來也有一些措施要做，無論是……如果最後你又轉租了，我要降低成數，包括你的年限要提早還，我們已有工具出來，但為什麼我說要看6月份？我要看6月份這些新聞露出之後，新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少？那你如果告訴我說你不知道，那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼？部長，你懂我的用意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我懂委員的用意，委員，你現在是說6月以後有沒有少一點，是不是？"],["李委員彥秀：所以你現在跟我講，你不知道這個數字，你可以提供給我沒有問題，但是我覺得……"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，我們是不是會後馬上統計，然後提供出來？"],["李委員彥秀：部長，我知道，我沒有要跟你吵架，因為我現在要跟你答詢，我是說，從這個趨勢就可以看出來，現在丟在媒體上的這些政策工具，讓不應該申請新青安的人會不會稍微停看聽一點？如果你手邊沒有，我就在想說，你行政院現在在跨部會協調，是在協調什麼東西？所以這個是我的疑問。","接下來，其實我要講的就是，政府的政策丟出來，我們當時是要處理居住正義，讓年輕人買得起房，這個政策我也支持，但是沒有跨部會討論的結果，我覺得就是呈現這樣子，我們後面反而就是……你如果轉租，我後面就相對地要有罰款、罰則出來，甚至是貸款年限要減低，我覺得那個政策的反覆就會造成一定的影響。","另外一個就是現在出租房的部分，我們也可以看到出租房以110年為基準的話，現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高。過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高，我們現在達到更高，不僅房價越來越高，租金也越來越高，達到106.22%，這個是跟110年為基準來做比較。所以我要提的就是，我們希望買到合理價格的房子，在出租的部分，對於年輕人來說，房子買不起，總要讓他們租金租得起吧，但是現在看起來，這兩個部分我們政府都沒有做得很好，這個是我要批評、批判的地方。","租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面，包含包租代管是我長期關注的，就是我們蓋社宅，土地的取得、時間的年限都可能緩不濟急，也沒有辦法落實賴清德的政策，這個政策我也支持，我也希望他可以做得成功、做得好，但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高。所以我常在提的，包括包租代管的政策也是，部長，你上次給我的回答，包括我後來收到書面回應，其實我是不滿意的，因為我有計算過，以我們目前1萬5,000元的免稅額包租代管，目前申請包租代管的戶數大概是10萬6,000戶，免稅額是1萬5,000元，我們的稅損差不多是1億，我看過那個級距，如果免稅額調到2萬5,000塊錢，另外受惠的戶數只有4萬3,000戶，你有沒有計算出來它的稅損到底差多少？但是願意加入包租代管的戶數可能會大大增加很多，這個也達到賴清德所希望的居住正義，現在房價越來越高，但是至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人、有更多的房東願意加入包租代管的政策，這就是另外一個我要質詢的重點。所以我要請問你，如果調到2萬5,000塊的免稅額，受惠的戶數到底有多少？稅損到底有多少？因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多，你沒有一個數字給我，你真的無法說服我，你跟我講說稅損會增加1億，那我就會去問賴清德、我就會去問卓榮泰，如果可以增加2萬戶的房東願意投入包租代管，稅損1億你願不願意去承受？這就是另外一個問題嘛！這就是政府的選擇嘛！到底是1億的稅損重要，還是有1萬戶或者是10萬戶或5萬戶願意加入包租代管政策重要？這就是一個選擇題嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。謝謝委員對住宅政策的關注，對於住宅的提供，除了社會住宅要努力興建之外，還有包租代管及公益出租人來增加租賃市場……"],["李委員彥秀：你直接回答，我剩下1分50秒。"],["莊部長翠雲：剛剛您提的就是1萬5,000塊可不可以提高到2萬5,000塊……"],["李委員彥秀：稅損到底會增加多少？有多少戶數？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，除了我覺得稅損是一個考量之外，一個房東……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，這個問題我問了兩、三次，我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算、計算，這個事情不是壞事，你也知道，不是我個人要什麼credit，而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義，包租代管的量可以增加，全國都可以增加，你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我如果投入4萬3,000戶的包租代管，稅損到底是多少？因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損，那麼稅損到底是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，公益出租人也好、包租代管也好，不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5調高，免稅額調高到2.5萬……"],["李委員彥秀：這個就是房東願不願意加入，這就是鼓勵誘因，這就是誘因嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：能不能容我說明？也就是說，除了所得稅之外，他的房屋稅、地價稅都適用自用住宅，而不適用一般的所謂出租住宅的稅率，所以不是只有所得稅；再其次，你讓房東要課的房屋租金所得一直拉高，相對地，房客他卻要課比較重，到底在經濟上誰是比較弱勢？然後讓房東的租金收入可以去做免稅，這在社會的公平上，我們也要同步去考量的。"],["李委員彥秀：那你現在是說包租代管的政策1萬5,000也不合理？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，這1萬5,000當時我們其實有考慮過，六都租金是做一個適度的減免，我想這個叫做適度。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，加入包租代管的免稅額也是你們提出來的，我提出來只是說全國的房租因為地價的關係不太一樣，我希望全國都有更多的誘因加入你包租代管的政策，至於決策上怎麼做，我覺得要跨部會去協調，但是我非常遺憾的是，這是一個可以幫助賴清德落實我們社會住宅的政策，也讓工具可以更多，但是我在這邊苦口婆心講了這麼久，顯然地你沒有辦法回答我的問題，我每次在這邊質詢就是狗吠火車……"],["莊部長翠雲：您不要這麼說，您的意見我們都非常重視。"],["李委員彥秀：然後你連想都不想，你連到底會增加多少稅損、連精算都沒有去精算，所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真，你也都在敷衍我，我對這個事情非常不滿意。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我想沒有這樣的情形，跟委員說明，沒有這樣的情形。"],["李委員彥秀：我絕對不是情緒性的發言……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，瞭解。"],["李委員彥秀：而是我覺得這是一個好的政策，可以達到讓社會住宅多多提供出來，政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢，我希望它可以蓋得很快，但沒有辦法，年輕人買不起房，至少也可以租得起房，這是一個誘因，讓房東把房子丟出來。不過你回答我什麼，這都是你的工具、政策，就是你們決定要怎麼做，我只看效果、結果出來到底是怎麼樣，有沒有房東因為你的政策丟出更多房子出來、加入包租代管，達到居住正義。但是我非常遺憾的是，我在這邊質詢第二次還是第三次，你現在都沒有辦法回復我稅損到底會增加多少，以及可以增加多少的社會住宅投入出租行列，我覺得你們根本就不認真。"],["主席（賴委員惠員代）：謝謝彥秀委員。","接著請郭召委國文。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-19","speakers":["郭國文","顏寬恒","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","李彥秀","羅明才","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 674.226, \"end\": 674.406, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 674.406, \"end\": 674.586, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 674.586, \"end\": 675.126, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 675.126, \"end\": 675.146, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:00,109\n李彥秀\n\n2\n00:00:15,049 --> 00:00:40,407\n越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:42,037 --> 00:00:44,358\n委員報告我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實\n\n4\n00:01:04,725 --> 00:01:25,026\n大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法\n\n5\n00:01:29,070 --> 00:01:47,369\n規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的它也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶\n\n6\n00:01:49,211 --> 00:01:55,315\n合準金額1.9兆元,2月將近4000戶申請新青安,3月6440戶,4月6879戶,5月越來越高,目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來,但是申請人越來越多,8476戶。\n\n7\n00:02:12,245 --> 00:02:29,377\n達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年\n\n8\n00:02:30,698 --> 00:02:57,475\n秦安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之今年朋友們貸了秦安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新秦安是去年八月一號開始當然要還這不是我的重點我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟\n\n9\n00:02:59,056 --> 00:02:59,116\n李彥秀\n\n10\n00:03:24,091 --> 00:03:49,104\n我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少\n\n11\n00:03:50,285 --> 00:03:59,277\n那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼?部長你懂我的用意嗎?委員的用意所以你現在跟我講說你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得\n\n12\n00:04:06,445 --> 00:04:25,733\n會後馬上統計,然後提供出來我知道,我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說\n\n13\n00:04:32,836 --> 00:05:01,496\n政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來甚至是貸款年限要減低就是說我覺得那個政策反覆就會造成一定的影響\n\n14\n00:05:02,376 --> 00:05:12,483\n另外一個就是我們現在的出租房的部分我們也可以看到出租房在以110年為基準的話我們現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達到106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較\n\n15\n00:05:29,755 --> 00:05:29,836\n李彥秀\n\n16\n00:05:41,949 --> 00:05:59,106\n租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批判的地方租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租貸款是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅\n\n17\n00:06:01,508 --> 00:06:21,997\n土地的取得、時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清流的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租貸款的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應其實我是不滿意的\n\n18\n00:06:24,378 --> 00:06:31,062\n因為我有計算過就是說以我們目前一萬五的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概十萬六千戶免稅額是一萬五我們稅損差不多是一億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到兩萬五千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有四萬三千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少\n\n19\n00:06:52,034 --> 00:07:21,454\n但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少\n\n20\n00:07:22,655 --> 00:07:44,157\n那你稅損到底有多大?因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多。你沒有一個數字給我,你真的無法說服我。所以你就跟我講說稅損會增加一億。那我就會去問賴清德,我就會去問卓榮泰。我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個房東願意投入包租代管,那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受?\n\n21\n00:07:45,842 --> 00:07:53,393\n這就是另外一個問題嘛這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要這就是一個選擇題嘛\n\n22\n00:08:01,385 --> 00:08:11,720\n謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五\n\n23\n00:08:18,469 --> 00:08:41,610\n一個稅損除了是一個稅損我覺得這個是一個考量部長我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算計算這個事情不是壞事你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義包住代管跟量可以增加全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我\n\n24\n00:08:42,170 --> 00:08:43,413\n如果投入4萬3千戶的這個包租貸款稅損到底多少?因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損稅損到底是多少?\n\n25\n00:08:53,499 --> 00:09:19,024\n委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高,免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啊!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要\n\n26\n00:09:20,384 --> 00:09:20,424\n﹚李彥秀\n\n27\n00:09:37,850 --> 00:09:48,297\n那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有在一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的我提出來只是說全國的\n\n28\n00:09:53,761 --> 00:09:53,801\n李彥秀\n\n29\n00:10:19,672 --> 00:10:38,581\n顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策\n\n30\n00:10:45,344 --> 00:10:58,554\n可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼都都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管\n\n31\n00:11:14,226 --> 00:11:15,146\n主席,一樣有請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t109\t李彥秀\n15049\t40407\t越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?\n42037\t44358\t委員報告我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實\n64725\t85026\t大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法\n89070\t107369\t規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的它也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶\n109211\t115315\t合準金額1.9兆元,2月將近4000戶申請新青安,3月6440戶,4月6879戶,5月越來越高,目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來,但是申請人越來越多,8476戶。\n132245\t149377\t達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年\n150698\t177475\t秦安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之今年朋友們貸了秦安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新秦安是去年八月一號開始當然要還這不是我的重點我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟\n179056\t179116\t李彥秀\n204091\t229104\t我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少\n230285\t239277\t那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼?部長你懂我的用意嗎?委員的用意所以你現在跟我講說你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得\n246445\t265733\t會後馬上統計,然後提供出來我知道,我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說\n272836\t301496\t政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來甚至是貸款年限要減低就是說我覺得那個政策反覆就會造成一定的影響\n302376\t312483\t另外一個就是我們現在的出租房的部分我們也可以看到出租房在以110年為基準的話我們現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達到106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較\n329755\t329836\t李彥秀\n341949\t359106\t租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批判的地方租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租貸款是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅\n361508\t381997\t土地的取得、時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清流的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租貸款的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應其實我是不滿意的\n384378\t391062\t因為我有計算過就是說以我們目前一萬五的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概十萬六千戶免稅額是一萬五我們稅損差不多是一億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到兩萬五千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有四萬三千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少\n412034\t441454\t但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少\n442655\t464157\t那你稅損到底有多大?因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多。你沒有一個數字給我,你真的無法說服我。所以你就跟我講說稅損會增加一億。那我就會去問賴清德,我就會去問卓榮泰。我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個房東願意投入包租代管,那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受?\n465842\t473393\t這就是另外一個問題嘛 這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要 這就是一個選擇題嘛\n481385\t491720\t謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五\n498469\t521610\t一個稅損除了是一個稅損我覺得這個是一個考量部長我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算計算這個事情不是壞事你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義包住代管跟量可以增加全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我\n522170\t523413\t如果投入4萬3千戶的這個包租貸款稅損到底多少?因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損稅損到底是多少?\n533499\t559024\t委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高,免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啊!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要\n560384\t560424\t﹚李彥秀\n577850\t588297\t那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有在一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的我提出來只是說全國的\n593761\t593801\t李彥秀\n619672\t638581\t顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策\n645344\t658554\t可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼都都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管\n674226\t675146\t主席,一樣有請\n","txt":"李彥秀\n越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?\n委員報告我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實\n大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法\n規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的它也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶\n合準金額1.9兆元,2月將近4000戶申請新青安,3月6440戶,4月6879戶,5月越來越高,目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來,但是申請人越來越多,8476戶。\n達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年\n秦安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之今年朋友們貸了秦安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新秦安是去年八月一號開始當然要還這不是我的重點我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟\n李彥秀\n我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少\n那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼?部長你懂我的用意嗎?委員的用意所以你現在跟我講說你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得\n會後馬上統計,然後提供出來我知道,我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說\n政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來甚至是貸款年限要減低就是說我覺得那個政策反覆就會造成一定的影響\n另外一個就是我們現在的出租房的部分我們也可以看到出租房在以110年為基準的話我們現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達到106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較\n李彥秀\n租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批判的地方租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租貸款是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅\n土地的取得、時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清流的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租貸款的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應其實我是不滿意的\n因為我有計算過就是說以我們目前一萬五的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概十萬六千戶免稅額是一萬五我們稅損差不多是一億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到兩萬五千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有四萬三千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少\n但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少\n那你稅損到底有多大?因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多。你沒有一個數字給我,你真的無法說服我。所以你就跟我講說稅損會增加一億。那我就會去問賴清德,我就會去問卓榮泰。我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個房東願意投入包租代管,那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受?\n這就是另外一個問題嘛 這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要 這就是一個選擇題嘛\n謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五\n一個稅損除了是一個稅損我覺得這個是一個考量部長我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算計算這個事情不是壞事你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義包住代管跟量可以增加全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我\n如果投入4萬3千戶的這個包租貸款稅損到底多少?因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損稅損到底是多少?\n委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高,免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啊!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要\n﹚李彥秀\n那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有在一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的我提出來只是說全國的\n李彥秀\n顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策\n可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼都都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管\n主席,一樣有請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:00.109\n李彥秀\n\n00:15.049 --> 00:40.407\n越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?\n\n00:42.037 --> 00:44.358\n委員報告我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實\n\n01:04.725 --> 01:25.026\n大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法\n\n01:29.070 --> 01:47.369\n規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的它也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶\n\n01:49.211 --> 01:55.315\n合準金額1.9兆元,2月將近4000戶申請新青安,3月6440戶,4月6879戶,5月越來越高,目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來,但是申請人越來越多,8476戶。\n\n02:12.245 --> 02:29.377\n達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年\n\n02:30.698 --> 02:57.475\n秦安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之今年朋友們貸了秦安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新秦安是去年八月一號開始當然要還這不是我的重點我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟\n\n02:59.056 --> 02:59.116\n李彥秀\n\n03:24.091 --> 03:49.104\n我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少\n\n03:50.285 --> 03:59.277\n那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼?部長你懂我的用意嗎?委員的用意所以你現在跟我講說你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得\n\n04:06.445 --> 04:25.733\n會後馬上統計,然後提供出來我知道,我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說\n\n04:32.836 --> 05:01.496\n政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來甚至是貸款年限要減低就是說我覺得那個政策反覆就會造成一定的影響\n\n05:02.376 --> 05:12.483\n另外一個就是我們現在的出租房的部分我們也可以看到出租房在以110年為基準的話我們現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達到106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較\n\n05:29.755 --> 05:29.836\n李彥秀\n\n05:41.949 --> 05:59.106\n租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批判的地方租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租貸款是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅\n\n06:01.508 --> 06:21.997\n土地的取得、時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清流的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租貸款的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應其實我是不滿意的\n\n06:24.378 --> 06:31.062\n因為我有計算過就是說以我們目前一萬五的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概十萬六千戶免稅額是一萬五我們稅損差不多是一億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到兩萬五千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有四萬三千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少\n\n06:52.034 --> 07:21.454\n但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少\n\n07:22.655 --> 07:44.157\n那你稅損到底有多大?因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多。你沒有一個數字給我,你真的無法說服我。所以你就跟我講說稅損會增加一億。那我就會去問賴清德,我就會去問卓榮泰。我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個房東願意投入包租代管,那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受?\n\n07:45.842 --> 07:53.393\n這就是另外一個問題嘛這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要這就是一個選擇題嘛\n\n08:01.385 --> 08:11.720\n謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五\n\n08:18.469 --> 08:41.610\n一個稅損除了是一個稅損我覺得這個是一個考量部長我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算計算這個事情不是壞事你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義包住代管跟量可以增加全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我\n\n08:42.170 --> 08:43.413\n如果投入4萬3千戶的這個包租貸款稅損到底多少?因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損稅損到底是多少?\n\n08:53.499 --> 09:19.024\n委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高,免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啊!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要\n\n09:20.384 --> 09:20.424\n﹚李彥秀\n\n09:37.850 --> 09:48.297\n那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有在一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的我提出來只是說全國的\n\n09:53.761 --> 09:53.801\n李彥秀\n\n10:19.672 --> 10:38.581\n顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策\n\n10:45.344 --> 10:58.554\n可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼都都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管\n\n11:14.226 --> 11:15.146\n主席,一樣有請\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":0.109,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":15.049,"end":40.407,"text":"越打越高這個數字擺在那邊這是事實雖然央行前陣子通膨央行升息為了抑制通膨那也希望藉這個機會房價可以打一點房價不要讓房價越打越高但是事實呈現出來的結果大家都把房價越打越高歸咎在你的新清安政策你覺得是這樣嗎?"},{"start":42.037,"end":44.358,"text":"委員報告我個人不這麼全然認為第一個就是說房屋價格的一個波動的因素相當眾多比如說股市的熱絡資金的充沛還有市場利率還有地區產業的發展我同意啦因為前幾天我質詢那個時候我也講說其實"},{"start":64.725,"end":85.026,"text":"大家股市很好大家錢很口袋很多錢比較多那台灣熱錢也不少所以大家會把投資標的物放在一個未來看漲的標的物上但是相對的政府的工具政策是什麼當然你不能說全然沒有關係啊你也絕對是逃不逃不掉啦你大家同意我的說法"},{"start":89.07,"end":107.369,"text":"規舊幾大原因新青安政策確實也是我們政府本來意識房價但是你的這個政策當然我們政策的目標不是這樣但是結果呈現出來的它也是其中原因之一那我們就來看3月份的時候我們就看了政府到目前為止新青安政策已經核准了42萬戶"},{"start":109.211,"end":115.315,"text":"合準金額1.9兆元,2月將近4000戶申請新青安,3月6440戶,4月6879戶,5月越來越高,目前我們對外好像工具手段不斷的丟出來,但是申請人越來越多,8476戶。"},{"start":132.245,"end":149.377,"text":"達到了635.9億創下新高部長6月份到目前為止總共有多少新清案6月份的部分數字還是很高嗎跟委員報告您剛剛提的42萬戶或者40萬戶還有金額1兆8千億是算99年"},{"start":150.698,"end":177.475,"text":"秦安貸款從99年12月就開始了所以累積到現在總共是一兆八千多億可是目前貸款餘額是八千九百九十六億換言之今年朋友們貸了秦安貸款以後他其實也一直在還換言之就還了一兆多那新秦安是去年八月一號開始當然要還這不是我的重點我現在只是問你說六月份我們六月份申請的戶數跟"},{"start":179.056,"end":179.116,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":204.091,"end":229.104,"text":"我問6月份有我的目的就是我們現在對新青安政策我們已經在檢討也對外看起來有一些措施要做無論是你如果最後你又轉租了我要降低成數啦包括你的年薪提早還啦我們有工具出來為什麼要說要看6月份我要看6月份我們這些新聞露出之後新青安申請的戶數有沒有減少"},{"start":230.285,"end":239.277,"text":"那你如果告訴我說你不知道那這幾天到底行政院在討論什麼?部長你懂我的用意嗎?委員的用意所以你現在跟我講說你不知道這個數字你可以提供給我沒有問題但是我覺得"},{"start":246.445,"end":265.733,"text":"會後馬上統計,然後提供出來我知道,我沒有要跟你吵架因為我現在跟你答詢我是說這個趨勢就可以看出來我現在丟在媒體上這些政策工具讓不應該升起親親安的人他會不會稍微停看聽一點那如果你手邊沒有我就在想說你行政院現在在跨部會協調你是在協調什麼東西所以這個是我的疑問那接下來其實我要講的就是說"},{"start":272.836,"end":301.496,"text":"政府的政策就是說丟出來我們當時是要處理居住正義讓年輕人買得起房這個政策我也支持但是沒有跨部會討論的結果我覺得就是呈現這樣子就是說我們後面反而就是我們要我們你如果轉租我後面我就要罰我有相對的罰款罰則出來甚至是貸款年限要減低就是說我覺得那個政策反覆就會造成一定的影響"},{"start":302.376,"end":312.483,"text":"另外一個就是我們現在的出租房的部分我們也可以看到出租房在以110年為基準的話我們現在租金的指數達到過去34個月的新高過去34個月其實房租的價格也越來越高那我們現在達到更高了不僅買房越高租金也越來越高達到106.22這個是跟110年為基準來去做比較"},{"start":329.755,"end":329.836,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":341.949,"end":359.106,"text":"租金租得起吧但是現在看起來這兩塊我們政府都沒有做得很好這個是我要批判的地方租金的部分包含在居住正義裡面包含在包租貸款是我長期關注的就是說我們蓋社宅"},{"start":361.508,"end":381.997,"text":"土地的取得、時間的連線都可能緩不濟節沒有辦法落實賴清流的政策這個政策我也支持我也希望他可以做得成功做得好但是顯然租金的價格也越來越高所以我常在提的包括包租貸款的政策也是部長你上次給我回答包括我後面收到書面回應其實我是不滿意的"},{"start":384.378,"end":391.062,"text":"因為我有計算過就是說以我們目前一萬五的免稅額包租貸款我們目前申請包租貸款的戶數大概十萬六千戶免稅額是一萬五我們稅損差不多是一億那我看過那個集據如果我們的免稅額調到兩萬五千塊錢我們另外售戶的戶數只有四萬三千戶那你有沒有計算出來他的稅損到底差多少"},{"start":412.034,"end":441.454,"text":"但是我們願意加入包租代管的戶數可能大大增加很多這個也達到賴清德我們希望居住正義我現在房價越來越高但是我至少在租屋的部分有更多的公益人有更多的房東願意加入你包租代管的政策這個就是另外一個我要質詢的重點所以我要請問你到底受惠的戶數如果我調到25000塊的免稅額受惠的戶數到底有多少"},{"start":442.655,"end":464.157,"text":"那你稅損到底有多大?因為你一直跟我講說稅損會增加很多。你沒有一個數字給我,你真的無法說服我。所以你就跟我講說稅損會增加一億。那我就會去問賴清德,我就會去問卓榮泰。我如果可以增加兩萬戶的這個房東願意投入包租代管,那你稅損一億你願不願意去承受?"},{"start":465.842,"end":473.393,"text":"這就是另外一個問題嘛 這就是政府的選擇嘛到底是1億的稅損重要還是有1萬戶願意或者是10萬戶或5萬戶加入包租貸款政策重要 這就是一個選擇題嘛"},{"start":481.385,"end":491.72,"text":"謝謝委員對住宅政策的一個關注對於住宅這個提供除了社會住宅努力要興建之外還有包租貸款及供應出租的那剛剛就是說您提的就是說一萬五可不可以提高到兩萬五"},{"start":498.469,"end":521.61,"text":"一個稅損除了是一個稅損我覺得這個是一個考量部長我這個問題問了兩三次我覺得你根本就沒有好好去精算計算這個事情不是壞事你也知道不是我要個人要什麼虧的而是我在幫助賴清德達到居住正義包住代管跟量可以增加全國都可以增加你現在居然沒有辦法告訴我"},{"start":522.17,"end":523.413,"text":"如果投入4萬3千戶的這個包租貸款稅損到底多少?因為你一直告訴我說我們要顧慮稅損稅損到底是多少?"},{"start":533.499,"end":559.024,"text":"委員報告,這個公益出租也好,包租代管也好,不是只有考慮所得稅把1.5條高,免稅條高到2.5萬,這個就是房東願不願意加入,這就是鼓勵誘因,這就是誘因啊!能不能容我說明,也就是說除了所得稅之外,它的房屋稅跟地價稅都適用自用住宅,而不是用一般的所謂出租的住宅的一個數的稅率,所以不是只有所得稅,再其次,你讓房東要"},{"start":560.384,"end":560.424,"text":"﹚李彥秀"},{"start":577.85,"end":588.297,"text":"那你現在是說包租貸款的政策一萬五也不合理囉沒有在一萬五當時我們其實有考慮過六都的租金制做一個四度的減免加入包租貸款的免稅額也是你們提出來的我提出來只是說全國的"},{"start":593.761,"end":593.801,"text":"李彥秀"},{"start":619.672,"end":638.581,"text":"顯然的你沒有辦法回答我的問題就是我每次在這邊質詢就是狗肺火車然後你連想都不想你連稅損到底要增加多少稅損你連精算都沒有去精算所以我覺得底下的人大家都不認真啦你也都在敷衍我對這個事情非常不滿意絕對不是情緒性的發言而且我覺得這是一個好的政策"},{"start":645.344,"end":658.554,"text":"可以達到社會住宅多多提供出來政府蓋社宅其實真的很慢我希望他可以蓋得很快但沒有辦法年輕人買不起房至少也可以租得起房這是一個誘因讓房東把房子丟出來不管你回答我什麼都都是你的工具政策就是你們決定要怎麼做我只看效果結果出來到底是什麼房東因為你的政策丟出更多的房子出來加入包租代管"},{"start":674.226,"end":675.146,"text":"主席,一樣有請"}]}}}}