{"id":154244,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154244","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd1352e6dc1391aac3608df44dd9bf560a2ee23585586e40b3a332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"10:26:32 - 10:39:01","影片長度":"00:12:29","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議、本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人、委員顏寬恒等20人分別擬具「所得稅法部分條文修正草案」等3案。\n【6月26日及27日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:26:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:39:01+08:00","duration":749,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":447,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時26分）主席，一樣有請莊部長。"],["主席：好，部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長好。部長，我想今天大家都問了很多有關報稅季節大概多了多少錢，我自己已經整理了，今年5月 底的實徵大概是1兆3,263億，相較於去年總數多增加了861億。其中本席比較關心的部分是綜所稅裡頭的房地合一稅，前5個月總共是227億，比去年同期增加了88.9%，將近九成，尤其是桃園、臺中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%。能不能先請教一下部長，財政部能不能把整個各縣市全國交易的細部資料，就是申報的案件當中，到底1年內的換手有幾間，比例有多少？2年有多少、3年有多少？以此類推，這樣才能換算出來5年內的交易是屬於正常換屋還是屬於投資客的交易，算得出來嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，是不是容我們就針對您剛剛提的，就是房地合一稅裡面屬於1年交易、2年交易，所適用的稅率就不同，這個部分委員提到是不是可以做一個統計，我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計，好不好？就做一個詳細的分析，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：你們應該去分析一下，就如同去分析什麼呢？我們的青安貸有兩次嘛，第一次是99年，第二次是最近，青安貸在第一次的時候為什麼沒有像第二次引起這麼多的爭議？為什麼？你們是不是要查一下第一代的青安貸是不是自住的比例比較高？那個政策有沒有成功？第二次跟第一次的青安貸，你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎？你知道嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：有的，當然第一個就是，在第二次新青安的部分，我們就把最高貸款額度從原來的800萬調高到1,000萬，這個原因事實上是因為房價有往上；第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年，讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間；還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年。"],["郭委員國文：對，就是因為我們有三種方式的擴大，以至於投入房地產的誘因增加。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入房市，是不是我們當初制定時有過鬆的現象？我覺得1,000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題。第二個，我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期，把3年調成5年的時候，大家還本的時間延長到後面，你看到還本的部分，前面第一年，延長到40年都一樣，前面36個月都是1萬5,000不到，到第四年、第五年，1萬9,000不到，在這種情況底下，就變成什麼樣的現象呢？所有的狀況再加上貸款的部分，銀行貸款可以協助八成，甚至還有建商提出的公司貸、優付貸，再把那兩成處理掉，你知道這種情形嗎？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我知道。"],["郭委員國文：所以真正造成第二波青安貸引起這麼大爭議的，或許不是行為人本身而已，而是我們制度、周遭的助長，周遭的助長有幾個原因，第一個就是我們剛剛講的，我們把3年調到5年、把30年調到40年，接下來還有什麼？網路社團在揪團買啊！你們知道這種現象嗎？你也知道嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：有網紅在那裡做……"],["郭委員國文：所以如果從網紅的社團去查，從建商用公司貸、用優付貸、輕鬆付等這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷地去買，這部分投資的比例比較高，還是自住的比例比較高，您想一想！"],["莊部長翠雲：關於新青安，剛剛我們講到放寬了幾個條件，立意是好的，也就是讓年輕人，尤其剛出社會也許薪資可能不是那麼高，立意是好的！"],["郭委員國文：立意是好的，但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議，總體的房屋政策是牴觸的，我就問部長，這三點的部分有沒有緊縮的可能？有沒有考慮？還是維持這種開放性？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料，然後也會做一些政策決定。"],["郭委員國文：沒有，部長，我再問你一次，在主政部會當中，這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能？這是第一個。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們認為這個對年輕人……"],["郭委員國文：第二個，對建商的輕鬆付、公司貸有沒有約束的可能？第三個，對於網路揪團買，有沒有什麼樣他律的空間？我認為這三點是最有可能的！"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，關於新青安在剛剛提的這三項要不要做緊縮，我覺得這三項對年輕人是非常重要的，因為減輕他這個部分，立意是良善，但是不要因為有一些不好的情況，比如投機的或者是其他的而去做緊縮；那至於剛剛後面委員有所……"],["郭委員國文：如果這三個沒有緊縮的空間，就是要處理用優付貸、公司貸的部分啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，您提到這兩項，針對公司貸這個部分的話術等等，內政部其實都已經注意到，然後也會做處理。"],["郭委員國文：公司貸還有包括網路啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，網路的。"],["郭委員國文：集體揪團啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是！這個部分內政部都已經知道了，而且會注意去處理。"],["郭委員國文：對，所以現在政府要從這兩部分來進行著手，這邊的投資可能性就比較大，現在重點又放在哪裡？放在所謂的轉租，我跟你講，這個轉租、租屋的意義不大，因為從頭期款、買預售屋到成屋的時候，那個行為到時候你說是所謂轉租，那不知道什麼時候，錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個時候，最重要他還是在投資啊！他把這一個當成什麼？當成一種期貨，我繳完這5年之後，我預期房市以後會上漲，我5年後再脫手啊，就是這變成一個期貨、不動產的期貨啦！部長，你知道嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：變成是一個投資行為啦。"],["郭委員國文：對！"],["莊部長翠雲：可是預售屋是不能用新青安的啦，不能用青安貸款，因為要成屋才能夠貸這個錢。"],["郭委員國文：包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨，5年後再拋售也是一種期貨啊！所以就同樣是投資的行為嘛，也就是說，誰創造出來這種期貨的心理？誰創造出來這個期貨的商品？這個商品變成期貨的時候，你如何把這個本質打掉，我覺得這是關鍵啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員，瞭解。"],["郭委員國文：部長，請你去思考一下，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：思考一下這個很關鍵的本質，是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛。","第二個部分，你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少？5,057億！從中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上，你到底有沒有去看過總體這些國、公營的銀行獲利有多少來自於土建融的放款？你有沒有試算過？"],["莊部長翠雲：今天沒有帶資料。"],["郭委員國文：我跟你講，關於這波房地產，我們的國、公營銀行是受益者耶，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，因為……"],["郭委員國文：當然啦！對呀！你們最喜歡放款這些土建融嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：土建融，對。"],["郭委員國文：然後另外一個部分，以至於這個資本的集中力會越來越高，我就問你一點嘛，我們青安貸的貸款金額有沒有列入銀行法第七十二條之三的30%計算，還是屬於例外範圍？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分有，但土地銀行因為是屬於專業銀行，所以它沒有受銀行法的規定，但其他的銀行仍然有天花板。"],["郭委員國文：對嘛，都沒有受到這個限制啊，以至於這一個放款的成數會越來越增加，對不對？是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多，你們要思考一下，否則的話，這30%的條款形同虛設，我講白一點，真的形同虛設啊，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：可是跟委員說，我們看這個新青安貸款總額現在是四千多億，大部分是住宅，我們也看到他們買的房子大概都是在1,300萬以下，其實……"],["郭委員國文：部長，太好了！"],["莊部長翠雲：大概是1,500萬以下，占78%。"],["郭委員國文：你這個應該要講出來，我不是在強烈懷疑青安貸，青安貸在第一代的時候是成功的，第二代造成這一種……老實講，就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是啊。"],["郭委員國文：那你要把大部分的正常交易行為凸顯出來，為什麼本席剛剛問你第一代的自住比例多少？你要強化這個政策的正當性；第二個部分，現在的購買行為當中屬於自住可能性的比例大概多少，你也應該推估出來；最後，當發生投機行為的時候，你要處理的是投機行為的部分嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：對，你應該把這個……也就是說，我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上，就如同你剛剛講的數字，75%以上是正確的，只是25%是投資行為而破壞掉了，你應該講清楚，否則的話，政府的政策本來是良法美意，後來被搞得烏煙瘴氣，不是嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，所以跟委員報告，依我們這邊的資料，1,500萬是他們買的總價，不是貸款。"],["郭委員國文：對，總價，這個判斷出來嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：1,500萬以下占了78%，所以他不是去炒高價的！"],["郭委員國文：而且你是分區域，1,500這個自住的可能性很大嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對！而且……"],["郭委員國文：你應該要把這個相對而言是屬於正常自住的購屋行為講出來嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，對呀，事實上……"],["郭委員國文：這是第一個，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：免得這個青安貸被污名化，但該檢討的我們還是要檢討，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["郭委員國文：該去處理建商還是要處理建商，網路上這些行為該怎麼約束還是要約束！","最後我要問一下關務署，這兩天你有回應本席兩個問題，第一個，是那個稅金從兩萬五調升到三萬五，本席給你肯定；第二個部分，有關於網路詐騙，針對退稅的問題你也有作出一個不用公證費用的部分，本席也給你肯定。但是目前這個退稅還停留在紙本的部分，本席難以苟同，因為我們繳稅都AI化、繳稅都便捷化，退稅卻紙本化！","還有部長，我也提醒你一下，類似這一種繳稅我們都有期限，超過期限我們就要罰，那我問一下，如果是民眾要求你退稅，你有沒有給自己期限？"],["彭署長英偉：要求退稅的期限？"],["郭委員國文：對啊！就整個退稅的部分，不只是你，還有包括賦稅署，退稅的時候你有沒有給期限？我舉一個例子，部長注意聽，就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅的換屋重購退稅，你們有沒有時間點？也沒有時間點、多久要退稅完成也沒有時間點啊！比如說，你可能拖個1年、3年，遇到5、6月報稅旺季的時候可能拖了半年。這部分民眾都抱怨連連，繳稅要AI化、繳稅要便捷化，退稅卻沒有時間點！然後繳稅超過時限你要罰錢，退稅你們無責，這不太對吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：瞭解。"],["郭委員國文：你們是不是應該自我檢討一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員的意思就是說，民眾申請退稅，那政府應該要多少時間以內退給人家。"],["郭委員國文：對，多少時間你要明確而且越快越好，你都希望人家繳稅越快越好，你退稅會越慢越好？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們回去檢討一下。"],["郭委員國文：哪有這種道理！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，瞭解，謝謝！"],["郭委員國文：部長，好好地內部檢討一下，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：瞭解，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接著請羅明才羅召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-19","speakers":["郭國文","顏寬恒","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","賴惠員","李彥秀","羅明才","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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\"委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 65.559, \"end\": 65.859, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 65.859, \"end\": 66.039, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.039, \"end\": 66.139, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 66.139, \"end\": 66.239, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.239, \"end\": 66.379, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 66.379, \"end\": 66.559, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 66.559, \"end\": 66.78, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 66.78, \"end\": 67.3, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 67.3, \"end\": 67.66, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 67.66, \"end\": 67.76, \"score\": 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\"start\": 723.065, \"end\": 723.085, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 723.085, \"end\": 723.105, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 723.105, \"end\": 723.145, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 723.145, \"end\": 723.205, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 723.205, \"end\": 723.225, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 723.225, \"end\": 723.245, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 723.245, \"end\": 723.305, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 723.305, \"end\": 723.325, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 736.152, \"end\": 736.212, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"采\", \"start\": 736.212, \"end\": 736.392, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 736.392, \"end\": 736.412, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,129 --> 00:00:10,738\n市長,我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多有多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年五月底的時針在一兆3263億將近於去年總數多增加了861億\n\n2\n00:00:16,042 --> 00:00:39,521\n那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長\n\n3\n00:00:41,102 --> 00:01:03,809\n財政部不能把講整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件比例有多少二年有多少三年有多少以此類推這樣常常換算出來類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢還是屬於這個投資客的交易算得出來嗎\n\n4\n00:01:05,559 --> 00:01:29,218\n委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼\n\n5\n00:01:31,139 --> 00:01:45,172\n你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎\n\n6\n00:01:46,956 --> 00:02:00,087\n有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間\n\n7\n00:02:04,891 --> 00:02:26,048\n還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期\n\n8\n00:02:34,255 --> 00:02:52,196\n寬憲期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。\n\n9\n00:02:54,386 --> 00:03:14,089\n那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助八成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長\n\n10\n00:03:16,486 --> 00:03:38,730\n所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎\n\n11\n00:03:42,608 --> 00:04:01,705\n你也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想\n\n12\n00:04:05,073 --> 00:04:25,271\n新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性\n\n13\n00:04:29,415 --> 00:04:37,580\n跟委員報告我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料然後也會做一些政策決定主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能這是第一個第二個對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能第三個對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間這三點啊我認為這三點是最有可能的\n\n14\n00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:55,771\n對,您提到這兩項對,這個部分其實公司貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部\n\n15\n00:05:23,570 --> 00:05:27,071\n政府要從這兩部分來進行著手,這邊的投資可能性就比較大。現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租。我跟你講,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大。\n\n16\n00:05:50,177 --> 00:06:12,369\n因為你從買到那個頭期款買到這個預售屋到他成屋的時候那行為到時候你說所謂轉租那不知道什麼時候你錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個最重要他還是在投資啊他把這個當成什麼當成一種期貨我繳這五年繳完之後我預期房市以後會上漲我五年後再脫手啊\n\n17\n00:06:15,271 --> 00:06:36,818\n就是你變成一個期貨不動產的期貨啦部長你知道嗎?變成是一個投資行為啦也就是說可是預售屋是不能用清清安的啦不能用清安貸款因為你要成屋才能夠貸這個錢就包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨啊5年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊\n\n18\n00:06:37,538 --> 00:06:51,809\n對阿所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛也就是說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理誰創造出來這個期貨的商品這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿\n\n19\n00:06:53,751 --> 00:07:05,041\n副部長,請你思考一下好不好,思考一下這一個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊\n\n20\n00:07:10,105 --> 00:07:24,171\n中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款?你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:40,492 --> 00:07:59,467\n不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建容嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?\n\n22\n00:08:03,070 --> 00:08:26,844\n這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對\n\n23\n00:08:31,974 --> 00:08:47,600\n可是跟委員說我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4000多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在1500萬以下大概是1500萬以下占78%你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的\n\n24\n00:09:00,385 --> 00:09:17,494\n第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性\n\n25\n00:09:18,274 --> 00:09:38,152\n第2個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對是對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚\n\n26\n00:09:45,638 --> 00:09:54,020\n否則的話政府的政策本來是良法美意啊會被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你一個分區域1500這個製作的可能性很大嘛你應該把這個它相對而言是屬於正常的一個製作購物行為你要講出來嘛這第一個嘛好不好免得這個\n\n27\n00:10:15,225 --> 00:10:15,405\n主席\n\n28\n00:10:31,693 --> 00:10:56,208\n你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從那個稅金那個2萬5調成到3萬5本席跟你肯定第二個部分有關你這個網路詐騙那退稅的問題你也有做出一個不用公證費用的這個部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席拿你狗頭\n\n29\n00:10:57,429 --> 00:11:14,941\n因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟你提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限\n\n30\n00:11:17,834 --> 00:11:44,353\n對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊\n\n31\n00:11:46,637 --> 00:12:03,325\n這民眾都抱怨年年繳稅要AI化繳稅要變賊化退稅稅沒有時間點然後呢繳稅超過時限你要罰錢退稅你們無責這不太對吧你們是不是應該自我檢討一下對多少時間你要明確越虧越好你都希望繳稅越虧你退稅會越辦越好那有這種道理部長好好的內部檢討一下謝謝\n\n32\n00:12:16,152 --> 00:12:16,412\n羅明采、羅昭偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n129\t10738\t市長,我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多有多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年五月底的時針在一兆3263億將近於去年總數多增加了861億\n16042\t39521\t那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長\n41102\t63809\t財政部不能把講整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件比例有多少二年有多少三年有多少以此類推這樣常常換算出來類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢還是屬於這個投資客的交易算得出來嗎\n65559\t89218\t委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼\n91139\t105172\t你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎\n106956\t120087\t有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間\n124891\t146048\t還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期\n154255\t172196\t寬憲期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。\n174386\t194089\t那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助八成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長\n196486\t218730\t所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎\n222608\t241705\t你也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想\n245073\t265271\t新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性\n269415\t277580\t跟委員報告我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料然後也會做一些政策決定主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能這是第一個第二個對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能第三個對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間這三點啊我認為這三點是最有可能的\n294770\t295771\t對,您提到這兩項對,這個部分其實公司貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部\n323570\t327071\t政府要從這兩部分來進行著手,這邊的投資可能性就比較大。現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租。我跟你講,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大。\n350177\t372369\t因為你從買到那個頭期款買到這個預售屋到他成屋的時候那行為到時候你說所謂轉租那不知道什麼時候你錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個最重要他還是在投資啊他把這個當成什麼當成一種期貨我繳這五年繳完之後我預期房市以後會上漲我五年後再脫手啊\n375271\t396818\t就是你變成一個期貨 不動產的期貨啦 部長 你知道嗎?變成是一個投資行為啦 也就是說可是預售屋是不能用清清安的啦 不能用清安貸款 因為你要成屋才能夠貸這個錢就包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨啊 5年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊\n397538\t411809\t對阿所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛也就是說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理誰創造出來這個期貨的商品這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿\n413751\t425041\t副部長,請你思考一下好不好,思考一下這一個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊\n430105\t444171\t中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款?你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?\n460492\t479467\t不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建容嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?\n483070\t506844\t這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對\n511974\t527600\t可是跟委員說我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4000多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在1500萬以下大概是1500萬以下占78%你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的\n540385\t557494\t第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性\n558274\t578152\t第2個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對是對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚\n585638\t594020\t否則的話政府的政策本來是良法美意啊會被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你一個分區域1500這個製作的可能性很大嘛你應該把這個它相對而言是屬於正常的一個製作購物行為你要講出來嘛這第一個嘛好不好免得這個\n615225\t615405\t主席\n631693\t656208\t你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從那個稅金那個2萬5調成到3萬5本席跟你肯定第二個部分有關你這個網路詐騙那退稅的問題你也有做出一個不用公證費用的這個部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席拿你狗頭\n657429\t674941\t因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟你提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限\n677834\t704353\t對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊\n706637\t723325\t這民眾都抱怨年年繳稅要AI化繳稅要變賊化退稅稅沒有時間點然後呢繳稅超過時限你要罰錢退稅你們無責這不太對吧你們是不是應該自我檢討一下對多少時間你要明確越虧越好你都希望繳稅越虧你退稅會越辦越好那有這種道理部長好好的內部檢討一下謝謝\n736152\t736412\t羅明采、羅昭偉\n","txt":"市長,我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多有多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年五月底的時針在一兆3263億將近於去年總數多增加了861億\n那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長\n財政部不能把講整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件比例有多少二年有多少三年有多少以此類推這樣常常換算出來類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢還是屬於這個投資客的交易算得出來嗎\n委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼\n你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎\n有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間\n還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期\n寬憲期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。\n那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助八成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長\n所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎\n你也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想\n新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性\n跟委員報告我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料然後也會做一些政策決定主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能這是第一個第二個對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能第三個對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間這三點啊我認為這三點是最有可能的\n對,您提到這兩項對,這個部分其實公司貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部\n政府要從這兩部分來進行著手,這邊的投資可能性就比較大。現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租。我跟你講,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大。\n因為你從買到那個頭期款買到這個預售屋到他成屋的時候那行為到時候你說所謂轉租那不知道什麼時候你錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個最重要他還是在投資啊他把這個當成什麼當成一種期貨我繳這五年繳完之後我預期房市以後會上漲我五年後再脫手啊\n就是你變成一個期貨 不動產的期貨啦 部長 你知道嗎?變成是一個投資行為啦 也就是說可是預售屋是不能用清清安的啦 不能用清安貸款 因為你要成屋才能夠貸這個錢就包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨啊 5年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊\n對阿所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛也就是說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理誰創造出來這個期貨的商品這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿\n副部長,請你思考一下好不好,思考一下這一個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊\n中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款?你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?\n不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建容嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?\n這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對\n可是跟委員說我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4000多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在1500萬以下大概是1500萬以下占78%你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的\n第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性\n第2個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對是對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚\n否則的話政府的政策本來是良法美意啊會被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你一個分區域1500這個製作的可能性很大嘛你應該把這個它相對而言是屬於正常的一個製作購物行為你要講出來嘛這第一個嘛好不好免得這個\n主席\n你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從那個稅金那個2萬5調成到3萬5本席跟你肯定第二個部分有關你這個網路詐騙那退稅的問題你也有做出一個不用公證費用的這個部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席拿你狗頭\n因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟你提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限\n對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊\n這民眾都抱怨年年繳稅要AI化繳稅要變賊化退稅稅沒有時間點然後呢繳稅超過時限你要罰錢退稅你們無責這不太對吧你們是不是應該自我檢討一下對多少時間你要明確越虧越好你都希望繳稅越虧你退稅會越辦越好那有這種道理部長好好的內部檢討一下謝謝\n羅明采、羅昭偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.129 --> 00:10.738\n市長,我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多有多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年五月底的時針在一兆3263億將近於去年總數多增加了861億\n\n00:16.042 --> 00:39.521\n那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長\n\n00:41.102 --> 01:03.809\n財政部不能把講整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件比例有多少二年有多少三年有多少以此類推這樣常常換算出來類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢還是屬於這個投資客的交易算得出來嗎\n\n01:05.559 --> 01:29.218\n委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼\n\n01:31.139 --> 01:45.172\n你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎\n\n01:46.956 --> 02:00.087\n有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間\n\n02:04.891 --> 02:26.048\n還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期\n\n02:34.255 --> 02:52.196\n寬憲期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。\n\n02:54.386 --> 03:14.089\n那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助八成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長\n\n03:16.486 --> 03:38.730\n所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎\n\n03:42.608 --> 04:01.705\n你也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想\n\n04:05.073 --> 04:25.271\n新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性\n\n04:29.415 --> 04:37.580\n跟委員報告我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料然後也會做一些政策決定主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能這是第一個第二個對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能第三個對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間這三點啊我認為這三點是最有可能的\n\n04:54.770 --> 04:55.771\n對,您提到這兩項對,這個部分其實公司貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部\n\n05:23.570 --> 05:27.071\n政府要從這兩部分來進行著手,這邊的投資可能性就比較大。現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租。我跟你講,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大。\n\n05:50.177 --> 06:12.369\n因為你從買到那個頭期款買到這個預售屋到他成屋的時候那行為到時候你說所謂轉租那不知道什麼時候你錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個最重要他還是在投資啊他把這個當成什麼當成一種期貨我繳這五年繳完之後我預期房市以後會上漲我五年後再脫手啊\n\n06:15.271 --> 06:36.818\n就是你變成一個期貨不動產的期貨啦部長你知道嗎?變成是一個投資行為啦也就是說可是預售屋是不能用清清安的啦不能用清安貸款因為你要成屋才能夠貸這個錢就包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨啊5年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊\n\n06:37.538 --> 06:51.809\n對阿所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛也就是說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理誰創造出來這個期貨的商品這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿\n\n06:53.751 --> 07:05.041\n副部長,請你思考一下好不好,思考一下這一個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊\n\n07:10.105 --> 07:24.171\n中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款?你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?\n\n07:40.492 --> 07:59.467\n不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建容嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?\n\n08:03.070 --> 08:26.844\n這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對\n\n08:31.974 --> 08:47.600\n可是跟委員說我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4000多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在1500萬以下大概是1500萬以下占78%你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的\n\n09:00.385 --> 09:17.494\n第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性\n\n09:18.274 --> 09:38.152\n第2個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對是對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚\n\n09:45.638 --> 09:54.020\n否則的話政府的政策本來是良法美意啊會被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你一個分區域1500這個製作的可能性很大嘛你應該把這個它相對而言是屬於正常的一個製作購物行為你要講出來嘛這第一個嘛好不好免得這個\n\n10:15.225 --> 10:15.405\n主席\n\n10:31.693 --> 10:56.208\n你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從那個稅金那個2萬5調成到3萬5本席跟你肯定第二個部分有關你這個網路詐騙那退稅的問題你也有做出一個不用公證費用的這個部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席拿你狗頭\n\n10:57.429 --> 11:14.941\n因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟你提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限\n\n11:17.834 --> 11:44.353\n對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊\n\n11:46.637 --> 12:03.325\n這民眾都抱怨年年繳稅要AI化繳稅要變賊化退稅稅沒有時間點然後呢繳稅超過時限你要罰錢退稅你們無責這不太對吧你們是不是應該自我檢討一下對多少時間你要明確越虧越好你都希望繳稅越虧你退稅會越辦越好那有這種道理部長好好的內部檢討一下謝謝\n\n12:16.152 --> 12:16.412\n羅明采、羅昭偉\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.129,"end":10.738,"text":"市長,我想今天大家都問了很多報稅季節裡頭大概多有多少錢我大概自己已經整理了今年五月底的時針在一兆3263億將近於去年總數多增加了861億"},{"start":16.042,"end":39.521,"text":"那裡頭本席比較關心的部分是這個眾所稅裡頭的房地合一稅前5個月總共是227億比去年同期增加了88.9%大概將近9成房地合一稅那尤其是桃園、台中、新竹這三大熱區都成長超過100%那能不能先請教一下部長"},{"start":41.102,"end":63.809,"text":"財政部不能把講整個各縣市全國交易的這個細部資料就申報案件當中到底一年內的換手有幾件比例有多少二年有多少三年有多少以此類推這樣常常換算出來類似這樣子五年內的這個交易的這個方式是屬於正常化呢還是屬於這個投資客的交易算得出來嗎"},{"start":65.559,"end":89.218,"text":"委員那是不是容我們就這對您剛剛提的很好就是房地合一稅裡面屬於一年交易兩年交易那算是用的稅率就不同嘛那是不是可以做一個統計我想這個部分我們會後來做一個統計好不好就做一個詳細的分析就如同去分析什麼呢我們的清安貸有兩次嘛第一次是99年嘛第二次是最近嘛對不對清安貸為什麼第一次的時候沒有這麼跟第二次引起這麼多的爭議為什麼"},{"start":91.139,"end":105.172,"text":"你們是不是要查一下第一次的清安貸的時候第一代的清安貸的時候它是不是自住的比例比較高那個政策有沒有成功那第二次跟第一次的清安貸你們在整個辦法跟條件上有什麼樣的變化嗎"},{"start":106.956,"end":120.087,"text":"有的,當然第一個就是說在第二次所謂新清案的部分我們就把最高的貸款額度原來是800萬調高到1000萬那事實上是因為房價有往上,所以讓他一個那第二個就是把貸款年限從30年延長到40年讓年輕朋友們可以延長這個期間"},{"start":124.891,"end":146.048,"text":"還有一個就是寬限期從3年延長為5年就是因為我們有3種方式的擴大所以以至於這個誘因投入房地產誘因增加特別我認為不要去怪罪年輕人趕快投入這個方式是不是我們這一個張制定的時候過鬆的現象我是不是1000萬可能不是什麼太大的問題第二個我覺得最關鍵的問題是寬限期"},{"start":154.255,"end":172.196,"text":"寬憲期把3年調成5年的時候,大家呢,這一個還本的時間呢,延長到後面,你看到還本,前第一年呢,是延長到40年都一樣啦,前面36個月呢,都1萬5到,到呢,第4年第5年呢,1萬9不到。"},{"start":174.386,"end":194.089,"text":"那到這樣的情況底下你就變成什麼樣的現象呢?所有的這個狀況只要再加上這個貸款的部分銀行貸款可以協助八成甚至還有什麼?甚至就還有建商建商提出的公司貸、優惠貸再把那兩成處理掉你知道這種情形嗎?部長"},{"start":196.486,"end":218.73,"text":"所以真正會造成第二波輕案帶引起這麼大爭議的或許不是行為人本身而已而是我們制度周遭的助長周遭的助長有幾個原因第一個就是我們剛剛講的我們把3年調到5年把30年調到40年接下來還有什麼網路社團叫糾團買你有知道這種現象嗎"},{"start":222.608,"end":241.705,"text":"你也知道嘛所以說呢如果從網紅的社團去查從這一個建商用公私貸用優富貸輕鬆付的這種誘因來帶動整個年輕人不斷的去買入這投資的比例比較高還是自助的比例比較高您想一想"},{"start":245.073,"end":265.271,"text":"新青恩他剛剛我們講了就放寬了幾個條件利益是好的也就讓年輕人尤其你剛出社會也就是說能薪資可能不是那麼高利益是好的但是結果恐怕會造成很大的爭議總體的防護政策是抵觸的我就問說第一點這三點的部分部長有沒有可能緊縮的可能有沒有考慮還是維持這種開放性"},{"start":269.415,"end":277.58,"text":"跟委員報告我們行政院已經要各部會去盤點相關的一些資料然後也會做一些政策決定主政部會當中這三個當中有沒有緊縮的可能這是第一個第二個對建商的輕鬆富、公司貸有沒有約束的可能第三個對網路這個糾團買有沒有什麼樣塌綠的空間這三點啊我認為這三點是最有可能的"},{"start":294.77,"end":295.771,"text":"對,您提到這兩項對,這個部分其實公司貸等等這個部分的話術等等那個內政部"},{"start":323.57,"end":327.071,"text":"政府要從這兩部分來進行著手,這邊的投資可能性就比較大。現在重點又放在哪裡?放在所謂的這個轉租。我跟你講,這個轉租租屋那個意義不大。"},{"start":350.177,"end":372.369,"text":"因為你從買到那個頭期款買到這個預售屋到他成屋的時候那行為到時候你說所謂轉租那不知道什麼時候你錢的熱度沒有辦法到那個最重要他還是在投資啊他把這個當成什麼當成一種期貨我繳這五年繳完之後我預期房市以後會上漲我五年後再脫手啊"},{"start":375.271,"end":396.818,"text":"就是你變成一個期貨 不動產的期貨啦 部長 你知道嗎?變成是一個投資行為啦 也就是說可是預售屋是不能用清清安的啦 不能用清安貸款 因為你要成屋才能夠貸這個錢就包括成屋的部分也是一種期貨啊 5年後我再拋售也是一種期貨啊"},{"start":397.538,"end":411.809,"text":"對阿所以這同樣是投資的行為嘛也就是說誰創造了出來這個期貨的心理誰創造出來這個期貨的商品這個商品變成期貨的時候你如果把它這個本質把它打掉我覺得這是關鍵阿"},{"start":413.751,"end":425.041,"text":"副部長,請你思考一下好不好,思考一下這一個很關鍵的本質是我們創造出來期貨的本質嘛第二個部分呢,你去看看我們去年銀行業大賺多少?5057億啊"},{"start":430.105,"end":444.171,"text":"中間的華南銀行、第一銀行、兆豐都大賺200億以上你到底有沒有去看過說呢總體的這些銀行、國公營的銀行的這個獲利有多少來自於這個土建榮的放款?你有沒有算過?你有沒有算過?我跟你講這一波房地產啦我們的國公銀行啊是受益者欸不是嗎?"},{"start":460.492,"end":479.467,"text":"不是嗎?當然啊!你們最喜歡放款這些土建容嘛!然後另外一個部分以致於這個資本的集中力會越來越高嘛!我就問你一點嘛!我們的青安貸的這個貸款的這個金額有沒有列入銀行法72條之3的30%的計算還是屬於地外範圍?"},{"start":483.07,"end":506.844,"text":"這個部分有但土地銀行是因為是屬於專業銀行所以他沒有受銀行法的規定那其他的銀行仍然有天花板所以以至於這個販款的成數會越來越增加對不對是不是我們這個部分的例外條款太多你們要思考一下否則的話這30%的條款形同虛設我講白一點真的是形同虛設對不對"},{"start":511.974,"end":527.6,"text":"可是跟委員說我們已看這個親安貸款總額現在是4000多億他大概是住宅那我們也看到他們買的房子大概是都是在1500萬以下大概是1500萬以下占78%你這個應該講出來我這個東西不是在強烈懷疑親安貸親安貸我們在第一代的時候是成功的"},{"start":540.385,"end":557.494,"text":"第二代造成這一種呢就是老實講就是有幾顆老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥嘛那你要把大部分的正常的交易行為你不要把它凸顯出來為什麼本席剛剛在問你就第一代的時候自住的比例多少你要強化這個政策的正當性"},{"start":558.274,"end":578.152,"text":"第2個部分呢你現在的購買行為當中屬於自住的可能性大概比例多少你應該推估出來最後呢是投機行為的時候你要把它處理是投機行為的部分嘛對不對是對你應該把它這個也就是說我們這個政策到目前為止至少75%以上就如同你剛剛講的數字75%以上是正確的只是25%是投資行為破壞掉了你應該講清楚"},{"start":585.638,"end":594.02,"text":"否則的話政府的政策本來是良法美意啊會被搞得烏煙瘴氣不是嗎?是的,所以根據委員報告我們這邊的資料1500萬他們買的總價不是貸款1500萬以下占了78%而且你一個分區域1500這個製作的可能性很大嘛你應該把這個它相對而言是屬於正常的一個製作購物行為你要講出來嘛這第一個嘛好不好免得這個"},{"start":615.225,"end":615.405,"text":"主席"},{"start":631.693,"end":656.208,"text":"你有回應本席兩個問題第一個是從那個稅金那個2萬5調成到3萬5本席跟你肯定第二個部分有關你這個網路詐騙那退稅的問題你也有做出一個不用公證費用的這個部分本席也跟你肯定但是目前這個退稅還停留在資本的部分本席拿你狗頭"},{"start":657.429,"end":674.941,"text":"因為呢我們繳稅都AI化繳稅都便捷化退稅是紙本化還有那個部長我也跟你提醒一下類似這種繳稅啊我們都有期限啊超過期限我們就要罰那我問一下我那個民眾要求你退稅呢你有沒有給自己期限"},{"start":677.834,"end":704.353,"text":"對阿沒有這整個退稅的部分不只是你還有包括稅務署退稅的時候你有沒有給期限我舉一個例子部長您注意聽齁就是剛剛同樣的房地合一稅換屋重購退稅你們有沒有時間點有沒有時間點阿對啊多久要退稅完成有沒有時間點阿也就是說呢你可能拖個一年三年遇到五六月報稅忘記的時候可能就拖了半年阿對啊"},{"start":706.637,"end":723.325,"text":"這民眾都抱怨年年繳稅要AI化繳稅要變賊化退稅稅沒有時間點然後呢繳稅超過時限你要罰錢退稅你們無責這不太對吧你們是不是應該自我檢討一下對多少時間你要明確越虧越好你都希望繳稅越虧你退稅會越辦越好那有這種道理部長好好的內部檢討一下謝謝"},{"start":736.152,"end":736.412,"text":"羅明采、羅昭偉"}]}}}}