{"id":154255,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154255","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd11f5d7f5f87fa1cc368d28c953871b3693176ac657cb8ac9c27ce88a31896901e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:17:11 - 10:25:07","影片長度":"00:07:56","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。五、審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「消防法第十五條、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。六、審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「消防法第二十一條之一、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。【第一案及第八案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n【6月26日及27日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:17:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T10:25:07+08:00","duration":476,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":25,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-25"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時17分）主席好，各位委員、各位官員，大家早安。有請劉部長還有署長。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘）：部長、署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["蕭署長煥章：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝部長、署長。今天討論的是消防法修法，大家都知道，上次明揚火災之後，消防人員上街抗議，要求要組工會，當時本席也在這邊跟署長、部長請益，第一個是針對消防員組工會的事情；第二個，針對他們資訊落差的問題，就是消防員資訊的即時更新等等。大家今天最重視的就是消防法修法，主要是針對企業沒有誠實申報危險化學物品，或是沒有請專責人員即時到現場安排消防跟檢視。當時我有提出來，修法的過程中是不是這些企業應該停業？當時說現在法條看到還是「得」停業，等一下會針對這些問題跟部長、署長請益。","第一個問題還是今天大家很多人提到的，我們要幫所有消防人員發聲，就是消防員員額不足。我一直覺得內政部跟消防署對人員不足的問題，好像一直以來都沒有很明確的回復。尤其我把新北市拿出來跟大家報告，新北市原本的編制員額是3,500人，預算員額是2,686人，目前的員額只有2,516人，比編制員額少了快要1,000人。部長、署長，新北市四百多萬人，而且我的選區在中和，我常常跟部長、署長報告，中和有40萬人，占了新北市十分之一的人口，土地面積卻只有新北市的百分之一，地狹人稠，有時候救災非常辛苦。昨天我質詢時也拜託院長，我們南勢分隊一年的值勤數量高達9,000次，嚇死人了，所以我昨天才在質詢的時候，請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早設臨時的編制，昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。員額的部分請署長跟部長簡單講一下，跟國際等相比，有沒有儘量追上其他縣市或國際的標準？"],["劉部長世芳：張委員，等一下我請署長回答，你昨天提到中和秀山分隊，我們已經要求要跟國防部軍備局，就臨時的辦公廠房看能不能延長到五年。"],["張委員智倫：好，非常感謝。"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員，消防人力現在各縣市正在擴編，尤其785號解釋函以後，人力的需求更大。目前全國的缺額是1,400位，現在特考有2,200位學生報名，我們要錄取1,000位，如果他的分數可以達到50分以上，我們可能考慮還要增額錄取，這是針對每一年的量。每一年1,000位的量，逐年、兩年，我們預計兩年的量可以達到……"],["張委員智倫：好，署長，我簡單問你，新北市的缺額大概多久可以補齊？有沒有一個想法？"],["蕭署長煥章：新北市的預算員額有出來，如果是1,000位，而且要達到編制員額，可能要給我們三年、四年的時間，因為同時……"],["張委員智倫：三、四年？可不可以再加速一點？"],["蕭署長煥章：我們儘量做，因為同時有一大批進去，也會對新北市造成壓力，因為都是新的。我們考慮……"],["張委員智倫：好，時間的關係……"],["蕭署長煥章：我們再跟新北市討論。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝署長。我要拜託，因為現在在修消防法，就是要保障消防人員的權益。我想給署長跟部長看一個圖，當員額增加的時候，沒有想到有些老舊廳舍的空間完全不足。今天跟部長報告一下，看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到，所有辛苦的消防人員除了要面對現在天氣非常熱的狀況，到外面救災，回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候，發現四個人住在一間只有不到兩坪到三坪的房間。我進去看，這真的是火神的眼淚──消防員的眼淚，大家的身心靈都遇到非常大的衝擊。那個床的長度還……我如果去躺，大概一百七十幾公分、一百八十公分，腳都跑出來。部長跟署長，在增加人力的時候，這個人還睡得下嗎？未來老舊宿舍、老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決？"],["蕭署長煥章：老舊廳舍的問題……"],["張委員智倫：有沒有統整一下？"],["蕭署長煥章：有關內部裝修，我們在去年、今年，有因應150個分隊內部凌亂、不乾淨或是壁癌的問題，目前已經在做了。"],["張委員智倫：好……"],["蕭署長煥章：後續還會繼續執行。老舊廳舍部分，九二一以後如果有一些損毀，目前前瞻計畫有重建、興建、改建計畫正在進行。"],["張委員智倫：你們現在有沒有統整？就新北好了，有多少是3、40年以上？過去在規劃的時候，可能人沒有那麼多，消防員沒有那麼多，現在人越來越多，消防員越來越多，現在有這樣的情況，他們每天休息全部擠得很像沙丁魚。你們有沒有預計經費或是時間，或是政府如果找到場地的話，這個經費要如何編列？是不是可以請部長、署長儘快協助？有一個計畫表還是怎麼樣。"],["蕭署長煥章：如果委員關心秀山分隊……"],["張委員智倫：不是，這個不只秀山分隊，秀山分隊連分隊都沒有出現，這是我們中和其他分隊宿舍老舊的問題。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員，這樣好嗎？您提到宿舍老舊或是時間過久，剛剛署長已經跟您報告，150處……"],["張委員智倫：是不是可以……"],["劉部長世芳：如果這150處未來改善的時候，還是不合所需或者是我們要增加員額，我們來想辦法。但是我跟張委員建議，目前您也非常關心社會住宅，如果警消可以找到適合的地點，我們也希望幫警消蓋社會住宅。如果社會住宅可以有這樣的空間等出現，住都中心或是國土管理署就會來幫忙，一方面也解決年輕消防員未來住家或是租屋的困難，我們兩個可以結合的話會更好。尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常稠密，怎麼樣找到適合的空間，恐怕也要請張委員或是相關的委員幫忙。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長的回答。未來中央、地方一條心，我們立法委員沒辦法增加預算，可是內政部可以協助消防署或警政署，針對一些廳舍老舊，如果有找到一些地方可以來遷移或是可以協助解決住的問題，大家一起來努力，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張智倫委員的詢答。","下一位請許宇甄委員，再來就到黃國昌、牛煦庭，我們就休息5分鐘，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：(10時25分)謝謝主席，我們請劉世芳劉部長。"],["主席：好，部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好，從去年開始，就先有恆春公墓的執勤人員在過程中不小心被6噸的小型水箱車壓死而殉職，然後到了明揚國際又有4名消防員不幸殉職；另外新竹移工宿舍的火警，也有我們的消防員不幸罹難，當然，晴空匯的部分也造成兩名消防人員的殉職，所以在一年半的時間內就有8位消防人員因為救災而犧牲，所以我想大家都非常的難過，而如何保障消防員的人身安全，我想也是這次修法的一個重點，也是我們當前最重要的一個工作。想請教一下部長，現在的公共危險物品及可燃性高壓氣體製造儲存處理場所設置標準暨安全管理辦法，規定工廠有公共危險物品及可燃性高壓氣體達管制量30倍以上要申報，在儲存化學品的倉庫跟儲存場所發生火災的時候，管理權人要立即提供廠區化學品的種類、數量、位置、平面圖等相關的規定，但是現在是一個網路資訊的時代，這種書面的數據要到現場才提供紙本資料，是不是已經太過落後了？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想您非常關心的部分確實是正確，目前我們的提供不會是書面，譬如我們自己在介接環境部或是勞動部、經濟部的資料的話，其實都是用雲端，在派遣出去的時候，他們就要配備這個部分，包括建築物本身的一個構造圖，也是要先派遣出去，但是比較重要的就是，火災現場的工廠管理人，他要告訴我們變動的資料在哪裡，也就是說，剛剛有委員提到了，我可能今天進貨一批放在A廠，可是發生火災在B廠，你要先告訴我們這個部分。"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，像這個部分，因為剛剛我也是要跟部長建議的就是，現在是網路資訊的時代，其實可以放到雲端去，我們用加密的方式，請問一下，現在業者就已經有做這樣的事情，多久會更新一次？"],["蕭署長煥章：跟委員報告，工廠管理法是半年，上半年通過的是半年要一次……"],["許委員宇甄：是，那這樣的時間，就像你剛剛講的，因為半年的時間真的太長了……"],["蕭署長煥章：所以剛剛講說現場的管理人讓我們知道有什麼變動……"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以在這個部分，我們是不是可以請業者比如每週就更新資料上傳雲端，然後到了現場發生火災的時候，現場指揮官在拿到這個雲端資料之後，他可以知道現場可能有什麼樣的危險物品及相關狀況，他就可以馬上指揮第一線弟兄應該要怎麼做，我覺得這個可以防範火災，就像上次的明揚大火發生的事，而且這種作法也可以讓我們的弟兄們到火災現場的時候，就可以先透過手機知道相關的資料，哪裡有儲存危險的物品，不是到了火場才有這樣的資料，因為半年的時間事實上可能有很大的轉變，而且剛剛我提到的這個部分，是不是能夠來做這樣一個修正？"],["蕭署長煥章：這個部分我們會跟經濟部再來進一步商討，經濟部那邊是有要求工廠輔導法裡面只要有大變動，它也要跟著修正，有關操作層面，我們跟經濟部再來談。"],["許委員宇甄：對，因為我覺得半年時間真的太長，事實上，上傳雲端每週做更新的話，對業者來說，這也是它應該要盡的一個義務跟責任，另外再請教一下部長，有關這次院版修正第二十五條之九的規定，就是各級政府辦理消防人員安全衛生防護設備措施跟健康檢查所需要的費用，應該優先編列預算。請問一下部長，這次增訂這個條文的用意是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：我想我們既然把消防法設定一個職業安全專章，對於消防人員，包括是正職的消防人員跟義消，本來就是要保障他的身心健康，既然要保障他身心健康的話，不管是防護設備或者是他自己本身的體檢所需要的經費當然要優先編列。"],["許委員宇甄：那現在沒有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我們現在優先編的意思是「應」優先編列，本來我們針對現在的消防員就有編列。"],["許委員宇甄：對，因為我想對於各級政府來說，一定就已經在做這些事情了。"],["劉部長世芳：包括地方政府，中央政府一定會編列。"],["許委員宇甄：對，那地方政府應該是只要財源沒有困難的，它一定都會優先編列，所以我現在不曉得這個條文寫上去的意思是說，現在有地方政府沒有這樣做嗎？"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員，目前消防裝備器材種類真的很多，我們整個盤點以後，像最近院裡面核定的二、三個計畫總共270億，就是針對這個問題來解決目前的狀況，這次的職安中程計畫也特別針對消防特定的檢查，我們每年也匡列一定的額度，讓全國消防人員可以做這方面的健康檢查，也就是回應到剛剛委員所關心的這個條文，特別把它凸顯出來以後，提醒地方政府、中央政府，這個預算是需要配合我們滾動調整以後，有哪些經費需要再來編列，跟委員回報。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我剛提到這個就是說，事實上有些地方政府的財源並沒有那麼充足，所以這個部分如果遇到這樣一個狀況，是不是可以請中央也優先提供補助呢？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員提醒，其實剛剛署長講得非常清楚，如果他是屬於全面性或通案性，譬如說我們救火的消防人員可能肺部需要做健康檢查，這個大概就是我們全面會處理，但是針對個別的地方政府，譬如說也許有的人要針對高血壓或是其他的部分，請他們自行來編列，如果這方面是屬於通案性的話，應該是消防署要全面來吸收。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分主要是針對，因為事實上財劃法已經25年沒有修正過，所以有些地方的財源確實很不足，當然也希望針對財源不足的這些縣市，他們一定很希望去照顧這些消防弟兄，而相關的安全防護設備、各方面的設備還有健康檢查，他們一定都願意。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["許委員宇甄：但針對這個部分如果有財源不足的地方，也希望中央是不是能夠優先來做？"],["劉部長世芳：我們儘量來試看看，看怎麼檢討及幫忙。"],["許委員宇甄：不好意思，主席是不是可以給我1分鐘的時間，我想再請教一個部分，就是在政院版的第四十三條之二規定，各級消防機關，經中央主管機關或上級機關通知限期改善，屆期未改善者，處新臺幣三萬元以上三十萬以下罰鍰。請問一下，這個意思就是說，我們中央主管機關內政部消防署要罰我們的消防局嗎？是這樣的意思嗎？第四十三條之二。"],["蕭署長煥章：其實這個部分就各級消防機關，所以它會有它的上級機關，比如說縣市政府，中央會由內政部或者消防署這邊來執行，當然，目前這個條文，我們會先從改善的角度來做處理，不是一下子就處罰。"],["許委員宇甄：對，因為我想這個部分如果是罰消防局的話，那消防局的局長是要用自己的薪水去付罰鍰，還是要用消防局的預算支付？"],["蕭署長煥章：這個部分，事實上我們訂定這個條文就是要讓縣市能夠面對到前面這些，包括剛剛委員所提到的可能預算的編列、裝備器材的提供或者是他的訓練，或者是職安這些問題來請它處理……"],["許委員宇甄：我只是點出這個問題啦！希望針對這個部分，事實上你罰消防局，它一定也是用消防局的預算去做罰鍰支付，不可能只罰個人，雖然點出問題，但是我覺得解決之道更重要，在這邊也謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝許宇甄委員的質詢。","下一位請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-25","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","廖先翔","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","張宏陸","黃建賓","王美惠","張智倫","許宇甄","黃國昌","牛煦庭","蘇清泉","丁學忠","林岱樺","徐欣瑩","范雲","張啓楷","吳宗憲","高金素梅","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":87,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具\n「消防法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」\n案；四、審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「消防法第十五條、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文\n修正草案」案；五、審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「消防法第二十一條之一、第二十一條之二及第\n四十三條之一條文修正草案」案；六、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修\n正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136501_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"154255","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154255","tool":"pyannote","id":"154255-pyannote"},"job_id":"ahxJwlMa82UNSPvT","queued_at":"2024-06-26 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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 401.207, \"end\": 401.307, \"score\": 0.446}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 401.307, \"end\": 401.327, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"昌\", \"start\": 401.327, \"end\": 401.407, \"score\": 0.465}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 401.407, \"end\": 401.427, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 401.427, \"end\": 401.487, \"score\": 0.336}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 401.487, \"end\": 401.507, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"《\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 401.507, \"end\": 401.587, \"score\": 0.501}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 401.587, \"end\": 401.607, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 401.607, \"end\": 401.747, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 401.747, \"end\": 401.767, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 401.767, \"end\": 401.847, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 401.847, \"end\": 401.907, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 470.868, \"end\": 471.208, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 471.208, \"end\": 473.629, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 473.629, \"end\": 473.769, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 473.769, \"end\": 473.969, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 473.969, \"end\": 474.329, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 474.329, \"end\": 474.349, \"score\": 0.575}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,273 --> 00:00:13,969\n主席好各位委員各位官員大家早安是不是有請我們劉副長還有我們署長\n\n2\n00:00:18,234 --> 00:00:42,668\n謝謝部長、署長今天討論的是消防法的修法大家都知道在上次民洋火災之後消防人員上街抗議要求要組工會當時本席也在這邊跟署長跟部長請議針對他們當時要求的消防員第一個組工會的事情第二個針對他們的資訊落差的一個\n\n3\n00:00:45,029 --> 00:00:47,610\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n4\n00:01:03,574 --> 00:01:07,315\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n5\n00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,102\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n6\n00:01:46,712 --> 00:01:56,737\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n7\n00:02:08,823 --> 00:02:14,610\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n\n8\n00:02:28,024 --> 00:02:52,050\n所以我這邊昨天在質詢的時候請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早來臨時編制。那昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。但是原文的部分請署長跟部長可以簡單來講一下,有沒有跟國際相比有沒有盡量來追上其他縣市分國際的標準?\n\n9\n00:02:53,610 --> 00:03:07,883\n張委員,等一下的部分我請署長回答,但是你昨天提到有關綜合秀山分隊的部分,我們已經有要求要跟國防部的軍備局來救那個臨時的辦工廠房的部分,他能不能延長到5年?好,非常感謝,非常感謝。\n\n10\n00:03:08,604 --> 00:03:34,603\n很感謝委員,消防人力現在是各縣市正在擴編,尤其情報化解釋含有人力的需求更大,所以縣市目前缺額全國缺額是1400位,目前現在正在考特考的學生呢,有2000、200位的報名,我們要錄取1000位,那如果說他的分數可以達到50分以上,我們可能考慮還要整個錄取,這是針對每年這個量,那每年1000的量,\n\n11\n00:03:36,664 --> 00:03:41,651\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n12\n00:03:53,288 --> 00:04:01,512\n三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n\n13\n00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:44,347\n當你這個員額在增加的時候沒有想到我們有些老舊的廳舍完全這個空間不足啊來今天跟大家跟部長報告一下看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到齁這個我們所有的辛苦的消防人員除了現在天氣非常熱到外面就在一樣回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候發現四個人住在一間只有不到\n\n14\n00:04:45,347 --> 00:04:50,648\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具\n\n15\n00:05:06,812 --> 00:05:32,398\n部長跟署長在增加人力的時候這個人還睡得下嗎?這個未來老舊宿舍老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決?老舊廳舍的問題有沒有去統整一下?內部裝修我們去年今年有針對150個分隊的內部像這個凌亂或者是不乾淨或者是有瘋癲這個目前已經在做後續還會繼續來執行\n\n16\n00:05:34,818 --> 00:05:45,583\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n17\n00:06:04,773 --> 00:06:08,437\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n18\n00:06:20,391 --> 00:06:38,605\n若說委員關心秀山分隊。不是不是,我的這個不只秀山分隊,秀山分隊是還沒有,還連那個分隊都沒有出現,這是我們綜合其他的分隊,這個宿舍老舊的一個問題。那委員這樣好嗎,就是你有關提到這個宿舍老舊或是時間過久的部分,剛剛署長已經跟您報告是150處。\n\n19\n00:06:40,486 --> 00:06:42,127\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n20\n00:07:00,481 --> 00:07:05,185\n如果社會住宅可以有這樣的一個空間或是有這樣子的時間出現的話我們的這個這個住住中心或是我們國土管理署就會來幫忙一方面也解決這個年輕的這個消防員未來他們的這個住家或是這個租屋的困難所以如果我們兩個可以結合的話會更好那尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常的稠密怎麼樣找到適合的空間恐怕邀請張委員或是相關的委員來幫忙\n\n21\n00:07:27,363 --> 00:07:54,349\n好謝謝部長的回答就是未來大家中央地方一條心那我也希望說我們立法院是沒辦法增加預算可是內政部可以協助這個消防署針對一些或警政署針對一些聽證老舊如果找到一些地方可以來遷移的或者是可以來協助這些住宿的一些問題大家一起來努力好不好謝謝好謝謝我們張助人委員的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8273\t13969\t主席好 各位委員各位官員大家早安 是不是有請我們劉副長還有我們署長\n18234\t42668\t謝謝部長、署長今天討論的是消防法的修法大家都知道在上次民洋火災之後消防人員上街抗議要求要組工會當時本席也在這邊跟署長跟部長請議針對他們當時要求的消防員第一個組工會的事情第二個針對他們的資訊落差的一個\n45029\t47610\t五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n63574\t67315\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n83319\t88102\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n106712\t116737\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n128823\t134610\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n148024\t172050\t所以我這邊昨天在質詢的時候請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早來臨時編制。那昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。但是原文的部分請署長跟部長可以簡單來講一下,有沒有跟國際相比有沒有盡量來追上其他縣市分國際的標準?\n173610\t187883\t張委員,等一下的部分我請署長回答,但是你昨天提到有關綜合秀山分隊的部分,我們已經有要求要跟國防部的軍備局來救那個臨時的辦工廠房的部分,他能不能延長到5年?好,非常感謝,非常感謝。\n188604\t214603\t很感謝委員,消防人力現在是各縣市正在擴編,尤其情報化解釋含有人力的需求更大,所以縣市目前缺額全國缺額是1400位,目前現在正在考特考的學生呢,有2000、200位的報名,我們要錄取1000位,那如果說他的分數可以達到50分以上,我們可能考慮還要整個錄取,這是針對每年這個量,那每年1000的量,\n216664\t221651\t五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n233288\t241512\t三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n259020\t284347\t當你這個員額在增加的時候沒有想到我們有些老舊的廳舍完全這個空間不足啊來今天跟大家跟部長報告一下看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到齁這個我們所有的辛苦的消防人員除了現在天氣非常熱到外面就在一樣回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候發現四個人住在一間只有不到\n285347\t290648\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具\n306812\t332398\t部長跟署長在增加人力的時候這個人還睡得下嗎?這個未來老舊宿舍老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決?老舊廳舍的問題有沒有去統整一下?內部裝修我們去年今年有針對150個分隊的內部像這個凌亂或者是不乾淨或者是有瘋癲這個目前已經在做後續還會繼續來執行\n334818\t345583\t五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n364773\t368437\t三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n380391\t398605\t若說委員關心秀山分隊。不是不是,我的這個不只秀山分隊,秀山分隊是還沒有,還連那個分隊都沒有出現,這是我們綜合其他的分隊,這個宿舍老舊的一個問題。那委員這樣好嗎,就是你有關提到這個宿舍老舊或是時間過久的部分,剛剛署長已經跟您報告是150處。\n400486\t402127\t五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n420481\t425185\t如果社會住宅可以有這樣的一個空間或是有這樣子的時間出現的話我們的這個這個住住中心或是我們國土管理署就會來幫忙一方面也解決這個年輕的這個消防員未來他們的這個住家或是這個租屋的困難所以如果我們兩個可以結合的話會更好那尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常的稠密怎麼樣找到適合的空間恐怕邀請張委員或是相關的委員來幫忙\n447363\t474349\t好 謝謝部長的回答就是未來大家中央地方一條心那我也希望說我們立法院是沒辦法增加預算可是內政部可以協助這個消防署針對一些或警政署針對一些聽證老舊如果找到一些地方可以來遷移的或者是可以來協助這些住宿的一些問題大家一起來努力好不好 謝謝好 謝謝我們張助人委員的\n","txt":"主席好 各位委員各位官員大家早安 是不是有請我們劉副長還有我們署長\n謝謝部長、署長今天討論的是消防法的修法大家都知道在上次民洋火災之後消防人員上街抗議要求要組工會當時本席也在這邊跟署長跟部長請議針對他們當時要求的消防員第一個組工會的事情第二個針對他們的資訊落差的一個\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n所以我這邊昨天在質詢的時候請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早來臨時編制。那昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。但是原文的部分請署長跟部長可以簡單來講一下,有沒有跟國際相比有沒有盡量來追上其他縣市分國際的標準?\n張委員,等一下的部分我請署長回答,但是你昨天提到有關綜合秀山分隊的部分,我們已經有要求要跟國防部的軍備局來救那個臨時的辦工廠房的部分,他能不能延長到5年?好,非常感謝,非常感謝。\n很感謝委員,消防人力現在是各縣市正在擴編,尤其情報化解釋含有人力的需求更大,所以縣市目前缺額全國缺額是1400位,目前現在正在考特考的學生呢,有2000、200位的報名,我們要錄取1000位,那如果說他的分數可以達到50分以上,我們可能考慮還要整個錄取,這是針對每年這個量,那每年1000的量,\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n當你這個員額在增加的時候沒有想到我們有些老舊的廳舍完全這個空間不足啊來今天跟大家跟部長報告一下看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到齁這個我們所有的辛苦的消防人員除了現在天氣非常熱到外面就在一樣回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候發現四個人住在一間只有不到\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具\n部長跟署長在增加人力的時候這個人還睡得下嗎?這個未來老舊宿舍老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決?老舊廳舍的問題有沒有去統整一下?內部裝修我們去年今年有針對150個分隊的內部像這個凌亂或者是不乾淨或者是有瘋癲這個目前已經在做後續還會繼續來執行\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n若說委員關心秀山分隊。不是不是,我的這個不只秀山分隊,秀山分隊是還沒有,還連那個分隊都沒有出現,這是我們綜合其他的分隊,這個宿舍老舊的一個問題。那委員這樣好嗎,就是你有關提到這個宿舍老舊或是時間過久的部分,剛剛署長已經跟您報告是150處。\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n如果社會住宅可以有這樣的一個空間或是有這樣子的時間出現的話我們的這個這個住住中心或是我們國土管理署就會來幫忙一方面也解決這個年輕的這個消防員未來他們的這個住家或是這個租屋的困難所以如果我們兩個可以結合的話會更好那尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常的稠密怎麼樣找到適合的空間恐怕邀請張委員或是相關的委員來幫忙\n好 謝謝部長的回答就是未來大家中央地方一條心那我也希望說我們立法院是沒辦法增加預算可是內政部可以協助這個消防署針對一些或警政署針對一些聽證老舊如果找到一些地方可以來遷移的或者是可以來協助這些住宿的一些問題大家一起來努力好不好 謝謝好 謝謝我們張助人委員的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.273 --> 00:13.969\n主席好各位委員各位官員大家早安是不是有請我們劉副長還有我們署長\n\n00:18.234 --> 00:42.668\n謝謝部長、署長今天討論的是消防法的修法大家都知道在上次民洋火災之後消防人員上街抗議要求要組工會當時本席也在這邊跟署長跟部長請議針對他們當時要求的消防員第一個組工會的事情第二個針對他們的資訊落差的一個\n\n00:45.029 --> 00:47.610\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n01:03.574 --> 01:07.315\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n01:23.319 --> 01:28.102\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n01:46.712 --> 01:56.737\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n02:08.823 --> 02:14.610\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n\n02:28.024 --> 02:52.050\n所以我這邊昨天在質詢的時候請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早來臨時編制。那昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。但是原文的部分請署長跟部長可以簡單來講一下,有沒有跟國際相比有沒有盡量來追上其他縣市分國際的標準?\n\n02:53.610 --> 03:07.883\n張委員,等一下的部分我請署長回答,但是你昨天提到有關綜合秀山分隊的部分,我們已經有要求要跟國防部的軍備局來救那個臨時的辦工廠房的部分,他能不能延長到5年?好,非常感謝,非常感謝。\n\n03:08.604 --> 03:34.603\n很感謝委員,消防人力現在是各縣市正在擴編,尤其情報化解釋含有人力的需求更大,所以縣市目前缺額全國缺額是1400位,目前現在正在考特考的學生呢,有2000、200位的報名,我們要錄取1000位,那如果說他的分數可以達到50分以上,我們可能考慮還要整個錄取,這是針對每年這個量,那每年1000的量,\n\n03:36.664 --> 03:41.651\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n03:53.288 --> 04:01.512\n三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。\n\n04:19.020 --> 04:44.347\n當你這個員額在增加的時候沒有想到我們有些老舊的廳舍完全這個空間不足啊來今天跟大家跟部長報告一下看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到齁這個我們所有的辛苦的消防人員除了現在天氣非常熱到外面就在一樣回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候發現四個人住在一間只有不到\n\n04:45.347 --> 04:50.648\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具\n\n05:06.812 --> 05:32.398\n部長跟署長在增加人力的時候這個人還睡得下嗎?這個未來老舊宿舍老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決?老舊廳舍的問題有沒有去統整一下?內部裝修我們去年今年有針對150個分隊的內部像這個凌亂或者是不乾淨或者是有瘋癲這個目前已經在做後續還會繼續來執行\n\n05:34.818 --> 05:45.583\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n06:04.773 --> 06:08.437\n三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n06:20.391 --> 06:38.605\n若說委員關心秀山分隊。不是不是,我的這個不只秀山分隊,秀山分隊是還沒有,還連那個分隊都沒有出現,這是我們綜合其他的分隊,這個宿舍老舊的一個問題。那委員這樣好嗎,就是你有關提到這個宿舍老舊或是時間過久的部分,剛剛署長已經跟您報告是150處。\n\n06:40.486 --> 06:42.127\n五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。\n\n07:00.481 --> 07:05.185\n如果社會住宅可以有這樣的一個空間或是有這樣子的時間出現的話我們的這個這個住住中心或是我們國土管理署就會來幫忙一方面也解決這個年輕的這個消防員未來他們的這個住家或是這個租屋的困難所以如果我們兩個可以結合的話會更好那尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常的稠密怎麼樣找到適合的空間恐怕邀請張委員或是相關的委員來幫忙\n\n07:27.363 --> 07:54.349\n好謝謝部長的回答就是未來大家中央地方一條心那我也希望說我們立法院是沒辦法增加預算可是內政部可以協助這個消防署針對一些或警政署針對一些聽證老舊如果找到一些地方可以來遷移的或者是可以來協助這些住宿的一些問題大家一起來努力好不好謝謝好謝謝我們張助人委員的\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.273,"end":13.969,"text":"主席好 各位委員各位官員大家早安 是不是有請我們劉副長還有我們署長"},{"start":18.234,"end":42.668,"text":"謝謝部長、署長今天討論的是消防法的修法大家都知道在上次民洋火災之後消防人員上街抗議要求要組工會當時本席也在這邊跟署長跟部長請議針對他們當時要求的消防員第一個組工會的事情第二個針對他們的資訊落差的一個"},{"start":45.029,"end":47.61,"text":"五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":63.574,"end":67.315,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":83.319,"end":88.102,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":106.712,"end":116.737,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":128.823,"end":134.61,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":148.024,"end":172.05,"text":"所以我這邊昨天在質詢的時候請院長一定要督促秀山消防分隊提早來臨時編制。那昨天很感謝院長跟部長都從善如流。但是原文的部分請署長跟部長可以簡單來講一下,有沒有跟國際相比有沒有盡量來追上其他縣市分國際的標準?"},{"start":173.61,"end":187.883,"text":"張委員,等一下的部分我請署長回答,但是你昨天提到有關綜合秀山分隊的部分,我們已經有要求要跟國防部的軍備局來救那個臨時的辦工廠房的部分,他能不能延長到5年?好,非常感謝,非常感謝。"},{"start":188.604,"end":214.603,"text":"很感謝委員,消防人力現在是各縣市正在擴編,尤其情報化解釋含有人力的需求更大,所以縣市目前缺額全國缺額是1400位,目前現在正在考特考的學生呢,有2000、200位的報名,我們要錄取1000位,那如果說他的分數可以達到50分以上,我們可能考慮還要整個錄取,這是針對每年這個量,那每年1000的量,"},{"start":216.664,"end":221.651,"text":"五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":233.288,"end":241.512,"text":"三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、審查委員黃捷等17人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":259.02,"end":284.347,"text":"當你這個員額在增加的時候沒有想到我們有些老舊的廳舍完全這個空間不足啊來今天跟大家跟部長報告一下看到這個圖大家應該都嚇到齁這個我們所有的辛苦的消防人員除了現在天氣非常熱到外面就在一樣回到自己的寢室或者是休息室的時候發現四個人住在一間只有不到"},{"start":285.347,"end":290.648,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具"},{"start":306.812,"end":332.398,"text":"部長跟署長在增加人力的時候這個人還睡得下嗎?這個未來老舊宿舍老舊廳舍的問題要如何解決?老舊廳舍的問題有沒有去統整一下?內部裝修我們去年今年有針對150個分隊的內部像這個凌亂或者是不乾淨或者是有瘋癲這個目前已經在做後續還會繼續來執行"},{"start":334.818,"end":345.583,"text":"五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":364.773,"end":368.437,"text":"三、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":380.391,"end":398.605,"text":"若說委員關心秀山分隊。不是不是,我的這個不只秀山分隊,秀山分隊是還沒有,還連那個分隊都沒有出現,這是我們綜合其他的分隊,這個宿舍老舊的一個問題。那委員這樣好嗎,就是你有關提到這個宿舍老舊或是時間過久的部分,剛剛署長已經跟您報告是150處。"},{"start":400.486,"end":402.127,"text":"五、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":420.481,"end":425.185,"text":"如果社會住宅可以有這樣的一個空間或是有這樣子的時間出現的話我們的這個這個住住中心或是我們國土管理署就會來幫忙一方面也解決這個年輕的這個消防員未來他們的這個住家或是這個租屋的困難所以如果我們兩個可以結合的話會更好那尤其張委員所在的地區人口非常的稠密怎麼樣找到適合的空間恐怕邀請張委員或是相關的委員來幫忙"},{"start":447.363,"end":474.349,"text":"好 謝謝部長的回答就是未來大家中央地方一條心那我也希望說我們立法院是沒辦法增加預算可是內政部可以協助這個消防署針對一些或警政署針對一些聽證老舊如果找到一些地方可以來遷移的或者是可以來協助這些住宿的一些問題大家一起來努力好不好 謝謝好 謝謝我們張助人委員的"}]}}}}