{"id":154263,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154263","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd1d2d8440e5bff6620309e96bb535257173176ac657cb8ac9ce4ab110b5714ccc85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"10:51:54 - 11:05:55","影片長度":"00:14:01","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院委員馬文君等21人擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條、第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等25人、委員賴士葆等21人、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員羅智強等24人分別擬具「國軍老舊眷村改建條例第三條條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T10:51:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T11:05:55+08:00","duration":841,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":29,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-29"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":374,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時51分）謝謝主席，麻煩請顧部長還有梅總長。"],["主席：有請部長及總長。"],["顧部長立雄：馬委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長好，總長好久不見。這一次我們特別在委員會邀請，針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告，我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席，主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員都有詢問過，其實梅總長畢竟至少你是聞道有先後、術業有專攻，部長雖然曾經在國安會，不過我們這次漢光演習做了很多的變革，剛剛梅總長也可以侃侃而談，所以我想今天如果由您來說明，當然會是比較適合，然後也可以說明得很清楚，這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的排斥或什麼，其實我想大家都多慮了，就像我覺得我們每次的議題動不動就把藐視國會還有什麼調查權還有什麼聽證權統統拿上來上演一下，或者認知戰，我覺得這都非常多餘。因為剛剛總長也提到，我們是同島一命，那既然同島一命，我們所有現在在臺海情勢這麼緊張的情況之下，尤其在全世界認為前三大危險的區域，一個俄烏，一個就是以巴，然後一個就是我們的臺海，沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚地知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境，所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論，我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好？因為就像上一次我們去太平島，次長也跟我們去，還有處長也跟我們去，其實就是很簡單的一個目標跟理由還有方向，而且也很平順地回來了，沒有必要把它多做聯想，我們更不可能去製造很多的衝突，因為對我們來說一點幫助都沒有，我們連逃都逃不掉，所以就這個部分，我們希望可以很中立地來探討相關的問題。","因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面，不管是驗證去中心化也好，剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了，這一次我們做了很多新的調整跟作法，還有像我們接戰規定的小卡，還有取消展示科目、取消預演、預先校閱、取消假想敵或者強化夜間訓練等等，可是我們要詢問的一點是，我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了？會不會做？因為我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後，面對媒體的詢問，曾經說過作戰或者戰術層級的部分是交給參謀總長，部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注，所以今天是漢光四十號演習的專報，就這個部分，總長可以在百忙當中出席，我們希望可以有機會讓總長跟我們說明得更清楚一點，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我想可以請總長說明，不過我還是說明一下，我們對於戰略層級的部分，我想總長還是屬於我軍令的幕僚長，所以應該還是我這邊，我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的由總長來負責，這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的……"],["馬委員文君：國防二法以後，當然我們軍政、軍令還有軍備，其實主要的責任都會在國防部長，可是今天可以由雙方……因為部長剛接任，這麼多新的變革，如果有兩位一起來，我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道，所以其實目的很簡單，我們這一次在媒體報導裡面，今年以八軍團為主，在演習的前一個月傳出國防部被要求取消假想敵紅軍科目的這個部分，只有藍軍單方面的守衛，也就是取消假想敵這個部分，等於是兩棲登陸的聯興，還有空降作戰的聯雲操演會被取消，這一個部分是真的嗎？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：謝謝委員，也感謝委員的關心。首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲這兩個科目，這個是我們年度都會訓練的，一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目，另外一個是兩棲作戰的，確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面，原因是這兩個……我們臺澎防衛作戰是一個守勢作戰，這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力，一個是我們陸軍的特戰，然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊，他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務，他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他們守勢作戰的特定任務，所以我們這一次要求這些規劃、這些部隊應該要結合防衛作戰，因為我們漢光演習是為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習，所以說讓他原兵歸原位，這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置，應該去熟悉他的環境，應該知道他的指揮管制的關係，這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項，所以我們做這樣子的規劃，跟委員做個說明。"],["馬委員文君：總長，因為到去年之前，這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的演訓其實都是存在的，那聯興跟聯雲就我……因為剛剛有提到他們在守勢作戰，他們有另外一個安排要執行的項目，如果他們在被取消以後，他們會安排執行什麼？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：跟委員做個報告，我們在年度的聯興跟聯雲並沒有取消，它還是存在的。"],["馬委員文君：所以它在其他的時間點會做演練？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：其他的時間點還是會去做演練。"],["馬委員文君：不過總長，因為就軍事專家的解釋，陸軍特戰、傘兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時具有快速投射戰場的能力，所以聯興跟聯雲的操演，他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練，這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位，可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的，我們現在想要理解的是，因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢，除了大陸解放軍以外，還有其他國家比如說像越南，他們也是虎視眈眈，所以陸戰隊外島的衛疆規復作戰能力，不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎？如果沒有這樣做的話，全部都是守勢，未來如果發生作戰，要收復外離島的時候，我們有能力執行嗎？因為畢竟我們有很多的外離島，不是只有太平島，也不是只有更遠的，我們還有周邊的外離島，通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲，主要就是我們規復作戰的能力，所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的驗證？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：謝謝委員關切，其實在7月初我們的聯興演習就會執行完畢，剛才委員關切兩棲作戰任務，它的總能還有整體的部分，我們並沒有因為未納入漢光演習而有任何調整；聯雲演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行。我們是在綜合考量下，先把漢光聚焦在……剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點，它不僅是我們防衛作戰重要的部隊，其實它有兼顧其他兩棲作戰的能力，還有快速空機降的能力。這些總能我們不會做任何取消，希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰任務。"],["馬委員文君：對，總長有一直提到我們現在重心都放在防衛作戰，像不同的作戰特性，尤其是這兩個，未來會安排到什麼樣的地方？比如說，陸軍特戰有很多他們可以做，他們要做這些相關的業務嗎？因為時間的關係，在這裡我特別要提到，我們為什麼在這裡詢問？總長其實已經把未來可能的作戰方向點出來，可是我們還是希望你們針對聯興、聯雲可能的作戰任務調整，或是做什麼樣的調整，給我們相關的資訊，好不好？"],["梅參謀總長家樹：是的。"],["馬委員文君：就這個部分，我們希望不是什麼都是秘密，其實我們很希望更透明，因為我們是一個民主法治的國家，應該讓全體國人知道我們現在是什麼樣的處境，這是我們今天特別邀請梅總長來很重要的因素。","接下來請總長先回座，我借一點點時間請教部長。部長，您上任以後有提到未來國防預算會增加，很多武器裝備可能也會做更多採購，或者怎麼樣部署。可是我們最近看到媒體報導，國防部從俄烏戰爭當中看到烏克蘭利用遠端遙控自殺無人快艇，重創俄軍黑海艦隊、大型艦艇的戰績，所以中科院以代號「快奇專案」科研，用了2億5,000萬，大概兩億多的經費，要研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係，今天我先請教一下，我們看到烏克蘭在2024黑海安全論壇上公開「潛行者5」新型海上無人艇，單價大概是兩百多萬，就是6萬歐元，它具備150公斤的彈頭重量，航程高達600公里，最高速度可以達每小時75公里，而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇，每艘也只要新臺幣600萬。可是中科院現在科研的一艘高達5、6,000萬，如果再把其他的導控還有載台全部放進來就不只了，比它至少貴了十倍以上。今天我們希望把國防預算用在刀口上，我們有需要，可是我們需要用到這麼貴……因為它是消耗品，是進行自殺式的攻擊，去了就不會回來，你需要用到這麼貴的金額做這樣的科研嗎？它都已經非常成熟了。這個部分部長是不是有什麼簡單的看法？"],["顧部長立雄：有一些東西在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到，這是一個要考量的……"],["馬委員文君：部長，無人機可以買到，小型無人艇的船體非常簡單，國內很多船廠都可以做，我們為什麼要花這麼高額的預算下去做這樣的科研？我今天先提出來，這個部分請國防部還有中科院……因為到現在還沒有提供比較詳細的資料。這個人家已經用了，而且非常成熟，它只要兩百多萬，甚至現役的只要600萬，我們一艘卻要6,000萬，這是非常離譜的，你以後量產更不得了，而且如果把導控跟其他的再算進去，平均一艘的成本算得出來嗎？院長。"],["張院長忠誠：是。"],["馬委員文君：好，就這個部分我先提出來，我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料。如果不恰當，希望你們可以修正，甚至研議怎麼樣採購成熟的武器裝備。我相信其實並不困難，無人機或者其他的都可以買到了，這個不會有困難。部長，請你們下去檢視跟調整，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：好，我們會進行研議，將委員的建議納入考量。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。貴得太離譜了。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員。","接下來由沈伯洋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":48,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-29","speakers":["馬文君","賴士葆","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","黃國昌","林楚茵","王定宇","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","洪申翰","徐巧芯","林憶君","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","吳沛憶","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長顧立雄率參謀總長報告「漢光四十號演習」規劃情形，並備質詢；二、審查\n本院委員馬文君等 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0.904}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 831.093, \"end\": 831.393, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 831.393, \"end\": 831.813, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 831.813, \"end\": 832.133, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 832.133, \"end\": 832.294, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 832.294, \"end\": 833.815, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 833.815, \"end\": 834.055, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 834.055, \"end\": 834.215, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 834.215, \"end\": 834.315, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"譜\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 834.315, \"end\": 834.375, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 834.375, \"end\": 834.595, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 834.595, \"end\": 834.735, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"君\", \"start\": 834.735, \"end\": 835.036, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 835.036, \"end\": 835.476, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 835.476, \"end\": 835.616, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 835.616, \"end\": 835.916, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 835.916, \"end\": 836.177, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"沈\", \"start\": 836.177, \"end\": 836.397, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"博\", \"start\": 836.397, \"end\": 836.577, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"洋\", \"start\": 836.577, \"end\": 836.857, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 836.857, \"end\": 836.997, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 836.997, \"end\": 837.017, \"score\": 0.118}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,815 --> 00:00:01,783\n有請部長及總長\n\n2\n00:00:08,439 --> 00:00:31,339\n市委馬委員好部長好總長好久不見這一次我們特別在委員會邀請針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告那我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員其實都有詢問過\n\n3\n00:00:33,721 --> 00:00:48,156\n那其實梅總長畢竟至少你是文道有先後、書業有專攻嘛那部長雖然曾經在國安會不過我們這一次漢光演習做了很多的變革那剛剛\n\n4\n00:00:49,918 --> 00:01:03,455\n每總長也可以侃侃而談所以我想今天如果由您來說明當然會是比較適合然後也可以說明得很清楚那這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的一個\n\n5\n00:01:06,598 --> 00:01:12,723\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n\n6\n00:01:35,282 --> 00:01:57,537\n前三大危險的區域一個俄烏一個就是以巴然後一個就是我們的台海那沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚的知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好因為就像上一次我們去太平島次長也跟我們去還有處長也跟我們去其實就是很簡單的\n\n7\n00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:09,564\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n8\n00:02:17,208 --> 00:02:23,434\n所以就這個部分我們希望可以很中立的可以來探討這樣相關的問題因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面不管是驗證去中心化也好剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了\n\n9\n00:02:52,512 --> 00:03:08,111\n在這裡要詢問的一點是我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了會不會做因為就上一次我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後面對媒體的詢問曾經說過作戰或者戰術成績的部分是交給參謀總長\n\n10\n00:03:12,856 --> 00:03:33,921\n那部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注所以今天漢光四十號演習的專報就這個部分總長可以在百忙當中出席我們希望可以有機會可以讓總長跟我們說明的更清楚一點好不好\n\n11\n00:03:34,621 --> 00:03:45,408\n我想可以請總長說明,不過我還是說明一下我們對於戰略層級的部分,我想總長還是屬於我駐軍令的幕僚長,所以應該還是我這邊,那我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的\n\n12\n00:03:51,651 --> 00:03:58,154\n由總長來負責這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的一個國防二法以後當然我們軍政軍令還有軍備其實主要的責任都會在國防部長可是今天可以由雙方因為部長剛接任那這麼多的一個新的變革如果有兩位一起來我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道所以其實目的很簡單\n\n13\n00:04:19,062 --> 00:04:31,808\n二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n\n14\n00:04:38,211 --> 00:04:46,401\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n15\n00:04:51,094 --> 00:05:12,305\n謝謝委員﹚感謝委員的關心首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲的這兩個科目這個是我們年度都會訓練的一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目另外一個是兩棲作戰的這個確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面\n\n16\n00:05:13,906 --> 00:05:35,464\n原因是這兩個都我們台、台澎防衛作戰是一個首次作戰那這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力一個是我們的陸軍的特戰然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他\n\n17\n00:05:36,684 --> 00:06:00,135\n首次作戰的特定任務所以我們這一次要求這些規劃這些的部隊應該要結合防衛作戰因為我們漢光演習為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習所以說讓他援兵歸援衛這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置應該去熟悉他的環境應該知道他的指揮管制的關係\n\n18\n00:06:01,495 --> 00:06:07,480\n這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項所以我們做這樣子的規劃跟委員做個說明總長因為到去年之前這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的這個演訓其實都是存在的那聯興跟聯雲就我們因為剛剛有提到他們在首次作戰他們有另外的一個安排要執行的項目如果他們在被取消以後他們會安排執行什麼\n\n19\n00:06:30,741 --> 00:06:41,664\n跟委員做個報告,我們在年度的這個聯興跟聯營並沒有取消,它還是存在的。所以它在其他的時間點會做演練。不過,總長,因為就軍事專家的解釋,陸軍特戰散兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時它具有快速投射戰場的能力。\n\n20\n00:06:53,968 --> 00:07:13,955\n所以聯興跟聯雲的操演他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的我們現在想要理解的是因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢除了大陸解放軍以外還有其他國家比如說像越南他們也是虎視眈眈\n\n21\n00:07:21,218 --> 00:07:27,901\n所以如果說陸戰隊外島的未將恢復作戰能力不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練然後來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎那如果這樣子沒有這樣做的話全部都是手勢未來如果發生作戰要收復外離島的時候我們有能力執行嗎\n\n22\n00:07:41,087 --> 00:08:04,073\n因為畢竟我們還有很多的外離島不是只有太平島也不是只有更遠的我們還有周邊的外離島那我們通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲他主要就是我們歸附作戰的這樣子的一個能力所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的一個驗證謝謝委員關鍵我們其實在7月初的時候我們的聯興演習\n\n23\n00:08:10,575 --> 00:08:29,943\n就會執行完畢所以他的剛才委員所關切的他的任務兩棲作戰的任務他的總能還有他的這些的一個整體的我們並沒有因為沒有納入那個漢光演習而有任何的調整那聯勇演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行\n\n24\n00:08:31,536 --> 00:08:56,779\n所以說這個我們是在一個綜合考量下先把漢光聚焦在因為剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點他不僅是我們防衛作戰的這個重要的部隊其實他也還有兼顧其他的他的兩棲作戰的能力還有這個快速這些的空機降的這個能力我們這些的總能我們不會去做他的這個這個做任何的取消\n\n25\n00:08:57,239 --> 00:09:01,848\n但是希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰的任務對\n\n26\n00:09:03,898 --> 00:09:13,487\n總長您有一直提到我們現在其實把重心都放在防衛作戰那所以其實像他們不同的一個作戰特性尤其是他們這兩個那他們未來會安排到什麼樣的地方比如說像陸軍特戰其實他們有很多他們都可以做的你是要把這個都做他們的這些相關的業務嗎因為時間的關係\n\n27\n00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,241\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n28\n00:09:45,419 --> 00:09:45,759\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n29\n00:10:06,699 --> 00:10:16,122\n則是我們今天特別邀請梅總長可以來的一個很重要的因素。接下來請總長先回座。我借一點點時間來請教部長。部長,因為您上任以後有提到我們未來國防預算會增加,然後我們會有很多的\n\n30\n00:10:29,725 --> 00:10:43,895\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王�\n\n31\n00:10:47,057 --> 00:11:10,453\n自殺無人快艇重創俄軍黑海艦隊大型艦艇的戰機,所以中科院以代號快期專案科研用了兩億五千萬,大概兩億多的經費去研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係,今天我先請教一下,我們看到烏克蘭\n\n32\n00:11:11,374 --> 00:11:17,759\n在他的新型的2024黑海安全論壇上面公開的潛行者五新型的海上無人艇單價大概是兩百多萬就是六萬歐元\n\n33\n00:11:27,546 --> 00:11:47,844\n他具備150公斤的彈頭重量,航程高達600公里,最高速度可以達每小時75公里而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇,每艘也只要新台幣600萬可是我們中科院現在在科研的一艘高達五、六千萬\n\n34\n00:11:49,165 --> 00:12:11,600\n如果再把其他的導控還有他的站台全部放進來其實就不止了比他至少貴了十倍以上今天我們希望把國防預算用在島口上我們有需要可是我們需要用到這麼貴因為它是消耗品它是自殺式的供給所以去了就不會回來那你需要用到這麼貴的\n\n35\n00:12:13,242 --> 00:12:20,879\n經而去做這樣的科研嗎?他都已經非常成熟了。那這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的簡單的一個看法?\n\n36\n00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:27,302\n我想有一些東西就是說在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到這是一個要考慮的事情部長無人機可以買到這個船艦這個小型的無人艇船體非常簡單這個我們國內很多的船廠都可以做所以我們為什麼要花這麼高的預算\n\n37\n00:12:43,126 --> 00:12:49,257\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n38\n00:12:54,548 --> 00:13:01,910\n議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員\n\n39\n00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:28,523\n就這個部分我先提出來我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料如果不恰當希望你們可以做修正甚至怎麼樣去採購這樣成熟的這樣的一個武器裝備我相信其實並不困難我們無人機比較或者其他的都可以買到了這個不會有困難部長請你們下去做一個檢視跟調整好不好\n\n40\n00:13:45,148 --> 00:13:57,017\n好,我們會來進行研議,然後將這個委員的建議來納入我們思考的方案。好,謝謝,會得太離譜了,謝謝。好,謝謝馬文君委員。接下來由沈博洋委員發言。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n815\t1783\t有請部長及總長\n8439\t31339\t市委馬委員好部長好總長好久不見這一次我們特別在委員會邀請針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告那我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員其實都有詢問過\n33721\t48156\t那其實梅總長畢竟至少你是文道有先後、書業有專攻嘛那部長雖然曾經在國安會不過我們這一次漢光演習做了很多的變革那剛剛\n49918\t63455\t每總長也可以侃侃而談所以我想今天如果由您來說明當然會是比較適合然後也可以說明得很清楚那這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的一個\n66598\t72723\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n95282\t117537\t前三大危險的區域一個俄烏一個就是以巴然後一個就是我們的台海那沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚的知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好因為就像上一次我們去太平島次長也跟我們去還有處長也跟我們去其實就是很簡單的\n121640\t129564\t委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n137208\t143434\t所以就這個部分我們希望可以很中立的可以來探討這樣相關的問題因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面不管是驗證去中心化也好剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了\n154906\t172432\t議員議員\n172512\t188111\t在這裡要詢問的一點是我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了會不會做因為就上一次我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後面對媒體的詢問曾經說過作戰或者戰術成績的部分是交給參謀總長\n192856\t213921\t那部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注所以今天漢光四十號演習的專報就這個部分總長可以在百忙當中出席我們希望可以有機會可以讓總長跟我們說明的更清楚一點好不好\n214621\t225408\t我想可以請總長說明,不過我還是說明一下我們對於戰略層級的部分,我想總長還是屬於我駐軍令的幕僚長,所以應該還是我這邊,那我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的\n231651\t238154\t由總長來負責這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的一個國防二法以後當然我們軍政軍令還有軍備其實主要的責任都會在國防部長可是今天可以由雙方因為部長剛接任那這麼多的一個新的變革如果有兩位一起來我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道所以其實目的很簡單\n259062\t271808\t二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n278211\t286401\t委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n291094\t312305\t謝謝委員﹚感謝委員的關心首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲的這兩個科目這個是我們年度都會訓練的一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目另外一個是兩棲作戰的這個確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面\n313906\t335464\t原因是這兩個都我們台、台澎防衛作戰是一個首次作戰那這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力一個是我們的陸軍的特戰然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他\n336684\t360135\t首次作戰的特定任務所以我們這一次要求這些規劃這些的部隊應該要結合防衛作戰因為我們漢光演習為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習所以說讓他援兵歸援衛這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置應該去熟悉他的環境應該知道他的指揮管制的關係\n361495\t367480\t這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項所以我們做這樣子的規劃跟委員做個說明總長因為到去年之前這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的這個演訓其實都是存在的那聯興跟聯雲就我們因為剛剛有提到他們在首次作戰他們有另外的一個安排要執行的項目如果他們在被取消以後他們會安排執行什麼\n390741\t401664\t跟委員做個報告,我們在年度的這個聯興跟聯營並沒有取消,它還是存在的。所以它在其他的時間點會做演練。不過,總長,因為就軍事專家的解釋,陸軍特戰散兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時它具有快速投射戰場的能力。\n413968\t433955\t所以聯興跟聯雲的操演他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的我們現在想要理解的是因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢除了大陸解放軍以外還有其他國家比如說像越南他們也是虎視眈眈\n441218\t447901\t所以如果說陸戰隊外島的未將恢復作戰能力不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練然後來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎那如果這樣子沒有這樣做的話全部都是手勢未來如果發生作戰要收復外離島的時候我們有能力執行嗎\n461087\t484073\t因為畢竟我們還有很多的外離島不是只有太平島也不是只有更遠的我們還有周邊的外離島那我們通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲他主要就是我們歸附作戰的這樣子的一個能力所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的一個驗證謝謝委員關鍵我們其實在7月初的時候我們的聯興演習\n490575\t509943\t就會執行完畢所以他的剛才委員所關切的他的任務兩棲作戰的任務他的總能還有他的這些的一個整體的我們並沒有因為沒有納入那個漢光演習而有任何的調整那聯勇演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行\n511536\t536779\t所以說這個我們是在一個綜合考量下先把漢光聚焦在因為剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點他不僅是我們防衛作戰的這個重要的部隊其實他也還有兼顧其他的他的兩棲作戰的能力還有這個快速這些的空機降的這個能力我們這些的總能我們不會去做他的這個這個做任何的取消\n537239\t541848\t但是希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰的任務對\n543898\t553487\t總長您有一直提到我們現在其實把重心都放在防衛作戰那所以其實像他們不同的一個作戰特性尤其是他們這兩個那他們未來會安排到什麼樣的地方比如說像陸軍特戰其實他們有很多他們都可以做的你是要把這個都做他們的這些相關的業務嗎因為時間的關係\n568440\t569241\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n585419\t585759\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n606699\t616122\t則是我們今天特別邀請梅總長可以來的一個很重要的因素。接下來請總長先回座。我借一點點時間來請教部長。部長,因為您上任以後有提到我們未來國防預算會增加,然後我們會有很多的\n629725\t643895\t三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王�\n647057\t670453\t自殺無人快艇重創俄軍黑海艦隊大型艦艇的戰機,所以中科院以代號快期專案科研用了兩億五千萬,大概兩億多的經費去研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係,今天我先請教一下,我們看到烏克蘭\n671374\t677759\t在他的新型的2024黑海安全論壇上面公開的潛行者五新型的海上無人艇單價大概是兩百多萬就是六萬歐元\n687546\t707844\t他具備150公斤的彈頭重量,航程高達600公里,最高速度可以達每小時75公里而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇,每艘也只要新台幣600萬可是我們中科院現在在科研的一艘高達五、六千萬\n709165\t731600\t如果再把其他的導控還有他的站台全部放進來其實就不止了比他至少貴了十倍以上今天我們希望把國防預算用在島口上我們有需要可是我們需要用到這麼貴因為它是消耗品它是自殺式的供給所以去了就不會回來那你需要用到這麼貴的\n733242\t740879\t經而去做這樣的科研嗎?他都已經非常成熟了。那這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的簡單的一個看法?\n742140\t747302\t我想有一些東西就是說在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到這是一個要考慮的事情部長無人機可以買到這個船艦這個小型的無人艇船體非常簡單這個我們國內很多的船廠都可以做所以我們為什麼要花這麼高的預算\n763126\t769257\t委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n774548\t781910\t議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員\n799700\t808523\t就這個部分我先提出來我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料如果不恰當希望你們可以做修正甚至怎麼樣去採購這樣成熟的這樣的一個武器裝備我相信其實並不困難我們無人機比較或者其他的都可以買到了這個不會有困難部長請你們下去做一個檢視跟調整好不好\n825148\t837017\t好,我們會來進行研議,然後將這個委員的建議來納入我們思考的方案。好,謝謝,會得太離譜了,謝謝。好,謝謝馬文君委員。接下來由沈博洋委員發言。\n","txt":"有請部長及總長\n市委馬委員好部長好總長好久不見這一次我們特別在委員會邀請針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告那我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員其實都有詢問過\n那其實梅總長畢竟至少你是文道有先後、書業有專攻嘛那部長雖然曾經在國安會不過我們這一次漢光演習做了很多的變革那剛剛\n每總長也可以侃侃而談所以我想今天如果由您來說明當然會是比較適合然後也可以說明得很清楚那這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的一個\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n前三大危險的區域一個俄烏一個就是以巴然後一個就是我們的台海那沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚的知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好因為就像上一次我們去太平島次長也跟我們去還有處長也跟我們去其實就是很簡單的\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n所以就這個部分我們希望可以很中立的可以來探討這樣相關的問題因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面不管是驗證去中心化也好剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了\n議員議員\n在這裡要詢問的一點是我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了會不會做因為就上一次我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後面對媒體的詢問曾經說過作戰或者戰術成績的部分是交給參謀總長\n那部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注所以今天漢光四十號演習的專報就這個部分總長可以在百忙當中出席我們希望可以有機會可以讓總長跟我們說明的更清楚一點好不好\n我想可以請總長說明,不過我還是說明一下我們對於戰略層級的部分,我想總長還是屬於我駐軍令的幕僚長,所以應該還是我這邊,那我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的\n由總長來負責這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的一個國防二法以後當然我們軍政軍令還有軍備其實主要的責任都會在國防部長可是今天可以由雙方因為部長剛接任那這麼多的一個新的變革如果有兩位一起來我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道所以其實目的很簡單\n二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n謝謝委員﹚感謝委員的關心首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲的這兩個科目這個是我們年度都會訓練的一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目另外一個是兩棲作戰的這個確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面\n原因是這兩個都我們台、台澎防衛作戰是一個首次作戰那這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力一個是我們的陸軍的特戰然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他\n首次作戰的特定任務所以我們這一次要求這些規劃這些的部隊應該要結合防衛作戰因為我們漢光演習為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習所以說讓他援兵歸援衛這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置應該去熟悉他的環境應該知道他的指揮管制的關係\n這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項所以我們做這樣子的規劃跟委員做個說明總長因為到去年之前這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的這個演訓其實都是存在的那聯興跟聯雲就我們因為剛剛有提到他們在首次作戰他們有另外的一個安排要執行的項目如果他們在被取消以後他們會安排執行什麼\n跟委員做個報告,我們在年度的這個聯興跟聯營並沒有取消,它還是存在的。所以它在其他的時間點會做演練。不過,總長,因為就軍事專家的解釋,陸軍特戰散兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時它具有快速投射戰場的能力。\n所以聯興跟聯雲的操演他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的我們現在想要理解的是因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢除了大陸解放軍以外還有其他國家比如說像越南他們也是虎視眈眈\n所以如果說陸戰隊外島的未將恢復作戰能力不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練然後來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎那如果這樣子沒有這樣做的話全部都是手勢未來如果發生作戰要收復外離島的時候我們有能力執行嗎\n因為畢竟我們還有很多的外離島不是只有太平島也不是只有更遠的我們還有周邊的外離島那我們通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲他主要就是我們歸附作戰的這樣子的一個能力所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的一個驗證謝謝委員關鍵我們其實在7月初的時候我們的聯興演習\n就會執行完畢所以他的剛才委員所關切的他的任務兩棲作戰的任務他的總能還有他的這些的一個整體的我們並沒有因為沒有納入那個漢光演習而有任何的調整那聯勇演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行\n所以說這個我們是在一個綜合考量下先把漢光聚焦在因為剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點他不僅是我們防衛作戰的這個重要的部隊其實他也還有兼顧其他的他的兩棲作戰的能力還有這個快速這些的空機降的這個能力我們這些的總能我們不會去做他的這個這個做任何的取消\n但是希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰的任務對\n總長您有一直提到我們現在其實把重心都放在防衛作戰那所以其實像他們不同的一個作戰特性尤其是他們這兩個那他們未來會安排到什麼樣的地方比如說像陸軍特戰其實他們有很多他們都可以做的你是要把這個都做他們的這些相關的業務嗎因為時間的關係\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n則是我們今天特別邀請梅總長可以來的一個很重要的因素。接下來請總長先回座。我借一點點時間來請教部長。部長,因為您上任以後有提到我們未來國防預算會增加,然後我們會有很多的\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王�\n自殺無人快艇重創俄軍黑海艦隊大型艦艇的戰機,所以中科院以代號快期專案科研用了兩億五千萬,大概兩億多的經費去研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係,今天我先請教一下,我們看到烏克蘭\n在他的新型的2024黑海安全論壇上面公開的潛行者五新型的海上無人艇單價大概是兩百多萬就是六萬歐元\n他具備150公斤的彈頭重量,航程高達600公里,最高速度可以達每小時75公里而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇,每艘也只要新台幣600萬可是我們中科院現在在科研的一艘高達五、六千萬\n如果再把其他的導控還有他的站台全部放進來其實就不止了比他至少貴了十倍以上今天我們希望把國防預算用在島口上我們有需要可是我們需要用到這麼貴因為它是消耗品它是自殺式的供給所以去了就不會回來那你需要用到這麼貴的\n經而去做這樣的科研嗎?他都已經非常成熟了。那這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的簡單的一個看法?\n我想有一些東西就是說在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到這是一個要考慮的事情部長無人機可以買到這個船艦這個小型的無人艇船體非常簡單這個我們國內很多的船廠都可以做所以我們為什麼要花這麼高的預算\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員\n就這個部分我先提出來我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料如果不恰當希望你們可以做修正甚至怎麼樣去採購這樣成熟的這樣的一個武器裝備我相信其實並不困難我們無人機比較或者其他的都可以買到了這個不會有困難部長請你們下去做一個檢視跟調整好不好\n好,我們會來進行研議,然後將這個委員的建議來納入我們思考的方案。好,謝謝,會得太離譜了,謝謝。好,謝謝馬文君委員。接下來由沈博洋委員發言。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.815 --> 00:01.783\n有請部長及總長\n\n00:08.439 --> 00:31.339\n市委馬委員好部長好總長好久不見這一次我們特別在委員會邀請針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告那我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員其實都有詢問過\n\n00:33.721 --> 00:48.156\n那其實梅總長畢竟至少你是文道有先後、書業有專攻嘛那部長雖然曾經在國安會不過我們這一次漢光演習做了很多的變革那剛剛\n\n00:49.918 --> 01:03.455\n每總長也可以侃侃而談所以我想今天如果由您來說明當然會是比較適合然後也可以說明得很清楚那這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的一個\n\n01:06.598 --> 01:12.723\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、\n\n01:35.282 --> 01:57.537\n前三大危險的區域一個俄烏一個就是以巴然後一個就是我們的台海那沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚的知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好因為就像上一次我們去太平島次長也跟我們去還有處長也跟我們去其實就是很簡單的\n\n02:01.640 --> 02:09.564\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n02:17.208 --> 02:23.434\n所以就這個部分我們希望可以很中立的可以來探討這樣相關的問題因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面不管是驗證去中心化也好剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了\n\n02:52.512 --> 03:08.111\n在這裡要詢問的一點是我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了會不會做因為就上一次我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後面對媒體的詢問曾經說過作戰或者戰術成績的部分是交給參謀總長\n\n03:12.856 --> 03:33.921\n那部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注所以今天漢光四十號演習的專報就這個部分總長可以在百忙當中出席我們希望可以有機會可以讓總長跟我們說明的更清楚一點好不好\n\n03:34.621 --> 03:45.408\n我想可以請總長說明,不過我還是說明一下我們對於戰略層級的部分,我想總長還是屬於我駐軍令的幕僚長,所以應該還是我這邊,那我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的\n\n03:51.651 --> 03:58.154\n由總長來負責這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的一個國防二法以後當然我們軍政軍令還有軍備其實主要的責任都會在國防部長可是今天可以由雙方因為部長剛接任那這麼多的一個新的變革如果有兩位一起來我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道所以其實目的很簡單\n\n04:19.062 --> 04:31.808\n二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委\n\n04:38.211 --> 04:46.401\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n04:51.094 --> 05:12.305\n謝謝委員﹚感謝委員的關心首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲的這兩個科目這個是我們年度都會訓練的一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目另外一個是兩棲作戰的這個確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面\n\n05:13.906 --> 05:35.464\n原因是這兩個都我們台、台澎防衛作戰是一個首次作戰那這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力一個是我們的陸軍的特戰然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他\n\n05:36.684 --> 06:00.135\n首次作戰的特定任務所以我們這一次要求這些規劃這些的部隊應該要結合防衛作戰因為我們漢光演習為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習所以說讓他援兵歸援衛這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置應該去熟悉他的環境應該知道他的指揮管制的關係\n\n06:01.495 --> 06:07.480\n這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項所以我們做這樣子的規劃跟委員做個說明總長因為到去年之前這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的這個演訓其實都是存在的那聯興跟聯雲就我們因為剛剛有提到他們在首次作戰他們有另外的一個安排要執行的項目如果他們在被取消以後他們會安排執行什麼\n\n06:30.741 --> 06:41.664\n跟委員做個報告,我們在年度的這個聯興跟聯營並沒有取消,它還是存在的。所以它在其他的時間點會做演練。不過,總長,因為就軍事專家的解釋,陸軍特戰散兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時它具有快速投射戰場的能力。\n\n06:53.968 --> 07:13.955\n所以聯興跟聯雲的操演他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的我們現在想要理解的是因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢除了大陸解放軍以外還有其他國家比如說像越南他們也是虎視眈眈\n\n07:21.218 --> 07:27.901\n所以如果說陸戰隊外島的未將恢復作戰能力不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練然後來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎那如果這樣子沒有這樣做的話全部都是手勢未來如果發生作戰要收復外離島的時候我們有能力執行嗎\n\n07:41.087 --> 08:04.073\n因為畢竟我們還有很多的外離島不是只有太平島也不是只有更遠的我們還有周邊的外離島那我們通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲他主要就是我們歸附作戰的這樣子的一個能力所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的一個驗證謝謝委員關鍵我們其實在7月初的時候我們的聯興演習\n\n08:10.575 --> 08:29.943\n就會執行完畢所以他的剛才委員所關切的他的任務兩棲作戰的任務他的總能還有他的這些的一個整體的我們並沒有因為沒有納入那個漢光演習而有任何的調整那聯勇演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行\n\n08:31.536 --> 08:56.779\n所以說這個我們是在一個綜合考量下先把漢光聚焦在因為剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點他不僅是我們防衛作戰的這個重要的部隊其實他也還有兼顧其他的他的兩棲作戰的能力還有這個快速這些的空機降的這個能力我們這些的總能我們不會去做他的這個這個做任何的取消\n\n08:57.239 --> 09:01.848\n但是希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰的任務對\n\n09:03.898 --> 09:13.487\n總長您有一直提到我們現在其實把重心都放在防衛作戰那所以其實像他們不同的一個作戰特性尤其是他們這兩個那他們未來會安排到什麼樣的地方比如說像陸軍特戰其實他們有很多他們都可以做的你是要把這個都做他們的這些相關的業務嗎因為時間的關係\n\n09:28.440 --> 09:29.241\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n09:45.419 --> 09:45.759\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2\n\n10:06.699 --> 10:16.122\n則是我們今天特別邀請梅總長可以來的一個很重要的因素。接下來請總長先回座。我借一點點時間來請教部長。部長,因為您上任以後有提到我們未來國防預算會增加,然後我們會有很多的\n\n10:29.725 --> 10:43.895\n三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王�\n\n10:47.057 --> 11:10.453\n自殺無人快艇重創俄軍黑海艦隊大型艦艇的戰機,所以中科院以代號快期專案科研用了兩億五千萬,大概兩億多的經費去研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係,今天我先請教一下,我們看到烏克蘭\n\n11:11.374 --> 11:17.759\n在他的新型的2024黑海安全論壇上面公開的潛行者五新型的海上無人艇單價大概是兩百多萬就是六萬歐元\n\n11:27.546 --> 11:47.844\n他具備150公斤的彈頭重量,航程高達600公里,最高速度可以達每小時75公里而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇,每艘也只要新台幣600萬可是我們中科院現在在科研的一艘高達五、六千萬\n\n11:49.165 --> 12:11.600\n如果再把其他的導控還有他的站台全部放進來其實就不止了比他至少貴了十倍以上今天我們希望把國防預算用在島口上我們有需要可是我們需要用到這麼貴因為它是消耗品它是自殺式的供給所以去了就不會回來那你需要用到這麼貴的\n\n12:13.242 --> 12:20.879\n經而去做這樣的科研嗎?他都已經非常成熟了。那這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的簡單的一個看法?\n\n12:22.140 --> 12:27.302\n我想有一些東西就是說在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到這是一個要考慮的事情部長無人機可以買到這個船艦這個小型的無人艇船體非常簡單這個我們國內很多的船廠都可以做所以我們為什麼要花這麼高的預算\n\n12:43.126 --> 12:49.257\n委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇\n\n12:54.548 --> 13:01.910\n議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員\n\n13:19.700 --> 13:28.523\n就這個部分我先提出來我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料如果不恰當希望你們可以做修正甚至怎麼樣去採購這樣成熟的這樣的一個武器裝備我相信其實並不困難我們無人機比較或者其他的都可以買到了這個不會有困難部長請你們下去做一個檢視跟調整好不好\n\n13:45.148 --> 13:57.017\n好,我們會來進行研議,然後將這個委員的建議來納入我們思考的方案。好,謝謝,會得太離譜了,謝謝。好,謝謝馬文君委員。接下來由沈博洋委員發言。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.815,"end":1.783,"text":"有請部長及總長"},{"start":8.439,"end":31.339,"text":"市委馬委員好部長好總長好久不見這一次我們特別在委員會邀請針對國防部就漢光四十號演習規劃的情形進行專案報告那我們特別邀請參謀總長梅上將可以列席主要是剛剛其實有很多位委員其實都有詢問過"},{"start":33.721,"end":48.156,"text":"那其實梅總長畢竟至少你是文道有先後、書業有專攻嘛那部長雖然曾經在國安會不過我們這一次漢光演習做了很多的變革那剛剛"},{"start":49.918,"end":63.455,"text":"每總長也可以侃侃而談所以我想今天如果由您來說明當然會是比較適合然後也可以說明得很清楚那這個跟部長是不是在權限上面有什麼樣的一個"},{"start":66.598,"end":72.723,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、"},{"start":95.282,"end":117.537,"text":"前三大危險的區域一個俄烏一個就是以巴然後一個就是我們的台海那沒有理由不讓我們所有的國人更清楚的知道我們應該面對什麼樣的環境所以我們不管就什麼樣的議題討論我們希望都是朝正面來看待好不好因為就像上一次我們去太平島次長也跟我們去還有處長也跟我們去其實就是很簡單的"},{"start":121.64,"end":129.564,"text":"委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇"},{"start":137.208,"end":143.434,"text":"所以就這個部分我們希望可以很中立的可以來探討這樣相關的問題因為這一次我們在漢光演習裡面不管是驗證去中心化也好剛剛總長說這個部分已經好幾年了"},{"start":154.906,"end":172.432,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":172.512,"end":188.111,"text":"在這裡要詢問的一點是我們演習驗證的科目哪裡去了會不會做因為就上一次我們這一次特別請總長很重要的一個原因也是因為部長上任以後面對媒體的詢問曾經說過作戰或者戰術成績的部分是交給參謀總長"},{"start":192.856,"end":213.921,"text":"那部長是對於軍政還有軍備的事務會比較專注所以今天漢光四十號演習的專報就這個部分總長可以在百忙當中出席我們希望可以有機會可以讓總長跟我們說明的更清楚一點好不好"},{"start":214.621,"end":225.408,"text":"我想可以請總長說明,不過我還是說明一下我們對於戰略層級的部分,我想總長還是屬於我駐軍令的幕僚長,所以應該還是我這邊,那我只是說明說作戰跟戰術層級的"},{"start":231.651,"end":238.154,"text":"由總長來負責這我想也是符合國防部組織法相關的一個國防二法以後當然我們軍政軍令還有軍備其實主要的責任都會在國防部長可是今天可以由雙方因為部長剛接任那這麼多的一個新的變革如果有兩位一起來我相信其實會可以更四平八穩讓大家知道所以其實目的很簡單"},{"start":259.062,"end":271.808,"text":"二、審查本院委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委"},{"start":278.211,"end":286.401,"text":"委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇"},{"start":291.094,"end":312.305,"text":"謝謝委員﹚感謝委員的關心首先說明剛才委員關切的聯興跟聯雲的這兩個科目這個是我們年度都會訓練的一個是空降的還有反空降的聯合作戰的科目另外一個是兩棲作戰的這個確實在今年我們沒有排入到漢光演習裡面"},{"start":313.906,"end":335.464,"text":"原因是這兩個都我們台、台澎防衛作戰是一個首次作戰那這兩個部隊的主要成員是有兩個非常關鍵的戰力一個是我們的陸軍的特戰然後第二個是我們的海軍陸戰隊他們在防衛作戰都有他們特定的任務他們在防衛作戰的時候都有他"},{"start":336.684,"end":360.135,"text":"首次作戰的特定任務所以我們這一次要求這些規劃這些的部隊應該要結合防衛作戰因為我們漢光演習為了我們防衛作戰的目的而設定的演習所以說讓他援兵歸援衛這些特戰的兵力應該到他的戰術位置應該去熟悉他的環境應該知道他的指揮管制的關係"},{"start":361.495,"end":367.48,"text":"這個我們認為是今年我們訓練的一個要項所以我們做這樣子的規劃跟委員做個說明總長因為到去年之前這個紅軍的科目或者像聯興、聯雲的這個演訓其實都是存在的那聯興跟聯雲就我們因為剛剛有提到他們在首次作戰他們有另外的一個安排要執行的項目如果他們在被取消以後他們會安排執行什麼"},{"start":390.741,"end":401.664,"text":"跟委員做個報告,我們在年度的這個聯興跟聯營並沒有取消,它還是存在的。所以它在其他的時間點會做演練。不過,總長,因為就軍事專家的解釋,陸軍特戰散兵部隊還有海軍陸戰隊在戰時它具有快速投射戰場的能力。"},{"start":413.968,"end":433.955,"text":"所以聯興跟聯雲的操演他們年度最重要、最標準、最完整的三軍聯合作戰演練這個其實都是在漢光演習可以一次到位可是我們這一次把它抽出來做防衛型的我們現在想要理解的是因為現在南海、太平島周圍緊張的情勢除了大陸解放軍以外還有其他國家比如說像越南他們也是虎視眈眈"},{"start":441.218,"end":447.901,"text":"所以如果說陸戰隊外島的未將恢復作戰能力不再需要藉由這樣大型的演練然後來驗收他們聯合作戰的能力嗎那如果這樣子沒有這樣做的話全部都是手勢未來如果發生作戰要收復外離島的時候我們有能力執行嗎"},{"start":461.087,"end":484.073,"text":"因為畢竟我們還有很多的外離島不是只有太平島也不是只有更遠的我們還有周邊的外離島那我們通常像這兩個聯興跟聯雲他主要就是我們歸附作戰的這樣子的一個能力所以他們要怎麼樣做戰力的一個驗證謝謝委員關鍵我們其實在7月初的時候我們的聯興演習"},{"start":490.575,"end":509.943,"text":"就會執行完畢所以他的剛才委員所關切的他的任務兩棲作戰的任務他的總能還有他的這些的一個整體的我們並沒有因為沒有納入那個漢光演習而有任何的調整那聯勇演習我們在漢光結束之後也會執行"},{"start":511.536,"end":536.779,"text":"所以說這個我們是在一個綜合考量下先把漢光聚焦在因為剛才委員提到一個非常重要的觀點他不僅是我們防衛作戰的這個重要的部隊其實他也還有兼顧其他的他的兩棲作戰的能力還有這個快速這些的空機降的這個能力我們這些的總能我們不會去做他的這個這個做任何的取消"},{"start":537.239,"end":541.848,"text":"但是希望在漢光演習的時候聚焦在防衛作戰的任務對"},{"start":543.898,"end":553.487,"text":"總長您有一直提到我們現在其實把重心都放在防衛作戰那所以其實像他們不同的一個作戰特性尤其是他們這兩個那他們未來會安排到什麼樣的地方比如說像陸軍特戰其實他們有很多他們都可以做的你是要把這個都做他們的這些相關的業務嗎因為時間的關係"},{"start":568.44,"end":569.241,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":585.419,"end":585.759,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等2"},{"start":606.699,"end":616.122,"text":"則是我們今天特別邀請梅總長可以來的一個很重要的因素。接下來請總長先回座。我借一點點時間來請教部長。部長,因為您上任以後有提到我們未來國防預算會增加,然後我們會有很多的"},{"start":629.725,"end":643.895,"text":"三、審查本院委員黃仁等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王�"},{"start":647.057,"end":670.453,"text":"自殺無人快艇重創俄軍黑海艦隊大型艦艇的戰機,所以中科院以代號快期專案科研用了兩億五千萬,大概兩億多的經費去研製導控距離60公里的攻擊型無人艇。時間的關係,今天我先請教一下,我們看到烏克蘭"},{"start":671.374,"end":677.759,"text":"在他的新型的2024黑海安全論壇上面公開的潛行者五新型的海上無人艇單價大概是兩百多萬就是六萬歐元"},{"start":687.546,"end":707.844,"text":"他具備150公斤的彈頭重量,航程高達600公里,最高速度可以達每小時75公里而且烏克蘭現役有實戰的自殺無人快艇,每艘也只要新台幣600萬可是我們中科院現在在科研的一艘高達五、六千萬"},{"start":709.165,"end":731.6,"text":"如果再把其他的導控還有他的站台全部放進來其實就不止了比他至少貴了十倍以上今天我們希望把國防預算用在島口上我們有需要可是我們需要用到這麼貴因為它是消耗品它是自殺式的供給所以去了就不會回來那你需要用到這麼貴的"},{"start":733.242,"end":740.879,"text":"經而去做這樣的科研嗎?他都已經非常成熟了。那這個部分部長是不是有什麼樣的簡單的一個看法?"},{"start":742.14,"end":747.302,"text":"我想有一些東西就是說在現貨市場是不是能夠買得到這是一個要考慮的事情部長無人機可以買到這個船艦這個小型的無人艇船體非常簡單這個我們國內很多的船廠都可以做所以我們為什麼要花這麼高的預算"},{"start":763.126,"end":769.257,"text":"委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇"},{"start":774.548,"end":781.91,"text":"議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等2議員馬文君等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員王鴻薇等24人、委員"},{"start":799.7,"end":808.523,"text":"就這個部分我先提出來我們希望國防部還有中科院可以提供詳細的資料如果不恰當希望你們可以做修正甚至怎麼樣去採購這樣成熟的這樣的一個武器裝備我相信其實並不困難我們無人機比較或者其他的都可以買到了這個不會有困難部長請你們下去做一個檢視跟調整好不好"},{"start":825.148,"end":837.017,"text":"好,我們會來進行研議,然後將這個委員的建議來納入我們思考的方案。好,謝謝,會得太離譜了,謝謝。好,謝謝馬文君委員。接下來由沈博洋委員發言。"}]}}}}