{"id":154265,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154265","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd12ac7f5ed45ed4c32a22d6087941f42bc3176ac657cb8ac9cf14af2903b7ecd7f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:01:05 - 11:10:43","影片長度":"00:09:38","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n四、審查委員李柏毅等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n五、審查委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查委員許智傑等25人擬具「學生輔導法第四條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n七、審查委員許智傑等26人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n八、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、審查委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、審查委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、審查委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、審查委員郭國文等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、審查委員郭國文等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、審查委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、審查委員王育敏等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「學生輔導法第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員馬文君等24人擬具「學生輔導法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員林月琴等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(6月26日僅進行詢答)\n【6月24日及26日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T11:01:05+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T11:10:43+08:00","duration":578,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":405,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時1分）謝謝主席，有請鄭部長。"],["主席：好，部長。"],["林委員宜瑾：部長好。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：現行學生輔導法第四條的立法理由說明，就是說地方主管機關基於業務需要，得將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組的方式來運作，或者是說，循地方自治的法規設立新機關，或派出單位。問題是，目前我們的學生輔導諮商中心都是採取任務編組，無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積，所以我覺得這次在本席的法案裡面、提案版本裡面，我倡議，應當要透過類似日出條款的模式，就是說，給予教育部有準備的空間，從2028開始逐年編列預算跟員額，與地方政府協力完成學生輔導諮商中心正式編組的建置，給予主任跟督導合理的行政職務加給，同時也給予專輔人員專業的證照加給。","我想提醒的是，其實這絕對不是所謂的灑幣法案，因為教育部理應比任何人更清楚，地方的輔導諮商中心辦理這些處遇性的輔導，所協助的是處境最困難的學生，可是又因為長期不足額的聘任，讓這些輔導人員具有非常高的離職率，這我想教育部非常地清楚。專輔人員的待遇絕對有重新審視跟改善的必要，表面上好像在替諮商心理師請命，而實際上我真正關心的是，這些學生的心理健康到底能不能被照顧到？所以請教育部說明，你們將提出的這個法案版本，對於專輔人員的待遇，或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革？可不可以說明一下，就是關於勞動條件跟提升品質的部分，想要讓這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心，確實，因為要明文規範學諮中心成為一個等於是法制的正式單位。"],["林委員宜瑾：正式編組。"],["鄭部長英耀：正式編制會關係到地方自治法上的權限，所以在這個部分我們才會用比較保留的方式，但是委員所關心的，怎麼樣讓學諮中心能夠專業化，發揮它的專業功能，這個主任能夠由專業人員來擔任，這是我們這次修法裡邊，也納入的一個主要的修正方向。至於勞動條件怎麼樣讓這些諮輔相關人員、專業人力，他們能夠有一個相對好的薪資報酬，不要跟委員剛才所關心的部分差了好多。當然，屬於社會的一些實際……他們專業的執業薪水報酬，當然我們很難去比照，但是至少在一些公家機關裡邊聘用的，我想我們讓他們能有齊一的薪水，這是我們努力的目標。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，我再跟部長討論一下本席提案的第十一條，這一條是涉及專任的專業輔導人員人力比，教育部今年1月起已經先以增調補助經費的方式，支持大專院校輔導人力的配比到1比900，可是高級中學以下呢？我想說，這次的修法到底能給出多少的人力配比？學生面對那麼多的困境跟多元複雜的問題，我想呼應學生的需求，絕對是全國的共識，所以想要請教部長，是否支持本席的提案，就是讓高級中等以下的學校，班級數在40班以上的，我們就可以設置專業的輔導人員一名，如果不行，到底有什麼樣的困難？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：應該這麼講，謝謝委員的關心。如果以委員的版本，我們還要再增加四百多位，增加將近三億六千多萬的經費，光這一個部分，還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過，我們確實有許多專業人力的培育，有人力上的不足，我們期待有更好的服務品質，但是你連專業人力的培訓都不夠，你不能也把路人甲、路人乙拉來……"],["林委員宜瑾：當然、當然。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這是違反專業上的承諾，這是我們在整個修法裡邊有更大的一些務實又兼顧理想性上的考量，大概是這樣。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了。因為第一線的專業人員，其實他們常常反映，他們接觸的個案因為相當地複雜，甚至有很多的危險性，而且他們還要處理大量的行政事務，所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇，我覺得已超過他們身心靈可以負擔的範圍，所以離職率高就是這樣。","我想，我們如果要來改善這個問題，剛剛柯召委跟范委員都有提到過，就是我們來看看平均離職率的數據，有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上，基隆市最高，達到33%，多數的縣市也都在10%以上，離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久。在這個之前的統計數據有顯示，60%以上的專輔人員年資在4年以下，所以這個人員待不久，流動率高又怎麼能給學生持續性的協助？所以這些問題，我們如何來解決？這個可能要教育部來深思。","我想以專輔人員的待遇，以諮商心理師都是碩士為基準來看就好，以現行輔諮中心的制度來聘用的話，目前都是約聘人員，薪資到頂頂多到5萬7，可是如果你用醫事人員的敘薪標準來看，薪資最高都可以接近7萬，如果是專輔教師，可以接近9萬。另外，現場的專輔人員也有反映說，其實如果轉任到督導，後來又不想當督導，又轉回專輔人員，結果這個督導年資不能被採計，等於是他職等的俸階跟俸點都降低了，不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況？教育部到底有沒有掌握到，哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況？本席認為這樣真的很不合理。就是說，當督導的年資沒有被採計，他回任專輔人員時，就會被降低薪資，那誰還想當督導？針對專輔人員薪資的待遇，跟擔任督導的年資沒有被採計的問題，教育部要怎麼改善？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想委員所關心這個勞動人力的許多條件，包括剛才督導的年資，我相信能夠當督導，是因為他在心理專業的層次累積的經驗更豐富，才足以成為一個督導。"],["林委員宜瑾：是。"],["鄭部長英耀：他督導的年資不納入，我覺得這是我們要來改正的。"],["林委員宜瑾：是要來檢討地方。"],["鄭部長英耀：這個我想我們會來檢討。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。"],["鄭部長英耀：至於薪資的部分，我們事實上也有納入考慮，再從薪點、從交通費怎麼樣來縮短，這一個等於是讓他們能夠更安心，但是我也利用這個機會跟委員補充說明，事實上我們看到，不管是護理專業人員，或者是心理諮商，雖然他們本身都是在幫人家處理面對壓力，但他們自己本身怎麼專業成長、增能、能夠隨時理解到自己的情緒狀態，而能夠提升專業輔導的能力，我想這都是我們會積極透過增能，包括在職研習，來跟這些專業人員分享的。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，因為時間的關係，還有聘任不足額的問題，這個幾乎每個縣市都聘不到足額，聘任率都不到5成，而且還有很多縣市是沒有督導的，所以這個部分也請教育部要正視這個問題，看如何透過修法的方式來解決。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，部長，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在先休息5分鐘，謝謝！","休息（11時10分）","繼續開會（11時15分）"],["主席：報告委員會，我們現在繼續開會，請郭昱晴委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-17","speakers":["柯志恩","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅智強","陳菁徽","葛如鈞","范雲","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳亭妃","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩","林憶君","王育敏","吳春城","林月琴"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人\n擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條\n文修正草案」案；四、審查委員李柏毅等 18 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；\n五、審查委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員許智傑等25\n人擬具「學生輔導法第四條及第七條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員許智傑等26人擬具「學生\n輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正\n草案」案；九、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十、審查\n委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員洪孟楷等22人擬具\n「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學生輔導法部分\n條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員郭昱晴等 19 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」\n案；十四、審查委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十五、審查委員郭\n國文等 19 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員郭國文等 19 人擬具\n「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條\n文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；\n十九、審查委員王育敏等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員萬\n美玲等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具\n「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「學生輔導法第五條\n及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十三、審查委員馬文君等24人擬具「學生輔導法第五條條文修正\n草案」案；二十四、審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十\n五、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十六、審查委員林\n月琴等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案(僅進行詢答)","agenda_id":"1136601_00012"}},"transcript":{"id":"154265","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154265","tool":"pyannote","id":"154265-pyannote"},"job_id":"lAzImRatXOSa5IaR","queued_at":"2024-06-26 11:43:42","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-26 11:43:46","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154265","target":null},{"time":"2024-06-26 11:43:46","msg":"downloading 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\"«\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 551.505, \"end\": 551.565, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 551.565, \"end\": 551.665, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"輔\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 551.665, \"end\": 551.685, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 551.685, \"end\": 551.745, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 551.745, \"end\": 551.845, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 551.845, \"end\": 551.965, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 551.965, \"end\": 552.205, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 552.205, \"end\": 552.685, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 552.685, \"end\": 552.945, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 552.945, \"end\": 552.965, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 552.965, \"end\": 553.025, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 553.025, \"end\": 553.045, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 553.045, \"end\": 553.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"》\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 553.065, \"end\": 553.085, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:01,190\n政務司司長謝主席政務司長\n\n2\n00:00:16,778 --> 00:00:19,540\n則將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組方式來運作,或者是說尋地方自治的法規設立新機關或派出單位。問題是目前我們的學生輔導\n\n3\n00:00:38,311 --> 00:01:00,392\n哲商中心都是採取任務編組,那無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積。所以我覺得這一次在本席的這個法案裡面提案版本裡面我倡議應當要透過類似日出條款的模式就是說給予教育部有準備的空間從2028開始\n\n4\n00:01:03,615 --> 00:01:05,117\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員張雅琳等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n5\n00:01:25,213 --> 00:01:27,174\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n6\n00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,160\n﹝請教育部說明﹞\n\n7\n00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:34,134\n對於專輔人員的待遇或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革?可不可以說明一下?就是說關於勞動的條件跟提升品質的部分想要為這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼?\n\n8\n00:02:35,540 --> 00:02:35,580\n財政部長\n\n9\n00:02:55,196 --> 00:02:55,416\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n10\n00:03:17,819 --> 00:03:19,921\nbicyclope等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案件》案\n\n11\n00:03:38,559 --> 00:03:38,599\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n12\n00:03:57,558 --> 00:03:59,821\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n\n13\n00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,381\nadequatetotheproposalofthenewlaw.\n\n14\n00:04:15,381 --> 00:04:19,785\nIwanttoasktheministerifhecansupporttheproposalofthenewlaw.\n\n15\n00:04:53,903 --> 00:05:15,279\n應該這麼講說謝謝委員的關心如果以委員的版本我們還要再增加有400多位或增加將近3億6千多萬的經費光這一個部分所以大概我們整體還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們確實有許多專業人力的培育\n\n16\n00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,980\n一、張雅琳等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n17\n00:05:46,119 --> 00:06:09,625\n先來談談就是說現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了因為第一屆的專業人員其實他們常反映就是說他們接觸的個案因為相當的複雜那甚至有很多的危險性而且他們還要處理很多的大量的行政事務所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇我覺得超過他們身心裡所可以負擔的範圍所以離職率高就是這樣\n\n18\n00:06:13,366 --> 00:06:32,936\n所以我想我們如果要來改善這個問題剛剛柯昭偉跟范委員都有提到過就是說我們來看看平均離職率的數據有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上基隆市是最高達到33%那多數的縣市也都在10%以上離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久\n\n19\n00:06:35,177 --> 00:06:37,100\n兩、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n20\n00:06:51,380 --> 00:06:53,162\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n21\n00:07:11,024 --> 00:07:38,794\n等多到57000可是若你有一室人員的續薪標準來看薪資最高都可以到接近7萬那如果專輔教師可以接近到9萬那另外現場的專輔人員也有反應說其實若轉任到督導那後來又不想當督導又轉為專輔人員結果他這個督導年資不能被採記等於他的值等的縫階跟縫點都降低了不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況\n\n22\n00:07:41,275 --> 00:07:48,397\n到底有沒有掌握說哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況那柏毅認為這樣真的很不合理就是說當督導的年資沒有被採計他回任專輔人員時就被降低薪資那誰還想要當督導那針對專輔人員薪資的待遇跟擔任督導這個年資沒有被採計的問題教育部要怎麼改善部長\n\n23\n00:08:02,622 --> 00:08:06,785\n我相信因為能夠當督導是因為他在心理專業的一個層次累積的經驗更豐富才足以成為一個督導那他督導的年資不納入我覺得這是我們\n\n24\n00:08:20,376 --> 00:08:20,836\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n25\n00:08:41,849 --> 00:08:44,671\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n26\n00:09:09,884 --> 00:09:13,085\n：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員范雲等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案案》案。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t1190\t政務司司長謝主席政務司長\n16778\t19540\t則將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組方式來運作,或者是說尋地方自治的法規設立新機關或派出單位。問題是目前我們的學生輔導\n38311\t60392\t哲商中心都是採取任務編組,那無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積。所以我覺得這一次在本席的這個法案裡面提案版本裡面我倡議應當要透過類似日出條款的模式就是說給予教育部有準備的空間從2028開始\n63615\t65117\t議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員張雅琳等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n85213\t87174\t議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n115000\t115160\t﹝請教育部說明﹞\n135960\t154134\t對於專輔人員的待遇或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革?可不可以說明一下?就是說關於勞動的條件跟提升品質的部分想要為這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼?\n155540\t155580\t財政部長\n175196\t175416\t﹝請勿模仿﹞\n197819\t199921\tbicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案件》案\n218559\t218599\t﹝請勿模仿﹞\n237558\t239821\t一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n253720\t255381\tadequate to the proposal of the new law.\n255381\t259785\tI want to ask the minister if he can support the proposal of the new law.\n293903\t315279\t應該這麼講說謝謝委員的關心如果以委員的版本我們還要再增加有400多位或增加將近3億6千多萬的經費光這一個部分所以大概我們整體還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們確實有許多專業人力的培育\n316279\t317980\t一、張雅琳等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n346119\t369625\t先來談談就是說現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了因為第一屆的專業人員其實他們常反映就是說他們接觸的個案因為相當的複雜那甚至有很多的危險性而且他們還要處理很多的大量的行政事務所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇我覺得超過他們身心裡所可以負擔的範圍所以離職率高就是這樣\n373366\t392936\t所以我想我們如果要來改善這個問題剛剛柯昭偉跟范委員都有提到過就是說我們來看看平均離職率的數據有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上基隆市是最高達到33%那多數的縣市也都在10%以上離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久\n395177\t397100\t兩、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n411380\t413162\t議員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n431024\t458794\t等多到57000可是若你有一室人員的續薪標準來看薪資最高都可以到接近7萬那如果專輔教師可以接近到9萬那另外現場的專輔人員也有反應說其實若轉任到督導那後來又不想當督導又轉為專輔人員結果他這個督導年資不能被採記等於他的值等的縫階跟縫點都降低了不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況\n461275\t468397\t到底有沒有掌握說哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況那柏毅認為這樣真的很不合理就是說當督導的年資沒有被採計他回任專輔人員時就被降低薪資那誰還想要當督導那針對專輔人員薪資的待遇跟擔任督導這個年資沒有被採計的問題教育部要怎麼改善 部長\n482622\t486785\t我相信因為能夠當督導是因為他在心理專業的一個層次累積的經驗更豐富才足以成為一個督導那他督導的年資不納入我覺得這是我們\n500376\t500836\t三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n521849\t524671\t議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n549884\t553085\t：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員范雲等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案案 》案。\n","txt":"政務司司長謝主席政務司長\n則將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組方式來運作,或者是說尋地方自治的法規設立新機關或派出單位。問題是目前我們的學生輔導\n哲商中心都是採取任務編組,那無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積。所以我覺得這一次在本席的這個法案裡面提案版本裡面我倡議應當要透過類似日出條款的模式就是說給予教育部有準備的空間從2028開始\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員張雅琳等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n﹝請教育部說明﹞\n對於專輔人員的待遇或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革?可不可以說明一下?就是說關於勞動的條件跟提升品質的部分想要為這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼?\n財政部長\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\nbicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案件》案\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\nadequate to the proposal of the new law.\nI want to ask the minister if he can support the proposal of the new law.\n應該這麼講說謝謝委員的關心如果以委員的版本我們還要再增加有400多位或增加將近3億6千多萬的經費光這一個部分所以大概我們整體還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們確實有許多專業人力的培育\n一、張雅琳等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n先來談談就是說現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了因為第一屆的專業人員其實他們常反映就是說他們接觸的個案因為相當的複雜那甚至有很多的危險性而且他們還要處理很多的大量的行政事務所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇我覺得超過他們身心裡所可以負擔的範圍所以離職率高就是這樣\n所以我想我們如果要來改善這個問題剛剛柯昭偉跟范委員都有提到過就是說我們來看看平均離職率的數據有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上基隆市是最高達到33%那多數的縣市也都在10%以上離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久\n兩、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n等多到57000可是若你有一室人員的續薪標準來看薪資最高都可以到接近7萬那如果專輔教師可以接近到9萬那另外現場的專輔人員也有反應說其實若轉任到督導那後來又不想當督導又轉為專輔人員結果他這個督導年資不能被採記等於他的值等的縫階跟縫點都降低了不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況\n到底有沒有掌握說哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況那柏毅認為這樣真的很不合理就是說當督導的年資沒有被採計他回任專輔人員時就被降低薪資那誰還想要當督導那針對專輔人員薪資的待遇跟擔任督導這個年資沒有被採計的問題教育部要怎麼改善 部長\n我相信因為能夠當督導是因為他在心理專業的一個層次累積的經驗更豐富才足以成為一個督導那他督導的年資不納入我覺得這是我們\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員范雲等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案案 》案。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:01.190\n政務司司長謝主席政務司長\n\n00:16.778 --> 00:19.540\n則將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組方式來運作,或者是說尋地方自治的法規設立新機關或派出單位。問題是目前我們的學生輔導\n\n00:38.311 --> 01:00.392\n哲商中心都是採取任務編組,那無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積。所以我覺得這一次在本席的這個法案裡面提案版本裡面我倡議應當要透過類似日出條款的模式就是說給予教育部有準備的空間從2028開始\n\n01:03.615 --> 01:05.117\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員張雅琳等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n01:25.213 --> 01:27.174\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n01:55.000 --> 01:55.160\n﹝請教育部說明﹞\n\n02:15.960 --> 02:34.134\n對於專輔人員的待遇或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革?可不可以說明一下?就是說關於勞動的條件跟提升品質的部分想要為這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼?\n\n02:35.540 --> 02:35.580\n財政部長\n\n02:55.196 --> 02:55.416\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n03:17.819 --> 03:19.921\nbicyclope等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案件》案\n\n03:38.559 --> 03:38.599\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n03:57.558 --> 03:59.821\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n\n04:13.720 --> 04:15.381\nadequatetotheproposalofthenewlaw.\n\n04:15.381 --> 04:19.785\nIwanttoasktheministerifhecansupporttheproposalofthenewlaw.\n\n04:53.903 --> 05:15.279\n應該這麼講說謝謝委員的關心如果以委員的版本我們還要再增加有400多位或增加將近3億6千多萬的經費光這一個部分所以大概我們整體還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們確實有許多專業人力的培育\n\n05:16.279 --> 05:17.980\n一、張雅琳等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n05:46.119 --> 06:09.625\n先來談談就是說現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了因為第一屆的專業人員其實他們常反映就是說他們接觸的個案因為相當的複雜那甚至有很多的危險性而且他們還要處理很多的大量的行政事務所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇我覺得超過他們身心裡所可以負擔的範圍所以離職率高就是這樣\n\n06:13.366 --> 06:32.936\n所以我想我們如果要來改善這個問題剛剛柯昭偉跟范委員都有提到過就是說我們來看看平均離職率的數據有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上基隆市是最高達到33%那多數的縣市也都在10%以上離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久\n\n06:35.177 --> 06:37.100\n兩、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n06:51.380 --> 06:53.162\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬\n\n07:11.024 --> 07:38.794\n等多到57000可是若你有一室人員的續薪標準來看薪資最高都可以到接近7萬那如果專輔教師可以接近到9萬那另外現場的專輔人員也有反應說其實若轉任到督導那後來又不想當督導又轉為專輔人員結果他這個督導年資不能被採記等於他的值等的縫階跟縫點都降低了不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況\n\n07:41.275 --> 07:48.397\n到底有沒有掌握說哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況那柏毅認為這樣真的很不合理就是說當督導的年資沒有被採計他回任專輔人員時就被降低薪資那誰還想要當督導那針對專輔人員薪資的待遇跟擔任督導這個年資沒有被採計的問題教育部要怎麼改善部長\n\n08:02.622 --> 08:06.785\n我相信因為能夠當督導是因為他在心理專業的一個層次累積的經驗更豐富才足以成為一個督導那他督導的年資不納入我覺得這是我們\n\n08:20.376 --> 08:20.836\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n08:41.849 --> 08:44.671\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n09:09.884 --> 09:13.085\n：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員范雲等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案案》案。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":1.19,"text":"政務司司長謝主席政務司長"},{"start":16.778,"end":19.54,"text":"則將學生輔導諮商中心以任務編組方式來運作,或者是說尋地方自治的法規設立新機關或派出單位。問題是目前我們的學生輔導"},{"start":38.311,"end":60.392,"text":"哲商中心都是採取任務編組,那無論效能跟經驗都欠缺穩定性而無法獲得累積。所以我覺得這一次在本席的這個法案裡面提案版本裡面我倡議應當要透過類似日出條款的模式就是說給予教育部有準備的空間從2028開始"},{"start":63.615,"end":65.117,"text":"議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員張雅琳等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":85.213,"end":87.174,"text":"議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":115,"end":115.16,"text":" ﹝請教育部說明﹞"},{"start":135.96,"end":154.134,"text":"對於專輔人員的待遇或者各縣市的學生輔導諮商中心又有什麼樣的實質改革?可不可以說明一下?就是說關於勞動的條件跟提升品質的部分想要為這些專業者願意留下來的作為有什麼?"},{"start":155.54,"end":155.58,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":175.196,"end":175.416,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":197.819,"end":199.921,"text":" bicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案件》案"},{"start":218.559,"end":218.599,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":237.558,"end":239.821,"text":"一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬"},{"start":253.72,"end":255.381,"text":"adequate to the proposal of the new law."},{"start":255.381,"end":259.785,"text":"I want to ask the minister if he can support the proposal of the new law."},{"start":293.903,"end":315.279,"text":"應該這麼講說謝謝委員的關心如果以委員的版本我們還要再增加有400多位或增加將近3億6千多萬的經費光這一個部分所以大概我們整體還有一個剛才也跟其他委員報告過我們確實有許多專業人力的培育"},{"start":316.279,"end":317.98,"text":"一、張雅琳等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬"},{"start":346.119,"end":369.625,"text":"先來談談就是說現在我們來細究一些待遇制度的問題好了因為第一屆的專業人員其實他們常反映就是說他們接觸的個案因為相當的複雜那甚至有很多的危險性而且他們還要處理很多的大量的行政事務所以他們根本沒有足夠的休息跟合理的待遇我覺得超過他們身心裡所可以負擔的範圍所以離職率高就是這樣"},{"start":373.366,"end":392.936,"text":"所以我想我們如果要來改善這個問題剛剛柯昭偉跟范委員都有提到過就是說我們來看看平均離職率的數據有五個縣市的離職率是在20%以上基隆市是最高達到33%那多數的縣市也都在10%以上離職率高代表專輔人員在這個領域待不久"},{"start":395.177,"end":397.1,"text":"兩、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬"},{"start":411.38,"end":413.162,"text":"議員林宜瑾等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬具李柏毅等19人擬"},{"start":431.024,"end":458.794,"text":"等多到57000可是若你有一室人員的續薪標準來看薪資最高都可以到接近7萬那如果專輔教師可以接近到9萬那另外現場的專輔人員也有反應說其實若轉任到督導那後來又不想當督導又轉為專輔人員結果他這個督導年資不能被採記等於他的值等的縫階跟縫點都降低了不曉得教育部有沒有注意到這種狀況"},{"start":461.275,"end":468.397,"text":"到底有沒有掌握說哪些縣市有遇到這樣的狀況那柏毅認為這樣真的很不合理就是說當督導的年資沒有被採計他回任專輔人員時就被降低薪資那誰還想要當督導那針對專輔人員薪資的待遇跟擔任督導這個年資沒有被採計的問題教育部要怎麼改善 部長"},{"start":482.622,"end":486.785,"text":"我相信因為能夠當督導是因為他在心理專業的一個層次累積的經驗更豐富才足以成為一個督導那他督導的年資不納入我覺得這是我們"},{"start":500.376,"end":500.836,"text":"三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":521.849,"end":524.671,"text":"議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":549.884,"end":553.085,"text":"：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員范雲等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案案案案 》案。"}]}}}}