{"id":154268,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154268","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd13b017f473a326c8eb086792d041729573176ac657cb8ac9c5a269d54d767ffee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:57:57 - 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00:00:46,443\n人力資源我們細分其實可以分成白領的勞工技術工藍領的技術工還有一般的我們講過去講3K啦就是這個移工類的等等那這一次我們勞動部去跟印度簽這個MOU的原因是什麼是你們自己想到的還是台灣有產業界在遊說這個事情還是有什麼樣的需求\n\n3\n00:00:48,181 --> 00:00:55,594\n這個因為當然就是要增加來源國的考量啦過去我們就是一直依賴那四國那個印度那四國你覺得不能再依賴\n\n4\n00:00:58,001 --> 00:01:23,824\n因為他們全球也在搶他們也有很多我們看到的是越南本身也慢慢有缺工的情形泰國也有類似的情形所以原來那四國的經濟有起來有的是他們的移工去海外學的技術掌握了通路回去自己開公司像我們南部在做那個皮球的做那個足球的公司幾乎都被越南的取代掉了原因在這裡\n\n5\n00:01:24,645 --> 00:01:24,925\n王定宇\n\n6\n00:01:45,749 --> 00:02:08,935\n感謝每一位移工為台灣的付出不管他在家裡照顧長輩或者在烈日下做營建工程其實他們都在這片土地上付出心力不能去歧視他但是我們還是要提醒勞動部引進移工通常會面對第一個問題是會不會影響到台灣本土的勞工我們自己的勞工會不會因為印度的MOU受到影響你們有沒有什麼預防的設計\n\n7\n00:02:10,017 --> 00:02:30,927\n委員其實台印的這個以移工引進他絕對是不會去影響到國內的就業機會因為其實這都是是國內的產業不足的部分才去補充的我們一定是優先以國內﹖我們以往是說國內的企業徵財徵財徵財三次徵不到財他才能開缺所以方法是跟過去的移工方式一樣\n\n8\n00:02:31,929 --> 00:03:00,795\n當然是要一樣啊。有沒有新的設計?新的設計是所謂的職聘啦。那只是說在流程上面能夠更減少這個成本、更減少剝削、更減少這個只是這方面的服務的精進而已啦。職聘的話意思說我們過去在臺灣針對原來四國的移工都要經過重建嘛。那現在跟印度簽的MOU是除了經過重建以外\n\n9\n00:03:01,475 --> 00:03:27,826\n對,再增加一個職聘的管道。對。那這個好處在哪裡?這個好處當然就是減少仲介中間的操縱。對,是是。可是這個要討慮對方的問題。因為印度本身沒有什麼職聘的制度。那他也是透過仲介的。所以當我方這邊要用職聘的時候,可能我這邊成本會比較高。對,我要到對方去設點。\n\n10\n00:03:32,829 --> 00:03:55,443\n我們要嘗試把它...因為印度社會的文化結構跟我們不太一樣那他們那邊如果都是仲介公司那台灣某個企業他要職聘通常會職聘的人是因為他在印度有分公司他在印度有設企業點他要把那邊的人直接聘過來台灣他用職聘的他就知道要聘誰這種會用到\n\n11\n00:03:57,950 --> 00:04:14,124\n那這樣子的情形下還是我要提醒勞動部還是要避免去排擠到臺灣本身的需求你懂意思嗎當然因為他在那邊因為在南印度的幾個省還有東印度其實臺灣有很多公司在那邊設廠\n\n12\n00:04:15,405 --> 00:04:31,376\n所以執聘這一類是避免剝削所以印度移工他省得被人家剝好幾層皮對台灣的雇主我可以找到我想要的而不是來用美化我又換嘛那最常發現就是因為印度本身沒有什麼中介沒有什麼執聘制度\n\n13\n00:04:32,156 --> 00:04:53,552\n所以常會發現是比如說台灣富士康在那邊有設一個工業區他就把那邊的想要聘過來他可以用職聘的或者某某企業在印度有設廠區他要把那邊的好的技術工引進來台灣可能會發生在這裡所以我這邊本期要提醒勞動部就這個樣態一定要避免國內的職缺\n\n14\n00:04:55,413 --> 00:05:15,546\n因為這個樣態被排擠。這個有做提醒。對,這裡是要小心的。因為他這個職聘是企業內職聘。是,沒錯。他是跨國企業的企業內職聘。而跨國企業內的職聘就很有可能那個職缺的控管會有一些沒槓。當然。勞動部這個要注意。當然。所以委員我要再次跟你強調我們是雙軌。\n\n15\n00:05:17,031 --> 00:05:37,166\n就是仲介跟職聘雙軌對啊但是我如果是一個跨國企業我企業內體系我跨國都有點的時候我當然選擇職聘啊因為我當地公司可以recruitrecruit了之後再把它transfer到台灣這就職聘了但我不排斥這個方法因為這個企業可以用到合用的\n\n16\n00:05:59,474 --> 00:06:15,357\n那印度方是願意?是!這個比較罕見的。這個就是非常罕見的而且我們非常感謝印方的積極跟對我們的友好。因為印度坦白講以往印度大概是在中印邊界開始丟石頭以後開始丟石頭丟石頭然後丟完石頭呢他們的國安部門\n\n17\n00:06:16,238 --> 00:06:42,167\n我們駐印的使館也瞭解說他們的國安部門對於中國那邊的不管零部件的進口或者人的甚至於採購是有疑慮的現在等於擴大到他們的一般經貿部門過去比較親中的也開始設限了那回過頭來變台灣跟他就有一個合作的基礎所以這既是經濟又是外交所以我們這一次我方可以決定\n\n18\n00:06:43,047 --> 00:07:11,530\n要求什麼樣的人才嗎?對,職類我們決定,名額也是我們決定。還有職聘,對方其實原來不同意的,被我們加進去的。對,還有包括醫療他們也願意負擔。印度會同意職聘其實蠻意外的,因為職聘他們當地跟他們的政治階層結合在一起的仲介業反彈很大,因為這個他們就賺不到錢了。\n\n19\n00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:29,592\n那其實對臺灣的生意人臺灣的企業家跟印度勞工其實是有幫助的但我還是要提醒還是要避免排擠嘛那我最後要請教一個問題治安的部分其實我看到國人在擔憂的是治安的部分那我也藉由我們在立法院的委員會提醒國人\n\n20\n00:07:31,332 --> 00:07:52,326\n對任何族裔的人我們都應該平等看待不能有英文叫Stereotype不能有那種僵化的或者固定的一個歧視跟誤解對國內的族群如此對國外也是印度是全球唯二超過10億以上的國家當然他們有他們的種姓制度那個是他們國家的內政所以對於\n\n21\n00:07:57,449 --> 00:08:16,687\n移工的進入到臺灣有關治安的部分勞動部做什麼努力我問最後的問題就好了是我們現在已經跟移民署有對接在合作因為這個治安的部分我們要跟移民署一起控管這樣子所以我們可以要求移工比如說無犯罪紀錄啊是對有或者相關的保證等等對當然一定就是說\n\n22\n00:08:18,035 --> 00:08:47,538\n不能因為別的國家有發生刑事案件我們就以為那個國家的人都是這樣的人就好像如果外國看台灣發生什麼刑事案件就認為台灣都這樣的人我覺得這個不好但是畢竟這是從另外一個國家來台灣工作有適應的問題有文化的差異文化的差異跟適應的問題可能要透過輔導跟各方面要來做處理這是勞動部的責任就好像現有的四國移工在台灣其實也造成了很大的一個就業市場有人會去安排住啊有人當翻譯嘛\n\n23\n00:08:47,978 --> 00:08:48,379\n好,謝謝王定宇\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1516\t22669\t請勞動部長好請部長部長第一次在這邊看到你有些問題要請教你我也代表國人要提出一些關心我們希望提供正確的訊息不便回答的或者資訊不完整的我們都可以讓你盡量補充你知道現在全世界都在搶人力資源\n23750\t46443\t人力資源我們細分其實可以分成白領的勞工技術工藍領的技術工還有一般的我們講過去講3K啦就是這個移工類的等等那這一次我們勞動部去跟印度簽這個MOU的原因是什麼是你們自己想到的還是台灣有產業界在遊說這個事情還是有什麼樣的需求\n48181\t55594\t這個因為當然就是要增加來源國的考量啦過去我們就是一直依賴那四國那個印度那四國你覺得不能再依賴\n58001\t83824\t因為他們全球也在搶他們也有很多我們看到的是越南本身也慢慢有缺工的情形泰國也有類似的情形所以原來那四國的經濟有起來有的是他們的移工去海外學的技術掌握了通路回去自己開公司像我們南部在做那個皮球的做那個足球的公司幾乎都被越南的取代掉了原因在這裡\n84645\t84925\t王定宇\n105749\t128935\t感謝每一位移工為台灣的付出不管他在家裡照顧長輩或者在烈日下做營建工程其實他們都在這片土地上付出心力不能去歧視他但是我們還是要提醒勞動部引進移工通常會面對第一個問題是會不會影響到台灣本土的勞工我們自己的勞工會不會因為印度的MOU受到影響你們有沒有什麼預防的設計\n130017\t150927\t委員其實台印的這個以移工引進他絕對是不會去影響到國內的就業機會因為其實這都是是國內的產業不足的部分才去補充的我們一定是優先以國內﹖我們以往是說國內的企業徵財徵財徵財三次徵不到財他才能開缺所以方法是跟過去的移工方式一樣\n151929\t180795\t當然是要一樣啊。有沒有新的設計?新的設計是所謂的職聘啦。那只是說在流程上面能夠更減少這個成本、更減少剝削、更減少這個只是這方面的服務的精進而已啦。職聘的話意思說我們過去在臺灣針對原來四國的移工都要經過重建嘛。那現在跟印度簽的MOU是除了經過重建以外\n181475\t207826\t對,再增加一個職聘的管道。對。那這個好處在哪裡?這個好處當然就是減少仲介中間的操縱。對,是是。可是這個要討慮對方的問題。因為印度本身沒有什麼職聘的制度。那他也是透過仲介的。所以當我方這邊要用職聘的時候,可能我這邊成本會比較高。對,我要到對方去設點。\n212829\t235443\t我們要嘗試把它...因為印度社會的文化結構跟我們不太一樣那他們那邊如果都是仲介公司那台灣某個企業他要職聘通常會職聘的人是因為他在印度有分公司他在印度有設企業點他要把那邊的人直接聘過來台灣他用職聘的他就知道要聘誰這種會用到\n237950\t254124\t那這樣子的情形下還是我要提醒勞動部還是要避免去排擠到臺灣本身的需求你懂意思嗎當然因為他在那邊因為在南印度的幾個省還有東印度其實臺灣有很多公司在那邊設廠\n255405\t271376\t所以執聘這一類是避免剝削所以印度移工他省得被人家剝好幾層皮對台灣的雇主我可以找到我想要的而不是來用美化我又換嘛那最常發現就是因為印度本身沒有什麼中介沒有什麼執聘制度\n272156\t293552\t所以常會發現是比如說台灣富士康在那邊有設一個工業區他就把那邊的想要聘過來他可以用職聘的或者某某企業在印度有設廠區他要把那邊的好的技術工引進來台灣可能會發生在這裡所以我這邊本期要提醒勞動部就這個樣態一定要避免國內的職缺\n295413\t315546\t因為這個樣態被排擠。這個有做提醒。對,這裡是要小心的。因為他這個職聘是企業內職聘。是,沒錯。他是跨國企業的企業內職聘。而跨國企業內的職聘就很有可能那個職缺的控管會有一些沒槓。當然。勞動部這個要注意。當然。所以委員我要再次跟你強調我們是雙軌。\n317031\t337166\t就是仲介跟職聘雙軌對啊但是我如果是一個跨國企業我企業內體系我跨國都有點的時候我當然選擇職聘啊因為我當地公司可以recruitrecruit了之後再把它transfer到台灣這就職聘了但我不排斥這個方法因為這個企業可以用到合用的\n338063\t359394\t﹏﹏\n359474\t375357\t那印度方是願意?是!這個比較罕見的。這個就是非常罕見的而且我們非常感謝印方的積極跟對我們的友好。因為印度坦白講以往印度大概是在中印邊界開始丟石頭以後開始丟石頭丟石頭然後丟完石頭呢他們的國安部門\n376238\t402167\t我們駐印的使館也瞭解說他們的國安部門對於中國那邊的不管零部件的進口或者人的甚至於採購是有疑慮的現在等於擴大到他們的一般經貿部門過去比較親中的也開始設限了那回過頭來變台灣跟他就有一個合作的基礎所以這既是經濟又是外交所以我們這一次我方可以決定\n403047\t431530\t要求什麼樣的人才嗎?對,職類我們決定,名額也是我們決定。還有職聘,對方其實原來不同意的,被我們加進去的。對,還有包括醫療他們也願意負擔。印度會同意職聘其實蠻意外的,因為職聘他們當地跟他們的政治階層結合在一起的仲介業反彈很大,因為這個他們就賺不到錢了。\n432170\t449592\t那其實對臺灣的生意人臺灣的企業家跟印度勞工其實是有幫助的但我還是要提醒還是要避免排擠嘛那我最後要請教一個問題治安的部分其實我看到國人在擔憂的是治安的部分那我也藉由我們在立法院的委員會提醒國人\n451332\t472326\t對任何族裔的人我們都應該平等看待不能有英文叫Stereotype不能有那種僵化的或者固定的一個歧視跟誤解對國內的族群如此對國外也是印度是全球唯二超過10億以上的國家當然他們有他們的種姓制度那個是他們國家的內政所以對於\n477449\t496687\t移工的進入到臺灣有關治安的部分勞動部做什麼努力我問最後的問題就好了是我們現在已經跟移民署有對接在合作因為這個治安的部分我們要跟移民署一起控管這樣子所以我們可以要求移工比如說無犯罪紀錄啊是對有或者相關的保證等等對當然一定就是說\n498035\t527538\t不能因為別的國家有發生刑事案件我們就以為那個國家的人都是這樣的人就好像如果外國看台灣發生什麼刑事案件就認為台灣都這樣的人我覺得這個不好但是畢竟這是從另外一個國家來台灣工作有適應的問題有文化的差異文化的差異跟適應的問題可能要透過輔導跟各方面要來做處理這是勞動部的責任就好像現有的四國移工在台灣其實也造成了很大的一個就業市場有人會去安排住啊有人當翻譯嘛\n527978\t528379\t好,謝謝王定宇\n","txt":"請勞動部長好請部長部長第一次在這邊看到你有些問題要請教你我也代表國人要提出一些關心我們希望提供正確的訊息不便回答的或者資訊不完整的我們都可以讓你盡量補充你知道現在全世界都在搶人力資源\n人力資源我們細分其實可以分成白領的勞工技術工藍領的技術工還有一般的我們講過去講3K啦就是這個移工類的等等那這一次我們勞動部去跟印度簽這個MOU的原因是什麼是你們自己想到的還是台灣有產業界在遊說這個事情還是有什麼樣的需求\n這個因為當然就是要增加來源國的考量啦過去我們就是一直依賴那四國那個印度那四國你覺得不能再依賴\n因為他們全球也在搶他們也有很多我們看到的是越南本身也慢慢有缺工的情形泰國也有類似的情形所以原來那四國的經濟有起來有的是他們的移工去海外學的技術掌握了通路回去自己開公司像我們南部在做那個皮球的做那個足球的公司幾乎都被越南的取代掉了原因在這裡\n王定宇\n感謝每一位移工為台灣的付出不管他在家裡照顧長輩或者在烈日下做營建工程其實他們都在這片土地上付出心力不能去歧視他但是我們還是要提醒勞動部引進移工通常會面對第一個問題是會不會影響到台灣本土的勞工我們自己的勞工會不會因為印度的MOU受到影響你們有沒有什麼預防的設計\n委員其實台印的這個以移工引進他絕對是不會去影響到國內的就業機會因為其實這都是是國內的產業不足的部分才去補充的我們一定是優先以國內﹖我們以往是說國內的企業徵財徵財徵財三次徵不到財他才能開缺所以方法是跟過去的移工方式一樣\n當然是要一樣啊。有沒有新的設計?新的設計是所謂的職聘啦。那只是說在流程上面能夠更減少這個成本、更減少剝削、更減少這個只是這方面的服務的精進而已啦。職聘的話意思說我們過去在臺灣針對原來四國的移工都要經過重建嘛。那現在跟印度簽的MOU是除了經過重建以外\n對,再增加一個職聘的管道。對。那這個好處在哪裡?這個好處當然就是減少仲介中間的操縱。對,是是。可是這個要討慮對方的問題。因為印度本身沒有什麼職聘的制度。那他也是透過仲介的。所以當我方這邊要用職聘的時候,可能我這邊成本會比較高。對,我要到對方去設點。\n我們要嘗試把它...因為印度社會的文化結構跟我們不太一樣那他們那邊如果都是仲介公司那台灣某個企業他要職聘通常會職聘的人是因為他在印度有分公司他在印度有設企業點他要把那邊的人直接聘過來台灣他用職聘的他就知道要聘誰這種會用到\n那這樣子的情形下還是我要提醒勞動部還是要避免去排擠到臺灣本身的需求你懂意思嗎當然因為他在那邊因為在南印度的幾個省還有東印度其實臺灣有很多公司在那邊設廠\n所以執聘這一類是避免剝削所以印度移工他省得被人家剝好幾層皮對台灣的雇主我可以找到我想要的而不是來用美化我又換嘛那最常發現就是因為印度本身沒有什麼中介沒有什麼執聘制度\n所以常會發現是比如說台灣富士康在那邊有設一個工業區他就把那邊的想要聘過來他可以用職聘的或者某某企業在印度有設廠區他要把那邊的好的技術工引進來台灣可能會發生在這裡所以我這邊本期要提醒勞動部就這個樣態一定要避免國內的職缺\n因為這個樣態被排擠。這個有做提醒。對,這裡是要小心的。因為他這個職聘是企業內職聘。是,沒錯。他是跨國企業的企業內職聘。而跨國企業內的職聘就很有可能那個職缺的控管會有一些沒槓。當然。勞動部這個要注意。當然。所以委員我要再次跟你強調我們是雙軌。\n就是仲介跟職聘雙軌對啊但是我如果是一個跨國企業我企業內體系我跨國都有點的時候我當然選擇職聘啊因為我當地公司可以recruitrecruit了之後再把它transfer到台灣這就職聘了但我不排斥這個方法因為這個企業可以用到合用的\n﹏﹏\n那印度方是願意?是!這個比較罕見的。這個就是非常罕見的而且我們非常感謝印方的積極跟對我們的友好。因為印度坦白講以往印度大概是在中印邊界開始丟石頭以後開始丟石頭丟石頭然後丟完石頭呢他們的國安部門\n我們駐印的使館也瞭解說他們的國安部門對於中國那邊的不管零部件的進口或者人的甚至於採購是有疑慮的現在等於擴大到他們的一般經貿部門過去比較親中的也開始設限了那回過頭來變台灣跟他就有一個合作的基礎所以這既是經濟又是外交所以我們這一次我方可以決定\n要求什麼樣的人才嗎?對,職類我們決定,名額也是我們決定。還有職聘,對方其實原來不同意的,被我們加進去的。對,還有包括醫療他們也願意負擔。印度會同意職聘其實蠻意外的,因為職聘他們當地跟他們的政治階層結合在一起的仲介業反彈很大,因為這個他們就賺不到錢了。\n那其實對臺灣的生意人臺灣的企業家跟印度勞工其實是有幫助的但我還是要提醒還是要避免排擠嘛那我最後要請教一個問題治安的部分其實我看到國人在擔憂的是治安的部分那我也藉由我們在立法院的委員會提醒國人\n對任何族裔的人我們都應該平等看待不能有英文叫Stereotype不能有那種僵化的或者固定的一個歧視跟誤解對國內的族群如此對國外也是印度是全球唯二超過10億以上的國家當然他們有他們的種姓制度那個是他們國家的內政所以對於\n移工的進入到臺灣有關治安的部分勞動部做什麼努力我問最後的問題就好了是我們現在已經跟移民署有對接在合作因為這個治安的部分我們要跟移民署一起控管這樣子所以我們可以要求移工比如說無犯罪紀錄啊是對有或者相關的保證等等對當然一定就是說\n不能因為別的國家有發生刑事案件我們就以為那個國家的人都是這樣的人就好像如果外國看台灣發生什麼刑事案件就認為台灣都這樣的人我覺得這個不好但是畢竟這是從另外一個國家來台灣工作有適應的問題有文化的差異文化的差異跟適應的問題可能要透過輔導跟各方面要來做處理這是勞動部的責任就好像現有的四國移工在台灣其實也造成了很大的一個就業市場有人會去安排住啊有人當翻譯嘛\n好,謝謝王定宇\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.516 --> 00:22.669\n請勞動部長好請部長部長第一次在這邊看到你有些問題要請教你我也代表國人要提出一些關心我們希望提供正確的訊息不便回答的或者資訊不完整的我們都可以讓你盡量補充你知道現在全世界都在搶人力資源\n\n00:23.750 --> 00:46.443\n人力資源我們細分其實可以分成白領的勞工技術工藍領的技術工還有一般的我們講過去講3K啦就是這個移工類的等等那這一次我們勞動部去跟印度簽這個MOU的原因是什麼是你們自己想到的還是台灣有產業界在遊說這個事情還是有什麼樣的需求\n\n00:48.181 --> 00:55.594\n這個因為當然就是要增加來源國的考量啦過去我們就是一直依賴那四國那個印度那四國你覺得不能再依賴\n\n00:58.001 --> 01:23.824\n因為他們全球也在搶他們也有很多我們看到的是越南本身也慢慢有缺工的情形泰國也有類似的情形所以原來那四國的經濟有起來有的是他們的移工去海外學的技術掌握了通路回去自己開公司像我們南部在做那個皮球的做那個足球的公司幾乎都被越南的取代掉了原因在這裡\n\n01:24.645 --> 01:24.925\n王定宇\n\n01:45.749 --> 02:08.935\n感謝每一位移工為台灣的付出不管他在家裡照顧長輩或者在烈日下做營建工程其實他們都在這片土地上付出心力不能去歧視他但是我們還是要提醒勞動部引進移工通常會面對第一個問題是會不會影響到台灣本土的勞工我們自己的勞工會不會因為印度的MOU受到影響你們有沒有什麼預防的設計\n\n02:10.017 --> 02:30.927\n委員其實台印的這個以移工引進他絕對是不會去影響到國內的就業機會因為其實這都是是國內的產業不足的部分才去補充的我們一定是優先以國內﹖我們以往是說國內的企業徵財徵財徵財三次徵不到財他才能開缺所以方法是跟過去的移工方式一樣\n\n02:31.929 --> 03:00.795\n當然是要一樣啊。有沒有新的設計?新的設計是所謂的職聘啦。那只是說在流程上面能夠更減少這個成本、更減少剝削、更減少這個只是這方面的服務的精進而已啦。職聘的話意思說我們過去在臺灣針對原來四國的移工都要經過重建嘛。那現在跟印度簽的MOU是除了經過重建以外\n\n03:01.475 --> 03:27.826\n對,再增加一個職聘的管道。對。那這個好處在哪裡?這個好處當然就是減少仲介中間的操縱。對,是是。可是這個要討慮對方的問題。因為印度本身沒有什麼職聘的制度。那他也是透過仲介的。所以當我方這邊要用職聘的時候,可能我這邊成本會比較高。對,我要到對方去設點。\n\n03:32.829 --> 03:55.443\n我們要嘗試把它...因為印度社會的文化結構跟我們不太一樣那他們那邊如果都是仲介公司那台灣某個企業他要職聘通常會職聘的人是因為他在印度有分公司他在印度有設企業點他要把那邊的人直接聘過來台灣他用職聘的他就知道要聘誰這種會用到\n\n03:57.950 --> 04:14.124\n那這樣子的情形下還是我要提醒勞動部還是要避免去排擠到臺灣本身的需求你懂意思嗎當然因為他在那邊因為在南印度的幾個省還有東印度其實臺灣有很多公司在那邊設廠\n\n04:15.405 --> 04:31.376\n所以執聘這一類是避免剝削所以印度移工他省得被人家剝好幾層皮對台灣的雇主我可以找到我想要的而不是來用美化我又換嘛那最常發現就是因為印度本身沒有什麼中介沒有什麼執聘制度\n\n04:32.156 --> 04:53.552\n所以常會發現是比如說台灣富士康在那邊有設一個工業區他就把那邊的想要聘過來他可以用職聘的或者某某企業在印度有設廠區他要把那邊的好的技術工引進來台灣可能會發生在這裡所以我這邊本期要提醒勞動部就這個樣態一定要避免國內的職缺\n\n04:55.413 --> 05:15.546\n因為這個樣態被排擠。這個有做提醒。對,這裡是要小心的。因為他這個職聘是企業內職聘。是,沒錯。他是跨國企業的企業內職聘。而跨國企業內的職聘就很有可能那個職缺的控管會有一些沒槓。當然。勞動部這個要注意。當然。所以委員我要再次跟你強調我們是雙軌。\n\n05:17.031 --> 05:37.166\n就是仲介跟職聘雙軌對啊但是我如果是一個跨國企業我企業內體系我跨國都有點的時候我當然選擇職聘啊因為我當地公司可以recruitrecruit了之後再把它transfer到台灣這就職聘了但我不排斥這個方法因為這個企業可以用到合用的\n\n05:59.474 --> 06:15.357\n那印度方是願意?是!這個比較罕見的。這個就是非常罕見的而且我們非常感謝印方的積極跟對我們的友好。因為印度坦白講以往印度大概是在中印邊界開始丟石頭以後開始丟石頭丟石頭然後丟完石頭呢他們的國安部門\n\n06:16.238 --> 06:42.167\n我們駐印的使館也瞭解說他們的國安部門對於中國那邊的不管零部件的進口或者人的甚至於採購是有疑慮的現在等於擴大到他們的一般經貿部門過去比較親中的也開始設限了那回過頭來變台灣跟他就有一個合作的基礎所以這既是經濟又是外交所以我們這一次我方可以決定\n\n06:43.047 --> 07:11.530\n要求什麼樣的人才嗎?對,職類我們決定,名額也是我們決定。還有職聘,對方其實原來不同意的,被我們加進去的。對,還有包括醫療他們也願意負擔。印度會同意職聘其實蠻意外的,因為職聘他們當地跟他們的政治階層結合在一起的仲介業反彈很大,因為這個他們就賺不到錢了。\n\n07:12.170 --> 07:29.592\n那其實對臺灣的生意人臺灣的企業家跟印度勞工其實是有幫助的但我還是要提醒還是要避免排擠嘛那我最後要請教一個問題治安的部分其實我看到國人在擔憂的是治安的部分那我也藉由我們在立法院的委員會提醒國人\n\n07:31.332 --> 07:52.326\n對任何族裔的人我們都應該平等看待不能有英文叫Stereotype不能有那種僵化的或者固定的一個歧視跟誤解對國內的族群如此對國外也是印度是全球唯二超過10億以上的國家當然他們有他們的種姓制度那個是他們國家的內政所以對於\n\n07:57.449 --> 08:16.687\n移工的進入到臺灣有關治安的部分勞動部做什麼努力我問最後的問題就好了是我們現在已經跟移民署有對接在合作因為這個治安的部分我們要跟移民署一起控管這樣子所以我們可以要求移工比如說無犯罪紀錄啊是對有或者相關的保證等等對當然一定就是說\n\n08:18.035 --> 08:47.538\n不能因為別的國家有發生刑事案件我們就以為那個國家的人都是這樣的人就好像如果外國看台灣發生什麼刑事案件就認為台灣都這樣的人我覺得這個不好但是畢竟這是從另外一個國家來台灣工作有適應的問題有文化的差異文化的差異跟適應的問題可能要透過輔導跟各方面要來做處理這是勞動部的責任就好像現有的四國移工在台灣其實也造成了很大的一個就業市場有人會去安排住啊有人當翻譯嘛\n\n08:47.978 --> 08:48.379\n好,謝謝王定宇\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.516,"end":22.669,"text":"請勞動部長好請部長部長第一次在這邊看到你有些問題要請教你我也代表國人要提出一些關心我們希望提供正確的訊息不便回答的或者資訊不完整的我們都可以讓你盡量補充你知道現在全世界都在搶人力資源"},{"start":23.75,"end":46.443,"text":"人力資源我們細分其實可以分成白領的勞工技術工藍領的技術工還有一般的我們講過去講3K啦就是這個移工類的等等那這一次我們勞動部去跟印度簽這個MOU的原因是什麼是你們自己想到的還是台灣有產業界在遊說這個事情還是有什麼樣的需求"},{"start":48.181,"end":55.594,"text":"這個因為當然就是要增加來源國的考量啦過去我們就是一直依賴那四國那個印度那四國你覺得不能再依賴"},{"start":58.001,"end":83.824,"text":"因為他們全球也在搶他們也有很多我們看到的是越南本身也慢慢有缺工的情形泰國也有類似的情形所以原來那四國的經濟有起來有的是他們的移工去海外學的技術掌握了通路回去自己開公司像我們南部在做那個皮球的做那個足球的公司幾乎都被越南的取代掉了原因在這裡"},{"start":84.645,"end":84.925,"text":"王定宇"},{"start":105.749,"end":128.935,"text":"感謝每一位移工為台灣的付出不管他在家裡照顧長輩或者在烈日下做營建工程其實他們都在這片土地上付出心力不能去歧視他但是我們還是要提醒勞動部引進移工通常會面對第一個問題是會不會影響到台灣本土的勞工我們自己的勞工會不會因為印度的MOU受到影響你們有沒有什麼預防的設計"},{"start":130.017,"end":150.927,"text":"委員其實台印的這個以移工引進他絕對是不會去影響到國內的就業機會因為其實這都是是國內的產業不足的部分才去補充的我們一定是優先以國內﹖我們以往是說國內的企業徵財徵財徵財三次徵不到財他才能開缺所以方法是跟過去的移工方式一樣"},{"start":151.929,"end":180.795,"text":"當然是要一樣啊。有沒有新的設計?新的設計是所謂的職聘啦。那只是說在流程上面能夠更減少這個成本、更減少剝削、更減少這個只是這方面的服務的精進而已啦。職聘的話意思說我們過去在臺灣針對原來四國的移工都要經過重建嘛。那現在跟印度簽的MOU是除了經過重建以外"},{"start":181.475,"end":207.826,"text":"對,再增加一個職聘的管道。對。那這個好處在哪裡?這個好處當然就是減少仲介中間的操縱。對,是是。可是這個要討慮對方的問題。因為印度本身沒有什麼職聘的制度。那他也是透過仲介的。所以當我方這邊要用職聘的時候,可能我這邊成本會比較高。對,我要到對方去設點。"},{"start":212.829,"end":235.443,"text":"我們要嘗試把它...因為印度社會的文化結構跟我們不太一樣那他們那邊如果都是仲介公司那台灣某個企業他要職聘通常會職聘的人是因為他在印度有分公司他在印度有設企業點他要把那邊的人直接聘過來台灣他用職聘的他就知道要聘誰這種會用到"},{"start":237.95,"end":254.124,"text":"那這樣子的情形下還是我要提醒勞動部還是要避免去排擠到臺灣本身的需求你懂意思嗎當然因為他在那邊因為在南印度的幾個省還有東印度其實臺灣有很多公司在那邊設廠"},{"start":255.405,"end":271.376,"text":"所以執聘這一類是避免剝削所以印度移工他省得被人家剝好幾層皮對台灣的雇主我可以找到我想要的而不是來用美化我又換嘛那最常發現就是因為印度本身沒有什麼中介沒有什麼執聘制度"},{"start":272.156,"end":293.552,"text":"所以常會發現是比如說台灣富士康在那邊有設一個工業區他就把那邊的想要聘過來他可以用職聘的或者某某企業在印度有設廠區他要把那邊的好的技術工引進來台灣可能會發生在這裡所以我這邊本期要提醒勞動部就這個樣態一定要避免國內的職缺"},{"start":295.413,"end":315.546,"text":"因為這個樣態被排擠。這個有做提醒。對,這裡是要小心的。因為他這個職聘是企業內職聘。是,沒錯。他是跨國企業的企業內職聘。而跨國企業內的職聘就很有可能那個職缺的控管會有一些沒槓。當然。勞動部這個要注意。當然。所以委員我要再次跟你強調我們是雙軌。"},{"start":317.031,"end":337.166,"text":"就是仲介跟職聘雙軌對啊但是我如果是一個跨國企業我企業內體系我跨國都有點的時候我當然選擇職聘啊因為我當地公司可以recruitrecruit了之後再把它transfer到台灣這就職聘了但我不排斥這個方法因為這個企業可以用到合用的"},{"start":338.063,"end":359.394,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":359.474,"end":375.357,"text":"那印度方是願意?是!這個比較罕見的。這個就是非常罕見的而且我們非常感謝印方的積極跟對我們的友好。因為印度坦白講以往印度大概是在中印邊界開始丟石頭以後開始丟石頭丟石頭然後丟完石頭呢他們的國安部門"},{"start":376.238,"end":402.167,"text":"我們駐印的使館也瞭解說他們的國安部門對於中國那邊的不管零部件的進口或者人的甚至於採購是有疑慮的現在等於擴大到他們的一般經貿部門過去比較親中的也開始設限了那回過頭來變台灣跟他就有一個合作的基礎所以這既是經濟又是外交所以我們這一次我方可以決定"},{"start":403.047,"end":431.53,"text":"要求什麼樣的人才嗎?對,職類我們決定,名額也是我們決定。還有職聘,對方其實原來不同意的,被我們加進去的。對,還有包括醫療他們也願意負擔。印度會同意職聘其實蠻意外的,因為職聘他們當地跟他們的政治階層結合在一起的仲介業反彈很大,因為這個他們就賺不到錢了。"},{"start":432.17,"end":449.592,"text":"那其實對臺灣的生意人臺灣的企業家跟印度勞工其實是有幫助的但我還是要提醒還是要避免排擠嘛那我最後要請教一個問題治安的部分其實我看到國人在擔憂的是治安的部分那我也藉由我們在立法院的委員會提醒國人"},{"start":451.332,"end":472.326,"text":"對任何族裔的人我們都應該平等看待不能有英文叫Stereotype不能有那種僵化的或者固定的一個歧視跟誤解對國內的族群如此對國外也是印度是全球唯二超過10億以上的國家當然他們有他們的種姓制度那個是他們國家的內政所以對於"},{"start":477.449,"end":496.687,"text":"移工的進入到臺灣有關治安的部分勞動部做什麼努力我問最後的問題就好了是我們現在已經跟移民署有對接在合作因為這個治安的部分我們要跟移民署一起控管這樣子所以我們可以要求移工比如說無犯罪紀錄啊是對有或者相關的保證等等對當然一定就是說"},{"start":498.035,"end":527.538,"text":"不能因為別的國家有發生刑事案件我們就以為那個國家的人都是這樣的人就好像如果外國看台灣發生什麼刑事案件就認為台灣都這樣的人我覺得這個不好但是畢竟這是從另外一個國家來台灣工作有適應的問題有文化的差異文化的差異跟適應的問題可能要透過輔導跟各方面要來做處理這是勞動部的責任就好像現有的四國移工在台灣其實也造成了很大的一個就業市場有人會去安排住啊有人當翻譯嘛"},{"start":527.978,"end":528.379,"text":"好,謝謝王定宇"}]}}}}