{"id":154276,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154276","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd1cf3af8f8d3f359d4a22d6087941f42bc3176ac657cb8ac9c855b1c4d5317d4a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:15:58 - 11:26:03","影片長度":"00:10:05","會議時間":"2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n四、審查委員李柏毅等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n五、審查委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查委員許智傑等25人擬具「學生輔導法第四條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n七、審查委員許智傑等26人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n八、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n九、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、審查委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、審查委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、審查委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、審查委員郭國文等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、審查委員郭國文等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、審查委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、審查委員王育敏等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、審查委員萬美玲等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「學生輔導法第五條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員馬文君等24人擬具「學生輔導法第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員林月琴等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(6月26日僅進行詢答)\n【6月24日及26日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-26","start_time":"2024-06-26T11:15:58+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-26T11:26:03+08:00","duration":605,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":435,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（11時16分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["郭委員昱晴：部長好！"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好！"],["郭委員昱晴：首先，剛剛其實陳秀寳委員也有特別提到，就是關於回歸教育部補助學校電費的問題，剛剛其實我也聽到部長有特別回應，這一筆預算大概將近20億，因為我們有收到一些陳情，但是撇除這些陳情之外，我接著下來要問，補助的這個20億會不會擠壓到學校的其他補助？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們現在跟主計總處也在做這個溝通，希望這個電費能夠採從總體的預算裡邊給予更多的支持，確實，如果教育經費不變，當然一定會有一些影響，我們當然也會檢討內部怎麼樣讓這些經費能夠用到刀口上，能夠產生更大的效益，而不浪費，我想這也是我們從內部稽核的機制裡邊能夠來努力的。"],["郭委員昱晴：是，我們也擔心這個20億的補助可能會擠壓到其他的部分，希望不要捉襟見肘。","回到學生輔導法這個部分，我記得4月中的時候我們在公聽會上也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的數字，剛剛有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到，尤其讓我們比較覺得觸目驚心的就是國小生的自殺通報件數在這五年已經高達有10倍之多。我們都知道，學生輔導法大部分的修法重點會放在第二級和第三級，就是介入性和處遇性，比較少會針對所謂的第一級（發展性輔導），但是其實我特別想要提到，發展性輔導如果沒有強化的話，就會間接引發其他的第二級和第三級，最後累垮的就是我們的專業輔導人力。","當然就不同的輔導案量，還有不同區域的資源，這個部分其實也是我們即將要修法的重點，我想各個委員也都有特別提到。剛剛也有委員特別提到，就是專輔人力員額上的不足，以及專業度的培養，在專輔人力的部分，就他們勞動條件的改善，或者是加給，甚至福利，還有他們在學校面對不同輔導個案身心上所處的這種高壓負面能量，我們是不是能夠給予這些所謂的專輔人力更多的支持？","我舉個例子來說，全國光是國中的部分，有6成是全校只有1位專輔教師，這個的確是相當不夠的，變成只有這1位專輔人力要面對全校的不同狀況，我們知道，現在國中小，甚至高中，自殺的比例或者是通報的案件之所以會這麼的多，其實大部分都跟所謂的情緒障礙有關，但是情緒障礙是需要更專業的輔導、更專業的人力去面對，那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題？我想這個部分也是我們想要特別表達的。","我再舉例，其實有些兼輔的老師說他平常就有所謂的導師工作，他只能夠輔導1名學童，反觀專輔老師能夠輔導12名孩童，這個差距其實是非常非常大的。另外，我們可以看到，南投縣總共有137間國小，6班以下的學校占了三分之二，所以大部分所謂的輔導人員都是由教師來兼任；在偏鄉的部分，以苗栗縣來說，偏鄉學校占了三分之一。專輔的人力不足也會導致他們必須要跨校，不是只有跑班而已，必須要跨校，跨校之後，他可能就要借助所謂的特教助理員來做一些輔導工作，這個人力上的配置，我在想，其實也是跟整個資源、環境有很大很大的差距，落實在第一線的教育現場，我們其實看到很多，包含行政，包含老師，包含專輔人員，對於他們的權責及他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容，其實是權責不明的，這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分，部長，您怎麼看？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指正，本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正回應社會的期待，能夠維護學生的受教權，能夠讓老師發揮他的專業盡情教學，所以對這些偏鄉或者小班的學校，我們都會至少確保它有1位這樣的專任輔導老師，他不要再跨校。先前內部確實曾經也有討論，我們非常理解偏鄉、小校都是交通比較不方便的地方，要讓一個老師去跑兩所學校，對學生輔導工作的推動與支持，事實上，都是不利的，所以我們這一次修法的一個重點也朝這樣的方向，當然這一定會增加所謂的經費這些……"],["郭委員昱晴：但我想學生的權益……"],["鄭部長英耀：但是我們還是考慮到以學生的受教及教育的品質為優先。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我們當然以這個部分為優先，這個部分，其實在第十一條本席也特別提出我自己的版本，就是就偏遠學校來講，原本是20校，其實20校是完全不夠的，我是縮短到了6校，這個部分我們可以再來做討論。","因為時間的關係，最後一個問題，我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假，也是畢業季，我相信剛剛提到的不管是第二級、第三級被輔導的這些個案中有很多也有可能要離開原來的一些環境，或者是處在這一段空窗期當中，我想知道的是在所謂的空窗期，我們的輔導怎麼銜接？怎麼協助？這個部分有沒有納入你們的考量範圍中？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，在暑假期間，我們對我們自己的學生當然有一定的輔導關照，包括校外他們家庭的許多活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒，委員說的我們事實上都在做。至於畢業生的部分，我們在社會裡還是有很多的相關機構，事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的支持網絡，這些事實上都有。"],["郭委員昱晴：我想將來對空窗期這個部分可能還要再考慮得更清楚些，因為不是只有暑假，可能寒假也是。再來就是學生他可能是從這個學校晉升到國中或者是國中畢業要到高中，如果他本來就是比較具有關注性、必須被高度關注的一個族群的個案，我們可能也要把這個空窗期納入來討論，好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上地方的學諮中心就有這樣的一個功能，隨時就能夠提供，對象不僅是在校生。"],["郭委員昱晴：對這個部分，教育部可能也要去掌握一下地方彙整的一些資料並持續追蹤，我想這樣對學生受教育的權益或被輔導的權益可能會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實，也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分，好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，謝謝。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝部長！謝謝主席！"],["主席：謝謝郭委員，接下來我們請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-17","speakers":["柯志恩","陳秀寳","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅智強","陳菁徽","葛如鈞","范雲","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳亭妃","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩","林憶君","王育敏","吳春城","林月琴"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2024-06-26"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員范雲等17人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員林宜瑾等22人\n擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條\n文修正草案」案；四、審查委員李柏毅等 18 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；\n五、審查委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員許智傑等25\n人擬具「學生輔導法第四條及第七條條文修正草案」案；七、審查委員許智傑等26人擬具「學生\n輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；八、審查委員柯志恩等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正\n草案」案；九、審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十、審查\n委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、審查委員洪孟楷等22人擬具\n「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十二、審查委員陳秀寳等20人擬具「學生輔導法部分\n條文修正草案」案；十三、審查委員郭昱晴等 19 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」\n案；十四、審查委員葛如鈞等16人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十五、審查委員郭\n國文等 19 人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；十六、審查委員郭國文等 19 人擬具\n「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；十七、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條\n文修正草案」案；十八、審查委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；\n十九、審查委員王育敏等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十、審查委員萬\n美玲等19人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十一、審查委員羅智強等16人擬具\n「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案；二十二、審查委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「學生輔導法第五條\n及第七條條文修正草案」案；二十三、審查委員馬文君等24人擬具「學生輔導法第五條條文修正\n草案」案；二十四、審查委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十\n五、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「學生輔導法第十一條條文修正草案」案；二十六、審查委員林\n月琴等19人擬具「學生輔導法部分條文修正草案」案(僅進行詢答)","agenda_id":"1136601_00012"}},"transcript":{"id":"154276","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154276","tool":"pyannote","id":"154276-pyannote"},"job_id":"TNZbFpE9JtEXcEwk","queued_at":"2024-06-26 11:44:51","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-26 11:44:57","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154276","target":null},{"time":"2024-06-26 11:44:58","msg":"downloading 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\"words\": [{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 329.378, \"end\": 329.398, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 329.398, \"end\": 329.478, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 329.478, \"end\": 329.498, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"雅\", \"start\": 329.498, \"end\": 329.518, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"琳\", \"start\": 329.518, \"end\": 329.658, \"score\": 0.57}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 329.658, \"end\": 329.738, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 329.738, \"end\": 329.758, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}]}, {\"start\": 351.016, \"end\": 361.443, \"text\": \"此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 351.016, \"end\": 351.456, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 351.456, \"end\": 351.937, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \",\"}, 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{\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 360.362, \"end\": 360.442, \"score\": 0.545}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 360.442, \"end\": 360.462, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 360.462, \"end\": 360.562, \"score\": 0.624}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 360.562, \"end\": 360.582, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 360.582, \"end\": 360.602, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 360.602, \"end\": 360.882, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 360.882, \"end\": 361.423, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 361.423, \"end\": 361.443, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 375.136, \"end\": 399.767, \"text\": \"謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 375.136, \"end\": 375.356, 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\"end\": 599.144, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 599.144, \"end\": 599.565, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 599.565, \"end\": 600.045, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 600.045, \"end\": 600.505, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 600.505, \"end\": 601.325, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 601.325, \"end\": 601.465, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 601.465, \"end\": 601.485, \"score\": 0.924}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,891 --> 00:00:09,463\n謝謝主席,有請部長。好,我們請部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,551 --> 00:00:22,255\n教育部要回歸教育部補助學校電費的一個問題。那剛剛其實我也聽到了部長有特別的回應就是說這一筆的整個所有的預算大概將近快20億。\n\n3\n00:00:38,749 --> 00:00:56,441\n我接著下來問就是說因為我們有收到一些陳情但是撇除這些陳情之外呢我接著下來問就是說這個補助的20億會不會擠壓到其他的一些學校的一些其他的補助的這樣子的一個部分\n\n4\n00:00:59,468 --> 00:01:22,680\n確實我們現在跟委員報告我們也跟主計總署也在做這個溝通希望能夠對這個定位能夠才從總體的一個預算裡面給予更多的一些支持那確實如果教育經費不變他當然一定會有一些那有時候我們當然會檢討內部\n\n5\n00:01:24,801 --> 00:01:27,203\nbicyclope等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案》案。bicyclope\n\n6\n00:01:41,614 --> 00:02:06,389\n對,因為我們也擔心就是因為這個21的一個補助可能也會擠壓到其他的一些部分然後就希望不要捉襟見肘好,那麼回到這個學生輔導法的這個部分的話那我想這個學生輔導我記得在4月中的時候我們在這個公聽會上其實也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的一些數字那剛剛其實有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到尤其是讓我們比較覺得\n\n7\n00:02:08,650 --> 00:02:09,791\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n8\n00:02:24,825 --> 00:02:48,651\n介入性及處遇性但比較少會針對所謂的第一級這個發展性的一個輔導但是其實我也特別想要提到就是這個發展性的這個輔導其實如果沒有加強強化的話其實間接的就會引發其他第二級跟第三級那最後其實累垮的就是我們的這個專業的輔導的人力\n\n9\n00:02:50,732 --> 00:02:52,312\n等19人擬具〈學生輔導法部分條文修正草案〉案。\n\n10\n00:03:17,159 --> 00:03:34,757\n為什麼會在我們的專輔人力的人員的部分其實就是就他們的勞動條件不管是有沒有改善或者是加起甚至福利還有這些專輔人員在學校他們在面對這些不同被輔導的一些個案他們身心上所處的這種\n\n11\n00:03:36,479 --> 00:03:37,480\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n\n12\n00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:53,780\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n13\n00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:43,768\n但是這個情緒障礙其實是需要更專業的輔導更專業的人力去面對那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題我想這個部分也是我們想要特別要表達的喔那我再舉例喔其實有些兼任兼導的導師他說他平常就有所謂的導師的工作\n\n14\n00:04:45,288 --> 00:05:06,420\n只能夠輔導一名的學童但是跟專輔老師能夠輔導12名的孩童這個差距其實是非常非常大的另外在南投的部分我們可以看到總共有137個南投縣的部分有137間學校六班以下的學校佔了三分之二\n\n15\n00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:28,718\n所以大部分的所謂的輔導的人員都是由教師來做兼任那另外呢就是專輔老師的這個偏鄉的部分以苗栗縣來說他佔了所謂的三分之一偏鄉的學校那專輔的人力不足其實也會導致他們必須要跨校\n\n16\n00:05:29,378 --> 00:05:29,758\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n\n17\n00:05:51,016 --> 00:06:01,443\n此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?\n\n18\n00:06:15,136 --> 00:06:39,767\n謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位\n\n19\n00:06:40,714 --> 00:06:41,334\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n20\n00:06:58,843 --> 00:06:58,883\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n21\n00:07:27,981 --> 00:07:28,782\n二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n\n22\n00:07:47,875 --> 00:08:02,167\n最後一個問題我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假那也是畢業季那我相信有很多剛剛所提到的不管是第二集第三集被輔導的這些所謂的應該是說個案那他們\n\n23\n00:08:07,312 --> 00:08:07,893\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n24\n00:08:29,564 --> 00:08:52,050\n謝謝委員提醒因為屬於這個暑假本來我們自己的學生當然我們有一定的這些對這個學生的一個輔導關照包括校外的許多他們家庭的一些活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒委員所說的這都是我們事實上都在做但是屬於那個畢業生裡面\n\n25\n00:08:53,590 --> 00:08:54,511\nadequ.\n\n26\n00:08:54,511 --> 00:09:22,590\n實際上在社會裡面還是有很多的一個機構裡面他事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的一個支持網絡我想這個事實上都有的我想這個部分可能將來我們還要再考慮得更清楚也把這些空窗型因為不是只有暑假可能寒假也是然後再來就是學生他從這個學校可能要晉升到國中或者國中畢業要到高中那他如果本來就是一些比較具有關注性\n\n27\n00:09:23,050 --> 00:09:23,470\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n28\n00:09:40,440 --> 00:10:01,485\n教育部這個部分可能也要去掌握一下地方能夠有彙整的一些資料可能也要持續的這個做追蹤我想這個對於學生的這個受教的權益或者是他們被輔導的一個權益可能還是會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實那也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分好嗎好謝謝委員提出謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6891\t9463\t謝謝主席,有請部長。好,我們請部長\n17551\t22255\t教育部要回歸教育部補助學校電費的一個問題。那剛剛其實我也聽到了部長有特別的回應就是說這一筆的整個所有的預算大概將近快20億。\n38749\t56441\t我接著下來問就是說因為我們有收到一些陳情但是撇除這些陳情之外呢我接著下來問就是說這個補助的20億會不會擠壓到其他的一些學校的一些其他的補助的這樣子的一個部分\n59468\t82680\t確實我們現在跟委員報告我們也跟主計總署也在做這個溝通希望能夠對這個定位能夠才從總體的一個預算裡面給予更多的一些支持那確實如果教育經費不變他當然一定會有一些那有時候我們當然會檢討內部\n84801\t87203\tbicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案》案。 bicyclope\n101614\t126389\t對,因為我們也擔心就是因為這個21的一個補助可能也會擠壓到其他的一些部分然後就希望不要捉襟見肘好,那麼回到這個學生輔導法的這個部分的話那我想這個學生輔導我記得在4月中的時候我們在這個公聽會上其實也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的一些數字那剛剛其實有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到尤其是讓我們比較覺得\n128650\t129791\t一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n144825\t168651\t介入性及處遇性但比較少會針對所謂的第一級這個發展性的一個輔導但是其實我也特別想要提到就是這個發展性的這個輔導其實如果沒有加強強化的話其實間接的就會引發其他第二級跟第三級那最後其實累垮的就是我們的這個專業的輔導的人力\n170732\t172312\t等19人擬具〈學生輔導法部分條文修正草案〉案。\n197159\t214757\t為什麼會在我們的專輔人力的人員的部分其實就是就他們的勞動條件不管是有沒有改善或者是加起甚至福利還有這些專輔人員在學校他們在面對這些不同被輔導的一些個案他們身心上所處的這種\n216479\t217480\t一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n233160\t233780\t三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n263400\t283768\t但是這個情緒障礙其實是需要更專業的輔導更專業的人力去面對那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題我想這個部分也是我們想要特別要表達的喔那我再舉例喔其實有些兼任兼導的導師他說他平常就有所謂的導師的工作\n285288\t306420\t只能夠輔導一名的學童但是跟專輔老師能夠輔導12名的孩童這個差距其實是非常非常大的另外在南投的部分我們可以看到總共有137個南投縣的部分有137間學校六班以下的學校佔了三分之二\n307000\t328718\t所以大部分的所謂的輔導的人員都是由教師來做兼任那另外呢就是專輔老師的這個偏鄉的部分以苗栗縣來說他佔了所謂的三分之一偏鄉的學校那專輔的人力不足其實也會導致他們必須要跨校\n329378\t329758\t一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n351016\t361443\t此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?\n375136\t399767\t謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位\n400714\t401334\t三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n418843\t418883\t﹝請勿模仿﹞\n447981\t448782\t二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n467875\t482167\t最後一個問題我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假那也是畢業季那我相信有很多剛剛所提到的不管是第二集第三集被輔導的這些所謂的應該是說個案那他們\n487312\t487893\t議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n509564\t532050\t謝謝委員提醒因為屬於這個暑假本來我們自己的學生當然我們有一定的這些對這個學生的一個輔導關照包括校外的許多他們家庭的一些活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒委員所說的這都是我們事實上都在做但是屬於那個畢業生裡面\n533590\t534511\tadequ.\n534511\t562590\t實際上在社會裡面還是有很多的一個機構裡面他事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的一個支持網絡我想這個事實上都有的我想這個部分可能將來我們還要再考慮得更清楚也把這些空窗型因為不是只有暑假可能寒假也是然後再來就是學生他從這個學校可能要晉升到國中或者國中畢業要到高中那他如果本來就是一些比較具有關注性\n563050\t563470\t三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n580440\t601485\t教育部這個部分可能也要去掌握一下地方能夠有彙整的一些資料可能也要持續的這個做追蹤我想這個對於學生的這個受教的權益或者是他們被輔導的一個權益可能還是會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實那也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分好嗎好謝謝委員提出謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長。好,我們請部長\n教育部要回歸教育部補助學校電費的一個問題。那剛剛其實我也聽到了部長有特別的回應就是說這一筆的整個所有的預算大概將近快20億。\n我接著下來問就是說因為我們有收到一些陳情但是撇除這些陳情之外呢我接著下來問就是說這個補助的20億會不會擠壓到其他的一些學校的一些其他的補助的這樣子的一個部分\n確實我們現在跟委員報告我們也跟主計總署也在做這個溝通希望能夠對這個定位能夠才從總體的一個預算裡面給予更多的一些支持那確實如果教育經費不變他當然一定會有一些那有時候我們當然會檢討內部\nbicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案》案。 bicyclope\n對,因為我們也擔心就是因為這個21的一個補助可能也會擠壓到其他的一些部分然後就希望不要捉襟見肘好,那麼回到這個學生輔導法的這個部分的話那我想這個學生輔導我記得在4月中的時候我們在這個公聽會上其實也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的一些數字那剛剛其實有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到尤其是讓我們比較覺得\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n介入性及處遇性但比較少會針對所謂的第一級這個發展性的一個輔導但是其實我也特別想要提到就是這個發展性的這個輔導其實如果沒有加強強化的話其實間接的就會引發其他第二級跟第三級那最後其實累垮的就是我們的這個專業的輔導的人力\n等19人擬具〈學生輔導法部分條文修正草案〉案。\n為什麼會在我們的專輔人力的人員的部分其實就是就他們的勞動條件不管是有沒有改善或者是加起甚至福利還有這些專輔人員在學校他們在面對這些不同被輔導的一些個案他們身心上所處的這種\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n但是這個情緒障礙其實是需要更專業的輔導更專業的人力去面對那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題我想這個部分也是我們想要特別要表達的喔那我再舉例喔其實有些兼任兼導的導師他說他平常就有所謂的導師的工作\n只能夠輔導一名的學童但是跟專輔老師能夠輔導12名的孩童這個差距其實是非常非常大的另外在南投的部分我們可以看到總共有137個南投縣的部分有137間學校六班以下的學校佔了三分之二\n所以大部分的所謂的輔導的人員都是由教師來做兼任那另外呢就是專輔老師的這個偏鄉的部分以苗栗縣來說他佔了所謂的三分之一偏鄉的學校那專輔的人力不足其實也會導致他們必須要跨校\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?\n謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n最後一個問題我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假那也是畢業季那我相信有很多剛剛所提到的不管是第二集第三集被輔導的這些所謂的應該是說個案那他們\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n謝謝委員提醒因為屬於這個暑假本來我們自己的學生當然我們有一定的這些對這個學生的一個輔導關照包括校外的許多他們家庭的一些活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒委員所說的這都是我們事實上都在做但是屬於那個畢業生裡面\nadequ.\n實際上在社會裡面還是有很多的一個機構裡面他事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的一個支持網絡我想這個事實上都有的我想這個部分可能將來我們還要再考慮得更清楚也把這些空窗型因為不是只有暑假可能寒假也是然後再來就是學生他從這個學校可能要晉升到國中或者國中畢業要到高中那他如果本來就是一些比較具有關注性\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n教育部這個部分可能也要去掌握一下地方能夠有彙整的一些資料可能也要持續的這個做追蹤我想這個對於學生的這個受教的權益或者是他們被輔導的一個權益可能還是會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實那也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分好嗎好謝謝委員提出謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.891 --> 00:09.463\n謝謝主席,有請部長。好,我們請部長\n\n00:17.551 --> 00:22.255\n教育部要回歸教育部補助學校電費的一個問題。那剛剛其實我也聽到了部長有特別的回應就是說這一筆的整個所有的預算大概將近快20億。\n\n00:38.749 --> 00:56.441\n我接著下來問就是說因為我們有收到一些陳情但是撇除這些陳情之外呢我接著下來問就是說這個補助的20億會不會擠壓到其他的一些學校的一些其他的補助的這樣子的一個部分\n\n00:59.468 --> 01:22.680\n確實我們現在跟委員報告我們也跟主計總署也在做這個溝通希望能夠對這個定位能夠才從總體的一個預算裡面給予更多的一些支持那確實如果教育經費不變他當然一定會有一些那有時候我們當然會檢討內部\n\n01:24.801 --> 01:27.203\nbicyclope等19人擬具«學生輔導法部分條文修正草案》案。bicyclope\n\n01:41.614 --> 02:06.389\n對,因為我們也擔心就是因為這個21的一個補助可能也會擠壓到其他的一些部分然後就希望不要捉襟見肘好,那麼回到這個學生輔導法的這個部分的話那我想這個學生輔導我記得在4月中的時候我們在這個公聽會上其實也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的一些數字那剛剛其實有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到尤其是讓我們比較覺得\n\n02:08.650 --> 02:09.791\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n02:24.825 --> 02:48.651\n介入性及處遇性但比較少會針對所謂的第一級這個發展性的一個輔導但是其實我也特別想要提到就是這個發展性的這個輔導其實如果沒有加強強化的話其實間接的就會引發其他第二級跟第三級那最後其實累垮的就是我們的這個專業的輔導的人力\n\n02:50.732 --> 02:52.312\n等19人擬具〈學生輔導法部分條文修正草案〉案。\n\n03:17.159 --> 03:34.757\n為什麼會在我們的專輔人力的人員的部分其實就是就他們的勞動條件不管是有沒有改善或者是加起甚至福利還有這些專輔人員在學校他們在面對這些不同被輔導的一些個案他們身心上所處的這種\n\n03:36.479 --> 03:37.480\n一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n\n03:53.160 --> 03:53.780\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n04:23.400 --> 04:43.768\n但是這個情緒障礙其實是需要更專業的輔導更專業的人力去面對那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題我想這個部分也是我們想要特別要表達的喔那我再舉例喔其實有些兼任兼導的導師他說他平常就有所謂的導師的工作\n\n04:45.288 --> 05:06.420\n只能夠輔導一名的學童但是跟專輔老師能夠輔導12名的孩童這個差距其實是非常非常大的另外在南投的部分我們可以看到總共有137個南投縣的部分有137間學校六班以下的學校佔了三分之二\n\n05:07.000 --> 05:28.718\n所以大部分的所謂的輔導的人員都是由教師來做兼任那另外呢就是專輔老師的這個偏鄉的部分以苗栗縣來說他佔了所謂的三分之一偏鄉的學校那專輔的人力不足其實也會導致他們必須要跨校\n\n05:29.378 --> 05:29.758\n一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬\n\n05:51.016 --> 06:01.443\n此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?\n\n06:15.136 --> 06:39.767\n謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位\n\n06:40.714 --> 06:41.334\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n06:58.843 --> 06:58.883\n﹝請勿模仿﹞\n\n07:27.981 --> 07:28.782\n二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具\n\n07:47.875 --> 08:02.167\n最後一個問題我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假那也是畢業季那我相信有很多剛剛所提到的不管是第二集第三集被輔導的這些所謂的應該是說個案那他們\n\n08:07.312 --> 08:07.893\n議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n08:29.564 --> 08:52.050\n謝謝委員提醒因為屬於這個暑假本來我們自己的學生當然我們有一定的這些對這個學生的一個輔導關照包括校外的許多他們家庭的一些活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒委員所說的這都是我們事實上都在做但是屬於那個畢業生裡面\n\n08:53.590 --> 08:54.511\nadequ.\n\n08:54.511 --> 09:22.590\n實際上在社會裡面還是有很多的一個機構裡面他事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的一個支持網絡我想這個事實上都有的我想這個部分可能將來我們還要再考慮得更清楚也把這些空窗型因為不是只有暑假可能寒假也是然後再來就是學生他從這個學校可能要晉升到國中或者國中畢業要到高中那他如果本來就是一些比較具有關注性\n\n09:23.050 --> 09:23.470\n三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬\n\n09:40.440 --> 10:01.485\n教育部這個部分可能也要去掌握一下地方能夠有彙整的一些資料可能也要持續的這個做追蹤我想這個對於學生的這個受教的權益或者是他們被輔導的一個權益可能還是會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實那也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分好嗎好謝謝委員提出謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.891,"end":9.463,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長。好,我們請部長"},{"start":17.551,"end":22.255,"text":"教育部要回歸教育部補助學校電費的一個問題。那剛剛其實我也聽到了部長有特別的回應就是說這一筆的整個所有的預算大概將近快20億。"},{"start":38.749,"end":56.441,"text":"我接著下來問就是說因為我們有收到一些陳情但是撇除這些陳情之外呢我接著下來問就是說這個補助的20億會不會擠壓到其他的一些學校的一些其他的補助的這樣子的一個部分"},{"start":59.468,"end":82.68,"text":"確實我們現在跟委員報告我們也跟主計總署也在做這個溝通希望能夠對這個定位能夠才從總體的一個預算裡面給予更多的一些支持那確實如果教育經費不變他當然一定會有一些那有時候我們當然會檢討內部"},{"start":84.801,"end":87.203,"text":" bicyclope等19人擬具 «學生輔導法部分條文修正草案》案。 bicyclope"},{"start":101.614,"end":126.389,"text":"對,因為我們也擔心就是因為這個21的一個補助可能也會擠壓到其他的一些部分然後就希望不要捉襟見肘好,那麼回到這個學生輔導法的這個部分的話那我想這個學生輔導我記得在4月中的時候我們在這個公聽會上其實也聽到了一些讓人覺得很擔憂也很擔心的一些數字那剛剛其實有好多的委員其實也都有特別提到尤其是讓我們比較覺得"},{"start":128.65,"end":129.791,"text":"一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":144.825,"end":168.651,"text":"介入性及處遇性但比較少會針對所謂的第一級這個發展性的一個輔導但是其實我也特別想要提到就是這個發展性的這個輔導其實如果沒有加強強化的話其實間接的就會引發其他第二級跟第三級那最後其實累垮的就是我們的這個專業的輔導的人力"},{"start":170.732,"end":172.312,"text":"等19人擬具〈學生輔導法部分條文修正草案〉案。"},{"start":197.159,"end":214.757,"text":"為什麼會在我們的專輔人力的人員的部分其實就是就他們的勞動條件不管是有沒有改善或者是加起甚至福利還有這些專輔人員在學校他們在面對這些不同被輔導的一些個案他們身心上所處的這種"},{"start":216.479,"end":217.48,"text":"一、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具"},{"start":233.16,"end":233.78,"text":"三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":263.4,"end":283.768,"text":"但是這個情緒障礙其實是需要更專業的輔導更專業的人力去面對那我們怎麼樣去解決這一塊的問題我想這個部分也是我們想要特別要表達的喔那我再舉例喔其實有些兼任兼導的導師他說他平常就有所謂的導師的工作"},{"start":285.288,"end":306.42,"text":"只能夠輔導一名的學童但是跟專輔老師能夠輔導12名的孩童這個差距其實是非常非常大的另外在南投的部分我們可以看到總共有137個南投縣的部分有137間學校六班以下的學校佔了三分之二"},{"start":307,"end":328.718,"text":"所以大部分的所謂的輔導的人員都是由教師來做兼任那另外呢就是專輔老師的這個偏鄉的部分以苗栗縣來說他佔了所謂的三分之一偏鄉的學校那專輔的人力不足其實也會導致他們必須要跨校"},{"start":329.378,"end":329.758,"text":"一、審查委員張雅琳等19人擬"},{"start":351.016,"end":361.443,"text":"此外,在第一線的教育現場,我們其實看到有很多包含行政、包含老師、包含專輔人員對於他們的選擇,跟他們必須要去做的輔導諮詢的工作內容,其實是會選擇不明。這也是我們比較擔心的。這個部分,部長您怎麼看?"},{"start":375.136,"end":399.767,"text":"謝謝委員的指正確實我們怎麼樣去本來這一次的修法就是希望能夠真正能夠回應這個社會的期待然後能夠維護學生的受教權能夠讓老師能夠發揮他的專業進行這個教學所以我們對這些偏鄉或者說小班的學校我們都會至少確保他有一位"},{"start":400.714,"end":401.334,"text":"三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":418.843,"end":418.883,"text":" ﹝請勿模仿﹞"},{"start":447.981,"end":448.782,"text":"二、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬具"},{"start":467.875,"end":482.167,"text":"最後一個問題我比較想要知道的是因為現在除了即將要來臨的暑假那也是畢業季那我相信有很多剛剛所提到的不管是第二集第三集被輔導的這些所謂的應該是說個案那他們"},{"start":487.312,"end":487.893,"text":"議員林宜瑾等19人擬議員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":509.564,"end":532.05,"text":"謝謝委員提醒因為屬於這個暑假本來我們自己的學生當然我們有一定的這些對這個學生的一個輔導關照包括校外的許多他們家庭的一些活動我們都會有一些所謂的提醒委員所說的這都是我們事實上都在做但是屬於那個畢業生裡面"},{"start":533.59,"end":534.511,"text":"adequ."},{"start":534.511,"end":562.59,"text":"實際上在社會裡面還是有很多的一個機構裡面他事實上是可以銜接變成一個社會的一個支持網絡我想這個事實上都有的我想這個部分可能將來我們還要再考慮得更清楚也把這些空窗型因為不是只有暑假可能寒假也是然後再來就是學生他從這個學校可能要晉升到國中或者國中畢業要到高中那他如果本來就是一些比較具有關注性"},{"start":563.05,"end":563.47,"text":"三、審查委員林宜瑾等19人擬"},{"start":580.44,"end":601.485,"text":"教育部這個部分可能也要去掌握一下地方能夠有彙整的一些資料可能也要持續的這個做追蹤我想這個對於學生的這個受教的權益或者是他們被輔導的一個權益可能還是會比較能夠貼近他們原本的事實那也是我們能夠顧全的一個部分好嗎好謝謝委員提出謝謝好謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]}}}}