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\"end\": 379.546, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 379.546, \"end\": 379.766, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 379.766, \"end\": 379.886, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 379.886, \"end\": 380.026, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 380.026, \"end\": 380.147, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 380.147, \"end\": 380.307, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 380.307, \"end\": 380.407, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 380.407, \"end\": 380.527, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 380.527, \"end\": 380.707, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 380.707, \"end\": 380.927, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 380.927, \"end\": 381.547, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 381.547, \"end\": 381.687, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 381.687, \"end\": 381.928, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": 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0.902}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 473.63, \"end\": 474.25, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 474.25, \"end\": 474.611, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"M\", \"start\": 474.611, \"end\": 475.211, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 475.211, \"end\": 475.371, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"U\", \"start\": 475.371, \"end\": 475.511, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 475.511, \"end\": 475.911, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 475.911, \"end\": 475.931, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 476.331, \"end\": 505.84, \"text\": \"那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 476.331, \"end\": 476.451, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 476.451, \"end\": 476.571, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"果\", 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{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 556.575, \"end\": 556.735, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 556.735, \"end\": 556.835, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 556.835, \"end\": 557.016, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 557.016, \"end\": 557.156, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 557.156, \"end\": 557.736, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 557.736, \"end\": 557.856, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 557.856, \"end\": 557.936, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 557.936, \"end\": 558.096, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 558.096, \"end\": 558.236, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 558.236, \"end\": 558.416, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 558.416, \"end\": 558.557, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 558.557, \"end\": 558.697, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 558.697, \"end\": 558.737, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 558.737, \"end\": 558.957, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 558.957, \"end\": 559.237, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 559.237, \"end\": 559.717, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 559.717, \"end\": 559.877, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 559.877, \"end\": 560.358, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 560.358, \"end\": 560.478, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 560.478, \"end\": 560.578, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 560.578, \"end\": 560.858, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 560.858, \"end\": 560.998, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 560.998, \"end\": 561.638, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 561.638, \"end\": 561.778, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 561.778, \"end\": 562.119, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 562.119, \"end\": 562.239, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 562.239, \"end\": 562.399, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 562.399, \"end\": 563.64, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 563.64, \"end\": 563.8, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 563.8, \"end\": 563.98, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 563.98, \"end\": 564.16, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 564.16, \"end\": 564.66, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 564.66, \"end\": 564.82, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 564.82, \"end\": 565.12, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 565.12, \"end\": 565.401, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"拾\", \"start\": 565.401, \"end\": 565.421, \"score\": 0.113}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 565.981, \"end\": 566.021, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 566.021, \"end\": 566.241, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 566.241, \"end\": 566.521, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 566.521, \"end\": 566.682, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 566.682, \"end\": 566.702, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,139 --> 00:00:16,252\n謝謝主席,麻煩請勞動部部長以及發展署蔡署長好來部長署長請\n\n2\n00:00:20,274 --> 00:00:41,100\n委員好部長好我想就今天這個台印雙方引進勞工的合作備忘錄的部分首先我想要請教就是我們本委員會是採逐條審查那審查的意見有任何一個條文如果沒有通過的話這個MOU就會全部就退回這個勞動部不予查照\n\n3\n00:00:42,141 --> 00:00:52,599\n可是事實上MOU是外交部代簽的那實際的內容的擬定勞動部你們應該都有全程的主導跟掌控吧?應該有吧?\n\n4\n00:00:53,719 --> 00:01:17,993\n有好那蔡署長我要請教就是說這個MOU的內容有很多的原則是跟現在其他引進這個外勞的國家外籍勞工的國家並不一樣那有些就跟這個就業服務法還有執法以及這個行政命令是有抵觸的我就先來舉個例子給你們看就是在第7條\n\n5\n00:01:20,414 --> 00:01:43,003\n的這個規定在雙方雙方領域內指定醫院對勞工健康檢查那令勞工醫療費用應由健康保險及意外保險負擔勞工無力負擔時應由印度方協助解決這裡的醫療費用如果涉及懷孕生產是不是也由印度政府來協助解決\n\n6\n00:01:44,003 --> 00:01:59,761\n對,因為目前這個條約我就確認這個部分那現行的這個外籍勞工的這個來源政府來源國的政府例如印尼他們有沒有協助他們的這個外籍勞工來支付醫療費用\n\n7\n00:02:02,484 --> 00:02:28,737\n委員報告目前因為我們跟印尼沒有這個條文但是在雙邊會議當中我們都有提出應該由他來負責所以印尼我們沒有簽但是印度有這個條文對印尼的條文沒有特別加注那再來我們看第二個例子在第10條就無證的這些失聯的印度勞工收容及遣送由我方負責無證的勞工應支付收容遣返及醫療費用\n\n8\n00:02:29,798 --> 00:02:57,031\n印度方應協助促進清償那我要請教目前印尼外籍勞工的這個逃逸的遣送回國費用是由誰負擔?是不是原僱主?目前我們目前那個遣送費用是由非法僱主或非法媒介好沒關係那如果是的話那為什麼印度的外籍勞工就要由他們的政府來協助解決?\n\n9\n00:02:58,069 --> 00:03:00,811\n這些外籍勞工的遣返回國的費用有沒有規範在舊福法的執法或行政命令?\n\n10\n00:03:20,826 --> 00:03:43,156\n對,遣返費用目前在救護法有。好,那如果有的話,將來印度勞工逃逸的遣返為什麼是他們政府就要協助而印尼不用呢?這樣有沒有公平性的問題?目前就是如果是屬於非法移工他要付的這個費用,那如果他無法清償的話,目前我們就希望只有萊文國要負擔這樣的一個責任。\n\n11\n00:03:44,875 --> 00:03:45,295\n第三個例子\n\n12\n00:04:03,053 --> 00:04:17,619\n上次4月25日的時候本期已經有質詢過勞動部變相有鼓勵逃逸的外籍勞工在台灣生小孩非法生小孩\n\n13\n00:04:19,119 --> 00:04:39,348\n我這樣講是有依據的啦當然你們不會寫得這麼明白但是有些政策就是變相的鼓勵那再來喔印尼政府呢已經其實對台灣的這些相關規定是非常不滿的他們是有聲音出來的因為我們這些規定其實都在製造他們的國內的社會問題因為呢\n\n14\n00:04:41,969 --> 00:05:07,858\n我這個我好好解釋一下因為印尼主要的信仰是伊斯蘭教那國情是相當的保守所以他們對於婚前性行為跟婚外情是零容忍所以呢我們再看一下他們目前的這個刑法的規定和婚外情的對象同居最高可求處一年有期徒刑2022年的時候12月6日他們已經有修法通過從2025年\n\n15\n00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:34,898\n開始即將生效就是未來發生婚外情將從現行的一年有期徒刑改成最高5年那此法也都適用在任何一位踏進印尼境內的外籍人士所以再來就是說根據這個印度政府簽署的這個MOU\n\n16\n00:05:40,433 --> 00:05:51,327\n陳瑩說:「無法逃逸的印度勞工收容及遣返還有醫療包含生產的費用都是由印度方來協助清場。」\n\n17\n00:05:55,091 --> 00:06:22,368\n但是發展署給這些逃逸在台然後非法生小孩的這些補助跟安置是不分國籍全體適用的甚至還有享有這些生育假碼所以因為由於這個跟印方簽署的MOU還與我們這個現行的執法還有行政命令是有抵觸所以本席想確認的是\n\n18\n00:06:24,329 --> 00:06:50,956\n你們勞動部鼓勵就是鼓勵並支援非法的逃逸外勞在台灣生小孩那唯獨不鼓勵也不支持印度的那這樣子就是說是這樣子嗎?我就想要確認因為MOU的簽署就不同嘛救福法那個規定是合法移工的啦\n\n19\n00:06:53,225 --> 00:07:12,154\n對,是規範合法移工的權利部長你可能有所不知我當然知道你們的補助你們一定會講說補助是合法的勞工但是你們敢不敢跟我保證這當中沒有把非法的洗白然後撤掉他們逃逸的身份你敢說這一件都沒有嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:13,354 --> 00:07:26,783\n我今天在這裡講所以我說部長你不知道啊這個你可以回頭好好的去了解一下實際的狀況是什麼到底有沒有這種洗白的案例\n\n21\n00:07:28,584 --> 00:07:55,931\n我們再來瞭解看看好嗎?對!請你們好好的去瞭解我今天講我們就有所本好不好?好!那也做這樣的提醒啦所以這就是為什麼我要一再的就是說一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等等一下對不起我漏掉了就是說最後一點我要問的是說如果這個MOU退回之後勞動部有沒有需要跟印尼重啟談判MOU的內容?\n\n22\n00:07:56,331 --> 00:08:25,840\n那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的\n\n23\n00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:55,522\n因為MOU它是一個基本原則的備忘不是說我們想要重啟談判就可以隨時重啟的事情因為規範的是基本原則的問題所以原則都沒有辦法堅持的話就有我們的這個國格尊嚴的問題這是相當嚴重的問題所以希望勞動部可以謹慎處理而且就是說日前我們的許前部長這個失言引發了風波那勞動部跟外交部都有發新聞稿道歉\n\n24\n00:08:56,563 --> 00:09:25,421\n目前台印雙方合作其實就是越來越緊密莫迪總理的連任賴總統也親自恭賀也受到這個總理的公開善意的回應所以最後真的要好好的提醒我真的不希望說一個MOU還有重啟談判的風險所以一定要支持這個版本那我們今天就是要特別提醒不要造成這個不同國有不同制的問題如果萬一再引發爭議真的是一發不可收拾\n\n25\n00:09:25,981 --> 00:09:26,702\n接下來我們請劉建國委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10139\t16252\t謝謝主席,麻煩請勞動部部長以及發展署蔡署長好來部長署長請\n20274\t41100\t委員好部長好我想就今天這個台印雙方引進勞工的合作備忘錄的部分首先我想要請教就是我們本委員會是採逐條審查那審查的意見有任何一個條文如果沒有通過的話這個MOU就會全部就退回這個勞動部不予查照\n42141\t52599\t可是事實上MOU是外交部代簽的那實際的內容的擬定勞動部你們應該都有全程的主導跟掌控吧?應該有吧?\n53719\t77993\t有好那蔡署長我要請教就是說這個MOU的內容有很多的原則是跟現在其他引進這個外勞的國家外籍勞工的國家並不一樣那有些就跟這個就業服務法還有執法以及這個行政命令是有抵觸的我就先來舉個例子給你們看就是在第7條\n80414\t103003\t的這個規定在雙方雙方領域內指定醫院對勞工健康檢查那令勞工醫療費用應由健康保險及意外保險負擔勞工無力負擔時應由印度方協助解決這裡的醫療費用如果涉及懷孕生產是不是也由印度政府來協助解決\n104003\t119761\t對,因為目前這個條約我就確認這個部分那現行的這個外籍勞工的這個來源政府來源國的政府例如印尼他們有沒有協助他們的這個外籍勞工來支付醫療費用\n122484\t148737\t委員報告目前因為我們跟印尼沒有這個條文但是在雙邊會議當中我們都有提出應該由他來負責所以印尼我們沒有簽但是印度有這個條文對印尼的條文沒有特別加注那再來我們看第二個例子在第10條就無證的這些失聯的印度勞工收容及遣送由我方負責無證的勞工應支付收容遣返及醫療費用\n149798\t177031\t印度方應協助促進清償那我要請教目前印尼外籍勞工的這個逃逸的遣送回國費用是由誰負擔?是不是原僱主?目前我們目前那個遣送費用是由非法僱主或非法媒介好沒關係那如果是的話那為什麼印度的外籍勞工就要由他們的政府來協助解決?\n178069\t180811\t這些外籍勞工的遣返回國的費用有沒有規範在舊福法的執法或行政命令?\n200826\t223156\t對,遣返費用目前在救護法有。好,那如果有的話,將來印度勞工逃逸的遣返為什麼是他們政府就要協助而印尼不用呢?這樣有沒有公平性的問題?目前就是如果是屬於非法移工他要付的這個費用,那如果他無法清償的話,目前我們就希望只有萊文國要負擔這樣的一個責任。\n224875\t225295\t第三個例子\n243053\t257619\t上次4月25日的時候本期已經有質詢過勞動部變相有鼓勵逃逸的外籍勞工在台灣生小孩非法生小孩\n259119\t279348\t我這樣講是有依據的啦當然你們不會寫得這麼明白但是有些政策就是變相的鼓勵那再來喔印尼政府呢已經其實對台灣的這些相關規定是非常不滿的他們是有聲音出來的因為我們這些規定其實都在製造他們的國內的社會問題因為呢\n281969\t307858\t我這個我好好解釋一下因為印尼主要的信仰是伊斯蘭教那國情是相當的保守所以他們對於婚前性行為跟婚外情是零容忍所以呢我們再看一下他們目前的這個刑法的規定和婚外情的對象同居最高可求處一年有期徒刑2022年的時候12月6日他們已經有修法通過從2025年\n310840\t334898\t開始即將生效就是未來發生婚外情將從現行的一年有期徒刑改成最高5年那此法也都適用在任何一位踏進印尼境內的外籍人士所以再來就是說根據這個印度政府簽署的這個MOU\n340433\t351327\t陳瑩說:「無法逃逸的印度勞工收容及遣返還有醫療包含生產的費用都是由印度方來協助清場。」\n355091\t382368\t但是發展署給這些逃逸在台然後非法生小孩的這些補助跟安置是不分國籍全體適用的甚至還有享有這些生育假碼所以因為由於這個跟印方簽署的MOU還與我們這個現行的執法還有行政命令是有抵觸所以本席想確認的是\n384329\t410956\t你們勞動部鼓勵就是鼓勵並支援非法的逃逸外勞在台灣生小孩那唯獨不鼓勵也不支持印度的那這樣子就是說是這樣子嗎?我就想要確認因為MOU的簽署就不同嘛救福法那個規定是合法移工的啦\n413225\t432154\t對,是規範合法移工的權利部長你可能有所不知我當然知道你們的補助你們一定會講說補助是合法的勞工但是你們敢不敢跟我保證這當中沒有把非法的洗白然後撤掉他們逃逸的身份你敢說這一件都沒有嗎?\n433354\t446783\t我今天在這裡講 所以我說部長你不知道啊 這個你可以回頭好好的去了解一下實際的狀況是什麼到底有沒有這種洗白的案例\n448584\t475931\t我們再來瞭解看看好嗎?對!請你們好好的去瞭解我今天講我們就有所本好不好?好!那也做這樣的提醒啦所以這就是為什麼我要一再的就是說一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等等一下對不起我漏掉了就是說最後一點我要問的是說如果這個MOU退回之後勞動部有沒有需要跟印尼重啟談判MOU的內容?\n476331\t505840\t那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的\n506280\t535522\t因為MOU它是一個基本原則的備忘不是說我們想要重啟談判就可以隨時重啟的事情因為規範的是基本原則的問題所以原則都沒有辦法堅持的話就有我們的這個國格尊嚴的問題這是相當嚴重的問題所以希望勞動部可以謹慎處理而且就是說日前我們的許前部長這個失言引發了風波那勞動部跟外交部都有發新聞稿道歉\n536563\t565421\t目前台印雙方合作其實就是越來越緊密莫迪總理的連任賴總統也親自恭賀也受到這個總理的公開善意的回應所以最後真的要好好的提醒我真的不希望說一個MOU還有重啟談判的風險所以一定要支持這個版本那我們今天就是要特別提醒不要造成這個不同國有不同制的問題如果萬一再引發爭議真的是一發不可收拾\n565981\t566702\t接下來我們請劉建國委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,麻煩請勞動部部長以及發展署蔡署長好來部長署長請\n委員好部長好我想就今天這個台印雙方引進勞工的合作備忘錄的部分首先我想要請教就是我們本委員會是採逐條審查那審查的意見有任何一個條文如果沒有通過的話這個MOU就會全部就退回這個勞動部不予查照\n可是事實上MOU是外交部代簽的那實際的內容的擬定勞動部你們應該都有全程的主導跟掌控吧?應該有吧?\n有好那蔡署長我要請教就是說這個MOU的內容有很多的原則是跟現在其他引進這個外勞的國家外籍勞工的國家並不一樣那有些就跟這個就業服務法還有執法以及這個行政命令是有抵觸的我就先來舉個例子給你們看就是在第7條\n的這個規定在雙方雙方領域內指定醫院對勞工健康檢查那令勞工醫療費用應由健康保險及意外保險負擔勞工無力負擔時應由印度方協助解決這裡的醫療費用如果涉及懷孕生產是不是也由印度政府來協助解決\n對,因為目前這個條約我就確認這個部分那現行的這個外籍勞工的這個來源政府來源國的政府例如印尼他們有沒有協助他們的這個外籍勞工來支付醫療費用\n委員報告目前因為我們跟印尼沒有這個條文但是在雙邊會議當中我們都有提出應該由他來負責所以印尼我們沒有簽但是印度有這個條文對印尼的條文沒有特別加注那再來我們看第二個例子在第10條就無證的這些失聯的印度勞工收容及遣送由我方負責無證的勞工應支付收容遣返及醫療費用\n印度方應協助促進清償那我要請教目前印尼外籍勞工的這個逃逸的遣送回國費用是由誰負擔?是不是原僱主?目前我們目前那個遣送費用是由非法僱主或非法媒介好沒關係那如果是的話那為什麼印度的外籍勞工就要由他們的政府來協助解決?\n這些外籍勞工的遣返回國的費用有沒有規範在舊福法的執法或行政命令?\n對,遣返費用目前在救護法有。好,那如果有的話,將來印度勞工逃逸的遣返為什麼是他們政府就要協助而印尼不用呢?這樣有沒有公平性的問題?目前就是如果是屬於非法移工他要付的這個費用,那如果他無法清償的話,目前我們就希望只有萊文國要負擔這樣的一個責任。\n第三個例子\n上次4月25日的時候本期已經有質詢過勞動部變相有鼓勵逃逸的外籍勞工在台灣生小孩非法生小孩\n我這樣講是有依據的啦當然你們不會寫得這麼明白但是有些政策就是變相的鼓勵那再來喔印尼政府呢已經其實對台灣的這些相關規定是非常不滿的他們是有聲音出來的因為我們這些規定其實都在製造他們的國內的社會問題因為呢\n我這個我好好解釋一下因為印尼主要的信仰是伊斯蘭教那國情是相當的保守所以他們對於婚前性行為跟婚外情是零容忍所以呢我們再看一下他們目前的這個刑法的規定和婚外情的對象同居最高可求處一年有期徒刑2022年的時候12月6日他們已經有修法通過從2025年\n開始即將生效就是未來發生婚外情將從現行的一年有期徒刑改成最高5年那此法也都適用在任何一位踏進印尼境內的外籍人士所以再來就是說根據這個印度政府簽署的這個MOU\n陳瑩說:「無法逃逸的印度勞工收容及遣返還有醫療包含生產的費用都是由印度方來協助清場。」\n但是發展署給這些逃逸在台然後非法生小孩的這些補助跟安置是不分國籍全體適用的甚至還有享有這些生育假碼所以因為由於這個跟印方簽署的MOU還與我們這個現行的執法還有行政命令是有抵觸所以本席想確認的是\n你們勞動部鼓勵就是鼓勵並支援非法的逃逸外勞在台灣生小孩那唯獨不鼓勵也不支持印度的那這樣子就是說是這樣子嗎?我就想要確認因為MOU的簽署就不同嘛救福法那個規定是合法移工的啦\n對,是規範合法移工的權利部長你可能有所不知我當然知道你們的補助你們一定會講說補助是合法的勞工但是你們敢不敢跟我保證這當中沒有把非法的洗白然後撤掉他們逃逸的身份你敢說這一件都沒有嗎?\n我今天在這裡講 所以我說部長你不知道啊 這個你可以回頭好好的去了解一下實際的狀況是什麼到底有沒有這種洗白的案例\n我們再來瞭解看看好嗎?對!請你們好好的去瞭解我今天講我們就有所本好不好?好!那也做這樣的提醒啦所以這就是為什麼我要一再的就是說一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等等一下對不起我漏掉了就是說最後一點我要問的是說如果這個MOU退回之後勞動部有沒有需要跟印尼重啟談判MOU的內容?\n那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的\n因為MOU它是一個基本原則的備忘不是說我們想要重啟談判就可以隨時重啟的事情因為規範的是基本原則的問題所以原則都沒有辦法堅持的話就有我們的這個國格尊嚴的問題這是相當嚴重的問題所以希望勞動部可以謹慎處理而且就是說日前我們的許前部長這個失言引發了風波那勞動部跟外交部都有發新聞稿道歉\n目前台印雙方合作其實就是越來越緊密莫迪總理的連任賴總統也親自恭賀也受到這個總理的公開善意的回應所以最後真的要好好的提醒我真的不希望說一個MOU還有重啟談判的風險所以一定要支持這個版本那我們今天就是要特別提醒不要造成這個不同國有不同制的問題如果萬一再引發爭議真的是一發不可收拾\n接下來我們請劉建國委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.139 --> 00:16.252\n謝謝主席,麻煩請勞動部部長以及發展署蔡署長好來部長署長請\n\n00:20.274 --> 00:41.100\n委員好部長好我想就今天這個台印雙方引進勞工的合作備忘錄的部分首先我想要請教就是我們本委員會是採逐條審查那審查的意見有任何一個條文如果沒有通過的話這個MOU就會全部就退回這個勞動部不予查照\n\n00:42.141 --> 00:52.599\n可是事實上MOU是外交部代簽的那實際的內容的擬定勞動部你們應該都有全程的主導跟掌控吧?應該有吧?\n\n00:53.719 --> 01:17.993\n有好那蔡署長我要請教就是說這個MOU的內容有很多的原則是跟現在其他引進這個外勞的國家外籍勞工的國家並不一樣那有些就跟這個就業服務法還有執法以及這個行政命令是有抵觸的我就先來舉個例子給你們看就是在第7條\n\n01:20.414 --> 01:43.003\n的這個規定在雙方雙方領域內指定醫院對勞工健康檢查那令勞工醫療費用應由健康保險及意外保險負擔勞工無力負擔時應由印度方協助解決這裡的醫療費用如果涉及懷孕生產是不是也由印度政府來協助解決\n\n01:44.003 --> 01:59.761\n對,因為目前這個條約我就確認這個部分那現行的這個外籍勞工的這個來源政府來源國的政府例如印尼他們有沒有協助他們的這個外籍勞工來支付醫療費用\n\n02:02.484 --> 02:28.737\n委員報告目前因為我們跟印尼沒有這個條文但是在雙邊會議當中我們都有提出應該由他來負責所以印尼我們沒有簽但是印度有這個條文對印尼的條文沒有特別加注那再來我們看第二個例子在第10條就無證的這些失聯的印度勞工收容及遣送由我方負責無證的勞工應支付收容遣返及醫療費用\n\n02:29.798 --> 02:57.031\n印度方應協助促進清償那我要請教目前印尼外籍勞工的這個逃逸的遣送回國費用是由誰負擔?是不是原僱主?目前我們目前那個遣送費用是由非法僱主或非法媒介好沒關係那如果是的話那為什麼印度的外籍勞工就要由他們的政府來協助解決?\n\n02:58.069 --> 03:00.811\n這些外籍勞工的遣返回國的費用有沒有規範在舊福法的執法或行政命令?\n\n03:20.826 --> 03:43.156\n對,遣返費用目前在救護法有。好,那如果有的話,將來印度勞工逃逸的遣返為什麼是他們政府就要協助而印尼不用呢?這樣有沒有公平性的問題?目前就是如果是屬於非法移工他要付的這個費用,那如果他無法清償的話,目前我們就希望只有萊文國要負擔這樣的一個責任。\n\n03:44.875 --> 03:45.295\n第三個例子\n\n04:03.053 --> 04:17.619\n上次4月25日的時候本期已經有質詢過勞動部變相有鼓勵逃逸的外籍勞工在台灣生小孩非法生小孩\n\n04:19.119 --> 04:39.348\n我這樣講是有依據的啦當然你們不會寫得這麼明白但是有些政策就是變相的鼓勵那再來喔印尼政府呢已經其實對台灣的這些相關規定是非常不滿的他們是有聲音出來的因為我們這些規定其實都在製造他們的國內的社會問題因為呢\n\n04:41.969 --> 05:07.858\n我這個我好好解釋一下因為印尼主要的信仰是伊斯蘭教那國情是相當的保守所以他們對於婚前性行為跟婚外情是零容忍所以呢我們再看一下他們目前的這個刑法的規定和婚外情的對象同居最高可求處一年有期徒刑2022年的時候12月6日他們已經有修法通過從2025年\n\n05:10.840 --> 05:34.898\n開始即將生效就是未來發生婚外情將從現行的一年有期徒刑改成最高5年那此法也都適用在任何一位踏進印尼境內的外籍人士所以再來就是說根據這個印度政府簽署的這個MOU\n\n05:40.433 --> 05:51.327\n陳瑩說:「無法逃逸的印度勞工收容及遣返還有醫療包含生產的費用都是由印度方來協助清場。」\n\n05:55.091 --> 06:22.368\n但是發展署給這些逃逸在台然後非法生小孩的這些補助跟安置是不分國籍全體適用的甚至還有享有這些生育假碼所以因為由於這個跟印方簽署的MOU還與我們這個現行的執法還有行政命令是有抵觸所以本席想確認的是\n\n06:24.329 --> 06:50.956\n你們勞動部鼓勵就是鼓勵並支援非法的逃逸外勞在台灣生小孩那唯獨不鼓勵也不支持印度的那這樣子就是說是這樣子嗎?我就想要確認因為MOU的簽署就不同嘛救福法那個規定是合法移工的啦\n\n06:53.225 --> 07:12.154\n對,是規範合法移工的權利部長你可能有所不知我當然知道你們的補助你們一定會講說補助是合法的勞工但是你們敢不敢跟我保證這當中沒有把非法的洗白然後撤掉他們逃逸的身份你敢說這一件都沒有嗎?\n\n07:13.354 --> 07:26.783\n我今天在這裡講所以我說部長你不知道啊這個你可以回頭好好的去了解一下實際的狀況是什麼到底有沒有這種洗白的案例\n\n07:28.584 --> 07:55.931\n我們再來瞭解看看好嗎?對!請你們好好的去瞭解我今天講我們就有所本好不好?好!那也做這樣的提醒啦所以這就是為什麼我要一再的就是說一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等等一下對不起我漏掉了就是說最後一點我要問的是說如果這個MOU退回之後勞動部有沒有需要跟印尼重啟談判MOU的內容?\n\n07:56.331 --> 08:25.840\n那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的\n\n08:26.280 --> 08:55.522\n因為MOU它是一個基本原則的備忘不是說我們想要重啟談判就可以隨時重啟的事情因為規範的是基本原則的問題所以原則都沒有辦法堅持的話就有我們的這個國格尊嚴的問題這是相當嚴重的問題所以希望勞動部可以謹慎處理而且就是說日前我們的許前部長這個失言引發了風波那勞動部跟外交部都有發新聞稿道歉\n\n08:56.563 --> 09:25.421\n目前台印雙方合作其實就是越來越緊密莫迪總理的連任賴總統也親自恭賀也受到這個總理的公開善意的回應所以最後真的要好好的提醒我真的不希望說一個MOU還有重啟談判的風險所以一定要支持這個版本那我們今天就是要特別提醒不要造成這個不同國有不同制的問題如果萬一再引發爭議真的是一發不可收拾\n\n09:25.981 --> 09:26.702\n接下來我們請劉建國委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.139,"end":16.252,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請勞動部部長以及發展署蔡署長好來部長署長請"},{"start":20.274,"end":41.1,"text":"委員好部長好我想就今天這個台印雙方引進勞工的合作備忘錄的部分首先我想要請教就是我們本委員會是採逐條審查那審查的意見有任何一個條文如果沒有通過的話這個MOU就會全部就退回這個勞動部不予查照"},{"start":42.141,"end":52.599,"text":"可是事實上MOU是外交部代簽的那實際的內容的擬定勞動部你們應該都有全程的主導跟掌控吧?應該有吧?"},{"start":53.719,"end":77.993,"text":"有好那蔡署長我要請教就是說這個MOU的內容有很多的原則是跟現在其他引進這個外勞的國家外籍勞工的國家並不一樣那有些就跟這個就業服務法還有執法以及這個行政命令是有抵觸的我就先來舉個例子給你們看就是在第7條"},{"start":80.414,"end":103.003,"text":"的這個規定在雙方雙方領域內指定醫院對勞工健康檢查那令勞工醫療費用應由健康保險及意外保險負擔勞工無力負擔時應由印度方協助解決這裡的醫療費用如果涉及懷孕生產是不是也由印度政府來協助解決"},{"start":104.003,"end":119.761,"text":"對,因為目前這個條約我就確認這個部分那現行的這個外籍勞工的這個來源政府來源國的政府例如印尼他們有沒有協助他們的這個外籍勞工來支付醫療費用"},{"start":122.484,"end":148.737,"text":"委員報告目前因為我們跟印尼沒有這個條文但是在雙邊會議當中我們都有提出應該由他來負責所以印尼我們沒有簽但是印度有這個條文對印尼的條文沒有特別加注那再來我們看第二個例子在第10條就無證的這些失聯的印度勞工收容及遣送由我方負責無證的勞工應支付收容遣返及醫療費用"},{"start":149.798,"end":177.031,"text":"印度方應協助促進清償那我要請教目前印尼外籍勞工的這個逃逸的遣送回國費用是由誰負擔?是不是原僱主?目前我們目前那個遣送費用是由非法僱主或非法媒介好沒關係那如果是的話那為什麼印度的外籍勞工就要由他們的政府來協助解決?"},{"start":178.069,"end":180.811,"text":"這些外籍勞工的遣返回國的費用有沒有規範在舊福法的執法或行政命令?"},{"start":200.826,"end":223.156,"text":"對,遣返費用目前在救護法有。好,那如果有的話,將來印度勞工逃逸的遣返為什麼是他們政府就要協助而印尼不用呢?這樣有沒有公平性的問題?目前就是如果是屬於非法移工他要付的這個費用,那如果他無法清償的話,目前我們就希望只有萊文國要負擔這樣的一個責任。"},{"start":224.875,"end":225.295,"text":"第三個例子"},{"start":243.053,"end":257.619,"text":"上次4月25日的時候本期已經有質詢過勞動部變相有鼓勵逃逸的外籍勞工在台灣生小孩非法生小孩"},{"start":259.119,"end":279.348,"text":"我這樣講是有依據的啦當然你們不會寫得這麼明白但是有些政策就是變相的鼓勵那再來喔印尼政府呢已經其實對台灣的這些相關規定是非常不滿的他們是有聲音出來的因為我們這些規定其實都在製造他們的國內的社會問題因為呢"},{"start":281.969,"end":307.858,"text":"我這個我好好解釋一下因為印尼主要的信仰是伊斯蘭教那國情是相當的保守所以他們對於婚前性行為跟婚外情是零容忍所以呢我們再看一下他們目前的這個刑法的規定和婚外情的對象同居最高可求處一年有期徒刑2022年的時候12月6日他們已經有修法通過從2025年"},{"start":310.84,"end":334.898,"text":"開始即將生效就是未來發生婚外情將從現行的一年有期徒刑改成最高5年那此法也都適用在任何一位踏進印尼境內的外籍人士所以再來就是說根據這個印度政府簽署的這個MOU"},{"start":340.433,"end":351.327,"text":"陳瑩說:「無法逃逸的印度勞工收容及遣返還有醫療包含生產的費用都是由印度方來協助清場。」"},{"start":355.091,"end":382.368,"text":"但是發展署給這些逃逸在台然後非法生小孩的這些補助跟安置是不分國籍全體適用的甚至還有享有這些生育假碼所以因為由於這個跟印方簽署的MOU還與我們這個現行的執法還有行政命令是有抵觸所以本席想確認的是"},{"start":384.329,"end":410.956,"text":"你們勞動部鼓勵就是鼓勵並支援非法的逃逸外勞在台灣生小孩那唯獨不鼓勵也不支持印度的那這樣子就是說是這樣子嗎?我就想要確認因為MOU的簽署就不同嘛救福法那個規定是合法移工的啦"},{"start":413.225,"end":432.154,"text":"對,是規範合法移工的權利部長你可能有所不知我當然知道你們的補助你們一定會講說補助是合法的勞工但是你們敢不敢跟我保證這當中沒有把非法的洗白然後撤掉他們逃逸的身份你敢說這一件都沒有嗎?"},{"start":433.354,"end":446.783,"text":"我今天在這裡講 所以我說部長你不知道啊 這個你可以回頭好好的去了解一下實際的狀況是什麼到底有沒有這種洗白的案例"},{"start":448.584,"end":475.931,"text":"我們再來瞭解看看好嗎?對!請你們好好的去瞭解我今天講我們就有所本好不好?好!那也做這樣的提醒啦所以這就是為什麼我要一再的就是說一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等等一下對不起我漏掉了就是說最後一點我要問的是說如果這個MOU退回之後勞動部有沒有需要跟印尼重啟談判MOU的內容?"},{"start":476.331,"end":505.84,"text":"那如果再重新簽署部長覺得說部長你會不會覺得人家跟我們會再重啟談判嗎應該蠻難的啦很難嘛所以這就是為什麼我一開始我要提醒就是說國民平等待遇原則下不能有不同國家的差別待遇那你們簽署的這個MOU有很多的原則是跟目前跟其他國家是不一樣那這裡面會不會有涉及修法的問題還有這個來源國本法本國法律的規定的問題這個都是要注意的"},{"start":506.28,"end":535.522,"text":"因為MOU它是一個基本原則的備忘不是說我們想要重啟談判就可以隨時重啟的事情因為規範的是基本原則的問題所以原則都沒有辦法堅持的話就有我們的這個國格尊嚴的問題這是相當嚴重的問題所以希望勞動部可以謹慎處理而且就是說日前我們的許前部長這個失言引發了風波那勞動部跟外交部都有發新聞稿道歉"},{"start":536.563,"end":565.421,"text":"目前台印雙方合作其實就是越來越緊密莫迪總理的連任賴總統也親自恭賀也受到這個總理的公開善意的回應所以最後真的要好好的提醒我真的不希望說一個MOU還有重啟談判的風險所以一定要支持這個版本那我們今天就是要特別提醒不要造成這個不同國有不同制的問題如果萬一再引發爭議真的是一發不可收拾"},{"start":565.981,"end":566.702,"text":"接下來我們請劉建國委員"}]}}}}