{"id":154341,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154341","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726c7fcb1090dc28759c4b539dbd63c1cc911377aa0ad8b688792eac597dcc0aeba65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"09:39:15 - 09:52:55","影片長度":"00:13:40","會議時間":"2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第30次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「如何運用國際友我組織力量，協助我國加入聯合國相關組織具體做法」，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-27","start_time":"2024-06-27T09:39:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-27T09:52:55+08:00","duration":820,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第30次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":30,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-30"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":137,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（9時39分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：有請部長，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：部長早。"],["林部長佳龍：委員早。"],["馬委員文君：部長，今天我們有幾個議題，我首先想請教，民主基金會在您看來重不重要？它成立以後成效如何？"],["林部長佳龍：民主基金會很重要，自成立以來發揮很好的二軌外交的效果，而且跨黨派的參與，跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩。特別是我們的代理執行長，我聽了他完整的簡報，我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果，非常的感謝，我們會繼續努力。有一些民主基金會的業務，我待會請執行長……"],["馬委員文君：不用，業務我們很清楚，因為民主基金會每年在編預算的時候，大概就會做一些初步的報告，我們現在比較希望知道的是，既然部長覺得它很重要，也做得很好，它在業務上的推動其實是要持續的。我想請教一下，在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中，部長提議聘用執行長卻被擱置的原因是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：第8屆第1次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長，而董事長因為主持立法院的會議請假，由我代理，因為他推薦的人也沒有在場，但董事們很想瞭解董事長所提名的人，所以經過大家討論，也經過表決決定擱置，下次會議再來決定。"],["馬委員文君：盧業中，大家會不太認識他嗎？就以他個人……"],["林部長佳龍：很多人在說卡「盧」，但是「盧」是誰？他們都想成另外一個「盧」了。"],["馬委員文君：因為我們所有行政院……部長，包括行政院或者總統提名很多人選讓立法院去投票的時候，他們也是一樣的，我們都會看很多的資料，不可能我們成員、董監事們沒有看過他的背景資料。如果不知道的話，在這裡我簡單再說一下，因為之前黃玉霖執行長，如果你們就之前執行業務狀況非常肯定的話，他是一個土木工程的背景，過去也曾經在臺中市政府、交通部服務過，可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：現在盧業中本身，如果他本身就是國際關係的專業，又是外交這方面的一個專業，他來擔任這樣的職務，有什麼樣的問題嗎？如果這空窗期讓我們覺得變成政黨的惡鬥，這樣是很不好的，因為如果預算要可以通過……從過去到現在，成立後經過了國民黨、經過了民進黨執政，其實都沒有人干涉過多，都希望二軌外交可以順利地推動，如果讓我們有這樣的感受，我們希望可以重新來檢視很多預算的運用。","比如說過去馬政府時期，我們的外交預算當時有22個國家，我們的預算二百二十幾億，這個沒有包括機密預算，可是當時機密預算並不高，都是5億左右。到蔡政府2024年，我們的預算高達314億，這個還不包含機密外交的預算，我們只剩下12個國家，可是我們的預算越編越高，然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好！但是我們邦交國失去了，我們過去可以用觀察員的身分參與WHA，但近8年都沒有辦法，我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的！像今天的報告裡面，其實也差不多是投降了啦，就是說我們要用更務實的方式，你說有人幫我們講話，過去我們還實質參加，我們編的預算還更少。","為什麼我特別提到預算的部分？因為我們也很清楚地知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易，所以在經費預算上面，其實大概也都是儘量的給予支持，如果今天要用政黨惡鬥，或者要用政治的態度來干擾，我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處。部長怎麼看？"],["林部長佳龍：是。實質對人選，每個人都見仁見智，優秀的人才……"],["馬委員文君：部長，您怎麼看？"],["林部長佳龍：盧先生確實也很優秀，我意思是說，因為它有董事會的一個程序，董事會認為應該由董事長……"],["馬委員文君：過去有沒有？過去董事長有沒有親自去介紹、去說明？比如說黃玉霖被提名的時候，我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明？"],["林部長佳龍：那個時候，董事長提名應該都會跟董事會說明。"],["馬委員文君：他是土木工程的背景，是董事長親自去說明、介紹嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們執行長……"],["馬委員文君：董事長，是嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我的判斷是啦！因為……"],["馬委員文君：過去也都是嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：黃玉霖前執行長當過海基會主任秘書……"],["馬委員文君：過去也都是嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：他的行政經驗很豐富……"],["馬委員文君：海基會……"],["林部長佳龍：人選是見仁見智。"],["馬委員文君：部長，行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富。今天有一個背景不錯、沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人，如果讓我們感受你就是卡……"],["林部長佳龍：不是，是董事會的董事們希望能夠由董事長來說明。"],["馬委員文君：這樣子對未來外交業務上沒有很好的幫助，我今天特別再提出來。老實說，我們也希望……如果你在外交工作沒有辦法交出好成績，沒有辦法做得很好，還拼命花人民的納稅錢，還要在這裡搞東搞西，我們未來希望可以更嚴格地檢視外交工作。","現在這麼重要的駐美代表都發生這樣的問題，我們不知道他實際的情況是怎麼樣。可是我們現在發現兩個點，第一，他是一個資深的外交官，也當過政務次長，沒有理由不知道這些細節。有兩個理由，第一個，有人要搶位子，這個就做得很難看；第二個，他持續沿用過去的陋規，覺得沒有什麼。最讓我們覺得應該檢視的是外交部發言人，他是用恐嚇的方式，認為應該在內部舉發就好；就是因為內部官官相護，所以他才會爆出來。這是兩種不同的模式，第一個是陰謀論，第二個就是吹哨者，我們對吹哨者是用這樣的態度，所以外交部不斷地發生事情。","如果我們要用政治態度看待所有的外交業務，包括這樣的基金會，我們未來會更慎重地、更嚴謹地檢視，不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的民脂民膏。我們希望很多國家幫我們講話，我們送出了什麼？我們的護國神山台積電去設很多很重要的廠，其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力。這些在在都顯示我們一直犧牲我們的利益，浪費我們的金錢，可是沒有得到實質的幫助。像巴勒斯坦今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候，聯合國安理會超過9票，在有12票同意的情況之下仍然不能成案，很重要的因素就是美國投下反對票。我想請教部長，目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題？"],["林部長佳龍：聯合國跟周邊組織有它的……大家都知道，除了聯合國憲章之外，現實上受到中共很大的影響。當然……"],["馬委員文君：部長，我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國反對，今天為什麼美國反對？這裡面大部分安理會的成員國，包括聯合國大會，有143個國家其實是同意的，而且非常支持巴勒斯坦，可是他們還是遭到否決。今天我們中華民國會面臨……我們一直在講中共阻撓，任何國家都有自身的考量。我們應該怎麼樣一致對外，在拓展外交上，大家共同發揮我們的影響力，而不是對內？這是我今天特別要講的。部長有什麼看法？接下來推動外交或在業務上還有很多需要朝野持續合作，我很期待知道部長到底怎麼想。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["馬委員文君：剛剛我說的民主基金會，要怎麼樣解決這樣的問題？如果執行長一產生，他就可以馬上執行。這兩個部分部長簡單回答，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好，其實那一天第8屆第1次會議就有推舉韓院長做董事長，外界先前有一些猜測，其實並沒有卡誰。至於執行長，因為董事長提名後要董事會同意，董事會有同意權……"],["馬委員文君：你覺得他接下來會不會同意？"],["林部長佳龍：我們也尊重董事會當天的決定。"],["馬委員文君：部長，你覺得他接下來會不會同意？"],["林部長佳龍：這個還沒有進入實質。我覺得就是要溝通，讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選，就像行政部門提了人選，立法院也要經過一個程序。不能提名的人沒到，被提名的人也沒到，董事會覺得想瞭解更多，也許要更大的支持啊！但是沒有辦法對話。我作為一個代理的主席，我只是說好，把它擱置，交由下一次韓董事長主持的時候來提，然後董事們可以跟他瞭解這個人選。"],["馬委員文君：部長會不會協助？之前你也推薦過執行長，這個部分你看到現在推薦這樣的人選，你會不會認為他有什麼樣的瑕疵、他不適任或者他有什麼問題？"],["林部長佳龍：我尊重董事會的決定，我也希望程序能夠很順的進行。"],["馬委員文君：我請教的是部長的看法，您對這個人選的看法為何？你總是有看法吧？因為你現在是外交部長。"],["林部長佳龍：其實專業方面，在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定，但是他的外交政策是不是跟賴總統的方向一致……"],["馬委員文君：我請教的是部長的看法。"],["林部長佳龍：也許董事會有一些……包括委員也有這樣詢問。"],["馬委員文君：如果是這樣，有很多預算你根本就不能過。如果你要用這樣的看法……"],["林部長佳龍：我覺得這要把它分開……"],["馬委員文君：在中華民國裡面……"],["林部長佳龍：現在還在進行程序，把程序走好。"],["馬委員文君：我們是一個民主自由的國家……"],["林部長佳龍：至於人選是大家來看……"],["馬委員文君：你在這裡可以說臺獨，你也可以在這裡說統一……"],["林部長佳龍：尊重董事會。"],["馬委員文君：如果照我們憲法的規定，現在憲法的規定到底是什麼？大家都可以在這一塊土地上面暢所欲言，而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想、應該怎麼做、應該只可以講什麼樣的話。我再次提醒，如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有，如果你從小地方就要這樣卡，未來很多……尤其現在執政方、執政黨如果再這樣，一直都沒有能力拓展我們的外交，一直花錢，未來就會不好做。部長同意嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我覺得把程序走好，多溝通。"],["馬委員文君：部長同意嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我想人選的提名有他的道理，但是董事會有其職權，董事會如果……"],["馬委員文君：部長，你會推薦嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：不是我……"],["馬委員文君：你會推薦嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我不會推薦……"],["馬委員文君：不是，韓國瑜董事長已經推薦了，我說您會卡他嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：不會。"],["馬委員文君：不會？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：韓院長都沒有人卡他了，這是最大咖的。"],["馬委員文君：我希望是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：沒有什麼卡誰的問題，把程序走好。"],["馬委員文君：我希望是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：人選尊重董事會。"],["馬委員文君：我希望是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["馬委員文君：我希望是這樣。"],["林部長佳龍：好，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝馬委員。","接下來請沈伯洋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":44,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-30","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃國昌","羅智強"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00:00:53,811\n民主基金會很重要自成立以來發揮很好的惡鬼外交的效果而且跨黨派的參與跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩特別我們代理執行長我才聽了他完整的簡報我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果非常的感謝我們要繼續努力那有一些民主基金會的業務我待會請執行長\n\n3\n00:00:58,973 --> 00:01:20,103\n民主基金會每年在編預算的時候大概就會做一些初步的報告那我們現在比較希望知道既然部長覺得他很重要然後也做得很好然後他的在業務上的推動其實是要持續的那我想請教一下在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中部長提議\n\n4\n00:01:25,510 --> 00:01:48,250\n執行長的任用、聘用,他被擱置的原因是什麼?因為在第8屆第一次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長之間董事長他請假,主持立法院的會議,由我代理因為他推薦的人,他也沒有在場\n\n5\n00:01:49,071 --> 00:01:49,751\n農業中大家會不太認識他嗎?\n\n6\n00:02:05,885 --> 00:02:08,147\n很多人在說卡爐卡爐那我獨是誰,他們都想著另外的獨了。\n\n7\n00:02:27,688 --> 00:02:52,310\n成員這些董監事沒有去看過他的背景資料如果不知道的話在這裡我簡單再說一下因為之前黃玉琳執行長就如果你們對於之前執行的業務狀況非常肯定的話他是一個土木工程的背景過去也曾經在台中市政府交通部服務過可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的\n\n8\n00:02:55,470 --> 00:03:05,615\n現在盧業忠本身如果他做的是他本身就是國際關係的專業又是外交各方面這一方面的一個專業那他來擔任這樣的職務有什麼樣的問題嗎因為如果\n\n9\n00:03:12,778 --> 00:03:16,701\n這空窗期讓我們覺得他是變成政黨的惡鬥這樣是很不好的因為如果要預算可以通過從過去到現在成立經過了國民黨經過了民進黨執政其實都沒有人去干涉過多都希望他的惡鬼外交其實是可以順利的推動如果讓我們有這樣的感受我們希望可以重新來檢視很多的預算的運用比如說\n\n10\n00:03:41,937 --> 00:04:09,094\n過去馬政府時期我們的外交預算當時有22個國家我們的預算224億27億這個沒有包括精密預算可是當時的精密預算並不高都是5億左右到蔡政府2024年我們的預算高達314億這個還不包含精密外交的預算\n\n11\n00:04:10,489 --> 00:04:23,863\n我們只剩下12個國家可我們的預算越編越高然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好可我們邦交國失去了我們WHA連觀察員的身份過去有8年都可以參與現在都沒有辦法那我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的像今天的報告裡面\n\n12\n00:04:33,633 --> 00:04:40,676\n其實也差不多是投降了啦就是我們要用更務實的方式你說有人幫我們講話過去我們還實質參加我們編的預算還更少為什麼我特別提到預算的部分是因為我們也很清楚的知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易所以在經費預算上面其實大概也都是盡量的給予支持\n\n13\n00:04:58,402 --> 00:05:10,814\n可是如果今天要用政黨惡鬥或者要用政治的這樣的一個態度來干擾我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處部長怎麼看是實質的對人選每個人都見仁見智優秀的人才部長怎麼看\n\n14\n00:05:17,401 --> 00:05:20,402\n過去董事長有沒有都親自去介紹去說明去講比如說黃玉玲被提名的時候我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明\n\n15\n00:05:40,302 --> 00:05:45,645\n因為那個時候,董事長應該提名,應該都會跟董事會說明他是土木工程的背景,是董事長親自去說明嗎?去介紹嗎?董事長,是嗎?我的判斷是啦,因為其實黃毓林執行長當過海基會主任秘書\n\n16\n00:05:59,292 --> 00:06:01,493\n行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富今天如果有一個背景不錯沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人如果讓我們的感受你就是卡這樣子對我們未來在外交業務上面\n\n17\n00:06:18,484 --> 00:06:22,287\n沒有很好的一個幫助我今天特別再提出來老實說我們也是希望你在外交工作如果你沒有辦法交出好成績沒有辦法做得很好還拼命的花人民的納稅錢還要在這裡搞東搞西那我們未來希望可以用更嚴格的來檢視我們的外交工作包括你現在這麼重要的一個駐美的一個代表都發生這樣的問題我們不知道他的實際情況是怎麼樣\n\n18\n00:06:48,564 --> 00:07:11,961\n可是我們現在發現兩個點第一他是一個資深的外交官他也當過政務次長沒有理由他不知道這些細節可是兩個理由第一個就是有人要搶位子這個就做得很難看第二個就是他過去的漏歸持續沿用因為覺得沒有什麼\n\n19\n00:07:13,069 --> 00:07:33,816\n可是最要讓我們覺得應該要檢視的是我們的外交部的發言人他是用恐嚇的方式說我們應該在內部來做舉發就好就是因為內部關關相護啊所以他才會爆出來這是兩種不同的模式一個是陰謀論第二個\n\n20\n00:07:35,496 --> 00:07:53,807\n就是吹哨者可是我們對於吹哨者是用這樣的態度所以外交部不斷的發生事情如果我們要用政治的態度來看待我們所有的外交的業務包括像這樣的一個基金會我們未來會更慎重的會更嚴謹的來檢視不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的名指名高包括我們說\n\n21\n00:08:01,531 --> 00:08:29,233\n希望很多國家來幫我們講話我們送出了什麼我們的護國神山台積電他很重要的很多的設廠其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力這些債債都顯示我們一直在犧牲我們的利益在浪費我們的金錢可是我們沒有得到實質的一些幫助像巴基斯坦\n\n22\n00:08:30,947 --> 00:08:56,812\n他們這一次要加入聯合國的時候他們的情況巴勒斯坦不好意思巴勒斯坦這一次今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候在聯合國安理會他超過9票有12票的同意的情況之下仍然不能成案很重要的因素就是美國投下了反對票那我想請教我們目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題\n\n23\n00:09:00,811 --> 00:09:04,595\n市長,我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國的反對,今天為什麼美國反對\n\n24\n00:09:21,971 --> 00:09:27,673\n這裏面所有大部分的安理會的成員國或者包括聯合國大會有143個國家其實是同意的而且是非常支持巴勒斯坦可是他們還是遭到否決今天我們中華民國會面臨我們一直在講中共阻撓中共阻撓所有任何國家都有他自身的考量所以我們應該要怎麼樣\n\n25\n00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:45,300\n：馬文君\n\n26\n00:10:20,577 --> 00:10:36,210\n其實那天第8屆第一次會就有推舉韓院長做董事長所以外界先前有一些猜測其實並沒有去卡誰那至於說執行長因為要董事長提名是要董事會同意那董事會有同意權\n\n27\n00:10:37,331 --> 00:10:51,889\n這個我們也尊重董事會當天的決定這個還沒有進入實質啦我是覺得就是要去溝通嘛讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選就像說如果我們行政部門提了這個人選\n\n28\n00:10:53,150 --> 00:11:20,408\n來立法院也是要經過立法院大家有一個程序你不能這個提的人也沒到被提的人也沒到董事會大家覺得說我想了解更多也許要更大的支持但是沒有辦法對話就是我做一個代理的主席我只是說好把他擱置交由下一次函董事長做主持的時候他來提然後董事們可以跟他大家來\n\n29\n00:11:21,289 --> 00:11:23,611\n我尊重董事會的決定我請教的是部長的看法\n\n30\n00:11:43,328 --> 00:12:07,036\n您的看法對這一個人選你總是有看法吧其實專業在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定但繼續說他的外交政策的方向是不是跟賴總統方向一致這個也許董事會有一些包括委員也有在詢問如果是這樣那有很多的預算你根本就不能過\n\n31\n00:12:08,857 --> 00:12:14,581\n如果您要用這樣的看法因為現在在中華民國裡面我們是一個民主自由的國家您在這裡可以擺動您在這裡也可以說創意如果叫我們的憲法來規定您現在憲法來規定到底是什麼這是大家都可以在這一塊土地上面\n\n32\n00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:31,975\n暢所欲言而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想應該怎麼做你應該只可以講什麼樣的話如果這樣對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有我再次提醒如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有如果你從小地方要這樣卡\n\n33\n00:12:44,571 --> 00:13:06,432\n那未來在我們很多尤其是我們現在執政方執政黨如果在這樣子有很多一直都沒有能力去拓展我們的外交然後一直花錢在未來就會不好做了部長同意嗎我覺得把程序做好多溝通那人選我想提名有他的道理但是董事會有他的職權那經過董事會部長你會推薦嗎\n\n34\n00:13:11,381 --> 00:13:12,722\n謝謝馬委員下面我們請沈波洋委員來質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n589\t2310\t部長早部長早部長我想請教一下今天因為我們幾個議題那我想首先請教民主基金會在您看來重不重要然後他在他成立以後他的成效如何\n30404\t53811\t民主基金會很重要自成立以來發揮很好的惡鬼外交的效果而且跨黨派的參與跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩特別我們代理執行長我才聽了他完整的簡報我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果非常的感謝我們要繼續努力那有一些民主基金會的業務我待會請執行長\n58973\t80103\t民主基金會每年在編預算的時候大概就會做一些初步的報告那我們現在比較希望知道既然部長覺得他很重要然後也做得很好然後他的在業務上的推動其實是要持續的那我想請教一下在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中部長提議\n85510\t108250\t執行長的任用、聘用,他被擱置的原因是什麼?因為在第8屆第一次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長之間董事長他請假,主持立法院的會議,由我代理因為他推薦的人,他也沒有在場\n109071\t109751\t農業中大家會不太認識他嗎?\n125885\t128147\t很多人在說卡爐卡爐那我獨是誰,他們都想著另外的獨了。\n147688\t172310\t成員這些董監事沒有去看過他的背景資料如果不知道的話在這裡我簡單再說一下因為之前黃玉琳執行長就如果你們對於之前執行的業務狀況非常肯定的話他是一個土木工程的背景過去也曾經在台中市政府交通部服務過可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的\n175470\t185615\t現在盧業忠本身如果他做的是他本身就是國際關係的專業又是外交各方面這一方面的一個專業那他來擔任這樣的職務有什麼樣的問題嗎因為如果\n192778\t196701\t這空窗期讓我們覺得他是變成政黨的惡鬥這樣是很不好的因為如果要預算可以通過從過去到現在成立經過了國民黨經過了民進黨執政其實都沒有人去干涉過多都希望他的惡鬼外交其實是可以順利的推動如果讓我們有這樣的感受我們希望可以重新來檢視很多的預算的運用比如說\n221937\t249094\t過去馬政府時期我們的外交預算當時有22個國家我們的預算224億27億這個沒有包括精密預算可是當時的精密預算並不高都是5億左右到蔡政府2024年我們的預算高達314億這個還不包含精密外交的預算\n250489\t263863\t我們只剩下12個國家可我們的預算越編越高然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好可我們邦交國失去了我們WHA連觀察員的身份過去有8年都可以參與現在都沒有辦法那我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的像今天的報告裡面\n273633\t280676\t其實也差不多是投降了啦就是我們要用更務實的方式你說有人幫我們講話過去我們還實質參加我們編的預算還更少為什麼我特別提到預算的部分是因為我們也很清楚的知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易所以在經費預算上面其實大概也都是盡量的給予支持\n298402\t310814\t可是如果今天要用政黨惡鬥或者要用政治的這樣的一個態度來干擾我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處 部長怎麼看是 實質的對人選每個人都見仁見智 優秀的人才部長怎麼看\n317401\t320402\t過去董事長有沒有都親自去介紹去說明去講比如說黃玉玲被提名的時候我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明\n340302\t345645\t因為那個時候,董事長應該提名,應該都會跟董事會說明他是土木工程的背景,是董事長親自去說明嗎?去介紹嗎?董事長,是嗎?我的判斷是啦,因為其實黃毓林執行長當過海基會主任秘書\n359292\t361493\t行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富今天如果有一個背景不錯沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人如果讓我們的感受你就是卡這樣子對我們未來在外交業務上面\n378484\t382287\t沒有很好的一個幫助我今天特別再提出來老實說我們也是希望你在外交工作如果你沒有辦法交出好成績沒有辦法做得很好還拼命的花人民的納稅錢還要在這裡搞東搞西那我們未來希望可以用更嚴格的來檢視我們的外交工作包括你現在這麼重要的一個駐美的一個代表都發生這樣的問題我們不知道他的實際情況是怎麼樣\n408564\t431961\t可是我們現在發現兩個點第一他是一個資深的外交官他也當過政務次長沒有理由他不知道這些細節可是兩個理由第一個就是有人要搶位子這個就做得很難看第二個就是他過去的漏歸持續沿用因為覺得沒有什麼\n433069\t453816\t可是最要讓我們覺得應該要檢視的是我們的外交部的發言人他是用恐嚇的方式說我們應該在內部來做舉發就好就是因為內部關關相護啊所以他才會爆出來這是兩種不同的模式一個是陰謀論第二個\n455496\t473807\t就是吹哨者可是我們對於吹哨者是用這樣的態度所以外交部不斷的發生事情如果我們要用政治的態度來看待我們所有的外交的業務包括像這樣的一個基金會我們未來會更慎重的會更嚴謹的來檢視不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的名指名高包括我們說\n481531\t509233\t希望很多國家來幫我們講話我們送出了什麼我們的護國神山台積電他很重要的很多的設廠其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力這些債債都顯示我們一直在犧牲我們的利益在浪費我們的金錢可是我們沒有得到實質的一些幫助像巴基斯坦\n510947\t536812\t他們這一次要加入聯合國的時候他們的情況巴勒斯坦不好意思巴勒斯坦這一次今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候在聯合國安理會他超過9票有12票的同意的情況之下仍然不能成案很重要的因素就是美國投下了反對票那我想請教我們目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題\n540811\t544595\t市長,我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國的反對,今天為什麼美國反對\n561971\t567673\t這裏面所有大部分的安理會的成員國或者包括聯合國大會有143個國家其實是同意的而且是非常支持巴勒斯坦可是他們還是遭到否決今天我們中華民國會面臨我們一直在講中共阻撓中共阻撓所有任何國家都有他自身的考量所以我們應該要怎麼樣\n585180\t585300\t：馬文君\n620577\t636210\t其實那天第8屆第一次會就有推舉韓院長做董事長所以外界先前有一些猜測其實並沒有去卡誰那至於說執行長因為要董事長提名是要董事會同意那董事會有同意權\n637331\t651889\t這個我們也尊重董事會當天的決定這個還沒有進入實質啦我是覺得就是要去溝通嘛讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選就像說如果我們行政部門提了這個人選\n653150\t680408\t來立法院也是要經過立法院大家有一個程序你不能這個提的人也沒到被提的人也沒到董事會大家覺得說我想了解更多也許要更大的支持但是沒有辦法對話就是我做一個代理的主席我只是說好把他擱置交由下一次函董事長做主持的時候他來提然後董事們可以跟他大家來\n681289\t683611\t我尊重董事會的決定我請教的是部長的看法\n703328\t727036\t您的看法對這一個人選你總是有看法吧其實專業在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定但繼續說他的外交政策的方向是不是跟賴總統方向一致這個也許董事會有一些包括委員也有在詢問如果是這樣那有很多的預算你根本就不能過\n728857\t734581\t如果您要用這樣的看法因為現在在中華民國裡面我們是一個民主自由的國家您在這裡可以擺動您在這裡也可以說創意如果叫我們的憲法來規定您現在憲法來規定到底是什麼這是大家都可以在這一塊土地上面\n747870\t751975\t暢所欲言而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想應該怎麼做你應該只可以講什麼樣的話如果這樣對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有我再次提醒如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有如果你從小地方要這樣卡\n764571\t786432\t那未來在我們很多尤其是我們現在執政方執政黨如果在這樣子有很多一直都沒有能力去拓展我們的外交然後一直花錢在未來就會不好做了部長同意嗎我覺得把程序做好多溝通那人選我想提名有他的道理但是董事會有他的職權那經過董事會部長你會推薦嗎\n791381\t792722\t謝謝馬委員下面我們請沈波洋委員來質詢\n","txt":"部長早部長早部長我想請教一下今天因為我們幾個議題那我想首先請教民主基金會在您看來重不重要然後他在他成立以後他的成效如何\n民主基金會很重要自成立以來發揮很好的惡鬼外交的效果而且跨黨派的參與跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩特別我們代理執行長我才聽了他完整的簡報我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果非常的感謝我們要繼續努力那有一些民主基金會的業務我待會請執行長\n民主基金會每年在編預算的時候大概就會做一些初步的報告那我們現在比較希望知道既然部長覺得他很重要然後也做得很好然後他的在業務上的推動其實是要持續的那我想請教一下在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中部長提議\n執行長的任用、聘用,他被擱置的原因是什麼?因為在第8屆第一次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長之間董事長他請假,主持立法院的會議,由我代理因為他推薦的人,他也沒有在場\n農業中大家會不太認識他嗎?\n很多人在說卡爐卡爐那我獨是誰,他們都想著另外的獨了。\n成員這些董監事沒有去看過他的背景資料如果不知道的話在這裡我簡單再說一下因為之前黃玉琳執行長就如果你們對於之前執行的業務狀況非常肯定的話他是一個土木工程的背景過去也曾經在台中市政府交通部服務過可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的\n現在盧業忠本身如果他做的是他本身就是國際關係的專業又是外交各方面這一方面的一個專業那他來擔任這樣的職務有什麼樣的問題嗎因為如果\n這空窗期讓我們覺得他是變成政黨的惡鬥這樣是很不好的因為如果要預算可以通過從過去到現在成立經過了國民黨經過了民進黨執政其實都沒有人去干涉過多都希望他的惡鬼外交其實是可以順利的推動如果讓我們有這樣的感受我們希望可以重新來檢視很多的預算的運用比如說\n過去馬政府時期我們的外交預算當時有22個國家我們的預算224億27億這個沒有包括精密預算可是當時的精密預算並不高都是5億左右到蔡政府2024年我們的預算高達314億這個還不包含精密外交的預算\n我們只剩下12個國家可我們的預算越編越高然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好可我們邦交國失去了我們WHA連觀察員的身份過去有8年都可以參與現在都沒有辦法那我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的像今天的報告裡面\n其實也差不多是投降了啦就是我們要用更務實的方式你說有人幫我們講話過去我們還實質參加我們編的預算還更少為什麼我特別提到預算的部分是因為我們也很清楚的知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易所以在經費預算上面其實大概也都是盡量的給予支持\n可是如果今天要用政黨惡鬥或者要用政治的這樣的一個態度來干擾我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處 部長怎麼看是 實質的對人選每個人都見仁見智 優秀的人才部長怎麼看\n過去董事長有沒有都親自去介紹去說明去講比如說黃玉玲被提名的時候我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明\n因為那個時候,董事長應該提名,應該都會跟董事會說明他是土木工程的背景,是董事長親自去說明嗎?去介紹嗎?董事長,是嗎?我的判斷是啦,因為其實黃毓林執行長當過海基會主任秘書\n行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富今天如果有一個背景不錯沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人如果讓我們的感受你就是卡這樣子對我們未來在外交業務上面\n沒有很好的一個幫助我今天特別再提出來老實說我們也是希望你在外交工作如果你沒有辦法交出好成績沒有辦法做得很好還拼命的花人民的納稅錢還要在這裡搞東搞西那我們未來希望可以用更嚴格的來檢視我們的外交工作包括你現在這麼重要的一個駐美的一個代表都發生這樣的問題我們不知道他的實際情況是怎麼樣\n可是我們現在發現兩個點第一他是一個資深的外交官他也當過政務次長沒有理由他不知道這些細節可是兩個理由第一個就是有人要搶位子這個就做得很難看第二個就是他過去的漏歸持續沿用因為覺得沒有什麼\n可是最要讓我們覺得應該要檢視的是我們的外交部的發言人他是用恐嚇的方式說我們應該在內部來做舉發就好就是因為內部關關相護啊所以他才會爆出來這是兩種不同的模式一個是陰謀論第二個\n就是吹哨者可是我們對於吹哨者是用這樣的態度所以外交部不斷的發生事情如果我們要用政治的態度來看待我們所有的外交的業務包括像這樣的一個基金會我們未來會更慎重的會更嚴謹的來檢視不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的名指名高包括我們說\n希望很多國家來幫我們講話我們送出了什麼我們的護國神山台積電他很重要的很多的設廠其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力這些債債都顯示我們一直在犧牲我們的利益在浪費我們的金錢可是我們沒有得到實質的一些幫助像巴基斯坦\n他們這一次要加入聯合國的時候他們的情況巴勒斯坦不好意思巴勒斯坦這一次今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候在聯合國安理會他超過9票有12票的同意的情況之下仍然不能成案很重要的因素就是美國投下了反對票那我想請教我們目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題\n市長,我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國的反對,今天為什麼美國反對\n這裏面所有大部分的安理會的成員國或者包括聯合國大會有143個國家其實是同意的而且是非常支持巴勒斯坦可是他們還是遭到否決今天我們中華民國會面臨我們一直在講中共阻撓中共阻撓所有任何國家都有他自身的考量所以我們應該要怎麼樣\n：馬文君\n其實那天第8屆第一次會就有推舉韓院長做董事長所以外界先前有一些猜測其實並沒有去卡誰那至於說執行長因為要董事長提名是要董事會同意那董事會有同意權\n這個我們也尊重董事會當天的決定這個還沒有進入實質啦我是覺得就是要去溝通嘛讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選就像說如果我們行政部門提了這個人選\n來立法院也是要經過立法院大家有一個程序你不能這個提的人也沒到被提的人也沒到董事會大家覺得說我想了解更多也許要更大的支持但是沒有辦法對話就是我做一個代理的主席我只是說好把他擱置交由下一次函董事長做主持的時候他來提然後董事們可以跟他大家來\n我尊重董事會的決定我請教的是部長的看法\n您的看法對這一個人選你總是有看法吧其實專業在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定但繼續說他的外交政策的方向是不是跟賴總統方向一致這個也許董事會有一些包括委員也有在詢問如果是這樣那有很多的預算你根本就不能過\n如果您要用這樣的看法因為現在在中華民國裡面我們是一個民主自由的國家您在這裡可以擺動您在這裡也可以說創意如果叫我們的憲法來規定您現在憲法來規定到底是什麼這是大家都可以在這一塊土地上面\n暢所欲言而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想應該怎麼做你應該只可以講什麼樣的話如果這樣對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有我再次提醒如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有如果你從小地方要這樣卡\n那未來在我們很多尤其是我們現在執政方執政黨如果在這樣子有很多一直都沒有能力去拓展我們的外交然後一直花錢在未來就會不好做了部長同意嗎我覺得把程序做好多溝通那人選我想提名有他的道理但是董事會有他的職權那經過董事會部長你會推薦嗎\n謝謝馬委員下面我們請沈波洋委員來質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.589 --> 00:02.310\n部長早部長早部長我想請教一下今天因為我們幾個議題那我想首先請教民主基金會在您看來重不重要然後他在他成立以後他的成效如何\n\n00:30.404 --> 00:53.811\n民主基金會很重要自成立以來發揮很好的惡鬼外交的效果而且跨黨派的參與跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩特別我們代理執行長我才聽了他完整的簡報我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果非常的感謝我們要繼續努力那有一些民主基金會的業務我待會請執行長\n\n00:58.973 --> 01:20.103\n民主基金會每年在編預算的時候大概就會做一些初步的報告那我們現在比較希望知道既然部長覺得他很重要然後也做得很好然後他的在業務上的推動其實是要持續的那我想請教一下在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中部長提議\n\n01:25.510 --> 01:48.250\n執行長的任用、聘用,他被擱置的原因是什麼?因為在第8屆第一次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長之間董事長他請假,主持立法院的會議,由我代理因為他推薦的人,他也沒有在場\n\n01:49.071 --> 01:49.751\n農業中大家會不太認識他嗎?\n\n02:05.885 --> 02:08.147\n很多人在說卡爐卡爐那我獨是誰,他們都想著另外的獨了。\n\n02:27.688 --> 02:52.310\n成員這些董監事沒有去看過他的背景資料如果不知道的話在這裡我簡單再說一下因為之前黃玉琳執行長就如果你們對於之前執行的業務狀況非常肯定的話他是一個土木工程的背景過去也曾經在台中市政府交通部服務過可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的\n\n02:55.470 --> 03:05.615\n現在盧業忠本身如果他做的是他本身就是國際關係的專業又是外交各方面這一方面的一個專業那他來擔任這樣的職務有什麼樣的問題嗎因為如果\n\n03:12.778 --> 03:16.701\n這空窗期讓我們覺得他是變成政黨的惡鬥這樣是很不好的因為如果要預算可以通過從過去到現在成立經過了國民黨經過了民進黨執政其實都沒有人去干涉過多都希望他的惡鬼外交其實是可以順利的推動如果讓我們有這樣的感受我們希望可以重新來檢視很多的預算的運用比如說\n\n03:41.937 --> 04:09.094\n過去馬政府時期我們的外交預算當時有22個國家我們的預算224億27億這個沒有包括精密預算可是當時的精密預算並不高都是5億左右到蔡政府2024年我們的預算高達314億這個還不包含精密外交的預算\n\n04:10.489 --> 04:23.863\n我們只剩下12個國家可我們的預算越編越高然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好可我們邦交國失去了我們WHA連觀察員的身份過去有8年都可以參與現在都沒有辦法那我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的像今天的報告裡面\n\n04:33.633 --> 04:40.676\n其實也差不多是投降了啦就是我們要用更務實的方式你說有人幫我們講話過去我們還實質參加我們編的預算還更少為什麼我特別提到預算的部分是因為我們也很清楚的知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易所以在經費預算上面其實大概也都是盡量的給予支持\n\n04:58.402 --> 05:10.814\n可是如果今天要用政黨惡鬥或者要用政治的這樣的一個態度來干擾我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處部長怎麼看是實質的對人選每個人都見仁見智優秀的人才部長怎麼看\n\n05:17.401 --> 05:20.402\n過去董事長有沒有都親自去介紹去說明去講比如說黃玉玲被提名的時候我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明\n\n05:40.302 --> 05:45.645\n因為那個時候,董事長應該提名,應該都會跟董事會說明他是土木工程的背景,是董事長親自去說明嗎?去介紹嗎?董事長,是嗎?我的判斷是啦,因為其實黃毓林執行長當過海基會主任秘書\n\n05:59.292 --> 06:01.493\n行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富今天如果有一個背景不錯沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人如果讓我們的感受你就是卡這樣子對我們未來在外交業務上面\n\n06:18.484 --> 06:22.287\n沒有很好的一個幫助我今天特別再提出來老實說我們也是希望你在外交工作如果你沒有辦法交出好成績沒有辦法做得很好還拼命的花人民的納稅錢還要在這裡搞東搞西那我們未來希望可以用更嚴格的來檢視我們的外交工作包括你現在這麼重要的一個駐美的一個代表都發生這樣的問題我們不知道他的實際情況是怎麼樣\n\n06:48.564 --> 07:11.961\n可是我們現在發現兩個點第一他是一個資深的外交官他也當過政務次長沒有理由他不知道這些細節可是兩個理由第一個就是有人要搶位子這個就做得很難看第二個就是他過去的漏歸持續沿用因為覺得沒有什麼\n\n07:13.069 --> 07:33.816\n可是最要讓我們覺得應該要檢視的是我們的外交部的發言人他是用恐嚇的方式說我們應該在內部來做舉發就好就是因為內部關關相護啊所以他才會爆出來這是兩種不同的模式一個是陰謀論第二個\n\n07:35.496 --> 07:53.807\n就是吹哨者可是我們對於吹哨者是用這樣的態度所以外交部不斷的發生事情如果我們要用政治的態度來看待我們所有的外交的業務包括像這樣的一個基金會我們未來會更慎重的會更嚴謹的來檢視不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的名指名高包括我們說\n\n08:01.531 --> 08:29.233\n希望很多國家來幫我們講話我們送出了什麼我們的護國神山台積電他很重要的很多的設廠其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力這些債債都顯示我們一直在犧牲我們的利益在浪費我們的金錢可是我們沒有得到實質的一些幫助像巴基斯坦\n\n08:30.947 --> 08:56.812\n他們這一次要加入聯合國的時候他們的情況巴勒斯坦不好意思巴勒斯坦這一次今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候在聯合國安理會他超過9票有12票的同意的情況之下仍然不能成案很重要的因素就是美國投下了反對票那我想請教我們目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題\n\n09:00.811 --> 09:04.595\n市長,我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國的反對,今天為什麼美國反對\n\n09:21.971 --> 09:27.673\n這裏面所有大部分的安理會的成員國或者包括聯合國大會有143個國家其實是同意的而且是非常支持巴勒斯坦可是他們還是遭到否決今天我們中華民國會面臨我們一直在講中共阻撓中共阻撓所有任何國家都有他自身的考量所以我們應該要怎麼樣\n\n09:45.180 --> 09:45.300\n：馬文君\n\n10:20.577 --> 10:36.210\n其實那天第8屆第一次會就有推舉韓院長做董事長所以外界先前有一些猜測其實並沒有去卡誰那至於說執行長因為要董事長提名是要董事會同意那董事會有同意權\n\n10:37.331 --> 10:51.889\n這個我們也尊重董事會當天的決定這個還沒有進入實質啦我是覺得就是要去溝通嘛讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選就像說如果我們行政部門提了這個人選\n\n10:53.150 --> 11:20.408\n來立法院也是要經過立法院大家有一個程序你不能這個提的人也沒到被提的人也沒到董事會大家覺得說我想了解更多也許要更大的支持但是沒有辦法對話就是我做一個代理的主席我只是說好把他擱置交由下一次函董事長做主持的時候他來提然後董事們可以跟他大家來\n\n11:21.289 --> 11:23.611\n我尊重董事會的決定我請教的是部長的看法\n\n11:43.328 --> 12:07.036\n您的看法對這一個人選你總是有看法吧其實專業在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定但繼續說他的外交政策的方向是不是跟賴總統方向一致這個也許董事會有一些包括委員也有在詢問如果是這樣那有很多的預算你根本就不能過\n\n12:08.857 --> 12:14.581\n如果您要用這樣的看法因為現在在中華民國裡面我們是一個民主自由的國家您在這裡可以擺動您在這裡也可以說創意如果叫我們的憲法來規定您現在憲法來規定到底是什麼這是大家都可以在這一塊土地上面\n\n12:27.870 --> 12:31.975\n暢所欲言而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想應該怎麼做你應該只可以講什麼樣的話如果這樣對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有我再次提醒如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有如果你從小地方要這樣卡\n\n12:44.571 --> 13:06.432\n那未來在我們很多尤其是我們現在執政方執政黨如果在這樣子有很多一直都沒有能力去拓展我們的外交然後一直花錢在未來就會不好做了部長同意嗎我覺得把程序做好多溝通那人選我想提名有他的道理但是董事會有他的職權那經過董事會部長你會推薦嗎\n\n13:11.381 --> 13:12.722\n謝謝馬委員下面我們請沈波洋委員來質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.589,"end":2.31,"text":"部長早部長早部長我想請教一下今天因為我們幾個議題那我想首先請教民主基金會在您看來重不重要然後他在他成立以後他的成效如何"},{"start":30.404,"end":53.811,"text":"民主基金會很重要自成立以來發揮很好的惡鬼外交的效果而且跨黨派的參與跟國際的交流合作成果豐碩特別我們代理執行長我才聽了他完整的簡報我覺得立法院支持的預算能夠發揮這麼大的效果非常的感謝我們要繼續努力那有一些民主基金會的業務我待會請執行長"},{"start":58.973,"end":80.103,"text":"民主基金會每年在編預算的時候大概就會做一些初步的報告那我們現在比較希望知道既然部長覺得他很重要然後也做得很好然後他的在業務上的推動其實是要持續的那我想請教一下在我們基金會董事會推舉執行長的議程當中部長提議"},{"start":85.51,"end":108.25,"text":"執行長的任用、聘用,他被擱置的原因是什麼?因為在第8屆第一次董事會產生了董事長跟副董事長之間董事長他請假,主持立法院的會議,由我代理因為他推薦的人,他也沒有在場"},{"start":109.071,"end":109.751,"text":"農業中大家會不太認識他嗎?"},{"start":125.885,"end":128.147,"text":"很多人在說卡爐卡爐那我獨是誰,他們都想著另外的獨了。"},{"start":147.688,"end":172.31,"text":"成員這些董監事沒有去看過他的背景資料如果不知道的話在這裡我簡單再說一下因為之前黃玉琳執行長就如果你們對於之前執行的業務狀況非常肯定的話他是一個土木工程的背景過去也曾經在台中市政府交通部服務過可是他在基金會的時候也是受到肯定的"},{"start":175.47,"end":185.615,"text":"現在盧業忠本身如果他做的是他本身就是國際關係的專業又是外交各方面這一方面的一個專業那他來擔任這樣的職務有什麼樣的問題嗎因為如果"},{"start":192.778,"end":196.701,"text":"這空窗期讓我們覺得他是變成政黨的惡鬥這樣是很不好的因為如果要預算可以通過從過去到現在成立經過了國民黨經過了民進黨執政其實都沒有人去干涉過多都希望他的惡鬼外交其實是可以順利的推動如果讓我們有這樣的感受我們希望可以重新來檢視很多的預算的運用比如說"},{"start":221.937,"end":249.094,"text":"過去馬政府時期我們的外交預算當時有22個國家我們的預算224億27億這個沒有包括精密預算可是當時的精密預算並不高都是5億左右到蔡政府2024年我們的預算高達314億這個還不包含精密外交的預算"},{"start":250.489,"end":263.863,"text":"我們只剩下12個國家可我們的預算越編越高然後一直跟國人說我們做得非常好可我們邦交國失去了我們WHA連觀察員的身份過去有8年都可以參與現在都沒有辦法那我們所有的國際組織沒有一個可以參加的像今天的報告裡面"},{"start":273.633,"end":280.676,"text":"其實也差不多是投降了啦就是我們要用更務實的方式你說有人幫我們講話過去我們還實質參加我們編的預算還更少為什麼我特別提到預算的部分是因為我們也很清楚的知道我們的外交工作並不是那麼容易所以在經費預算上面其實大概也都是盡量的給予支持"},{"start":298.402,"end":310.814,"text":"可是如果今天要用政黨惡鬥或者要用政治的這樣的一個態度來干擾我相信這樣對我們的外交工作並沒有好處 部長怎麼看是 實質的對人選每個人都見仁見智 優秀的人才部長怎麼看"},{"start":317.401,"end":320.402,"text":"過去董事長有沒有都親自去介紹去說明去講比如說黃玉玲被提名的時候我們的董事長有沒有去那裡說明"},{"start":340.302,"end":345.645,"text":"因為那個時候,董事長應該提名,應該都會跟董事會說明他是土木工程的背景,是董事長親自去說明嗎?去介紹嗎?董事長,是嗎?我的判斷是啦,因為其實黃毓林執行長當過海基會主任秘書"},{"start":359.292,"end":361.493,"text":"行政經驗豐富不代表他的外交經驗豐富今天如果有一個背景不錯沒有什麼特別瑕疵的人如果讓我們的感受你就是卡這樣子對我們未來在外交業務上面"},{"start":378.484,"end":382.287,"text":"沒有很好的一個幫助我今天特別再提出來老實說我們也是希望你在外交工作如果你沒有辦法交出好成績沒有辦法做得很好還拼命的花人民的納稅錢還要在這裡搞東搞西那我們未來希望可以用更嚴格的來檢視我們的外交工作包括你現在這麼重要的一個駐美的一個代表都發生這樣的問題我們不知道他的實際情況是怎麼樣"},{"start":408.564,"end":431.961,"text":"可是我們現在發現兩個點第一他是一個資深的外交官他也當過政務次長沒有理由他不知道這些細節可是兩個理由第一個就是有人要搶位子這個就做得很難看第二個就是他過去的漏歸持續沿用因為覺得沒有什麼"},{"start":433.069,"end":453.816,"text":"可是最要讓我們覺得應該要檢視的是我們的外交部的發言人他是用恐嚇的方式說我們應該在內部來做舉發就好就是因為內部關關相護啊所以他才會爆出來這是兩種不同的模式一個是陰謀論第二個"},{"start":455.496,"end":473.807,"text":"就是吹哨者可是我們對於吹哨者是用這樣的態度所以外交部不斷的發生事情如果我們要用政治的態度來看待我們所有的外交的業務包括像這樣的一個基金會我們未來會更慎重的會更嚴謹的來檢視不可以讓你們一直浪費我們的名指名高包括我們說"},{"start":481.531,"end":509.233,"text":"希望很多國家來幫我們講話我們送出了什麼我們的護國神山台積電他很重要的很多的設廠其實政府在後面發揮了很大的影響力這些債債都顯示我們一直在犧牲我們的利益在浪費我們的金錢可是我們沒有得到實質的一些幫助像巴基斯坦"},{"start":510.947,"end":536.812,"text":"他們這一次要加入聯合國的時候他們的情況巴勒斯坦不好意思巴勒斯坦這一次今年4月份要加入聯合國的時候在聯合國安理會他超過9票有12票的同意的情況之下仍然不能成案很重要的因素就是美國投下了反對票那我想請教我們目前中華民國是不是也面臨這樣的問題"},{"start":540.811,"end":544.595,"text":"市長,我現在說的是巴勒斯坦也受到美國的反對,今天為什麼美國反對"},{"start":561.971,"end":567.673,"text":"這裏面所有大部分的安理會的成員國或者包括聯合國大會有143個國家其實是同意的而且是非常支持巴勒斯坦可是他們還是遭到否決今天我們中華民國會面臨我們一直在講中共阻撓中共阻撓所有任何國家都有他自身的考量所以我們應該要怎麼樣"},{"start":585.18,"end":585.3,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":620.577,"end":636.21,"text":"其實那天第8屆第一次會就有推舉韓院長做董事長所以外界先前有一些猜測其實並沒有去卡誰那至於說執行長因為要董事長提名是要董事會同意那董事會有同意權"},{"start":637.331,"end":651.889,"text":"這個我們也尊重董事會當天的決定這個還沒有進入實質啦我是覺得就是要去溝通嘛讓董事們能夠支持董事長提的人選就像說如果我們行政部門提了這個人選"},{"start":653.15,"end":680.408,"text":"來立法院也是要經過立法院大家有一個程序你不能這個提的人也沒到被提的人也沒到董事會大家覺得說我想了解更多也許要更大的支持但是沒有辦法對話就是我做一個代理的主席我只是說好把他擱置交由下一次函董事長做主持的時候他來提然後董事們可以跟他大家來"},{"start":681.289,"end":683.611,"text":"我尊重董事會的決定我請教的是部長的看法"},{"start":703.328,"end":727.036,"text":"您的看法對這一個人選你總是有看法吧其實專業在我們政治學界都有一定的肯定但繼續說他的外交政策的方向是不是跟賴總統方向一致這個也許董事會有一些包括委員也有在詢問如果是這樣那有很多的預算你根本就不能過"},{"start":728.857,"end":734.581,"text":"如果您要用這樣的看法因為現在在中華民國裡面我們是一個民主自由的國家您在這裡可以擺動您在這裡也可以說創意如果叫我們的憲法來規定您現在憲法來規定到底是什麼這是大家都可以在這一塊土地上面"},{"start":747.87,"end":751.975,"text":"暢所欲言而不是誰可以影響人家應該怎麼想應該怎麼做你應該只可以講什麼樣的話如果這樣對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有我再次提醒如果這樣做對我們的外交一點幫助都沒有如果你從小地方要這樣卡"},{"start":764.571,"end":786.432,"text":"那未來在我們很多尤其是我們現在執政方執政黨如果在這樣子有很多一直都沒有能力去拓展我們的外交然後一直花錢在未來就會不好做了部長同意嗎我覺得把程序做好多溝通那人選我想提名有他的道理但是董事會有他的職權那經過董事會部長你會推薦嗎"},{"start":791.381,"end":792.722,"text":"謝謝馬委員下面我們請沈波洋委員來質詢"}]}}}}