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10:36:51","影片長度":"00:08:55","會議時間":"2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長就「農業移工政策改善措施」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月26日及6月27日兩天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-27","start_time":"2024-06-27T10:27:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-27T10:36:51+08:00","duration":535,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":509,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時28分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：再請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，我國經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會，到現在以科技產業供應鏈為支柱，尤其要提升國際競爭力，我們看到產業的轉型與民眾的觀念，以及少子化的危機，加重了農村地區人口老化及世代斷層，所以這些都是目前臺灣農村最真實的樣貌。經過農業部的統計，現在農民平均年齡也到達68歲，所以在2019年……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，不是，那是農保。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，農保。所以2019年引進農業移工，有這個需要嘛！從最早的800人到現在1萬2,000人，剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到，目前移工的申請到了8,500人，到年底就會到1萬2,000人，那你知道這個缺口還要有8,000人，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：那這8,000人的話，你知道要分配到哪裡嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：比如說，像農糧部分目前是4,000人，畜牧業的話是4,000人，還有外展人員是3,000人，養殖業800人，林業的200人，未來增加的8,000人，你有規劃、有去做市場調查嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們8,000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的。"],["呂委員玉玲：目前8,000人會怎麼分配？"],["陳部長駿季：大概還是會在農糧為主，然後有一部分是畜牧，還有一個很重要就是外展，因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動，未來這種缺工情形可能會靠外展。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以部長都瞭解問題，外展農務的話，最重要是怎麼支援，就是因為很多是季節性採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：你也特別提到，一般的收割期大概是從南部一直到北部，所以可以跨區支援做人力的調配，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：但是你有沒有發現一個問題？人力到這邊來的時候整個吃住的管理問題，所以目前申請外展人員都是用農會的外展農務，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以農會的申請，你知道實際上務實在申請的都是調配在哪裡使用嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，過往外展的部分都在當區，因為牽涉到交通跟住宿的問題，跨區的部分，我們現在開始有試辦，我們會去看試辦裡面他們真正需要協助的地方，特別是包括交通還有一部分的住宿，我舉個例子，像果樹……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你還是沒有去瞭解務實的問題，你有問到每一個農會他們在申請的人員，比如說大的農會，比如板橋或者臺北好了，大的農會人員很多，現在配比是50%、1比1，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：大農會人員當然多，它申請的人多，但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多，因為這樣的農會實際在做的業務就是存放款比較多嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：它是都會區的農會。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以以農村來講，它雖然是小農會，可能員額大概是20人、十幾個人，但是它的農地非常地大。所以在這邊要提醒部長，外展人員跟配比的問題，就需要依照農地的大小，讓大農地申請外展人員，而不是以農會的員額多少來申請，這樣的話就不夠務實了，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：分為兩個層次，第一個層次是核配比的部分，我們現在全國是一致性的，只是本籍跟外籍的部分核配比不一樣。剛才委員所提用農地的部分……"],["呂委員玉玲：意思是小農會，比如說……"],["陳部長駿季：現在還有合作社也可以，所以我們會針對那一區，如果農會人力不夠的時候，我們會協助他，用合作社的方式還可以去申請，所以我們會儘量朝這個來努力，因為農地……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你剛剛有提到一個問題，你說移工進來會有吃住的問題要管理，而農會沒辦法成立一個住宿的地方管理他們，所以人員還是會調配到外面去。所以在這部分，我們要看農地的大小，才是務實的作法，比如說小農地的農民，有1、2公頃的農地，他們倆夫妻的工作，但是在收割期需要大量的人力，就必須要有臨時工，這就必須要調配。所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團、1,500人的農務人力團，它需要的人力就必須要在當地，比如我們桃園就有青農，他就可以成立合作社，你補助他機械化的農機具，他可以來協助幫忙。","但是部長你有沒有瞭解到？農忙的時候大家都忙，都在搶人，比如我們桃園比較多是水稻，或是茶葉、或是有機蔬菜，忙的時候都一樣，有機蔬菜是每天在忙；可是茶葉是一次性的；水稻是一年兩次性、三次性，就是農民休閒的時間會有空檔在這邊，所以這樣的情形，他們要怎麼去管理外展人員？"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們才會提到外展可以跨區來支援，以桃園地區來講，很多像蔬菜類的部分，我們會加強它的農事服務的代耕系統，這樣人力就可以往別的地方走。"],["呂委員玉玲：我請部長你再務實去瞭解，跨區的支援還是不足，當地的、在地的支援會比較好。"],["陳部長駿季：對，當地的話，我想我們會更鼓勵合作社的部分，因為你成立合作社，還是可以去申請這個部分。剛才委員提到以農地為計算標準，我們會來思考……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們研議一下，用比例原則。"],["陳部長駿季：我們也會跟勞動部來討論，因為……"],["呂委員玉玲：比如說它的行員多，所以它申請得多，但是很多都沒有申請足額，為什麼？因為它沒有需要這麼多的耕作，這些農會實際的業務可能不是農耕，而是在銀行作業的部分。"],["陳部長駿季：這個我瞭解，但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則，這個已經超脫它的一致性原則，用本國跟……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以務實去瞭解實際的問題，來解決問題。"],["陳部長駿季：我們再研議，再跟勞動部來溝通。"],["呂委員玉玲：還有因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外、要曬太陽，而且也比較辛苦，所以移工失聯的也比較多，部長有沒有發現這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：大概是12.14%。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以要怎麼防範呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想要先去考慮，會逃逸的部分可能就是因為本身的適應性不夠，而且農業的這些特殊性部分……"],["呂委員玉玲：農業跟其他的工業不一樣嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：對。然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係，他都會跑往比較輕鬆的工作，在COVID-19的時候比較嚴重，現在已經比較回穩了。"],["呂委員玉玲：沒有，現在全臺灣的失聯移工、逃逸移工大概有7萬人。所以要再提醒部長的是，耕地比較小的農民如果沒辦法申請到移工，他們有可能就會用這些失聯移工，這些都是管理的問題，所以部長要深入去研究，研議怎麼去防範這些問題。"],["陳部長駿季：是，這個我們瞭解，我們會想辦法去解決這個問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來我想請問部長，因為台電有說未來對於農漁業的電費不補助了，那你們這邊有沒有要補助這個部分的電費？"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經納入農業部的預算，大概是19億。"],["呂委員玉玲：農漁業的電費補助大概是多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：19億、18.9億。"],["呂委員玉玲：它也是18.9億？"],["陳部長駿季：也是要錢啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：不是，因為我知道總共42億嘛，教育19億，農漁也占了19億喔？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我記得是18.9億。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那你會補足嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：一定要補足啊！我們已經編列預算了。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，那就不要把這個成本轉嫁到農民……"],["陳部長駿季：不會、不會，我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在農民的成本已經很高了啦，已經慢慢在衰退了，如果再負擔更多的成本，他們會受不了。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我跟委員報告，電價的六大項我們會去支撐，不會調漲，差額的部分是由農業部編列預算去補它。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你會編預算全額補足進去？"],["陳部長駿季：對，全額補足。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長駿季：不是全額免費喔！就是那個差額。"],["呂委員玉玲：你要補助這部分啦，就是19億的部分把它補進去，不會跟農民收取啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請陳超明委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-17","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","黃國昌","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 518.942, \"end\": 518.983, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 518.983, \"end\": 519.143, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 519.143, \"end\": 519.163, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"檔\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,756 --> 00:00:09,310\n來接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席請陳部長再請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,961 --> 00:00:39,495\n部長,我國的經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會到現在的以科技的產業供應鏈為支柱尤其要提升我們國際的競爭力我們看到產業的轉型跟民眾的觀念以及少子化的危機加重了我們農村地區的人口的老化跟世代的斷層\n\n3\n00:00:40,316 --> 00:00:40,496\n那是農保喔?\n\n4\n00:00:40,496 --> 00:00:40,837\n那是農保的?\n\n5\n00:00:57,176 --> 00:01:15,081\n所以現在2019年引進了這個農業的移工有這個需要吧從最早的800人到現在12000人剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到目前現在移工的申請到了8500人到年底就會到12000人那你知道這個缺口還要有8000人對不對那這8000人的話你知道要分配的到哪裡嗎\n\n6\n00:01:21,582 --> 00:01:27,485\n您說像我們農糧部分目前是4000續牧業的話是4000人還有我們的外產人員是3000人跟我們養殖業800跟林業的200那你未來增加的這8000人你有規劃你有去做市場調查嗎對我們那個8000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的目前8000人會怎麼分配對大概還是會在農糧為主然後有一部分是續牧\n\n7\n00:01:46,315 --> 00:02:14,997\n還有一個很重要的就是外展因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動那未來的這種缺工的情形可能會靠外展部長都了解了問題外展這個農務的話最重要是怎麼支援就是很多的因為是季節性的採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛對不對那你也特別提到說這一般的收割期大概從南部一直到北部所以可以跨區來支援做人力的調配對不對但是你有沒有發現一個問題\n\n8\n00:02:16,118 --> 00:02:17,298\n我跟委員說明,就是過往這個\n\n9\n00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:37,040\n委員會主席\n\n10\n00:03:03,488 --> 00:03:21,586\n現在大的農會比如說板橋好了或者台北好了他大的農會人員很多你現在配比是50%1比1對不對他的農會的話大農會人員當然多他申請的人多但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多因為他的農會實際在做的就是存放款的業務比較多嘛所以\n\n11\n00:03:22,927 --> 00:03:47,284\n在農村來講話他雖然是小農會可能他的行業裡面大概緣額大概20人10幾個人但是他的那個農地非常的大所以在這邊提醒部長就是你的外展人員跟你配比的問題你就需要依照農地的大小以大農地來申請這個外展人員而不是農會的大小的緣額來申請這樣子的話就不夠物質了是不是\n\n12\n00:03:48,064 --> 00:04:07,881\n我講分為兩個層次齁第一個層次是合配比的部分齁我們現在是全國一次性的只是合配比不一樣齁它的一個本級跟外級的部分那剛才委員所提的用農地的部分齁不是你說小農會對比如說巷份我們現在還有合作社也可以合作社所以我們會針對那一區那一區如果說農會如果\n\n13\n00:04:09,762 --> 00:04:17,428\n的人力的不夠的時候我們會協助他用合作的方式還可以去申請所以我們會盡量朝這個努力因為農地資會不大\n\n14\n00:04:25,894 --> 00:04:25,914\n﹚呂玲\n\n15\n00:04:44,608 --> 00:05:08,724\n他可能兩夫妻的工作但是他在收割期的話需要大量的人力就必須要有臨時工這就必須要調配所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團的人力1500人的這個農務的人力團的話他需要的人力就必須要在當地當地的話比如我們桃園的話就青農青農的話他就可以成立合作社你補助他這個機械化的農機具的話他可以來協助幫忙\n\n16\n00:05:12,346 --> 00:05:32,503\n但是部長你有沒有了解到農忙的時候大家都忙都在搶人比如我們桃園的話比較多的是水稻或者是我們茶葉或者是我們的有機蔬菜忙的時候都一樣有機蔬菜是每天在忙可是如果說茶葉一次性的水稻一年兩次性三次性就是把這個農民休閒的時間會空擋在這邊\n\n17\n00:05:36,624 --> 00:05:53,013\n所以這樣者情形的話他們要怎麼去管理外省人員呢?所以我才會我們才會提到這個那個外長可以跨區來支援那以桃園地區來講的話我們會加強因為很多像蔬菜類的部分有沒有我們會加強他的農事服務的代更系統\n\n18\n00:05:54,754 --> 00:06:16,353\n我還請部長你再務其了解,跨區的資源還是不足在當地的在地的資源會來得比較好?對,那當地的話我想我們會更鼓勵一些合作社的部分因為你成立合作社還是可以去請這樣的部分因為剛才委員提到用農地為計算標準去我們會來思考,但是我們也會跟勞動部來討論\n\n19\n00:06:19,736 --> 00:06:26,060\n對我了解我了解但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則啦那這個已經超多他的一致性原則用本國跟所以務實去了解實際的問題在研究以後跟勞動部來溝通\n\n20\n00:06:43,952 --> 00:06:54,679\n還有就是因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外曬太陽而且比較辛苦所以這移工失聯的也比較多部長有沒有發現這個問題?我們大概是12點14所以要怎麼防範呢?\n\n21\n00:07:00,923 --> 00:07:16,850\n我想要先去考慮說會去逃逸的部分可能就是因為你本身的適應性不夠而且農業的這些特殊性的部分農業跟其他的工業不一樣然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係他都會跑往比較輕鬆的在COVID-19的時候\n\n22\n00:07:18,351 --> 00:07:18,731\n接下來請問部長一下\n\n23\n00:07:45,902 --> 00:07:58,496\n因為台電有說未來他對於農漁業的這個電費已經不補助了那我們這邊有沒有要補助這個電費的補助我們已經納入我們農業部的預算大概19億你現在大概農漁業的話的電費補助大概多少錢19億18.9億他也是18.9億\n\n24\n00:08:06,057 --> 00:08:06,218\n我記得是18.9億\n\n25\n00:08:38,402 --> 00:08:39,163\n接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n756\t9310\t來接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席請陳部長再請陳部長\n17961\t39495\t部長,我國的經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會到現在的以科技的產業供應鏈為支柱尤其要提升我們國際的競爭力我們看到產業的轉型跟民眾的觀念以及少子化的危機加重了我們農村地區的人口的老化跟世代的斷層\n40316\t40496\t那是農保喔?\n40496\t40837\t那是農保的?\n57176\t75081\t所以現在2019年引進了這個農業的移工有這個需要吧從最早的800人到現在12000人剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到目前現在移工的申請到了8500人到年底就會到12000人那你知道這個缺口還要有8000人對不對那這8000人的話你知道要分配的到哪裡嗎\n81582\t87485\t您說像我們農糧部分目前是4000續牧業的話是4000人還有我們的外產人員是3000人跟我們養殖業800跟林業的200那你未來增加的這8000人你有規劃你有去做市場調查嗎對我們那個8000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的目前8000人會怎麼分配對大概還是會在農糧為主然後有一部分是續牧\n106315\t134997\t還有一個很重要的就是外展因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動那未來的這種缺工的情形可能會靠外展部長都了解了問題外展這個農務的話最重要是怎麼支援就是很多的因為是季節性的採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛對不對那你也特別提到說這一般的收割期大概從南部一直到北部所以可以跨區來支援做人力的調配對不對但是你有沒有發現一個問題\n136118\t137298\t我跟委員說明,就是過往這個\n156860\t157040\t委員會主席\n183488\t201586\t現在大的農會比如說板橋好了或者台北好了他大的農會人員很多你現在配比是50%1比1對不對他的農會的話大農會人員當然多他申請的人多但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多因為他的農會實際在做的就是存放款的業務比較多嘛所以\n202927\t227284\t在農村來講話他雖然是小農會可能他的行業裡面大概緣額大概20人10幾個人但是他的那個農地非常的大所以在這邊提醒部長就是你的外展人員跟你配比的問題你就需要依照農地的大小以大農地來申請這個外展人員而不是農會的大小的緣額來申請這樣子的話就不夠物質了是不是\n228064\t247881\t我講分為兩個層次齁第一個層次是合配比的部分齁我們現在是全國一次性的只是合配比不一樣齁它的一個本級跟外級的部分那剛才委員所提的用農地的部分齁不是你說小農會對比如說巷份我們現在還有合作社也可以合作社所以我們會針對那一區那一區如果說農會如果\n249762\t257428\t的人力的不夠的時候我們會協助他用合作的方式還可以去申請所以我們會盡量朝這個努力因為農地資會不大\n265894\t265914\t﹚呂玲\n284608\t308724\t他可能兩夫妻的工作但是他在收割期的話需要大量的人力就必須要有臨時工這就必須要調配所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團的人力1500人的這個農務的人力團的話他需要的人力就必須要在當地當地的話比如我們桃園的話就青農青農的話他就可以成立合作社你補助他這個機械化的農機具的話他可以來協助幫忙\n312346\t332503\t但是部長你有沒有了解到農忙的時候大家都忙都在搶人比如我們桃園的話比較多的是水稻或者是我們茶葉或者是我們的有機蔬菜忙的時候都一樣有機蔬菜是每天在忙可是如果說茶葉一次性的水稻一年兩次性三次性就是把這個農民休閒的時間會空擋在這邊\n336624\t353013\t所以這樣者情形的話他們要怎麼去管理外省人員呢?所以我才會我們才會提到這個那個外長可以跨區來支援那以桃園地區來講的話我們會加強因為很多像蔬菜類的部分有沒有我們會加強他的農事服務的代更系統\n354754\t376353\t我還請部長你再務其了解,跨區的資源還是不足在當地的在地的資源會來得比較好?對,那當地的話我想我們會更鼓勵一些合作社的部分因為你成立合作社還是可以去請這樣的部分因為剛才委員提到用農地為計算標準去我們會來思考,但是我們也會跟勞動部來討論\n379736\t386060\t對我了解我了解但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則啦那這個已經超多他的一致性原則用本國跟所以務實去了解實際的問題在研究以後跟勞動部來溝通\n403952\t414679\t還有就是因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外曬太陽而且比較辛苦所以這移工失聯的也比較多部長有沒有發現這個問題?我們大概是12點14所以要怎麼防範呢?\n420923\t436850\t我想要先去考慮說會去逃逸的部分可能就是因為你本身的適應性不夠而且農業的這些特殊性的部分農業跟其他的工業不一樣然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係他都會跑往比較輕鬆的在COVID-19的時候\n438351\t438731\t接下來請問部長一下\n465902\t478496\t因為台電有說未來他對於農漁業的這個電費已經不補助了那我們這邊有沒有要補助這個電費的補助我們已經納入我們農業部的預算大概19億你現在大概農漁業的話的電費補助大概多少錢19億18.9億他也是18.9億\n486057\t486218\t我記得是18.9億\n499770\t518302\t⋯⋯⋯\n518402\t519163\t接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔\n","txt":"來接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席請陳部長再請陳部長\n部長,我國的經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會到現在的以科技的產業供應鏈為支柱尤其要提升我們國際的競爭力我們看到產業的轉型跟民眾的觀念以及少子化的危機加重了我們農村地區的人口的老化跟世代的斷層\n那是農保喔?\n那是農保的?\n所以現在2019年引進了這個農業的移工有這個需要吧從最早的800人到現在12000人剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到目前現在移工的申請到了8500人到年底就會到12000人那你知道這個缺口還要有8000人對不對那這8000人的話你知道要分配的到哪裡嗎\n您說像我們農糧部分目前是4000續牧業的話是4000人還有我們的外產人員是3000人跟我們養殖業800跟林業的200那你未來增加的這8000人你有規劃你有去做市場調查嗎對我們那個8000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的目前8000人會怎麼分配對大概還是會在農糧為主然後有一部分是續牧\n還有一個很重要的就是外展因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動那未來的這種缺工的情形可能會靠外展部長都了解了問題外展這個農務的話最重要是怎麼支援就是很多的因為是季節性的採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛對不對那你也特別提到說這一般的收割期大概從南部一直到北部所以可以跨區來支援做人力的調配對不對但是你有沒有發現一個問題\n我跟委員說明,就是過往這個\n委員會主席\n現在大的農會比如說板橋好了或者台北好了他大的農會人員很多你現在配比是50%1比1對不對他的農會的話大農會人員當然多他申請的人多但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多因為他的農會實際在做的就是存放款的業務比較多嘛所以\n在農村來講話他雖然是小農會可能他的行業裡面大概緣額大概20人10幾個人但是他的那個農地非常的大所以在這邊提醒部長就是你的外展人員跟你配比的問題你就需要依照農地的大小以大農地來申請這個外展人員而不是農會的大小的緣額來申請這樣子的話就不夠物質了是不是\n我講分為兩個層次齁第一個層次是合配比的部分齁我們現在是全國一次性的只是合配比不一樣齁它的一個本級跟外級的部分那剛才委員所提的用農地的部分齁不是你說小農會對比如說巷份我們現在還有合作社也可以合作社所以我們會針對那一區那一區如果說農會如果\n的人力的不夠的時候我們會協助他用合作的方式還可以去申請所以我們會盡量朝這個努力因為農地資會不大\n﹚呂玲\n他可能兩夫妻的工作但是他在收割期的話需要大量的人力就必須要有臨時工這就必須要調配所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團的人力1500人的這個農務的人力團的話他需要的人力就必須要在當地當地的話比如我們桃園的話就青農青農的話他就可以成立合作社你補助他這個機械化的農機具的話他可以來協助幫忙\n但是部長你有沒有了解到農忙的時候大家都忙都在搶人比如我們桃園的話比較多的是水稻或者是我們茶葉或者是我們的有機蔬菜忙的時候都一樣有機蔬菜是每天在忙可是如果說茶葉一次性的水稻一年兩次性三次性就是把這個農民休閒的時間會空擋在這邊\n所以這樣者情形的話他們要怎麼去管理外省人員呢?所以我才會我們才會提到這個那個外長可以跨區來支援那以桃園地區來講的話我們會加強因為很多像蔬菜類的部分有沒有我們會加強他的農事服務的代更系統\n我還請部長你再務其了解,跨區的資源還是不足在當地的在地的資源會來得比較好?對,那當地的話我想我們會更鼓勵一些合作社的部分因為你成立合作社還是可以去請這樣的部分因為剛才委員提到用農地為計算標準去我們會來思考,但是我們也會跟勞動部來討論\n對我了解我了解但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則啦那這個已經超多他的一致性原則用本國跟所以務實去了解實際的問題在研究以後跟勞動部來溝通\n還有就是因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外曬太陽而且比較辛苦所以這移工失聯的也比較多部長有沒有發現這個問題?我們大概是12點14所以要怎麼防範呢?\n我想要先去考慮說會去逃逸的部分可能就是因為你本身的適應性不夠而且農業的這些特殊性的部分農業跟其他的工業不一樣然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係他都會跑往比較輕鬆的在COVID-19的時候\n接下來請問部長一下\n因為台電有說未來他對於農漁業的這個電費已經不補助了那我們這邊有沒有要補助這個電費的補助我們已經納入我們農業部的預算大概19億你現在大概農漁業的話的電費補助大概多少錢19億18.9億他也是18.9億\n我記得是18.9億\n⋯⋯⋯\n接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.756 --> 00:09.310\n來接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席請陳部長再請陳部長\n\n00:17.961 --> 00:39.495\n部長,我國的經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會到現在的以科技的產業供應鏈為支柱尤其要提升我們國際的競爭力我們看到產業的轉型跟民眾的觀念以及少子化的危機加重了我們農村地區的人口的老化跟世代的斷層\n\n00:40.316 --> 00:40.496\n那是農保喔?\n\n00:40.496 --> 00:40.837\n那是農保的?\n\n00:57.176 --> 01:15.081\n所以現在2019年引進了這個農業的移工有這個需要吧從最早的800人到現在12000人剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到目前現在移工的申請到了8500人到年底就會到12000人那你知道這個缺口還要有8000人對不對那這8000人的話你知道要分配的到哪裡嗎\n\n01:21.582 --> 01:27.485\n您說像我們農糧部分目前是4000續牧業的話是4000人還有我們的外產人員是3000人跟我們養殖業800跟林業的200那你未來增加的這8000人你有規劃你有去做市場調查嗎對我們那個8000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的目前8000人會怎麼分配對大概還是會在農糧為主然後有一部分是續牧\n\n01:46.315 --> 02:14.997\n還有一個很重要的就是外展因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動那未來的這種缺工的情形可能會靠外展部長都了解了問題外展這個農務的話最重要是怎麼支援就是很多的因為是季節性的採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛對不對那你也特別提到說這一般的收割期大概從南部一直到北部所以可以跨區來支援做人力的調配對不對但是你有沒有發現一個問題\n\n02:16.118 --> 02:17.298\n我跟委員說明,就是過往這個\n\n02:36.860 --> 02:37.040\n委員會主席\n\n03:03.488 --> 03:21.586\n現在大的農會比如說板橋好了或者台北好了他大的農會人員很多你現在配比是50%1比1對不對他的農會的話大農會人員當然多他申請的人多但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多因為他的農會實際在做的就是存放款的業務比較多嘛所以\n\n03:22.927 --> 03:47.284\n在農村來講話他雖然是小農會可能他的行業裡面大概緣額大概20人10幾個人但是他的那個農地非常的大所以在這邊提醒部長就是你的外展人員跟你配比的問題你就需要依照農地的大小以大農地來申請這個外展人員而不是農會的大小的緣額來申請這樣子的話就不夠物質了是不是\n\n03:48.064 --> 04:07.881\n我講分為兩個層次齁第一個層次是合配比的部分齁我們現在是全國一次性的只是合配比不一樣齁它的一個本級跟外級的部分那剛才委員所提的用農地的部分齁不是你說小農會對比如說巷份我們現在還有合作社也可以合作社所以我們會針對那一區那一區如果說農會如果\n\n04:09.762 --> 04:17.428\n的人力的不夠的時候我們會協助他用合作的方式還可以去申請所以我們會盡量朝這個努力因為農地資會不大\n\n04:25.894 --> 04:25.914\n﹚呂玲\n\n04:44.608 --> 05:08.724\n他可能兩夫妻的工作但是他在收割期的話需要大量的人力就必須要有臨時工這就必須要調配所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團的人力1500人的這個農務的人力團的話他需要的人力就必須要在當地當地的話比如我們桃園的話就青農青農的話他就可以成立合作社你補助他這個機械化的農機具的話他可以來協助幫忙\n\n05:12.346 --> 05:32.503\n但是部長你有沒有了解到農忙的時候大家都忙都在搶人比如我們桃園的話比較多的是水稻或者是我們茶葉或者是我們的有機蔬菜忙的時候都一樣有機蔬菜是每天在忙可是如果說茶葉一次性的水稻一年兩次性三次性就是把這個農民休閒的時間會空擋在這邊\n\n05:36.624 --> 05:53.013\n所以這樣者情形的話他們要怎麼去管理外省人員呢?所以我才會我們才會提到這個那個外長可以跨區來支援那以桃園地區來講的話我們會加強因為很多像蔬菜類的部分有沒有我們會加強他的農事服務的代更系統\n\n05:54.754 --> 06:16.353\n我還請部長你再務其了解,跨區的資源還是不足在當地的在地的資源會來得比較好?對,那當地的話我想我們會更鼓勵一些合作社的部分因為你成立合作社還是可以去請這樣的部分因為剛才委員提到用農地為計算標準去我們會來思考,但是我們也會跟勞動部來討論\n\n06:19.736 --> 06:26.060\n對我了解我了解但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則啦那這個已經超多他的一致性原則用本國跟所以務實去了解實際的問題在研究以後跟勞動部來溝通\n\n06:43.952 --> 06:54.679\n還有就是因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外曬太陽而且比較辛苦所以這移工失聯的也比較多部長有沒有發現這個問題?我們大概是12點14所以要怎麼防範呢?\n\n07:00.923 --> 07:16.850\n我想要先去考慮說會去逃逸的部分可能就是因為你本身的適應性不夠而且農業的這些特殊性的部分農業跟其他的工業不一樣然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係他都會跑往比較輕鬆的在COVID-19的時候\n\n07:18.351 --> 07:18.731\n接下來請問部長一下\n\n07:45.902 --> 07:58.496\n因為台電有說未來他對於農漁業的這個電費已經不補助了那我們這邊有沒有要補助這個電費的補助我們已經納入我們農業部的預算大概19億你現在大概農漁業的話的電費補助大概多少錢19億18.9億他也是18.9億\n\n08:06.057 --> 08:06.218\n我記得是18.9億\n\n08:38.402 --> 08:39.163\n接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.756,"end":9.31,"text":"來接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席請陳部長再請陳部長"},{"start":17.961,"end":39.495,"text":"部長,我國的經濟從農業社會一直轉型到工業社會到現在的以科技的產業供應鏈為支柱尤其要提升我們國際的競爭力我們看到產業的轉型跟民眾的觀念以及少子化的危機加重了我們農村地區的人口的老化跟世代的斷層"},{"start":40.316,"end":40.496,"text":"那是農保喔?"},{"start":40.496,"end":40.837,"text":"那是農保的?"},{"start":57.176,"end":75.081,"text":"所以現在2019年引進了這個農業的移工有這個需要吧從最早的800人到現在12000人剛剛部長在報告的時候也特別講到目前現在移工的申請到了8500人到年底就會到12000人那你知道這個缺口還要有8000人對不對那這8000人的話你知道要分配的到哪裡嗎"},{"start":81.582,"end":87.485,"text":"您說像我們農糧部分目前是4000續牧業的話是4000人還有我們的外產人員是3000人跟我們養殖業800跟林業的200那你未來增加的這8000人你有規劃你有去做市場調查嗎對我們那個8000人就是從市場調查裡面得到的目前8000人會怎麼分配對大概還是會在農糧為主然後有一部分是續牧"},{"start":106.315,"end":134.997,"text":"還有一個很重要的就是外展因為外展我們現在開放可以跨區移動那未來的這種缺工的情形可能會靠外展部長都了解了問題外展這個農務的話最重要是怎麼支援就是很多的因為是季節性的採收期的農忙需要的臨時工嘛對不對那你也特別提到說這一般的收割期大概從南部一直到北部所以可以跨區來支援做人力的調配對不對但是你有沒有發現一個問題"},{"start":136.118,"end":137.298,"text":"我跟委員說明,就是過往這個"},{"start":156.86,"end":157.04,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":183.488,"end":201.586,"text":"現在大的農會比如說板橋好了或者台北好了他大的農會人員很多你現在配比是50%1比1對不對他的農會的話大農會人員當然多他申請的人多但是實際上下去農耕的人卻不需要那麼多因為他的農會實際在做的就是存放款的業務比較多嘛所以"},{"start":202.927,"end":227.284,"text":"在農村來講話他雖然是小農會可能他的行業裡面大概緣額大概20人10幾個人但是他的那個農地非常的大所以在這邊提醒部長就是你的外展人員跟你配比的問題你就需要依照農地的大小以大農地來申請這個外展人員而不是農會的大小的緣額來申請這樣子的話就不夠物質了是不是"},{"start":228.064,"end":247.881,"text":"我講分為兩個層次齁第一個層次是合配比的部分齁我們現在是全國一次性的只是合配比不一樣齁它的一個本級跟外級的部分那剛才委員所提的用農地的部分齁不是你說小農會對比如說巷份我們現在還有合作社也可以合作社所以我們會針對那一區那一區如果說農會如果"},{"start":249.762,"end":257.428,"text":"的人力的不夠的時候我們會協助他用合作的方式還可以去申請所以我們會盡量朝這個努力因為農地資會不大"},{"start":265.894,"end":265.914,"text":"﹚呂玲"},{"start":284.608,"end":308.724,"text":"他可能兩夫妻的工作但是他在收割期的話需要大量的人力就必須要有臨時工這就必須要調配所以有的地方如果沒有像部長您所講的有46個團的人力1500人的這個農務的人力團的話他需要的人力就必須要在當地當地的話比如我們桃園的話就青農青農的話他就可以成立合作社你補助他這個機械化的農機具的話他可以來協助幫忙"},{"start":312.346,"end":332.503,"text":"但是部長你有沒有了解到農忙的時候大家都忙都在搶人比如我們桃園的話比較多的是水稻或者是我們茶葉或者是我們的有機蔬菜忙的時候都一樣有機蔬菜是每天在忙可是如果說茶葉一次性的水稻一年兩次性三次性就是把這個農民休閒的時間會空擋在這邊"},{"start":336.624,"end":353.013,"text":"所以這樣者情形的話他們要怎麼去管理外省人員呢?所以我才會我們才會提到這個那個外長可以跨區來支援那以桃園地區來講的話我們會加強因為很多像蔬菜類的部分有沒有我們會加強他的農事服務的代更系統"},{"start":354.754,"end":376.353,"text":"我還請部長你再務其了解,跨區的資源還是不足在當地的在地的資源會來得比較好?對,那當地的話我想我們會更鼓勵一些合作社的部分因為你成立合作社還是可以去請這樣的部分因為剛才委員提到用農地為計算標準去我們會來思考,但是我們也會跟勞動部來討論"},{"start":379.736,"end":386.06,"text":"對我了解我了解但是因為勞動部這邊對於核配比有一致性的原則啦那這個已經超多他的一致性原則用本國跟所以務實去了解實際的問題在研究以後跟勞動部來溝通"},{"start":403.952,"end":414.679,"text":"還有就是因為我們的農耕是比較曝曬在戶外曬太陽而且比較辛苦所以這移工失聯的也比較多部長有沒有發現這個問題?我們大概是12點14所以要怎麼防範呢?"},{"start":420.923,"end":436.85,"text":"我想要先去考慮說會去逃逸的部分可能就是因為你本身的適應性不夠而且農業的這些特殊性的部分農業跟其他的工業不一樣然後因為移工有互相聯絡的關係他都會跑往比較輕鬆的在COVID-19的時候"},{"start":438.351,"end":438.731,"text":"接下來請問部長一下"},{"start":465.902,"end":478.496,"text":"因為台電有說未來他對於農漁業的這個電費已經不補助了那我們這邊有沒有要補助這個電費的補助我們已經納入我們農業部的預算大概19億你現在大概農漁業的話的電費補助大概多少錢19億18.9億他也是18.9億"},{"start":486.057,"end":486.218,"text":"我記得是18.9億"},{"start":499.77,"end":518.302,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":518.402,"end":519.163,"text":"接下來我們請陳昌明委員請做巡檔"}]}}}}